How Do I Tell My Kids He’s Not Their Father?

Summary

Episode Summary: "How Do I Tell My Kids He’s Not Their Father?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dr. John Delony Show
• Host/Author: Ramsey Network
• Description: A caller-driven show offering real talk on relationships and mental health challenges.
• Episode: How Do I Tell My Kids He’s Not Their Father?
• Release Date: March 17, 2025

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Introduction and Host’s Reflections

Dr. John Deloney begins the episode by sharing his personal struggles, emphasizing the show's commitment to supporting listeners through real-life challenges. He states, “I’m a dad trying to do the next right thing… it’s hard, man. It’s messy out there” (00:15). This heartfelt introduction sets the tone for an episode focused on honesty and vulnerability in familial relationships.

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Caller 1: Amy from Orlando, Florida

Topic: Communicating with her children about their non-biological father.

Amy’s Dilemma: Amy seeks advice on how to inform her 11 and 13-year-old children that they were conceived using donor sperm and that their current father is not their biological parent (03:04).

Dr. John’s Guidance: Dr. John emphasizes the importance of honesty, noting, “They 100% will find out” (04:24). He advises approaching the conversation with clarity and love, suggesting Amy and her husband reassure their children that their current father chose them and will always be their dad. He recommends using age-appropriate language to demystify the biological aspects without causing shame or confusion.

Notable Advice:

• Double Down on Commitment: “He chose you” (09:00).
• Create an Open Dialogue: Encourage ongoing conversations about family structures and biological connections.
• Prevent Secrecy: Addressing the truth directly prevents feelings of betrayal and mistrust later on.

Conclusion: Dr. John commends Amy and her husband for their proactive approach, highlighting the long-term benefits of transparency in fostering trust and emotional security within the family.

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Caller 2: Ellen and Drew from Milwaukee

Topic: Coping with Drew’s abusive father and its impact on their marriage and family.

Ellen’s Struggle: Ellen shares her frustration and obsession with her father-in-law’s abusive behavior towards Drew and their extended family. She feels compelled to hold him accountable, leading to strained relationships and personal distress (20:39).

Drew’s Background: Drew recounts a strict and abusive upbringing, detailing physical and verbal abuse from his father. He emphasizes the positive changes he has made, breaking the cycle of abuse in his own parenting (22:31).

Dr. John’s Intervention: Dr. John recognizes the generational trauma and the difficulty of breaking free from ingrained patterns. He urges Drew to affirm his commitment to not repeating his father's behavior, saying, “I stopped it with me” (26:20). For Ellen, he advises setting boundaries by distancing themselves from environments that perpetuate the abusive influence, such as changing churches or limiting interactions with problematic family members.

Key Recommendations:

• Mutual Support: “You and Ellen are standing in front of a mirror… 'I stopped it with me'” (26:20).
• Set Boundaries: Distance from toxic influences to create a peaceful home environment.
• Focus on the Present: Emphasize the safety and love within their own family unit over past grievances.

Impact on Family: Dr. John highlights the importance of healing for both Ellen and Drew, stressing that unresolved anger and obsession with the past can jeopardize their current family harmony and emotional well-being.

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Caller 3: Diana from Bozeman, Montana

Topic: Managing the contrasting household dynamics caused by her husband’s intense presence when he’s home versus the calm when he’s away.

Diana’s Challenge: Diana describes the stark difference in household energy when her husband is frequently traveling versus when he is present. His intense and chaotic behavior upon returning home leaves her feeling overwhelmed and struggling to maintain balance (41:31).

Husband’s Background: Diana explains that her husband recently endured significant trauma, witnessing his mother’s critical health condition, which has led him to cope by staying excessively busy. This busyness acts as a “drug” to mask his unresolved grief and trauma (43:54).

Dr. John’s Strategy: Dr. John advises Diana to address the emotional disconnect by fostering open communication and seeking professional support together. He suggests framing the need for therapy as a mutual effort to strengthen their relationship, stating, “We are living together. I'm your wife and I miss my husband” (50:22).

Critical Steps:

• Unified Front: Establish a shared vision for a harmonious home environment.
• Professional Help: Encourage joint counseling to navigate trauma and its effects on their relationship.
• Emotional Honesty: Express genuine feelings of missing and needing each other to bridge emotional gaps.

