← The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show
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- [00:00]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Is there something that happened? Was there a moment that made you start to reflect on transitioning from being super gritty to finding a middle balance for more empathy?
- [00:14]
Leila Hermozi
I don't know if there was one moment, but I think there were, like, lots of little moments leading up. I think it's really easy to get caught up in wanting to win. Like, I went through a period in the beginning of my first business where I said, the only thing that matters is this. And it's because, like, you know, me and Alex, my partner husband, we put all our money into it. We had no money. We lost all of our money. Like, we were broke. And I was like, I don't give a about anybody else. I need to make money. Otherwise, I don't have. What am I gonna do? I'm not gonna, like, go back. Like, that would suck. And so I just said, like, I don't really care about friendships. I don't really care about seeing my family right now. I don't care about anything. Like, I need to make this work. Failure's data. I don't understand. I, like, actually don't, like. I do not think failure is a bad thing. I think people have a bad relationship with failure. They look at it like it means something about them. They look at it like it's a bad thing. Like, every time you fail, you are that much closer to success. Like, I really do believe that innately in my blood, like, there has been nothing that I have succeeded at that I have not failed at first.
- [01:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
People are always striving to make it. Do you feel like you've made. Laila. So good to see you.
- [01:36]
Leila Hermozi
It's good to see you, too.
- [01:37]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
This is great. We get to do it in person in Las Vegas. Amazing.
- [01:40]
Leila Hermozi
I'm so excited.
- [01:42]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So you've been in fitness for a long time?
- [01:46]
Leila Hermozi
Yes, technically.
- [01:47]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Right. And my question is, do you think that you would have come as far if fitness wasn't a standard?
- [01:54]
Leila Hermozi
It's actually really funny because I was talking about that with my husband, like, literally a week ago, which was. I'm so glad that I actually had the foundation in fitness going into business, because I think just with how immersed I have been in it and how much the obsession, it's taken over my life, I don't know if I would've been able to take care of myself. I hadn't had the foundation there. And so we were both talking about that. I think that if I hadn't had the foundation, there's a few things, which is, like, one, I don't think that I would have been able to go as long as I have or have the endurance because I wouldn't have known how to take care of myself. And so it's like, if I hadn't known how to eat or how to exercise or sleep or like any of those things, I think I would have burned out pretty quick. I think a lot of people do. And I would say the second thing is that the skill of learning how to do things that suck, that are hard, that you don't feel like doing that go against. It's like things that feel bad but then you learn are good for you.
- [02:48]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Like most things, which is most things.
- [02:49]
Leila Hermozi
That's right. I think fitness really taught me that. I would say the last one is like confidence. You know, every time, like when I got into fitness when I was super overweight, I didn't have any confidence. And I learned that you never feel ready, you never feel like you should be in the gym, you never. Until eventually one day it just kind of happens. And it's the output, not the input. And so no, I don't think that I would have been able to. And like, I still love fitness so much because it's like no matter what has happened, I think a lot of people see what I do and they must think like, you have no life, you do. I will not go a day without doing exercise. Like I have never. The only time that I've not exercised, like if I'm post surgery and I cannot, I think one time I had a really bad flu and I didn't go on a walk. Besides that, it's been like 15 years.
- [03:38]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's, it's unusual, right? So I see entrepreneurs in my practice and I can always tell a rookie entrepreneur, you know why? Because they work hard all the time and they don't take care of themselves. And there's this inevitable burnout because it's predictable, right? You're chasing these highs and lows, but the seasoned entrepreneur is really steady. Really steady. You said something else that I thought was really interesting. This idea that there's confidence and belief. And I was thinking about the warriors in the arena. My son's name is Leonidas. We talk lots about the Spartans and he's training for the seal teams. By the way, he's four, he's far.
- [04:16]
Leila Hermozi
That's really cute.
- [04:17]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's really tough when your 4 year old wants to cold plunge and you're like, no, bro, I'm out, I'm good. Yeah. And it makes you look, yeah, pretty weak. But besides the point, you know, I Think about those Spartans and the warriors and the Gladiators. I don't think that they had self belief before they stepped into the arena.
- [04:36]
Leila Hermozi
No, like, I think it's interesting because I think now, I mean, I think a lot about this actually, which is almost like even just like the, like if we go back really, really far, we didn't even have language. Now we have language and it's like how does that affect how quickly we take action? Because we're, you know, we, instead of just going and doing the thing, we have the option of like talking about it and venting to somebody and like almost emotionally vomiting about the thing until we do the thing. So like that's super meta. But I think about that a lot. I think it's just a fallacy because like for me, when I start anything, like when I was a hundred pounds overweight before I started my first business, before I started my business, I have now, that was only four years ago, before I bought my first business, before I made my first piece of content, which by the way, I had a net worth of hundreds of millions of dollars. When I started making content, I didn't have any confidence or self belief in any of those things despite even having high levels of self belief in other areas. But those other areas had small areas that were transferable, but they weren' fully transferable. And I think what happened was that the first thing I ever did in my life that really changed my life was losing a lot of weight and getting into shape and doing fitness and realizing that it was literally just boring af. It was nothing fancy, nothing special, just like I, everyone asked me like, how'd you lose a hundred pounds? Like how much cardio did you have to do? None. I just walked, I walked, I lifted weights and I just ate moderately. Like it was just the boring stuff. And so when I look at all the other areas of life now, I use that as like an anchor to get into anything else. Like I remember I was like, I can lose a hundred pounds, I can learn how to start a business. It's like, okay, now if I can learn how to start a business, I can learn how to start a different kind of business. If I can learn how to start three businesses, I can learn how to buy a business. Like it, it just stacked in terms of like I had evidence to pull on that I had done something before, but every time I got into the same situation, like I got in front of a camera to make content or I, you know, was like, I'm going to buy this business, I'm going to due diligence. I'm going to hire this person that's millions of dollars a year. Whatever it was. I didn't have belief in that area. I could recall things that I'd done before and be like, you're the type of person who can do hard things, the type of person who can build self belief. But I didn't have belief in those areas. I never felt like I was ready. I was always terrified. It's always the type of thing where you're like not sleeping well the night before, you feel sick, whatever. Like I tell people all the time, like, I still get a stomachache about these things. Like I am a human. Um, and so I think that it's now I'm at the point where I'm like, okay, I understand how this goes. Which is like the price that you pay for your dreams is discomfort today. But like, you don't get the dreams tomorrow unless you pay the price of discomfort today. Which is doing something when you don't feel ready. Like, what is discomfort? If you really, like think about it, right? I'm like, discomfort is doing something before you feel ready. Like if we really boil it down, that is most of the time what that actually is. It's the anticipatory anxiety of I don't know how this is gonna turn out because I've never done it before. And so I think about that a lot because I anchored so much to that before I started my business. Like, if I can lose a hundred pounds, I can do this. Like, I, I did lost £100. I placed second in the Tahiti competition, by the way. Almost passed out on stage cause I was so nervous, but I did it and I was like, if I can do that, I can start a business. And I think for a lot of people, they believe that in order to do the thing, you have to feel like you're ready for the thing. You have to have these prerequisites checked off and all these things. It's like I joke with people when they're like, hey, what should I study? What course should I take to learn business? I'm like, you just fucking get in there and do it. Like, I don't know what else to say. Like, you've got to get in the arena and actually start. People ask me like, how do you learn about business? And I'm not. They're like, are you just gate, gatekeeping? Like, you're not telling me what books you read. And I'm like, I have read like six very good books on Business. And outside of that, everything comes from just trying stuff and not being afraid to fail.
