Greatest Hits Vol. 4: The Best of 2024

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show: Greatest Hits Vol. 4: The Best of 2024

Release Date: January 1, 2025
Host/Author: Ramsey Network
Description: A caller-driven show offering real talk on relationships and mental health challenges. Listeners are encouraged to send their questions via voicemail at 844-693-3291 or email [e-mail].

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Introduction: Reflecting on 2024

The episode kicks off with Dr. John DeLoney and his co-host Kelly reminiscing about the standout calls from 2024. John sets a positive tone for the New Year, emphasizing the opportunity for a fresh start and the universal desire to "control, alt, delete" past mistakes.

Notable Quote:

John DeLoney [01:21]: "New Year's is my favorite time of the year... it's like, everybody's like, control, alt, delete, let's try again."

Top Calls of 2024

Kelly introduces the theme by listing three prominent calls:

1. Discovering a Partner's Secret Marriage:

   • A caller, Lucy from Pittsburgh, shares her distress upon finding out her boyfriend is married, leading to a confrontation and ultimate breakup.

2. Suspected Affair with the Neighbor:

   • Joe calls in about his wife engaging in an emotional affair with his neighbor, despite repeated confrontations and evidence suggesting dishonesty.

3. Fantasy Affairs in Marital Sex Life:

   • Patrick discusses his struggle with sexual attraction towards his wife, necessitating fantasies about others to remain aroused, leading to tension in his relationship.

Notable Quotes:

Kelly [00:10]: "First one is, I didn't know my boyfriend was married. They are getting ready to move in together."
John DeLoney [00:15]: "Uh oh."

Listener Call: Lucy's Story

Lucy details her year-long relationship with a coworker she believed was separated, only to discover his ongoing marriage as they prepared to move in together. The confrontation results in Lucy deciding to move on, grappling with how to sever ties given their professional relationship.

Key Insights:

• Understanding Boundaries: John emphasizes the importance of recognizing toxic behaviors and the necessity of cutting off contact to heal.
• Self-Worth and Accountability: Lucy acknowledges her need to value herself more and let go of harmful attachments.

Notable Quotes:

John DeLoney [07:18]: "You have to cut it off. It's like stopping drinking."
Lucy [10:00]: "I definitely struggle in the self-worth front..."

Listener Call: Joe's Emotional Affair

Joe describes discovering his wife's emotional affair with a neighbor that lasted over a year. Despite attempts to reconcile through couples therapy and confronting her, Joe feels trapped due to their close living proximity and shared environments.

Key Insights:

• Power of Consistent Boundaries: John advises Joe to implement strict no-contact rules and seek professional help to navigate the emotional turmoil.
• Legal and Custodial Considerations: Discussion touches on the implications of filing for divorce and the impact on custody arrangements.

Notable Quotes:

Joe [23:17]: "I can't trust anybody. And this is where I'm stuck at right now."
John DeLoney [28:30]: "Joe, if you're done with this marriage. Be done with this marriage."

Listener Call: Patrick's Sexual Arousal Issues

Patrick shares his challenge of not feeling sexually attracted to his wife, resulting in the need to fantasize about others to maintain arousal during their intimate moments. This dynamic creates a disconnect and dissatisfaction in their marriage.

Key Insights:

• Communication and Mutual Participation: John stresses the importance of both partners actively engaging in revitalizing their intimate relationship.
• Rebuilding Connection: Emphasis on creating shared experiences and fostering deep emotional bonds to enhance physical intimacy.

Notable Quotes:

Patrick [42:05]: "I have to fantasize about other people and other situations in order to remain aroused and to perform for her."
John DeLoney [51:19]: "We're going not to leave? And one of those seems infinitely more fun than the other."

Practical Advice and Strategies

Throughout the calls, John provides actionable advice tailored to each situation:

• For Lucy: Severing professional ties and establishing clear boundaries to facilitate healing.
• For Joe: Considering legal avenues, enforcing no-contact orders, and seeking support from friends and professionals.
• For Patrick: Engaging in open, compassionate dialogues with his wife to co-create a fulfilling intimate relationship, and exploring activities that rebuild emotional connections.

Personal Reflections and Goals for 2025

As the episode progresses, Kelly shares her personal health journey, highlighting her commitment to consistent workouts and weight loss to better herself amidst caring for a special needs child.

Kelly's Notable Quote:

Kelly [68:03]: "Flipping the switch and changing my mindset on the 'I deserve this time' has been such a game changer for me."

John echoes a similar sentiment, reflecting on his own aspirations to embrace a more balanced and peaceful life, aiming to "flip a switch" toward positive habits and mental well-being.

John's Notable Quote:

John DeLoney [69:25]: "Today's your independence day, my friend Lucy. Today's your day of freedom."

Highlighted Advertisements (Skipped in Summary)

• TrainWell: Personalized workout app with expert trainers.
• Cozy Earth: Premium bedding solutions for better sleep.
• BetterHelp: Online therapy services for mental health support.
• DeleteMe: Privacy service to remove personal data from online brokers.

These sections are omitted from the summary as per instructions.

Closing Thoughts and Encouragement

In wrapping up, John encourages listeners to continue focusing on self-improvement and maintaining healthy relationships. He emphasizes the importance of self-worth, effective communication, and the willingness to make necessary changes to foster fulfilling connections.

Final Notable Quote:

John DeLoney [70:54]: "Write down who you want to be this year. And then keep listening to our show. Keep passing the show around. Hit the subscribe button."

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Conclusion

"Greatest Hits Vol. 4: The Best of 2024" serves as a comprehensive reflection on the most impactful listener calls of the year, offering deep insights into relationship challenges and mental health struggles. With practical advice and heartfelt discussions, Dr. John DeLoney provides valuable guidance to listeners navigating similar issues, setting a hopeful tone for the challenges and growth opportunities of 2025.

Transcript

[John DeLoney]

We're running the best of the best calls of 2024, Kelly, you know some of the ones off top of your head.

[Kelly]

First one is, I didn't know my boyfriend was married. They are getting ready to move in together.

[John DeLoney]

Uh oh.

[Kelly]

The last one was a man who fantasizes about other women while having sex with his wife.

[John DeLoney]

We start the new year off right. Woo. Happy new there. Happy New Year. I am not here. I'm recording this way in the past, so I'm assuming 2025 rolled around. We made it. We made it. New Year's is my favorite time of the year. My favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite time of the year. Because the whole world just says, you get a mulligan on that one. You could literally say anything. Like, man, last year I really did a lot of drugs and burned a lot of houses down. But, like, hashtag New Year, and everyone's like, yeah, you go, so I love New Year's. You just like, everybody's like, control, alt, delete, let's try again. And I love it, I love it, I love it. So if you're listening today, I'm glad that you're here starting your new year off right. And we're gonna run a best of. We're running the best of the best calls of 2024, Kelly, you know some of the ones off top of your hed.

[Kelly]

I do. Well, also, because I have them written right here.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, I was gonna say yeah, because. Because it's setting in. Kelly's starting to slow down. I'm glad you got them written down. What's up?

[Kelly]

Y. All right, so this one was. The first one is, I didn't know my boyfriend was married. They are getting ready to move in together.

[John DeLoney]

Whoa.

[Kelly]

And do you remember how she. How she found out?

[John DeLoney]

No.

[Kelly]

It's pretty good. Let's just say she and the wife came face to face.

[John DeLoney]

Oh. Ew.

