Antidepressants Have Killed Our Sex Life

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: “Antidepressants Have Killed Our Sex Life”

Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony
Produced by: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. John Delony fields heartfelt calls related to complex family and relationship dynamics, focusing heavily on issues of intimacy, trauma, addiction, and personal boundaries. The episode title highlights the first major topic: how antidepressants (specifically Prozac) have impacted a listener's intimate relationship and the deeper emotional complications that arise when trauma, past relationships, and mental health intersect. Later, Dr. Delony addresses dilemmas around family obligation and personal sacrifice, and guides another caller through establishing healthy boundaries with future in-laws. Throughout, he brings empathy, real talk, and practical advice to emotionally charged scenarios.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of Antidepressants and Sobriety on Intimacy

(00:05–18:00)

Caller Sarah’s Dilemma:

• Background: Sarah’s partner has been sober for 134 days after a long struggle with alcoholism. He also started Prozac following detox, which dramatically reduced their sexual intimacy.
• Intimacy Void: Sarah observed positive changes—her partner is more reliable, home, and communicative—but physical intimacy, especially sex, declined.
• Emotional Strain: The lack of sex triggers Sarah’s anxiety, partly due to painful memories from her prior marriage, which was also sexless and emotionally neglectful.

Dr. Delony’s Guidance:

• On Alcoholic Blame & Love/Sex Confusion:

  “You might confuse love with sex at times. Almost every human on the planet does that... But I put zero, none, zilch, stock in what somebody on a bender rips off at me.” — Dr. John Delony (02:50)

• Medicinal Side-Effects: Dr. Delony validates that SSRIs like Prozac can "crush your libido" (03:45), and underscores the need for compassion and patience as her partner recovers from addiction and adjusts to medication.
• Processing Her Distress: He challenges Sarah to look at why the lack of sex sets off alarm bells, revealing she’s carrying unaddressed wounds from her previous marriage and upbringing.
• Unpacking Past Trauma:

  “Ex-husband no longer gets a vote in my current marriage, period... There’s a whole bunch of work to be done there.” — Dr. John Delony (09:14)

• A Call to Self-Healing:

  "If your body goes into such... an anxiety-ridden response... I want you to heal some of this old trauma. And I'd be willing to bet your challenges... started way before your last husband." — Dr. John Delony (10:00-11:25)

Action Steps Suggested:

• Separate current partner from past trauma (“don’t let your ex have a vote”).
• Seek personal therapy to heal old wounds surrounding sex, intimacy, and self-worth.
• Communicate openly with her partner about other forms of intimacy if full sexual intimacy isn’t possible right now.
• Recognize self-worth outside the bedroom ("I want you to believe you're worth being loved outside of the bedroom." — 15:07).
• Dr. Delony offers Sarah 3 months of BetterHelp therapy to start this healing.

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2. Family Obligation and Donor Dilemma — Should I Give My Mom a Kidney?

(19:53–37:00)

Caller Michelle’s Story:

• Background: Her mother, an alcoholic who has previously survived cancer and a heart transplant, is now in stage three renal failure. The family is debating living donor kidney evaluations.
• History of Neglect/Abuse: Michelle endured emotional abuse and neglect by both parents; she’s not close with her mother or siblings.
• The Guilt vs. Resentment Battle: She feels tremendous guilt about potentially refusing (pressure mainly from her older sister), but also fears deep resentment and loss of self if she says yes.

Dr. Delony’s Approach:

• Sifting Past and Present:

  “All of this other stuff... feels like you’re trying to make a case for yourself as to why you don’t have to [donate], and I want to free you from all of that. Do you want to do this?” — Dr. John Delony (23:43)

• Seeking Permission to Be Honest: He encourages Michelle to name her truth without justification: “Just say that. I don't want to. Put a period at the end of that and just exhale for a second.” — (24:31)
• Sibling Approval Trap: Dr. Delony points out Michelle is craving a close relationship with her sister, but donating a kidney won't magically repair their bond.
• Whose Voice Matters Most?

  “Of all the people you mentioned... I would take [your husband's] vote into account first... and I would take your vote into account first. And my guess is your vote has been squashed your entire life.” — (29:51-30:05)

• Choose Guilt, Not Resentment:

  "You're going to feel guilty no matter what decision you make. Which one of these decisions is going to lead you to a place where you absolutely resent yourself and your situation and your family members, and which one... are you going to be able to remain whole?" — (34:01)

Memorable Moment:

• Dr. Delony gently affirms Michelle’s humanity and heartbreak, focusing on self-compassion over family obligation.

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3. Navigating Support Roles with Future In-Laws

(38:08–51:00)

Caller Alexis’s Struggle:

• Situation: Alexis is a social worker whose fiancé’s father is ill. She wants to support her fiancé and his family but fears overstepping as a “professional helper.”
• Family Dynamics Conflict: Her in-laws manage crises differently than her own family (i.e., avoidant communication, lack of directness), and Alexis worries about how this might reflect in her own relationship.

Dr. Delony’s Advice:

• Professional vs. Personal Boundaries:

  “If you're a social worker by trade, when you walk in the door, you're a fiancé first.” — Dr. John Delony (39:59)

• Don’t Give Unsolicited Advice: He recounts hard-learned wisdom: “I only answer questions I'm asked. I only enter in to help if I'm asked.” — (40:51)
• Growth in Partnership: Dr. Delony stresses the importance of having a conflict-resolution framework in marriage, not just logistical planning.
• Constructive Conversations:

  “I’m watching a pattern emerge... when scary [things] come up, your parents bury their head in the sand... and I see that same tendency in you... that makes me nervous for our future because I want to be with somebody that faces problems head on.” — (44:03)

• The Compromise for “Processers” vs. “Talkers”: Dr. Delony suggests setting a future time to revisit hard discussions, giving each partner a respectful boundary for processing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Not Letting Trauma Dictate the Present:

  “Ex-husband no longer gets a vote in my current marriage. Period.” — Dr. John Delony (09:14)

• Self-Worth in Relationships:

  “I want you to believe you’re worth being loved outside of the bedroom.” — Dr. John Delony (15:07)

• The Guilt-Resentment Scales:

  “Choose guilt over resentment. You’re going to feel guilty either way... but only one way lets you remain whole.” — Dr. John Delony (34:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:05–18:00 — Sarah’s call: Intimacy, antidepressants, and healing from trauma
• 19:53–37:00 — Michelle's call: Family obligation, trauma, and the kidney donation dilemma
• 38:08–51:00 — Alexis's call: Supporting future in-laws, healthy boundaries, and couples’ frameworks
• 53:36–58:34 — Listener letter from Justin about finding redemption after career loss

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Tone & Language

Dr. John Delony’s approach is warm, direct, and validating. He interweaves clinical wisdom with real-world empathy, often speaking in analogies and offering practical steps wrapped in affirmation and gentle challenge. His callers are met with both candor and hope—always encouraged to seek healing and self-acceptance, even in the face of deep anxiety or family dysfunction.

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Episode Takeaways

• It’s common but not fatal to link love and sex—working through such confusion requires patience, therapy, and self-compassion, especially when old trauma is at play.
• Medication and recovery can temporarily disrupt sexual intimacy; relationships must weather these seasons with communication, flexibility, and empathy.
• Family and partner relationships should be navigated by tuning into one’s personal truth and taking self-care seriously—not by sacrificing oneself for others’ approval or healing wounds that aren't yours alone to carry.
• Set clear boundaries between professional and personal roles within families; don’t rush to offer “help” when it isn’t asked for. Instead, focus on building healthy frameworks for repair and conflict resolution in your own marriage.

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Transcript

[A]

I've been with my partner for almost two years. When I met him, I didn't know he was an alcoholic.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

He has now been sober for 134 days.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

But during one of his last benders, he told me that I confused love with sex. And that's true, probably.

[B]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health, on your relationships, on your marriage, on your kids, whatever you got going on. You want to be on this show, go out to John Deloney dot com, ask a S K, fill out the form. It'll come to the great and powerful Kelly and she'll get you on the show. Love to have you on. Take two seconds, please, please, please. And hit the subscribe button and the like button and all of that stuff, especially on YouTube. If you'll hit the subscribe button. It just kicks us up in the algorithm and it puts the show in front of more people. I'm so, so grateful for everybody that's done that. Thank you so, so much. We crossed a hundred million views last month. I don't even have a psychology for that.

[C]

It's mind boggling. It really is.

[B]

My mom does nothing but hit refresh all day and subscribe. Refresh and subscribe. She's got.

[C]

We love her.

[B]

She's getting after it. Dude. 100 million views. That is. Never mind. I was gonna try to do the math. Minus 17. I'm not that. Let's just go out to Salt Lake City and talk to Sarah. What's up, Sarah?

[A]

Hey. How are you?

[B]

I'm great. How are you?

[A]

I'm doing okay.

[B]

What's up?

[A]

So, a little background. I've been with my partner for almost two years, and when I met him, I didn't know he was an alcoholic. Oh, boy. And he's done rehab and, you know, couple stints in detox and stuff, but he has now been sober for 134 days.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

And he is working on his sobriety. He's going to aa. He's gone to an AA meeting almost all of those days.

[B]

How old are you guys?

[A]

I'm 49 and he's 56.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it does seem like he's actually working on sobriety, not just not drinking. So I'm super proud of him for that. But during one of his last benders, he told me that I confused love with sex. And that's true. Probably.

[B]

Can I do two things?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sorry to interrupt you. Whenever I hear something that I just need to hit a pause on, I want to hit a pause on it real quick. Okay?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Number one, you might confuse love with sexual at times. Almost every human on the planet does that. And number two, I put zero, none, zilch, stock in what somebody on a bender rips off at me. Okay. Okay, so whatever. You might confuse love with sex, very common thing. And it might be something relationally to work through, and there might be deep seated roots, blah. All that might be true. You don't get to lob grenades at me when you're not sober as a way to protect yourself. You get what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, I get it.

[B]

Okay, so keep going.

[A]

Okay. So in his last detox after that, they put him on Prozac, and it obviously drastically impacted our sex life.

[B]

Yeah, just crush your libido. Yeah.

[A]

And I tried to be okay with it because I'm seeing a lot of really positive changes. I'm seeing, you know, he hasn't missed a day of work in over four months now. He is, you know, he was home and present when we were together. He would cuddle me at night and touch me at night, and we talked all the time. And so I had all these different types of intimacy, but I didn't have the physical intimacy, like the sex part. I mean, he touched me. It wasn't like he didn't touch me, but I had a really hard time with it, and my anxiety played through the roof. And so he went off his Prozac, and now I'm starting to see that he is less present when he's home. He's still going to aa. He hasn't met with his sponsor in over a month now. And you know, when. When I talked to him about how I was struggling with the lack of sex life we had, he told me, you know, I'll talk to my doctor and stuff like that. And he doesn't really do that when he goes to his doctor.

[B]

How do you know so?

[A]

Because we talk about it afterwards, and I'm like, you know, hey, how'd your doctor's appointment go? And he's like, went, good, you know. Did. Did you ask your doctor about switching meds or doing something like that? And he goes, no, he doesn't like getting on a second medication to, you know. And I'm like, well, yeah, but we still got this problem and.

[B]

Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Sex is incredibly important to a relationship and different People have different libido. All that stuff is navigated in every marriage ever. Always, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you have a husband who's been an alcoholic for a long time, who's in treatment, who's also getting help for depression, who's also willing to touch you and, I'm assuming, satisfy you sexually, except for intercourse. Is that fair or no?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, so he just won't do anything at all.

[A]

Before he got sober? I would have said he would have absolutely done that, but no.