- [08:24]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But you become less comfort, less. Do you experience less discomfort? Because now you're. Yeah. Cause now you're seasoned at. Now you're. Oh, I know what to expect.
- [08:33]
Leila Hermozi
I think that. I'll say. I think there's global discomfort and local discomfort. My general level of anxiety has gone down over time because I've taught myself how to manage those situations, and I've proven to myself that I can confront those situations. My localized anxiety to, like, right when I'm gonna step on a stage with 10,000 people or 15,000 people is still there. But I don't have anxiety about my anxiety anymore. It's more exact. I think in the beginning, you have anxiety about even having the anxiety. And over time, I think what's happened is that I don't have anxiety over the feeling of anxiety. I understand that I'm willing to pay that price to get the life I want. And that price is usually just like a feeling in my body that just. I don't love having, but I understand I need to have in order to get what I want. Does that make sense?
- [09:20]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It does. And most people think about where they want to go. Did you think about where you wanted to go?
- [09:28]
Leila Hermozi
I've always thought about the person I want to be. I haven't thought as much. I know it sounds cheesy, but, like, I haven't thought as much about where I want to go more than I've thought who do I want to be, and then what roads could take me there. And I think I'm flexible in terms of, like, what the road looks like. But I'm really fixated on, like, what I want myself to look like. And it's just constant improvement in every area, like, mostly around my character.
- [09:53]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Tell me about that. What do you mean?
- [09:56]
Leila Hermozi
When I think about. So I'll give you an example. Like, I think that early in my life, like, when I started losing weight and stuff, I was like, I want to be more resilient. I want to be grittier. I want to be tougher. I want to be strong. I want to be disciplined. And I got really good at that. But there's another side to who I want to be that it started to atrophy. Cause I worked so hard on this, which was like, I want to still be able to be empathetic and kind and funny and caring and supportive. And so in the last 18, 24 months, I've said, I think I'm good enough over here. But the version of myself that I see and who I want to be in this world that I think can give the most to the most amount of people has this just as strong as this. And so I've said, okay, how do I train this muscle instead of this muscle? And so what I read, how I work, conversations I have, my intentions, I set every day are focused on that rather than this. Because I'm like, this is now almost automatic. I can do that in my sleep. It's not hard for me to go hard, but it is harder for me to learn to slow down, to stop, to be compassionate, to be empathetic, to listen, to be present. And I'm getting a lot better at it. But it's like it all came from, like, I looked at, you know, who is Layla when she's. You know, I think about when I'm like, 65 years old and someone's interviewing me, which 65 is not super old, but, like, it's still gone. It's right. It's still like 30 years above where I am right now. Right. Um, and so I was like, she's a lot softer than you are right now. That was like, two years ago that I had that kind of, like, check in with myself. And so I think it just all anchors around, like, who do you want to be and what do you want to be known for? Like, I think about, like, when I die, what do I want people to say about me?
- [11:32]
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- [12:15]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
A problem area for me.
- [12:16]
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- [12:41]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That takes a lot of thought Is there something that happened? Was there a moment that made you start to reflect on transitioning from being super gritty to finding a middle balance for more empathy?
- [12:58]
Leila Hermozi
I don't know if there was one moment, but I think there were, like, lots of little moments leading up. Like, I think it's really easy to get caught up in wanting to win. And, you know, I made this podcast about, like, you want to be really careful what people applaud you for, because it's like, people tell us we're really good at something, they applaud you for it. You get likes on Instagram. People tell you that you're amazing at this thing, but if it's not aligned with what you want to keep doing to get where you want to go, it's really easy to get caught up in it, and you don't even realize it. And I think that especially with the culture that we have today, I think, like, when I first. I'm being completely transparent. Like, when I first started making content, because I'd done everything behind the scenes with my businesses prior, it wasn't like, public facing. I started making content. People were like, yeah, like, you know, it was like, the first, like, I would say, like, feedback I got was just, like, from a lot more, like, people that were like, yeah, we love the discipline and the hard work and look how hard she works. And, like, I almost felt like I had to, at that point, you know, maybe four years ago, show people that I had that in me, because I felt like, if I'm being honest, people didn't know that I had the ability to work that hard because I'm a woman. And I felt like I had to prove that I'm strong and that I'm disciplined. I'm all these things. And then I want to say it was probably about two and a half years ago that I was, like, watching my own content, and I was like, I don't even like her. And I was like, why don't I, like. And I was like, I've gotten so hardened because I'm trying to prove something to people that I don't care about, which is crazy based on the fact that I do not need to do this. I don't need to work. I don't need to do any of this. But, like, I feel the need to prove that I'm capable of something that I already know I'm capable of. I've proven that to myself. And when that happened, I said, like, I want to go. Like, I almost had to say, like, I already know who I am. I've just leaned really far in one direction. Um, and that was when I was like, I want to not only get back in touch with more of this other side of myself, but also, like, I want that incorporated in everything. Like, that was the point in time where, like, I had my team. I was like, listen, I make jokes and crack jokes. I'm like a fucking dad jokes. Terrible. Not even funny to a lot of people. But like, that's part of.
- [15:15]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I understand about that.
- [15:16]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. I'm like, I want to show that. I want to show, like me, you know, with my husband. I want to show behind the scenes. We started doing vlogging because I was like, I want people to see that, like, you can be successful and not just be these things. And I want to remind myself of that because I don't want to be an extreme person either one of these directions. I want to be me, which is both and in the middle and probably ever evolving. Totally. It's like we're never stagnant. Right? I mean, like, are you the same person you were five years ago?
- [15:44]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No.
- [15:44]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [15:45]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Not yesterday. It just depends on which side of the bed I wake up on. I mean, you know, my kids are still sleeping with me, so they're jujitsuing me in the face all night, so I usually wake up pretty cranky.
- [15:54]
Leila Hermozi
That makes sense.
- [15:55]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But when you really started being forward facing, was there something that you were hoping for?
- [16:02]
Leila Hermozi
I always just thought, like, when I started making content, it was not out of a need for the business. In fact, like, my content doesn't even loop back to my business. Like, I don't have like a funnel. Like of. We were just talking about actually, like, literally before this. I was like, I don't do shit with right now. I. We sold our first business, my husband and I, and that was about seven years after starting it. And I was like, what is something that I could see myself doing the rest of my life? And then I thought about what kind of impact I wanted to have on the world. And I said, well, what would have to happen? What would have to change about me to have that impact? And I was like, I can't keep hiding. I think I need to get. I need to be more public facing. And that was when I said, I want to get out there because I think that I want to show people, especially at that point, you know, everyone on Instagram was just like, oh, look at my Ferrari and my money and all my this. And it's just like, look at my money, you know, and they're like, oh, let me show you how to build a business. And I'm like, what? Real business owners, like, look at all the money I have. Like, nobody that I know that's like really good at business is like, let me show you how much money is all over the place.
- [17:06]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's like, in fact, they're probably the opposite, right?
- [17:08]
Leila Hermozi
They're the opposite. They're like, I want nobody to see this because I don't want to have to deal with these lawsuits. I got enough shit on my plate. And I was like, it would be really cool if I could show. Be transparent in a way that inspires people so that when it gets hard, they realize that that's normal. And for people that want to be in business but don't relate to that very, like, I would say, like, ego driven, status driven, money driven side that they can see. Like, you can have other motives and still succeed in business. And so it was just kind of all those things I was thinking, like, I didn't have somebody that I looked up to, especially a female when I was starting in business. And so, you know, I had a lot of everyone ask me. And it's all men that I looked up to. And I think also because on the other side, there were some females, but they didn't talk about business. They just did business, but they didn't talk about the same tactics or strategies that men did. And I was like, well, I would love to learn from you, but like, I don't know. Come on, Kris Jenner. No, but like, you're like, somebody's gotta, like, talk about that, right? And so that inspired me to start making content in the first place. And then I think the first 18 months were just like absolute dogshit. Like, it was, it was terrible. Um, like, people just said so many things about me that were so mean. After I got past that first 18 months, then it really started to feel like relief. Like, there weren't so many people saying such mean stuff. And then.
