Greatest Hits Vol. 5: Your Favorite Calls of 2025

Summary

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The Dr. John Delony Show – “Greatest Hits Vol. 5: Your Favorite Calls of 2025”

Released: December 31, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony, Ramsey Network
Theme: The most talked-about, controversial, and impactful calls of 2025—three emotional, thought-provoking listener stories about infidelity, trust, and commitment.

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Overview of the Episode

For this special “Greatest Hits” edition, Dr. John Delony and his co-hosts revisit three of the year’s most commented-upon, drama-filled calls, sparking conversations about the painful realities and hard choices in marriage and relationships. From infidelity and broken trust to recurring threats of divorce, these calls put listeners’ emotions and opinions into overdrive and offer raw reflections on hope, honesty, and personal responsibility.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Will’s Story: Affair, Fantasy, and Avoiding Reality

[03:21 – 21:08]

Background

• Will calls in from Nashville, married five years, and has been having an affair with his close friend’s wife for eight months.
• Neither his wife nor his friend knows about the affair.
• Will’s question: Is this actual love, or just the thrill of the forbidden?

Dr. John’s Approach and Insights

• Confronting the Fantasy: John challenges Will for living in denial and creating a fantasy world to avoid the consequences of his actions.
  • “Your questions are so divorced from the reality with which you actually find yourself that it tells me that you've had to construct a world where this is okay... If you didn't have that kind of psychological moat around what you're actually doing, you would implode.” — John ([07:09])
• No Room for ‘Is It Love?’: Before Will can consider the legitimacy of his feelings for the affair partner, he must be honest and confront the pain he’s caused.
  • “No place in this conversation are we talking about 'are these feelings real or not'... Not until we've looked your wife in the eye and said, ‘I've blown our marriage up and I don't want to be with you anymore.’ Not until you've looked your buddy in the eye and said, ‘I've been sleeping with your wife for a year, and I'm sorry.’” — John ([08:14])
• Brutal Analogy: John uses vivid metaphors to force Will out of denial.
  • “It's like you're in Los Angeles right now, watching your house burn down and wondering where you're going to put the new kitchen during the rebuild.” — John ([07:46])
• Choice and Consequence: The only way forward is total honesty and bracing for the fallout—knowing full well that the probability of a successful relationship with the affair partner is “very, very, very low.” ([08:59])
• On Love:
  • “Love is not a feeling. It's a choice you make every single day. It's a decision... And a marriage is a choice that two people make every single day of their life.” — John ([17:54])

Action Steps for Will

• Tell his wife immediately about the affair.
• Prepare himself to lose both his marriage and friendship.
• Anchor back to reality and start rebuilding from ground zero.

Notable Quotes

• “You can't be sleeping with somebody else's wife and trying to see if your marriage is going to make it. That's madness, Will. Madness.” — John ([12:25])
• “Today needs to be the day that you tell your wife, we gotta talk. I've been having an eight month affair with our mutual friends...” — John ([12:51])

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2. Lawrence’s Story: Marriage, Pornography, and Irretrievable Trust

[24:04 – 39:46]

Background

• Lawrence, married only seven months, admits to secretly subscribing to adult content (“OnlyFans”), discovered by his wife.
• His wife, upon discovering the recurring charges, immediately demands a divorce despite prior couples counseling.
• Lawrence is heartbroken, still in therapy, desperately hoping for a reconciliation.

Dr. John’s Approach and Insights

• Owning the Hole: John diagnoses Lawrence’s underlying insecurity—feeling “less than” his wife and living from a place of shame.
  • “When you first started talking, you came into this marriage thinking you were less than her... All of your actions are from a position of, ‘I'm in a hole.’ Until you stop walking around giving your credit card to a porn company is in-the-hole behavior.” — John ([32:07])
• Trust Above All: The breach is not simply about porn; it’s about dishonesty and violated trust.
• Exhaling Reality:
  • “You have to exhale that this is over... she wants a divorce, she’s filed paperwork. It’s happening.” — John ([31:04])
• Stop Digging: Lean into therapy for personal growth, not to ‘win her back.’
  • “You can't go to all this therapy and do all this stuff to try to win her back. You gotta go to therapy and stuff because there's something not right... There is healing on the other side, man. But you gotta own the reality of where you find yourself.” — John ([37:47], [38:46])

Notable Quotes

• “People can judge her all day long, but she got every right to walk. It's you that's got to exhale and go, okay, this is happening. What's going to be different next time?” — John ([38:34])
• “When you put that kind of pressure on somebody [calling her a unicorn]...You find somebody and you choose to love them. And you keep showing up, and you keep showing up, and you keep showing up.” — John ([38:35])

Action Steps for Lawrence

• Grieve the marriage.
• Focus on personal therapy and self-worth.
• Prepare for life after divorce by focusing on healing and self-respect.

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3. Devin’s Story: Emotional Blackmail and Drawing Boundaries in Marriage

[41:23 – 58:44]

Background

• Devin’s wife repeatedly threatens to leave (via ultimata), especially over disagreements (latest: having a third child).
• Devin does almost all household responsibilities and lives in fear of abandonment, leading to an anxious, unbalanced marriage.
• He feels stuck—unable to break the “dance” of over-compensating and not asserting his own needs.

Dr. John’s Approach and Insights

• Naming the Problem: John bluntly calls out Devin’s wife’s emotional immaturity and the ongoing infidelity—not of the physical kind, but of faithfulness to the marriage.
  • “If somebody is always threatening to leave you, they have left. They aren't in.” — John ([45:32])
• Metaphor of Cheating: Equates her repeated threats to a form of cheating, as real as emotional or sexual infidelity.
  • “This is the same thing… That’s cheating. That is not giving you her full self. And so you're just feeding on scraps and you’re starving to death.” — John ([47:04])
• Restore Agency: Devin must reclaim his own identity and boundaries, instead of living to avoid her threats.
  • “If I stop doing this one nice thing, is she going to leave?... You have to hear me say, you're worth being whole.” — John ([54:05])
  • “I'm not doing this for punishment. I'm doing it so I can be whole.” — John ([54:16])
• Practical Plan: Lay out a “retreat” for the new year—map out identities, needs, responsibilities, and what it means to be “in” the marriage. Clearly reallocate household and emotional labor to ensure both partners are present and whole.
• Confronting Reality: Devin is urged to stop reading “tea leaves” and instead invite his wife to a transparent adult conversation.
  • “She has no incentive to change her life, because she likes her life as it is, because she does nothing. She just pulls you around on a leash and she's always got this atom bomb in her pocket.” — John ([57:45])
• Ultimate Challenge: “You deserve to be married to a man who is whole. And I deserve to be married to someone who is whole, who is all in. What do you need? I'll do everything I can in my power to make that true.” — John ([56:55])

Action Steps for Devin

• Set a clear conversation to define both partners’ needs and commitments.
• Establish new, equitable household roles.
• Commit to being “whole” regardless of his wife’s decisions, and stop living in fear of abandonment.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Deep Metaphor:
  “It's like you're watching your house burn down and wondering where you're going to put the new kitchen during the rebuild.” — John, to Will ([07:46])

• On Fantasy vs. Reality:
  “Until you anchor back into Earth, any conversations you’ll have are just fantasy. They're just Disney movies. They're not real.” — John ([09:36])

