The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show

Episode: A Parent's Guide to Vaccines & Obesity: Protecting Your Child in a Confusing World
Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon
Guest: Dr. Joel Warsh (Pediatrician, Author of Between a Shot and a Hard Place)

Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Joel Warsh, an integrative pediatrician, in a candid, nuanced discussion with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon about emerging trends affecting child health—particularly chronic disease, vaccines, and obesity. Together, they dissect the surge in childhood chronic illnesses, ongoing vaccine debates, systemic failures in public health, and actionable guidance for parents. The conversation emphasizes transparency, personal choice, and the urgent need for research and open dialogue.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Epidemic of Childhood Chronic Disease

• Rising Trends:
  Dr. Warsh sounds the alarm on rising rates of chronic disease in children and adults:

  "50% of kids have a chronic disease, and the latest statistics just came out, and it's 75% of adults. That number is staggering, and it continues to get worse." (01:32)

• Not Isolated:
  Increases are seen not only in obesity, but also diabetes, neurodevelopmental issues, autoimmune diseases, cancer, and more.
• Observation:
  Dr. Warsh notes,

  “More and more kids seem like they have developmental concerns or chronic conditions, or they just always seem sick, unfortunate. I think that we're seeing this.” (02:25)

2. Nuances Around Vaccines

a. Informed Consent and Parental Autonomy

• Dr. Warsh clarifies his stance:

  "I'm not against vaccines. My personal belief is that we should have informed consent. People should be able to choose whether they want to do or not do any sort of medical procedure..." (04:26)

• The discussion stresses the importance of nuanced, individualized decision-making rather than rigid adherence to mandates.

b. The Hepatitis B Vaccine at Birth

• Risk Calculation:

  "You're asked to give a vaccine to a newborn baby, literally a day old... you have to ask yourself about the risks. And we never talk about that in modern medicine." (04:26)

• Transmission Clarity:

  “If you have hepatitis B, it may very well be reasonable to get that vaccine… But if you don’t have hepatitis B... your risk is infinitesimal, really, really, really small.” (07:08)

• Parental Empowerment:

  "You're putting parents on day one in a position where they have to make a choice to listen to the doctor and the CDC or go against that recommendation. And I think that's a really bad place to be." (06:00)

c. Vaccine Side Effects & Long-Term Unknowns

• Short-Term Risks:

  "Fever, pain, swelling, get sick in that week... Major complications are documented to be pretty rare... seizures, Guillain-Barre syndrome..." (08:53)

• Knowledge Gaps:

  "The question is really to me more around long-term risks, which we just don't really know. It's never really been studied in that way." (08:53)

• Both agree on the absence of research into cumulative long-term impacts of the current vaccine schedule.

d. Vaccine Mandates & Recent Policy Changes

• On Florida’s removal of vaccine requirements:

  "It's a bold move... But I don't think that's the right incentive. The right incentive should be people should get vaccinated because they want them, because the science is clear..." (10:57)

3. Vaccines and Autism: Debunked or Unanswered?

a. Exploding Rates, Unanswered Questions

• "It was, you know, maybe 1 in 150 to 1 in 65, 68, 20 years ago, and now it's 1 in 31 are the latest numbers. 1 in 12.5 boys in California." (13:50)

• Challenging media narratives, Dr. Warsh asserts:

  "Yes, we're better at diagnosing it... But something is happening, and the fact that we're not open to looking into everything, including vaccines, is absurd." (13:50)

b. Scientific Integrity and Research Gaps

• A central theme:

  "We haven't studied anything where it's vaccinated versus unvaccinated kids. Not one study exists on that with autism." (16:12)

• Dr. Warsh calls for more research, notes scientific and professional disincentives preventing necessary studies:

  "There's been a major push... to call the people quacks and then destroy their careers..." (16:55)

• On needing rigorous evidence:

  "When you say something has been debunked or that the science is settled, you need very strong evidence to say that. We don't even have weak evidence to say that. It's insane." (18:41)

Notable Moment

• Dr. Warsh’s candor:

  “There is nothing that has shocked me more in my probably entire life than looking into the autism research myself… We have not done the best kind of research, the research that we need to tackle this topic.” (15:19)

4. The Changing CDC Landscape

• Recent Upheaval:
  • Secretary Kennedy has overhauled CDC leadership, firing long-standing officials and advisory committee members, causing media and internal backlash. (20:16)
  • Mainstream medical community resists the changes, viewing them as anti-science.
• Perspective on Change:

  “Whatever was done before has absolutely failed in terms of our overall chronic health and chronic disease. So we have to do something different.” (71:17)

• Nuance Over Extremes:

  “Everything is very nuanced in this and there does need to be a lot more discussions and I hope that that does happen. But it seems like we're moving in the other direction.” (26:17)

5. Navigating Information as Parents

• Guidance for Parents:

  "The first step is... to get educated to some degree on the different concerns that are out there and what the mainstream is talking about with vaccines and what the counterpoints are. And I think you need to read multiple different books." (29:22)

• Choosing practitioners:

  "Ultimately, again, it is personal choice. And the reason it's personal choice is because no one's ever studied anything else." (31:30)