[Kelly]

And then the next one was, is my wife having an affair with the neighbor? And I think we all agree the answer was a Definite Yes.

[John DeLoney]

Yes, 100%. I remember leaving being like, yes.

[Kelly]

I mean, yeah, we all know that, clearly. And then the last one was a man who fantasizes about other women while having sex with his wife. So there you go. Happy New Year.

[John DeLoney]

People start the new year off right. Man, I was. Sometimes I leave the show in one of two ways. I leave the show, like, I just exhale. And sometimes I'll text my wife and just be like, just so you know, we're doing great. We're doing great. And then other times, People call in and they're like, hey, I'm wondering if my, like, wife's having an affair. And they roll through, like, what's going on? And it's like, a thousand percent, yes. How do you not see that? But then it makes me wonder, like, what are the things in my life that I'm just super unaware of? I'm sure youall have lists. Are you wanting me to, like, to.

[Kelly]

Go through the list?

[John DeLoney]

Right. Everybody, check it out. The best show, like, the three top shows of 2024. Happy New Year. If nothing else, that will remind you, you're probably doing pretty good. Check it out. All right, let's go out to Lucy in the sky with diamonds in Pittsburgh. Hey, what's up, Lucy?

[Lucy]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today. I appreciate it. How are you?

[John DeLoney]

I'm great. Thank you for taking time to call in. What's up?

[Lucy]

So I started a relationship with someone. I do happen to work with them, and it was over the course of a year, and things progressed. Even got to the point where we wanted to move in together and signed a lease. And I knew this person was married, but it was explained to me that they were separated. I didn't understand that it was capital M married.

[John DeLoney]

Lucy, you have to lead with that. Yes, lead with that. You did such a good job bearing the lead.

[Lucy]

So I did know that. But I was under the understanding that they were separated and beginning the process of divorce, which, you know, hindsight's 20 20. I realized that divorce should come first before anything else.

[John DeLoney]

No way. No way.

[Lucy]

So, I mean, yeah, I didn't understand the situation at the time and was just kind of rolling with it and.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, but you understand it now, though, right?

[Lucy]

Yes, of course.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. So this guy sucks, and he's. He's untrustworthy and he's cheated on one. He'll cheat on you. And so we're moving on, right?

[Lucy]

Yeah, I guess that's. That's the. The question is, is how to move on. So, you know, he still talks to me. He still says that he has the same feelings and wants the same thing.

[John DeLoney]

Why does he have any contact with you?

[Lucy]

We work together, so we're around each other.

[John DeLoney]

I've been in some pretty cold work relationships. I work with Kelly. I've been in some pretty cold, like, work relationships.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You still want. You still want it to happen, your life?

[Lucy]

Do I let go of. I'm not going to lie.

[John DeLoney]

No, it's super hard. But you still want it to happen?

[Lucy]

In my perfect dream World. Yes, I understand that perfect dream world don't exist. I love a good story, I guess. Yeah. And it's hard when someone's still saying all these things to you not to hold space in your life for them. And I'm afraid that I'll pass up on good things because in the back.

[John DeLoney]

Of my head there's no good way. There's no good here.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Can I tell you an alternative hypothesis?

[Lucy]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

I think you are upset slash confused as to who you've become and it's easy to connect to. I have a close buddy who had an affair was such a left turn for him in a million years would never be that guy. And instantly wrapped up in that relationship to try to make that work because that was the only path to redemption in his. In his mind. I have a friend who's a woman who just completely poured her soul out to some like it happens all the time where I can't believe I've become this like in your. You never set out to be somebody who would be the other woman who would date a married man, fall in love with him, sign a lease with him. And then there's this picture in your mind when you look in the mirror of oh, you're a kind of woman who does that.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so now you have a vested interest in somehow making this thing work with this guy to almost to. To wrap your. To build a wall around the collateral damage here. I'm going tell you I. The lack of character of this man is so powerful because it's not like he had a workplace crush. It's not like he got it in over his head. It's not like he had a one time affair. He. He took someone along his fantasy ride. He used you so badly and by the way you used him after you found out because he becomes a way to get fully emotionally invested without ever crossing a line. Right. Because you know he's anchored at home. The whole thing's. There is zero good that can come from this.

[Lucy]

That's a very fair, fair assessment. Yeah. I, I don't know how to break that connection in my brain. I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

You have to cut it off. It's like. It's like stopping drinking. You can't just keep going to the same bar.

[Lucy]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

You can't have alcohol in your house. I've got friends who've been in recovery for 20 years and they can be around it all day long. That doesn't bother them at all. But that first, that first couple years, it's. It's Scorched earth. I can't be around the same people. I can't go to the same places. And at some level you have to get some. Some. Some. Whether you have to manufacture it or you have to just let it go. I can't believe you're not enraged. What a lying sack of crap.

[Lucy]

That is what I. That is what I hear a lot is people are like, I can't believe you don't hate him. And I don't.

[John DeLoney]

No, it's not hate. It's rage. Like, hate's kind of a waste of time. I'm talking about like. Like a guy that would sign a lease with you.

[Lucy]

Yeah. Take it that far.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Lucy]

Yeah. That's just disgusting to me. And I didn't find everything out until after the fact because.

[John DeLoney]

Can I tell you something? You still don't know everything because I promise you, he tells his wife something different than he's telling you.

[Lucy]

Oh, I would bet my life on it.

[John DeLoney]

Promise. I don't talk to that woman at work. She's kind of crazy. She follows me around everywhere. She always is texting. All I want to do is be with you. We've built this life together. This. I work with a crazy person, but I can't get a new job right now. You're the other story. But you can't control that other story. You can't control what a spineless, lying coward he is. You can't control what kind of spineless, lying coward you are. Stop. Stop.

[Lucy]

I think. I think the picture I was painted in the story I was originally sold, like, it's hard to attach those words to that person, but I have to, like, that's right. Realize that that person doesn't exist.

[John DeLoney]

Ah, there you go. You created somebody in the world and you backfilled it with that dude.

[Lucy]

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[John DeLoney]

But you also haven't done the hard work to backfill reality with you. You're a woman who's continuing to be attached to a married man.

[Lucy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And I think you're worth more than that. I think you're better than that. Does that make sense?

[Lucy]

Yeah. Thank you for saying that.

[John DeLoney]

Do you?

[Lucy]

I. I definitely struggle in the self worth front, which is why I think I accept the treatment that I do and accept the situations that I'm admittedly and take full responsibility. Got myself into.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. But I can hear you. I can hear you gulping it down. I want you to. To stop. I want you to feel it. Because you're really good at passing over how much all this Hurts. Is that fair? It's sitting right there at the top, isn't it?

[Lucy]

Yeah, it hurts. Hurts a lot.

[John DeLoney]

It hurts that you were lied to and it hurts that you found yourself having acted like this person.

[Lucy]

Yeah, 100%. And I don't like easily feel that way about people or you know, commitment is definitely something I struggle with. So I just, I worked on that for the wrong person, the wrong situation, the wrong everything.

[John DeLoney]

Well, here's another all, here's an a second alternative hypothesis. He was the safest person for somebody to get involved with who is commitment phobic. Because you can go all in and imagine this life and way deep down you know it's not going to come true because he's got a wife.

[Lucy]

Self sabotage at its finest.

[John DeLoney]

Well, and you've probably have a history of dating people who have built in like have shown their true colors already as you're getting to know them or as you become involved with them and they leave you and this guy will find somebody to cheat on you with and leave you and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and you'll say, see, I told you Lucy.