• On when marriage is already over:
  “Your house has already burned to the ground. Hers, too. They're gone. They're over. The marriage you had is over. The little Plate time you'll have together is over. You all have to decide what we're going to build next.” — John, to Will ([19:23])

• On trust and honesty:
  “Giving your credit card to a porn company is in-the-hole behavior.” — John, to Lawrence ([32:44])

• Emotional starvation in marriage:
  “You’re just feeding on scraps and you’re starving to death.” — John, to Devin ([47:10])

• On agency and boundaries:
  “I'm not doing it for punishment. We’re doing it so you can be whole. Finally. You’ve never been whole in this relationship.” — John, to Devin ([54:16])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Will’s Call (Affair): 03:21 – 21:08
• Lawrence’s Call (Trust & Pornography): 24:04 – 39:46
• Devin’s Call (Ultimatums & Boundaries): 41:23 – 58:44

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Tone & Style

• Direct, no-nonsense: John never sugarcoats the pain or gravity of relational betrayal.
• Compassionate, yet tough: While Dr. John expresses empathy, he’s unafraid to confront denial, delusion, and “verbal gymnastics.”
• Vivid analogies: Comparing infidelity to a house burning down or marriages adrift as crashing planes.
• Practical: Clear, actionable steps are given, even for seemingly hopeless situations.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This “greatest hits” episode pulls no punches—the calls revolve around the hardest questions of marriage: Can I admit what I’ve done? Can I build trust after betrayal? Can I stop living in fear and finally ask for what I need? Dr. John Delony’s answers are sobering but hopeful, reminding everyone that transformation starts only when you return to reality and own your actions. Whether it’s ending an affair, stepping into the pain of divorce, or reclaiming your wholeness from emotional manipulation, these stories will get you talking—and thinking—long after the episode ends.

Transcript

[John]

These are the calls that we picked that caused the most dust up in comment sections. Tell me about that.

[Co-host 1]

People had some thoughts about these calls. So, listeners, these are your fault.

[Will]

We have been in an affair now for the last probably eight months or so.

[John]

It is New Year Year's Eve, and if you're with us, I'm super glad you are here. Or if it's gone into the New year and you're just getting the download of this show, you're driving home from something, you are waking up wondering what couch you're sleeping. Wherever you happen to find yourself, I'm.

[Co-host 2]

Glad that you're here. Happy New Year.

[John]

Like all of us, 2025 was a bit on the chaotic side.

[Co-host 2]

And I'm, I don't know, I get.

[John]

Accused of being.

[Co-host 2]

Pessimistically optimistic about everything. Like it's all coming down, but it's.

[John]

Going to be fine. And so I'm pessimistically optimistic that 2026 is going to be the year we transform and that we make things right on a grand scale. But I know this, we probably can't all affect much of that stuff, but we can affect the things in our.

[Co-host 2]

Own hearts and our own heads and our own families and our own homes.

[John]

And our own marriages and our own.

[Co-host 2]

Kids and with our own friends. So we're going to start there.

[John]

I'm glad that you're with us. To this show is a special Kelly 2.0. I mean, divided by two Kelly 1.0.

[Co-host 2]

The.

[John]

You're. You're the square root of Kelly 2.0. You're like the, the horse covered buggy and she's a Tesla. It's okay.

[Co-host 1]

Wow, what's like New Year, New John, come on.

[John]

No, it's not New Year's yet. It's New Year's Eve tomorrow, man.

[Co-host 2]

New Year, New me, totally. Kindness.

[Co-host 1]

I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

[Co-host 2]

I'm sure you are.

[John]

All right, so this is the best of. These are three shows. Three.

[Co-host 1]

We call them the greatest hits here.

[John]

Greatest hits.

[Co-host 2]

Oh yeah, I got greatest hits. That's awesome.

[John]

It's the greatest hits of 2025. These are the calls that we picked that caused the most dust up in comment sections. Tell me about that.

[Co-host 1]

Well, normally our calls get, I don't know, a couple hundred, maybe five or six hundred comments.

[John]

These calls got thousands and thousands.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, so like one 3,500, 5,500. And one of them got 8,500 comments. So these people had some thoughts about these calls. So, listeners, these are your fault or you did this or however you want to put it.

[John]

But for whatever reason, these caused drama or strong feelings, which in return caused more strong feelings. And so we're going to run them back. We put them all in one episode. This is 2025's greatest hits. Three calls guaranteed to get you and those in the car with you right now talking.

[Co-host 2]

Buckle up.

[John]

Thanks for joining us on the best of 2025 episode. And make good choices tomorrow. Let's go right down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee and talk to Will. What's up, Will? How we doing, man?

[Will]

Hey, John, how's it going?

[John]

I'm doing all right, brother. What's up?

[Will]

Hey, so I got a quick question for you here. I, I kind of got myself in a little bit of predicamen.

[Devin]

So I'll.

[Will]

Just get right into it. My wife and I, we've been married for about five years and in that time frame I was able to reconnect with a friend of mine that I had made, a male friend of mine that I had made after high school and whatnot. Started to kind of hang out with, with him and found out kind of through hanging out with him that his, his wife kind of made a pass at me. And we been in an affair now for the last probably eight months or so. We've obviously talked about just about everything under the sun. And I guess I'm trying to figure out, you know, if I, am I interested in this person or is it just the thrill of having an affair and doing something obviously that, you know, you're not supposed to do? And so I'm trying to, trying to figure out how to figure that out because, you know, I, I just want a little bit of advice on trying to, how to progress forward with that.

[John]

Oh, man. So let me just walk it back.

[Co-host 2]

And you can just, yeah. Tell me up or down.

[John]

So you are sleeping with a great friend's wife.

[Lawrence]

Correct.

[Co-host 2]

Does your friend know?

[Will]

He does not.

[John]

Does your wife know?

[Will]

She does not.

[John]

And so you're not calling me to.

[Co-host 2]

Ask like, oh God, I've blown up my life in my wife's life and I've blown up one of my close buddies lives. It's not why you're calling.

[John]

You're calling to ask is this true love or not?

[Will]

I'm calling to ask because, you know, in the time that I've chatted with this person, you know, we've obviously we've, we've talked a lot more about the, the, just the, the physical nature of, of things and you know, there's been times where we've both had the idea that, you know, our lives potentially could be better with that other person. But obviously that's not something that I, you know, want to. I don't want to jump into something or I don't want it to technically pursue something, and then turns out it was just because of the thrill of an affair. I mean, my wife and I, we've had our struggles and our issues pre the involvement of the affair, or my friend almost called it off a few different times without that being a factor. So I think it was just kind of came across at the timing that I was the most vulnerable to accept it. But, yeah.

[John]

So. So I guess the best thing I.

[Co-host 2]

Could tell you, or the right thing.

[John]

I could tell you is you are so what? It's like you're watching the Lion King. You're watching, like, a. You're watching, like, a Disney movie in.

[Co-host 2]

The theater, and you're watching these animals.

[John]

All talking to each other, and you're.

[Co-host 2]

Wondering what it would be like to talk to one of those animals, too.

[Devin]

Like, okay, your.

[John]

Your questions are so divorced from the.

[Co-host 2]

Reality with which you actually find yourself that it tells me that you've had.

[John]

To construct a world where this is.

[Co-host 2]

Okay, and there's a world that everything's.

[John]

Going to be okay on the other end of this. Because if you didn't have that kind.