[B]

Okay, my question is. Or I guess my statement is this. This is a guy who's got. Has been running from demons for a long time. Is that fair?

[A]

Very fair.

[B]

He's got a lot of physical challenges. He's working through his body, both emotionally but also just. Just physically, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's gotta be a time of compassion and letting him get his feet underneath him.

[A]

And that's what I'm trying to do, but I can't seem to. I can't seem to do that.

[B]

Okay, tell me. Tell me about that. Let's take him off the equation. How does three months of no sex for somebody who's trying to not die, why does that set off every alarm in your body? Or. I don't say why. That's an unfair question, but where does that come from?

[A]

My ex husband, Kind of the same thing, you know, our sex life just dwindled to nothing. And so I was, you know, asking for date nights and things like that, and one time I asked him what turns him on? And we were laying in bed and I said, what's one thing that turns you on? And he couldn't really come up with an answer. And so a few minutes later, I went and sat on the couch. And then he came out and was really angry. He, like, hit a lamp in it, fell to the ground on the light bulb, shattered all over, and he left for like 24 hours. And then when he came home, I got the silent treatment for three days. And then when he started talking to me again about the stupid, mundane things, kids and. And grocery lists and things like that, I. I asked him if we could talk about what happened so we could try to find a way so it didn't happen again. And I just got the silent treatment again.

[B]

And so how long ago was this?

[A]

It was 2010.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I never talked to him about sex or anything ever again. I never tried to initiate ever. And we were together for another 12 years.

[B]

And so did you go 12 years in basically a sexless marriage, or did you go 12 years in a silent marriage where he got what he wanted whenever he wanted.

[A]

Was emotionally not good, but that was the only physical display of violence that there ever was.

[B]

Okay, so can I, can I, can I encourage you to take another track in your current relationship?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, here's step one. Ex husband no longer gets a vote in my current marriage period. Okay. And a note, that's easy to say. There's a whole bunch of work to be done there. I recently told somebody on a previous show, if this is something you want to consider, I wouldn't recommend it in a marriage bedroom, but there's something about. I wouldn't put his name on it, but maybe put a brick or a cinder block by your bed so when you open your eyes in the morning, you can see it and you can say, I'm not carrying you around anymore.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And leave that for a few weeks. Eventually that thing gets out of your bedroom and it's out like, I'm not carrying you around anymore.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The second thing is, if you're married to somebody and they're going through a pretty significant health crisis, this is male or female, and they're trying to stay alive, asking them to get off potentially life saving medication because I have to have sex right now or I get anxious, that's a problem for you and your doctor and your therapist to go talk through because every single marriage in the world has seasons of ups and downs and pregnancies and surgeries and grief and cancers and people that just have seasons where we're not able to be sexually intimate. And if your body goes into such, such an anxiety ridden response, which sounds like there's such an, a severing of an anxious attachment that just sends your body into like panic, if you will, then I want to go sit down with somebody and say, hey, I need to heal some of this old trauma. And I'd be willing to get to bet you can tell me if I'm wrong that your relationship with sex and intimacy, the, the alignment challenges you have. Your, your whole physical and emotional ecosystem around sex started way before your last husband. Is that fair?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. You have childhood crap around sex and abuse and things.

[A]

Not abuse, but I grew up in a really religious culture that I know has negatively impacted.

[B]

Okay. So here's what I want for you. I want you to have an amazing relationship to yourself and your sexuality and an understanding of what sex means to you in your body and your libido. And it's okay to have an off the chart libido. That's great, wonderful, awesome. And it's great to have conversations with your now husband who's taking medication and saying, like, hey, you may not be able to get erections during this time. You may not be able to have intercourse with me, but is there other things we can do? Is there other things we can do to be intimate? And you may not quote, unquote, be feeling it, but you also feel this relationship. Like there's all kinds of intermediary conversations. But if he is faced with I need to save my life or her life, it sounds like he's saying, I'll try to save hers, but it's going to cost it. You get what I'm saying? That's an impossible choice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what I don't want is two people who have some demons they need to work through trying to so codependently use each other to stay sir. To stay alive that you both burn to the ground in the process.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you get what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want you to love sex in your new marriage. And I also want you to champion your husband's health journey. And I want you to be able to see past this isn't forever, but this might be right now. And also I want your body to not go into full panic mode if you don't have physical intimacy to tell you that you're okay or you're still loved. Because despite his, his struggles with alcohol and despite his mental health struggles, it sounds like this guy loves you. Is that right?

[A]

Yeah, he does.

[B]

Does that feel crazy to have a guy love you so much he's willing to get off his meds and just tough it out for you?

[A]

Yeah, it does.

[B]

Yeah. He thinks you're worth it. He thinks you're worth it. I think you're worth it. But I also think he's worth it, too. So let me tell you something. You're not crazy for wanting to sleep with your new husband. And I can guarantee you there's millions of men listening to this call, thinking, what? You know what I mean? And it's not wise to ask him to. 130 days into a new sobriety journey, working with a physician or working with a mental health professional, finally gotten some low level SSRI that's going to help him. It's unwise to take him off of that immediately if it's helping in all these other areas. And it's not honest as a physician to say I don't, I, I, I won't have any other conversations right now. That's a, that's a strange approach. Unless the Physician says, hey, give it six months. Give it a minute to get everything stable, and then we'll start tinkering with things to get your libido back. But I want you to believe you're worth being loved outside of the bedroom. You get that?

[A]

How do I do that?

