← The Digiday Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript87 lines
- [00:02]
A
Ready to shape the future of digital business? Then don't miss Demexico 2025, Europe's leading event for digital marketing and tech. On September 17th and 18th in Cologne, digital pioneers, innovators and decision makers come together to share ideas, network and shape the future of digital business. Expect top speakers like Carson Meschmeyer, Vanessa Schutzel and Sir Martin Sorrell across 10 summits. Get inspired. Be bold. Move forward. More@DMEXCO.com hello, hello and welcome to the Digiday Podcast, a show about the business of media and marketing. I'm Your host, Kamiko McCoy, senior marketing reporter here at Digiday.
- [00:58]
B
And I'm Tim Peterson, executive editor of video and audio at Digiday Media. Very grateful that Digitized Media's name is not my source for news, opinion and the world. How about you, Kimiko?
- [01:10]
A
You know, I spent the last couple of days feeling under the weather and now that you mentioned that, I, I too feel better that my name is not miss now as I'm. As I'm seeing it.
- [01:22]
B
I like that. For anyone who had much better things to do on Monday, August 18, and learn about MSNBC's new name, MSNBC has a new name. It is Ms. Now. It stands for my source for news, opinion and the world. Can we go? Do you know what the Ms. And MSNBC stands for?
- [01:47]
A
Originally, no, but I feel like this is about to be the bunnies on the trampoline conversation all over again where I didn't think something was what it was and then you're going to prove me wrong.
- [01:56]
B
So tell me So, I mean, NBC, obviously that refers to NBC. NBC News, NBCUniversal, the organization of which MSNBC has been a part up until Comcast decided to divvy it up and hand it over to Versant, which, I mean, we should have seen this coming given that, like its new parent company's name's Versant. Versant, the expectations for the new name were not going to be high. The Ms. In MSNBC stands for Microsoft because MSNBC originated as a partnership between Microsoft, which owns MSN and NBC.
- [02:33]
A
Holy hell, just what just shot across the sky. For those of you that can't see it, the more, you know, star.
- [02:43]
B
So for some reason the cable news network formerly known as MSNBC decided, okay, we can't hang on to NBC in our new name, but by God, we better keep the Ms. For some reason that is just, I don't know, I've never called it Ms. Or like it's always just been msnbc. Anytime I've used it or referred to it. I've never shorthanded it. So the idea of this Ms. Being so important is just. It's kind of baffling to me.
- [03:21]
A
Even more baffling is the new logo because they've also ditched the iconic peacock sign and now they've got what I can best describe as a logo reminiscent of First National Bank. That's blue, red, white and all over the place.
- [03:38]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, ChatGPT did an admirable job. We should stop dumping on Ms. Now. It's, it's its name. Does the job enough there. But yeah, I guess now we have to kind of update our rankings in terms of the worst new names of the year because I feel like this is given Howdy a run for its money.
- [04:03]
A
I was just about to say it's given Howdy a run for its money. But who knows, maybe we'll find ourselves down the same road as hbo where we had. If I could write an entire book on the names that HBO has had for its services. So, you know, we'll see.
- [04:18]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're planning for our summer wrap up episode in a couple of weeks. Maybe we do a segment kind of evaluating all the new company names or entities that have joined us this summer.
- [04:33]
A
I think that's a fantastic idea. Speaking of company names and entities, if perplexity has its way, it'll be having a new company soon, if not more. And then you've also got the trade desk, which finds itself in a buying. Later on, we're going to have a very special guest, Christy Argelon, who is the global head of advertising at Uber, talk about how she got her job. I'm super excited about this episode, but first we've got some, like I said, juicy scoops.
- [04:57]
B
Well, before we even get to that, like the conversation, because Christie's been around. Like, I first spoke with Christie when she was agency side and then she went to Target, built up its retail media business and then where'd she go after that? Was it Albertsons and then Uber?
