Am I Spending Too Much Time Indoors? Signs It’s Draining Your Energy | EP 398

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Dr. Gundry Podcast

Episode 398: Am I Spending Too Much Time Indoors? Signs It’s Draining Your Energy

Date: April 7, 2026
Guests: Dr. Steven Gundry (host), Dr. John La Puma (guest)
Topic: The health risks of excessive indoor living and strategies for reclaiming well-being through intentional outdoor exposure.

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Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode dives into the “indoor epidemic,” a term coined by Dr. John La Puma in his latest book. Dr. La Puma and Dr. Gundry discuss how modern lifestyles—marked by constant indoor living, exposure to artificial lighting, poor air quality, and digital overstimulation—are undermining physical and mental health. The conversation highlights actionable strategies to counteract these issues, especially using intentional time spent outdoors as a form of medicine.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Shift Indoors and Its Biological Impacts

• Our Modern Predicament

  • Humans evolved outdoors; in a single generation, living almost entirely inside became the norm ([02:40]).
  • COVID-19 accelerated the “screen-centered” life, intensifying time spent indoors.

• Consequences of Indoor Living

  • Links to insomnia, attention fatigue, cognitive deficits, chronic fatigue, obesity, immune system problems, myopia, and loneliness ([02:40], [04:30])
  • 93% of the modern lifestyle is spent indoors: 86% in buildings, 7% in vehicles—leaving only 7% outdoors, and most of that incidental ([03:44]).

• Quote:

  “What most people don't realize is that that move indoors has dramatic biologic consequences. It causes or contributes to insomnia, immune deficits, insulin deficiency... and these aren't subtle.” – Dr. John La Puma ([02:40])

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2. Digital Obesity and Overexposure to Screens

• Concept of Digital Obesity
  • Overexposure to pixels and screens creates “digital obesity”—akin to how excess sugar harms metabolism, excess screen time overloads the brain ([04:37]).
  • Blue light at night reduces melatonin secretion, delaying sleep ([04:37]).
• Quote:

  “Too many pixels burn out your brain... your brain actually can't metabolize it.” – Dr. John La Puma ([04:37])

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3. Light Exposure: Morning Power and Nighttime Hazards

• Blue Light: Friend and Foe

  • Morning light is essential—outdoor light is 25-50x brighter than indoor, giving a healthy morning cortisol boost and setting up proper melatonin production for quality sleep ([06:14]).
  • Blue light exposure at night impairs melatonin, harms deep sleep, and disrupts brain and body repair ([06:49]).
  • Practical advice: “Light first, coffee second.” ([06:14])

• Dealing with Circadian Disruption

  • Daylight Savings Time disrupts circadian rhythms and increases heart attack risk by 20% the Monday after the shift ([09:09]).
  • If you rise before sunrise or live in the north/city, use a light therapy lamp, but aim to get real daylight when possible. All you need is a “sky view” ([10:46]).

• Quotes:

  “Blue light is essential in the morning when we go outside... you get a big cortisol boost, which we want.” – Dr. John La Puma ([06:14])

  “The easiest prescription is to get morning light within an hour of waking.” – Dr. John La Puma ([06:14])

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4. Environmental Quality: Air, Green, and Blue Spaces

• Indoor Air Quality Risks

  • Trapped, stale air indoors can be toxic—due to particulate matter, VOCs (from carpets, paints, scents), molds, and artificial chemicals ([14:37], [15:14]).

  • Purification is vital indoors; outdoor air is almost always better except near severe pollution ([27:14]).

  • Quote:

    "Inside, air purification is real medicine. Outside, you're fixing more than one variable." – Dr. John La Puma ([15:14])

• Benefits of Green and Blue Spaces

  • Just 17 minutes/day in intentional outdoor settings (green space—near trees, or blue—near water) measurably lowers stress, inflammation, and improves cognitive/mood markers ([15:14]).

  • Even being near green spaces passively increases longevity ([15:14]).

  • City Dwellers: Outdoor air is still typically better than indoor, due to vast dilution of pollutants ([27:25]).

