Greatest Hits Vol. 3: John’s Favorite Calls of 2024

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show – Greatest Hits Vol. 3: John’s Favorite Calls of 2024

Introduction

Released on December 25, 2024, "Greatest Hits Vol. 3: John’s Favorite Calls of 2024" is a special edition of The Dr. John Delony Show, hosted by Ramsey Network. This episode compiles some of the most impactful and memorable listener calls from the past year, focusing primarily on complex relationship dynamics and mental health challenges. Dr. John Delony, alongside co-host Kelly, delves deep into callers' personal struggles, offering insightful advice and guidance.

Featured Calls

1. Eric’s Story: A Struggle with Infidelity and Marital Rebuilding [03:02 – 17:03]

   Background: Eric, a 23-year-old from Jacksonville, Florida, reaches out to Dr. John after engaging in a one-night stand with his wife’s stepmother. The incident occurred during a family gathering where excessive drinking led to impaired judgment.

   Key Points:

   • The Incident: Eric explains how drinking led him to a vulnerable moment where his wife’s stepmother’s bikini top fell off, resulting in an unwanted sexual encounter ([04:22]).

   • Consequences: Recognizing the gravity of his actions, Eric admits that rebuilding the marriage is unlikely, stating, “Your marriage is over. You're not going to rebuild this?” ([04:22]).

   • Emotional Turmoil: He expresses deep regret, referring to the event as “my biggest, dumbest decision” and struggles with self-forgiveness ([04:37]).

   • Current Status: Eric and his wife are in a state of limbo, cohabitating but emotionally distant. They are attempting to maintain civility for the sake of their daughter, with no immediate plans to divorce ([06:28]).

   Dr. John’s Guidance:

   • Accountability and Integrity: Dr. John emphasizes the importance of treating his wife with dignity and respect, suggesting actionable steps like giving her space to heal while maintaining responsibilities ([10:19]).

   • Emotional Self-Management: Encourages Eric to engage in acts of service and community involvement to rebuild trust and his own self-worth ([17:03]).

   • Long-Term Rebuilding: Advises that rebuilding a marriage after such a breach is a lengthy process, requiring consistent effort and a focus on doing the "next right thing" for all involved, especially their daughter ([16:54]).

   Notable Quotes:

   • Eric: “I just can't think of not coming home to my daughter every night and not come home to my wife every night.” ([07:36])

   • Dr. John: “You have to be a grown man. You're 23. You just blew your family up. You have to say, okay, I'm gonna do the next right thing.” ([07:36])

2. Heather’s Case: Business Betrayal and Marital Discord [23:15 – 34:23]

   Background: Heather calls in after discovering that her husband excluded her from the ownership and decision-making of their jointly built business. After 30 years of marriage and partnership, Heather finds herself marginalized as her husband prepares to sell the company or pass it entirely to their daughter.

   Key Points:

   • Lack of Transparency: Heather reveals that her husband never discussed business plans or ownership, leaving her uninformed and disenfranchised ([25:01]).

   • Emotional Impact: She expresses feelings of betrayal and dishonor, grappling with the realization that her contributions over 30 years were undervalued ([25:41]).

   • Legal and Financial Concerns: With the business valued at approximately $25 million, Heather is uncertain about her rights and future, especially with the impending sale favoring their daughter ([33:51]).

   • Family Dynamics: Heather notes that her daughter supports her husband’s decisions, exacerbating her sense of isolation ([30:35]).

   Dr. John’s Guidance:

   • Legal Action: Recommends Heather consult with an attorney to understand her legal standing and explore options for equitable distribution or business ownership ([31:05]).

   • Emotional Support: Acknowledges Heather’s feelings as valid and encourages her to seek professional support to navigate the emotional turmoil ([32:10]).

   • Strategic Response: Suggests preparing for difficult discussions and potential conflicts, emphasizing the importance of protecting her and her other children’s interests ([34:23]).

   Notable Quotes:

   • Heather: “I am dealing with a sense of betrayal. I am dealing with a sense of dishonor.” ([27:41])

   • Dr. John: “Your feeling of betrayal is real and it's right.” ([32:10])

Expert Insights: Relationship Dynamics and Mental Health

Beyond the featured calls, Dr. John Delony engages in a profound discussion about the neurochemistry of relationships, particularly focusing on the stages of falling in love and maintaining lasting connections.

• Stages of Love:

  • Initial Attraction: Driven by testosterone and estrogen, sparking basic attraction ([38:10]).

  • Euphoria and Anticipation: Norepinephrine induces feelings of excitement and anticipation, often leading to impulsive actions like excessive texting or overthinking ([38:47]).

  • Serotonin Decline: A drop in serotonin levels results in rumination and obsessive thoughts about the partner, sometimes misconstrued as clinical depression ([39:16]).

  • Bonding: Oxytocin facilitates deeper bonding, fostering a sense of kinship and long-term commitment ([42:29]).

• Companionate Love vs. Passionate Love:

  • Dr. John distinguishes between passionate love, which is intense but fleeting, and companionate love, rooted in deep friendship and mutual respect ([47:10]).

  • Emphasizes that enduring relationships rely on establishing a best-friend foundation, contrary to the often superficial portrayals in media ([48:30]).

• Emotional Self-Management:

  • Advocates for active management of emotions through practices like approaching rather than avoiding conflicts, especially during low emotional periods ([52:34]).

  • Highlights the importance of the prefrontal cortex in regulating emotional responses to foster healthier relationships ([51:01]).

Conclusion

"Greatest Hits Vol. 3: John’s Favorite Calls of 2024" offers a compelling blend of real-life stories and expert advice, addressing the intricate challenges that couples face in maintaining healthy relationships amidst personal failings and external pressures. Dr. John Delony's empathetic yet firm guidance provides listeners with actionable strategies to navigate their own relationship dilemmas, emphasizing the importance of accountability, emotional self-management, and the foundational role of friendship in enduring love.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Eric: “I just can't think of not coming home to my daughter every night and not come home to my wife every night.” ([07:36])

• Heather: “I am dealing with a sense of betrayal. I am dealing with a sense of dishonor.” ([27:41])

• Dr. John: “Your feeling of betrayal is real and it's right.” ([32:10])

• Dr. John: “Doing the next right thing is all you can do.” ([17:03])

This episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone grappling with relationship uncertainties, offering both solace and practical advice to foster healing and growth.

Transcript

[John]

Ho ho ho. Is a special best of my favorite calls.

[Kelly]

Everyone's favorite. I had a one night stand with my wife's stepmom.

[John]

Oh, yeah, that's the one where stepmom's top just fell off.