- [05:13]
A
She was at Albertsons and then Uber. So she's got a really interesting career trajectory. Right. And one of the main questions that I wanted to get at is like, in the age of AI and programmatic media buying and things like this, like the jobs that she was able to build out for retail media at each of these, you know, Target and Albertsons and whatnot, can that same trajectory be recreated? She flat out told me no, but she told us why. People will have to keep listening to find out. Also, Uber approached her several different times for this job and she said no several different times, which she also explained. So it was a good conversation.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah. And I mean, plenty going on in the retail media space, including what's going on with Walmart and the trade desk, which is one of our juicy scoops. But first, let's talk about Perplexity wanting to buy Chrome. So ever since, what was it last year after the search antitrust trial with Google and the Department of Justice and the Department of Justice than saying, hey, we think Google's got to get rid of Chrome. Google can't hang on to Chrome because that's part of the antitrust thing. And so we're still waiting on the decision to be handed down on whether Google is going to have to divest Chrome or not. But Perplexity has been one of the companies saying, oh, we would like Chrome. In fact, let's bid for it. We'll put up $34.5 billion, just a cool $34.5 billion. Let us have Chrome.
- [06:40]
A
I have several things that are interesting to me here. Mostly what is the end goal of this, right? Because on the one hand perplexity is offering 34.5 billion, but the company is only worth 18 billion. So now you've got to tap investors and backers and things like this. Also, we haven't really been handed down details about if a decision, well, a decision has been made to sell off Chrome. There's been no for sale plan made here, right? So what does that all say about Perplexity being like, hey, now we'll buy this. It's not even for sale quite yet.
- [07:13]
B
Kamiko, you gotta spend money to make money. So Perplexity, we're gonna spend all the money. Perplexity is like someone who does those like buy now, pay later. Things of like, just let me have the thing, the money will be there. Just give me the, give me the thing first. We'll figure it out eventually. But yeah, I mean, Perplexity seems like it's trying to make some big move to jump into that next tier of these next generation of platforms. Earlier in the year when it seemed like TikTok may have to be sold off from ByteDance, Perplexity said, We'll take TikTok, not Perplexity saying, well, we'll take Chrome. I imagine a lot of this is because for as much as Perplexity is like a big platform, it's not quite in that tranche of OpenAI anthropic, let alone the big tech giants of Google and Amazon and Meta. So this seems, it seems like Perplexity is saying we're going to need to buy a big platform in order to become one of the big platforms, or at least that's going to speed up the cycle. Also, Perplexity last year launched its ad business. For an ad business, what you need is scale. Something like TikTok, something like Chrome is going to be a way to get that scale.
- [08:35]
A
And then they also just launched their own browser last month as well, Comet, which also kind of speaks to this need. And I like what you said about looking to buy up platforms to make themselves bigger. It seems like they've taken a page here or at least want to take a page out of Zuckerberg's book, where if you can't beat them, buy them.
- [08:54]
B
Exactly. And that very much seems to be the case, which I feel like that is kind of an argument in Perplexity's favor here. Because if you want to be promoting competition, you're going to want to create new competitors as opposed to Chrome just going off and being part of OpenAI or getting swallowed up by Meta. That's just like OpenAI is already in that tier. Perplexity isn't yet. But Perplexity could be if it owns something like a chrome or a TikTok. But this all assumes that Chrome is going to be divested from Google, which we still need to wait on this judge's ruling. And then we also have to figure out like what, how Google, if it's ordered to get rid of Chrome, is going to go about it. There was, I think it was Stratechry article I was reading about this that made the case of if Google had to sell Chrome for $34.5 billion to perplexity, that's a big tax hit that Google would have to take for a product that Google has. Like, there aren't that kind of cost associated, I think like what Ben Thompson referred to as, like there isn't an existing tax basis for Google. So in a way Google's going to short term kind of lose money here by selling Chrome. What it would be more financially responsible to do is spin it off into a separate company, maybe call it, you know, something that rivals versant. Howdy, Ms. now and then in a couple years sell it off. Because I, I guess there's some sort of requirement of if you're going to spin off a company, you have to like keep that a separate entity before it gets sold or acquired. Otherwise the spin off is just like that was never the Goal. So we're not going to, like, allow you to have the tax haven of that.
- [10:55]
A
Yeah. And then there's also, like, you know, I don't imagine Google would be, you know, chomping at the bits to sell off Chrome or anything like that. I envision some of this is going to be. A lot of this is going to be a legal showdown that's going to drag on for a while before the decision is even made to say, you know, final nail in the coffin. Yeah, we have no choice, we're going to sell it. Then you got the spin off. So we may very well be revisiting the same conversation in a couple of years.
- [11:20]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because especially if OpenAI and Perplexity are so keen on acquiring Chrome or getting into the browser space, there's also the browser company that has launched its DIA browser, which I think they're charging like $20 a month for. Kind of reinforces the idea, pretty valuable to have a browser. As if, you know, anyone who hasn't been tracking what has been going on with Chrome and with Apple and the Safari front, you know, known for years now of just like you own a browser, you kind of own the web.