- [18:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Were you listening to it?
- [18:36]
Leila Hermozi
Listening to it?
- [18:37]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Like, you know, seeing it.
- [18:40]
Leila Hermozi
I didn't actively look for it, so I'm not that type of person. Like, I don't search my name often or do any of that stuff. Like, I'll do it. Like, I literally think I did this morning for the first time in like three or four months. But I will see things and people will message me or tag me or I'll have friends send me things. You know what I mean?
- [18:57]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Like, why do they do that? Don't do that, guys. They do that to Me too.
- [19:00]
Leila Hermozi
It's so weird, right? Yeah. The thing is, it's like, it doesn't rile me up, especially because of the stuff I went through in the beginning, but I'm just like, this is unnecessary. Like, I just don't. I'm like, what kind of a troll? Like, I've never said a mean thing about anybody on the Internet. I can't, like, fathom having a life where you have time. Can you imagine having time? No, I just. I think that I'm like, you have to.
- [19:17]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I can't even find my.
- [19:18]
Leila Hermozi
My socks.
- [19:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No, definitely not.
- [19:20]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. I mean, so it's that. And so, yeah, I think making the content and being public facing was like, how do I spread the message faster? And that's what works for a lot of people right now.
- [19:33]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Why do you think there's not that many women in positions to provide, I don't want to say value, but, for example, to look up to, because I think that it's almost across the board, even in the longevity space or even in, you know, my husband was in the Navy, and, you know, I think about our other SEAL friends, like Jocko and Johnny Kim and these guys that, you know, I would say a lot of the team guys also resonate. But what about women?
- [20:05]
Leila Hermozi
It's interesting because I've thought about that a few times. So here's my theory on some of it, which is like, women gain nothing from the opposite sex by showing how much money status they have. So, like, a woman being like, I have girls that will come to, like, I don't understand. Like, I have a good career, I'm making money, I'm like, girl, he don't give a about that.
- [20:25]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But are you on Tinder?
- [20:26]
Leila Hermozi
Right. It's like, he doesn't really care that much about that. Like, I think that, like, I often think about it, like, what are we programmed biologically to do? And like men, it's like, if you have a lot of money and status and fame, women typically flock to you. I think for women, I'm not sure. I think that it might be intimidating to a degree. For men, I mean, I don't. You probably get this, but, like, I definitely met people who are. Get more shy because of it. And so one, I don't know if it reinforces the pursuit of finding a partner. Um, the second one is that I don't think that. I think women have been socially conditioned not to advocate for themselves. So I don't think that many women, at least I think about myself. It wasn't like, you're not really taught to speak up. You know, I think now the narrative has changed, but I think a lot of people that's still like programmed is like less self advocacy. And in the advocacy that did exist, it was like, you know, I think about like when I was in middle school or high school, it's like, it's just like, okay to like look good, not to use your brains. And then I would say like the third piece being, I have. There are a decent amount of like, I would say studies to support that. Like a lot of women have. There's a lot of female business owners, but there's not a ton that have. There's not still as many out there speaking up who have larger businesses, which might be again, because they have kids and they want privacy. Or like, I think about that, like, maybe that's the reason why. But like when I look at the women out there that are teaching business, it's like often smaller, so it doesn't get as much reach. Because if you think about anybody in a place of authority, if you want to get reach, you have to have a lot of credibility. Where's credibility and business come from? Having a bigger business with more money. So I think about those three things as like the reason why there's probably not as many. Um, and then I think that there's just a natural, like just being completely honest. How the are you supposed to have a business, make content, have kids, have a husband? Be it like that is hard. So there's just a constraint of time.
- [22:21]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Where it's like, it's called you sacrifice sleep, right?
- [22:24]
Leila Hermozi
Lots of sleep, a hundred percent. It's like, I mean, I don't wanna do that. So it's like, I think about people that have kids, have a business, have a relationship, have friends, and now I'm gonna make content about it too. It's like they ha. Something has to give. You can't be everything to everybody. And so I think that it's difficult for a lot of women. The ones I've spoken to that are like very legitimate in business. They're like, I just don't have time.
- [22:44]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So how do we determine business legitimacy?
- [22:47]
Leila Hermozi
I mean, I think about anybody in business, I think about like being legit in business would be like the. I mean, I'm not saying I find this, but like, I would say like the quality and quantity. Meaning, like the. If you were to test a business and say, like, how is it legit? It makes a lot of money, grows a lot, and people say good things about it. Customers and Employees. And I would say if you have those three things and like, you'd be like, that's a legit business. I think that if you have a business where people say good things both internally and externally, but it's small, it's like you have credibility with small businesses, not large businesses. If you have a big business that has lots of money, et cetera, but nobody says good things about it, you have credibility with scammers. So that's how I think about it.
- [23:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's helpful because I think a lot of people listening. So my audience is, you know, they're really interested in evolving. And even though the entry point is medicine, we really bring on the best of the best in all of their domains. And I think one of the big challenges is, you know, in our content. For example, a lot of the scientists that are out there are mental health. There are some women, but it is not easy to get them to come on, easy to get them to be forward facing. And it just, it's confusing because I think there's so much to gain from a sisterhood.
- [24:00]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [24:00]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You know, right before this, we called one of my best friends, Emily Frisella. Emily, love you. You're probably not listening to this podcast, but whatever. And there is something special in women supporting other women. But you know who you see that mostly in the guys. I think the bros, they are like, there to support each other versus the women. It's more, at least from what I see, more like crabs in the barrel.
- [24:24]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, that's interesting. I do think that there's like, if you think about competition amongst the sexes, it's like, I think men are like, they fight with their fists, women, manipulative. So it's like, I think when I speak to other women, they're like, oh, it's hard to find people I can trust. That's always like the. Do I trust women? And I'm like, I look at it the same way as hiring people. It's like, well, if you let one person burn you, you're never going to have a team. If you let one friend burn you, it's like, you're never gonna have friends.
- [24:51]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So how do you evaluate trust? Or how do you, you know, you probably have a lot of people coming to you for a lot of different things.
- [25:00]
Leila Hermozi
I think that trust is, I think, like, if I were to say if, how do I know I can trust somebody? It usually comes from being able to predict their behavior over a long enough time. So I think that the difficulty with trust is that it just takes time. Everyone Says they're like, trust just takes time. Why does it take time? Because if you want to understand somebody and be able to predict their behavior, which makes you feel safe, you have to have had enough time spent around that person or exposed to that person to understand. I know I read a study once on that it takes about 80 hours to form a real friendship with somebody. I was like, well, why is that? I think it's because in order to really trust someone, you have to just see how their behavior plays out over time. So I think about that with people.
- [25:41]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Do you find you're more guarded now than you were in the beginning of business?
- [25:51]
Leila Hermozi
Oddly, no, because I think I was so guarded then. Like, I wouldn't even be able to like be myself talking to you right now. Like, I would be so self conscious. I think I was very insecure. Like me 10 years ago. So insecure.