[Kelly]

He didn't have a choice.

[John]

I, I, what up? Ho ho. Oh, it's Christmas Day. If you are listening to this episode, you're probably having one of those Christmas days. I'm so glad you're here. I'm kind of hoping you're not listening today and you're with your family and the snowflakes are falling and there's chestnuts on fires or whatever. But I'm so glad you're with us. This is a special best of my favorite calls from this past year. 2024. Kelly, Merry Christmas.

[Kelly]

Merry Christmas to you, John.

[John]

And also with you. All right, so we've got these calls here, I guess. Was that like a Catholic Christmas? And also with you?

[Kelly]

Yeah, I don't think they say that anymore, but.

[John]

And with your spirit.

[Kelly]

And with, and with your spirit. That's what they say now.

[John]

Oh, dude. That's kind of a Catholic flex. Ben. Way to go.

[Kelly]

Well, like John was it? John Mullaney said, because that's what needed to be changed in the Catholic Church.

[John]

So we have our the best calls of the year. Right? Or my not the best, but these are your faves.

[Kelly]

This is the ones you picked?

[John]

Yes. All right. And so give us the rundown of.

[Kelly]

A couple of them. So we have everyone's favorite. I had a one night stand with my wife's stepmom.

[John]

Oh, yeah, that's the one where stepmom's top just fell off.

[Kelly]

He didn't have a choice.

[John]

I.

[Kelly]

Who'S the real victim here, John?

[John]

I don't know how to say this gently. I think that most, one of the, one of the greatest engineering feats in human history is the, the bikini top, the bra strap. Yeah.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[John]

I just think many, many bridges have been built using similar technology. Right. They don't just fall off is what I'm trying to say.

[Kelly]

No, no, no, no.

[John]

Fascinating call.

[Kelly]

Who else we got a woman who feels completely betrayed by her husband.

[John]

Oh, I thought you were going to say by her coworker. And I was going to flip it around. That feels.

[Kelly]

No, by her husband. So we'll have to, you'll have to listen and figure out why.

[John]

And then we, we, we touch on the great Arthur Brooks.

[Kelly]

Right. Because everybody loved the Arthur Brooks interview. So in this one he's going to talk about why marriages fall Apart.

[John]

That's so good. All right, so if you're listening on Christmas Day, we're glad that you're with us. I totally get it, man. Glad that you're with us. Go for a walk down the street. Tell everybody you're doing something really, really important. And check out my favorite calls of 2024 and merry, merry Christmas. Let's go out to Jacksonville, Florida and talk to Cam. What's up, Cam?

[Eric]

How's it going, Dr. John?

[John]

I'm good, brother. What's up, man?

[Eric]

I guess I will just cannonball right on into this one. The question is, how do me and my wife rebuild our marriage after I had a. A one night stand or like a hookup, I guess, with her stepmother.

[John]

Eric. Let's just, as they say, back that thing up. Say what?

[Eric]

Yeah, really just a wild situation.

[John]

In all seriousness, like what, what happened?

[Eric]

We were all drinking together, we all got a bottle of tequila, three of us within the hour. And then it was just me and her stepmom in the. In her apartment. My wife went downstairs with the kids and all that good stuff and they were swimming and basically she was asleep and I was on the couch just waiting for her. I was going to wake her up for her work call. She was like supervising or whatever and had to end up like send a closing email. So I was standing there making sure she woke up to do that. And when she woke up, her top fell off. She was wearing a bikini. Her top fell off and put it back on. And then I kind of like pursued after that. And so your.

[John]

Your marriage is over. You're not going to rebuild this?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[John]

Yeah. I mean, I can't think of a more egregious violation, man. I can. Kids and beyond kids, this.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's definitely.

[John]

Yeah, you've blown it up. I think the integrous thing to do is to treat your wife with dignity and respect as you all make. I mean, I can't think of them or like just dishonoring thing you could do to somebody, man.

[Eric]

I agree. It was the most. My biggest, dumbest decision I've ever made. My biggest regret. And I just.

[John]

How long you been married?

[Eric]

This year would be five years.

[John]

Those kids yours?

[Eric]

It was her. One of them is. And she was with my. Her little brother and sister as well.

[John]

Okay, so your wife has two kids by somebody else?

[Eric]

No, she. She. There's three down there. One. It was just one. That was our daughter. That's the only kid we have. And then the other kids were her stepmom's kids.

[John]

Okay.

[Eric]

Her brother and sister.

[John]

So obviously, you know, this. This is just, like, insanely sensational, and it's going to make for good YouTube clips and all that. And you also know that what you did is, like, it's just the lowest thing you could do to somebody, but. So I'm not going to kick you while you're down anymore. Like, what's the world been like since then?

[Eric]

I just been trying to figure everything out. Been really, really hard. I mean, I. You know, I've been trying hard to forgive myself and to, you know, just work on myself is all I can do at this point. I mean, I. Me and my wife are cohabitating right now. We're still in the same room and stuff. We've been able to go and do things together, and we've been civil and been, you know, nothing. Nothing crazy. Our marriage wasn't perfect before this, by any means, obviously, or this wouldn't have even been close to happening.

[John]

But is your wife want to stay married to you?

[Eric]

She's in limbo right now. I mean, what.

[John]

What's the limbo?

[Eric]

We just need to work on our. So we've been attached at the hip since we were 17 and really lost ourselves in our relationship. We just got, you know, got together real quick and moved out of state after that real quick. And then had a baby by 18. And so our whole life was just each other and baby. And then.

[John]

That's not a bad thing. And that's not a reason why you hook up with somebody's mom.

[Eric]

Not at all. There's never a reason why that it should not have happened. There's no. I'm not trying to make any excuse. I've tried to take accountability from the. You know.

[John]

Sure. I'm saying, like. I'm saying, like, the. There's like, this just annoying cultural narrative, like, you got to go find yourself. I mean, you don't. You. You make a commitment with somebody, and you'll figure it out. Right. Y'all decide. We're gonna build something together. So what do you want to do next?

[Eric]

I want my family more than anything, and I understand that. I've blown that up, and I'm just trying to. I just can't think of not coming home to my daughter every night and not come home to my wife every night. Like, it just doesn't. Life doesn't seem like there's. Obviously, there's more to go, and there's. I mean, I'm. I'm. I'm 23, about to be 24, so there's there's more to go.

[John]

You're a quarter way. You're a quarter of the way done. First quarter.

[Eric]

I just can't see life without them, okay? I really can't.

[John]

I, I. Because you'll have a child together. Unless you're going to abandon this child, you will be in each other's lives forever.