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5. The Power of Gardening and Nature Contact

• Gardening: Functional Medicine

  • Gardening is linked to a 37% reduction in lifelong dementia, improved immune function, and greater consumption of fruits/veggies ([17:55]).
  • You don’t need a big plot—grow herbs on a window sill ([20:33]).

• Quote:

  “Gardeners have 37% less dementia, lifelong gardeners, than non gardeners.” – Dr. John La Puma ([17:55])

• Nature is close: “Nature is as close as the breeze ruffling your curtains... or the lettuce in your salad.” ([20:33])

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6. Social & Emotional Dimensions

• Loneliness and Social Interaction

  • Outdoor time, companion animals (dogs), and social engagement in nature improve longevity, reduce isolation, and support telomere (chromosome end cap) health ([34:22]).

  • Quote:

    “Nature is social... it makes you feel not so alone, allows you to connect with other people. That’s a good thing for your telomeres.” – Dr. John La Puma ([34:22])

  • “Loneliness... is worth three quarters of a pack of cigarettes a day.” – Dr. John La Puma, quoting Dr. Murthy ([34:22])

• Dog Prescription

  • Dr. Gundry prescribes dogs to patients, as they force morning/evening outdoor routines and encourage social interaction ([32:53]).

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7. Environmental Toxins: VOCs and Indoor Products

• VOCs in Cleaning and Home Products
  • Many cleaning products and fragrances contain harmful VOCs and phthalates—opt for unscented, non-VOC items ([37:47]).
  • Indoor environments without ventilation or plant life can trap these toxins, affecting immunity and hormonal health ([38:23]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Indoor Norms:

  “We evolved 200,000 years ago, largely outdoors. And in just one generation we’ve moved indoors and we’ve not left.” – Dr. John La Puma ([02:40])

• On Digital Obesity:

  “Too many pixels burn out your brain.” – Dr. John La Puma ([04:37])

• On Sleep & Light:

  “Light first, coffee second... you get a big cortisol response in the morning. That wakes you up.” – Dr. John La Puma ([06:14])

• On Minimum Outdoor Dose:

  “The minimum effective dose of being outdoors is only 17 minutes a day.” – Dr. John La Puma ([15:14])

• On Gardening Impact:

  “Gardeners have 37% less dementia, lifelong gardeners, than non gardeners.” – Dr. John La Puma ([17:55])

• On Nature and Community:

  “It’s a prescription that... doesn’t have a copay. There are no side effects. It doesn’t take more time because you’re just repurposing incidental time.” – Dr. John La Puma ([34:22])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 02:10–04:30 | The “indoor epidemic” and effects of excessive indoor living | | 04:30–06:05 | Digital obesity and blue light’s effects on health | | 06:05–08:30 | Importance of morning light & resetting circadian rhythm | | 09:09–10:56 | Coping with daylight savings and urban/northern environments | | 14:07–15:14 | Indoor air problems and air purification | | 15:14–17:44 | Power of outdoor time, green/blue spaces, and the 17-minute dose | | 17:44–21:03 | Gardening as medicine and entry points for everyone | | 22:07–24:09 | Carbon dioxide, office air, and cognitive decline | | 27:14–30:08 | Outdoor air vs. indoor air—even in cities, plus sleep consistency | | 32:53–34:22 | The ‘dog prescription’ and nature as a social force | | 37:47–38:23 | VOCs, cleaning products, and avoiding toxins in the home |

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Actionable Takeaways

• Get Outside Intentionally: Aim for 17+ intentional minutes outdoors (bonus if in nature).
• Morning Light Ritual: Get outside within 1 hour of waking for at least 10 minutes (no sunglasses needed).
• Purify Indoor Air: Use HEPA/PM2.5 and VOC-filtering air purifiers; minimize scented/chemical products.
• Garden or Grow Something: Houseplants or herbs count and can shift your microbiome and well-being.
• Engage Socially in Nature: Walking dogs, gardening, or just spending time outside with others improves health.
• Monitor and Ventilate: Be aware of CO2 buildup indoors; open windows when possible.
• Choose Cleaning Products Wisely: Avoid VOC-containing products and endocrine disruptors.

