The Bread Upgrade: Healthier Choices That Taste Great | EP 394

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bread Upgrade: Healthier Choices That Taste Great | The Dr. Gundry Podcast Ep. 394

Date: March 10, 2026
Host: Dr. Steven Gundry

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Gundry dives deep into the controversial topic of bread—why so many people love it, but why it doesn’t love us back. He examines the hidden dangers lurking in various types of bread, focusing on their lectin and carbohydrate content, and offers practical advice for listeners seeking healthier alternatives. Backed by scientific insights, personal stories, and actionable tips, this episode empowers listeners to make better decisions about bread consumption without sacrificing taste or wellness.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Bread: Why We Love It—But It Doesn’t Love Us Back

• Opening Theme: Dr. Gundry starts by voicing a common sentiment: “I just love bread. But guess what? Bread does not love me back.” (00:09)
• Main Problem: Most commercial breads are high in inflammatory lectins—especially gluten—and are essentially “pure, refined carbohydrates.” (00:58)
• Glycemic Impact: White bread has an extremely high glycemic index (GI) of 100, making it act “like instant sugar” in the bloodstream, even worse than table sugar (GI 75). Each sandwich can equal “eight teaspoons of sugar.” (01:40)

2. Dangers Lurking in “Healthier” Breads

Sprouted Breads (e.g., Dave’s Killer Bread, Ezekiel Bread)

• Lectin Increase: Sprouting grains increases their lectin content. “That’s the last thing you want to eat if you’re trying to reduce lectin content.” (03:02)
• Patient Story: A rheumatoid arthritis patient relapsed after adding “healthy” Dave’s Killer Bread to her diet; her symptoms subsided once she eliminated it. (03:25)
  • Quote: “If you want a killer bread, you get the message.” – Dr. Gundry (04:35)

Whole Grain Breads

• Wheat Germ Agglutinin (WGA): Present in wheat, rye, barley, oats, and rice; small enough to pass through gut walls even without leaky gut. (05:18)
• Health Risks: WGA is linked to heart disease, dementia, arthritis, MS, and can promote fat accumulation. (05:45)
  • Quote: “Whole grain, goodness for goodness sake, stay away from whole grain.” (08:22)

Ancient Grain Breads

• Not So Safe: Grains like kamut, einkorn, farina, barley, rye, and oats often still contain gluten and lectins. (10:22)
• Contamination: American oat products are often heavily contaminated with glyphosate and other pesticides. (11:10)
• “Gluten-free” Oats: “An oxymoron in my opinion.” (11:25)
• Other Problematic Grains: Buckwheat, amaranth, quinoa—all have major lectins. (11:50)
  • Quote: “I have nothing against these things except they are major contributors to our illness.” (12:15)
  • Historical Perspective: Human health and height declined after grains were introduced to the diet. (13:03)

3. Are ANY Breads Safe?

White and Sourdough Bread

• Relatively Safer: “The safest, if there is such a thing, is non whole wheat white bread, but more in particular sourdough bread…they are the better of a bad situation.” (13:25)
• Fermentation Benefits: Traditional sourdough fermentation helps break down lectins. (13:35)
• Commercial vs. Artisan: Most commercial “sourdough” does not use proper fermentation. Seek out true artisan breads made with classic techniques. (14:30)

Glyphosate Warnings

• Almost all U.S. wheat is contaminated with glyphosate, problematic even in fermented products. (15:10)

Dr. Gundry’s Bread-Eating Tips

• Toast & Cool: Toasting and cooling bread (as done in England) creates more resistant starch, which is less likely to spike blood sugar. (15:23)

  • Quote: “If you gotta have your bread, toast it and then cool it, and you’ll be better off.” (16:10)

• Restaurant Strategy: “When you go to a restaurant, tell them not to bring the bread…If it’s there, you’re going to eat it. You won’t be able to help yourself.” (17:25)

• No Human Requirement for Bread: “There is no human need for bread. We did perfectly fine for millions of years without it.” (17:50)

Plant Paradox Approved Bread Alternatives

• Recommended brands and recipes: Bread Seriously, Gundry MD bread mix, Arise Bakery, Uprising Foods, and various Plant Paradox-compliant recipes (18:10)
• Warning: Even lectin-free bread alternatives can raise blood sugar and insulin if overconsumed. “That doesn’t mean they are carbohydrate and sugar free.” (18:50)
• Look for breads with psyllium husk for gut health. (19:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bread’s Glycemic Load:
  “Every time you have that healthy sandwich, you’re eating the equivalent of eight teaspoons of sugar.” (02:30)

• On Sprouted Bread:
  “Get rid of that. I’ll see you back in three months. Sure enough…her rheumatoid arthritis markers became normal again. All because she got rid of a healthy lectin containing food so perfectly well named. If you want a killer bread, you get the message.” (04:10)