[B]

You got to sit down with somebody and start being honest. And you've been silent for over a decade or more because you learned if you ask even a. A remotely emotional question, somebody's going to smash a lamp in your face and then not talk to you because somebody told you as a little kid, we don't talk about these things. We don't look at these things. We don't even acknowledge these things. And they made you feel crazy for being curious or for wanting to explore or for liking sex. Are told something's wrong with you, and it's just false and wrong. But that kind of healing will come sitting down with a professional therapist. And here's how I think the trajectory will probably go. And if it goes this way, that would be amazing. That you sit down with your husband and you say, hey, I love you to the moon and back. And I'm watching you to take these steps to love yourself and to love me. And I'm so proud of you, and I'm so grateful. Thank you. I've also realized I've got some sexual trauma in my past, and I'm trying to get you to carry that. And right now, you're working on your healing. I'm going to go talk to a professional because I want to get well, too. I'm. I'm being inspired by you, and that will hopefully lead to y' all ending up together. And a marriage counselor, the marriage counselor's office negotiating, talking through how y' all are going to be married together and what sex looks like when he's 56 and he's taking medication and he can't get it up, but he still wants to love you and still wants to give you a good time. And what it looks like for y' all to talk about sex. And what it looks like when he wakes up on a random Tuesday morning and he's ready to go and how to approach you with it, like all those things. But all of this in your world, will start with you believing I'm worth the conversations. All these years, 46 years of squashing who I am and what I'm curious about, what I want to talk about. That was never your fault. Your parents should have talked to you about this stuff. Your abusive ex husband should have Talked to you about stuff. Okay. Do you believe me?

[A]

In my head, I do.

[B]

Okay, that's good enough. I'll take that. I'm good enough. That's good enough for me. I'm gonna hook you up with 3 months for free of. With my friends at BetterHelp, so you can start talking to someone today or tomorrow. Okay?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I am super honored to talk to you today. Okay.

[A]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[B]

All right, hang on the line and we're gonna get you hooked up with some better help counseling so you can, from the comfort of your own house on, on zoom or on on screen. You can get to talking to somebody asap. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come back, a woman is torn over becoming a kidney donor for the mother who hurt her. All right, time for a quick word about Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right to our doors? Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph, where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. You might get an email or a text or a phone call, and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's looking out for you, but they're not. With the new technological advancements, no one is really safe anymore. So what are we supposed to do? You can start controlling what you can, and you can learn how to be careful online and offline, and you can sign up on with Deleteme. I use and recommend Deleteme because they work in the background to reduce my online presence, and that way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data. Deleteme has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me, and when they found my stuff, they've removed them from hundreds of the sites. And this has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, stop the harassment, and stop the other online threats before they start and take control of your digital privacy. With Delete Me, go to join delete me.com DeLoney today for 20% off an annual plan, and that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's join delete me.com Deloney. All right, let's go to Kansas City, Missouri, and talk to. Well, well, well, My. Michelle. What's up, Michelle?

[A]

Hi, Dr. John.

[B]

How's it going?

[A]

I'm doing okay. I'm very nervous.

[B]

I. Don't be nervous. You're good. Actually, you Know what? You can be as nervous as you want to be. I haven't lost anybody yet, so I'm glad you're here.

[A]

Thank you. So I guess I'll ask my question and then I'll just go into a little bit of background here. So I need help deciding whether I should be evaluated to determine if I'm a donor match for my mother who is in stage three kidney failure. So just for some background, both my parents are alcoholics. They were very heavy. They were very much in their addiction for the majority of my adolescents. I've experienced a lot of verbal and emotional abuse and neglect from both of my parents when I was, when I was younger. In 2007, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. You know, she did the treatment and went into remission. And then some years later, she was diagnosed with heart failure, which led to her heart transplant in 2015. There were periods of time when they would not drink, but it's always something that they kind of went back to. She's never really lived a healthy lifestyle, like not eating healthy, not taking care of herself, not exercising, not addressing her mental health problems, not taking her medication properly. As a child and a teenager, I struggled with immensely with their alcoholism. When I was in the fifth grade, I began to self harm. They eventually found out, took me to a few counseling session sessions and it was never brought up again or spoken about. I continued to self harm until I was about 18. I moved out of my parents home and I haven't self harmed since. I'm not very close with my mother. I don't talk to her much.

[B]

So bring me now. I. I've got the full picture there. It's been a rough go. So how, how, how old are you right now?

[A]

I'm 31.

[B]

Okay. And how old is she?

[A]

She's about 62, I believe.

[B]

Okay. And I'm guessing she's in renal failure. Her kidneys aren't working anymore. Oh, yeah, you just, you said that already. So she's in stage three. And have they reached out to you as a potential donor?

[A]

They haven't necessarily reached out to me, but they have said you guys should be evaluated to see if you are potentially a donor. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. It's a tough one.

[A]

Yeah, there's lots of layers.

[B]

Well, can I peel back all the layers for you? Yeah, I want to wipe the table clean of all layers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. And the way you just. And, and as much for you as for everyone else listening, you gave me. You just like took a completely peeled onion and you layered it back together. For me, starting in as a kid, fifth grader.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All the way. 26 years later till you're 31 years old.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And then you've got a mother who's already had a heart transplant, who continues to drink, who's had cancer, who's had all these things. And the message that she needs to be a steward of her body has never gotten through. And I'm not going to blame her. She may be sick, she may be ill. I don't know what her child childhood was like, but. What. For whatever reason, she's continued to choose choice after choice to not go get well. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I want to take my arm and swipe the table, completely clean.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I want you to tell me, are you the kind of person that feels like you have to do this no matter what? Are you the kind of person who doesn't want to do this, but you got a little guilt, or who are you in this moment, faced with this decision?

[A]

So.

[B]

Because, listen, real quick. All of this other stuff is. Feels like you're trying to make a case for yourself as to why you don't have to or shouldn't want to, or if you feel guilty, you shouldn't feel guilt. And I want to get. I want to free you from all of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you want to do this thing?

[A]

I don't. I actually. I. I don't. I truly don't think that. Just.

[B]

Just say that. Just say that. I don't want to.

[A]

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't want to put a period.