- [11:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, that'll be, that'll be interesting to kind of see how this all shakes out and if Perplexity is able to really get a leg up, to really compete with, you know, I think ChatGPT at this point, OpenAI's ChatGPT has become like a verb in the same way of like, Google it, Venmo it, chatgpt it. If Perplexity can get there, they've cracked the case. But until then, you know, again, if you can't beat them by him.
- [12:14]
B
Speaking of if you can't beat them. Well, I don't know if this, if that's like a great segue to it. The segue I'm trying to make is the trade desk just having a tough, tough summer.
- [12:25]
A
Anybody right now?
- [12:27]
B
No, they. They've had a summer to forget. It feels like.
- [12:34]
A
I was going to make the summer I turned pretty joke. I'm not fast enough on my feet. The summer I had a tough quarter is the best that I can do.
- [12:41]
B
The summer things got ug.
- [12:45]
A
But they're getting hit on, on all sides here. Right. So stock took a hit, revenue took a hit. And then they've also, I mean, we've heard from our programmatic marketing summits and whatnot that people have not been impressed with Coke I, which is their ad buying tool. And then on top of that, the information recently reported that they lost exclusivity with Walmart as their DSP partner. So you're really fighting for your life here at this moment.
- [13:12]
B
Yeah, because I mean, as we been hearing, and Ronan Shields, our ad tech senior ad tech reporter has been reporting alongside Seb Joseph, our executive editor of News. Amazon is really coming at the Trade desk hard. Google's Display and Video360DV360 has been the predominant DSP in the space. But it's kind of a three horse race between Google DV360 the Trade Desk and then Amazon's DSP, the Trade Desk. What's helped the Trade Desk is it's been independent, whereas the other two are owned by these big platforms. But Amazon's been acquiring more and more inventory. One thing I was hearing around the time of upfronts back in May is Amazon's offering a lot of discounts and sweeteners for people to be buying third party CTV inventory through Amazon's dsp. And that was really encroaching on one of the big growth businesses for the Trade Desk, which has been ctv. So because of all these different moves, it's really called into question how much of a hold on its position does the Trade Desk have? And one of the things that would have reinforced trade Desk position is like, well, we got the Walmart relationship. If you want to use Walmart shopper data for programmatic ad buying, you come to us.
- [14:34]
A
And now that has been taken off the table. Now I will say the Trade desk caught wind of this and immediately hit back and they said we actually have a fantastic, I mean as all, you know, good PR moves happen, they, they came out and said that we've still got the partnership with Walmart intact. It's the exclusivity that has been lost. So to me I'm interpreting that as now, you know, Walmart is not exclusive. You don't have to go through the trade desk to get, you know, programmatic media buying across Walmart, empowered media buying across different platforms. Now I don't think that you know, Walmart will then go to Amazon and be like, hey guys, what's up? You never. Nonetheless, this is true. I can't say who, who in this world, who's to say this economy, in this economy, who is to say. But yeah, that's what it leaves the Trade desk open to.
- [15:27]
B
Yeah, especially if Walmart without, you know, now having the non exclusive rigment of the Trade desk were to go to Google. Yeah, because that's, that's really the thing here. Is with these ad tech tools, with these DSPs, one of the things you need is a differentiator. Google's big differentiator with DB360 is it has access to Google inventory. It's the only DSP that has access to YouTube inventory. Amazon same, you know, respect. Similar respect. It has access to prime video, but it has access to Amazon shopper data. Trade desk, you know, it was really. It seemed like it would have been. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it didn't lead to all that much spending going through the trade desk to have the Walmart shopper data. I would think it would have been valuable, but I haven't.
- [16:22]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [16:24]
B
But now without it, it's just kind of like what's the trades argument to buyers on why they should be diverting dollars towards its DSP as opposed to Google's or Amazon's? Is it just that it's independent, which there's plenty to be said for that. There's also plenty that's been said about the lack of customer service. Agency executives feel like that they're getting from Google and from Amazon. But Trade Desk, there's also, you know, criticisms that have been handed out as, you know, towards the trade desk, as you and I have both heard from our town halls.
- [17:00]
A
Yeah. Didn't somebody call them the spirit airlines of DSPs at one point?