[Lucy]

Fair. Very fair, very accurate.

[John DeLoney]

So you have to, you have to decide you're worth somebody being somebody's only one. Which means you have to risk getting hurt. And by the way, like just from a data perspective, you've proven it to yourself like that your way gets you hurt too.

[Lucy]

Yeah, so does it does.

[John DeLoney]

You can't fix anything that has happened up into this point. You can do the next right thing.

[Lucy]

And just completely cut contact. And it's, that's definitely going to be a challenge because before anything turned into anything, this person, it started out as friendship, which I'm sure you've heard a million, million times over. And it, I didn't, I didn't mean for it, it sounds stupid. I didn't mean for it to get this far, but of course not.

[John DeLoney]

Nobody does, man. That's, that's why I, that's why I'm not screaming at you. And if the roles were reversed and he was on the phone, I'd be mad at him because he's married. But nobody, nobody plans for it to get like this. I get that. But somebody has to call it at some point and not continue the fantasy train right off a cliff. And by the way, you can't, I don't think you can make this switch long term. That doesn't come from a place that you believe in your bones that you're worth more than this.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Because if you don't you're gonna break up with them because you're pissed or you're angry or, like some indignant, like. Yeah. And that kind of, like, when there's, like, a great painter or musician and you walk up to him, you're like, I need you to know you changed my life. That's amazing. Yeah, but that doesn't pay the light bill. Right. Like, it'd be cool if you bought a record or a ticket. Similarly, you can break up with somebody because you're enraged. That doesn't make the 2am loneliness go away.

[Lucy]

Right? Right.

[John DeLoney]

And you have to decide, I'm worth it. It doesn't. That doesn't make the loneliness go away, per se, but it does. It backfilled with a sense of virtue and character and worth. You're just worth more than this, man.

[Lucy]

Thank you for saying that, because I don't always feel like it.

[John DeLoney]

I know you don't. I know you don't.

[Lucy]

I go. I go to therapy. I work on it, but.

[John DeLoney]

I know.

[Lucy]

But you don't like trying to.

[John DeLoney]

What does your therapist say? What does your therapist said about all this?

[Lucy]

That I don't know. It was a cruel thing to do to someone. I didn't find out about everything until after a lease was signed. We were making lease payments. It was like when he was supposed to move in that things got weird. And that's when I was like, something's not right. So I went to his house, and that's how I kind of found everything out.

[John DeLoney]

Did his wife answer the door?

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, for real? I was kind of joking.

[Lucy]

Like, she was like, who are you? And I was like, I. I think we need to talk about some things because I don't think I understand what's going on, and I don't think you know what's going on.

[John DeLoney]

God. Lucy, lead with that next time. That's awesome. That's great radio. All right, so did y'all get in a fistfight out in the parking lot? What happened?

[Lucy]

No, she was so oddly calm about it.

[John DeLoney]

Because you're not the first one.

[Lucy]

All right, so I wasn't. And he told me that, you know, obviously, like I said, I thought they were separated. And he was like, I. I've never stepped out on my marriage. Like, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, obviously, by my reaction, you can tell that this has happened before. It's never gone this far, but it's happened before. And that's not even the end of the saga. So that all happened. And he's like, well, everything's out in the open now, so I can actually leave. He ends up bringing a bag to the house that we signed for, and then tells me it's over, they're getting divorced, whatever. And then he leaves, and I have to go back and be like, she sent people to my house to look for him. And I was like, but what the hell is going on? Like, I. I can't believe anything that's being said. And so her and I confronted him together.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, and, God, I wish you would have had that on record. That would have been awesome.

[Lucy]

I. I did record it. I don't think anyone knows that, but my phone was on in my pocket just for my own.

[John DeLoney]

Did his other girlfriends come, too, or is it just y'all too awesome?

[Lucy]

Just us. I don't. I don't know the other two exactly.

[John DeLoney]

That y'all know of, but here's the deal. Here's the deal. Here's the deal.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Right now, I want you to take out your phone. I want you to delete his contact.

[Lucy]

Okay?

[John DeLoney]

Do it, like, right now.

[Lucy]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Put me on speaker and do it.

[Lucy]

All right, it's gone.

[John DeLoney]

It's gone, it's gone. The moment this call is up, over, I want you to send him an email on your work email, okay? That says I'm cutting off contact with you. I don't want to talk to you electronically. I don't want you to call me. I don't want you to text me. I don't want you to email me anymore. If you do, I will consider it harassment and a violation of our professional working relationship. Send.

[Lucy]

I like that you're so okay. I wish I had you on tap all the time.

[John DeLoney]

You don't trust me. I'm a mess. But right now, I'm doing all right. But hold on. You're then going to have to. You're going to be empty.

[Lucy]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And you're going to have to backfill that with friendships. You're going to have to backfill that with other people that you call, and you're going to have to deal with the hollowness that you feel because you became somebody that you don't respect.

[Lucy]

No, I don't at all.

[John DeLoney]

I'm telling you from the outside you're worthy of that respect. But you got to. You. You got to act different. You got to be someone who doesn't date married men.

[Lucy]

Yeah. My first and last, I swear.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, we're done.

[Lucy]

We're done. We learned a lot, unfortunately, the hard way, but that's how I seem to do things.

[John DeLoney]

We did. And by the way, going back to the friendship stuff, you lost him as like a friend. Just for whatever it's worth, like my non. I was about to say my non sexual friends. That's. That's all but one my, my friends who are not like there's no romantic interest or whatever. I don't hang out with people. I hang out with guys that are questionable on a lot of fronts. I love them, but they're man, they make different choices than me. But I don't hang out with dudes who cheat on their wives. I just don't like. I just don't. I hang out with people who make mistakes and I hang out people who say they're sorry and I hang out with people who any number of different values than me, different beliefs than me. But forget the romantic part. Don't be around this dude because he's a kind of scumbag that cheats on his wife. He's the kind of scumbag that continually over and over destroys the humans in his life. I just not gonna be around that kind of person. I'll walk with them. If they say they want to get better, they want to change their life. But that's just as a, as a rule of life, man, there's. Life is too short. There's too many amazing people out there trying to do the next right thing. Today's your independence day, my friend Lucy. Today's your day of freedom. And today's the day you got to deal with a lot of hard stuff, including the things that you've done and you've been in the person that you were becoming. We're going to become something different starting today. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non Anxious Life. It's going to be my gift to you. But if you call him or you respond to a text message or if he emails you and you don't send it on to hr, you have to send the book back. You won't. But that's my rule. Thanks for the call, Lucy. We're rooting for you. Since the first day I started this show, I've been preaching about the importance of regular exercise and our overall physical health. I am thrilled to announce I have partnered with TrainWell, an amazing app and personal trainer all in one. TrainWell offers tailored workouts with step by step guidance from real people. So while it is on your phone or your computer, it's. It's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer. It's the best of both me, my wife, my colleagues and their wives. We've all been using trainwell for some time now, and the feedback, the interaction with a real personal trainer, the accountability and the personalized nature of the workouts have been outstanding. To get started, you just need to answer a few questions about your fitness journey. Hop on a chat with an expert trainer to discuss your goals and make a personalized plan. And then it's time to get to work. As you complete workouts, your trainer will keep tweaking them to help you make them better. And it works. Over 90% of TrainWell clients say they exercise more consistently. Up to 90% report increased strength and 73% say they got a confidence boost. If you're ready to start taking control of your physical health, take the quiz to find your perfect [e-mail] DeLoney today. This January only, you'll get 45% off the monthly price plus 14 days of free [e-mail] DeLoney that's Trainwell T R A I N W E L L.net DeLoney okay, I want to tell you about Cozy Earth. Over the last few weeks, my sleep has been off. I've been spending time more on screens than I like and I'm traveling. I'm just feeling all over the place. Here's the deal. Starting the year off right starts with good sleep. And that means creating a space that helps you rest. And for me and my family, that's where Cozy Earth comes in. Their bedding is soft, breathable, and it keeps my whole family cool and comfortable all night. It's perfect for creating that sleep sanctuary that we all need. My wife sleeps in Cozy Earth's long sleeved bamboo pajama set every night. And we both love the Cozy Earth bath linens with the best towels in the world. And I love their cityscape hoodies. So let's do a restart. Let's put down our phone, let's get a regular bedtime, let's get comfortable when possible, and let's invest in our sleep. All of this with Cozy Earth. Because we all want to sleep and rest well. We show up better for ourselves and our families. And right now Cozy Earth is offering a 40% off discount code exclusively for the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Listeners, visit cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney that's cozyearth.com DeLONEY Hey Joe, what's up?