- [26:09]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I think it's a, I think that's, you know, part of age, right? We all go through that, I suppose.
- [26:15]
Leila Hermozi
And then I think with the insecurity is like, well, if I can't trust this person, will I be able to amend the situation? Can I take care of myself? I could think it was, I trust myself more now. The more I trust myself, I can trust other people. Does that make sense?
- [26:27]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes, it does.
- [26:28]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [26:28]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What do you think people get wrong in business, in life, relationships? Are they different?
- [26:39]
Leila Hermozi
It's interesting because, like, I think I, I definitely feel about instead of like wrong. I think there's trade offs, but I think that there are universal patterns that people try to defy. I would say that one of those would be like, if I could give anybody, like the biggest thing I've learned in my lifetime, which I got to learn by like a very young age, is like, money does not make you happy. Success does not make you happy. I think that people conflate happiness and success and they're such different things. I can feel super happy when I'm not super successful. Like, I can tell you because in business you have good and bad years. Some of my happiest years have been the ones that I've been the least successful in business. Probably also not a coincidence. And I think that, you know, it's funny because I remember somebody told me when I was like 21, and I was like, listen, I'm not going to be. I was like, what do I do with my life? Right? And I was like, they're like, had.
- [27:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You already sold your business at this point?
- [27:31]
Leila Hermozi
I was, no, not at that point. This was when I was 21. So I was young and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, and somebody was like, you could go into physical therapy and you could make $85,000 in year one. And I was just like, that's too slow. And they were like, listen, money isn't gonna make you happy. And I remember literally being like, I'd rather find out for myself.
- [27:51]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You're like, yes, it will.
- [27:52]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, like, I will find out. And I didn't. You know, I say that half heartedly, but, like, they're just different skills. And I think that a lot of times in life, people think that if they succeed more, they're going to be happier. And that's just not the case. And I think that. I think that there's feeling content, there's feeling confident, there's having respect for yourself, there's trusting yourself. Those are all. And those can help with happiness, like, having a solid foundation of, like, feeling like you've got your back. But I. I don't think that the two are related. And I think I know a lot of people who I do not want to be like, that are very successful, like, wildly successful, like, most successful in the world. And they are so miserable.
- [28:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah.
- [28:34]
Leila Hermozi
And I've just told myself I'm like, I'm just not willing to compromise my quality of life to succeed. Like, I'm just. I just don't want to do that. And I think it was like two years ago, I really started thinking about that. I was like, I know my personality, I know myself. I can be very obsessed and fixated and not do these other things that make my life good and build connection and relationships and stuff.
- [28:59]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Have you always valued that relationship connection?
- [29:04]
Leila Hermozi
Always have. Doesn't mean I always prioritized it. Like, I went through a period in the beginning of my first business where I said, the only thing that matters is this. And it was because, like, you know, me and Alex, my partner, husband, we put all our money into it. We had no money. We lost all of our money. Like, we were broke. And I was like, I don't give a. About anybody else. I need to make money. Otherwise I don't have, like, what am I going to do? I'm not going to, like, go back. Like, that would suck. And so I just said, like, I don't really care about friendships. I don't really care about seeing my family right now. I don't care about anything. Like, I need to make this work. And so for that, there was like a three period, three year period where we literally sat and People would be like, hey, do you want to go to dinner? Me and Alex said the same thing. People. We'd be like, we don't do dinner. And they were like, why? And we're like, we just don't do friends right now. And it was like, oh.
- [29:50]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I remember saying, oh, my gosh.
- [29:51]
Leila Hermozi
And then being like, what? And I was like, I just don't even know how to do that. And it was. Because, honestly, like, in the beginning of my business, I was so scared of fucking up and scared of. I felt so much responsibility, you know, by the time I was 23, I had a hundred employees. And I'm like, I've never managed somebody before.
- [30:09]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's bananas.
- [30:10]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. And then I'm like, I gotta figure this out. So it's like every waking moment, all I wanted to do is figure that out, because I took it really seriously. I'm like, listen, all these people paid me all this money to deliver these products and services.
- [30:19]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I'm 23 years old.
- [30:21]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. How.
- [30:22]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
How do you even go through that? That's so accelerated, you know? I mean, you grow up in.
- [30:30]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [30:30]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Business.
- [30:31]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. It was like, the wildest few years of my life, honestly, I think. But the interesting thing is, like, you asked me about fitness in the beginning. Like, I anchored so much to that when I was going through it, because it's like you're going through an identity shift. You're changing your lifestyle. You're learning a completely new skill. It's what you think about all day. Other people see it, and they're talking about it like it's a giant life shift. And so, yeah, it was really, really hard for me, but I also gained so many skills. Like, I wouldn't have traded it for the world, like, the person I was able to become and how much confidence I got as an output of all the things that I did. I think it was such a gift.
- [31:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah. Makes me think a lot about a lot of sacrifice.
- [31:22]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [31:23]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You know, I did my fellowship in geriatrics and nutritional sciences, and I gotta tell you what, I didn't want to. I mean, I was rounding on nursing homes. You're going. You're seeing 30 patients that are going to die a day. And it just was not. It's what I signed up for, but I did it so I could do nutritional sciences. And I just thought, man, just one more day. One more day until the time is complete. And the sacrifice seems to be transformative, and it's. Who's willing to sacrifice to be able to move forward.
- [31:57]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, I agree with That I think I'm so careful to talk about sacrifice because people are like, oh, my God, what are you gonna do? Sacrifice your whole life for this thing? And I think what you just said is exactly what I tell people, which is, it's not forever, but in every season. It's like, you think about life as, like a wheel. You probably see this with people, with help. It's like you have to. There's the constraint. What's the constraint of your life? Right? And then to move forward in that area, that constraint, you almost have to put the rest on autopilot. Say, I'm gonna sacrifice growing these other areas to grow this one area. Raise the thermometer, like the set level there, and then I'll probably move to the next one. I think about that because, like, a lot of entrepreneurs you meet with, I'm sure it's like they've done the business and they've maxed out, but it's like now the constraint of even their business is their health because they can't function properly because they don't have their health always. And that's. I mean, yeah, you see, it's like. Even think about, like, Brian Johnson, right? It's like he went and did all the business and then he's like, dude, my health sucks. It's like, it's such a common thing. So I think about it like, you're sacrificing right now. This doesn't mean forever. And I think that's really important context for people because if you tell somebody, like, forever, you're gonna have to put this much mental energy into this thing. It sounds very overwhelming. And they say, I don't wanna do that. I'm not gonna make that sacrifice. But if you said, what if you only had to do it for 14 months and then it's gonna become normal, you're gonna have built habits, it's gonna feel automatic, and you're able to think about other things to have headspace.
- [33:21]
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- [34:59]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, that's actually a really good point because things are hard in the beginning and then after two years you level up and it's not even though the original feeling of sacrifice, it, it evolves 100%.
- [35:15]
Leila Hermozi
And I think it's the, it's almost like the mental energy of these things more than it is even the time. It's like when you know it's a problem and you're trying to fix it and you're sacrificing these things. Like it takes a lot of mental bandwidth. So it's one thing that I think about a lot. But I mean, you know, like I, I talk to people and they're like, you know, I want to follow on your path and I want to do what you did. And I'm like, okay, well then you'd have to sacrifice what I would did, which like, I'm not even able to tell you if that was the right trade off or not. I don't know because I can't have lived my other life that I could have had. Like, I didn't have kids when I was young and now if I want to have kids, like it's going to be a lot harder, you know, because I'm older now and that's a real sacrifice I could work the rest of my life. I can't have kids the rest of my life. And I tell women now and I talk to them like that's a real thing that I kind of wish somebody had said to me because if they were like, hey, just do it now and get it over with and then you, you know, whatever, it's like I might have done that and maybe it would have worked out better, I don't know.