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Closing Thoughts

Dr. La Puma’s “indoor epidemic” framework casts excessive indoor living as a root cause of modern malaise—fatigue, sleep problems, inflammation, and loneliness. Dr. Gundry echoes these concerns and underlines the crucial, actionable value of purposeful time outside, whether through morning sunlight, gardening, or simply being present in nature, even in small doses.

Essential Prescription:
“Get outside before you get online.” – Dr. John La Puma ([10:56])

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Transcript

[Dr. John La Puma]

Foreign.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. You know, we spend so much time talking about food supplements and toxins, but what if one of the biggest threats to your health is much simpler than that? The fact that you're spending most of your life indoors? So today I'm here with my friend, Dr. John La Puma, a board certified internist, professionally trained chef, and two time New York Times best selling author. In his new book, the Indoor Epidemic, he argues that modern indoor life may be disrupting sleep, focus, metabolism and energy in ways most people never stop to consider. Now, in just a bit, John and I will reveal what all that indoor time is doing to your brain and body, why morning light and cleaner air matter more than most people realize, and how just a few intentional hours outside each week can help reset the signals your body depends on. We'll be right back.

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[Dr. Steven Gundry]

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[Dr. John La Puma]

Steve, Great to be here.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

It's great to see you again. I want to dive right into your new book, Indoor Epidemic. Now, a lot of people blame stress, age and bad genes for feeling tired, foggy and off. But you argue they may simply be living in the wrong environment under artificial light, constant screens and fewer natural cues. What is constant indoor life doing to us?

[Dr. John La Puma]

As you know Steve, we evolved 200,000 years ago, largely outdoors. And in just one generation we've moved indoors and we've not left. It became normal to have a screen centered life after Covid. But what most people don't realize is that that move indoors has dramatic biologic consequences. It causes or contributes to, as I think as a root cause, insomnia, immune deficits, insulin deficiency, isolation, myopia, chronic fatigue, attention fatigue, cognitive deficits. And these aren't subtle sedentary ness. Not subtle, but they have devastating effects on our longevity and on our present day, health. And yet it can be a fixable problem if we escape being 93% indoors, which is where we are now.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

93%.

[Dr. John La Puma]

93%. That's the number that stopped me when I began to look at longevity in this through this lens. 86% in buildings and 7% in vehicles. Only 7% outdoors. And that time outdoors that we're spending is largely incidental. We walk from the car to the parking lot, we walk down the street to a coffee shop, we pick up a doordash. We happen to be outside. But if you know how to think about what to do outside, you can turn those incidental minutes into medicine by deploying them in a very specific protocol like way.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

You mentioned obesity and you talk about digital obesity. You want to explain that to everybody?

[Dr. John La Puma]

Sure. Digital obesity is, well, let's put it in terms our audience gets. We like too much sugar burns out your metabolism. Too many pixels burn out your brain. You're overwhelmed by those pixels. It's one of the reasons we see so much burnout and exhaustion, because your brain actually can't metabolize it. And interestingly, it's not just a metaphor, it's measurable. Like if you get blue light before bed within an hour, as you know, it delays your melatonin, actually reduces its release by 80% so you can't go to sleep. And that lasts for an hour and a half. Your brain actually is overloaded on pixels and starved of the natural inputs you actually need. And it evolved for, because we have just been so immersed in this huge digital environment that many of us can't escape. Some people don't even leave their homes all day. And what I'm out to try to help people with is to escape this digital obesity, in fact, make it not the default circumstance, but one that we can move beyond and turn our incidental time outside into intentional time in a green or blue space, because that's what's going to help us.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Well, now you mentioned blue light at night is bad for us, but can blue light be good for us?