[B]

At the end of that and just exhale for a second. Drop your shoulders. I don't. Now, when you say, I don't want to, whose voice is coming in saying, no, no, no, but you should. Whose voices are that? Is it your churches? Is it your friends? Is it a distant guilt, like written voice from your mom who's coming in and saying, countering what you don't want?

[A]

Mainly my siblings. My sister, to be exact.

[B]

Okay, tell me about that.

[A]

She's my older sister. I have asked her previous. She's aware of, you know, my trauma and my struggles with my parents. I've asked her previously if she would resent me in the future if I choose not to be evaluated. And she's essentially said that she. You know, she. She doesn't know. She can't. She can't tell the future.

[B]

Okay, let me ask you this. Do you have a close relationship with your older sister?

[A]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[B]

Okay. Which. That means. No. That means sometimes Y' all perform well with each other, and sometimes maybe you go to each other for comfort, but that's not a. You don't, you don't have a ride or die relationship in, in abusive households, sometimes kids huddle together and they become inseparable because they had to. And it becomes this lifelong bond. And other times they get split up. One becomes the caretaker, one basically becomes the parent of the household, one becomes the blamer, one becomes the peacekeeper, one becomes the. I'm out of here. And you may have seasons or moments where you're really tightly knit out of a shared traumatic experience, but y' all aren't close. Does that sound right?

[A]

That's very accurate.

[B]

Okay, so I want to challenge you. Why are you giving your sister a vote here?

[A]

Because I, I, I want to. I guess just I want. I seek a close relationship with her, and I always have.

[B]

Okay, stop right there. You want a close relationship with your sister, period. Can you drop your shoulders on that one?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're 31. You should have had that a long time ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the question I have for you is, does she want her close relationship with you?

[A]

She says she does.

[B]

Behavior is a language. Does she want a close relationship with you?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, can we just sit there for a second?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Because after your parents didn't show up for you, your parents were sick your whole childhood, your sister probably played a pretty maternal role in your life, making sure you were at school on time and making sure you were safe and you were driven to where you needed to go. And I can't imagine the nightmare that she doesn't want to be close with you either.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And can. It's real easy to be 31 and start to think what is so unlovable about me that both mom and dad and now her. I just need to tell you, it's not you. They have their own demons, all three of them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm sorry. You doing something that you don't want to do, and this is an extreme situation, you giving up an organ, doing a thing you don't want to do will not lead to this close relationship with your sister that you're so, you're so. You want that so badly, you'll give up a part of your body to a dying woman. You want it so badly. And I'm just telling you on the other side of that, that's not going to be the thing, because you have never been the problem in that relationship, and it feels powerless. Right. I'm sorry. Do you have younger siblings?

[A]

No. I'm the youngest.

[B]

Okay. How many you have an older sister? Do you have older brother? Older. Any other. Other older siblings?

[A]

Just an older brother and older sister.

[B]

What's your brother say?

[A]

My brother. It doesn't feel like me or my sister should have anything to do with it. He feels as though him being the oldest should kind of take over and see if he can be a donor, but he has his own health issues that would disqualify him from being a donor.

[B]

Okay. Are you married?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What's your husband say?

[A]

My husband absolutely does not want me to do it.

[B]

Okay. Of all the people you mentioned.

[A]

I.

[B]

Would take his vote into account first.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I would take your vote into an account. Into an account first. And my guess is your vote has been squashed your entire life.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. Now, I can't on this call tell you what to do. I'm not going to do that. And in my mind I might be thinking, you're crazy. You should give your.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

I'm not, but I could be. What I think about this doesn't matter. What I want to do is clear the deck and tell you that the choice is painful, but it's simpler than it seems. And if the outcome of I'm going to give a kidney to somebody who is desperate for life and he was life giving and I want to say there's an ROI on doing the right thing. That's not what I'm trying to say. But I'm willing to put my life and health for my family on the line because this is a person who is xyz. Then I will support you all day long. But I'll also support you if you say, I'm going to put a kidney on the table for somebody who A, doesn't care. B, I'm doing it not to save somebody's life, to give them more life, but I'm doing it to try to win favor with somebody else. I would tell you, don't do that. I'll support you in that, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I guess I mostly want to just give you a hug and say I'm sorry. This whole thing is a mess.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Because I've seen the other situation where parents, a parent needs a kidney or something needs some sort of support. And because of the legacy they've left for their kids, there's a line of kids and cousins like, I'm in. I'll. I will. I'm in. Right. And I hate. This is the world you've grown up in. It just breaks my heart for you. Breaks My heart for your sister, your brother. Makes my heart for your parents. Makes my heart for everybody.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So what are you thinking?

[A]

I mean, I think you just kind of solidified everything that I have. I have been thinking, um, you know, I have two kids, so I also have to think of my kids and, you know, what. What it could possibly mean for my kids in the future.

[B]

I mean, it could go both ways, Right? Let's say you. You're. You had a great relationship with your mom. Everything was totally different. One of the greatest gifts your kids could see is their mom. Mom's sacrifice. Like, that would be an amazing gift for them, too, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so your kids get a gift either way. Whether they see mom giving up one of her kidneys for one of her family members, that shows them the power of family and the power of sacrifice. Like, that could be awesome in and of itself.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And also you choosing not to. And maybe I don't know how old they are, but you explaining, here's my thought process. Here's why I am opting out of this situation. Here's why I'm not even going to get tested. My family has pretty much excluded me my entire life, and now they're trying to draw me back in because I have something they want, Whether that's money, whether that's a kidney, whether that's job success, whether that's fame, whatever that is. They're trying to draw me back in to use me for a thing. That's a great lesson for them, too.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But I also feel a little bit of guilt that if she doesn't pull through and ends up passing, that they. They. I mean, she doesn't have much relationship with them as it is, but there. There goes their grandma. And I maybe could have helped save her.

[B]

So fast forward a year. She's got your kidney. Is she out running around with those kids? Is she calling them over to see her?

[A]

Probably not, no.