- [17:04]
B
Yeah, the Spirit Airlines of ad tech. There's that. And then they have this Coke I platform which is supposed to make programmatic buying, I guess enjoyable or at least easy. But we had the virtual town hall with programmatic agency execs back in June. There was not a lot of compliments paid towards Coke.
- [17:33]
A
There were a lot of complaints, I think didn't. Besides the trade that's being called Spirit Airlines, somebody also said that they joke about it gives like them PTSD and whatnot. It's been two years, so it's curious how long it takes to really find your footing there.
- [17:50]
B
Yeah. That said, I mean Trade Desk CEO Jeff Green has said that three quarters of the company's clients are using Coke I company expects all of its clients to be using COCAI by the end of this year. So it is getting adoption. It just sounds like as people start using it, they're not really enjoying using it. So you wonder like how long that adoption will hold on, especially if there's less urgency to be using the trade desks. But you know, as with everything else, maybe this spurs the trade desk to do some sort of deal. This could be a trigger point in a way.
- [18:31]
A
Yeah. I think that would be interesting. You've put, you know, they found themselves in an interesting predicament where they've got to kind of find a new narrative here as to like what, what's going to bolster them as a, as a dsp.
- [18:42]
B
So yeah, maybe they do a deal with like Uber for Uber's, you know, customer data.
- [18:48]
A
That's something. If I had known that we were going to have this conversation, I would have asked Christy when we had the conversation. But it was a really interesting conversation that I had with Christy. As a reminder here when we brought her on the show, one of the things that I wanted to know is again, can you recreate your job path? Right. Given that we've moved from the old days of like in store shopper marketing signs as retail media to now like this digitized programmatic media buying and then also like it branched out to CTV and social media like can your trajectory be recreated for as fast as retail media is growing? So it was a really interesting conversation to have with her to see what steps she took in her career, what missteps she took in her career and how that got her to where she's at now.
- [19:31]
B
Yeah, she seems someone like, who has a really unique and broad perspective of the retail media space as being one of the pioneers of the space.
- [19:40]
A
Yeah, we've referred to her, it was us in Ad Exchanger, I think that referred to her as the fairy godmother of retail media. So glad to have her on the show.
- [19:56]
C
Foreign.
- [20:00]
A
Thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. I'm super excited to talk to you. You've, you've got a couple of titles. In addition to global head of advertising at Uber, you've also been dubbed the godmother of retail media by Ad Exchanger and now also by us and also retail media maven at Marketing dive. So talk to me a little bit about what's your reaction to that?
- [20:23]
C
I mean I, I'm, I'm flattered to, to carry such fun titles. It's. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not really sure what my reaction is to it other than, you know, thank you to, you know, the industry for recognizing the work that I'm doing. But you know, this is a, it takes a village to build these businesses. And so it's a representation of some really talented leaders and team members that I've had the pleasure to work with over time, all like minded people trying to crack the same industry challenges and opportunities. And so, you know, maybe I can share it back out with the people that I've, that, you know, I've been honored to work with along the way.
- [21:08]
A
You know, let's zoom out, right? You've earned the title, I would imagine, because of some of the, the heavy hitting that you've been doing in the industry. Not only, you know, now you're, you're a couple months, maybe out, eight months into your role at Uber, but you've got some time at Target and Albertsons and other things like that, hence the title of the godmother and retail media maven. Give me a quick overview of your career here. Because the retail media space, you know, even in my own reporting, it's gotten big and it's kind of the wild, wild west right now. So you've set some precedent. So give us a kind of high level look at how you got here.
- [21:41]
C
Yeah, I grew up in the ad industry and have always been a media person at the beginning at many creative agencies. And I've always understood the power of media and the importance of media, especially in terms of really resonating with consumers and driving actions and outcomes that drive businesses, but also that drive brands and emotional connections with all of us as consumers. As we started to see the significant growth of digital marketing, the influence of mobile and all of the other forms of data and technology that have really evolved advertising, there just seemed to be continue to be opportunities for other alternatives, for alternatives in the marketplace that just didn't exist at the time. And I was at Target at the time that this idea of retail media really started to emerge because retailers were sitting on top of all of this first party data that were starting to inform their marketing decisions. And you could easily see me as a, as a media professional, I could easily see the opportunity that this could actually represent in the marketplace. And so, you know, at Target at the time, I was actually overseeing media measurement, social guest engagement, so really driving the media practice at Target. And then as this opportunity for retail media and bringing our data and a different advertising to market started to emerge, I was asked to kind of take what was Target Media Network at the time and turn it into the media business for Target did it with the intention of bringing the same benefit that Target was realizing on first party data applied to advertising decisions to bring that to the market so the broader market could participate in that as well. And it's just a nice complement to walled gardens and the fact that walled gardens aren't the only source for really good data. In fact, you can make the case that first party data from Retailers is much higher fidelity and drives really meaningful growth and business outcomes for brands.