[Eric]

Right?

[John]

All right. So that's, that's, that's a given. I don't know. Unless y'all have some sort of defining. The only word I could think of right now, and this isn't accurate, this isn't right, but this is the word that's in my head. You'll have to have some sort of line like I'm thinking of. The word funeral keeps coming to mind. You have to have a funeral for what was, what we had is over. And as you described it, the stumbling from 17 into 18 to oh my gosh, we're parents, to trying to make it all work, to I got really wasted and hooked up with her mom, like that is all over. And you, you got a. Dropped into a cold plunge like you're an adult, right? And when you're 18, 19, 20, and you have a little one, it's easy to kind of still be a kid, but also be a parent, you know, I mean, like, you're a grown up adult who may have just blown up his whole life.

[Eric]

Definitely. Boop.

[John]

His whole life, Right. So there has to be some sort of line drawn. This was. And now this is, and that might be you sitting down saying, okay, I have blown up our life. What we had is over. Both of us have to be adults and sit at this table and decide what we're going to do next. Do you want to be married to me? And she's probably going to say, I don't know. Because the thought of answering that question is she knows her life is different now is blown up, but I don't know that she's metabolized it. Right.

[Eric]

That's definitely taken some time. It's only two months ago on the 8th.

[John]

And the fact that the knife that cut her is still sleeping in the same bed, it's just really close. So it might mean you going saying, I'm gonna take 30 days for you, and I'm gonna go live with my mom, with a friend, with whatever, and let the smoke clear.

[Eric]

Right. And we, we did that for about two weeks, I would say. And then my staying at my mom's and she lives off a dirt road, though, and a bunch of storms came through and made it Pretty inaccessible to get through, especially with my car. And so then went to the couch and then kind of went from there, went back into the bed and whatnot.

[John]

It doesn't sound like she's ready for you to be back yet.

[Eric]

Yeah, partially. I mean it's.

[John]

Does she work?

[Eric]

Not as of now. She's been at home with her daughter. She's going, I think she's actually starting today to get her ged. She's going the local schools out here and doing the testing and stuff like that.

[John]

Okay.

[Eric]

She didn't get it.

[John]

So she's taking the GED today.

[Eric]

Yeah, sure. She's like, it's starting the classes. I think she's like taking the pre quizzes and pre tests and all that stuff to see where she's at.

[John]

So I want to challenge you, okay. I know that the life of your daughter will be different without a dad in the home. Okay. I know that. I also know that a wife living in terror of her marriage will negatively impact your daughter as well. And so I can imagine your 22 or 23 year old wife hearing the most insane news ever and having to stay in the same lion's den of the lion who just mauled her present and her future. Because she has no money, she has nowhere to go.

[Eric]

Right.

[John]

And so part of me thinks it would be of high integrity to you for you to say, honey, I. You're trapped. And I know that. Is she still flinching around you?

[Eric]

There are good days and bad days. We've been able to go to the movies and we were just able to, you know, this last week we went to the Escape Room together and went to dinner and we're still doing things like that and able to laugh together. And I've been able to be intimate and hug and kiss her. And then other days it's not going like that, which I completely understand.

[John]

I want to challenge you to sit down with your wife and say, you've heard me say this before, but I want you to hear me say it again. I blew our lives to smithereens. And my ultimate dream is that you will rebuild something new with me. But I also know that you need time to breathe. So for 30 days, I'm going to go live here and I'm going to take care of all the bills at this house. You're not going to worry about anything. I want you to be able to breathe. And I'm going to write you a letter every day and put it in the mailbox. I would love for you to write, maybe you present her with a nice journal, like something you go somewhere and buy a nice one today and put it on the. On the. Like. I want you to get this stuff out of your body and write down, because I know it hurt you bad, but if you keep hovering and she is legitimately trapped as a 22 year old with. With a high school diploma. Does she even graduate high school?

[Eric]

No, sir.

[John]

Okay. She's got nothing and she has to tread water. You've heard of fight or flight, right?

[Eric]

Right.

[John]

There's another one called Fawn, where you have to nuzzle up next to the person who just tried to kill you or just blew up everything because you got nowhere to go. It's the safest place for you.

[Eric]

That's her.

[John]

Okay. Do the next dignified right thing and give her a chance to breathe and make sure she's got no worries when it comes to money for the next month.

[Eric]

Okay. And I guess I have a kind of a wimpier question for you based off of that then. Hi. I just feel like we. We've both agreed, like, established that we're both just codependent on each other and that, you know, I don't know, it's just hard for me to, like, you.

[John]

Don'T even know what that means. Dude, that's. That's. That's a couple of 23 year olds googling what that term means.

[Eric]

Very true.

[John]

Okay. You don't even know what that means. So don't. Don't try to give any diagnostic excuses. You got to be a grown man. You're 23. You just blew your family up. You have to say, okay, I'm gonna do the next right thing, which is to let my wife stand back up on her own two feet because I knocked her down. And then we're gonna come to the table and I'm gonna say, I'll do anything it takes. What does rebuilding trust look like? And after 30 days of the smoke clearing and her catching her breath, she may look across the table and say, nothing. You slept with my mom.

[Eric]

Right.

[John]

Or she might say, here's what it's going to take. I'm going to need this, this, and this, and this. And then you as a grown man have to make a choice. Does that make sense?

[Eric]

It does. And I'm not trying to minimize the situation or make an excuse, but I didn't fully sleep with her mom.

[John]

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It happened.

[Eric]

And it's try to take accountability from the beginning and just.

[John]

I know.

[Eric]

Go from there. I told. She didn't find out or anything. I, like, sat her down and told her, which also doesn't make a difference, but.

[John]

Right. I mean, it is what it is. What it is. And you need to understand from her perspective, she lost her mom, too.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[John]

Like, she's lost everything.

[Eric]

And there's past trauma from her stepmother as well.

[John]

I would. I would imagine so. I would imagine so. And so I think that we're doing the next compassionate right thing, which is you're going to have groceries, the rent's taken care of, the bills are taken care of. You're going to be able to breathe. Even if you want to go one step further, which I think you should, I'm going to help with child care. Whatever you got to do. I'm going to give you 30 days. And then at the end of 30 days, I want us to go eat breakfast at such and such place. And I want us to ask the question, we going to stay married. And I want you to tell her I hope we can. And I understand we got to rebuild everything. Okay. But I want youall to have a date on the calendar when y'all going to come back together.

[Eric]

Right. That makes sense.

[John]

And say, text me if you need me to come get our little girl. But we're not sleeping together. We're not hugging and kissing. We're not. We're just taking a break. Is that cool?