[Joe]

Yes, sir. How are you? Thank you for taking my call.

[John DeLoney]

You got it. What's up brother?

[Joe]

Nothing much. So pretty much I found my wife in an emotional affair with my neighbor for over a year now. I found out a couple weeks ago. I looked through the call logs on the phone. I knew something was going on between the two of them. I confronted him three times and I confronted her. I'm being honest with you. It was probably two to three times a day. We would consecutively argue about it. He would buy my son clothing for school and just stuff for his room. And he would cook my wife dinner a lot. And in front of me, they had nicknames and everybody denied it. And I'm having a hard time believing her in anything. She says her mother passed away about two years ago and she was swearing on her deceased mother and our son that nothing was going on. And then when I confronted her, it was my. It was. The blame was on my end and things weren't good. And it's been going on for about a year. We were in couples therapy starting this January. I was unaware of everything, but I knew something was awful in the marriage and I was trying to make it better. And I can't even get away because he is at my home. He's next to me at home, and he is there when I go to the gym, at the same gym. So I can't even have an escape that way. And I'm not sure where to begin. I'm not even sure where my head is at. I can't trust anybody. And this is where I'm stuck at right now.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Dude, that's a terrifying place to be, man. I'm sorry.

[Joe]

That's okay.

[John DeLoney]

Hey, it's not okay, man. It's not. You know, you don't got to make me feel better. I'll just sit here with you.

[Joe]

Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[John DeLoney]

Do you have little ones?

[Joe]

I do. I have one three year old son.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Joe]

Yeah. I'm not even. I. I don't want to come home. Yeah. I literally can't get away. And she said that she broke it off with him. And our houses are so close. If I, you know, put a hammer through the wall, you can probably see his living room. That's how, you know, we're right next door.

[Patrick]

But.

[Joe]

And, you know, she said that she broke it off. And then about two weeks ago, I asked her. We were just talking and I asked her what she had for dinner, and she said that she didn't eat. And this is something little, but it's just the fact that it happened. And she said that she didn't have dinner because she wasn't hungry. Because of everything going on. And then I got home, I work late, and I got home that morning and there was food. And that was not ours. And how I know is because it was on a paper plate that was not ours in the garbage. And she wasn't honest with me again. And he keeps talking to her and saying hi. And yeah, they both said that it was nothing sexual, but I don't believe the two of them because like I said, I confronted him three times about it and my wife twice a day, two, three times a day for the last year. So.

[John DeLoney]

Man, there's not a good. There's not like a. It's not written in a textbook somewhere what the next move is.

[Joe]

Yeah. Okay, I understand.

[John DeLoney]

So I'm gonna give you, with all of my. The time I've spent sitting with people who have had emotional affairs and full blown sexual affairs, and I'm like, my personal experience, all of it. Okay. I would probably leave for 30 days.

[Joe]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Because here's the thing. Your wife is just lying to you and lying to you, and you're going crazy. And it's hard to stay clear because every time you go to your. To the safest. What should be the safest place in the world, which is your home, you're in fight or flight the entire time.

[Joe]

Correct? Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Every time you go to work, you're in Firefly. And the other option would be, I'm gonna go stay in an apartment for 30 days and we're gonna put the house on the market and I'm gonna sell this house because that's the only way you're gonna save your marriage.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And if she says, I think that's a great idea, let's do that. Cool. And if she says, absolutely not, this is where we live, yada yada, then she gets to make a choice. Do you want this? Do you want to fight me for this home? Or we're going to sell this home. One way or the other. We're going to sell it through when the judge forces the sale of the home and we split the assets up, the equity up, or we can sell it now and try to save our marriage.

[Joe]

I. I don't mean to throw another curveball at you.

[John DeLoney]

Throw them all, man. Throw them all.

[Joe]

So this past February of this year, we jointly filed bankruptcy, so we could sell it. But as far as buying, I'm. I'm pretty sure we can buy.

[John DeLoney]

You're past all that.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Joe, your wife is sleeping with your neighbor, Period. End of story. You know that, I know that. They both know that.

[Joe]

Yeah. And they would FaceTime, too. I forgot to mention that.

[John DeLoney]

Joe, if you're done with this marriage. Be done with this marriage. An important family death, bankruptcy. Those are two of this. Of the most powerful stressors on a marriage.

[Joe]

Yes, sir.

[John DeLoney]

An affair. I mean, you got like, you're. It's the. The trifecta.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

But now you're at a place where you keep coming back to drink more poison and more poison and more poison. And I don't even. I haven't heard you once say, I am desperately in love with this woman, and I want to try to save this marriage. I. I hear you pissed.

[Joe]

Yeah, I'm. I'm. I thought I was past the anger stage and.

[John DeLoney]

No, dude, your wife's cheating on you, right? And your neighbor waves at you.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I'm afraid you're gonna end up in jail. You know why? Because I would.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You know, I don't have the strength to go through what you're. What you're doing every day.

[Joe]

I thought I made the right. Honestly, I. I thought I made the right call for staying for my son and. And try to work it out, but I'm just. I'm angry. I can't even. Like, she. You know, she's trying in that aspect, but when I first found out, it was like the end of June, and I just said a divorce, probably. I'm gonna say, like two. Two weeks ago. Then that's when she started to change. And I'm like, well, you know, why did it take me to say a divorce? And, you know, I don't want to come home. I don't want to be around anybody. I'm. I'm angry. I'm upset. I can. I can't believe anybody. I don't believe a word that she's saying. You know what I mean? Even though she's. She. She could be telling the truth.

[Patrick]

Very well.

[John DeLoney]

Here's the deal. Here's what you have to. Here's you have to do.

[Joe]

Yes, sir.

[John DeLoney]

What does the path to trust look like for you? Because let's say we can't sell the house. We are stuck here in this house. It's against the law for us to sell, which is not true. But let's just make up something. Okay?

[Joe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

What does trust look like? Trust looks like a no contact order. Trust looks like you saying, you are forbidden from coming on my property. And if you come on my property, you call my house again, you're on notice. Now, I'm gonna file a harassment complaint.

