How publishers pull YouTube viewers to shop on their sites, with Architectural Digest’s Amy Astley

Summary

Summary of "The Digiday Podcast" Episode: "How Publishers Pull YouTube Viewers to Shop on Their Sites, with Architectural Digest’s Amy Astley"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Digiday Podcast
• Host/Author: Digiday
• Description: A weekly show discussing the significant stories and issues impacting brands, agencies, and publishers as they navigate the digital landscape.
• Episode: How publishers pull YouTube viewers to shop on their sites, with Architectural Digest’s Amy Astley
• Release Date: February 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Digiday Podcast, hosts Kameka McCoy and Tim Peterson delve into the evolving strategies publishers are employing to convert YouTube viewers into shoppers on their websites. The episode features an insightful interview with Amy Astley, Global Editorial Director at Architectural Digest (AD), who shares AD's journey and innovations in integrating e-commerce with their digital content.

Hosts' Banter and Weekly Highlights [00:00 - 16:10]

The episode opens with light-hearted conversation between Kameka and Tim, touching upon recent pop culture events like the Grammys and sharing personal anecdotes. They segue into discussing the current "hellscape" of early 2025, highlighting significant industry events:

• Elon Musk's Legal Battles: Musk has been filing more lawsuits against advertisers, attempting to force them to spend on his platform, X (formerly Twitter), or face legal repercussions. Kameka remarks, "If you can't beat them, sue them," highlighting the aggressive tactics Musk employs to monetize his platform.

• Super Bowl Advertising Trends: The conversation covers the escalating costs of Super Bowl ad spots, with prices soaring to $8 million from $7 million the previous year. Notably, traditional big-name advertisers like Matthew McConaughey and Billy Crystal remain prominent, while other sectors like automotive brands and entertainment studios are less visible this year. Tim muses, “It's like we're in a hellscape.”

• AI Developments – Deep Seek vs. OpenAI: The hosts discuss the emergence of Deep Seek, an open-source alternative to ChatGPT, which has been gaining traction due to its cost-effectiveness despite criticisms about its reliability. They ponder the implications for existing AI giants like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude.

Interview with Amy Astley: Architectural Digest’s E-Commerce Strategy [16:10 - 43:41]

Introduction to Amy Astley [16:10 - 16:54]

Amy Astley joins the podcast to discuss Architectural Digest's (AD) foray into e-commerce. Since 2021, AD has been integrating commerce into their content, experiencing significant growth in revenue and expanding their ecommerce team.

Growth and Success of AD’s E-Commerce [16:54 - 22:35]

Amy outlines AD's journey:

• Initiation During COVID-19: The e-commerce experiment began in 2021 as a response to the pandemic, leading to a doubling of shopping revenue over two years. "It's been an enormous success for us," Amy states ([18:02]).

• Integration into Content: AD seamlessly integrated shopping into their offerings, particularly through their popular YouTube series "Open Door." This integration led to a fourfold increase in revenue from these videos, especially notable with the high-performing Sofia Vergara episode ([19:46]).

• Curation Strategy: AD employs a balanced "high-low" mix, offering both expensive items like antique pieces and affordable products like bedding. Amy emphasizes the importance of trust and quality curation: “People really trust Architectural Digest,” she notes ([19:14]).

Evolution of the Shopping Experience [22:35 - 29:59]

Previously, affiliate links were placed directly in YouTube descriptions, but AD shifted to directing viewers to their website for a richer shopping experience. Amy explains, “It's a much deeper, richer experience for the user to go to our site where we have Shop the Look from the Open Door” ([23:13]).

• Visual Enhancements: The website provides extensive visuals and detailed product information, enhancing user engagement compared to simple affiliate links.

• Minimalist Approach in Content: While some products include descriptive text to aid purchasing decisions, AD largely relies on high-quality photography to showcase items effectively. “We feel like the photography is speaking for itself a lot,” Amy comments ([27:28]).

Future Plans and Expansions [29:59 - 43:41]

Amy discusses AD’s strategic plans for continued growth in e-commerce:

• Expanding Categories: AD plans to delve deeper into travel and home scents, with specific launches slated for April. “We're working on moving into the scent home scent category, which isn't a place that we've ever played before,” she shares ([28:37]).

• Integration Across Platforms: Efforts are underway to integrate shopping more deeply into all content, including social media channels and potentially print via QR codes. Amy envisions a seamless shopping experience across all touchpoints: “It's really integrating it more deeply into our whole editorial process” ([31:03]).

• Team Expansion: The e-commerce team has grown to six members, encompassing producers, e-commerce writers, and strategic managers. Amy highlights the specialized skills required for effective commerce writing, including SEO and affiliate management ([34:01]).

Challenges and Adaptations [35:35 - 43:41]

The discussion touches on broader industry challenges, such as the impact of AI on search and discoverability:

• Search Engine Optimization (SEO): While AI overhauls by Google are altering the search landscape, AD remains focused on visual content that is less affected by text-based AI overviews. “The carousel view, the pictures, the visual aspect of it,” Amy notes ([38:35]).

• Emerging Platforms: Amy mentions that while platforms like Reddit haven’t been significant for AD's commerce, Pinterest remains valuable due to its visual nature. “Pinterest is good for AD,” she states ([37:49]).