[Dr. John La Puma]

Blue light is essential in the morning when we go outside because we get and as you know, outdoor light is 25 to 50 times brighter than indoor light. We get that big cortisol boost in the morning which we want. So the easiest prescription is to get morning light within an hour of waking because as you know, it impacts the retina and the retina talks to the brain and you get a big cortisol response in the morning. That Wakes you up light first, coffee second. And it does all kinds of good things for your sleep.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

So people say, oh, I don't want high cortisol levels, so why do I want blue light in the morning? Can you explain that, Doctor?

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yes, sir, I absolutely will. So, as you know, Steve, cortisol that's chronically elevated during the day just keeps you on edge all the time and you feel like crap and you just are agitated and on edge and reactive and maybe feel exhausted. But that's not what we're talking about. We're just talking about the morning cortisol boost that helps you wake up and it makes your coffee work better, actually, light first, coffee second, because you have an internal surge of energy and then it drops as it should until another part in the day when it rises. But when you get that big morning boost of cortisol because you've been out for 10 minutes of morning light in the morning to absorb the 25 to 50 times brighter sunlight, you also get to make melatonin that night. Fourteen hours later, you get deep sleep, which we were talking about earlier about our trackers. Deep sleep is a time, as you know, that your brain cleans itself of beta amyloid and tau, the proteins that accumulate during Alzheimer's disease. It's the time where you repair muscle. It's the time where you build bone, especially important for women who have osteoporosis. It's the time where you also consolidate memory. And each of those times we miss if we get blue light at night within 60 minutes of bedtime. So we don't want to do that. We want to have different ritual at night. We want to use our analog tools.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

This sounds like an easy prescription to do, but I'm going to throw something back at you. We just had daylight savings time. Yes, and I normally, we have four dogs and I usually take them for a two to three mile hike before we start the day. And we've gotten all screwed up because I can't get out there. And instead of a three mile hike this morning, the dogs got maybe, maybe a mile and we were in the dark and I didn't get that light.

[Dr. John La Puma]

No question yet.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

What are we going to do about that?

[Dr. John La Puma]

I mean that, that part of it sucks. No question. Daylight savings time, as you know, because of your cardiothoracic background, boost heart attacks 20% the next Monday. Yeah, just 12 hours later because of the time shift, because of the screw up of our circadian rhythm, it has a silver lining, which is that we get an hour of daylight that's extra at night with red and amber light, which is the only light that doesn't suppress melatonin at sunset. So that tells your body it's okay to cool down. When we look at the horizon at sunset, it tells our brain that we're safe. It calms activity in the amygdala. And so it, that's the silver lining of daylight saving time. But like you, I get up before the sun and because we got to get stuff done and I need a 10,000 light therapy lux light therapy lamp right here as I'm reading my mail and preparing breakfast. And that gives me an initial boost when I get up in the dark. I then go out when it is light outside to get the morning rays because that's not full spectrum. It's a good threshold to set my circadian rhythm for that morning. So that's going to be true until a month from now or a month and a half from now when the sun will get up. When we get up.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

What do you tell people? Particularly in the north or in a big city.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Where maybe they actually never see the sun. Or how do we fix that?

[Dr. John La Puma]

We fix that by saying you don't need to look at the sun. In fact, you should not look at the sun, but you should thinking, yeah, thank you. Right.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Good advice.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah, thanks. But daylight will find you. So all you need is, is a sky view. You don't need to look at the sun. You just need a sky view because those waves are so much brighter than it is inside. And that's true on a cloudy day. A cloudy day, it's still five times brighter than it is inside on the, with the brightest light. But we don't realize that because our eyes inside are only accustomed to blue light. And in, even in this well lit TV studio you have here, it's maybe 400 luxury. Outside it's pretty sunny. It's gotta be 15 or 20,000 lux. And you can measure this on a phone or with a light meter and see it yourself. So if you live in a city, you just need a sky view. You don't need a backyard, you just need a balcony, a threshold, a doorway. You know, the prescription isn't a hiking trail. It's see the daylight. I mean, this is the first part. This is in chapter one. There are actually extensive protocols of the dozens of different things you can do to get there. But the simple thing is get outside before you get online.

