Podcast Summary: The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show – "Steroids & Testosterone: The Science Behind Anabolic Therapies | Nelson Vergel"

Release Date: March 18, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show, host Dr. Gabrielle Lyon welcomes Nelson Virgil, a pioneering voice in hormone optimization. Virgil shares his extraordinary journey from an HIV diagnosis in the 1980s to becoming a leading advocate for anabolic therapies that have transformed countless lives. This episode delves deep into the misunderstood world of testosterone, steroids, and hormone optimization, exploring their roles beyond bodybuilding and addressing the stigmas that have long surrounded these therapies.

Nelson Virgil's Journey: From HIV Diagnosis to Hormone Optimization

[00:00] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
"From an HIV diagnosis in the 1980s to becoming one of the world's leading..."

Nelson Virgil begins by recounting his harrowing experience of being diagnosed with HIV at the age of 24 during a time when treatment options were virtually nonexistent. He describes the despair of witnessing friends succumb to wasting syndrome and Kaposi sarcoma, highlighting the urgent need for effective treatments.

[02:23] Nelson Virgil:
"Most people would drop within a year of being told that they're HIV positive. And most people would die of wasting syndrome..."

The Devastation of HIV in the 1980s

Virgil paints a vivid picture of the mid-1980s HIV landscape, emphasizing the lack of awareness and treatment. He shares his personal anguish over losing loved ones and the pervasive fear within the community.

[06:34] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
"People are forgetting about it now."

Discovery and Implementation of Anabolic Steroids as a Lifesaving Therapy

Against this bleak backdrop, Virgil narrates how his transfer to Los Angeles introduced him to bodybuilding culture, where individuals were using anabolic steroids to counteract the debilitating effects of HIV. This revelation became a turning point in his life, inspiring him to explore and advocate for the use of steroids to regain muscle mass, strength, and overall quality of life.

[08:51] Nelson Virgil:
"Bodybuilding saved my life. Bodybuilders saved my life."

Establishment of the Houston Buyers Club

Virgil discusses the formation of the Houston Buyers Club, a pivotal initiative aimed at sourcing and providing anabolic agents to HIV-positive individuals. This club was instrumental in importing steroids from countries like Mexico and Israel, offering a lifeline to many suffering from muscle wasting.

[27:20] Nelson Virgil:
"The Houston Buyers Club was. We were looking for treatments for HIV. There was nothing."

Stigma and Legal Challenges Surrounding Anabolic Steroid Use

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the stigma attached to anabolic steroid use, exacerbated by the Anabolic Steroid Control Act enacted to combat their misuse in sports. Virgil explains how this legislation hindered research and access to steroids for medical purposes, deepening the misconceptions about their safety and effectiveness.

[35:01] Nelson Virgil:
"They were sold as causing aggressiveness, which is how they sold the Anabolic Steroid Control Act."

Anabolic Agents Explored: Nandrolone, Oxandrolone, and Testosterone

Virgil provides an in-depth analysis of various anabolic agents:

• Nandrolone: An injectable anabolic steroid praised for its efficacy in increasing lean body mass without significant liver toxicity. Virgil emphasizes its safety when used in appropriate doses and in conjunction with testosterone to prevent hormonal imbalances.

  [40:42] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
  "Typically, nandrolone is given at 50% the dose of testosterone or less."

• Oxandrolone: An oral anabolic agent with a higher anabolic-to-androgenic ratio, making it suitable for both men and women. It is highlighted for its role in treating unintentional weight loss and muscle wasting.

  [60:57] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
  "At Low dose oxandrolone is taken orally, had a little issue in 2023. Still available."

• Testosterone: Discussed as a foundational hormone that supports overall health, mood, and muscle mass. Virgil clarifies that while testosterone is often misconstrued as purely androgenic, its proper use can have numerous health benefits.