• Seasonality in Commerce: AD experiences seasonal fluctuations, with peaks during events like Sleep Week, Q4 holidays, and specific shopping events. Amy references success with seasonal products like fake Christmas trees: “That's very seasonal. Absolutely” ([42:11]).

Key Insights and Takeaways

1. Seamless Integration of Commerce and Content:

   • AD’s success stems from integrating shopping opportunities directly within engaging content, particularly through their YouTube series.
   • Moving from external affiliate links to a dedicated shopping platform enhances user experience and increases revenue.

2. Trust and Curation are Paramount:

   • Leveraging AD’s established trust and editorial expertise ensures that recommended products resonate with the audience.
   • A balanced product mix caters to diverse consumer preferences, from high-end antiques to affordable bedding.

3. Cross-Platform Strategy:

   • Expanding e-commerce integration across social media and considering print enhancements like QR codes ensures a cohesive shopping journey.
   • Utilizing visual-centric platforms like Pinterest aligns well with AD’s content style.

4. Adaptability to Technological Changes:

   • While AI-driven search changes present challenges, AD focuses on strengths like visual content to maintain discoverability.
   • Monitoring and adapting to emerging platforms remains crucial for sustaining growth.

5. Team Specialization:

   • Building a dedicated e-commerce team with specialized skills in curation, writing, and SEO is essential for scaling commerce operations effectively.

6. Seasonality Management:

   • Capitalizing on seasonal trends and events drives periodic spikes in commerce revenue, contributing to overall business stability.

Conclusion

This episode of The Digiday Podcast offers a comprehensive look into how Architectural Digest successfully bridges the gap between digital content and e-commerce. Through strategic integration, trusted curation, and adaptive strategies, AD exemplifies how publishers can effectively monetize their digital audiences. Amy Astley’s insights provide a valuable roadmap for other publishers aiming to enhance their commerce capabilities in the digital age.

Notable Quotes:

• Amy Astley ([18:02]): “It's been an enormous success for us.”
• Amy Astley ([19:14]): “People really trust Architectural Digest.”
• Amy Astley ([23:13]): “It's a much deeper, richer experience for the user to go to our site where we have Shop the Look from the Open Door.”
• Amy Astley ([27:28]): “We feel like the photography is speaking for itself a lot.”
• Amy Astley ([31:03]): “It's really integrating it more deeply into our whole editorial process.”
• Amy Astley ([34:01]): “We need to understand the data.”
• Amy Astley ([37:49]): “Pinterest is good for AD.”
• Amy Astley ([38:35]): “The carousel view, the pictures, the visual aspect of it.”

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting the strategic initiatives and insights shared by Amy Astley regarding Architectural Digest’s successful integration of e-commerce with their digital content, particularly YouTube. The inclusion of notable quotes with timestamps provides depth and authenticity, making this summary valuable for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Amy Astley]

Foreign.

[Kameka McCoy]

Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of the Digiday podcast. I'm your co host, Kameka McCoy, senior marketing reporter here at Digiday.

[Tim Peterson]

And I'm Tim Peterson, executive editor of video and audio Digiday Media.

[Kameka McCoy]

Tim, welcome to the Hellscape that is the second month of 2025.

[Tim Peterson]

Just right into it. No, no warm up. Nothing. Just Hellscape off the bat. Kumiko coming in hot this year did.

[Kameka McCoy]

Not give us a warm up. There was no easing into this.

[Tim Peterson]

So with that, how was your weekend?

[Kameka McCoy]

It was all right. I. You know what's so crazy? I didn't watch the Grammys this weekend. I scrolled on social media and got my fill there. What about you?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I didn't watch it at all at some point. Confession time. I still use RSS feeds. That's how I stay up on my news. And so because I cover TV streaming and video, a lot of the Hollywood trades are in my RSS feeds. And so that was how I found out about. What was it? Chapel Roan winning Best new Artist. So I'm not a Grammys person. I also don't have to TV like traditional tv.

[Kameka McCoy]

So mostly here for the memes.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay. Are there any good ones?

[Kameka McCoy]

Beyonce was very surprised that she won country album for her country album. Lady was shocked. So that was a good one. Also, somebody probably should check on Drake. The entire audience while Kendrick was accepting his award saying not like us for a moment and it can't feel great.

[Tim Peterson]

So is he going to sue the Grammys now?

[Kameka McCoy]

Who's to say? There's only one thing left to do. Maybe that's it.

[Tim Peterson]

Although we will be talking about lawsuits in the opening section to this week's episode because some of the news of the past week has been Elon Musk filing more lawsuits against advertisers or adding more advertisers to lawsuits. Because you know, if you're not going to get advertisers to spend money on your platform, I guess a way to get money from them. Otherwise they just sue them for it.