Empathetic Support: Dr. John emphasizes the necessity of active empathy, stating, “Empathy is active… Thanks for loving him” (47:14). He underscores the transformative power of mutual effort and understanding in healing and restoring household peace.

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Listener Feedback: Kelly’s Transformation

Anonymous Listener’s Story: Kelly shares a deeply personal account of transformation after engaging with the show's content. From a relationship filled with yelling, alcohol abuse, and poor communication, Kelly and her husband have made significant strides towards healthier interactions, including regular counseling, forgiving past mistakes, and rebuilding intimacy (55:53).

Dr. John’s Acknowledgment: Dr. John celebrates Kelly’s progress, stating, “You and your wife are doing the work and that's awesome” (57:48). He highlights the ripple effect of such positive changes on future generations, reinforcing the value of persistence in personal growth and relationship healing.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Dr. John Deloney addresses complex family dynamics with empathy and practical advice. From navigating the sensitive topic of non-biological parenthood to breaking the cycles of generational abuse and managing marital strains caused by trauma and busyness, the episode provides listeners with actionable strategies to foster honesty, set healthy boundaries, and seek professional support. The heartfelt stories and transformations shared underscore the podcast’s commitment to real, impactful conversations on relationships and mental health.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the original podcast transcript to aid listeners in referencing key segments.

Transcript

[Amy]

How do I tell my kids that they were conceived with fertility treatments using donor sperm and that their dad is not their biological father?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ah. I'm gonna sit with your 21 year old one day and they're gonna say if they lied about this, then they probably lied about everything else. What in the world's going on? This is John with a Dr. Jon Baloney show. Hope you're doing well. It's been a rough week, if I'm being honest with you. There's lots going on. Personal life, friends and family. And just, just know this show is about real people going through real stuff. And I'm not immune to it either. And so just know that I'm in it with you. And I'm a dad trying to do the next right thing. I'm a husband trying to figure out how to do that well. And I'm a son and a brother and a sister and a grandkid, and I'm just trying to do that stuff right. And it's hard, man. It's messy out there. And I think that's the origin of this show is always dreaming that I had someone I could sit with. And sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't. And that's my commitment to you guys. I'll be here. I know a lot of you are struggling with stuff and there's nobody to call. And that's what this show is about. Your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your friends going through hard stuff, family stuff, whatever you got going on. That's my promise. Give me a buzz. 184-4-693-3291. If you're a thousand years old, that calls toll free. If you don't know what the words toll free mean, that means you're probably born this century. Or go to john deloney.com/a S K. Kelly, do you remember when we used to have to have a long distance card to call anybody that wasn't in our area code?

[Kelly]

Oh, my gosh. I had not thought of that in forever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I. Yeah, like when I went to college my freshman year, I had a calling card memorized. Just a number memorized so I could punch in 16 digits to then call.

[Kelly]

My mom got me a calling card so I could call home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So, you youngsters listen, if the, if the number had a different area code, you had to pay by the minute to talk to them, which meant they had to be a smoke show, right? Or in Kelly's case, they had to maybe be a potential makeout partner. Otherwise that call is not happening. Does that mean I was talking to myself, and I just saw you.

[Kelly]

Or if you. Once cell phones came out, you only talked to them after nine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

After nine, because it was free. But every text message, you pay text by the minute. Like, you'd be like, I'm out of text for the month.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's bananas.

[Kelly]

I remember that. You text and you look up and see how many, like, dang it, I got like, 10 days left and no text.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Jeez, man. Now you can just chat. GPT, architectural drawings or. So I don't know what's happening in the world, but. Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad y'all are with us. Let's go out to Orlando, Florida, and talk to Amy. What's up, Amy?

[Amy]

Hi, Dr. John.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How's it going?

[Amy]

Good. It's awesome to talk to you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You too. What's happening?

[Amy]

Well, my question is, how do I tell my kids that they were conceived with fertility treatments using donor sperm and that their dad is not their biological father?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ah. How old are they? 11 and 13. Who's having the biggest trouble with this conversation? You or your. Are you married?

[Amy]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so do they know their. Their dad? The guy who's raised him? Do they know him for their whole life?