- [24:07]
A
I think it's really interesting and I'm curious, when you mentioned that you got asked to help build this kind of out at, at Target, was this a role that you kind of had to like put together yourself or did you step into something that kind of already existed?
- [24:21]
C
I stepped into something that already existed and it was interesting because the web team, the digital sales channel team, had already kind of, they had engaged a couple of consultants to kind of go, hey, is there an ads business or something we could do with the data here? So it was organically happening. And so it just was a lucky coincidence, I guess that, you know, the, the two parties, the two different areas in the company, you know, came together and really understood how to bring these things together and bring it to market. So if you were a digital native, you understood the importance of what was happening. And I credit to some really innovative thinkers who were at Target at the time who were also recognizing that there was an opportunity that was emerging that the marketplace would need also. Let's not forget it's another revenue stream and a significant one for retailers. So that's part of it as well. Especially in a digital business, in a traditional retailer where the margins are just razor thin, you really do have to think about what are all of the other alternative growth levers that you have in advertising. Was a natural answer.
- [25:38]
A
Absolutely. So you go from Target and your next big jump is Albertsons, where you spent a little over three, well, three and a half years. Right. And one of the things that you and I talked about in this role is like measurement becomes a big thing because there's now starting to be pressure on retail media networks to offer that return on investment that marketers can see as more tangible. So talk to me a little bit about coming into the role at Albertsons and kind of what you carried from Target with you into that new role.
- [26:03]
C
Yeah, the Albertsons challenge was a fun one because they had been outsourcing it to an agency, their retail media business and they were collecting a nice rev share from that which carried a low cost center attached to it as well. But they really understood that to be compelled, competitive, especially with their set like Walmart, Target, Kroger name, the, you know, kind of that small competitive set. They understood that they needed to have these alternative revenue streams as well and that they had every right to serve their customers better while bringing an advertising business to market. So they brought me on board to in house the retail media business. And then you know, bring it back out to market and turn it into another growth lever for them. But what's happening at the same time is that not only is retail media being negotiated through joint business plans that include, you know, the trade deals and all of the other aspects of retail media, but now we're actually securing a sizable chunk of brand budgets and performance budgets on beyond Shopper dollars. And in order to play in that arena, you have to have measurement that stands up to that. And so measurement is a wildly hot topic, continues to be for retail media. And I think the retail media in general has gotten really good at channel by channel or placement by placement, providing good measurement. The challenge continues to be how do you do it across channel? And more importantly, if you're a PepsiCo or a Procter and Gamble, how do you import retail media performance into the broader marketing mix, modeling and measurement that you're doing? So you can see how that investment is standing up to some of the more traditional channels or even the emerging channels that also are securing a significant investment from those same brands.
- [28:11]
A
So you had your work cut out for you at Albertsons, but we make the jump to replace a Mark Grether, who was Uber as former VP and general manager. Right. To step into this role last December. So talk to me a little bit about, you know, what's the challenge here? What's the tackle here at Uber?
- [28:28]
C
Yeah, I mean, it's super fun. And I, you know, if I were to look back on my, on my profile and what really motivates me, I would say that I am, I'd say I'd like to step into what I'll call as transformational roles. But it really is, you know, there's always a group of people, especially for big traditional companies that will kind of pass through and lead the change that, you know, we're being asked to lead at the time. And, you know, and I've always thought in my mind I, there are jobs that I'll attack that, you know, that I'm, I'm not going to pick a company and be a lifer there. It's more of a what's the challenge at hand? And the, the thing not to fix, but to bring to the company as they prepare for that next big tranche of growth. And so, you know, did a lot of that at Target, did that at Albertsons. And Uber is almost like the mirror image of kind of the work to be done. And so it is a fast moving, innovative company which feeds my soul really well, constantly changing, really good pace. And at the same Time looking for infrastructure to round out a business that also very organically grew out of the core premise of what Uber is about. And then how do you bring in the measurement and the operating systems so that the next big tranche of growth is, is as fluid and easy as the first tranche? And how do you diversify your ad placements and how do you think about off platform proposition? And so it's just, it's my kind of challenge and I have so many experiences that I've gathered. Being a media professional in a creative environment and a media agency and on the client side and building retail media, it's just a nice place to apply the accumulation of experiences that I've had.