[B]

Is that heartbreaking to even think about? Yes, of course. The challenge is by doing something really courageous and brave, like donating a kidney, which I'm in high support of, the. The act of. Right. I think it's a noble, awesome thing. Bone marrow, all that stuff is doing it for codependent reasons or doing it to try to perpet, Further perpetuate or kick down the road a fantasy. Now everything's going to be okay. Now my sister's going to finally love me after 31 years. Now my mom's going to finally start being a good steward of her body, even though with her heart transplant and this and this and this. She hasn't. Now, my older brother is going to think highly, like these things aren't going to come to come to fruition. Now, even if your mom never changes and she's not been there for you, she struggled with addiction, she has got a new heart, got a new this, got a new this, cancer survivor, all these things. If you said, I want to do this because I think it's right, knock your lights out, I'll support you. And hopefully if you sat down with your husband and said, I know and I know and I know and I want to do this thing, he would say, I don't want you to do it, but it's your body and I will stand here with you. I'll hold your hand through and before and after the surgery, I would hope that would be the case. So I don't want to say you only do nice things to people if there's an ROI in it. Like you're going to live a healthy life. Sometimes you just do the next right thing. But I guess what I want to free you from is you have any obligation to fulfill some fantasy of a repaired relationship worth being loved. All these things, you're not going to get that externally. And I just hate this whole situation for you. So thank you so much for the call, Michelle. I wish you the absolute best in whatever you decide to do. And I guess I'll just lean on you and tell you, choose guilt over resentment. You're going to feel guilty either way. You're going to feel guilty no matter what decision you make. Which one of these decisions are going to lead you to a place where you absolutely resent yourself and your situation and your family members and which one of those are you going to feel? Guilty. But no pun intended, you're going to be able to remain whole. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come back, A woman is unsure of how to help her future in laws without overstepping. Oh, boy, this will be a good one. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right. Everybody in the world is talking about therapy these days. And I often hear folks say, I don't have any major traumas in my life. I don't think therapy is for me. This is super important. Therapy isn't just for people dealing with major traumas. It can be for that. It has been for me. But it can also be a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional and relational well being. I see a therapist for both the big challenges from my past as well as helping me navigate the day to day challenges that pop up in my life. And many of you should see someone too. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist. Just for them to get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time, easily and for no extra cost. Talk it out with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, let's go to Columbus, Ohio and talk to Alexis. Hey, Alexis, what's up?

[A]

Hey. How are you doing?

[B]

Remarkable. How are you?

[A]

Not too bad. So I just have a situation I wanted to get some advice on. My fiance's dad has been in and out of the hospital the last two or three months. In and out of rehab, different things like that. And I'm just struggling with trying to find my place and trying to be supportive not only to my fiance, but to his family as well, without kind of overstepping my bounds. So I just wanted to get your take on that.

[B]

How do you feel like you're overstepping your bounds?

[A]

I feel like I tend to get more worked up. I'm learning than some. Like, what I'm finding is that his family, their dynamics are different than mine, obviously. But I'm learning in their family, they tend to get riled up on things that aren't necessarily an issue. I'm struggling with getting straight information from his mom or his sister or even him sometimes. And so I'm just trying. I feel like I can help. I have background in social work. I'm a social worker for. I'm trying not to be that person. But I also.

[B]

You are. You're a trained social worker. That's how you guys are. Y' all want to help everybody.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like there's a need to be supportive. I'm just trying to figure out, okay, what's too much and what's, you know, not enough.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I just.

[B]

There's. There's three big challenges here. Okay, here's challenge number one. You have to hose your boots Off. What do I mean by that? If you're a social worker by trade, when you walk in the door, you're a fiance first.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Okay. And so I have, like, the number of times my wife has said, I don't need any of that counseling crap in here. She was right. And that was on me. I gotta. I gotta unplug.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My dad was a homicide detective, and so whenever he wanted to find out who ate the last, you know, Peppermint York, like, it was like, all right, everybody line up. Like, hey, dude. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta turn your professional thing off when you walk in the door. That's number one. Number two, I have a rule. You can adopt this or not, but as a mental health professional, there's always gonna be somebody somewhere that you think I can help. That's why we got into this job, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You will become the most annoying person at every party, every church gathering, every. Everything if you don't adopt this. But you don't have to. I'm just telling you, I've learned this the hard way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I only answer questions I'm asked.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I only enter into help if I'm asked.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Unless I see a dire emergency. If someone's like, a truck's coming, I'm going to shove somebody out of the way.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But if I hear somebody like, dude, my wife is. Fill in the blank, xyz. And I'm like, you're a dummy. You should not have done that. I used to just be like, hey, let me tell you something, bro. I don't do that anymore. Unless you're one of my core, core, core friends. Okay. Here's the third thing. And you can tell me if I'm wrong. Almost always in these situations, you find out who you're married to or who you're marrying as potential life transitions and. Or tragedies emerge. And you have to be honest. If you're asking yourself, is this how he's going to handle things if we ever have kids and one of our kids gets sick?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I potentially get cancer one day, is he just gonna bury his head in the sand, too? And that relationship issue is what you really need to drill in on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell me if I'm right or wrong there.

[A]

Nope. You're right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That. I see a lot of the. Burying the head in the sands, not only, like, with my fiance, but with his dad even, who's sick, his mom. Like, they're very slow to speak up, very slow to ask questions or you know, kind of get to the bottom of things. And so I feel like, okay, maybe they just don't know the language. Maybe they just don't know what to ask. But.

[B]

Or maybe. Or maybe they just don't care. Or maybe they don't want it. Yeah, that's heartbreaking. The question you have to ask is, do you want to be married to somebody who has that road map and who's unwilling to invest and learn and challenge themselves to develop a new roadmap? And that is the harder conversation.

[A]

Yeah, I figured it was something like that.