[Amy]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Amy]

He's on the birth certificate. He's their father since birth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent. Okay, so who's having the biggest problem with it?

[Amy]

I don't think either one of us are having a problem with it. It's just. We just don't know how to approach this subject. You know, it's not a question of if we should tell them. We want to. We want them to hear it from us, not find out by chance someday. Doing a DNA test.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. And those are becoming ubiquitous. They. Yeah, your instincts are right. They 100% will find out.

[Amy]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Amy]

And back when we were going through this, it wasn't really. I mean, we thought about that future, but it was more that we just deeply wanted the kids and we were going to make our family this way. Um, but now we know for sure they are going to find out someday, and we want them to hear it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

From us, which is so noble. And I'm glad, y'all. I'm glad that's your disposition. Do you have. You'll have biological kids by any chance?

[Amy]

My husband has two from a former marriage, and I have one as well from a previous relationship.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, this is going to sound strange, but I think that might help facilitate the conversation. Your kids have a picture in their head of different kinds of families.

[Amy]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And different ways people take on the name dad or take on the, on the name mom. And different people coming in and out of their life with different levels of influence, right?

[Ellen]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I, how old are they again? Say that again.

[Amy]

11 and 13.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I, this is super unhelpful. So I'm saying this to the people listening. I probably would have had that conversation began, began it earlier, but we're here and so I think, I think as soon as y'all are ready, I think the, the distincting, the distinction line, the, the sentiment I want you all to land on is anybody can father a child, their dad stepped up and decided he chose them. And that is the, that's the double down, triple down, quadruple down. I always want to go back to. I chose y'all. And if they ask questions, you can talk about how I, I mean you can get with a 13 year old and an 11 year old, you can get pretty graphic, right? Have you all talked about sex? Do they know about that? It's not weird or anything, is it?

[Amy]

No. The older one, he's beginning puberty. So we've had that talk.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I would recommend strongly that that not be a talk. That, that just be discourse in your house. And your 11 year old is probably a hundred miles down the road from where y'all think he is. From what he knows. Is it he or she? I just assume that he, that yeah, he, he probably has a, an idea that from the bus or from his older brother on how Stu. And so I, here's how I would have the conversation. I would say I have to talk to you about some big news and that we have a special family. And you all know that because dad, dad had kids, you know, their step, step brothers and sisters with this other person, I had a kid with this other person. And when we got together, we decided to make a family in another way. And here's how, here's how this works and you can talk about know. You all know how sex works. The penis goes in the vagina and the sperm that meets the egg and we make a kid. Some awesome medical researchers have figured out how to do that outside. And so what, why didn't, why didn't their dad, why didn't he participate? He had got a vasectomy.

[Amy]

He had had a vasectomy and then we had planned to reverse it, which we tried, but it was unsuccessful.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I'm going to be honest. I would have that conversation with an 11 and 13 year old.

[Amy]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't think that's too much. It might be too much. If y'all have, if, if sex is in your house is something that you'll never, ever, ever talk about, it would be too much at one time, probably. But if there is a discourse of, we're, we're an open family, we're funny, we, we laugh, we joke, we poke fun, this and that, and then here we go, here's this, that's a different. Y'all have a different context already. So if you don't have that, you're gonna have to build some context.

[Amy]

We definitely have a good relationship as far as we can speak freely about things. We are conservative Christians. So I think there's some of that, that some of the sex talk isn't open every day. Sure, they're pretty sheltered in what they watch. And not that I'm not, you know, I know that they've seen things or heard things, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what I would tell, what I would tell you is the idea that you're a conservative Christian amplifies the need that they get open and direct and they understand their bodies are awesome and that sex is amazing. Like, does that make sense?