- [30:29]
A
I like what you said about going into a job not as a lifer, but to take on a challenge. Right. Which makes me curious of like you. You were with Target for more than four years and then Albertson's more than three years. So kind of like walk me through, like how do you know when it's time to make a career job? How do you know when it's time to leave? What signals are you looking for?
- [30:52]
C
It's funny because I just had this conversation with this very, I'll call it very spiritually centered person and I think we both agreed that not really looking, but the universe comes in and says yoo hoo, there's a little something over here that you might want to take a look at. And you know, I Albertsons was a great place to work, Target, great place to work. But then these opportunities come up to what I would say is to take my growth curve and start to like put it more of a straight line up. And you know, the proposition at Uber, especially given how Uber has changed our lives and to come into a company like this and to think about how what does advertising mean when Uber brings advertising to market? It's just a, an advanced flavor of what I've been doing in the retail media space. And you know, first I was like, yeah, you know, I'm good where I am. That Albertsons job was great. The team was amazing. The company very leaned into the business, you know, really great person, has taken my role there. Now I will always be a fan and watching what's going on there. But the Uber challenge was just something that isn't going to come up all the time and suits me and what motivates me personally in you know, very specific ways. So it was just one of those, I wasn't looking for it, I didn't even necessarily imagine it for myself but it Came my way and I said no three, three or four times. And then I'm like, okay, I'll talk. And, you know, I just. I kept getting lured in further and further, pulled in further and further, and. And here I am.
- [32:39]
A
Oh, my goodness. What was the, the, the final thing that I was like, okay, yeah, I, I think I'm ready for a new challenge. I think, I think I want to go with Uber.
- [32:48]
C
I think for me, it's almost the 180. So when you go into big companies, what you will find is, again, like I had said, there's kind of a. There's a sense of urgency, but there's also like a more of a transformation group versus in a state of transformation. And I really think that Uber is just in this constant state of transformation and change and growth, and I love the energy to that. And I think that's probably what pulled me in. And then when I also really thought about how is Uber changing our lives? That's pretty cool, right? I mean, do you ever stand on a curb now in the rain and try to find a taxi or, you know, I don't have to wait until the next day to get something. I can get it in a half hour. Like, that's pretty exciting. And all of the new services that they're bringing out in autonomous vehicles, and it just, they. We continue to innovate in the space of how you go and how you get things. And I'm. I find that. I frankly just find that irresistible in my brain as I think about all the application of that to the ad.
- [34:01]
A
Industry as you make these jumps. And they seem like partly strategic, but also partly not whimsical, but there's another word for it.
- [34:09]
C
Opportunistic.
- [34:10]
A
Yeah, there it is. I, I want to ask, was there ever a moment that you, like, you maybe stayed too long, right? Or kind of, what's the risk versus reward in making these career jumps?
- [34:22]
C
Yeah, I think that's a really great question, because I would say there probably have been times where I thought maybe I stayed a few months too long, or other times where I'm like, whoa, thank God I left when I did. You know, so you kind of. In hindsight, you can always look back and go, you know, is timing ever perfect? No, because life is imperfect. But, you know, there was something that Steve Jobs had actually said that I always think about, and his comment was, if you stay, and I'll chop it up and not say it as eloquently as he ever would, but if you're having a tough Month, like suck it up. You're gonna have tough months. But if you have a tough six months, then you should probably be thinking about what you're doing next. And so I kind of use that as my temperature stick, whatever to really understand, like, where am I in this job? Because there's no doubt we all have a week where we're like stress eating or not sleeping at 3:30 in the morning and you're rolodexing the list of things you could have done better. But then you have all of these great days where you're like, that was like, we really accomplished something great. I just found this amazing team, you know, in another country that is just going to be, be a big unlock for this business. So I'm, you know, I always am kind of thinking, was it a bad week, a bad month or a bad six months? And that's the way that I gauge how I'm doing and whether or not I am staying too long or, you know, am doing good.
- [35:56]
A
I won't ask you to say the name, but I am curious in the moments where you did think that, yeah, I've stayed too long here, what were some of those indicators? Whether it was like, there's a lot of red tape being thrown up here, those type of things.