[Eric]

It's gonna suck, but if that's what's needed, I'll do absolutely anything to. To move on from this, even if it's not in the direction that I'm hoping for.

[John]

Okay. The thing you can do next, you can't undo what happened. The thing you can do next is be a person of high integrity and honor moving forward.

[Eric]

And that's been eating me alive, too, because I, you know, it's thrown my moral compass so off because I've always told myself I wasn't that person. I would never be able to do that. And, you know, I've looked down on others that have done that, and like, okay, well, they can do that to the person they say that they valid everything to. They can do that to me.

[John]

That's right. That's right. And so you. You are now have to reestablish trust with you.

[Eric]

Right. And.

[John]

And that means you have to do the next right thing. You. You can't will it or you can't think it into being. You just have to act it. You have to do the next trustworthy thing. I've often found trust rebuilding. If you have other people in your life that you've wronged, it'd be a good time to get on the phone and call them and say you're sorry. It's doing the next right thing. Next right thing with your wife and with your kid, it is going to do some acts of service. So twice a week I want you to go, go to a, a food kitchen. I want you to go do the next right thing that's bigger than you so that you can reestablish trust with yourself. If you go to local church, once you go sit with a pastor and say, hey, here's what I did, man, I blew up everything.

[Eric]

That was one of the very first things I did good. I went there, talked with him, with the therapy immediately. We've done couples therapy, we've done try to do that stuff. And couples therapists didn't really seem to help that. She didn't really give any, you know, tools to use or any kind of plan of action to.

[John]

Yeah, sometimes going to couples therapy right after something this big is like trying to go PT instead of into surgery. It's like being in a car wreck and going straight to the physical therapist. It's not time yet, man. They still got to. You got to reset the bones and stitch somebody up and take out all the bad tissue, let those wounds heal and then you can start going to physical therapy.

[Eric]

Right?

[John]

Like, it's just, it's just a matter of going too fast, man. Yeah, I think you can do the next right thing, man. And I hope more than anything that your daughter doesn't grow up without a dad. And so if your wife decides, hey, I just can't move past this, such a, such a horrific violation of our marriage covenant. I hope you will honor her and say, I get it. And I'm going to be the best dad and co parent I can be. I'm going to be an adult. I'm gonna be a grown up. Even though I'm sad and I'm heartbroken, and I hope you will do the things you gotta do to rebuild trust in yourself. And maybe by God's grace, she comes around and says, okay, I'm gonna go. Slowly but surely, we're gonna rebuild this marriage. And here's what trust is gonna look like. Re establishing trust, you can't drink. I want to see your phone, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And you're gonna say, cool, I'm a hundred percent in because I believe in you. And I believe in us. And I believe in being a good dad. This is a big one, man. It's a big one. Go slow. Go slow. You will not fix this in 2 months, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year. It's gonna take a long time to rebuild this. Constantly focus on doing the next right thing for you, for your daughter, for your wife, for your marriage. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. Hey. Oh. I'm a founding member of the get off the Internet and go outside club. I think I'm the only member. And yet I, like all of you, find myself at work and in my personal life, pretty much living entirely on the Internet. And as a society, we're creating more and more online accounts all of the time. We're signing up for promos and giving away our emails and personal numbers and buying everything with our phones. I get hundreds of emails to my personal account, my business account. Every business wants to survey me and become my friend now. And everyone everywhere is trying to sell me all kinds of stuff and it drives me nuts. And with all of our online activity, do we really know where our data is and who has it? Chances are high that data broker websites have your information and they're selling it to scammers, spammers, and other shady people. But when you use Delete Me, Deleteme will find and remove your data from hundreds of sites. And they will send reports to you throughout the year to show you exactly what they've removed and from where. As of now, I'm getting fewer and fewer of those spammy texts and phone calls which allow me to let my guard down just a little and feel some peace on the Internet this holiday season. Share the piece by giving a Delete Me subscription to someone you love. Individual delete Me plans start as low as nine bucks a month. Go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney today for 20% off. That's JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney Christmas time is here. There's parties. There's buying last minute gifts. There's being sad that nobody bought you anything. There's traveling, running around, all of it. And there's so much going on that we can forget to set aside time for what's truly important. And the good news is that Hallow is here to keep your spiritual priorities in check with you this holiday season. Hallow is the world's number one prayer and meditation app. I use Hallow every single day. I love it. And right now, their Advent Pray 25 challenge called for. God so loved the world is in full effect. Plus, Hallow has great book studies led by Bear Grylls and Jonathan Roumie. They've got prayer guides, a Bible study on the book of Ephesians going on, kids advent programming and more. And if that's not enough, you can join Hallow's 12 Days of Christmas music right now. Listen, this season can be an amazing time of chaos and, and an amazing time to encounter God's love and find the true joy of Christmas. And Hallow wants to help you experience all of this for three months for free right now when you sign up at hallow.com/deloney, you can enjoy all of this for three months for free at Hallow. That's H A L L O W.com/Deloney. What's up, Heather?

[Heather]

Yes, hi, Dr. John. Thank you for taking my call.

[John]

Thank you. Beautiful. What's up?

[Heather]

Well, I have been married for many, many years.

[John]

And how many is many? That's. You said that perfect.

[Heather]

50.

[John]

Congratulations.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[John]

Oh, maybe, maybe not.

[Heather]

Well, here, here we go.

[John]

Okay, I retract my congratulations.

[Heather]

Of course, of course. My husband and I, we, we started a business about 30 years ago. I left the job that I had to help start the business. And as you know, over a 30 year time period, we had our ups, we had our downs. We came very close to bankruptcy twice. I took my pension out of my job that I had for the company. I used inheritance that I had for the company. And fast forward to today. The company is doing fabulous, just fabulous. Our daughter came in and she's been helping us and we've been doing really great. And in the process of us doing really great, we're kind of thinking about selling the company or giving it to the daughter to carry it on. So we're not sure what direction that's going to go. But the reason I'm calling is my husband gave me a document as to how things were going to go when we sell the business.

[John]

He had what?

[Heather]

Yeah, yeah. He had money divided into trust. And he, he, he never, he never spoke to me about what was going to happen. In fact, the way he told me was that he was the only one on the corporate papers and I had no say.

[John]

Your name's not on the business?

[Heather]

No.

[John]

Oh, sweet Heather. Oh, man, what a mess.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[John]

Why did he suddenly start flexing on you this long? Has he always run, run, run like this, or is this new behavior?

[Heather]

No, this is, this is the way he runs.