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because if you're not a conservative Christian, if you don't subscribe to that value system, you're getting from the outside world how amazing sex is. And oh my gosh, check this out. Whatever. Because what I've done for the last 20 years is dealing the aftermath of kids who get to college, kids who graduate, college kids who try to start their lives and nobody ever had any conversation with them and they find themselves in nightmare scenarios. And so I would say if you subscribe to, if your value system is anchored in conservative Christianness, your house needs to be the most sex positive place on planet Earth where they hear about it, they talk about it, they know mom and dad are doing it, they know mom and dad love it. And also, it's bounded by a context. Right. There's a time and a place. And so that's, that's neither here nor there. That's a whole other, that's a whole other call, whole other conversation. Right. But I would, I would sit down and have that conversation. And they are going to take their cues from you. If you are awkward and you're scared and nervous, they will understand that what they're being told beyond beneath the words of what they're being told is somehow something they should be ashamed, nervous, frustrated, scared about. If y'all fully sit down and own this as two adults who made an adult decision because you wanted so badly, them too, in their life, in your life, they will have their world shifted, right? They're not going to understand biology versus whatever. So I have another dad. No, no, I will always be your dad. Always. But yes, an anonymous person contributed the sperm part. So biology wise, you, you have an anonymous father and that's a choice we made. But this is your dad. Is, has been your dad, will always be your dad. And he chose y'all. That's. You got to keep doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on that line. He chose you.

[Amy]

Okay. Are you familiar with any data on kids or families like mine? Like from a child development, child development perspective and all that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like. No, I, I don't have any data in front of me. The only, the only data I would, I would call it anecdote, which is just my lived experience is sitting with 19 and 20 year olds who, who just find out, right? And what it does, I just don't.

[Amy]

Want to mess them up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, what's going to mess them up is feeling like there's something wrong or secretive about their existence.

[Amy]

Okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And y'all, you and your husband are gonna have to make peace with the fact that a. For medical purposes, they're probably gonna want to know, right? Because they're gonna have to fill out questionnaires. Do you have any cancer in your background, in your family history, or you, do you have any liver issues in your family history? And they're going to want to know, right? And they need to know that stuff. And with, with the, if they can't already, they will be able to contact their original father at some point. I mean their bio father just technology surpassed us all. So you're, you can read those stories that pop up where somebody's got a thousand bio kids across the world, right? That's, that's the world you've inhabited. And so my fear for you is you're going to try to, you're going to try to manage the info in a way that you withhold things. Please don't do that because here's what happens. I'm going to sit with their, with your 21 year old one day and they're going to say if they lied about this, then they've probably lied about everything else. And so I'd rather them deal with uncomfortable information from an anchored in honest, direct, loving, caring par. A regulated adult. Not somebody who did something and they're nervous about it or scared about it or whatever. But yeah, here's what we did. We went, got a sperm donor because we wanted you guys. And dad had had a surgery. They're 11 and 13, right, we're gonna go, we're gonna talk their language so they feel safe. And, and it's like it was, but we tried and didn't work. So there's this amazing new technology that allows somebody who, who has dedicated their life to helping couples have kids that aren't able to have kids. And we don't even know who the name is, but it's not something you're going to shine be like. And we, we're so sorry. We're not gonna do any of that kind of stuff because I don't want them walking away from this with their entire world upside down and them thinking somehow their existence is bathed in shame. You all made a choice. Is what it is, what it is. Does that make sense?

[Amy]