- [36:10]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly it. Like, no, no, no, no, not today, no. Or you get yes. But then when you go to follow up on it, it's no, but they didn't say it. So it is a. And I'm, I'm, I get bored. I have a joke with my family. I would come home and I'm like, I'm bored. And they're like, oh crap, where are we moving to? There are plenty of people who can ride the yeses and the no's and the enabling and the blocking. But if the blocking is going on for too long, to me that's a real signal.
- [36:47]
A
Yeah.
- [36:48]
C
That what I value and what's important to me is no longer aligned with what's important to the company and that there is nothing wrong with that. It's just a change in what the company needs to do versus what I need to do.
- [37:02]
A
Yeah.
- [37:03]
C
And so I've, I have run into those moments where the no's go or the blockers go a little bit longer than I allow myself to see because I can be pretty optimistic. And you know, those are, those are the times where it just, it doesn't go well. Right. I'm starting to get a little more shrill. And the meetings, I'm a Little more pointed and how I'm saying things, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm not my best self right now. I got. I gotta figure out what's going on here.
- [37:32]
A
I gotta exit stage left.
- [37:36]
C
Exactly.
- [37:37]
A
Not for nothing, you know, there are obviously changes within your own career, but I think there's also been some, like, really big, revolutionary changes that have happened within retail media. It's itself, like, on the one hand, like, I think we've talked about this before. I've had this discussion so many times about how, like, shopper marketing has, in trade, dollars have like, digitized itself, making the retail media business what it is today. Right? And there's consolidation, new players in the space. So talk to me, like, in that digital revolution, like, how did that impact not only, like, how you did your job, but, like, how you made your career choices?
- [38:11]
C
There's a part of me that I just get anxious if I feel like something is happening that I don't understand. And so I will school myself and I'll. Obviously, you know, in this business, you have access to all of these amazing thinkers and brains. So I'll read what they're saying or I'll make sure I have a meeting with them, or, you know, I find people who inspire my thinking and stretch my thinking, who have a lot of imagination. Um, and I use that to just keep in touch with what's going on, you know, and in this. I had kind of an AI moment this morning. I'm like, is everybody just like, is AI just trolling their Slack channel right now and it's just turning all of their chats into a PowerPoint presentation? You know, so I do like a reality check of is it that elegant yet? And, you know, and so I'll pop up every once in a while and. And just validate what is really, what is new technology capable of today versus where is this going? And then how, as a individual, a team, as a business, do we participate in what's happening now so that we're prepared for where it's going? And so it's just a. I get bored easily and I have a curiosity to what's going on. And, you know, things are accelerating an enormously fast pace now. I mean, you saw how CTV took over the world, media took over the world, how AI is flipping our worlds upside down almost instantaneously. So the pace at which these new things are coming is the thing where you just, like, you really need to stay on top of it. And, you know, I think if you're naturally curious, you will do that. And if you're not, if you're kind of in that middle space and you're kind of waiting for some indication from some other people, that's okay too. Just find those other people and keep an eye on what they're thinking and how, how they're moving forward in this, in this, the New World Order, whatever it may be that year.
- [40:15]
A
Well, I think we can absolutely all hold hands when we say this is that AI is the New World Order. And I'm curious, like, as that continues to change and adopt at like a breakneck speed, what does that mean for Uber's ad business? And again, how you do your job now that we've got AI moving so quickly?
- [40:33]
C
Yeah, I mean, the good news is, especially when I think of, I'm coming in to kind of build a lot of the infrastructure for where the business is going next, I don't have legacy systems that I have to get rid of. So I love being able to design everything for where this is going and I don't have to repeat anything that came before. So that I'm really excited about. And for an ads business, I mean, it impacts everything. Different creative versions that we can put out there, how quickly we can get a campaign out to market, how we can monitor our supply and our demand and our pricing structure to make sure that we're keeping up with what clients want most and what they want more of. And then our ability to measure in a much faster pace and Uber measures really quickly. But, you know, I think there's this ability to use AI and machine learning and computing power now to be able to really measure more things from more angles. And then the most important piece and the most valuable piece that's the hardest part to get to market are the insights. And the fact that we can now automate Insights is just, that's going to flip. That's going to flip our value really quickly. And because the measurement is about what you learn and then how you package it and apply the learning, and that's really where insights come in. And that's been really, really difficult to do at scale.
- [42:00]
A
I could imagine that's absolutely the case. And I, I would also imagine that, like, AI creates, like for all the efficiencies that it creates and automated and things like that. Do you think that your career trajectory could be repeated in the age of AI?