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[Dr. Steven Gundry]

You mentioned we're sitting here indoors and a lot of your book is we're. We're trapped indoors in more ways than one. Yeah, you talk about indoor air quality and I've become very vehement or vocal in this space as well. So much so that I've designed my own home kind air filter, nice filtration system which we're using right now because

[Dr. John La Puma]

I don't trust this air and nor should you because we are in a sealed environment.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Yeah, go expand on that. I want to hear your point of view.

[Dr. John La Puma]

No, I think it's very good work, Stephen. And I think if you are trapped, as Most people are 93% of time indoors in this indoor epidemic that I've described, you need air purification, especially for particulate matter 2.5 and 10, and also for VOCs, volatile organic compounds because they come from carpets and paints and toxic places.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

You mean like my scented candles?

[Dr. John La Puma]

I do. But unscented candles are lovely and you should get some. So I think it's an important thing to do. Inside, air purification is real medicine. Outside, you're fixing more than one variable. Indoor we're fixing air. But outdoors we're fixing light. We're fixing air. We're Fixing circadian rhythm. We're fixing vision and visual focus. We're fixing microbial exposure, which can be very beneficial when that comes from trees. And obviously I'm not talking about the toxins that are inside that you're well aware of, including mold, which is a real problem and not to be underestimated. But outside we fix those things. So we fix more than one variable and we don't do it with very much time. The minimum effective dose of being outdoors is only 17 minutes a day. 17 minutes a day repurposed from your incidental time to intentional time in a green or blue space. That means near trees or near water. It can be still water like a pond or running water like a stream. It can be a swimming pool or a fountain, but better that it's a natural water, but it can be a fountain. And as you know, blue spaces can change the agitated beta waves in your brain to a more relaxed alpha and theta waves calming you. Green spaces. Even living near green spaces improves telomere function, improves prevents telomeres, the end protective caps on your chromosomes from fraying. And being outdoors fixes your biology actively. Even being near residing near green trees and greenery improves longevity passively. It's powerful what outdoors can do. And with this minimum effective dose of just 17 minutes a day, you can, if you use that time, intentionally fix some of the biology that's messing you up that indoors has messed up. A lot of people think burnout is like a character flaw. It's not. It's usually your environment that's hurting you, that you actually have control of if you know how to use it.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

A lot of my patients and a lot of my friends live on a golf course or near a golf course.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Is that a green space or should

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

we be worried about golf courses?

[Dr. John La Puma]

I love the long view of golf courses. When you can see in the distance, it's good for your eyes. It relaxes them. As I said before, it tells your brain when you can see a far away distance that you're safe. It reduces ciliary muscle strain. That's good. If golf courses are treated with synthetic artificial chemicals that are cidal, herbicidal and the like, pesticides and fungicides. That's problematic for the air, it's problematic for the water, it's problematic for the fungal and microbial ecosystems in the ground. It's fun. It's problematic for anything that might grow in the ground that you would eat. So I'm not in favor of. And as you know, I have a certified organic regenerative Farm not in favor of using synthetic, artificial, chemical pesticides, herbicides, or fungicides on anything, particularly not on the home garden. Gardening, though, changes your microbiome. Gardeners have 37% less dementia, lifelong gardeners than non gardeners. Gardening improves focus, it improves immunity, it allows you to eat more fruits and vegetables. And it is a powerful garden, Terrific way to teach children about what, where food is from, what it looks like when food is from, and the, and the creative aspect and adventure of growing it. Everyone should have a garden, and actually 71 million Americans do. And you don't need a little organic farm like I have or a big plot. You, you need a house plant to start. You need a window planter. If you have a balcony. I have these little coasters. I brought you one. I don't have it here that have parsley, chive and basil seeds in it where you can just plant the coaster and water it. And from two weeks later in a pot, you have the beginnings of basil, chives and parsley. It's the simplest way to start gardening. And I give them away at tox because they, people love them. And I really want get people to have their hands in the dirt because it too can be medicine if it's healthy soil. Even.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Growing inside is a way of bringing the outside into us.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yes, that's. Yes, I love that phrase. Yes, we're bringing the outside in. You know, nature. People think nature is the Grand Canyon, the Pacific Ocean, the Rocky Mountains, the south of France. But it's as close as the breeze ruffling your curtains. It said your four dogs. It's, it's the lettuce in your salad. I mean, that came from somewhere. And when you buy it from somebody who grew it, or even better, grew it yourself. And lettuce was one of the easiest things to grow.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