• On WGA:
  “Wheat germ agglutinin is extremely well known as one of the most mischievous lectins ever discovered…It is a splinter…Our immune system attacks it as a foreign protein.” (06:08)

• On Product Labeling:
  “Gluten-free oats, which is an oxymoron in my opinion, please stay away from whole oats.” (11:25)

• On Bread Alternatives:
  “Just remember…these breads are safe, they are lectin free, [but] that does not mean they will not raise your insulin level.” (18:50)

• On The Temptation of Bread:
  “If it’s there, you’re going to eat it. You won’t be able to help yourself.” (17:37)

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Actionable Tips

• Prefer traditional, artisan fermented sourdough if you must have bread.
• Toast bread and let it cool to increase resistant starch and reduce blood sugar impact.
• Avoid sprouted and whole grain breads as they increase lectin exposure.
• Look for bread alternatives with psyllium husk fiber for gut benefits.
• At restaurants, proactively say “no bread.”
• Even lectin-free breads should be consumed in moderation due to carbohydrate content.

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Listener Q&A Highlights

• [19:50] Jose Morales asks about back nerves and constipation:
  Dr. Gundry explains that while severe back nerve issues can sometimes affect constipation, it's rare; more often, gut health should be investigated. (20:05)

  • Quote: “There’s better places to look, particularly in leaky gut. But great question.” (20:14)

• [20:36] Listener Review:
  Bill Coke thanks Dr. Gundry for his teachings, stating they have “dramatically changed my health.”

  • Dr. Gundry debunks the need for routine parasite cleanses. (21:01)
  • Quote: “The idea that you need a parasite cleanse is bogus.” (21:01)

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Conclusion

Dr. Gundry issues a clear warning: while bread is a beloved staple, most types—especially whole grain and sprouted varieties—can hurt your health due to lectins, glyphosate, and high glycemic loads. If you must indulge, seek long-fermented, artisan sourdough, opt for bread alternatives with gut-friendly fiber, and practice portion control. Ultimately, “There is no human need for bread. We did perfectly fine for millions of years without it.” (17:50)

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For more detailed notes and bread alternatives, check Dr. Gundry’s Plant Paradox books and recommended blogs.

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Key Timestamps:

• [00:09] Opening – Bread’s love-hate relationship
• [01:40] Glycemic index and bread’s sugar content
• [03:25] Sprouted bread dangers & patient case study
• [05:18] Wheat germ agglutinin in whole grains
• [10:22] Ancient grains & contamination issues
• [13:25] What breads are less harmful
• [15:23] Toasting and cooling bread tip
• [17:25] Strategies for eating out
• [18:10] Recommended bread alternatives and recipes
• [19:50] Listener Q&A – Constipation and back nerves
• [20:36] Listener review and parasite cleanse myth

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, today I'm talking about a subject. I just love bread. But guess what?

[B]

Bread does not love me back.

[A]

I'm here to talk about why and ways you can lower the inflammatory lectins if you do eat bread. So stay tuned. Healthy eating doesn't have to be boring or expensive. That's why I recommend Thrive Market, a healthy online marketplace offering cleaner ingredients, smarter swaps, and personalized grocery shopping at members only savings. Join [e-mail] gundrypodcast for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.

[B]