Yeah, that's great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you. I recognize my family's different. I'm just thinking of a conversation we had last night about the planets. And you can imagine I was making jokes about Uranus. And just like, again, my family's different. I understand that it's probably too far the other way. But if there's parts of the conversation that you, your husband says, hey, I need to talk to the boys for a second and we're going to invite you back in. And he talks about that in a way in, in their language. Do you get what I'm saying? And I do believe in calling body parts the right words. And I do believe in never, ever, ever, ever, ever shaming a kid for body parts and making sure everybody knows we all got the parts. And it's all good. But there's also a part about, in the nerd world, we call it rapport building. I'll often speak a language, right? So if I'm meeting with somebody and they're swearing a lot, I'm going to meet them where they're at. I'm not going to violate my own values, of course, but I want to meet them where they're at. And this is a way to talk to an 11 and 13 year old that lets them know, oh, our dad gets us right. And it may be in your house. Mom doesn't need to be a part of that part of the conversation, but they do need to be. You all do need to be united. We decided we wanted you two in our lives so bad. And there's a guy out there who dedicated his life to helping couples find or have amazing kids like you two. And it's just going to be presented as fact. And if you ever have any question, anytime, always. And then it's really important to put on a calendar. About two weeks later, one of y'all take one kid out and the other take the other kid out and y'all go out and just talk about, hey, like that was a big conversation we had the other day. What do you think? What have you been thinking about? You. Would you think you ever one day want to meet that person? I don't know if I don't. We don't know who he is. But you ever want to meet him, you let me know. I would love to help. Help that. Does it feel weird? And you might get one kid that is devastated. You might get one kid that's like, my whole life's upside down. You might get another kid that's like, yeah, okay. In their world, there's all kinds of families. There's like Yalls family, which is a blended family. There's families of divorce, there's gay and lesbian families. There are. There's just families that look all kind of different worlds in. In their world, in their schools and their friends. And this is just a, A unique family. And once again, I keep saying this over and over. We chose you. I think that's where you go to every parent out there, right? Beneath my disdain for people who don't have wills is people who don't are not honest with their children about big life stuff. Like this situation. We had a sperm donor or we had this situation, or you had an infant brother who died two days after he was born. And we were. We've been sad for a long time about it. And here was their name. You have to have those conversations with your kids because they will come out and it unspools every bit of your relationship. Because every kid who's now a young adult asked the question, if they lied about that, what else are they lying about? Now, they don't need to know details about your sexual escapades of your past. They don't need to know details about blah, blah. But if it concerns them, they gotta know. They gotta know. And it's got to be age appropriate, right? So thank you so, so much for that call, Amy. Kind of like you mentioned at the beginning, not everybody's going to have this particular situation. In fact, few people will. Although more and more and more are dealing with this. But every parent has conversations that they need to have with their kids. Every parent does. And I'm just telling you, I've sat down too many 18, 19, 20, 21 year olds, 25 year olds whose whole lives are in ash because mom and dad kept big, big big secrets. Thank you for being the parents who want to tell the truth. We'll be right back. Good folks. The modern world exposes us to things that were just unheard of until a few decades ago. And I don't mean lame AI influencers or tons and tons and tons of mindless videos. I'm talking about screens in our homes and offices, fluorescent light EMFs, these things that can affect our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and more. And that's why I'm so excited to partner with Bonus Charge, a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use Bond Charge products all of the time. I literally use them every single day. And I love them. And here's why I think you'll love them too. Studies show red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress, and help with sleep. 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And that means you're covered all through lint and beyond. Go check out [e-mail] DeLoney that's H-A L L O W.com DeLoney for three months for free. All right, let's. We got a husband and wife calling in. Let's go out first to Ellen in Milwaukee. Hey, Ellen, what's up?

[Ellen]

Hi. How are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm outstanding. All right, hang on the line here. I'm gonna click over to Drew. We ready, Joe? All right. Hey, Drew. What's up, brother?

[Drew]

Hey, how you doing?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent, my man. Excellent, Excellent. All right, so what's going on? Whoever wants to go first, go first.

[Ellen]

I guess I'll start. I was the one who initially called in, so my Drew.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you in trouble, Drew?

[Drew]

No, not at all.

[Ellen]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, so what's up?

[Ellen]

So my question, my broad question is how do I kind of let go and stop obsessing over my father in law's abuse to my husband and my husband's siblings and just why I feel the need? Like, I've. I've taken on this role of, like, the person who needs to, like, make him pay or like, you know, that calls him to the carpet and it's. I'm. I'm obsessing about it. Like, it's. I've basically broken every relationship with his siblings. He and I have had issues over it, and I just. I don't know how to get past his bad behavior because I feel like he's never had to, like, be called out for it. Like, he's just got to live his life normally while I've just over the years learned about all these, like, awful things he's done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're talking about. You're talking about Drew's dad.

[Ellen]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, Drew, tell me. Tell me about your experience growing up, man.

[Drew]

I come from immigrant family, so my dad got here in the 70s. Really strict, kind of Roman Catholic family. And then hard work, he had us jumping in and out of recycling dumpsters. Me at the age of six. You know, my brothers and I would do this for a few hours. It seemed like almost every day. And whenever it came to side jobs and stuff, he's just. He could be very, like, verbally abusive times that I wasn't like the greatest son or, like, if I Would have hurt some. Someone or just done something really stupid. There were a lot of physical consequences.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He beat the crap out of you.

[Drew]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so. So, Drew, can I tell you.