[Co-host 2]

Of psychological moat around what you're actually doing, you would implode because you become somebody that you could never have imagined you would be.

[John]

You're sleeping with it.

[Will]

That makes sense.

[John]

You're sleeping with one of your closest friends, wives, period.

[Devin]

Right.

[John]

Actively, for over a year, having sex.

[Co-host 2]

With somebody that's not your wife, putting.

[John]

Her at physical danger, putting her at grave emotional danger. I mean, like. And what you're thinking about is, man, isn't this going to be wonderful on the other side of this thing? It's kind of like watching. It's like. It's like you're in Los Angeles right now, watching your house burn down and wondering where you're going to put the new kitchen during the rebuild.

[Will]

Right?

[Co-host 2]

Like, you're not absorbing reality.

[John]

And so, number one, no place in this conversation are we talking about how.

[Co-host 2]

Are these feelings real or not? Not until we've looked your wife in the eye and said, I've blown our marriage up and I don't want to be with you anymore.

[John]

Not until you've looked your buddy in.

[Co-host 2]

The eye and said, I've been sleeping with your wife for a year, and I'm sorry. And after the ash Settles back to earth after that conversation. Those conversations, then you can ask yourself, okay, are we.

[John]

Are we in a relationship? Are we going to try to build this thing and make it go and move forward together? Which.

[Co-host 2]

The percentages on that. Just the. The scientifically, the.

[John]

The percentages of those relationships being successful.

[Co-host 2]

Are very, very, very low.

[Will]

Right?

[John]

Because then the old bumper sticker, like, it's true somewhere, somebody else is.

[Co-host 2]

Is tired of her, too. And you also, right. Like, y' all get. Y' all just living in a fantasy world where you don't have to deal with reality.

[John]

You just get to have these romantic, oh, my gosh. Conversations, and you get me and passion, and we get to have sex in a.

[Co-host 2]

There's nothing anchored to it in reality like dishes and bills and, hey, we're.

[John]

Trying to build a life together. And I want to do this, but I want to do this. Yeah, y'. All. Y' all have to.

[Co-host 2]

Y' all are skipping all of that. So until you anchor back into Earth.

[John]

Any conversations you'll have are just fantasy. They're just Disney movies.

[Co-host 2]

They're not real. Why.

[John]

Why haven't you sat down and had that conversation with your wife yet?

[Will]

So we've been obviously dealing, like I had previously stated, we had been dealing with our own, obviously, struggles.

[John]

Yeah, but you just. You took struggle.

[Co-host 2]

Every marriage has to. I've had nightmare struggles.

[John]

You went.

[Co-host 2]

You went the next step.

[Devin]

Right.

[Will]

So haven't sat down and talked with her about it, because I guess I'm kind of put it in my mind that if this marriage that I have with my wife were to potentially fail, that I didn't want this reasoning of what's going on, bro.

[John]

You have failed it. Like, you're the failure. You get what I'm saying?

[Will]

Right?

[John]

And I'm sure she's got her own challenges. I'm not saying she's perfect, but.

[Devin]

Right.

[John]

Like, you're actively sleeping with your buddy's wife. You're like, well, if this thing doesn't work right. It's like you're the one that's not.

[Co-host 2]

Working right in it.

[John]

You get what I'm saying?

[Devin]

Right?

[Will]

No, I'm. I'm aware of that part. What I'm saying is that, like, obviously our marriage pre this had obviously its problems. We're trying. We were trying to, you know, work on those things, and I obviously made the mistake initially. And, you know, her and I, we haven't engaged in anything in a while because obviously, I'm taking a step back. But it's also one of those that it's at the point where I feel like in order to build with my wife, if that's what her and I choose to do, then I need to obviously be upfront and honest with her about everything that has happened. And if I do that, then, bro.

[John]

Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. You're.

[Co-host 2]

And I like, I'm really close to compassionate for you right now. I'm frustrated with you, I'm angry with you, but I'm also compassionate because I think you have created a delusion that you live in and you use.

[Will]

I wouldn't disagree with that.

[John]

You use these huge circular. Well, you know, and then we might.

[Co-host 2]

Listen to me so carefully. You're having sex with another man's wife and you're getting going home and you're laying in your bed next to yours, you're having sex with your buddy's wife, and then y' all go have dinner together as a foursome. That is where everything has to start.

[John]

You can't be sleeping with somebody else's.

[Co-host 2]

Wife and trying to see if your marriage is going to make it. That's madness, Will. Madness.

[John]

And you can't be hanging out with your buddy while you're banging his wife and be like, well, I'm trying to.

[Co-host 2]

Figure out if our feelings are right or wrong or.

[John]

What are you doing, man? You get what I'm saying?

[Will]

No, I get what you're saying. I think so.

[John]

Like today. Today needs to be the day. Today needs to be the day that you tell your wife, we gotta talk. I've been having an eight month affair with our.

[Co-host 2]

Our mutual friends and I've blown our marriage to smithereens.

[John]

Yes, we had problems. Yes, there were holes in the boat.

[Co-host 2]

And I detonated it.

[John]

And you, being a grown man, need.

[Co-host 2]

To say, I've already got me an apartment. I've already got me a friend's couch to crash on because I know I've blown your world up and I don't want you to have to move.

[John]

And maybe she comes back and says, well, I should probably tell you I've.

[Co-host 2]

Been sleeping with somebody else too. Maybe, right? Maybe. Who knows?

[John]

Is she having an affair too?

[Will]

I would doubt it. Okay, obviously, I don't know, but.

[John]

And then you ask your friend, I'm.

[Co-host 2]

Going to meet you in a diner here in Nashville. We got to talk. Or you tell your. The woman you're having an affair with, hey, you got 24 hours because I got to come clean with my buddy. I've become somebody that I never dreamed I would be, and I have to.

[Will]

Stop I think that's, that's where I've been struggling because it's like I have gotten far down the road, obviously, and I think in my mind I have this delusion that there is a different path out besides going back.

[John]

There's not a way to land the plane. There is no going back. But your fantasy about how this plane.

[Co-host 2]

Lands is false too.

[John]

Both are true. So there's no going back.

[Co-host 2]

You blew it up. The boat's gone.

[John]

You and your wife might choose to go to swim to shore amid all.

[Co-host 2]

The rubble and rebuild a new boat. That happens all the time. And I'll walk with you if that's what y' all want to do. You and this other person have a.

[John]

Sliver, teeny tiny sliver of statistical probability.

[Co-host 2]

That you've blown up your life, she's blown up hers, and y' all choose to build a boat together on whatever shore y' all swim to. Maybe.

[John]

But you'll always wonder if she's sleeping.

[Co-host 2]

With somebody else like she did with you and vice versa. This is very shaky ground to build a new thing, but it happens. But there is no.

[John]

Like, then you have a hard conversation with your wife and she's like, well, I don't really want to work on this. And you're like, that's cool. I already have a four bedroom, three bath house with somebody else. And her, your buddy, her husband is.

[Co-host 2]

Like, ah, well, it didn't work out this time. That's just not how this ends, man.

[Devin]

Right.

[John]

And so the quicker you can re.

[Co-host 2]

Anchor to reality and from a place, from the inside out, because, dude, you have, you have created a verbal gymnastics studio that you just swirl around and ride the monkey bars in, but your feet never touch the ground.

[John]

You've got to be able to look.