Hormones and Health: Debunking Myths

Virgil tackles common misconceptions about hormone therapies, such as the belief that anabolic agents cause aggression, liver damage, or increase cancer risks. He elucidates the physiological roles of hormones like estrogen in both men and women, arguing that balanced hormone levels are crucial for overall well-being.

[46:32] Nelson Virgil:
"These are modified molecules for decreasing metabolism in the liver and for improving anabolic efficiency effects."

Impact on Lipids and Liver Function

A critical discussion point revolves around the effects of anabolic agents on lipid profiles and liver enzymes. Virgil explains that while anabolic steroids can decrease HDL (the "good" cholesterol) and affect liver enzymes, these changes may not significantly impact overall cardiovascular risk. He advocates for comprehensive monitoring, including tests like cystatin C for kidney function and advanced liver function tests beyond standard AST and ALT levels.

[66:52] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
"Is it meaningful that it would be?"

Advocacy for Access and Future of Anabolic Therapies

Virgil expresses concern over potential future restrictions on compounded hormonal treatments due to legislative and regulatory pressures. He underscores the importance of accessibility to these therapies for individuals struggling with muscle wasting and other catabolic conditions.

[93:47] Nelson Virgil:
"Access to hormone treatments, affordable home hormone treatments, may be affected by decisions from legislators."

Conclusion: Championing Body Autonomy and Informed Medical Guidance

Dr. Lyon emphasizes the importance of body autonomy and the necessity of undergoing hormone therapies under the supervision of trusted healthcare providers. She urges listeners to explore the literature, seek knowledgeable physicians, and remain informed about the benefits and risks associated with anabolic therapies.

[78:43] Nelson Virgil:
"Yes. And I see it coming. I also see more infringement of the FDA and other regulatory agencies on access, compounding, access of compounded products."

[93:17] Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:
"If you are listening to this and you're thinking, you know what? I have been struggling with...? Please do not go online and try to purchase something on your own without the guidance of a physician."

Notable Quotes

• Nelson Virgil at [02:25]:
  "Most people would drop within a year of being told that they're HIV positive. And most people would die of wasting syndrome."

• Dr. Gabrielle Lyon at [12:54]:
  "We're talking about off label. Yeah, off label is actually clinical use."

• Nelson Virgil at [35:02]:
  "They said testosterone and anabolics are bad for lipids because there's a decrease in HDL, but there's also a huge decrease in triglycerides."

Key Takeaways

1. Historical Impact of Anabolic Therapies: Anabolic steroids played a crucial role in extending the lives of HIV-positive individuals by combating muscle wasting and improving overall health.

2. Stigma and Legislation: The Anabolic Steroid Control Act and societal stigmas have significantly hindered research and medical use of anabolic agents, limiting their potential benefits.

3. Medical Uses Beyond Bodybuilding: Agents like Nandrolone and Oxandrolone have legitimate medical applications in treating conditions characterized by muscle loss, such as sarcopenia, cancer-related wasting, and severe chronic illnesses.

4. Importance of Informed Use and Monitoring: Proper medical supervision is essential when using anabolic therapies to balance benefits with potential risks, ensuring safe and effective treatment.

5. Advocacy for Accessibility: There is a pressing need to advocate for continued access to hormone optimization therapies to address emerging health challenges related to muscle loss and aging.

Further Resources

• Nelson Virgil's Forums:
  For those interested in deeper insights and community discussions, Nelson oversees extensive forums discussing hormone optimization and anabolic therapies.

• Dr. Gabrielle Lyon’s Clinic:
  Individuals seeking guidance and professional supervision for hormone therapies are encouraged to contact Dr. Lyon’s concierge medical practice.

• Educational Articles and Studies:
  Guests are encouraged to review published research on agents like Nandrolone and Oxandrolone to better understand their medical applications and safety profiles.

This summary encapsulates the depth and breadth of the conversation between Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and Nelson Virgil, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of anabolic therapies and their transformative potential in medical science.