Not only do most breads have lectins, and the most famous lectin in bread is gluten, most breads are just basically pure, refined carbohydrates. Now, one of the really sad things is that most of us know sugar is really bad for us. And sugar is a combination of of two sugars, glucose and fructose. Fructose is the fruit sugar. And so sucrose, which is table sugar, which we think of as sugar, is a combination of those two sugars that are bound together. When we take a starch, we'll use wheat for an example, and we process it into a fine powder. That starch is unfortunately easier to digest and appear in your bloodstream than breaking down straight table sugar. So many of you know that the glycemic index, table 100, which is basically the worst, was based on white bread because it is basically instant sugar and sucrose. Table sugar sits around 75, just as a comparison. Now, why is that important? Because most bread has about four teaspoons of sugar per slice, so that every time you have that healthy sandwich, you're eating the equivalent of eight teaspoons of sugar. And I can guarantee you that most of you would probably rather pour 8 teaspoons of sugar on your palm and lick it up to get that much sweet taste. Now, having said that, there are some types of breads that are worse than others. Number one topping the hit list, and I do mean hit list for your health, are sprouted breads like Dave's killer bread or Ezekiel bread. Why? It turns out that sprouting of any grain increases the lectin content. Now, why is that? Remember, lectins are the plant defense system against being eaten personally or against having the seed eaten, which is the baby of the mother plant. As the seed sprouts, that is the most vulnerable. And so the lectin content in the sprout actually dramatically increases. So that's the last thing you want to eat if you're trying to reduce Lectin content. In fact, I've told this story. I've written about this story in one of my books, and I'll just briefly mention it again. We had a woman with rheumatoid arthritis who wanted to get off her biologic medications, which we did. Her rheumatoid arthritis markers became normal. Her arthritis disappeared in her hands. As you know, I see my patients every three to six months. And when I saw her about six months later, I noticed that her rheumatoid arthritis markers were again positive after being negative. And she related that her arthritis, she could feel and you could see it in her hands. So immediately we went to her food list, and I said, well, what the heck? You've added something. She said, no, I haven't changed a thing. I said, you've added something. And she said, oh, yeah, I've added a new bread which is really healthy. It's Dave's killer bread. And I said, oh, my gosh, you know, that's one of the worst things you can do. Get rid of that. I'll see you back in three months where we're gonna recheck. Sure enough, getting rid of Dave's killer bread. Her rheumatoid arthritis markers became normal again. And lo and behold, the arthritis in her fingers subsided, all because she got rid of a healthy lectin containing food so perfectly well named. If you want a killer bread, you get the message number two, whole grain breads. Now, here's the problem. Wheat, rye, and barley, and to some extent, oats and rice have a lectin called wheat germ agglutinin in the germ. Now, the germ is kind of where the new little baby is living, and that's on the outside of the grain. And wheat germ agglutinin is extremely well known as one of the most mischievous lectins ever discovered. Why? Two reasons. Wheat germ agglutinin is so tiny that it can be absorbed through the wall of the gut without the presence of leaky gut. On the other hand, gluten is a very large lectin, and gluten cannot be absorbed without leaky gut. Now, interestingly, as you know, gluten causes leaky gut, which then allows gluten to be absorbed. But back to wga, it can be absorbed without leaky gut. Now, here's the problem. WGA is looking for sugar molecules to attach to, and these sugar molecules are present in the lining of our blood vessels. Called the glycocalyx. They're present in the lining of our blood brain barrier. They're present in the lining of our joints and they're present in the myelin sheath that protects our nerves. And WGA is a foreign protein, so it is a splinter. So when it sticks to the lining of our blood vessels or the lining of our blood vein barrier or the lining of our joints, our immune system attacks it as a foreign protein. And there's very good evidence, and I show it again in the upcoming book Gut Check, that WGA from whole grains is one of the leading causes of heart disease, leaky brain and dementia, arthritis and even Ms. And for 10,000 years, millers have been trying trying to remove WGA wheat germ agglutinin from grains to eliminate this problem. The other thing that I showed in the plant paradox is that WGA can actually attach to insulin receptors on fat cells and turn insulin receptors on and can actually contribute to fat accumulation. So whole grain, goodness for goodness sake, stay away from whole grain.