- [36:06]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But I have two if you want to borrow them, you might change your mind real fast.
- [36:11]
Leila Hermozi
You're like, no, you're good, you got out. No, just kidding.
- [36:15]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But as the years go on and you've achieved all this success, the same stressors, they don't exist in the same way. Right? Is that fair to say?
- [36:24]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. No, no, no, I don't think so. I think it. It just is a new level. You get to another level and then you have a new stressor of something different for the most part, but you have more skills to pull from.
- [36:33]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
How long do you think those levels last? Two years, five years? You know what I'm talking about?
- [36:40]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, I do.
- [36:41]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You know, you seem to jump or everybody, not you in particular, but there's the beginner phase and then there's the next business or the next accomplishment.
- [36:50]
Leila Hermozi
I think it's more about exposure than it is time. And I think I say that because of my first experience with business growing so quickly. Like, if people are like, what's the level? It's like, okay, maybe right now the level's like, you have to get over like fear of public speaking and being in camera and whatever. Okay, well, if you speak once every two weeks, it's going to take you two years to get to the next level. But if you speak every day, every other day, once a week, it's like if you expose yourself to it more, I think that you can get to the next level faster. It's like, whenever I find something in my life that I realize that's stressing me out, I'm like, how can I stress myself out more?
- [37:26]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's. Wait, you have to pause there because that's really good advice. That's really good advice. Yeah, I'll take it. Increase cortisol. Yes. No. Just kidding. But everybody thinks self care is leaning into the softer thing in that way. It's not.
- [37:42]
Leila Hermozi
No.
- [37:42]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So say that again because I don't think I've ever heard someone verbalize that.
- [37:47]
Leila Hermozi
It's hard to. Yeah, I don't verbalize it because it sounds bad when it comes out, but like, you have to stress yourself out more in the short term to get to the other side faster. So like something I talk about a lot with people, I had like a quote that went viral is like, fear is a mile wide and inch deep. It's like the moment you step into the thing that's been freaking you out, stressing you out, et cetera. It gets easier. You realize it was. It's not an ocean, it's a puddle. And it's like, okay, I've just gotta, like, jump through the puddle a little bit to get to the other side. But it's that most people have one experience, and then they say, oh, I don't wanna touch that. And then they're like, ah. And it becomes this thing in their life that, like, they have to circumvent around everything they do from this thing that they're scared of or that stresses them out. When in reality, if you had said, I'm gonna do this thing, actually, I'm gonna actually every day for two weeks expose myself to this thing that stresses me out. By the end of two weeks, not only will you most likely not be stressed about it, you might actually like it. You know, I mean, I think about that. I'm like, I used to be so, so stressed. I remember, like, I made a podcast cover. I made a YouTube channel. I did all these things. I would get in front of the camera. It was like, you know, and like, mind you, I would speak in front of a hundred employees. I had live with, like, no scripting and loved it. But, like, I'd be in front of the camera and be like. Like, I just.
- [39:00]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
My armpits are running.
- [39:01]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. Yeah. And. And then I realized I was like, okay, I'm gonna commit to doing this content thing, and I'm gonna do every week this many times a week, and I'm not. I'm just gonna commit to it. I'm not gonna stop. And it's like, I got over the initial hump so quickly. The more I did it. Like, I remember I did in one quarter, I did, like. I can't remember how many speaking engagements it was. I'd never do them anymore. Right. Um. Because one, they don't stress me out anymore. Two, I don't like traveling that much, so I don't like doing it. But, like, I did so many in that quarter, and I remember by the end of the quarter, I was like, oh, I like doing this. I could keep doing this. And I was like, oh, wait, no, I don't.
- [39:33]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's too easy.
- [39:34]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. And then I was like, wow, I took something that I was so scared of that's caused so much stress in my life, and now I actually, like, like it. So I think it's just, like, it is so much easier to condition ourselves than we think. It's almost like. I mean, you probably see this in medicine, but it's like someone's Intolerant to a food. Start with a tablespoon every day for a week, and then two tablespoons and three. And all of a sudden, something that you were intolerant to, now you're, like, completely fine with and you actually crave. It's like, I've had that with foods as well. So it's like, I think about the same with anything in life. It's just. I think the hardest part is the first step, because we all want to not feel the stress or the fear or the anxiety in order to take that first step. We're like, no, no, no. I have to solve the feeling before I go do the thing.
- [40:19]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But it's, you know, that doesn't work. No, Yeah, I think that's. I mean, that's really wise advice. I hope people really hear that. And the other thing is, we don't hear that a lot from women. And whether it's a man or a woman doesn't really matter. But I do think that there is something to be said for that to lean into the harder thing. You know, there's this idea of stoicism, right?
- [40:45]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [40:46]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And, you know, when I think about stoicism, they got a lot, right. It's very neutral. But the part they missed is kind of the connection and being able to feel and be together with family. And what is. You know, it's not just all about, you know, go hard or go home.
- [41:02]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, that's tough. I think that. Well, I'll speak freely. I think that a lot of women, at least, like, what I have thrown up in is like, we have to prove ourselves to be, like, we are strong and we are. We are. We can do it, too. Right? That was, like a slogan, however long ago. Like, what was it like? Anything a man can do, I can do better. Is that it? Yeah, but there are things, like. That leans you very far in this one direction. And I think it's. We're at this weird point right now, at least I see it in, like, the very few times I'm on social media, and often people just ask me about these things. It's like, you've got women that are super hard. Boss, babe. Women that are super hard. Like, trad wife. Right? That's what they call it.
- [41:47]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What is it called?
- [41:47]
Leila Hermozi
Trad wife.
- [41:48]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Trad wife.
- [41:49]
Leila Hermozi
Traditional wife.
- [41:49]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I gotta get one of those.
- [41:50]
Leila Hermozi
I literally said that. I was like, I want one of those. I want one of those. And it's. It's almost like this. And I think it's not just. It's probably not Just for women. It's probably for men too, but I think they have less social. They're not really acceptable of being super soft in society as much. But I think stoicism also became cool in the last decade because it also goes in that direction. But there's so many things that I think, like, we are naturally inclined to do and do as women that help this side, that come from this side. Like, if we can learn to foster relationships, connect with people, have empathy, listen, support people, encourage people. Like, create safe spaces for people. Like, it can't supercharge this other side. But I feel like at least so many women I speak to, it's like they're now so afraid to show this side of themselves because they feel like now what's cool is to just be like, this complete. That's, like, stoic and doesn't cry and has no emotion and this and that. So it's really interesting to see all that.
- [42:48]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah.
- [42:48]
Leila Hermozi
And I think it takes a toll on people. Cause it's like you're trying to be one or the other. It's like, just be yourself. Which is like, humans are dynamic creatures and we change all the time.
- [42:55]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah. The social media thing is really tough.
- [42:57]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [42:59]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Because it shows a side of human. Human nature, but I think it also brings out the worst in people.
- [43:05]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. Well, you probably see it a lot, too, especially, like, in health. I feel like that's.
- [43:09]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes.
- [43:10]
Leila Hermozi
So polarizing.
- [43:11]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes.
- [43:11]
Leila Hermozi
I mean, but like, you, You. You know, I see you post and you're like, you're working out, you're pushing heavy weights, you're doing. But then you've got your kids with you, and you're like, come on, buddy. Leon, I. Just.