[John]

I'm instantly thinking of a woman I sat with who was married to A man who's a bit older than her. He had vast wealth, was very wealthy, a good man. I knew him. He's a friend of mine. He's an older guy. He passed away, and he actually left everything to his wife. She couldn't afford to buy groceries because of the process of unwinding everything, like, it wasn't in her name. And even though she was a beneficiary, I remember sitting with her saying, she's saying, I don't have any money in the checking account. And so that naming became really important because it allows you to maneuver. It allows you to make decisions. He dropped dead today. And, man, you've got a business that's not yours. Your name's not on it. Now, it technically would be yours, and it'd get all probated out, and it'd be a big old mess. And that's assuming your daughter didn't suddenly have a flip, a switch, which I've seen happen a jillion times. But why in the world is. Is your name out on the business?

[Heather]

Well, I think when we started, we had really no money and we just got a. Like a boilerplate form.

[John]

Sure.

[Heather]

And he put his name on everything and didn't put mine on it. And I didn't really think about it.

[John]

I don't blame you.

[Heather]

Although I did have a friend who knew my husband 30 years ago and said, you better get your name on that paper. And I, you know, pushed that under the rug. She was absolutely right.

[John]

So you're here. How can I help you?

[Heather]

Well, I am dealing with. I am dealing with a sense of betrayal. I am dealing with a sense of dishonor. And. And I am trying to. To navigate how I go forward to. To deal with someone who has totally dishonored me.

[John]

Yeah, you don't navigate that. You head directly through the middle of it. And if y'all been together 50 years, you're probably gonna have to get an attorney or possibly your daughter walks with you. You have to be prepared for him for this to go caustic, is basically what I'm saying. And I don't know what kind of guy he is. Meaning.

[Heather]

Well, she's.

[John]

Go ahead. What'd your daughter say?

[Heather]

I was going to say the daughter's going with him because he's leaving a big percentage of the business to her.

[John]

But it's not his to leave. It's yalls to leave.

[Heather]

But that's not what he's saying.

[John]

What are you supposed to do in retirement when he drops dead, which, statistically speaking, he will Long before you.

[Heather]

Well, he's going to have a trust. He has a trust set up. And I would.

[John]

Oh, cute. He's going to. He's going to continue to pay you an allowance out of your business.

[Heather]

Yes. Yes.

[John]

That's madness.

[Heather]

Yes.

[John]

I hate that it's taken 50, man. We could sit together for a long time and unpack this one. Is this one of those situations where this is devastating and not surprising?

[Heather]

Correct.

[John]

Yeah. So I think the question you have to ask yourself is, are you going to go to war or not?

[Heather]

I'm a little too old for that.

[John]

I don't. I'm. I'm worried about you. I'm worried about you, because this is 50% your business.

[Heather]

But that's not what he's saying.

[John]

I'm telling you what is legally accurate. I don't care what he's saying. He's proven his character. I'm. I'm just shocked by it, to be honest with you. It just. It just doesn't make any sense to me how people run like this. But I guess you could sit across the table from him and say, hey, you gave me this piece of paper. I'm a co owner of this business. I reject this. And if you want me to get an attorney, us Go to court to figure this thing out, we will. And you're going to burn up a huge chunk of your assets, probably to the point we have to sell this business to cover your legal fees. But I reject this.

[Heather]

Yeah. I think. I think that's what I'm gonna have to do.

[John]

And your daughter's going along with it? She. Is she cool with cutting you out?

[Heather]

Yes. Yes. Because the way it's written, she's going to benefit from it. From the way he's planned it.

[John]

Oh, man. Because my hope in this situation is she would call time out and say, this isn't right.

[Heather]

No, man. And I have other children.

[John]

What are they saying?

[Heather]

They are. They're not even talking to them right now.

[John]

Okay. I am never a fan of doing things behind us. Another spouse's back. That goes against 99.9% of, um. Just the way I roll. But I think you need to call an attorney and figure out what the next right step for you is. I think you need to set up that consultation and pay that fee and walk through it. And if you have your tax returns from the last few years, I would take them in and explain your situation. Here's what this business is worth.

[Heather]

Mm.

[John]

Because they're going to run a net present value on the business, and Say, okay, it's worth about this if you were to sell it. And here's the path, here's your legal path in this state for sitting down with your husband saying, actually, this is what's going to happen next. And I don't, I can't give you legal advice. I don't know enough. I'm not that smart. What I can tell you is your, your feeling of betrayal is real and it's right.

[Heather]

Yep.

[John]

Your feeling of dishonoring is right. You're feeling of that my husband and my daughter's hanging me out to dry here is right. The idea that you've put your entire life, including your inheritance, your money for a thing y'all built to find out you're gonna get an allowance from your daughter when it's all said and done. No way, dude. No way. No way.

[Heather]

That's how he has it set up.

[John]

Yeah. No way. What did he, what does he say to you? Why does he think so little of you?

[Heather]

Well, because he believes that he's the one in charge and he doesn't think that I would be able to run the business without him there and that the daughter needs to be running the business. And I believe she should run the business because he's been training her for years and I think that's great. But to totally take away, you know, any stock or any, any ownership at all, everything, he's giving everything to her and, and she knows how I feel about it, so it's not like she doesn't know. She does know.

[John]

Yeah, I mean, I, I just know about homes. I don't know about businesses in Michigan, but I can see a scenario where it gets down to a forced sale of this business. And that might cost you marriage.

[Heather]

That's the dilemma I have.

[John]

Yeah. What's the business worth?

[Heather]

About 25 million.

[John]

Yeah. So it might cost you your marriage, but you might be sitting on the sidelines with 12 and a half million dollars. I can't tell you what to do here. I can just sit with your heart broken.

[Heather]

Well, you've confirmed what I thought I'd have to do. And I do appreciate your, your time.

[John]

Yeah. I'm heartbroken with you, my friend. I wish 50 year marriages were honored, not worked around. I, I, I, you know, I, I work here at Ramsey Solutions and I listen to, you know, Dave Ramsey's been on the air forever and he's, he's fond of saying Sharon Ramsey hasn't worked a day of her life outside of the home. She's worked like a mad house for 40 years inside the home. Right. I just can't imagine I that playing out that way. Like, there's a lot wrong with this picture, but it starts with the dishonoring of you. I'm sorry.

[Heather]

I appreciate your call and your advice.