[Kameka McCoy]

If you can't beat them, sue them. That is just one of our juicy, juicy scoops that we've got. We've also obviously going to be talking about super bowl that's coming up Deep Seek, which has shook the industry when it comes to AI and what AI capabilities are or what we knew AI capabilities to be. And then as we mentioned Musk and and his never ending fight with advertisers. But first, we've got a guest from Architectural Digest that you sat down with. So who are we talking with this week?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I spoke with Amy Astley, who's the global editorial director at Architectural Digest, and they are planning to relaunch their ad shopping property in March. So had her on to talk about just what Architectural Digest foray into commerce has been like a lot of other publishers, they started out in commerce in 2021, have been evolving that since then. And YouTube's played a really interesting part in this strategy and they made a shift last year in terms of how they drive affiliate Commerce from their YouTube videos like their Open Door series, which is pretty successful. So we get into all that in the interview. But first we got to get into this week's news. The news as 2025 has been been a fair amount of news the past week.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah, there has. On a lighter note, we've got the big game that's coming up in just a matter of days here where the Chiefs, my team, will be facing off with the Eagles.

[Tim Peterson]

Wait, you're not a Falcons fan?

[Kameka McCoy]

You know, I actually this is a secret between me, you and our many, many listeners. I was actually born in the Midwest.

[Tim Peterson]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Kameka McCoy]

I was, I was Kansas City, Missouri is my hometown. So that's, that's who we'll be rooting for is the, is the Kansas City Chiefs. Spots this year are going for. Well, some spots are going for $8 million, up from 7 million last year. I do wonder when we ever hit a ceiling there or just maybe one year down the road. We're talking about a $15 million spot. Who knows. And what we're seeing is that there's still a lot of dependence on really, really big names like Matthew McCon. Think for Uber Eats Hellman's has Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal to kind of recreate the When Harry Met Sally iconic moment. Who we're not seeing as car brands.

[Tim Peterson]

Right? Yeah. Yeah. You got a lot of auto brands. What is it? Ford, Audi, Honda, Hyundai, General Motors were in the super bowl before not doing so this year. Also Kia, BMW, Toyota, Volkswagen. It's kind of like who is left? Tesla. Just is Tesla going to run an ad in the Super Bowl? But yeah, and it's also I think it was Bloomberg had reported that a lot of you're not going to see as many movie trailers that a lot of entertainment brands are also kind of sitting out the super bowl this year. So that's interesting because that leaves opening for new types of marketers which has been in the trend in the past. You know, you've had I think like DDC brands advertising the Super Bowl. It seems like this year good time for AI companies to be advertising in the Super Bowl.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah, much to my dismay.

[Tim Peterson]

Maybe better than the crypto brands though.

[Kameka McCoy]

This is why we're in a hellscape. But yeah, I, I do expect that there, you know, I'm, you know, was reading some coverage this morning and there is the expectation that we will see a lot of AI companies, maybe some fara but pharma brand showing up there as well, who have usually been hesitant in the past. But they, they may show up, given there's some space here.

[Tim Peterson]

But right if, if they think they're not going to be able to spend on TV for that much longer, just blow the budget at this point on.

[Kameka McCoy]

Because what else are you going to do? Yeah, speaking of AI, I'm going to lean on you to give me the rundown with dc. My head is spinning with all of the talk Silicon Valley. It's like that spongebob meme where they're all trying to like rush through papers, burning things down. They're scared and freaking out, I feel like is what's happening with Deep seek right now versus OpenAI and some of the other AI players.

[Tim Peterson]

Spongebob memes just go straight over my head. I was too old for spongebob. So anytime people bring up spongebob. But I get the idea, yeah, Deep Seek. So I think what was it like two weeks ago at this point? Deep Seek seemed to really pop on people's radars. And then last week just dominated a lot of conversations. Like even I was at Interactive Advertising Bureau's annual leadership meeting in Palm Springs early last week. Deepseek was coming up in those conversations. And what it is is basically like ChatGPT but open source and made for a lot cheaper. Now, there are some questions or speculation that maybe Deepsea kind of trained itself on ChatGPT. In some respects, I'm that technical to know how exactly that would work. But it seems like there's been a fair amount of shade thrown from especially Silicon Valley investors towards Deep Seek on like, okay, Deep Seek. Not as much money needed to be invested in Deep Seek as has been invested in OpenAI to build up GPT. But is that because Deep Seek's kind of standing on the shoulders of ChatGPT and maybe other large language models? Some of that may just be Silicon Valley investors not wanting to seem like they wasted their money or, you know, overspent to invest in OpenAI or whatever other platforms. But it's, and it's not like Deep Seek is by any means perfect. There's been a number of stories in the past week about like to what extent it hallucinates or is just giving, you know, bad answers. But it's a lot cheaper. The technology was a lot cheaper to create and obviously has gained a lot of attention in the past week. And so it does put some pressure on whether it's ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, on down the list, all these big AI platforms, large language models to kind of prove that the money the companies are investing in them is going to be worth it long term or is there going to be a flattening because I don't know, like I use ChatGPT for like personal stuff and brainstorming and, and things like that. I don't really know what the major differences are between like ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, co pilot, like on down the list. Ko, what's been your experience with these large language models?

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah, I am in the same boat, to be completely honest with you. I couldn't tell you what the difference is. I actually wrote about like kind of how this is impacting search advertisements a little while ago, where now you've just kind of got like there's going to be a pressure to stand out from one another, to be able to take in ad dollars for those that do have ads and those will, will have ads even though they're not saying it right now. I know you will, but this to, to stand out from one another because I can't tell the difference. And if I can't tell the difference and you can't tell the difference, I would imagine there's a lot of other people that can't tell the difference, which would make marketing, you know, your wares a little bit more important this year because you gotta have to pay those investors back at some point.