- [43:19]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Let me wave your butt.
- [43:20]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, exactly. And it's like, you know, figuring that out has, I'm sure, not been easy for you, because it's like a different energy at times that you have to bring to the situation.
- [43:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah. I don't know. I. I try to be as. At least for me, as transparent as possible.
- [43:34]
Leila Hermozi
What people.
- [43:35]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Most people don't know is that I'm actually hilarious.
- [43:37]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [43:38]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Just kidding. But, yeah, just ask Emily. I try to be as transparent.
- [43:43]
Leila Hermozi
I get that every talk.
- [43:45]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But also, I'm not on social media.
- [43:47]
Leila Hermozi
I'll.
- [43:48]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I have a great team that helps me. So that way, I'm not thinking about what I should be doing. I'm just very much. This is what you see is what you get. I swear a lot more than I do on camera or in my podcast. That is true. And I'm not Nearly as good of a cook. But other than that, I try to be as. Because then it feels very inauthentic and I.
- [44:12]
Leila Hermozi
You wouldn't want to do it well.
- [44:13]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But I feel as if there's two reasons why people do things. And maybe this is too much of a black and white statement, but either it's really in the service of others.
- [44:23]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [44:23]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Or it's in the service of themselves. And there's probably this bi directional relationship because when I am doing and being of service, it makes me feel better.
- [44:36]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [44:37]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But the primary goal isn't for it to be about me and it never has been. And my husband's the same way. He is a, you know, he's a veteran. He's a surgical resident working 100 hours a week. It's about being of service. And so then the other side is it's about me, me, me. And then I think that the social media landscape doesn't differentiate between the two. We don't know. And I think that part is challenging.
- [45:06]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, that is true. And you can't really tell on social media much. I mean, like, I've met so many people that then I see their social media, I'm like, ugh. And I meet them in real life and I'm like, okay, you're awesome. Or I'll see them on social media and I'm like, oh, they seem amazing. I meet them like, oh, my God, you're awful. You know, it's so hard to know anything nowadays. And I. I mean, I feel grateful I didn't grow up like, you know, blue to a screen. That would be tough.
- [45:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But yeah. Do you limit your time on social media and try to have more in person interactions?
- [45:38]
Leila Hermozi
I actually feel like, because we have like this office and all these people, like, I actually try to get on social media. I have to try to get on it, which I actually like because I like if I looked at my phone usage, like, the. What I am glued to on my screen is my slack. For sure. Like, we use slack to communicate with the team. Like, it's like the most hours on my phone used.
- [45:58]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So if you guys are not on there, you're totally fired.
- [46:00]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, everyone's on slack for sure. Um, so I haven't had a hard time with the social media usage, but I see it in like almost every. But that's like a forcing function. Like, I'm sure if I was not in the office doing things. Yeah.
- [46:16]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
How would you be spending your time?
- [46:18]
Leila Hermozi
Reading.
- [46:20]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And what are you reading? Oh, I love that.
- [46:22]
Leila Hermozi
Cooking. Yeah. I like doing Those three things, for sure.
- [46:26]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What kind of stuff do you read?
- [46:28]
Leila Hermozi
I read a lot more about psychology, human behavior. Like, that's pretty much all I read, actually.
- [46:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Anything recently? Good, Interesting.
- [46:43]
Leila Hermozi
No, I think I've been interested in this, like, reading more about the evolution of men and women and how we've gotten to kind of where we are today. Because I see so much about it in culture. That's what people call it. Right. And I think it's really interesting because I, like, you said something earlier where it's like, you feel responsible to a degree to do I feel responsible as a woman in business who has a brand to understand if my influence is positively or negatively affecting people. And that actually will keep me up at night. And so understanding how I've gotten to where I am and then what's happening in culture right now, I see a lot of people unhappy because they're single. So many people are single now. And I think about that. I don't understand. When I was dating, it was like, it was just different. It wasn't this, like, nobody can find a mate thing.
- [47:35]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, that is true.
- [47:35]
Leila Hermozi
And I see that, and that seems.
- [47:38]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Do we know that to be true? I mean, is that what the statistics say, that people are struggling? Or is it maybe the people that you are exposed to that are in business wanting to do other things?
- [47:47]
Leila Hermozi
It's interesting. That is, like, I've seen it both one way or the other, which is like, you know, I've seen stats saying that the birth rates are declining. Then you see stats saying they're going up. I don't know, but I do hear a lot of it. I have so many women that reach out to me, and they're like, I cannot find a man. I don't understand why. I have so many men that reach out to me. They're like, how do I find a wife like you? Like, literally, those are the questions I get. And so I'm like, what is going on? And literally, I'll do it. Ask me anything. I'm like, why are people asking me about this? But it's probably because I'm married and in business.
- [48:15]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
How long have you guys been married?
- [48:17]
Leila Hermozi
Almost 10 years.
- [48:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Okay. Do you think there's something special to do to maintain a relationship with two extremely high achievers?
- [48:34]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, it's hard. Um, it took a ton of work in the beginning, and as you change as people, it takes a ton of work as you change. Like, I even think in the last two, three years, like, we've definitely both changed a lot as people, and we like joke about how this is like our second marriage with each other. It's funny. Like literally recently, it's like a thing. Um, and so it takes like almost like when we've been going on dates, I'm like, literally look at my husband and I'm like, he's a new person now. Like, I have to like go in with, like, ask him questions as you would if you didn't know this person. Because people change and you just make assumptions. And I also don't want to be the reason that anyone I'm with remains the same as they are rather than growing into who they want to be. And I think you can keep people there with what you reinforce, how you label them, how you treat them because of things they want to, that they used to want to be. And I think in order to keep a marriage, I mean, like, you can probably relate to this. Like, you have to keep one. I think it's really hard if you both don't grow. If you both aren't growing, that's hard. Because what is there to talk about? The second piece is that I think you have to be curious enough to get to know the person all over again when they are changing and then say, great, now let's talk about how do we be married? If that's how you say it to this new version of each other. I mean, have. What have you experienced with your husband?
- [49:55]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So, you know, my husband is a little bit of an enigma. He's actually. They're probably pretty similar.
- [50:02]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [50:03]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So he was a SEAL for 10 years.
- [50:04]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [50:05]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And while he was deployed, he taught himself physics and calculus at war to then come back and teach trauma to special warfare and then went to medical school and now he's a surgical resident. The joke is he went from working with dicks to now treating dicks because he's a urologist, which is so funny. But he is a professional teammate, so he's all about the team.
- [50:28]
Leila Hermozi
Oh yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
- [50:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He's all. He's like, what are you doing? Wanna hang out? What are you doing? I'm like, I already spent an entire day with Go. And so it's really cute.
- [50:38]
Leila Hermozi
I love that.
- [50:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But I will say, I was thinking about what you were saying in terms of the beginning of business. She's working a hundred hours a week. The responsibility of the family is 100% on me. I run the businesses, I take care of the kids. I do not outsource all my childcare. I have part time help by design. I'm taking care of all of it. So the challenge is, from my perspective, just speaking also freely. My husband does listen to this podcast.
- [51:08]
Leila Hermozi
Hi, honey.
- [51:08]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I'm sorry. What I'm about to say. Resentment can build up. He is working. And I promised very early on that I was gonna support the family and him. He served our country, put his life in danger to protect us. He can do whatever the he wants.
- [51:25]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [51:27]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And that. And as I made that promise, we're now four, five, six, seven years later of him working these hours. At least he's not deployed. But it's a lot of responsibility when you're like, hey, can you please pick up the kids? I've picked up the kids for the last five months straight. Can you do it?