[Joe]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And your wife cuts off everything. She throws her phone in the sink and lets it and loses all contacts and starts completely over. Yeah, but here's the deal, bro. She did all this stuff and she and he made her dinner and they had dinner together last night. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

Yeah, I understand.

[John DeLoney]

You heard me say this a thousand times. Behavior is a language. She's being very clear with you.

[Joe]

No, I understand.

[John DeLoney]

And right now she's got a gravy train which is you going off to work and then coming home. Does she work too?

[Joe]

Yeah, she works during the day and then I work second shift from three to midnight.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so y'all effectively never see each other and she has eight hours a day when she gets to spend with a man next door.

[Joe]

That is correct. Yeah, yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah. Like one of the minute I leave for work, I leave the house around two and then that's when the calls would happen.

[John DeLoney]

Like. Yeah, of course they would.

[Joe]

I guess I'm just still processing this and I don't even know.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, but, but here's the deal. I'm afraid you're about to do something stupid. Will you promise me that you're not going to go to jail?

[Joe]

Of course. Yeah. I have a. I have a three year old son and I can't.

[John DeLoney]

Excellent. Excellent.

[Joe]

Yeah, I don't want to.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Joe]

I don't want to make it worse for anybody.

[John DeLoney]

And for whatever it's worth, during a divorce proceeding, every one of her text messages will be subpoenaed, every one of her emails will be subpoenaed, even the deleted ones. Everything is on the table. Okay. Yours too.

[Joe]

Yes, sir.

[John DeLoney]

And so there's a chance you end up with full custody here because she doesn't want to be married to you.

[Joe]

I mean, you know, she's. I mean she's a great mom and I, you know, I couldn't ask for a better mother that way.

[John DeLoney]

I know she, yeah, a great mom doesn't bring another man to the house every night.

[Joe]

Yes, sir. And our son, like just to bring one more incident up, like, you know, we were painting our son's room and we were in the middle of it and him and I started it and nothing was done. And she got the next. The following day she got out of work at 2, I left and I called her around my 6:30 break time and she said that the room was finished and done and I didn't believe her because I know how much that takes, especially with a 3 year old by herself. And then, you know, I get home that next day because I Get home at night, and I look at the room, and it's beautiful. Everything was cut into all the corners. And I look on the tarp, and there was paintbrushes and rollers that I don't have. And our son consecutively says that. I don't want to say names, but her. But the neighbor, Mommy, and him were all painting the room. And she obviously denies it, but. This is Joe. Yeah, I'm just.

[John DeLoney]

You can hear it as you're saying it out loud, can't you?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Listen, if. If we were in person, if I was sitting in Connecticut right now with you in New Haven. I was just there a few weeks ago. If I was there with you right now, I would stop the conversation. I'd give you a hook because I know the path is. That's in front of you is gnarly.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I'm sorry.

[Joe]

Sorry.

[John DeLoney]

I know miracles happen, but this sounds like your marriage is over, and it sounds like now we're just waiting for somebody to be the adult and have the courage to do the next thing.

[Joe]

Yeah. I guess that's what I was afraid of. I know.

[John DeLoney]

I'm sorry. I hate it for you, too.

[Joe]

Sorry. It's just, you know, love's a funny thing. It's like no matter how bad somebody hurts, you just. You just don't stop.

[John DeLoney]

No, of course not.

[Joe]

Of course. I guess that's what I'm holding on to.

[John DeLoney]

And, dude, if she was ready to fight and go to war for this marriage, dude, I'd be a thousand percent. Y'all could save this marriage.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

No question about it. I have no question about it. But everything starts with, I'm gonna tell you the truth, and she can't do that, and she won't do that. And now we're at a place where she is teaching our son that we lie.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

She's teaching her son that multiple men stay in this home. And by the way, dude, Joe, just. Just so you can see this from an outsider's perspective, because I'm just a random dude in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Joe]

Yes, sir.

[John DeLoney]

She's trying to send you a message. She's leaving trash in the trash. She's leaving rollers in the house.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

She's not even trying. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

[John DeLoney]

Like, there's a lot of what I would call infidelity gymnastics that people go through. Lots.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

She's almost rubbing your nose in it. Or less, like, less aggressively, like, letting you know this is happening. Ta da. Right?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And maybe you tell her, I want you out of this house by the. In the next week. She's got to move out. Yeah, y'all figure that stuff out. But y'all. But I mean, you. You can't continue to allow another man to come spend eight hours a day in your home with your wife and your child.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And that can be that you leave and then serve the papers or sit with an attorney or y'all go to mediation. Rivers. It happens in Connecticut. Every state's different. Or she packs up and goes. Although I think your fear is she's just going to go 20 yards next door.

[Joe]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's, you know, it's what's going to happen. And she told him that, you know, she wants nothing to do with him. But, you know, yesterday he was. They were outside, and she took my son and her. Herself and my son and the dog for a walk. And when she went down the street, you know, he was staring at her. And when he got back, you know, he said, hey, how are you guys? And she's like, you know, good. How are you? And that's something little, but it's the. The fact that we're going through all this, and it's like, I. You know, my expectation is no. No context. And I shouldn't even have to say that. If you're willing to work with somebody, then her defense was, we're neighbors. You know, what am I going to say? We're going to say, hi, and I'm like, okay, but our marriage is on the line.

[John DeLoney]

Not a neighbor that you're having an affair with.

[Joe]

Yeah, right.

[John DeLoney]

Has she shown you the messages that she sent him that said, we are never going to be in contact ever again? Stop contacting me, effective immediately?

[Joe]

No, sir. Apparently, this is all verbal on our back deck.

[John DeLoney]

Exactly. I want it in writing.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I want it in writing so that when you file a harassment complaint that this man won't leave your wife alone.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

He keeps coming over to the property line and staring at her. He keeps yelling at her, trying to say hello to her when she's trying to walk your child and the dog. On all in writing. I used to tell my college students, you have to put in writing through text message or email, do not contact me anymore, Period. And once that line is crossed, then it's harassment. Now we can get involved.

[Joe]

Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. All right.

[John DeLoney]

But I don't think she's going to do it, Joe.

[Joe]

I'm going to have to agree with you. There.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so let's start. Let's. Let's get a group of people in your corner, whether that's a couple of close friends, whether that's a minister from your local church, whether that is an attorney that you're going to sit with, a mental health professional, everybody. Maybe the path right now is to go sit with an attorney because you've got a lot to untangle, whether with. With the bankruptcy, with child, with home equity. I don't know how any of that stuff works in Connecticut. So having somebody, a professional, just to know what you're looking at here. And the whole time, I want you to spend some time with yourself in a local coffee shop or on your breaks at work, or in the morning when your son is taking a nap, figuring out what is a path back to trust so that you can lay it down in front of her and say, this is what this looks like. We sell the house and we rent. Because I. I'd rather be married to you and rebuild this marriage than own a house. Or you have to sever all contact forever. And partridge in the pear tree on and on and on and on and on. And I'm going to put cameras up in the house. And if this man steps on my property, I'm going to have him a no trespass. I don't want his plates in our home, and I don't want his paint rollers in our home. And I don't want his love and affection for you and our kid in our home. It's our home, not his. But, Joe, you got to stop. I mean, I know you hear it, and it's hard to even wrap your head around. Oh, this is it. Like, my wife is choosing him. She's choosing dishonesty. She's choosing lying. And I'm so sorry. Call back anytime, brother. You got a long, hard road ahead of you. And listen to me. Just because it's painful doesn't mean it's not right. Whichever path you take, this show is sponsored by Better Help. This time of year, it's cold, it's dark, and most of us just want to stay inside and try to get cozy on the rare nights when everyone is home. At my house, I love to spend cozy nights in with my immediate family. We all get under some blankets, sit around the fire, and we either read some books out loud or we watch a movie together. We laugh, annoy each other, and we all settle in. But often during the holidays, my family is scattered all around. They're traveling, we're working, or otherwise separated from each other, and I find myself alone, bummed out and sometimes wishing I was somewhere else. Millions of you know this feeling of being bummed out, lonely, especially around the holidays. You're battling loneliness and grief and you wish that your life was different. If this sounds like you, I encourage you to reach out to a therapist today. Therapy can be a safe place to settle in and work through those emotions, replenish your energy and take care of yourself. I recommend BetterHelp to help you find comfort during the chaos and stress and loneliness that can be attached to the holidays. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just get online and fill out a short survey to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find comfort in this season with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E L p.com DeLoney Hey, Patrick, what's up?