[Tim Peterson]

Right? Which could be good for media companies and platforms. Especially if auto brands, the entertainment brands and others that we've talked about, not spending the super bowl, if that creates a hole in the market that folks on the sell side are going to need to fill. And our senior media reporter Sarah Guaglioni had been talking with publishers about what are the large language models that they're using and to what extent have they been able to distinguish whether they should be using Gemini or GPT or Claude or what have you. It seems like the answer that she got back, people can read more about this in her article on the site is that they're all just going with the large language models that tie into existing enterprise deals. If a media company is a Microsoft shop. They're using Microsoft Outlook teams and all that, then they're just using Copilot. If they have a content licensing deal with OpenAI that then they're using GPT. Um, and so it doesn't seem like there is that much differentiation. But I think Deepseek kind of shows like, well, probably there should be. Otherwise people are just gonna use whatever the easiest or cheapest one is.

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah, absolutely. It is the season of dupes and it seems like this is the perfect play for that. Okay, so our last juicy scoop here is about how Musk is essentially saying, you either advertise with me or I take you to court. What do you wanna do? That never that never ending play playbook that he's got some.

[Tim Peterson]

I'm gonna get your money either way.

[Kameka McCoy]

You'Re gonna pay me. Some, some have, have, have heeded the call. I know the, the Wall Street Journal has, has published an article that, you know, Bezos, Jeff Bezos of Amazon has cozied up a little bit and spending some more there. But the antitrust lawsuit has grown. What are you, what are you hearing?

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, so over the weekend, Lara O'Reilly at Business Insider published a story on Musk adding more advertisers to the antitrust suit. So this was the lawsuit that he had filed against the World Federation of Advertisers and a number of brands last summer. Now he's updated that complaint or filed a second amended complaint adding more advertisers to the list.

[Kameka McCoy]

You've got Nestle, Colgate, Lego, Pinterest, Tyson Food, Shell and Abbott Laboratories have now been added.

[Tim Peterson]

So a lot of big brands, a lot of big budgets with these brands too. So. And so we'll see what comes of that. Like again, it's. I think there was a brand, I believe it was Unilever, that had been originally named to the lawsuit and then started committed to spending on X late last year and has been dropped from the lawsuit. So it's, it seems like there is an opportunity to not have to go through this lawsuit if you're an advertiser, but then you have to go through spending on X at the same time. It does seem like to whatever extent there was a freeze around advertisers spending on X, that it is thawing A lot of. Yeah, advertisers are getting more active on X at least from an organic standpoint, I think post election, post Trump inauguration.

[Kameka McCoy]

So, yeah, I even think you'll see him show up for the Super Bowl. I talked to a couple of media buyers and social strategists about kind of the second screen strategy. Spoiler alert. There is no longer a second screen, but for X, there is a, you know, like you said, there's a thawing. There's a less apprehension to be there because even though, you know, for, for all of its problems, it is still kind of the town square where, you know, marketing conversations happen. So everything post inauguration, post Elon Musk and Trump cozying up, you know, it makes sense for some to be back on the platform. So expect to see them.

[Tim Peterson]

I mean, even to that point. Like over the weekend, there was a big NBA trade where the Lakers, my hometown team, acquired Luka Doncic from the Dallas Mavericks in exchange for Anthony dav. Ridiculous trade. Just ridiculous that the Mavericks are doing that. But it seemed like that broke and a lot of the reactions were Twitter posts. Like when I saw the articles on ESPN.com, they were all citing tweets that you had a bunch of NBA athletes, people like your Patrick Mahomes, reacting to the news. Those were X posts. Those weren't threads or blue sky posts.

[Kameka McCoy]

What is it called when you fall in love with your, with the person that's holding you hostage? There's a term for that.

[Tim Peterson]

Stockholm syndrome.

[Kameka McCoy]

That's what we're all suffering right now.

[Tim Peterson]

Wonderful.

[Kameka McCoy]

Anyways, those are her juicy scoops for the week. We'll see you back here same time next week with the same thing. But before we go, talk us to one more time who we've got on the show this week.

[Tim Peterson]

Yep, we've got Amy Astley, who's the global editorial director at Architectural Digest. And we talk all things commerce and publishers especially. We talk a lot about how AD has been using its YouTube videos to push commerce sales on its site and this relaunch of ad shopping property that they have planned coming up in about a month or so. So pretty interesting conversation.

[Kameka McCoy]

Can't wait to hear it. Thanks so much.

[Tim Peterson]

Thank Discover Digiday Streaming and Video Awards, formerly the Digiday Video and TV Awards, and its new categories including Best Interactive Video Experience, Best Sustainable Production Initiative and more. Recognize your team's hard work in modernizing streaming and video through your company campaigns and technology. Learn more about this program and discover more of this year's categories and past winning campaigns from PlayStation Range, Roku and [e-mail] DSVA Amy, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us.

[Amy Astley]

Hi, Tim. Thank you for having me.