- [51:44]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. I mean, and it's not possible.
- [51:47]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Cause he's in surgery or doing whatever he's doing, sleeping in his car.
- [51:51]
Leila Hermozi
Which is probably why the joke about getting a wife.
- [51:52]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, totally. I'll take one. Hey, if you guys are looking, you can apply.
- [51:56]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, I mean, I. I get it. Cause even when. When me and Alex got together, we don't have kids. But, you know, we looked at, like, the house responsibilities, and he was just like, these things are not important to me. Like, I just honestly don't do. Like, I. When we met, he didn't do anything. He would not do laundry to the degree. He would just buy new clothes when they were dirty.
- [52:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Oh, God, that must have smelled really bad.
- [52:14]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah. So. And so I said. I was like, listen, I just want to make this easy. I will do take care of all house stuff. That doesn't mean I will be doing it, but I will take care of it. And I will also take care of all the food stuff. And it's been 10 years. And, like, there. I mean, we'll get to points where I'm like, listen, I can't cook. Like, I got. I'm not cooking anymore. And then, you know, then I go back. Cause, like, I love cooking, I love baking, but not when I'm, like, so busy.
- [52:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And that's the problem. Right? As you're growing a business, your stress increases. What worked in a relationship early on, you know, I made these commitments. I'm gonna take care of everything now. I'm gonna release my second book. I have a third book coming out, which I'm, you know, interviewing you for, which is all about women. And I wasn't the same person. The stresses weren't the same. The responsibilities.
- [53:04]
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
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- [54:18]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [54:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Are not the same. And so there's this kind of dance where you get more skills, like you said, but also you have to be able to look at yourself and then evolve those parts, if that makes any sense whatsoever.
- [54:31]
Leila Hermozi
Oh, it's almost like you have to renegotiate the terms of the relationship.
- [54:35]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's right.
- [54:35]
Leila Hermozi
I mean, it's like a business. It's like, listen, we both your partners and I look at it like, you know, because we have the conversation. I'm like, listen, every time we've had one of these, it's like, we're partners in business. We're also partners in life. Like, we negotiate our terms.
- [54:46]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I'm like, dude, you're broke. So, right. You put in the sweat equity, I'll put in the money.
- [54:51]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [54:51]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's terrible, but true.
- [54:53]
Leila Hermozi
It's funny though. But I, I do think that that is like the, the premise of it. It's like everyone goes into a relationship thinking like, this is how it's. It's. It is not. It's not going to be that way forever. You will change so much. They will change so much. And, and those things change. And like, I mean, I, I've been very honest with Alex and I've been like, oh, my God, I, I think that I cannot do this and do this. And he's like, great. So, like, let's just talk about how, you know, and I think it's being open with your partner about what you have to give, you know, and then, you know, it's interesting for me is because, like, I recently was like, I actually miss doing some things like baking and cooking, et cetera. Because, like, I actually went to culinary school. I wanted to do that for a little. You did. I did. And so that's amazing. Yeah. So for me, it's like a creative outlet, but then. So I'll do it. And then he'll be like, this is amazing. I'm like, don't. P.S. it's not an expectation. Like, I just do it when I have time. It's like. Like, I literally can think freely when I'm doing those things. It's like, your hands are busy. It's a great time. And so it's interesting because it changes so much throughout the relationship. I think. I think people just expect now. I think a difficult part is, like, now, especially with women having more responsibilities and expectations of themselves and dreams and goals than ever. You have to be more communicative with your partner.
- [56:09]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah.
- [56:10]
Leila Hermozi
And we have to say, like, I. I do see a lot of women that I know, and they've been like, why won't he listen or talk to me? Like, I want him to just, like, be my emotional support almost. And I'm like, men, for so long, that has not been their. Their value in a lot of. Relate. Like, a lot of. There are plenty of men who are. But there's also, like, what is innately. Like, they're telling.
- [56:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Absolutely.
- [56:35]
Leila Hermozi
And so I've had to have these conversations. I'm like, he's. He's not your girlfriend.
- [56:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah.
- [56:40]
Leila Hermozi
And I literally had that conversation. I was like, that's what you. I talk to girls about those things. I talk to my girlfriends about those things. It's like. But that. I don't expect to get that same level of connection with my husband when I'm talking about these things. And so I do feel lucky. I learned that early on because I see that being a huge, I would say, demand that women have on men right now. That I feel is some men have it to get for sure.
- [57:03]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Not the ones I know. So. Okay.
- [57:05]
Leila Hermozi
Right. But. But I'm just. Some do.
- [57:07]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I'm like, honey, I. I'm really pissed about. She's like, you wanna talk about him with you? Absolutely not.
- [57:11]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, no, I have no interest.
- [57:13]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Cause yeah, he's gonna give me the one the same. He's like, did you. No matter what I say.
- [57:17]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [57:17]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
His answer will be like, well, did you break our family rule?
- [57:21]
Leila Hermozi
What's that?
- [57:21]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Well, I'm gonna say it, but, team, you gotta beat this out. It's. Are you being a Or don't be a. And then rule number two is don't it up.
- [57:31]
Leila Hermozi
That's funny.
- [57:31]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's it. Don't be a.
- [57:33]
Leila Hermozi
And you're like, great. Good talk.
- [57:35]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Anyway, I'm like, honey, oh, my God, I had to fire this person. And, you know, I don't know what we're going to do. And.
- [57:41]
Leila Hermozi
And.
- [57:41]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And I got to work on this book because they sent a deal in and I've got to try to do this merger acquisition with the part of the business. And he's like, okay, well, did you break rule number one? And I'm like, oh, my. My dad, he's got a mullen. Like, whatever it is. And I'm like, what? He's like, are you gonna. I was like, oh, my God, I'm never asking you. And then he's so upset every time where I'm like, hey, dude, I don't wanna talk to you. I'm gonna call someone else.
- [58:07]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, you just know. You're like, this is not for you.
- [58:09]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I already know what the answer's gonna be.
- [58:11]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, a hundred percent. You're like, it's funny. My husband, like, you wanna talk about that? I'm like, no, I'm gonna talk to somebody else about this one. Yeah, he's like, cool. Works for me. He's.
- [58:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Good talk, good talk. So mine isn't. His feelings are very hurt, but, you know, he'll evolve.
- [58:22]
Leila Hermozi
He'll evolve.
- [58:23]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He'll get responsibly, and then he'll be like, honey, I want to talk to you about this thing. He's like, this thing happened at work and I was operating. I'm like, huh? Oh, like, are you being a P or what? He's like, yeah, I am.
- [58:35]
Leila Hermozi
Good talk. And that's it. Because that's what he wants you to do.
- [58:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I totally. I'm like, I'm so glad that I just gave you what you needed. This is going to work out.
- [58:43]
Leila Hermozi
This was so easy.
- [58:44]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Totally, totally.
- [58:45]
Leila Hermozi
That's great.
- [58:46]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What do you think people do wrong? So for the women, maybe not even. So in the relationship, the one thing is perhaps not having the expectation that they're going to be your girlfriend. Which I totally agree with. Also, my husband smells way too bad to be a female. I'm like, dude, what is that smell?
- [59:04]
Leila Hermozi
Like yesterday, I feel like that is not good.
- [59:05]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He's like, my laundry. Oh, my God.
- [59:07]
Leila Hermozi
Well, like, did you wear deodorant today?
- [59:09]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, today we have to fumigate everything.