[Co-host 2]

Yourself in the mirror and say, dude, I blew my life up. Like, do you feel that?

[Will]

I think, honestly, like, I hear no.

[John]

I hear no remorse. No, like, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Well.

[Will]

No, I think it's, it's one of those that I'm trying to, you know, obviously I haven't let many people, if anybody, know about this situation, you know, so obviously I've only ever had my opinions weigh on it. And so having, you know, an outside source weigh in on it is obviously beneficial. But it's also making me hear things that I haven't heard, obviously things that were, are accurate, but I haven't heard because I'm not telling myself those.

[Co-host 2]

Okay, you need to.

[John]

After this call.

[Will]

Everyone, like, everyone likes to think that obviously there's a good way to land every plane in life, obviously. So, you know, I think I have been caught up trying to figure out if it's. Or if it's possible to land it versus actually realizing that it's not.

[John]

What you're trying to do is to convince yourself that if this is actually.

[Co-host 2]

Love or this is actually viable, these.

[John]

Feelings and the excitement of sleeping with somebody that's not your wife, which, dude, I don't. I don't. I don't begrudge you that one bit. You probably feel alive every time you sneak away, every time you almost get caught. And you don't. It does. It won't surprise me at all if you felt dead in your own skin.

[Co-host 2]

For the last five, six, seven years, however long you've been with her. I get that.

[John]

But you're trying to convince yourself that these feelings are somehow valid in the grand scheme of the cosmos and that it will justify.

[Co-host 2]

Destroying your wife's life and destroying the life of your buddy.

[John]

And so two things. Love is not a feeling.

[Co-host 2]

It's a choice you make every single day. It's a decision.

[John]

And a marriage is a choice that.

[Co-host 2]

Two people make every single day of their life, man. And so whatever happens with this other person, y' all have to choose that every single day.

[Devin]

Right.

[John]

Except that choice is going to be.

[Co-host 2]

Anchored into Styrofoam because, you know, oh.

[John]

She'S capable of blowing this whole thing.

[Co-host 2]

Up at any time, and I am, too. And she'll know that about you. That's why, statistically speaking, it's very unlikely that it continues.

[John]

But again, it's part of this psychological construct you're trying to build. Like, here, like, your plane is going down, and you're trying to, like, figure out the right way to pull the.

[Co-host 2]

Cushions off of the. The airplane seats so you land comfortably. It's not going to happen.

[John]

So what I'll tell you is, at.

[Co-host 2]

The end of this thing, there's a fire.

[John]

You can do a control burn right now and try.

[Co-host 2]

Or you can just wait till the whole thing goes up in smoke. But it's going to catch fire. It's already on fire.

[Will]

Yeah, I think I've just. I spent too much time dancing around and trying to figuring out how to make the fire as small as possible, when in reality, the focus should be on that the fire is happening regardless.

[John]

And I need you to internalize in your guts.

[Co-host 2]

Your house has already burned to the ground. Hers, too. They're gone. They're over. The marriage you had is over. The marriage she had is over. The little Plate time you'll have together is over. You all have to decide what we're going to build next.

[John]

But bro, you've got to come back.

[Co-host 2]

And re anchor to ground, man.

[John]

You've blown your life up and you've.

[Co-host 2]

Blown her life up and she's blown her life up. So, I mean, I, I, I don't.

[John]

Know a way that you're going to sleep all night. I don't know a way that you're.

[Co-host 2]

Going to have peace at all.

[John]

Until you sit down, have a conversation with.

[Co-host 2]

Your wife, till you let her know.

[John]

You got 24 hours. And I got to come clean with.

[Co-host 2]

My buddy because I'm not going to be this guy anymore. And there's a high statistical probability that when this smoke clears, you've got nobody. You got no friend, you've got no girlfriend, you've got no wife. That's a high, high probability. And then you'll have to choose to do the next right thing amid that ash.

[John]

But man, stop with the verbal gymnastics. Stop with the are these feelings real?

[Co-host 2]

But start with, I've cheated on you and I blew our life up. Been doing it for almost a year now, through the holidays, through your birthdays. I, I was seeing somebody else. I was sleeping with our friend.

[John]

Foreign.

[Co-host 2]

Let's start there. We'll be right back.

[John]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. I want to talk about traditions. Traditions are things you do every week.

[Co-host 2]

Or every year, and they can be great or they can be a heavy obligation.

[John]

The holiday season is a great time to reflect on holiday traditions, the valuable ones and the not so valuable ones and even the painful ones. Therapy can give you space to think about the old traditions that may not be serving you anymore and consider how you might create new ones. And if you're thinking about therapy this holiday season, I want you to call my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists and they're one of the leading online therapy providers in the world. They're trusted by millions. They have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. And BetterHelp is totally online, so it's easy to fit into your busy holiday schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions and they'll connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change at any time for no extra cost. This month, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com SL DeLone.

[Co-host 2]

All right.

[John]

Most of the stuff on supplement shelves is just garbage. If I'm going to take a supplement, it's got to be amazing. And that's why I've been taking Thorn supplements for years. When it comes to my mind and my body, I don't mess around. I use Thorn supplements for sleep, for performance, and for keeping my brain on track. So whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, a dad trying to show up for his family after a long day at the office, you deserve only the best. And when it comes to supplements, I want proof, not hype. Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing. Not Thorne. They make every product with science, not spin. In their world class facility In South Carolina, 35% of Thorne's employees work in one place. Quality control. And they reject 15% of the raw materials. Because good enough is not good enough when it comes to Thorn supplements. It's why pro athletes, Olympic teams and over 60,000 doctors trust Thorne. And that's why me and my family have been taking Thorne for years. Stop guessing about what's going into your body. Take what it actually needs and nothing that it doesn't. Go to thorne.com, the letter U. DeLoney to get 25% off your order. When you create an account that's T-H-O-R-N-E.com the letter U. DeLoney. Thorne supplements are the best. Let's go out to Memphis, Tennessee, right down the road from where I am and talk to Lawrence. What up, Lawrence?

[Lawrence]

Hey, Dr. John. Glad. Glad to be on. A little, Little nervous, but.

[John]

Oh, you're good, brother. Thanks for calling in, man.

[Lawrence]

Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, glad to be on. Nervous. Nervous to be on. This is a little. A little different for me.

[Co-host 2]

There you go.

[John]

Well, I appreciate you having the courage to reach out, man.

[Lawrence]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John]

So it's just you and me and a couple million people. It's all good.

[Lawrence]

Oh yeah. Nobody. Nobody listens, right?

[Co-host 2]

And trust me, no, nobody does listen.

[John]

So.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Lawrence]

So how do we. How we jump into this and.

[John]

Cannonball. Cannonball is the best way.