[Drew]

Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You keep going. Sorry, man. Keep going.

[Drew]

I guess over the years I've seen like, maybe some type of improvement. But my. What I remember as a kid a lot and still now is the way he treats my mom. Not saying it's every day, but I mean, my mom in the last four years I can remember, like, had to sleep at my brother's house for a couple nights because, I don't know, my mom doesn't really like, talk back to him or anything. She just kind of takes it or she'll get so upset, she'll like. I've seen her do this. Let's finish a bottle of tequila until she like, passes out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, yeah, Tequila works, man. Okay, so before I move on, how old are you, Drew?

[Drew]

I'm 37.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You got kids of your own?

[Drew]

We. We have five.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Did this stop with you?

[Drew]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tell me what kind of dad you are, brother.

[Drew]

I like to think I'm a good dad.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. What kind of dad are you?

[Drew]

Hard working dad.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have your kids crawling in out of dumpsters?

[Drew]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you beat up your kids?

[Drew]

Never.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you take out your anger and rage on Ellen?

[Drew]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So this stopped with you?

[Drew]

Yeah, I mean, I. We've had this talk too. When? Probably like about. Probably about a month ago. Like a meeting between my wife, my brother, my mom and my dad. And I think that was like, probably the number thing. The number one thing that was highlighted is just like, I'm just not. Not like him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hold on, hold on. Just exhale on that for a second, man. I don't think you are grasping what a humongous deal that is. Because a father's sins. And I'm not talking about like in the Jesus drank a beer, said a bad word kind of way. The pain and anguish and rage that a father commits to his sons is carried generationally because sons find themselves frustrated with their sons, scared to death about economic situations or in your dad's situation, thrown into a completely new culture on the other side of the world, terrified about people going to eat. And the most common path is that those guys have sons and daughters. But I'm just talking about sons here. And they go on. And you get stuck in a system and you get frustrated with your wife, you get frustrated with your young kids, you get frustrated with Your boss. And in some modernized version, you just recreate the cycle, and you have stopped it. That's a huge deal. And so if you haven't. If you haven't stopped and with Ellen by your side, stood in front of a mirror in your bathroom, put your fist in your bare chest with no shirt on, and just said, hell, yeah, I stopped it. This crap stopped with me. I want you to do that tonight. Fair?

[Drew]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. What you've done is huge.

[Drew]

I also like to. Yeah. I really wouldn't have been able to do it without my wife.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. Any good man I know stands on the shoulders of an amazing wife. I mean, that's just my life. That's my life, too. Okay. But I want to call it out for you. All right, so I'm back to Ellen for a second. Ellen.

[Ellen]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tell me about your childhood, your mom and dad.

[Ellen]

I had a great childhood.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Ellen]

I. You know, two parent households, still very involved. They live next door to us, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, God help you, Drew. It's like. It's like the Romanos.

[Ellen]

It is in a lot of ways. Yeah. So, yeah. I think that's why, like, learning all of this is even more frustrating. Like, I got glimpses of it. He and I met in third grade, so we've known each other forever and ever. And so I've known his family forever and ever. And I knew his parents were, like, stricter as we were dating in high school. But, like, it kind of all came to a head a couple of years ago with a text that really just, like, triggered my husband. And then I started.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What was the text hearing?

[Ellen]

It was silly. We were at a Packer game, and his dad is a Dallas fan because he grew up in Mexico, and that's what they had.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Ellen]

For NFL. And he was just. He was just kind of being, like, nasty. Like, oh, you have your sons at this game. The packers stink. Like, it was silly, but it just really.

[Diana]

It.

[Ellen]

It got to Drew badly, and then he just kind of exploded over text. And then since then, I've just been getting more and more stories of just experiences he's had, and it's just made.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where did your sense of justice and protection come from? Is your dad, like, a civil rights attorney or something? Or your mom? Like, he is a lawyer. Yeah.

[Ellen]

Okay, so he's a defense attorney.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. There you go. Okay. That's all I need to know. That's all I need to know.

[Ellen]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's all. You nailed it.