[Tim Peterson]

Absolutely. I'm glad to have you because it's been a minute since I've really Dug into the state of the commerce business for publishers and you all have been fairly active on this front at Architectural Digest. Also sounds like you have some things in store for 2025 that could kind of help me wrap my head around. Okay, where's kind of the commerce business for media companies going this year? But maybe for those who haven't had the benefit like I have of researching Architectural Digest commerce footprint for this interview, could you kind of go over the scope of AD's commerce operation today for me, please?

[Amy Astley]

Yeah, Tim, we have been active in E commerce only since 2021. So it was really like a Covid era experiment for ad. Prior to that time we weren't participating in E commerce and it's just been an upward. It's just gone up for us since we started. It's always been a really kind of pleasant experiment or exercise. So we've actually doubled shopping revenue in the past two years. It's just been an enormous success for us and you know, a really bright spot for ad. I would attribute that to, you know, the quality of our team, our curation, how we select. Over the course of these years, we've integrated it much more deeply into all of our offerings. So it's, you know, very organic and the audience finds it sort of everywhere. And I think also the audience really trusts Architectural Digest. So we've benefited from that trust that we've had. It's a 100-year-old brand.

[Tim Peterson]

At what point you all have ad shopping, which is effectively your commerce destination on the website. When did that launch in this kind of now coming up on four year.

[Amy Astley]

Commerce business that you've had as far as the shopping destination on the site. That way it's, it's new and we just keep layering it out more deeply. I mean, you'll find like my picks on there and things under $300 to go under $300. But that is, that's a, you know, a new way for us to organize the content.

[Tim Peterson]

Like this year, new 2025?

[Amy Astley]

No, no, last year.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I was, you know, checking around on it and you have fixed like it seems like it's really oriented around AD editors or members of the ad team. Because I know the design director has picks, the digital editor has picks, you have picks. And then you also have pics from the celebrities who have been featured on Open Door, the YouTube series that you all are pretty well known for. But it seems like to be really grounded in people's picks is kind of like the orientation of it. Is that a fair characterization?

[Kameka McCoy]

Yeah.

[Amy Astley]

That's a fair characterization and something we're gonna actually go into More deeply in 20 is the Editor Picks.

[Tim Peterson]

So that just recently rolled out. What have you learned so far with it in terms of what's working, what's not working? These things are always evolving and I imagine in your position, you're always thinking about, okay, what can we do? How can we update this? What can we change? What are you thinking about? Maybe we start with what have you found has been working and maybe hasn't been working so far we found that.

[Amy Astley]

It'S worked really well to shop out the Open Door videos. You know, we found the audience really wants that when they watch Open Door. And I think we've had. We found sort of a 4%. Yeah, we found a 4%, a four time increase in revenue from the Open Door videos since we started doing them. Like we had a big hit with Sofia Vergara which had like 9 million views on YouTube. And so that revenue has increased a lot. And that really just shows me, you know, be where the audience is with the shopping content. Serve it to them in a, in a sort of organic way. They're watching that video, they want to shop Sophia's house. I also think that our high low mix has worked really well.

[Tim Peterson]

What's that mean?

[Amy Astley]

You know, it's our curation. It's the ad curation. Some things are expensive, some things are affordable.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, I think you had some things in your picks that were like in the tens of thousands of dollars. Like that's outside my.

[Amy Astley]

How much of that do you sell? But you'd be surprised. I mean, we've sold things from Cherish and first dibs, like an expensive one off antique and there's one of it and it's expensive. And obviously there's a good commission affiliated with an expensive item. We sell a lot of. We really succeed in the bedding category. Mattresses and pillows and sheets. You know, sheets, duvets, linens, bedding. People really, really trust us there. And of course there you have different price points too. You know, people may splurge or not. Obviously there are a lot of different prices for mattresses and sheets. But we just find that it's the mix of prices that works really well for us. But the Open Door video has been a successful place to start with the shopping. And you'd be surprised with the prices. I mean, it's sort of a something for everyone situation. I mean, we've also seen expensive Runway items like Bottega Veneta did these stuffed animal beanbag chairs. For their fashion show last season. And they were very expensive and we sold I think two of them. So people wore things from a Basque or Net a Porter. Expensive items they also sell, you know. So I guess what I've learned, you know, looking at and my shopping team is fantastic. My E Commerce team. I've learned just to keep an open mind and not say that only one thing works, you know, our audience. We're shopping Amazon and then we're shopping Net a Porter, you know, or cherish or first dibs, like I said. Or Airbnb. You know, we give them travel experiences too. So there's a big appetite for a little bit of everything, to be honest.

[Tim Peterson]

Right. And with the Open Door videos, I know one thing you all used to do is you would have the affiliate links for the products within the descriptions of the YouTube videos on YouTube. So like I'm watching the video, I go in the description and I click for the couch and it takes me to Amazon or whatever the retailer is. But it seems like sometime within the past year or two it switched where now you're having articles going up on ad site that has all of those affiliate links instead. So instead I go into the YouTube description to click on that link to go to AD.com for the full list. When was that change made and why was it made?