[Patrick]

Hey, John. I've got a question for you.

[John DeLoney]

Bring it on, dude.

[Patrick]

So I've been married for about 14, almost 15 years now, and my wife and I have a great relationship, great marriage. We've got four kids. She's my soulmate. You know, we communicate well. Everything is going great. We love each other. I've actually fallen in love with her more this year, and we're more intimate now than we ever have been in life.

[John DeLoney]

Bro, you're setting this one up, man. I am.

[Patrick]

I am setting it up.

[John DeLoney]

You're like, you're like making the shoe really high before you drop it it.

[Patrick]

Yes, I am. So here's the problem, all right?

[John DeLoney]

What's the other shoe? Drop it.

[Patrick]

I am not sexually attracted to my wife, okay? And we have sex about two or three times a week, but I have to fantasize about other people and other situations in order to remain aroused and to perform for her. And I don't like it. I don't want to do this. I wish I could be aroused by her and have a more intimate and fulfilling sex life with her, but it's just not happening.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Patrick]

What can I do about that?

[John DeLoney]

So I feel like the preamble, all the stuff you told me up until this isn't true because she doesn't know this. And you told me you're more intimate you've ever been. You're more in love, you're more communicative, you'll talk about everything, but she doesn't know you're not Attracted to her?

[Patrick]

Well, she does now. She just found out a couple days ago.

[John DeLoney]

How'd she find out? Were you, like. Are you posting it online? How'd she find out?

[Patrick]

I. I broke down and confessed her. I told her, look, I'm. I have a hard time performing for you, and I have to fantasize in order to do it.

[John DeLoney]

Why? Why do you consider sex a performance?

[Patrick]

So that's what she asked. I don't know. I feel like I have to. I have to be the one that initiates. I have to be the one that pulls the whole thing off, or else it is just not going to happen.

[John DeLoney]

And that leads me to this sense of bro. Like, I don't know what kind of like. And I'm. I would hug you if you were sitting here. Okay? So I want you to hear me say that.

[Patrick]

Okay?

[John DeLoney]

You are facing a challenge that bajillions of people, men and women, face in their relationships. But often it's men. And it has little to nothing to do with sexual attraction. Has to do with feeling alive in your own home. And you don't. And so everything has to be a theater performance. And it has to. I've got to get my heart rate racing again, and I have to concoct this adventure. And right now, I'm trusting you that it's staying in your head, but it will be out of your head shortly. You'll be in somebody else's bed because it's that quiet life of desperation. And so as good as you think things are, man, I feel like you're almost having to tell yourself that because you're drowning. You're not even drowning. You're just suffocating in your own home. Is that fair? Am I. Am I crazy?

[Patrick]

You might have a point in some regards. I've been working on a lot of that stuff about, you know, bringing my heart back to life and finding out what it is that makes me feel alive.

[John DeLoney]

What is it? What is it?

[Patrick]

Honestly, I'm not really sure. I like just hanging out around my friends. I like going on small adventures. But, you know, I'm not super extroverted either, so a lot of the stuff that people want to do just kind of intimidates me, I guess.

[John DeLoney]

That's where. That's where. That's where it is. That's where the adventure is. So you've. You've created this story where I'm kind of introverted. So that's off the table. I'm kind of this. So that's off the table, and yet your body is Starving for it. Like, forget, forget your friends for a second, you and your wife. Like, what does play look like? What does Eros and desire look like? How does she seduce you?

[Patrick]

She doesn't.

[John DeLoney]

Okay? That's the issue to be addressed.

[Patrick]

How can I address that?

[John DeLoney]

Openly and directly and with compassion. Because if, if, if this whole thing is one sided, then the whole thing is an event and she is just merely a, an actor on a stage. She's not with you and you just write the script and hand it to her. In fact, you don't even hand her the script anymore. She just stays. She's just there. She's not participating in this thing.

[Patrick]

Well, we have talked about some of that where I've told her, you know, I want, I wish she could engage more and initiate more and participate more. And she doesn't really know what to say or know what to do. And I've tried to direct her and then she, like, she'll say okay, but then she doesn't do anything.

[John DeLoney]

And that's that it has to be addressed because in many ways you've said, I don't, I, I need this from you. I need to feel loved. And right now, in this season, here's what feeling loved looks like. And she nods at you and then goes, I don't really care about that. And often there's another side to that. Has she told you here's what makes me feel loved and alive?

[Patrick]

Yes, she has.

[John DeLoney]

And what does she say?

[Patrick]

She just wants to know that, you know, that I'm thinking about her all day. Like when I'm at work. She likes having text messages from me just telling her that I love her. She likes it when I do kind, gentlemanly things where like hold the door open for her and cook for her and things like that. And I do that stuff, but it's just not.

[John DeLoney]

That's all performative.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

What's beneath that?

[Patrick]

She wants to feel special. She wants to feel like she is my one and only.

[John DeLoney]

But she's not. Because you have a whole cadre of actors that you rely on to fulfill these stories every night or two or three times a week. And you see how it just turns into this weird figure 8. It's this infinity loop that nobody can catch the other person. It's a strange dance where you are literally suffocating in your own home. And the way you get little gulps of oxygen is to create fantasies and stories so that you can get this physical release. And she is not a participant, she's just being used for that release. And she can feel it in her nervous system. And so then she begs for, would you tell me that I'm the only one with that I'm special? And you outsource that to text messages and to doing the dishes and opening the door and putting your hand on the small of her back. All those are important things. But both of y'all are just trying to breathe through a straw. And unless you both sit down and say, all right, how long have y'all been married?

[Patrick]

Almost 15 years.

[John DeLoney]

15 years. Here's the top 10 fantasies of mine. You ready? Right. We're gonna go down a rabbit hole. And y'all both agreeing curiosity, not judgment. All right, tell me about that one. Why is that exciting? And being able to sit in that tension in that space. And I know people are listening to this right now, being like, I could never tell the person I'm married to that I had this thought one time of. And I would tell you that's the problem, because I know secrets kill relationships. And people can feel when they're. When they're not connected. And the problem with a lack of connection with two married people who are sleeping together is it. It. It accentuates how far apart you are, even though you're in the middle of one of the most intimate physical acts possible because you both know you're not there.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Does that make sense?

[Patrick]

Yeah, it does.