[John]

Yeah, I would call somebody today. I would not go to that by myself either. If you have another child that would go with you, preferably a girlfriend that would go with you, but I would not go to that meeting by yourself because you're going to hear different things and you're going to have a mix of anger and rage and heartbreak and you want somebody else that's going to be able to be present, fully present there with you taking notes as well. So don't go to that meeting by yourself, but do make that call and yuck. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, this time of year, most of us just want to stay in and get super cozy. My perfect cozy night at home is something that me and my family call bed pile. And that's when my whole family gets under some blankets around the fire and we either read some books out loud like a bunch of nerds or we watch a movie together. For a lot of people, though, it's hard to get cozy around the holidays because they're battling loneliness, they're battling grief, they're battling lost memories. If that's you, I want to encourage you to reach out to a therapist today. Therapy can be a safe place to settle in and work through scary, hard and painful emotions and replenish your energy and take care of yourself. I recommend BetterHelp to help you find comfort during the chaos and stress that can be attached to the holidays. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find comfort this holiday season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney. You meet somebody and you're taken by them and they're clearly taken by you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[John]

Walk us through the brain chemistry from there to. Oh no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah. So typically, know that 59 of these relationships are starting online now. 59. It's eating the world. So that's how it's happening. But still, between 15 and 20% of relationships that end in marriage start at work. So these are kind of in person, you know, these are not media. You probably not falling in love with somebody on the zoom screen. It's still. When you're going to a place and you meet somebody and you're both available, or ideally you're both available because most affairs actually started. We can actually talk about why that happens neurochemically. So, okay, so the way that it starts is the ignition of relationships, of romantic relationships is it has to do. It's hormonal, and so it's testosterone and estrogen and, you know, the sex hormones are the ignition of attraction, basic attraction. And so we're uncomfortable with that because that, you know. What does that mean? That. That seems sort of unseemly. No, that's. That's natural. That's biology.

[John]

So you. And I'm attracted to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You're attracted to another person right now. If that's all it is, then you're going to end up in relationships that people regret that are not. That are not healthy, et cetera, et cetera. Generally speaking, when you're attracted to each other and get to know each other a little bit, then the second stage happens really, really quickly, just within days. Ordinarily, that involves two different neuromodulators, which is dopamine and norepinephrine. Those are two neuromodulators. Euphoria, when you see somebody. And anticipation. Anticipation, euphoria. Everybody who's listening to us, watching us right now has fallen in love. Almost everybody. And it's like, can't wait.

[John]

Can't wait. Can we?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's like, I've just got it. The text just came in. You know, I think that's that person. I'm. You see the person from afar and you have that weird feeling of euphoria and anticipation.

[John]

I didn't know. I didn't know. Adrenaline is in on this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah. Norepinephrine. Not. Not epinephrine. Norepinephrine, which is, you know, related. Of course. It's all from the adrenal glands. You know, it's highly related.

[John]

I didn't know that was. I was part of the game.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[John]

So that's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You gotta get.

[John]

That's gas.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's gas. And what that's doing is it's taking you then to step three, which ordinarily will start happening a couple of weeks in. Once you're dating and know each other.

[John]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then what happens is this crazy thing where there's another you. You implicate Another neuromodulator, but it doesn't increase. It plummets, falls off a map. That's serotonin. So now everybody knows. At this point, they think they know that clinical depression implicates serotonin. So serotonin levels are too low in the synapse of the brain. And for, you know, blah, blah, blah, gobbledygook, what's going on is when people take antidepressant drugs like Prozac, that's supposed to increase the amount of serotonin in the bloodstream that's in the synapse.

[John]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so what? And why? Because there's all this evidence that when. When serotonin levels are low, you're going to feel sadness, you're going to feel rumination, ruminative sadness. Now that the part of the brain that's implicating is a thing called the ventral lateral prefrontal cortex. It's literally a structure in your brain dedicated to rumination. I'm so stupid. I can't believe I did that. My life has been a mistake.

[John]

What's the. For lack of better terms, evolutionarily, that would preserve us, that would keep us in the tribe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, well, not necessarily. What it does is it makes you learn from your mistakes. When you ruminate on something that happened in the past, you learn. Learn from something that didn't go right so you don't do it again in the future. And. Yeah, but it has other functions as well. That ventral lateral prefrontal cortex, that's. It's ignited when serotonin levels fall. Okay. Another thing that it does is it involves creativity. Creativity is rumination. So you're thinking about a business plan. You're thinking about writing a poem, a symphony.

[John]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the same structure in the brain. Rumination.

[John]

She broke my heart.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or it's just like, I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it. And when you're falling in love, this is step three. So serotonin level falls, the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex lights up like a Christmas tree. And you ruminate on the other person because you're bonding on the other person. You're bonding to the other person. Now it makes you do the insane things like, I just sent 100 text messages to that person. And I humiliated myself in the last hour because I was so freaked out about the fact that she didn't answer me, that he didn't say anything to me, or that he didn't sound right in that last call. He didn't sound right in that last call.

[John]

So I said, nowadays the text message didn't look right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It didn't look right, whatever it is. Because we have a million ways to ascertain what's going on and what the reason that ordinarily you'd be like, I don't know, whatever. I'll figure it out. Which you would. In ordinary life, you can't do that because you're ruminating so much, because your ventral lateral prefrontal cortex is turned on so high, because your serotonin levels have fallen, because you're bonding to the. You're imprinting on the other person. That's what's going on. You're writing a symphony in your brain about the other person.

[John]

The other person, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And your brain looks like you're clinically depressed in step three, right? That's the reason that people are like, it's so wonderful. It's so terrible. That's why it hurts. It's misery. And if you stayed there for the rest of your life, you'd want to die. You would literally want to die. What you're trying to get to is the step four, where you have other hormones and neuropeptides. For example, oxytocin, which is a bonding hormone that says, this is a member of my tribe. This is my kin.

[John]

So that's when you're low. It's. It's met.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, well, that's when what. What will happen is you. You start to recognize somebody as your partner after a while, you have to go through these steps. But step four is the bonding that actually is involved in. In the. The. The. The production of oxytocin. So that's what you're trying to get to. That's what you want to get to. 1, 2, 3, 4. It's wonderful. It's terrible, it's frightening, it's exciting. That's the whole thing. But. But again, remember, you and I know because this is our world. Psychology is biology. It just is. And you're doing all this stuff. You're not an idiot. You know, you're falling in love is the way that this works. If you understand this, you can manage it better.

[John]

Do you want to, though? Because I feel like. I feel like that's what eharmony does.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, well, eharmony doesn't do this necessarily, because it doesn't actually take us through the steps.

[John]

Right. It drops you off. But I remember I skipped a final to go get coffee with my wife. And I literally rationed, like, yeah, I'll talk to professor. We'll figure this out. And it. That makes. If my son was like, dad, I met this girl. I'm gonna go get coffee. I would say, please, please, please go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Take your father off your final. I know, but.