- [42:21]
C
Could it be repeated? I actually, I, I don't, I don't think. No. Right. I don't think so. I mean, I think that it. Because it's going to be A reset. So I think that the, the career trajectory that I've been on, I don't think that, I don't think that's how careers are going to go going forward. Right. I, and I don't know, I don't have anything to offer on the other side of that in terms of what is it going to be. But I do know that if you continue to expect what has happened before to be what's going to happen going forward, I think you're going to be really disappointed on where that's going to where that's going to take you. And so you really do have to consider the fact that what is happening with AI and just the tasks that it's going to allow us to do and the higher level of thinking it's going to allow you to do, you know, I think you have to just go in poised for that and ready for that and recalibrate how, what a career path is going to look like. I've also have, you know, we conversation last week. I don't even, I don't remember where it was. But you know, kind of this are. You really have to think of your career as a long game and there's, there's kind of this old track that people have that I have to have this number of people reporting to me and I have to get promoted to, you know, this number and letter level by this time or I'm a failure. And I think, you know, think about, especially with how much longer we're all living. Like you could be working until you're 80 and. Right. But you want to, you want to and, but like it's. If you think of it as just a straight line up like you're going to be really disappointed because it's going to be this meandering, lovely line if you really allow it to unfold the way that your heart wants it to unfold versus somebody else's probably rule from the 1950s that you're applying to how it should go. Like go on the journey, consider an adventure, allow twists and turns because nobody knows what the pathway is going forward because of how much the world's changing right now.
- [44:38]
A
But that's also the thing about retail media, no? Because like you don't go to school and graduate with a degree in retail media networks. So from where you sit now, kind of what advice would you give someone looking to get into that space?
- [44:54]
C
Yeah, I think the most important piece is just be open to learning on the job. Really just observe how retail especially. So let's talk specific to retail media. There's tons of opportunity in the space. We're at the very, very beginning of what retail media is going to be. There's going to be expansion and contraction that's going to happen over time. There's still so many businesses that can be spawned in support of retail media. So ad tech, data and then services, even in terms of Salesforce and how you service clients, all of those are going to continue to morph. And I think just, you know, it's an exciting area that's going to have viability to it for a very long time. So pick your lane in terms of what you're good in and more importantly, what you're just interested in as a person and dive in and go learn it. I think that retail media, commerce media, insights generation, how AI is going to change our platforms and our tools. There's just an enormous amount of opportunity in there. And don't assume that the degree has to apply to the job because these jobs have never been imagined before. And if it's of interest, get into it.
- [46:18]
A
I think that sets us up really well. And I usually would end there, but I do have one last question that I have been dying to ask as I've been reporting on this space. Right. There's been so much conversation about retail media at some point reaching a reckoning, right. For like measurement, things like that. And I think you and I have talked about that as well. Last question for you is from your purview, do you see that happening?
- [46:41]
C
I do, I do. There are so many retail media offerings in the world right now. I think that. And it's a little bit. It's chaotic. And if you are an advertiser on the other side trying to figure out what to do. Two years ago everybody said, I'm only going to invest in seven. Well, now they're saying, well, all right, maybe I'll invest in 12.
- [47:04]
A
Yes.
- [47:06]
C
So, you know, it's like advertisers don't know what to do with it and it has to get organized. And I do believe that there will be a top of the tail, a middle tail and a long tail, and there will be different support models for each of those. I don't know many businesses that don't have a right to be in retail media, but how they do it is a really important piece for the industry to sort of. And I think for consolidators, there's a huge opportunity, I think, for the big players who have the resources and the investment and the share of their leadership's attention, they can have standalone businesses, but we do have to clean it up and we do have to make it much easier for advertisers to engage with it. So there will be a reckoning.
- [47:55]
A
A word on the retail media reckoning from the retail media maven herself.
- [48:01]
C
Lizza.
- [48:01]
A
Christy, thank you so much for stopping by the pod. It was such a treat to have you.
- [48:06]
C
My pleasure to sit here and spend some time with your Kimiko. Thanks for inviting me.
- [48:16]
A
Well, that brings us to the end of this episode of the Digiday Podcast. Thank you to everyone for listening. And please don't forget to share this episode with someone who you think would enjoy it. You can even rate us and leave us a comment on Apple Podcasts. We'll be back next week with another episode of the Digiday Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.