It's true.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Then you know exactly where it came from. You know exactly what it got fed it. You know exactly what its flavors are because you created them with it. It's a powerful, powerful tool to use nature in an intentional way and use it to in, specifically in green or blue spaces. And when you're inside, you are reminded that there's a world bigger than yours, that between those four walls. So inside is a threshold. It's a gateway. It's a way to suggest that there's even more out there, that the world is bigger than those four walls that are keeping you inside, often with stale air. That cuts, by the way, as you know, cognitive performance. People are not measuring carbon dioxide in offices or in homes. And they need to, because over a thousand parts per million, which is 10 people breathing in a conference room. You. The cognitive performance of the room drops.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

I'm falling asleep right now. There's 10 people in this room.

[Dr. John La Puma]

I'm not keeping you awake.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

People are hurting my cognitive performance. Get out of here.

[Dr. John La Puma]

We couldn't do it without them. That's right. So. No. And you know, the CO2 is a. Something we need to measure.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Yeah.

[Dr. John La Puma]

And that you can often upgrade the IQ of a room by opening a window.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

But wait a minute. We have carbon monoxide monitors in most of our homes.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Why? Why are we missing the fact that CO2 in a closed space with human beings is a bad thing?

[Dr. John La Puma]

Well, some offices are not. Actually, the most progressive offices are building it into, well, certified buildings and lead buildings to measure CO2 because it's demonstrated that it's a drag on cognitive performance. It's just not risen to the level of being commercially viable yet. Uh, Cornell did a study showing. An ergonomic study at Cornell that showed that. That the loss of cognitive performance in 100 people in its offices was worth a hundred thousand dollars per person. And that's so dramatic that I. I wrote a piece for a fast company about it. It will be out later this month. It's important to know that the inside is making us sick. You know, our chronic diseases are actually more preventable than people think. You have more control than you think. 80% of heart disease, as you all know, is preventable. 50% of all depression and anxiety are preventable. 40% of cancers are environmentally related and preventable. So because you have more control than you think, the fix is closer to you than you've imagined. And I think it starts with simple protocols and a really foundational operating system, because, you know, if you don't have the right operating system that is foundational, it doesn't matter what you stack on top of it. It's not going to function well or. And certainly not optimally.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

I have my own standards for designing indoor air filters. What should people look for? Just as a general rule, because we do need cleaner indoor air, as the book points out.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah, we do. You do want a filter that is specifically for filters out particulate matter 2.5. Because, as you know, that toxin injures the insides of arteries and penetrates all the way to the bottom of the lungs. We get that from automobile exhaust. We get that from indoor toxins. We get that from common sources. We also want filters that filter out VOCs, volatile organic compounds, because they too are especially Noxious. If we can find filters that filter out mold. I really like those. Yeah, mold is a, is a not just an environmental problem indoors, but it can be a personal medical problem that injures people with weakened immunity. And when you stay indoors as much as people do 93% of the time in our indoor epidemic, they are subjected to these problems, especially with our sealed buildings. Our sealed buildings do not allow healthier air from the outdoors to come in. Outdoor air is so much better than indoor air. And when you go outdoors, you fix not just the air problem, but also the light problem, the horizon problem, the circadian rhythm problem, the vision problem, the microbial exposure that is actually good for you. And that's why I'm such a fan.

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[Dr. Steven Gundry]

So even again, the city dweller who's listening to us, the outdoor air in a city is actually better than the indoor air.