[John]

Right. But also I threw away a full. A full 100 track scholarship to university because I met a girl at a summer camp. Yeah. And you know what I mean, you're romantic. I'm so bad. I'm so bad. I threw it all away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y. And I quit a job and moved to Spain.

[John]

It made perfect sense. And I have my life because of it. And it's completely irrational. It's insanity.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I get it. No, no. And. And for sure. I mean, you can manage it to a certain extent. The real problem, by the way, I guess when two people are falling in love, but they're at different speeds going through the neurochemical cascade.

[John]

That was my dean of students job. Hey, this guy keeps texting me and I don't want him to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's happening? There's a. There's a whole. There's a syndrome, actually that's identifiable in the literature called hemophilia. Not hemophilia. It's not a blood disorder.

[John]

No, it's. It's romance. Emo. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What it. Yeah, exactly. What it means is that, that, that you. You fall in love too quickly. And there's a non trivial number of women who suffer from this and they just go 1, 2, 3, 4.

[John]

Off the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the guy's like, we just met.

[John]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so the result is they get into relationships with what we call dark triad personalities. They're men who have high levels of narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. The red pill boys, they have psychopathic traits and they feed on this. That for women who go right through the scale. And so a lot of what I'm doing is I'm saying if you've got this thing, you need to manage yourself because you need to understand yourself.

[John]

Gotcha.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you need to understand the people who are going to prey on you, because they will. You'll be a magnet for dark triads. And it'll be like every boyfriend I have is a psychopath. But it's literally true.

[John]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not because you have bad luck, but because you're blinking light that says psychopaths. Welcome.

[John]

And here's. Here's the. I feel like 95 of this show has become unhollywoodizing everything. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[John]

It is not sexy. Every morning. Like I would eat my body weight and gummy candy every day. It's It's a problem. Love it. I have to decide am I going to do that or not? Right. There is no Hollywood movie that I know of that's worth watching that somebody says, hey, I need to consciously and intentionally limit myself to three text messages a day to this person that just doesn't exist. It's. The question is always, how do you feel? How do you feel? How do you feel? And I feel like in our culture we chase feeling off a cliff because that same feeling shows up this way. But that same feeling showed up for me 10 years in when I didn't feel it anymore.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[John]

And then the. Your colleagues are like, well, then I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Guess it's not a soulmate.

[John]

Or they say the. What I think is the most insane statement these days is that relationship just ran its course. Like they. They don't just stop. Right. People quit. Right. And that's fine if you want to quit. But this idea that there's just a natural lifespan to some of this circle, it circles back to. You have to know what you're talking about to then say, okay, oh gosh, that's me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[John]

And I'm not insane or broken or crazy, but I have to. I have to be intentional about it for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, that's why self. Emotional self management is so critically important. That starts with knowledge. That's why, you know, I do the science. I don't do the science because it's, you know, whiz bang, super cool. It is, yeah. I do it because it's in the public interest and art. We get a better world when people fall in love and stay in love. That's it.

[John]

But we have to call it that. We have a. Bodies built for scarcity when it comes to food.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[John]

That's not our environment anymore. Right. We have bodies designed for. There's two suitable mates in this tribe, and dad and his dad's gonna pick them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[John]

And that's not our world anymore. So we have to build.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[John]

Structures.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. The thing that you're talking about that's really important that I talk about with a lot of my students, a lot of people. You know, because I'm on the road all the time talking about these things with young people and. And not so young people because everybody wants love. You know, people my age can fall in love just like a kid.

[John]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, because the brain's the brain. So the thing that I talk about is what's the realistic expectation as you've gone through this neurochemical cascade? And you want a Relationship to endure as opposed to simply be established. You establish a relationship. What do you want it to be? What's the goal? And the answer is generally between two and five years after the initiation of the relationship. You don't want passionate love. You want companionate love, which sounds. My kids have heard me say this. They're like, dad, that's not hot. Yeah, companion love has tons of passion in it. But companion love is based on best friendship. That's what it's based on. The foundation is friendship, the foundation of enduring love. Enduring romantic love is friendship. Here's the reason that people will fall in love and then will break up and realize they hate each other. They don't just, like, whatever. They hate each other. The reason is because they're disappointed about the fact that they actually were incompatible as friends. And they've slept together, you know, they've traveled together, They've done all this stuff. They told each other their secrets, and they're not even friends. They don't even like each other. Other.

[John]

And the other side is, I talk to couples and, like, y'all sleep together how many? Like, three times a year. And they're like, dude, this is my best friend.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This my best friend.

[John]

Right? And it, like, we figured out what works for us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, They've. And. And, you know. And that sounds awful.

[John]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what's more awful is not being able to stay in love, not being able to actually have a best friend, not having the person who truly understands you at a deep level. Now. It's better. I mean, marriages tend to be happier when they're based on best friendship and where they're still sleeping together.

[John]

Of course. Of course.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. But the truth of the matter is that you can't make the enemy the perfect enemy.

[John]

The good. That's right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right when we're talking about these things. So there's all sorts of ways to organize your life, but a marriage cannot be organized over the long term around something that's not deep friendship. That's a constant.

[John]

That is so countercultural.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Totally, totally, Totally. I mean, it's got.

[John]

That's madness.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not Disney. That's not Disney. It's my best friend. I mean, that's not the end of the film. It's my best friend. It's like, dude, I don't know. That's not happily ever after in the movies, but that is happily ever after in real life.

[John]

I've got a few best friends. We've been friends for 30 years. Right. We still get together a couple times.

[Eric]

A year.

[John]

And we live all over the country. We've all done stupid stuff to each other, said stupid things. That's not funny, man. But like, but we have a couple of non negotiables that have emerged that like, you can raise kids, you can bury parents, you can go through cancer together, but if this singular thing happens, I guess none of it, right. It. Everything feels so disposable. But I keep looping back to. As you're talking, he just keeps looping back to how does this feel? And where's the passion? Where's the passion instead of where's the foundation? We're going to figure this out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, right.

[John]

We're going to work through it and maybe what we had is over. We're gonna build something else. Of course, because we said we would. Right? Yeah. And that does not seem to be having lived that. Yeah, I get it. It's one of the hardest things for me to try to distill down and explain in a simple way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it is. And this is one of the reasons that couples that are formed in religious communities, they tend to do quite well, Right. Because they have this supernatural basis for the relationship as opposed to the feelings basis for the relationship. If your assumption is that my emotions are be unto you.