[Amy Astley]

It's just a better way to serve it. I'm gonna have to check the exact date that was made. Tim. I just don't want to give you an inaccurate date. But we did that because I think obviously having people shop while they're on the Open Door video, I mean that was just what technology. That was how we could serve it at the time. And it did work. People would click on the link and shop. But I think it's a much, a much deeper, richer experience for the user to go to our site where we have shop the look from the Open Door and it's more fully shopped out there and it's more visual. We can put photos of all the items with that.

[Tim Peterson]

You had mentioned the Forex increase in affiliate revenue from the Open door videos. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that was the stat is that for these Shop the Look posts compared to when you just had the affiliate links inside the YouTube description. Is that the.

[Amy Astley]

Yeah, we noticed that when we started putting the Shop the Look page on the site and put the links on the Open Door video too. But we saw, yes, a four time increase in the revenue from the Open Door from shopping it out on the site.

[Tim Peterson]

Got it. Okay. And one thing that almost surprised me is and granted I didn't watch every single Open Door video that there is. I wish I had that kind of time. But I did watch a handful. I don't remember there being any specific call outs into the videos of. And if you want to shop the look here, go down into the description or anything like that. Obviously you all don't have the host for the Open Door videos. Are the celebrities themselves. I don't know to what extent they would want to do that call out but I'm actually a little surprised like how well this is doing considering that it's not made super explicit to the viewer that they have the opportunity to shop the look.

[Amy Astley]

Yeah, they have to find that a little bit, you know. But people, I think part of the experience of watching Open door on, on YouTube is, is the comments. I mean people, they want to participate whether they leave a comment or they read other people's comments. I mean I, you know, YouTube is such a vibrant place for those comments. So I think people, it's the first thing after we publish the video, you know, you see it right away about the shopping. So I think people find it quite easily.

[Tim Peterson]

Right. It's generally like the pinned comment at the top of the comments feed.

[Amy Astley]

Yes, it's right up there, you know, so I think that they see it, you know, and then we're happy if they go over to the site and experience it there. It's a better shopping experience like I said. I mean we have tons of visuals there of way more product than just what they can see in the video.

[Tim Peterson]

Right. As opposed to like, you know, a few words of what the product is and then a link to a shortened link no less to Amazon or whatever retailer on the site. You get to see photo of the product, the price and then the name of the retailer with the link to click out to them.

[Amy Astley]

But it's, you know, it's a service for that, that viewer. It's, it's not going to be something that the, that the celebrity is participating in as you mentioned. It's, it's like an extra additional feature from, from ad. But it's been super successful and certainly none of them complain about it, you know.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay, there you go. And with ad shopping like the experience is pretty minimalist. Like it's, you know, primarily collection of photos of the products, their price points, the name of the retailer and then a link to the retailer. There's you know, two sentences at the top from whether it's you know, your picks or whoever's Picks are kind of describing their style or kind of a theme to the picks. And sometimes there's a little, you know, some text sprinkled in that maybe mentions or describes one of the products in there. But for the most part, you know, most of the picks, there isn't like a block of text saying, and this is why I picked this to be in there. Which surprised me, because I would have assumed that would have been in there to kind of move people along in deciding, okay, this is something I want to purchase, or, oh, this is why Amy picked this. Why not do that?

[Amy Astley]

You know what? We do a mix of it in our E. Com. There's definitely times where we're talking about, you know, look, we test everything. So if we've tested sofas or mattresses, there will be more text explaining why somebody liked this mattress or who sleeps best on this mattress. But we also cover a lot of decor items, a lot. You know, pillows and candles and kitchen objects and dinnerware. And it just. It looks kind of cluttered and people don't seem to need it or want it all the time. We feel like the photography is speaking for itself a lot. But definitely, wherever it makes sense from an editorial point of view, we will include it.

[Tim Peterson]

Got it. Any changes you have planned for ad shopping?

[Amy Astley]

We are definitely looking at expanding travel coverage. I think I mentioned that to you earlier. We're going to lean in more this year into more curation from the editors and the designers. So we'll tap into our AD100 designers, our AD Pro directory designers, and our own, you know, team here and really pump that up even more. We're working on moving into the scent Home scent category, which isn't a place that we've ever played before. And it's sort of wide open because nobody really seems to own the category. So I'm excited to move into scent in April, and I think it'll be beautiful and interesting, too, since people cannot smell the items, obviously we keep expanding.

[Tim Peterson]

How's that going to be incorporated?

[Amy Astley]

Yeah, I mean, so much of it is visual when you think about home scent, like, what does the candle look like? What does the diffuser look like? You know, sprays, that kind of thing. So a lot of it will be, you know, based on what the item looks like in the home. But we may have to add a little bit more text explaining the smell. I mean, I'm expecting that, but we launched that in April, and we're enhancing Sleep Week, Seat Week. These are successful franchises for us that we've been doing for years. We just keep, you know, growing. Growing the offering there and making it kind of bigger and bigger and better travel coverage I mentioned. And yeah, I'd say those are really the new things that we're looking at, you know, this year.

[Tim Peterson]

So any, like, big, you know, relaunch of Ad Shop, like, I know it just launched last year, but any big overhaul that you have planned?