[John DeLoney]

Have you. I've joked about this before. It ended up not being a joke. Like, it ended up with a life of its own, and it ended up being hilarious. Have you tried the John Deloney erotic envelope system? Have you heard me talk about that?

[Patrick]

I've. Yes. Actually, my wife and I just did that a few months ago.

[John DeLoney]

How was it?

[Patrick]

I don't remember if it was the exact same thing, but it's very similar. It was where we put 10 things we wanted to try.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Like, it was five things per person, I think. And we put on each on a different piece of paper and into a jar, and we pulled one out each night and talked about it.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Patrick]

And that was good. But she wrote down nothing having to do with sex whatsoever. And mine were, like, three out of.

[John DeLoney]

Five were sex related, but that's super instructive. What were her things?

[Patrick]

Like, she wanted to study language together, and let's do a hobby together. And I don't remember what else, but we have them written down upstairs.

[John DeLoney]

And were you curious about those?

[Patrick]

Yeah. I feel like we could have had more conversation about the items that we pulled out, but I want to pick them back up. I certainly want to review them with her because that.

[John DeLoney]

That's going to tell her. Or that's. That's. That's. That's her clumsy way of telling you what she's missing. And you're. You're three or four or five or six or ten fantasies or sex acts, the things you want to participate, y'all want to do together, that sense of aliveness and adventure and desire and thinking about it all day and her being a full participant, not for you, but with you, that's what you're missing. And there feels like there's not a bridge to get there. So you go through the motions, you do the acts, but you're in your head somewhere far away with. With different people.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And learning a language is a way. It's. It's a. It's a. I'm trying to say it in a not cheesy way. It's. It's a. It's a. It's a knowing. Right. It's a coming together in a deeply intimate way. We have done a thing. We've been through a hard thing, and now we have a way of communicating that no other people in our life do. Like, the depth of intimacy in there. And that request is so deep. But since it doesn't involve, like, I don't know, a new outfit and some weird music and some like. Like, whatever. Like whatever you got in your head, it. It. It's easy to bypass the sensuality to it. So here's what curiosity looks like. I'll just walk you through it. So I want to learn a language with you. That's when you pull out of the envelope and you're kind of bummed out because you were hoping it would be like, some wild, like. All right, here's what we're gonna do. And you. She pulls out one, and it's some weird, like, exotic sex act you've. You've conjured up or you saw in some movie back when you were 19 years old. Whatever. And here we are. And so immediately, there's a little bit of disappointment from both of you. All he wants is my body. I'm not even a participant. All she wants is to just not be erotic and not. Whatever. Think about the tension building and the play building and the arrows that would be in your home. If you both. And I'm making something up here. You both learned Spanish, and then you went on a date in Spanish and you both were people. Like, you were both from Spain and you went to some. You see what I'm saying? Like, this thing could end in this wild, romantic night, but it's about getting the layer beneath the layer beneath the layer. You know what I'm saying here? Is it like, am I sound like a lunatic?

[Patrick]

No, I get you. I totally understand. It makes sense. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I also know that this can be incredibly terrifying and very lonely. And I hate that for you.

[Patrick]

Yeah. Well, some of the. Some of the things that you mentioned are great. And I have talked about some of this stuff with her and it seems like, I mean, again, like the stuff I bring up, she's not interested in it. And the stuff that she brings up, I try, but then again, it just feels like it goes nowhere.

[John DeLoney]

Is the interest in, I'm not interested in being a member. I don't want. I don't want to be a cast member in that particular movie. Or is it. I don't want to have that adventure with you.

[Patrick]

It's.

[John DeLoney]

I'm not interested in sharing. I'm not interested in like that particular roller coaster.

[Patrick]

I'm honestly not sure.

[John DeLoney]

I think that's the question because my guess is there are some things that people say, dude, I'm just not comfortable with that or that hurts, or I don't feel good like that. That. That's part of it. And that's just about open dialogue and talking back and forth. But often if there is a pattern of performance, a pattern of, I am, I'm just doing this for you, but I am not a. I'm not doing this with you. Then just another layer, another outfit, another whatever, another fantasy to layer on top of that. I'm not really interested in that. But I don't. I don't want to be an actor in your movie. But if I. But if you'll let me co. Write a script with you, I'll be in for that.

[Patrick]

That's good. Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And so the layer beneath it is I feel loved when you've been thinking about me all day. And I feel loved when I know that you can't keep your hands off me. And so what world would we have to create where that was possible? And her saying. And you saying with her, this sounds like one of the most valuable things she values with you is your time.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so what does that look like? But I feel like there's a lot of whack a mole intimacy up on top of the surface here, and there's just lower layers. What's your chief. What's your chief fear in this marriage.

[Patrick]

Now? I guess it would be that.

[Joe]

She.

[Patrick]

Just wouldn't want to. She would show no interest in getting to know me or not care about wanting to enter my world or know what's really going on in my mind or.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, have you said those things?

[Patrick]

Have I said those things to her?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yes, I have.

[John DeLoney]

She just said, you're right, I don't want to know you.

[Patrick]

She admitted to having those feelings in the past, in the early years of her marriage. What's that?

[John DeLoney]

Sorry, what feelings? I don't even want to know him.

[Patrick]

Yeah, feelings like she just is married to me because I'm the breadwinner and she doesn't really want to get to know me on a deeper level. And that's the way we got through our first seven or eight years of marriage. And you know, I almost left the family, I almost got a divorce back then. But things are different now. We've worked through a lot of our issues and it's a lot better now than it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago. But I'm just afraid that that's going to come back.

[John DeLoney]

Is there, is that possible?

[Patrick]

I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

Is it probable?

[Patrick]

I don't know. I can see, I can see how it could be, how it could happen. Yes.

[John DeLoney]

But do you also see how you're creating a self fulfilling prophecy?

[Patrick]

Not exactly.

[John DeLoney]

Things were bad seven or eight years ago, no question. Me have a woman telling you, like, I really didn't care about you. You were a safe bet and I needed a, a warm bed to sleep in and so I was willing to high five you a couple times a week. I didn't really care about you. And you felt that every second of your life seven or eight years ago. And did you, did you have somebody on deck during that time? Do you have a coworker that made you laugh or somebody that you texted back and forth with that you thought, man, this would be my, my off ramp?

[Patrick]

Not really, no.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so you just were all alone in your misery?

[Patrick]

Yeah, I was pretty lonely.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so your body put a GPS pin in that and now you hedge, you don't tell the full truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth because that would have gotten you burned seven or eight years ago. And what it's hard to realize is the house is on fire right now. And so you're not going to tell her everything. She's just going to continue to. You're going to live in your head and you're going to act it out in real life and she's just going to put up with it and you're going to find yourself back in that same pattern of she will participate a couple of days a week because it keeps you happy and it keeps the money depositing in the direct deposit. And as much as you're in your head during those times, she's for sure in her head thinking about other things, right? Like bills or laundry or whatever else, but not what you wish she was thinking about. And it just creates what all y'all have already had. And that's different than sitting down and saying, I want us to build something together and giving her the opportunity to say, I'm not doing that because you got to deal with that issue. Does that make sense?

[Patrick]

Yeah, it does.

[John DeLoney]

And I know it's terrifying. Do you think she's gonna, like, be out or that she's gonna force you to say, okay, then I don't want to be a part of this?