[Dr. John La Puma]

It still is. Unless you live next to a smokestack. Unless you live next to car mufflers that are pushing their exhaust into your apartment. It's measurably better, in part because of the work that you encountered in developing this filter that indoor air can be so bad for you. Outdoor air is also have hugely just orders of magnitude greater volume than indoor air. So there are pollutants in outdoor air, no question. But the volume is so much more vast than the volume inside that they are diluted. Essentially when you're indoors, they're concentrated. When you go outdoors, you have the advantage not just of that dilution, but of the many other benefits that I've described and that actually we take people through in the seven Day outdoor reset that I describe in the book, which is very simple, goes one day at a time. And it's kind of a protocol. It is a protocol with specific steps. And the first step is the one that I've mentioned, this morning light step where you get 10 minutes of morning light within 60 minutes of waking without sunglasses. But glasses like yours or soft plastic glass contacts are just fine. Don't block the light. That will give you all the benefits. We talked about that big cortisol boost, better deep sleep. Melatonin made the proper time 14 hours later. Your memory consolidation, your important glymphatic cleaning. Many people don't know that term. The was coined in 2013, Nobel given in 2017. Glymphatic cleaning system only happens in the the first half of sleep really. Primarily third of sleep during the deep sleep. Yeah. Which our various devices track. But you don't have to track it. You can just know that you need to get consistent sleep. That's more important actually than even the number of hours of sleep that you get. I I where you have a consistent within half hour, 40 minutes of sleep time and a consistent half hour, 40 minutes of wake time. That consistency is more tied to longevity than the actual hours of sleep that you get. Most people, as you know, seven to nine hours of sleep, optimally, some fraction of the population can run on four to six hours. That's I have read. I'm interested in your idea that that's a genetic variation. The people who can do that. Is that your experience? Yeah.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

You know, one of the most famous heart surgeons was Michael DeBakey from Houston, Texas.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah, I went to Baylor.

[Podcast Host/Advertiser]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

And I knew him well. I was in his society. But he usually only got about four hours of sleep and he lived well into his mid 90s. Well, doing well into his mid 90s.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah, he's a phenomenon.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

But yeah, he usually only got about four hours of sleep and did perfectly fine.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah, well, he was an exceptional human being in so many ways. And, and I do think that those, those people exist and thank goodness for them. But the most of us need seven to nine hours and we cheat ourselves if we get less. And that sleep deficit is problematic for us. It puts off deep sleep so we don't get brain cleaning. It puts off our normal melatonin rise. And so we don't get to sleep as easily. Our sleep is not restorative. It doesn't allow us to function optimally. It actually adds to this feeling of burnout that so many people have. And that is so much not their fault, so much an environmental problem. And you know, you've done this by teaching people that food is information, supplements are information for your body. And I've come to believe, and the research and I went through 2,200 peer reviewed studies to write this book. The research shows that light and air, I believe, also are information for your body. Light is metabolized in the brain. It's not just a metaphor. So like you've shown people that lectins are hidden inflammatory triggers. I think that indoor toxins and the indoor environment is an inflammatory trigger for the body and raises C reactive protein and raises inflammation levels which come down, by the way, when you have deliberate intentional exposure to green and blue spaces, mood improves, clarity, improves focus, improves blood pressure, improves your cortisol levels that are chronically elevated come down. Each of these has been demonstrated in peer reviewed studies. What I want to know is, as you've demonstrated this for lectins and I believe that the research shows that air and light are similarly inflammatory. Is there something that you would add to your prescriptions for your patients who are getting the right food and supplements that is environmental that they might be missing?

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

I frequently write prescriptions to my patients to get a dog. And I can't tell you the number of patients who, number one, bring their dog with their next visit. And several of my patients have framed that prescription with basically this is the first prescription I have ever gotten from a doctor that works. And so, yeah, so. And I feel, again, I completely agree with everything you write in this book. The prescription that you talk about. I think one of the things I would add to that is a dog forces you, whether you want to or not, to go out in the morning and go out in the sunset in the evening. And I just think the dog knows best. The dog hasn't been trained like we have. And that forces you to do that.