[Lawrence]

Cannonball.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Lawrence]

So. So a whole. Whole whopping seven months ago, married this amazing, beautiful woman. We started dating approximately three years ago and moved really fast. I mean, she was the unicorn that. That I. That every guy dreams of, dreams of running into. She started off kind of as a. As a client of mine through a hobby job that I was doing. And then we had. We had both recently, you know, ended Previous relationships and kind of found confidence in each other and quickly snowballed into a relationship and, you know, same hobbies, same interests, same, you know, everything. And we got married in May. I had brought a lot of baggage into the relationship financially and entered. Entered this marriage not really standing on my two feet, just trying to. Trying to play catch up with life and bad decisions in the past. And everything was great up until planning the marriage. Our relationship had kind of gotten a little rocky there for a little bit. And I kind of alluded to, you know, just the stress of planning a wedding and planning a marriage. And, you know, post wedding, you know, we had that little honeymoon phase and things just never. Never really ironed themselves out. And so we started going to couples counseling at the beginning of June, and first. First session was great. You know, I made it adamant. You know, I'm all in just personal. Personal values, upbringing, you know, all in. To work on your marriage and lean into it. And so I was all in. Our therapist gave us homework. We came back the following week, and she dropped a bombshell that she had gone back through a money tracking app that we had started doing together to kind of manage finances, kind of build a budget out, and she had found where I had basically paid for porn. It was something that I didn't deny it when she brought it up, I admitted to. Was something that I had struggled previously with years and years and years ago. Wouldn't necessarily say addicted to it, but struggled with it. I had stopped and then kind of relapsed back into it in the last year, year and a half.

[Devin]

And.

[Lawrence]

About August, I kind of had that realization of, you know, I'm a married guy. I've got a wife. What am I?

[Devin]

What am I doing?

[Lawrence]

And stopped cold turkey. But she went through that money app and did some digging and investigating on her own and found it. I had. I tried to cover it up. It was an app where you could change the name of the charges and things like that. I'd seen it on there. I tried to cover it up out of shame and guilt. Never admitted it to her out of shame and guilt. I had told her that I had. That I had previously had a problem with porn and admitted that to her later in our relationship out of a fear of being vulnerable to her and being judged for it. And I guess when she did her whole investigating and found blew up to I can't be trusted. She called me a cheater a couple times, which hurt. Which hurt the most, because I would never. While I understand that porn, you know, Some people can look at it as cheating. I would never act on that. I would never physically step out of my marriage.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, but she doesn't know that.

[Lawrence]

Yeah, she doesn't know that. But the trust thing is the hardest part, that she feels like she can't trust me. And she basically said that she wanted that she needed some time to think. And our therapist suggested the one week no contact. That was the hardest, longest week of my life, I thought at the time. And we reconvened and she walked into the therapy session late. I noticed she didn't have her wedding band on. When I saw her walk in the door, my heart immediately sank because that was the first thing that I noticed, that she wasn't wearing her wedding band. And she sat down and said she wanted a divorce. And my life has been basically crumbled since then. So we're a month post that last therapy session. Our therapist suggested we each individually see therapists again. I dove all in. I've been meeting with my therapist weekly here, more recently bi weekly. And I'm all in, you know, trying to do better for myself, fix my problems, my vulnerability, my honesty problems, vagueness problems, and trying to figure out how I can, you know, earn my wife. I still refer to my wife, although she's filed for divorce, so.

[John]

She has filed paperwork?

[Lawrence]

Yeah, she's filed paperwork. She's gotten her lawyer. I got my lawyer just to cover, you know, protect myself. And we're kind of letting the lawyers, you know, do their thing. But I'm still.

[John]

Okay.

[Co-host 2]

But so you got.

[John]

You have to exhale that this is over.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

And you haven't yet, have you?

[Lawrence]

No, I'm still trying to. I'm still trying to hold on, still trying to fight, because I do, I do love her with everything that I've got, and I'm willing to do anything to show her that I'm all in.

[John]

I know, but you got to hear her say she doesn't care.

[Lawrence]

Yeah, I know.

[Co-host 2]

It's hard to hear.

[Lawrence]

Yeah, it is.

[Co-host 2]

So how can I help you, man? I hate that you're going through all this.

[Devin]

I don't know. I understand.

[Lawrence]

You know, I've got to go through the self healing process first. I'm still going.

[John]

Well, you do, but.

[Lawrence]

Really just move. I'm in a hole and I'm just trying to figure out, you know, how that light at the end of this. At the end of the hole.

[John]

Yeah, stop digging. Yeah, stop digging. Okay, here's why I wrote this down. When you first started talking, you came into this Marriage thinking you were less.

[Co-host 2]

Than her.

[John]

Sexually, financially.

[Co-host 2]

Probably attractiveness.

[John]

Like you came in thinking, oh my.

[Co-host 2]

Gosh, look at the fish I got on this line.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[John]

And so everything, all of your actions are from a position of.

[Co-host 2]

I love how you just ended it.

[John]

I'm in a hole.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[John]

And until you stop working, walking around, giving your credit card to a, to a porn company is in the whole behavior.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

That is less than that is.

[John]

I am desperately trying to feel alive.

[Co-host 2]

In my own skin.

[John]

So much so that I'll take one of the most untrustworthy groups of people.

[Co-host 2]

On the planet and give them my account number.

[John]

Yeah, you said something that I want to make sure I double click on that.

[Co-host 2]

You, you kind of held some stuff.

[John]

Back from her because you were worried about her judging you. But I got a sense that you kind of feel right righteous about that. Like. Yeah, see when you found out, now you're judging me.

[Lawrence]

Not, not really. And I dove, I dove into that as I've always had issues with just being vulnerable.

[John]

Yeah.

[Lawrence]

Just previous, previous life. I, I lost my dad when I was in fifth grade and you know, I kind of was forced to grow up and had to put on this Persona of being 10 foot tall and bulletproof for family and stuff like that. And I've always had a, a problem of letting myself be vulnerable to other people. And I didn't realize how much that affected me until I dove in with my, my personal therapist.

[John]

So, so what?

[Lawrence]

So it was a scared, I was, I was scared of being, and I don't blame her for the way that she acted.

[John]

Well, hold on, hold on. It's very, very rare. I, I, I'm not sitting in day in and day out in marriage therapy offices.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[John]

So in, in law, law offices. But in my world, it is very.

[Co-host 2]

Very rare.

[John]

For somebody to find an old incidence of paying for or, or pornography. Search history found an old expense.

[Devin]

Because.

[John]

That story is not super ringing true with me. Either that or she wanted out of this thing so bad and she found a path.

[Lawrence]

Yeah, and, and that's what I'm thinking, that this was kind of a, a.

[Devin]

Death of a thousand cuts. And that was.

[John]

Yeah, but you only, you were only together seven months. There's not even time to have a thousand cuts unless you're screaming at her and hitting her and swearing and just being an all around scumbag. Right?

[Lawrence]

Yeah. No, and it was actually kind of, kind of the opposite direction.

[John]

So, so what was, what did she find?

[Lawrence]

That, that's what, that's what she told me. You Know, and there was really nothing else. I mean, I had. I tried to start. I tried to start a business right there when we got married, which took a lot of my time, which probably wasn't the smartest. Smartest move on my part.

[Co-host 2]

That's.

[John]

That. That's all fine and good. There's some. There's something else here, brother.

[Lawrence]

And I don't know, was it pornographic?

[John]

Was it like pornography? Or was it like webcam girl? Like, what. Was it interactive?

[Lawrence]

No, it wasn't interactive. It was only fans, but it was. I was strictly paying, paying for videos. There was no interaction there or anything like that. I was just paying. Paying for videos and subscriptions. And, you know, she. She. She basically said that, you know, a lot of lied about it. I relapse. I'm. I'm cheating on her.

[John]

Well. And you said you don't have an addiction problem, but you continue to use addiction language.

[Lawrence]

Yeah, and I was never clinically Dinosis.

[Devin]

Addicted.