[John]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because that depends on what you're digesting.

[John]

Life of hell.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's terrible. It's terrible. By the way, this is not just about marriage. This is not just about relationships, work, everything.

[John]

Everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everything, everything. Look, emotions are produced by the limbic system of the brain, a structure of tissue evolved between 2 and 40 million years ago. It's designed to take signals that come from the outside below your level of consciousness and translate them into a language that says either you should approach or avoid a thing.

[John]

Right. Don't die.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what emotions are for. Emotions are for two things. To keep you alive and get your calories and find mates so that you can survive and pass on your genes. That's what emotions are for. Biologically, that's what emotions are for. But we've built them up into this like, cosmic thing. No, no, man.

[John]

Their job's not to tell you the truth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, the job is, all it is, is to keep you not dead. You know, and so the whole point is you have a prefrontal cortex in your brain where the tissue right behind the bumper. Right brain. 30% of your brain by weight. That's what makes you human, is the prefrontal cortex, as opposed to being a squirrel or something right behind your forehead. You want the emotional information to get to your prefrontal cortex so you can decide, what do these emotions mean, where they come from, what am I going to do and should I disregard them? But if you're living according to your emotions, you're. Man, you're the squirrel, right? You know, it's like, got to get enough sleep with them.

[John]

Sleep with them, Sleep with them. No. We just met, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I'm not feeling it today. That's okay.

[John]

That's okay. Go work it out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Go work it out. Or, you know, what do I want to be tomorrow?

[John]

I don't feel like it today. Put your phone down and look at your kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah. One of the things that your prefrontal cortex can do that your limbic system can't is when you have. And by the way, this is one of the great secrets of the most. The marriages with the greatest longevity.

[John]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you feel avoidance, you practice approach. That's what great marriages have in common. And that's pure prefrontal cortex. So your limbic system says, avoid, avoid. You're annoyed. She bums me out. She's irritating me. She's on my case.

[John]

Dishes in the sink.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want. It's like I'm just going to go down to the man cave and watch a game.

[John]

That's it, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no. That's when you say, bring it in.

[John]

I'm going to go hug.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was like, I'm going to. I love you. That's when you say. You say I love you most. When you feel it the least. It's like there's a. You can get one. I have a. I have one. Touch flower ordering on my phone.

[John]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I touch a button on my phone and flowers go to my house. My house.

[John]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And. And I do it not when I'm feeling the. The greatest warmth for my wife, but when I'm feeling the iciest.

[John]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For Esther. Like, I've been married almost 33 years at this point, so, you know, I got a lot of tricks under my belt. It's like click. It's like I'm not feeling it. Click. Right. And because I want to practice approach when I'm feeling avoidance, unfortunately, Esther's figured it out.

[John]

Well, but. But. So I was like, what's wrong?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got flowers.

[John]

I was traveling, and this. I just. I just flew in this morning. I was traveling. And you know those traveling phone calls you get a little short.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[John]

And I was short, and I didn't like it. I don't have. I don't know how these phones work. And so the guy who travels with me, I was like, hey, do you have that thing where you can order food and send it? Well, you send ice cream to my house. And he's like, okay, 21st century, dude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[John]

And so anyway, I got a message later that was just all hearts and it was like a hey, thanks is awesome. And. But it was that I can stew, I'm on the road, I don't have to see anybody. I can just be all dramatic. But that's anxiety, right? That is every. I don't want to work out. I don't. If you head into it, it's always on the other side of it. And it's never the other. It's never avoidant. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And this is, this is how, you know, the, the master of your brain is governing the emissary. You know, when the prefrontal cortex is mastering the limbic system of the brain. Look, you need emotions. You'd be dead without them. Absolutely. You'd be dead every week without them. Right. I mean, and people who want to live without so called bad feelings, they don't understand emotions. But these are physiological responses to the outside world. You need to govern them using your full capabilities. Abilities. Your full capacities. That's what it means to be fully alive. That's what it means to be a human. Right. And when you're watching the movies that say go with your feelings, you're going to screw this up and you're going to be unhappy.

[John]

What's up? What's up? Hey, Dr. John DeLoney here. I am stoked to be coming to you live with my friend Dave Ramsey on the Money and Relationships tour. You, the audience, are going to get to vote right from your seat week live and tell Dave and I what you want us to talk about. You can pick from topics that impact your life the most, like boundaries, raising emotionally smart kids, money, anxiety, and so much more. We're getting real about real life and we're not holding anything back. It's all going down April through May 2025. We'll be in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Prices are the lowest they'll ever be right now, so grab your tickets [e-mail] tour. That's ramseysolutions.com tour all right, pa. No, listen. If you stay with us this long on Christmas Day, I'm so glad you did. You listened all the way through. Can we all just agree that wherever we happen to find ourselves over the next day, two days, three Days when the Little Drummer Boy comes on in protest, we're gonna walk out of the room.

[Kelly]

Okay, hold on. I have a question. So if you don't, like. We know what your least favorite Christmas song is. What is your favorite Christmas song? What's one that just fills your heart with holiday joy?

[John]

Up on the housetop rain like that song. I don't know why, but it's in my soul. Out jumps good old Santa Claus. That is not.

[Kelly]

Anyway, what I expected.

[John]

Well, I used to lay in bed. I used to lay in bed and wait for the clip clops. And my dad used to be like, hey, man, if you listen real quiet, you can hear the deer hooves on the roof. And I used to try until I just went to sleep and I just. That song, like up on the House Top, ah, it just. It gets in my soul. That's my jam, dude. That's my jam. Not Perumpa Pump. And by the way, listen, we just clear this up. There's nobody still listening, but there's six or seven of you who are having a rough Christmas day. You're still with us. Listen, listen. I know there are various pop versions and rock versions and metal versions or whatever of parumpa pum pum. Little Drummer Boy, you. You can armor all. You can shine up. You can wrap a dog turd in the nicest leather. It's still a dog turd. You can have the greatest. The song still sucks so bad. So everybody on the Internets are gonna send me notes like, what about this version? What about this? Great. I probably love the band. I probably love the band. I just think they're incredibly misguided by all getting together and be like, bros. You want to record a Christmas song? Yeah. What do you got, Drummer Boy? Yeah. It's my favorite. It's not. It's not. It's not. If one day some of my favorite punk and metal bands decide to do up on the Housetop Reindeer Paul, oh, that would crush. But anyway, hey, love you guys. Merry. Merry Christmas. Seriously, take your headphones out, turn this off, and go be with people. Or the woods. Go for a walk. Do something. Love you guys. Bye.