- [59:12]
Leila Hermozi
Fumigate.
- [59:13]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's disgusting.
- [59:13]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [59:14]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So he runs to work, rain or shine.
- [59:16]
Leila Hermozi
Oh, and then doesn't shower and no.
- [59:19]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
In his clo. And then runs home and the clothes are there. It's disgusting. But you know, when I think about the one thing and I watched a video that you had put out and it was what it was. I mean I've watched a handful as I prepared for this. But there was this one. It was like, you know, this is the mistake that everyone is making. It was, you know, you don't. What was it deserve? Hold on, I have a note here because this is.
- [59:44]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah, yeah, go for it.
- [59:45]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
This was the one thing that it was. Oh, belief. What most people get wrong. Belief in themselves.
- [59:54]
Leila Hermozi
About belief.
- [59:55]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah.
- [59:55]
Leila Hermozi
Oh, the thing that most people get wrong about belief is that it is a self belief. Yeah. Is that it is a. They think it's an input, not an output. So they think in order to do something I must have self belief. But you have to do the thing to have the self belief. So I think it's like everyone's like, I'm not ready, I'm not confident, I'm not this. I'm not input. Therefore I can't, you know, do this thing. But it's like it's not the input, it's actually the output of people.
- [60:24]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But what if you fail at it? What if, say, for example, you believe that you can run a business and not you, but maybe and then you just can't. Do you think, is that a possibility? Is failure a possibility?
- [60:39]
Leila Hermozi
Failure is data. I don't understand. I like actually don't. I do not think failure is a bad thing. I think people have a bad relationship with failure. They look at it like it means something about them. They look at it like it's a bad thing. Every time you fail, you are that much closer to success. I really do believe that innately in my blood there has been nothing that I have succeeded at that I have not failed at first.
- [61:01]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
How did you get good at that? The way that you are talking and thinking is very. It's just very well thought out. You know, it is. It's a lot of introspection.
- [61:12]
Leila Hermozi
I think it's being able to be the scientist, not the judge. So it's like the judge, the internal judge is like, you suck, you're awful, you're. You failed. That's because you are not good at this thing. You are bad at this. You should do that. Like it's constantly building a narrative around why this failure means something about you. Whereas the scientist is like, let me look at all the conditions. Did we do this, did we do that? Were we missing information? Did we do this piece wrong? Like it's looking for the evidence to find out why the thing failed. Not building a narrative around why you are the reason why it failed.
- [61:52]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Do you catch yourself in self talk? Do you think that that's important?
- [61:58]
Leila Hermozi
I do. I used to be really, really bad at it. Like meaning I would be able to do things, but I did beat myself up a lot for them. And I think that over time I've been able to catch myself. So I don't smart beat myself up over things. And I practice. Like people think that you're just gonna have new thoughts. You have to practice belief. You have to practice new thoughts. It's not just going to come innately. And so for me it's like, how do I practice this belief? I would do these things to reinforce the belief. I would say these things to reinforce the belief. Like I, for example. I'll give you one example of that. I used to be really bad at saying no. And so I always thought that I was like a pushover. People got to walk all over me. I was like a doormat doorstep. And I finally started saying, okay, what would I have to do and how would I have to act to really believe that I was not a person that could be walked all over? Okay, well, I would say no more. I wouldn't apologize for it. I wouldn't over explain. And I remember when I started doing that, I'd be like, no, can't do that. It would feel so uncomfortable. But after doing it a few times, I was like, wow, I'm the kind of person who says no and now ask people, they're probably like, dude, she's the queen of saying no. My husband's like, you've been the opposite now. Right. Because you reinforce this belief in the other way. But it wasn't like the feelings and thoughts and belief was there before I did it. I just started doing it. And the action reinforced the thoughts and belief. And then eventually I started having the thoughts and beliefs. Like I am the type of person that is able to say no and hold my boundaries, but it came out of my mouth and through my actions before it came into my head.
- [63:47]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And you just interpret the feeling differently. So when you say when you said no the first hundred times, probably not a hundred fourteen.
- [63:57]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [63:57]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You're like, oh God, I can't believe I did that.
- [63:59]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [64:00]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And then maybe you wouldn't have the feeling or you didn't respond the same way to that physical sensation.
- [64:07]
Leila Hermozi
A hundred percent. I Think that oftentimes it's not that the discomfort, the anxiety is ever going to go away, but we change our relationship to it.
- [64:14]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Do you think it doesn't go away? I think some of it, I think.
- [64:16]
Leila Hermozi
You can train a lot of it out, but I think it's not like anybody lives with zero anxiety or discomfort. You know what I mean? Like there's going to be a new stressors situation or something. Right. And so I just think like I might now in a situation where I go to walk on stage instead of being like, I'm so terrified, I'd be like, I'm so excited. I think I've changed my relationship. Like there's going to be adrenaline and cortisol because there's a huge room of people shouting. But I don't look at it like, oh, it's going to shut me down and I'm going to, you know, fail. I look at it like it's lighting me up and I'm going to have more energy.
- [64:43]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So the butterflies are in attack formation. Yeah, I love it.
- [64:47]
Leila Hermozi
Yeah.
- [64:49]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What is next on your radar?
- [64:55]
Leila Hermozi
Expansion for my company. So building a bigger footprint across the country is like super top of mind for me right now for 2026 in terms of how we're going to expand as a company. I would say second to that is I have just hired, you know, six executives in the last quarter and so my role is going to change going to 2026. I'm going to uplevel and have like a completely new focus. Just so I'm completely vision strategy, building out like our operating model with our Holdco and operating companies and then going with that, I would say, like on a personal side is leaning more into, I would say, skills that have atrophied as I built out, like the very disciplined side of myself. I think I learned a lot about myself this year going through like, I mean, you know, I reached out to you, I was like dealing with health issues and that has. I don't need to learn a lesson twice.
- [66:02]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Smart, pretty smart.
- [66:04]
Leila Hermozi
I recognize, like where I can put in systems now to make sure that I can keep going. And so for me it's about like, how do I stay in the game, how do I continue to build a life and do a thing that I love and not sacrifice my quality of life along the way. And so I've had a huge focus on health, on building more time and space into my schedule so that I can now do bigger things for the business that are more, I would say, like longer term thinking because it requires that of me now. And I think those two things actually go hand in hand.
- [66:33]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It sounds like they do, yeah. Do you think, and I hear this a lot. People are always striving to make it. Do you feel like you've made it?
- [66:51]
Leila Hermozi
Um, like, yes and no. So I would say no from a business standpoint, no. From a personal standpoint, I don't feel like I've made it. But I am really proud of how far I've come.
- [67:09]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Do you think you'll ever feel like you've made it?
- [67:11]
Leila Hermozi
No, I don't think we ever do. I think we die feeling like we haven't made it. I don't think it goes away. And I think I try really hard now, as in my second business. I made this promise myself. I'm like, I'm going to try really hard to acknowledge my accomplishments and give myself a pat on the back, like, you're doing good. I. I will continue to do what I do, no matter what. Me being nicer to myself doesn't make me go any less hard, but it does make it feel a lot better along the way.
- [67:38]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I can absolutely attest to that. When you have a family, do you think you'll let your kids go into business?
- [67:44]
Leila Hermozi
I would hope that they come into business. And hopefully with me, I would love that.
- [67:48]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Listen, I'm hoping my kid becomes an astronaut, but I'll take going into business. Leila Hermozi, thank you so much for coming on the show.
- [67:56]
Leila Hermozi
Oh, thanks for having me. It was awesome.
- [67:57]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So fun.