[Amy Astley]

I think the main sort of overhaul that we look for this year is a lot more leaning into our staff picks, leaning more into the editors and to the designers, and integrating all the shopping content more fully across everything that we do. So you'll see it really popping on all the socials, obviously, on YouTube we've talked about more deeply on the website, even integrated a little bit into the print experience, you know, with pressing, you know, kind of pushing people from there into the shopping experience online.

[Tim Peterson]

Like with QR codes.

[Amy Astley]

We haven't talked about QR codes, but just making it more apparent to the print reader that they can go and shop everything online like we do. We do a very successful spread called Design Notes in the magazine, and it isn't formally linked to shopping right now, but we think that we can do that now. So that will be a more enhanced experience from print.

[Tim Peterson]

Got it. Okay. And when you talk about incorporating shopping more into the rest of the content that's on the website, like article pages, how would that. How would that shopping content or how would shopping get integrated into an article page? Like, is there a generally speaking example.

[Amy Astley]

You could say from a print article?

[Tim Peterson]

No, like just an article you had mentioned, integrating shopping more into the breadth of the website. I'm curious what exactly that would look like.

[Amy Astley]

We are currently really pushing it on the social channel so that people really see it and even in the Instagram stories. And we'll do even more of that and adding more shopping into any article that you see on the website. And there are so many articles. So, for example, if you're reading a profile of an Ad Directory member, you'll see a lot more shopping. You'll be pushed to the shopping there. You'll be guided to the shopping to experience it. It's really integrating it more deeply into our whole editorial process, making shopping not just one piece of ad, but, you know, not something discreet that is separate from everything else, but really rolling it into everything that we do.

[Tim Peterson]

Got it. Are there challenges with integrating shopping into the Instagram post? Because now we're talking about a separate platform. And historically platforms like Instagram, there have been limitations when it comes to links or what the specific Affiliates that can be included or how that all can get presented to audience members.

[Amy Astley]

We, we've, as I said, we've mainly experimented with it in the Instagram stories with the shopping, and we haven't run into resistance from, from readers or any particular, you know, issues with, with linking to it. I think it could be even more sophisticated than it currently is, actually.

[Tim Peterson]

How would you like that?

[Amy Astley]

You know, I mean, if the shopping experience, eventually, someday you didn't have to go off site would be. It would be incredible. You know, that would be sort of, sort of a dream. But I think that for us, the experiments have all been really, really successful. We haven't run into like grave, grave difficulty.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay, what about like YouTube has YouTube shop. And you all obviously have, I think, more than 7 million subscribers to your YouTube channel. So pretty successful presence on YouTube. Is that something you're planning to do.

[Amy Astley]

Anything with YouTube Shop? Yeah, we haven't. No, I haven't talked to the team about YouTube Shop or they haven't spoken to me about YouTube Shop at this time. I think I'm not opposed to it, but it hasn't really come up as part of our strategy yet. I mean, what's really working for us is to drive them back to our own website to shop.

[Tim Peterson]

Got it. Okay. And you had mentioned earlier having an E commerce team over there. What's the size of the E commerce team?

[Amy Astley]

We have six people on our team.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay. And has that like, grown significantly in the past year?

[Amy Astley]

It has grown a lot. I mean, in the beginning, in 21, when we started experimenting with commerce, we had like a half head that we shared somewhere else in the company. And, you know, it speaks to the success of the, of the shopping that the team has continued to grow. We're happily staffed at 6 now this year, which is bigger than last year. So it's, you know, it's based on when I mentioned to you that our revenues have doubled in the last two years. We've grown the team at the same time and they're real pros. They're just monitoring the landscape all the time.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah. What are the roles of these six team members?

[Amy Astley]

We have producers, we have E commerce writers. We have one sort of strategic person who really understands the whole lay of the land for ad. Those are. Yeah, those are the roles. Several writers. It's, you know, I don't want to say it's laborious, but it's a specific skill to be an E commerce writer. I really respect them for us. Ours have great taste. They're able to, you Know, their curation is excellent, their knowledge is excellent, they're good writers, they understand SEO. That's really important. You know, what are people looking for? Obviously they understand the affiliates, they understand the links. Well, obviously. I mean, they know what they're doing.

[Tim Peterson]

Yeah, no, I would imagine that would be kind of like on the job description, bullet point number one.

[Amy Astley]

Yeah, I mean, that's bullet number one. But not everybody knows how to do that. I mean, just because you have good taste or you can curate, you understand AD's taste, does not mean that you'll be a successful commerce writer. You do need those skills, and I think you need to understand the data.

[Tim Peterson]

And when it comes to the SEO, I feel like in the past if we were talking about SEO, it'd be well understood. We're talking about Google primarily, but it feels like in the past year, maybe two years, but especially last year, Reddit really popped on the scene more and more as a search engine, but especially when it comes to commerce. We had our publishing summit in September, last September in Key Biscayne, and there were some commerce publishers in there talking about like, what they were seeing with, you know, Reddit driving referral traffic. And there was even, you know, I think one or two who was talking about like they had seen a real big bump in affiliate referral traffic from Reddit, but then also pretty sharp decline in, I think, like August of last year. And so that being a new platform that commerce publishers are having to wrap their arms around, strategize and also adapt to. To what extent have you all like seen Reddit figure into the commerce business for ad?