[B]

And so here, here's an amazing way, like, here's how I would have that conversation. Something along the lines of I am seeing a pattern that I would love permission to talk about, but it involves talking about your parents. Is that okay? And he might say, I don't want to talk about my parents. You might say, okay, I want to talk about you and me, though. And so at some point we need to have this conversation. Will you tell me when it's a good time? And then I'm coming back to you in 24 or 48 hours. And then to be able to say, I watch, I'm watching a pattern emerge. I'm no better than anybody else, but I'm watching that when scary medical news comes up, scary financial news comes up, scary whatever. Your parents bury their head in the sand. They don't want to ask questions, they don't want to try to solve the problem. And things just kind of is what it is what it is. And I see that same tendency in you. And that makes me nervous for our future because I want to be with somebody that faces problems head on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's a scary proposition of a conversation, isn't it? Okay.

[A]

Which off and on we've kind of broached that subject. Like, this has been going on, I mean, obviously for the last few months, but recently there was an issue that came up. And so over the last few weeks, we've been kind of having that conversation. We're in premarital counseling.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Kind of perfect timing, perfect for things like that to be brought up. And so it's an ongoing kind of conversation. Neither one of us have a ton of long term relationship experience. And so I think we're struggling with coming together versus maintaining, like our independence and stuff like that in a lot of ways, where I'm used to handling certain things with my family. But then I don't want to interject my opinion on what's happening with his family. To try to be like Intrusive. But we're supposed to. To come together and, you know, have a foundation of a stance on certain things. We're just, you know, kind of talking through a lot of those things. And he isn't typically one to speak up. Since we've been together, he's been more outspoken. He used to be very. Before, you know, we got together, he used to be very just quiet. He kind of let everything around him kind of happen, and now he's more outspoken about it. But I think it's also just a learning curve for both of us practicing that.

[B]

That's. That's the best you can ask for both of you. Right. The thing I always want for couples is, not especially in premarital counseling, is not to have. I mean, you're. You're basically planning for the first three months or for six months, like, who's going to pay what, who's going to hit send on the bills. Right. And what bank are we going to use? And we're both going to share a checking account. Right. And are we going to pay off our student loan? Like, there's six months of mechanical stuff. Right. Logistics. The bigger thing I want people to get from premarital counseling is a framework for repair. There will come a time that one of us hurts each other more than off, more than once, more than 20 times over the course of our marriage. How will we come back to the table? Or when I see a side of you that I don't like? How do I bring that to the table? How do I give you bad news? How do I give you. I just. I did something and I need to ask your forgiveness. That's what I'm interested in in premarital counseling, especially for folks who are getting married a little bit later. I say later. It does. There is no breaks anymore. But, like, who have established their own independent identity, their own lives, they paid their own bills for years, and now they're joining. Joining two people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm more interested in. Do you all have a framework for when we find a disagreement? Do we have a way that we can talk about it, that one person doesn't try to beat the other person up? The other person doesn't stick their head in the sand or whatever? Right. And so he might be practicing becoming more outspoken. I'm way more interested in his actions.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And there it goes. It sounds like Kelly's been out driving again in the background. She's not a great driver.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But you get what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I get what you're Saying, I think we in. We've kind of gotten to the part in premarital counseling about, like, conflict resolution, communication, all of that. I tend to be like, want to talk about it? He tends to. What I'm learning is I bring up something, he wants time to process it. So we're. We're in the middle.

[B]

Okay, so here's the compromise there. Here's the amazing compromise. I'm. Me and my wife are the exact opposite of you two. I want to talk about it right this second. She needs about 48 hours. And so the compromise is making sure when I say something hard to hear or I put a concern down or I put a. I'm sad or frustrated about this particular thing, and she needs time to process it. Making sure we have a day or a time on the calendar when we will come back.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because sometimes I just need some time to process. It becomes a way to stall out and not deal with it. And also sometimes me needing to talk about it all right now is less about solving the issue and more about me vomiting on somebody. And so me saying, hey, I've got this issue, and my wife's saying, yikes, that's big, or that's heavy, or any time to process that. I don't even know how I feel about that. I need 48 hours. We're gonna go to breakfast on this day, and we'll talk about it. And that puts a boundary on her. That puts a boundary on me. And so if your husband or your fiance needs time to process, hey, we have to talk about this. I'm struggling with your parents. I'm afraid that's gonna become us. Whoa, That's a lot. And to process it. Okay, let's put a date and time on the calendar that we're going to circle back and talk. And that. That bounds it. You get what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And I think it's. I think it also would be a little bit more reassuring to me, like, okay, we're going to have the conversation.

[B]

It's not just going to be a dot, dot, dot forever.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. That is what I struggle with.

[B]