Memorable Quotes

• On Parental Choice and Vaccine Risk:
  “A vaccine doesn’t have zero risk. And so I think it’s reasonable to say, okay, but what are the risks from this vaccine? If you don’t feel like vaccines are the best thing for your kid, you should be allowed not to take them.” – Dr. Joel Warsh (00:02)

• On the Need for Open Dialogue:
  “We need to look into everything. Some kids with autism do phenomenally well, and that's okay. But there are a lot of families where they have severe complications... a lot of severe autism, which is much higher than it used to be, and those families want help.” – Dr. Joel Warsh (13:50)

• On Nutrition and Parental Responsibility:
  “We have to change our food. I mean, we have to change the food system... It’s really important that you have to take some responsibility to understand that. I love that you’re saying that because ultimately you’re the one purchasing the food, especially when they’re younger.” – Dr. Joel Warsh (57:56)

• On the Failure of the Status Quo:
  “We have clearly failed at public health in this country. We're the sickest western country... chronic disease rate 75%... We have to make all sorts of changes. We have to move in a different direction. And some of those things are going to be right and some of them are going to be wrong. But what's definitely wrong is what we've been doing.” – Dr. Joel Warsh (71:17)

Chronic Disease, Obesity, and the Food System

Environmental & Lifestyle Determinants

• Dr. Warsh emphasizes that environmental toxins, processed foods, and inactivity are foundational to modern chronic disease (55:45).
  • “It's our crappy food and it's the toxins that we're exposed to. And we just have not acknowledged that up until more recently that we're bombarded with chemicals and toxins all the time through our food and through our environment.” (55:45)

On Childhood Obesity and Parental Responsibility

• Call to Action for Parents:
  “You have to take some responsibility to understand that. I love that you’re saying that because ultimately you’re the one purchasing the food, especially when they’re younger and we have to be okay with buying real food and preparing that food more.” (57:56)
• On Broken Food Systems:
  “It's the choices that we're making and the food system that's so screwed up. ...ultimately it's the system. It's the ultra processed food.” (59:51-60:40)
• Discussion of food accessibility and societal responsibility for systemic change.

Activity, Sedentarism, and Screen Time

• Movement is Key:
  • “We're not moving. Kids are on screen seven plus hours a day on average… If you are on seven plus hours [of screen time], then what are you not doing? You're not moving, you're not getting outside.” (62:51-63:02)
• Advocating for Standards:
  • “Having standards makes sense. I don't have any problem with that, but I have a problem with looking at our health where we are. We want to get better. We have to have some major changes, and that's going to cause a little bit of turmoil in the interim. But we need it.” (72:25)

Noteworthy Segments (with Timestamps)

• [00:02] Vaccines, Autism, and Risk/Benefit Calculation
• [01:32] Chronic Disease Trends and Disturbing Statistics
• [04:26] Informed Consent and Parental Autonomy in Vaccine Decisions
• [07:08] Hepatitis B Transmission and Real Risk Calculation
• [10:57] Vaccine Mandates, Florida’s Policy, and Personal Choice
• [13:50] Autism Diagnoses: Prevalence and Debates
• [16:12] Research Gaps in Vaccine Safety Studies
• [20:16] CDC Restructuring and Culture Clash
• [29:22] Parental Strategies for Navigating Confusing Medical Advice
• [43:52] Clinician Observations: Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated Children
• [55:45] Environmental and Food System Factors in Chronic Childhood Illness
• [57:56] Childhood Obesity and the Dual Roles of Parents and Systems
• [62:51] Sedentarism, Screen Use, and Activity Standards
• [68:47] GLP-1 Medications for Children and Societal Quick Fixes
• [74:32] Lifelong Impact: Early Movement and Healthy Habits

Actionable Advice for Parents

• Do Your Research:
  Read beyond official guidelines, seek multiple perspectives, and empower yourself to make informed decisions.

  "Read multiple different books... form your opinion... make the best decisions with all the information that you do have..." (29:22)

• Prioritize Real Food and Minimize Ultra-Processed Food:

  "Buy real food. Prepare your food. Read every label. Move away from ultra-processed foods." (57:56; 77:44-79:24)

• Encourage Movement & Limit Screen Time:

  “Something that keeps you moving, like, you know, soccer is great, whatever it is, but I don't care right now. I think just something.” (73:19)

• Have Open, Nonjudgmental Conversations with Your Healthcare Provider:
  Seek practitioners willing to discuss alternatives, acknowledge unknowns, and respect your choices.

Final Thoughts

This episode provides an uncommonly balanced space to examine complicated issues—vaccines, chronic diseases, parental authority, and systemic failures. Dr. Warsh stresses the need for humility in medicine, urging acknowledgment of uncertainty and prioritizing parent education and agency. Both he and Dr. Lyon call for parents to become proactive stewards of their children’s health by engaging in transparent conversations, advocating for better research, and taking actionable steps—starting with fresh food, movement, and reading labels.

Closing Reflection:

“We're not raising children, we're raising adults. We're raising humans to contribute to society.” – Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (75:19)

For a deep dive into these topics, see Dr. Warsh’s book, “Between a Shot and a Hard Place,” and follow future episodes of The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show for evolving conversations on health.