[Lawrence]

Sure, I guess I. Yes, I am.

[John]

I don't. I mean, I don't think you are, just from what you're talking about, but I don't work with you day in.

[Co-host 2]

And day out, so I don't know, but.

[John]

I. Yeah, I. I really don't know.

[Co-host 2]

How I can help other than the.

[John]

Faster you exhale into. I mean, she's. It's one thing if she says, I want a divorce, takes her ring off, and then doesn't do anything for a month or two.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[John]

Then you for. In my world, that's the. So you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah, this is. This is filing. Here's the paperwork. The lawyers have a date, and we're moving down the road. That's when, like, here's the deal, man. You can't go to all this therapy and do all this stuff to try to win her back. You got to go to the therapy and stuff because there's something not right, and it might be that she's not right. And I'm not saying she can do whatever she wants. She can divorce you for whatever reason, and she's feels. This is infidelity. It's infidelity. I'm out. Okay.

[Co-host 2]

But.

[John]

Either. This is just. I don't know. I'd have to. I'd have to talk to both of you longer, I think, to. To get a better beat on this thing. But what I can tell you is the faster you exhale and grieve this thing, it's heartbreaking. You did some stuff. You weren't honest about it. It doesn't matter what anybody else's opinion on it is. She says that's a violation. That's infidelity. I'm out. I can't trust you sexually. I can't trust you financially.

[Co-host 2]

You hide things.

[John]

You go change labels. We went to marriage counseling in June, and it's August when I found this out. And so we've been through two or three months of counseling, and you didn't tell me. I'm out. I'm out. People could judge her all day long, but she got every right to walk. It's you that's got to exhale and.

[Co-host 2]

Go, okay, this is happening.

[John]

What's going to be different next time? And by the way, she's not a unicorn, dude. When you put that kind of pressure on somebody, that somehow you've found this mystical being that people tell you doesn't exist, you find somebody and you choose to love them. And you keep showing up, and you keep showing up, and you keep showing up. See how the best thing I can tell you, man, is keep seeing a counselor. But also put yourself in a position where you can begin to act differently in a way that you learn to trust you. Because right now, you're entering into all these relationships. The counselor, the marriage, the everything as from. From in a hole. Stop digging and just stand up. The hole's not as deep as you think it is. Stand up. And this one may have cost you everything. And dig down on the chin. That's another big loss for you, Press. Your dad and your marriage. It's tough. Tough, tough, tough, tough, tough. There is healing on the other side, man. But you got to own the reality of where you find yourself. Thanks for the call, man. Best of luck to you. Holler back if I can help in any way, man. If you've got some directed questions I can help with, I'd be happy to walk with you.

[Co-host 2]

We'll be right back.

[John]

Hey, I want to talk about my friends at Cove. You cannot control the world outside your front door.

[Co-host 2]

You just can't.

[John]

The news, the noise, the traffic. There's a lot out in the world that we simply can't control. And so I'm always looking for things that I can control that will make a difference inside my own home. As a dad and as a husband, this matters to me deeply. And that's why I love Cove Security and why I think you should love them, too. You want your home to be a place where your family can rest, laugh, and heal and even be a safe place when you're not at home. Cove gives you professional grade home security for less than a dollar a day. And it can actually help you breathe a little easier when you're at home and when you're gone. With COVID you get 247 monitoring for police, fire and medical emergencies. So even when your life gets chaotic, your home doesn't have to be. It's simple. Cove's DIY setup takes about 30 minutes. You customize your system with a quick online quiz so you get exactly what your home needs and nothing you don't. And with the COVID app, you can check in anytime, anywhere and look at what's going on in your home. Listen, you can't control everything, but you can create a home that feels safe, calm and protected. Go to cove smart.com and use my code DeLoney and save up to 80% off your first purchase. That's cove c o v e covesmart.com code DeLoney. All right, we are back. Let's go to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to Devin. Hey, Devin, what's up, man?

[Devin]

Hey, John, thanks for taking my call.

[John]

You got it. So we talked back in September. Refresh us what's going on in your life back in September.

[Devin]

All right, so back then my question was, hey, my wife gave me an ultimatum. Have a third baby or possibly she was walking. I called in to get a couple.

[Lawrence]

Of tools from you.

[Devin]

I used a couple of those. But now I'm coming back to the well to see if they have any more knowledge for me as I continue to navigate through this.

[Co-host 2]

So were my recommendations not great? It's okay if they weren't?

[Devin]

Well, you're, you're, you're fantastic. But I find myself in kind of another odd predicament with her. But I'll unpack. However you think would be.

[John]

Tell me about today's call. What's going on?

[Devin]

So the main point was we got to a point in that discussion over the third baby, which is really a proxy battle for me, kind of capitulating anything that she wants and her going nuclear, so to speak, if she didn't get what she wants. We got to the end of that and it came to that sort of lights up conversation that we had. And I said, listen, however we got here, you know, the important thing is that I think we try to build something new. So I kind of established I wanted to build something new. I wanted to put away all of the insecurities, all the issues we had, kind of put those down and just start something new. And she never really said if she was in or out. She was very Upset in that moment, obviously. But then a couple days went by where she was sad, and since then she's been normal ish, but not affectionate. So it's almost like she's in, but she doesn't want to say she's in because she's still kind of punishing me because she'll never forgive me. And I don't know how to re engage it and say, hey, you know, three months ago we had this weird conversation about whether you're going to leave or not. Never really said if you're leaving. So it's kind of walking on this anxious eggshells all the time, like, are.

[Lawrence]

You just going to leave or what's going on?

[John]

So what has stopped from sitting down and having, like, I wouldn't have been able to sleep for three months with the looming potential, like, separation. Like, what has kept you from sitting down over dinner and be like, hey.

[Co-host 2]

Or you mentioned you were leaving.

[John]

Are we all. Are you in?

[Devin]

So, honestly, the reason why I haven't brought it up to her again isn't because I'm afraid she said she was going to leave. I. I don't actually think she's going to leave, and she's not going to say that, but I think the problem is based on how our relationship goes. She's never going to ever say she's all in because she has to have that, like, over my head because she's been using that for years. Like, I could leave. You don't do xyz. So I feel like if I bring up the conversation, like, hey, let's resurrect this terrible conversation from a few months ago. She'll just be like, oh, I mean, obviously I'm in. But, like, you know, I don't know, maybe in a year from now I'll be unhappy. So, like, she'll never give me any resolution to it. That's why I don't bring it up, because it's like, all right. I mean, maybe the other part of that. And just to finish this point is, and I said this to her, if we go forward and we're not having another baby, I understand it's going to change the family picture that you had in your mind. So there'll be a season of grieving in your life, which I'll be, I'm all in. To help you with and walk with you through that. So I don't know if this is like, okay, she's kind of getting to acceptance her own way and she's in her grieving process, but how long Do I let that go before I go? Hey, you know, you can't. We can't live in an affectionate, less relationship forever because we're normal day to day. But there's just no effect on her part. It's just like, no, done this. She's kind of checked out that way, so it's odd.

[Co-host 2]

I.

[John]

Man, it pains me to say what I'm about to say because it kind of violates one of my core tenets, is that, okay.

[Devin]

Get after it.

[Co-host 2]

Your wife is incredibly immature.

[Lawrence]

Oh, yeah.