[Patrick]

No, divorce is not on the table. There's. There's no chance of us separating. But.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, here's what's beautiful about what you just said. There's no chance this ends. Zero. And so now all you have to choose is one or the other. Do we want a home of eros and desire and playfulness and fun and connection? Or do we want a house of loneliness and performance and a descending misery? Because we're not going to leave? And one of those seems infinitely more fun than the other. And one of those are both. I mean, the, the. The playful, fun life's pretty hard. Let's just have as much fun as we can in this deal. Means we're not gonna have sex all the time. And it means not every night of sex is gonna be the Super Bowl. There is just gonna be boring married sex sometimes. And that's great. It's awesome. And there's gonna be what one woman told me. It feels like a warm hug. It's just connective. It's not adventurous. It's not. It's not that. It's just gentle connection, good time. And then there's adventure nights. Then there's fun times. And there's also, hey, what does intimacy look like outside of the bedroom? Let's sign up for a dance class together. Let's do. Oh, you want to do things with me? I'm going to make you a priority in my life. Life. We're going to co create. We're going to co write this script. You're not just going to be an actor three nights a week in my head. And that's just a totally different life. And, and bro, just so you know, you're not by you're not alone, man. This is the state of modern marriage. Two people expecting the other person to fulfill them instead of sitting down and saying, dude, let's make something amazing together. And it's not going to be amazing all the time, but let's build towards something awesome where we laugh a lot and play a lot. And I'm going to concede here, and I'm going to compromise here. And I don't even know why you're kind of into this, because it's kind of weird, but I'm going to play along as long as I feel comfortable and I feel safe. And that's too weird, or that's super painful, or I can't. All right, let's have that conversation. Let's just have it. And sometimes the eros is in the conversation. Tell me more about that. What is it that's exciting about that? Where did that even pop into your head? Right? That can become some of the most intimate conversations and learning. And you learn about your fears, learn about what you're into, learn about what scares you, learns about what, like, really makes your heart start beating, man. What feels a little deviant. All those things, man, you get to share that with somebody. Especially anchored in, well, we're never leaving each other ever. Gosh, that sounds amazing. But you both got to be willing to go for it, go all in. I'm grateful for you, brother. Thanks for being open and for giving me a buzz. I think the conversation that I would start with if I was in your situation would be take my wife out and say, hey, I realized over the last four or five years, our marriage has gotten good. It's gotten real good. But I've made you an actor in my world, in my movie. I want to write something with you. Let's do this together. Let's go build something amazing. And in so doing, I want you to tell me, beneath, let's do a class together. Beneath, I want you to wear a nurse's outfit together. Whatever. The thing is, beneath all that, like, what kind of world do we want to create? What does that look like? Thank you so much for the call, my brother. I'm grateful for you. All right. You know this. I'm a founding member of the Anti Internet club. I think I'm the only member. But listen, I'm all over the Internet these days. You are, too. And as a society, we're creating more and more online accounts all the time. We're signing up for promos, giving away our email addresses. We're buying everything with our phones. I get Hundreds of emails to my personal account trying to sell me stuff, all kinds of stuff, and I hate it. And I also know it's not going away anytime soon, which is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete Me. With all of our online activity, do we really know where our data is and who has it? Chances are high that data broker websites have your information and they're selling it to scammers, spammers and other shady people. But when you use Delete Me, they find and remove your data from hundreds of sites and they send reports throughout the year to show you exactly what they've removed and from where. And right now I'm getting way fewer of those spammy texts and phone calls, which allows me to let my guard down just a little bit and feel some peace this holiday season. Share the piece by giving a Delete Me subscription to someone you love. Individual Delete Me plans start as low as nine bucks a month. Go to JoinDeleteMe today for 20% off. That's join J-O I n join DeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, if you're still with us on New Year's Day, there's three highlights from this past year. The shows that performed pretty well on the Internet. Kelly, what's one of your, one of your goals? What's one of your goals for 2025?

[Kelly]

So I'm, I'm kind of the past Last half of 2024 really started taking a, a hold of my health. So, you know, early in 2024 I started working out and consistently five to six days a week, every morning, 5am working out. And then I've started making some other changes and I'm down about 10 pounds. So my goal is to be to continue on that, to lose a little bit more, just to feel better about myself. So that's probably my biggest goal is, you know, when you have a special needs child and you focus on everybody else, but to kind of focus on getting myself at a better place.

[John DeLoney]

That's pretty awesome. Congratulations.

[Kelly]

There's some specifics, but that's the gist.

[John DeLoney]

What about you? Let's go into the deep specific.

[Kelly]

No, let's not. What about you? I'm sure it's to talk nicer to me and to, to be nicer.

[John DeLoney]

We can just agree to disagree on that one. All right. I think you've pretty much won the, won the lottery on this one. I, I've got several. I'm trying to think in what order I want to talk to him about. I guess, I guess the big one is. Yeah, kind of like you mentioned, the last two or three years has really been kind of circle in the airport, on, in airplane, on. I try things out a lot and I do a lot of 30 day challenges and equals one experiments and I try this gadget in this program or whatever. And I think 2025 for me is a season of flipping a switch, which is making some peace with some things to really put into practice. Some of the things my buddy Lane Norton says and Sal says about like. And Jordan sighs like, am I gonna hate myself anymore? I'm just, I'm just done with that season of my life, the first half, right. I'm just kind of done of not liking Deloney and I'm gonna make some peace with some things and really settle into. No, this is just how we do life. We move and we treat each other right and we take care of things and we don't buy stupid stuff and we don't mainline red number 30 and blue number 40 or whatever. Those things are in the form of.

[Kelly]

Some sort of gummy something.

[John DeLoney]

Some sort.

[Kelly]

I will tell you, the flipping the switch and changing my mindset on the I deserve this time. This 5am super early in the morning. This is about me because I deserve it. It took a few months at the beginning of the year of just me. Like, I hate everything about this, but now it is such a joy to take that time because I do deserve it. And that mindset and I'll. That's Sal 100 right there. That has been such a game changer for me and I really advise everyone try that.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And, and the idea, even this morning, today's a packed, packed, packed day and I won't get done working. I won't walk off stage. I've got an event tonight. I won't walk upstage till late tonight. The thought of like what, what can I do right now, like to feel awesome today? Not a thing I have to do, but what's a thing that I can do to feel awesome today? And that's just such a shift, right? Like I just want to feel great. And so I'm gonna lift and I'm gonna eat something healthy and I'm gonna go outside. Like just some little things like that. That again, it's just flipping a switch. I think Sal's the one who says the man who loves a journey will always walk further than the man who's got a fixed destination. And I love that idea. Right? So that's, that's, that's it for me. I'm just. I'm done. I'm done just hating on Deloney. So I'm kind of finished with that. And so now it's time to.

[Kelly]

I'll get there eventually.

[John DeLoney]

Are you. It's a long. Let's slow down. That's the 20. We got 2026.

[Kelly]

The journey. The journey.

[John DeLoney]

That's the journey. It's the journey. Hey, love you guys. Seriously. Write down, write it, it down who you want to be this year. And then keep listening to our show. Keep passing the show around. Hit the subscribe button. Thank you for being with us and making 2024 a wild, memorable year. And just hang on to your hats, because 2025 is about to set off. Love you guys. Bye. Hey, what's up, folks? Big news. The Dr. John DeLoney show is now available a full week early in the Ramsey Network app. That's right. You can catch all the real talk of mental health, relationships, emotional health before anyone else. And the best part, it's completely free. Just click the link in the show notes to download the Ramsey Network app and start watching early today.