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

Now number three, ancient grain breads. There are a number of grains that are quote ancient, a number of which actually have gluten. So kamut, Einkorn, farina. These are old names for cousins of wheat. And remember, barley and rye contain gluten. Almost all Oats have a molecule that cross reacts with gluten. So even if you see gluten free oats, which is an oxymoron in my opinion, please stay away from whole oats. Also, as you know, Consumer Reports and the Environmental Working Group have discovered large amounts of weed killers, including glyphosate, on almost all American oat products. Some of these weed killers are banned, but they still are present in our products. So same thing goes with buckwheat. Years ago, when I was first coming up with this program, I was really excited that buckwheat might be a safe grain. But sadly, buckwheat, amethyst, quinoa, all have major lectins. And so none of these are safe foods, despite what you think about in ancient grain. Now, I don't have a dog in this fight. I think buckwheat is great. I think soba noodles are wonderful. Do I think bread is one of the most addictive foods there is? Absolutely true. I have nothing against these things except they are major contributors to our illness. And let's not forget, ever since grains were introduced to our diet 10,000 years ago, we had dramatic decrease in our health. And even in our height, we shrunk about a foot in 2000 years after grains were introduced. So let's beware of these. Now, are there safe regular breads out there? Well, the safest, if there is such a thing, is non whole wheat white bread, but more in particular sourdough bread. I'm not telling you to have white bread and sourdough bread. Let's not be confused, but they are better of a bad situation, but they're still not ideal. When I say opt for sourdough bread, we know that fermentation actually breaks down lectins as a part of fermentation. Traditionally, all breads were made by fermentation. The dough rose from yeast eating the sugars in bread, producing gases that rose the bread. And gluten happens to be a marvelously stretchy compound and gluten can trap air bubbles. And that's how things rose modern commercial bread. Even modern sourdough bread doesn't use fermentation to raise the bread. We use artificial ways of raising the bread using transglutaminase. And don't get me started on that. So if you get commercial white bread or commercial sourdough bread, the odds are you're not getting fermented bread even if you started with a sourdough starter. Find a bread maker that actually uses classic artisan fermentation techniques and you'll be much safer. But it's a variation on the theme. Also, most wheat in the United States is contaminated with glyphosate. And so even if you're using these techniques, even if you're using fermentation, the glyphosate in our breads are enough to cause untoward damage to the wall of your gut. Now, one more tip. If you are going to get bread and you are going to buy artisan sourdough bread, let me share with you a tip I learned in England when I was studying there years ago. Many of you know that the English have served toast for breakfast, and they serve toast on toast holders, and they're little racks that they put the toast, and the toast dries out and cools. Now, you think that's a really stupid idea because it's hard to spread the butter, and that's true. But why do they do this? Well, there's actually method to their madness. Whenever we have these starches, we want to try to make them resistant to being digested. And it just so happens that toasting bread actually increases the resistant starch. But get this. Just like rice and other starches, if you cook it and then cool it, you get even more resistant starch. So the clever English cool their toasted bread, making it less likely to become sugar in your blood. So if you gotta have your bread, toast it and then cool it, and you'll be better off. Let's make this clear. I do not recommend eating these foods. It's not gonna do your gut any favor, it's not gonna do your arthritis any favor, and it's not gonna contribute to healthy weight management. But I sympathize. These things are really hard to give up. My wife loves bread, and she realized after me hounding her enough that this was probably not a good practice, so we had to break her of that. And she had to use a mantra of, I am a person who doesn't eat bread. And the other thing that we found, and I counsel all my patients, I just did this weekend. Please, please, please. When you go to a restaurant, tell them not to bring the bread. If they arrive with the bread, help them take it away. Why? Because if it's there, you're going to eat it. You won't be able to help yourself. If it's not there, you can't eat it. It's one of the simplest things you can do, and even that takes some effort. Now, just remember, there is no human need for bread. We did perfectly fine for millions of years without it. It's in every culture in the world because let's face it, it's tasty and it's cost effective. And you'll see that there were other reasons that bread might have been introduced. But that's enough for today. Now I put together a list in my books of Plant A Paradox approved bread alternatives, some of which are commercially available. Bread Seriously has several breads that are Plant Paradox compliant. I make a Gundry MD bread mix. I make a sourdough bread mix. Arise Bakery makes baguettes and White sliced loaf. Uprising Foods have approved breads. There are great bread recipes like my Sturdy Sandwich Bread in my Plant Paradox Family cookbook, Claudia Cursici's cookbooks and blogs, and Lectin Free Gourmet's blog all have really good bread recipes that are Plant Paradox compliant. A disclaimer Just remember that patients and you and me can overdo safe breads. I have many well meaning patients who hear me that okay, these breads are safe. They are lectin free. That doesn't mean they are carbohydrate and sugar free. That doesn't mean that they will not raise your insulin level. That does not mean they will not raise your triglyceride levels. Even though these recommended foods are lectin free, I'd prefer that you have have none. Even these lectin free flours, once you grind them into a fine powder, they become mischievous in terms of your blood sugar. However, if you want to have the best possible results, look for breads or recipes with psyllium husk fiber like my Sturdy Bread recipe has for some redeeming health benefits. Psyllium husk feeds friendly bacteria so you can have your cake and eat it too.

[A]

Now it's time for the Question of the week. The question comes From Jose Morales, CL5JM on YouTube. On my episode about poop, they asked what about back nerves? Would it affect constipation?

[B]

Well, there certainly are instances where nerves from the back being injured in a

[A]

major accident or with severe collapse of vertebra or spinal stenosis can affect constipation. But it's pretty doggone rare. There's better places to look, particularly in leaky gut. But great question.

[B]

Now it's time for the review of the week.

[A]

This review comes from illCoke75744 on YouTube. On my episode about parasites in your body, they said, I always enjoy and appreciate your teaching. Thank you for sharing your books and YouTube information. Dramatically changed my health.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Well, thank you Bill Coke. Yeah, I study parasites in hundreds of

[B]

thousands of patients and the idea that you need a parasite cleanse is bogus.

[A]

Yes, a few people have some easily

[B]

detected and easily treated parasites, but you don't need a parasite cleanse. Great question and thank you for that review. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows.

[A]

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[B]

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[D]

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[E]

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[B]

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[E]

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[B]

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[E]

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Gundry podcast. If you did, please share this with family and friends. You never know how one of these health tips can completely transform someone's life when you take the time to share it with them. There's also the Dr. Gundry Podcast YouTube channel where we have tens of thousands of free health insights that can help you and your loved ones live a long, vital life. Let's do this together.

[C]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[D]

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[E]

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