[John]

And I. I've got a close, close buddy that was telling me about this amazing therapist he has. And he said, what's so great is my therapist kind of his.

[Co-host 2]

His wife interpreter. And I was like, what does that mean?

[John]

Like, well, my wife will say things, and the therapist would be like, well, here's what she actually means. And it's so great. And I said, no, your therapist sucks. Because. Because you don't. You're not supposed to have an interpreter. You're supposed to learn to be mature and just say the thing.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[John]

Right. And like, be an adult. And if somebody is always threatening to.

[Co-host 2]

Leave you, they have left.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

They're out.

[John]

And they aren't in. And so you can't build anything. All you can do is. Is be drugged behind whatever truck she's.

[Co-host 2]

Driving down the road.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[John]

And so I guess what I would tell you is this isn't.

[Co-host 2]

She's not being a person of fidelity in your marriage.

[Devin]

Yeah, right. In this way. Correct. Yes.

[John]

She's not. Maybe she's not sleeping with somebody, but.

[Devin]

Sure.

[John]

This is.

[Co-host 2]

I know what you mean.

[John]

This is the same thing.

[Co-host 2]

You're like, yeah, she's not sleeping with anybody.

[John]

Like, here's the thing. It's similar to guys who.

[Co-host 2]

Spend every.

[John]

Waking moment that they're not at work.

[Co-host 2]

On the golf course.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[John]

And their wife is getting just. Just scraps. And then when you call them on it, they're like, what?

[Co-host 2]

What?

[John]

Are you kidding me? For real? I do all this and it. It's that. That's not being a person. That's cheating.

[Co-host 2]

You're just cheating with the golf course, right? Yeah.

[John]

What's happening to you is the same thing. It's just. Hey, are you said you're gonna leave.

[Co-host 2]

Me and these two kids.

[John]

Are you gonna leave? Oh, no. I don't know, man. Maybe Like. Like, that's. That's infidelity.

[Co-host 2]

That's cheating.

[John]

That is not giving you her full self. And so you're eating. Like, you're just feeding on scraps and.

[Co-host 2]

You'Re starving to death.

[Devin]

Yeah, I think that's completely true. And to kind of give you a little more depth on that, she. She's created this devious way in which she doesn't say, like, I. I don't know if she actually said directly, I believe, but she. She very strongly, like, intimates that. And she knows that that's my. But then, like, when I brought this up to her throughout the process, the other kind of smaller fights for this nuclear one, I directly articulate, like, I'm afraid that you will leave if I don't give you what you want. And she would kind of almost do this, not to overuse the word, but gaslight, like, why would I leave? I'm not gonna leave. And then we get to the next fight, and she's like, you know, I really can't do this anymore. I don't know what I'm gonna do. And so it's like she never says, like, I will leave, but she lays that thought in my head. And the reason why she'll never say, hey, hey, listen, I'm. I'm all in, is because if she does that, she's putting down that. That weapon she's always had, which she knows is my greatest insecurity. Like, I'm afraid you're going to leave.

[John]

So what if you do? What if you take all the bullets out of that weapon?

[Devin]

How so.

[John]

Like, we're recording this. We're coming up on the new Year.

[Devin]

Yes.

[John]

What if you let her know today.

[Co-host 2]

I've got childcare, and we're going to.

[John]

Take a Saturday and part of a Sunday, and you and I are going to map out 20, 25 together. And here's how we're going to map it out.

[Co-host 2]

We're going to map it out in four ways.

[John]

We're going to spend the morning talking about how we see each other. We're going to talk about things that we see the other person doing that are great. Then we're going to go to another restaurant.

[Co-host 2]

We're gonna go get coffee. We're gonna get morning brunch or whatever.

[John]

And we're gonna talk about known. What are the things going on in your guts? Are you happy in this home that we're creating together? How can we love each other better? And both people get to speak. Then we're gonna go to lunch. And then either during lunch or after lunch, we're gonna talk about celebration. Who do we want to be this year? What's that going to look like? Identity. How are we going to celebrate Each other. How are we going to cheer each other on and become each other's biggest cheerleaders? And then the fourth one is nuts and bolts. How are we going to make this thing happen? What must, what must go away so that this new year is. Becomes true? Seeing known celebrate and challenge. Okay, and let's say you put that on paper. Forget her little threats. If you think those threats are, they're just, they're toothless tigers. Then at some point you have to be the adult and say, all right.

[Co-host 2]

Whatever, I'm gonna keep going.

[John]

Because y' all are in this weird dance where she loses power and so she pokes and you over, like overcorrect, she's gonna leave and you shut down for a month and she gets back on top and then, then you slowly.

[Co-host 2]

Start becoming a great husband again and you're back engaged with the kids and.

[John]

Then she feels like she's losing it. So she's like, well, I don't know.

[Devin]

Yeah, it's. I, I feel like she's, I think she looked into like, I don't, I don't think that she necessarily looked into like divorce or anything, but I think she's like envisioned that and she realized how hard it is. So now she's, she's not planning actively leaving. But my concern is that the next time, you know, three months from now, and she's like, hey, let's do whatever. And I go, we can't do that. Then it's not getting what you want. She's not getting fed. That then it's going to be another fight and then this will come up at some point. But to your point about, if I may, the kind of like the retreat you laid out, I kind of did that in a sense. Not as well as you did obviously, because you do this for a living. But like during the period, the past month of us being in this weird dance was our wedding anniversary. So I kind of, I got us like a room at a hotel with a restaurant. Just kind of like have almost like a start over type retreat thing kind of with this, with what you just kind of laid out in a framework in mind, but not as well. And she first, she declined. She said we shouldn't go away together. It's not a good idea. And I said, why? And she's like, well, because we have all these problems. I was like, I just kind of walked. I was like, okay, whatever you want to do, but I don't have to cancel the reservation until, you know, X day. So then she waits until that day. And she goes, all right, we can do it. We can go. We have to talk about things. And I said, okay. And then we went and we did it. We didn't talk about things. I didn't bring it up to be fair, but I was kind of waiting, like, where are you going with this? So we just had, like, a decent evening, but I was like, why didn't we do this? What's. What's going on? Like, are you not want to talk about. Are you over. I keep trying to read tea leaves, which are stupid.

[Co-host 2]

Go right through.

[John]

Because here's the thing. If she's going to leave you, she's.

[Co-host 2]

Going to leave you.

[Devin]

I totally agree.

[John]

I think she's already left you. She's just left you in your own house. She's left you physically, she's left you emotionally. She's left you spiritually. She's left you. She's moved out. She just did the math. She probably sat with somebody and they did math.

[Co-host 2]

And she's like, oh, I'd have to go to work.

[Devin]

Well, and so if I could just expand on that for a second, not to. Not that I'm degraded about anything, but, like, I do roughly 9 out of 10 things in the house. So, like, meals, cleaning, cooking. I do so much. So I feel like she probably thought, oh, my life would be much more difficult. Might as well just live here and have him do everything. But I feel like if I stand up and, like, pull back a little bit, doing. Because I'm also overwhelmed with the amount of stuff I'm doing because it's completely unbalanced, then she. I always feel like she's going to leave. So I just. Everything is kind of through the lens of, like, if I stop doing this, one nice thing I do is she going to leave? And I have to get, like, regain my personal agency and take power back in my life. But I'm just. I don't know. I'm so, like, terrified now. After years of dealing with this and this very acute, like, recent situation, I just don't even know how to start, except saying, like, hey, one of those reasons. That conversation from a few months ago, what are you doing? Are you leaving? And then I feel like it won't be resolved because she'll just kind of be like, oh, well, you know, maybe I will. I don't know.