[Dr. John La Puma]

That's right. There is a little bonus chapter about companion animals in the book and I do suggest that people have a dog. And I love that you write those prescriptions and I know your patients love you for it. It sounds like it. With that framing. I love that. I feel that that introduces another benefit of nature and, and that is that nature is social.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Yeah. You end up talking to people.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Exactly. And that's a good thing for our longevity.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John La Puma]

It shows bonds, it produces bonds, it makes you feel not so alone, it allows you to connect with other people, which is a good thing for your telomeres, a good thing to protect your telomeres. From fraying these protective caps on the ends of chromosomes that indicate our longevity. And that's powerful. Medicine fights loneliness. Loneliness. Dr. Murthy said it's worth three quarters of a pack of cigarettes a day. And we want to fight loneliness. And many people in America are lonely and burned out. And this is a, it's a prescription that, you know, it doesn't have a copay. There are no side effects. It doesn't take more time because you're just repurposing incidental time. And it doesn't take more willpower either. It's just a, a way to frame, I think, to escape an indoor epidemic and use a protocol that can make your life so much better because it amplifies the good of everything else you're doing. When you have a good diet, when you have good fitness routines, when you have a good sleep routine, when you have. Know how to manage stress, when you have good relationships, when you are part of a community, being intentionally outside in a green or blue space along the protocols that I suggest can make those things work better for reducing risk for chronic disease, for improving longevity, and for just feeling well in a way that I think America does not. And this has not really had a name until now, so I gave it one.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Thank you for bringing this to everybody's attention. I think it's fascinating that Chef MD is doing now a kind of an outdoor prescription.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yes.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Well, well done. Well done.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Well, thank you, Steve. It's, you know, cooking outdoors counts too.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Oh, there you go.

[Dr. John La Puma]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. When you grow what you cook, even a little bit, even the, the herb garnish on top of a salad or a salmon, it's even more powerful. And actually, herbs are a great way to start. That's why we did these coasters because they have such intense and, and high concentrations of antioxidants and anti inflammatory agents. In fact, herbs and spices, gram for gram of higher anti inflammatory potential than almost any other food group.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

And as I wrote in my last book, it turns out that herbs have an incredible microbiome that actually teaches our immune system to actually accept bacteria as potential friends rather than enemies. So.

[Dr. John La Puma]

So I love that. Exactly right.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

So, John, VOCs, these volatile organic compounds. That in a way sounds scary. And a lot of people, I think are beginning to realize, well, yeah, carpets and our furniture have these things. And we see cleaning products advertised all the time to get rid of bacteria in our home, et cetera.

[Dr. John La Puma]

We.

[Advertiser]

Where.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Where do cleaning products, spraying products come in terms of VOCs?

[Dr. John La Puma]

Many cleaning products can contain VOCs. And I prefer cleaning products that don't. I mean, I think that's something to look for on the label, something that specifically claims that they do not contain VOCs. Because we want to be really careful with what we put in an urban environment because it's such a sealed box and because many of us don't have windows open and we're inside 93% of the time, they can affect our immune system in ways that are really unfavorable.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

And there are some bad endocrine disrupting.

[Dr. John La Puma]

That's right. Yes. That's also true for phthalates. It's true for a number of other toxins that we really don't want in the home and that we can improve by getting outside.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

All right, well, thanks again for coming. The book is Indoor Epidemic by my good friend, Dr. John La Puma. Great to see you again.

[Dr. John La Puma]

You too, Steve.

[Dr. Steven Gundry]

Thanks for coming.

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[Podcast Host/Closing Speaker]

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Gundry podcast. If you did, please share this with family and friends. You never know how one of these health tips can completely transform someone's life when you take the time to share it with them. There's also the Dr. Gundry Podcast YouTube channel where we have tens of thousands of free health insights that can help you and your loved ones live a long, vital life. Let's do this together.

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