And by the way, it also gives him some freedom that he doesn't like. I shoot from the hip. My wife does not that. And so she has, at times felt like she's got to enter into a firefight, and that's just not how she rolls. She's a sniper. She shoots you and you're not looking three days later. Right. I just want to have a duel at sundown today. Right? Now, Right. And so it gives her. It gives her peace, too, that she doesn't know. She knows she doesn't have to respond in real time in a debate right away. And both of us walk away from that exchange with peace. So you can ask through your in marriage counseling if this is a 24, 48, or 72 hour issue. Like, if you came in and said, hey, I think I have feelings for a co worker right now. We need to talk about it, he might say, that's a 72 hour issue. If you came in and said, your parents have struggled with alcohol, I've seen you drinking a lot more. He might say, ah, you're right. I'm. Oh, God. That's a 48 hour issue.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You relate. On paying the water bill again, I want to be the person who hits the thing like, whoa, that's a lot. And I feel ashamed and blah. That's a 24 hours. You all get to decide. But just giving those three frameworks, and I just made that up on the spot. That doesn't have to be what you all do. But having a couple of buttons y' all can push will give you some freedom in that negotiation. But all that to say is to recap. I don't answer questions I'm not asked anymore. I don't interject in people's relationships unless there's a stone cold emergency anymore. If somebody is lecturing me on the virtues of a vegan diet, I just let them rip. If someone's like, you know what's the best ever? Carnivore? If you eat fiber, you're gonna die. I just. Whatever, dude. Knock your lights out. I saw a meme recently that Keanu Reeves is like, life is too short. If you tell me five plus five is eight, I'm gonna nod and say, that's great. I'm gonna walk on. I don't have time. I don't have time for it unless you ask me, hey, what's five plus five? I'm gonna tell you the answer. And most of the time, my relationship projections are me trying to protect myself from having a hard conversation at home with my wife, with my kids. Thanks for the call, Alexis. You're awesome. And best of luck to you in these upcoming conversations. And by the way, good for you for having premarital counseling. Everyone should do that. I didn't, and I regret it. And I think everybody should have some premarital counseling as they're entering into that important relationship. We'll be right back. All right. Everybody talks about how important supplements are. But most of what you see on the supplement shelves in your local grocery store is garbage, fancy labels and cool names with zero substance. I'm not playing that game. And neither are my friends at Thorne. I've been taking Thorn supplements for more than a decade. They're pure, they're clean. And I trust Thorn supplements enough to give them to my family, including my kids. Whether you're a serious athlete or a mom on the go or a dad trying to show up at work and for his family after a long day at work, you deserve the absolute best. And that is Thorne. 35% of Thorne's employees work in quality control and they reject up to 4 15% of their raw materials. Because good enough isn't good enough for Thorne. It has to be world class. And it's why professional athletes, olympic teams and 60,000 doctors plus trust Thorne. And it's why I have been trusting them too. Stop guessing what's going into your body. Take what it needs and nothing it doesn't. Go to thorne.com youdeloney to get 25% off your order when you create an account that's t h o rne.com/the letter u/deloney. All right. Something cool happened. What is it, Kelly?

[C]

All right, so we just got this letter yesterday and I wanted to read it. This is from Justin. He called in about two years ago. He was training to be a pilot and had an accident, some things that happened and was no longer going to be able to do that as a career and he was completely unmoored and didn't know how to move forward when that was all he wanted to do.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[C]

I wanted to send an email to express my gratitude and appreciation for your show and how much I've taken from it as well as to give an update. Since I had called into the show a little under two years ago, I called in to ask Dr. Deloney how to move forward after losing my dream career of aviation due to medical and mental health related reasons. Therapy, though it was something I had avoided being in aviation ended up helping me move through the identity crisis and some trauma related effects. Even after significant progress, I was still wondering what the future held. But I was impacted by the effect counseling had on me and had begun pursuing it as a career. Watching your show, I found myself drawn to crisis response and now this is my long term goal in this field as well as being an advocate for mental health and aviation. Fast forward to now. I just wrapped up my master's degree in counseling psychology.

[B]

Yeah, dude.

[C]

And will begin Working as an associate doing critical incident stress management.

[B]

GISM skill I've wanted to learn since.

[C]

I first heard about it. I certainly have been given this last season to grow in empathy and discernment and to witness firsthand how deep the trenches can be, but also how many tools there are to acclimate and build something new, as you've always said. But the most important and most prominent theme that I've seen is that of redemption. After I lost aviation, I kept hearing the phrase, everything happens for a reason. Not that I don't believe this, but that phrase put a huge amount of stress on every decision that came next. What if I choose this new job, but the reason I lost flying was so that I could do this other thing and I screw it all up. Over time, I was overwhelmed with every decision because I didn't want to mess up, quote, unquote, the new plan. In time, I found that I had to rest in that and to trust that even in the uncertainty, there is redemption, even if you are unsure. To me, more digestible than everything happens for a reason is the idea that redemption lies in everything. Use discernment, of course, but redemption remains steadfast in whatever path you choose. Win, lose, or draw. Rock on, Justin P.S. gibson over Fender. All day long.

[B]

All day. This guy's awesome. Booyah. Dude. That's fantastic, dude. I remember my old critical incident stress management courses, man. And those were wild. And for those of you who don't know, like, that's when people show up when a plane is crashed in a local area or a. But there's a big bus wreck or there's a shooting. And you're responding not only to the people on the ground who are in the middle of that incident, but also you're responding to the first responders who are responding to that incident. And so, yeah, those people who are trained in CISM who run into those situations and then even run into the second ring of those situations, man. Amazing, amazing, amazing. And I don't want to open a theological can of worms, but I'll never forget the guy when I was trying, I was younger and I was wrestling with what should I do about this? And this. I've been praying for this direction. And this may not be everyone's theology, but the guy said, has it ever occurred to you God doesn't care what you do for your little American job? He cares who you are wherever you happen to find yourself. And by the way, if he wants your attention, he's going to get it. And for whatever reason, that just Freed me from this. We talk about calling, and this is. I'm inside Baseball for Faith Communities. So if that's not you, you can hang up. You can go on to, like, Huberman's podcast, whatever you listen to. Next. Next. This. We talk about calling as though, like, God hid it from us. Like, it's an Easter egg. Like, you gotta find it. I gotta find it. And it's like, nope, not over there. And it's like, ooh, you're using drugs now. Like, not over there. That's not how it works. It's madness. It's not like this Easter egg, like, is hidden. Something like, you gotta find your calling. You gotta find your passion. Most of us are passionate about the things we do that we're good at, and most of us get good at stuff with the things that we practice. And almost all of us practice things that somebody made us at some point and it was uncomfortable. And I don't know, like, that phrase, like, has ever occurred to you. He doesn't really care. Like, there's hungry people. Just go do your job and be a great human being while you're doing it. And I don't know. That just freed me. I don't know if that's in the Bible or not, but it felt right. I tell you that. Kelly, to tell you I'm glad you're a part of this show, and if you felt called to do it, God bless you.

[C]

Well, Dave did call me to do it.

[B]

Well, you made that weird, so Hope that was. Oh, that was good. Bye.