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Jerusalem is a journalist and entrepreneur. She’s a former staff writer at The Atlantic and a former policy writer and podcaster at Vox. Last year she founded The Argument, a liberal magazine on Substack, where she serves as CEO and editor-in-chief. We went at it on liberalism and how to reform the Democrats.

For two clips of the episode — on Biden’s biggest mistakes, and how DEI went off the rails — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: born in Ethiopia as an Eritrean Christian; why her father became an atheist then converted back to Christianity; growing up in suburban Maryland and becoming a citizen at age 14; the formative influence of Amartya Sen’s The Argumentative Indian; being a Christian in a secular-left bubble; the stagnation in England before Thatcher; imposing liberalism on Iraq; torture under Bush; the long Great Recession; the American Rescue Plan and inflation; Biden ceding order on immigration; Greg Abbott exporting migrants to liberal cities; rural and retired voters most against immigration but least affected; cancel culture; the race card on immigration; the antisemite card on Israel; US aid to Israel; Hormuz and oil prices; Jerome Powell; DEI and the NYT lawsuit; diversity vs quotas; trans issues; the suicide canard; orgasm loss and FGM; opposition to bathroom bills reversed; Bostock; housing policy and abundance; ICE in Minneapolis; JD Vance; Kamala and Hillary; Jon Ossoff; and Keir’s cautionary tale for moderate liberals.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. We have some real stars coming up: Ben Rhodes on Iran and speech-writing, Harvey Mansfield on modernity, HW Brands on the life of George Washington, John Gray on Trump’s new world, Bob Wright on the evolutionary force of AI, Tiffany Jenkins on privacy in a liberal democracy, Daniel McCarthy on conservatism, Stephen Grosz on the struggles of love, and Robby George on all our disagreements. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.