[John]

Okay, so let's flip the whole thing around then. Okay, we're going to go on a retreat, and we're going to talk about 2025, and that's when you lay out in 2025, I am you, Devin. I'm committed to being. Well, to being the best father and the best husband I can be. And that means I have to be honest about my time.

[Co-host 2]

I have to be honest about my work.

[John]

I have to be honest about my commitment here at home, domestically, like with. With chores and stuff like that, and how I am seeking to be the.

[Co-host 2]

Best person I can be. Exercise, sleep, and all that.

[John]

So beginning January 3rd or January 1st.

[Co-host 2]

Or whenever, I'm no longer doing X, Y and Z.

[John]

I'm gonna do dinner. I'm going to do my laundry. I'll do the kids laundry. I will make the bed in the morning. I'll mow the lawn.

[Co-host 2]

I'm going to ask you to be.

[John]

Responsible for after dinner cleanup. We can figure out who's going to go to the grocery store. We can figure that out or you start nailing these things down. But if you do it as punishment.

[Devin]

Then you become her, correct? That's my problem. Yeah.

[John]

We're not doing it for punishment. We're doing it so you can be whole.

[Co-host 2]

Finally. You've never been whole in this relationship.

[John]

And so you have to hear me say, you're worth being whole. And here's the thing.

[Co-host 2]

My buddy Henry Cloud, like the, like the goat psychologist, Right.

[John]

Who wrote the book Boundaries, he has a great story about a talking with a father about his son who's just.

[Co-host 2]

Living this crazy life.

[John]

And he says, I don't know what to do. I give my son everything. I give my son everything. Give my son everything. And Dr. Cloud has this great response. He said, it sounds like your son.

[Co-host 2]

Needs to get some problems.

[Devin]

Yeah.

[John]

And so your wife doesn't have to.

[Co-host 2]

Do anything.

[John]

And you continue to cash out every bit of agency you have because this isn't a whole relationship. She's not a person of fidelity. And so what you have to say is, okay, this year I'm not going to punish you. I'm not going to. I'm not making dinner anymore. No more laundry. No. When I look at my calendar, I.

[Co-host 2]

Will exercise for an hour a day.

[John]

I will take my kids to breakfast.

[Co-host 2]

And then get them to school twice a week. I will work.

[John]

And I'm also going to get that graduate degree I've been thinking about. And so here's what that's going to.

[Co-host 2]

Cost, and here's what time that's going to take.

[John]

So here's going to be the jobs left undone that as the co creator of this household, is going to be your responsibility.

[Co-host 2]

Are you in?

[John]

And by the way, now that we're here, what are the things you need.

[Co-host 2]

To be whole this year? And how can I help fill, like, scaffold those things?

[John]

How can I walk alongside you? How can I love you better? And what you're going to get is somebody feeling in real time. This isn't just a power play anymore. This isn't just sitting on the couch lobbing grenades.

[Co-host 2]

I might.

[John]

I may not be here tomorrow.

[Co-host 2]

It's not that.

[John]

This is like, oh, hours, time, commitment, participation, accountability.

[Co-host 2]

The stuff marriage is made of.

[John]

And here's the thing. You got to hear me say this. She's already left you. And so your plans aren't working. Your attempts to. To take hold and to get her to not leave, they're not working. She's already left. She just still lives at the house.

[Co-host 2]

And you pay for everything.

[John]

The goal here is to say you deserve to be married to a man that is whole who can show up and protect and provide and do all these things and be totally connected to you.

[Co-host 2]

Here's what I'm going to need to do that.

[John]

And I deserve to be married to.

[Co-host 2]

Somebody who's whole, who wants all in on this thing. What do you need?

[John]

I'll do everything I can in my.

[Co-host 2]

Power to make that true.

[John]

My guess is that it's just going to like. It's kind of like you have a really dirty windshield and you're flying down the highway at 95 miles an hour and you're. And you're afraid you're about to go off a cliff, and you're scared if you clean off this windshield, it's going to show you that you're going off a cliff. It might, but the reality is you.

[Co-host 2]

Don'T know where you're going because the windshield's so dirty.

[John]

So we're going to get in a room and we're going to clear off the windshield. And maybe you're finding that you've already driven off the cliff and your car is just spinning its wheels as it's.

[Co-host 2]

Careening towards the ground.

[John]

Or you might find out that there's hundreds of miles of empty road ahead.

[Co-host 2]

Of you, that you can keep driving together.

[John]

But she has no incentive to change.

[Co-host 2]

Her life because she likes her life as it is, because she does nothing.

[John]

She just pulls you around on a leash and she's always got this atom bomb in her pocket, which is, well.

[Co-host 2]

Maybe I just won't be here tomorrow.

[John]

And for you, it's all right. That's not going to hold power over me anymore. I'm going to go do the next.

[Co-host 2]

Right thing so that I can be whole.

[John]

And that's the only path you'll have towards hope, towards building something new. Is saying, here's the role I'm going.

[Co-host 2]

To play in building.

[John]

Here's the role I am asking you.

[Co-host 2]

To build, to, to. To take on in our building. Are you in?

[John]

And, dude, call me after this meeting. Call me after it, because this is going to be a truth telling, a clearing, and maybe there's some ground rules. No leaving, no grenade throwing, no bombs, no what? We're just going to lay this thing out here. I need both of us to be adults in this thing.

[Co-host 2]

Been a tough, tough year and I've been chasing you forever. I'm gonna stop chasing. We're gonna anchor it.

[John]

Thanks for the call, brother.

[Co-host 2]

We'll be right back.

[John]

All right. This time of year, we are giving away our time, our money, our sleep. And sometimes, without meaning to, we're giving away things way more personal.

[Co-host 2]

Our data.

[John]

And that's why I recommend Delete me. Listen, I like a good deal as much as the next guy, but I want you to remember, and I got to remind myself, every email, click, every newsletter I sign up for, I'm handing a piece of my personal life. You're handing a piece of your personal life to someone else. And that information doesn't just stay with them. Shady data brokers grab it, bundle it, and sell it. Your name, your phone number, your address, all of that is floating out there in the digital wilderness and people are gathering it up and selling it. That's how you end up with all these spam calls and weird texts that make you feel like someone's watching over your shoulder and absorbing your digital life. If you want to take back your privacy and your peace, you need Delete me. Delete Me is like a digital cleaning crew. They find your information on these data broker sites and they get it removed and they keep it gone. Peace doesn't just come from turning off notifications. It comes from knowing that your data isn't for sale unless you say so. Right now. You can get 20% off your annual plan when you go to joindeleteme.com deloney go protect you and your family this year. That's join J o I n joinedeleteme.com DeLoney all right, that was the greatest hits of 2025. And when I say greatest hits, the episodes that caused the most drama in the comment sections. And tomorrow is New Year New me. I hope it's New Year New. You make some great goals. Identify who you want to be this year and then backfill that with some easy low hanging fruit. Some action steps you can take to become the person, the husband, the wife, the parent, the friend, the neighbor, the church member, whatever that you want to be this year. I love you guys and I can't wait for 2026 to hit.

[Co-host 2]

We'll see you soon.