[Amy Astley]

My team has not talked to me about Reddit.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay.

[Amy Astley]

I mean, I meet with my commerce team, they're embedded with us, I work with them closely daily, and I have a weekly update. So I really know what is selling and what's working for us. And we really haven't discussed Reddit, Tim. I mean, that may be working at other brands, but I think for ad with large digital audiences that we have on our website, on our social platforms, on YouTube and the magazine itself, and they're super, it's super visual. I just haven't seen that as a referral source for us. That doesn't mean it couldn't become one. And I'm definitely going to ask them in my weekly next week about it, but it hasn't really come up.

[Tim Peterson]

Have there been any platforms that have kind of emerged in the past six to 12 months? Like, we've talked about YouTube, we've talked about Instagram. Now we've talked about Reddit, any ones that have popped up.

[Amy Astley]

Pinterest is good for ad, you know, I mean, as you would expect, you'd expect to see ad popping on Pinterest boards because it's such a visual brand and it's actually, it's a good referral source. But also search is just good for us too. You know, people who are thinking about buying mattress or a new set of bed linens, they're going to Google it, they're going to see ad come up high in their search results and trust us. I, I think the trust in the brand is a really, I, I can't really overstate it. You know that when we suggest products, audiences tend to have a, you know, they trust us, the taste and just the sense of authority.

[Tim Peterson]

Right. And I feel like every publisher is having to reassess how they show up on search these days because Google adopting AI overviews and that being such a big part of search. We talked a little bit about Reddit, but then also you have whatever are effectively next gen search platforms in ChatGPT perplexity and on down the list, these AI platforms. But let's start with, you know, Google with AI overviews. Is that something where you all are having to adapt the commerce strategy in light of AI overviews becoming more and more part of the Google search experience?

[Amy Astley]

I mean, less for commerce, to be perfectly honest, for me, it's touching you more in the editorial area. Those overviews can really, you know, we understand the areas that they're going to be more harmful in certain kinds of service for sure. On the other hand, we do a really brisk business with home tours and AI overviews don't really impact home tours. You know, the carousel, the view, the pictures, the visual aspect of it. But it's definitely a factor in all the service journalism. And not in a good way, you know, but, you know, from a commerce point of view. We've talked a lot about trying to add more video into our commerce and we do some video with success. I mean, you know, audiences really like seeing someone just turning on and off a lamp, for example. And we definitely do it when we can. Obviously it adds to the production of the commerce, but it does differentiate. It is, it does work for the buyer, the audience, and it also kind of stops the AI overview in its tracks, you know.

[Tim Peterson]

Got it.

[Amy Astley]

Yeah.

[Tim Peterson]

And are you thinking about like how people may be on ChatGPT and asking for, hey, I'm in the market for couches, ChatGPT, like, what should I, you know, what couches Should I be looking at, like, how AD's picks could surface in that respect?

[Amy Astley]

Yeah, I mean, I hope that we're surfacing when people are asking, are asking AI. I think that we do service well in all Google searches. Whether we're able to get the AI overview to bring us up, you know, that's a whole other thing. But generally speaking, AD will do well in all kind of search roundups.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay. But it's not anything where you all are having to tag stories differently or write them differently in a way that they could make more sense to an LLM.

[Amy Astley]

No, no. The team has definitely not spoken to me about that and I haven't seen any evidence of that yet. It could happen, but not yet.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay. And then one thing I've been really interested in when it comes to publishers commerce businesses more broadly is to what extent these are seasonal. Businesses like BuzzFeed reported earnings. This was months ago. This was their Q3 earnings. But they reported an uptick in commerce revenue for Q3 and they really attributed that to Amazon Prime Day. The role these big shopping events are having in publishers businesses, things like back to school, as opposed to just the evergreen or I guess generic revenue. Is that something. Something you all see at ad?

[Amy Astley]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, absolutely. Seat week and Sleep week, we see bumps. Then we Definitely have a Q4 bump from holiday shopping and gifting. We even had, you know, we had a huge E Commerce win with fake Christmas trees. For two years in a row, we've had sort of one of the top stories around, you know, fake Christmas trees, which was both an editorial win and an E Commerce win. It was actually a top story at Conde Nast too, the trees. So that's. That's very seasonal. Absolutely.

[Tim Peterson]

Okay. Any temples like. Or newer temples that you're looking at this year as like, commerce booths?

[Amy Astley]

I hope that travel will be successful for us and I think that will be seasonal. I mean, we've had good luck with working with Airbnb in particular from a travel point of view, so. So I'm optimistic for that. And we'll see how the home scent does, you know, if that's going to be an area that we can kind of really grow. We've seat sleep, and I mean sleep. We're always selling mattresses and bedding. But Sleep week is a success for us and yeah, we'll just keep experimenting with those seasonal topics.

[Tim Peterson]

Got it. Awesome. Well, curious to hear how those experiments go. I'll leave it there for now. Amy, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Amy Astley]

My pleasure, Tim. Thank you for having me.

[Tim Peterson]

Thanks for listening to this episode of the JJ Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening. Get more from Digiday with our daily newsletter sent out each weekday morning. Visit digiday.comnewsletters to sign.