[Ellen]

Yeah. I think it's also because I knew him at like 10. So like when he tells me a story about like, yeah, I couldn't sit down in fifth grade because I was, you know, beaten on the back of my leg so bad, I'm like, I was like sitting next to you and like, didn't know that. Like, I wish I could have, I don't know what 10 year old me would have done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But so, so let me say this. So my, my, my dad was a homicide detective, so he wasn't a defense attorney. But I grew up with very much a sense what you see in the headlines is there's a person behind that and we're going to dedicate our lives to keeping people safe. We're going to dedicate our lives to telling the truth. And I remember as a young kid, I didn't have the words like you mentioned, like, what am I actually going to do? But I remember when somebody got hurt, I would feel it. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like, like your stomach gets all warm or your legs get real heavy.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you feel it. And I think that's a testament to how you were raised. And on the other side of it is that's a testament to how your nervous system works, how you're wired. But you have a deep and profound sense of justice and you love this man and you've seen the extraordinary challenges and changes he's made. And both of you have a sense, I'm guessing after having your own five kids, it's unconscionable, Right. You look at your own kids, you're like, how is this possible? Yeah, like I knew intellectually, like, you shouldn't leave your kids. I, I, I couldn't wrap my head around deciding to not be around my daughter or my son. Like, I couldn't even conceptualize that my, my, my heart doesn't beat right when I'm gone. Right. All that to say is I want you to hear. And see, I'm going to say this with all due respect. Your husband needs to love him and walk alongside him and not go out and go to war for him. And you punishing an old immigrant, exhausted man will not make his childhood okay. It will continue to cause tension and chaos in your existing lives, and you'll have plenty of that. You have five kids.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You don't need it.

[Ellen]

No, we don't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so, Ellen, I mean, that's why I called. Well, at some point you have to decide to stop reading the headlines because it's not helping you what I'm saying. Like, what else are you gonna do, right? You Go hit him. Like, where does it end for you? Because you have these imaginary conversations, like, if it just was me and him, I would let him. And I'm gonna tell you right now, it won't go like you think it would go. It won't feel like you think it's gonna feel. And it will solve no things. The greatest middle finger happened. Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. So. And then you're at the end of your rope. You don't know what else you don't have. Another play in the. In the play pool. The greatest middle finger to that type of childhood is raising your kids in a safe, tethered, peaceful household.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that doesn't feel like justice, but it's transformative. Drew, what's it like seeing your wife get fired up and just want to go to war against a. An opponent she can't defeat?

[Drew]

Sometimes I. Out of me going through. I mean, like, what I went through and what she just. I don't know me. I'm not saying I've. I've coped and I've, like, let this go, but, I mean, that's. I don't know. Sometimes I. I just want to tell her to, like, to let it go. But then I also. I begin to feel, like, enraged myself.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Drew]

Because then I started. I start to think about my mom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Drew]

And, like, remembering, like, the nights of her, like, crying, like. And so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And is there anything more heartbreaking? And is there any more. Any deep. Any more deep feeling of powerlessness when you're adult parents, when you have the ability financially, psychologically, emotionally to help them, and they look at you and say, I don't want your help. Like, it makes you feel small and powerless, right?

[Drew]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. It's the worst. And, Ellen, you know Drew won the lottery when he married you, right? Say it one more time.

[Ellen]

I think so. Sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You think so?

[Ellen]

I know so. I'm not trying to. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So here's what. Here's what I want you guys to commit to. We all go out this weekend for a breakfast together, and I want y'all to answer this one question. I ask it all the time, but I want you all to be serious. What do you want the house to feel like when Drew walks in every day? And what do you want the house to feel like, Ellen, when you walk in every day, five crazy kids all over the place, Drew's running around, like, what about the house to feel like? Because here's step number one after y'all answer that question. And when me and My wife asked it, I think I've talked about on the show. Like, when we talk, I wanted it to be warm. I wanted people to be laughing in the house. I want people to be happy I was home. And to get whatever feelings you'll want in your home. Y'all are going to have to consciously say, we're going to stop inviting the ghosts of my dad in this home. And every time we pick up a text message, every time we engage in a fight over the holidays, we are inviting the ghosts of my father into this home, and he's not welcome here. Or in another way I can say it is. I'm going to stop giving him power over me and my family because, Ellen, you're inviting him back in.

[Ellen]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And there will. Go ahead.

[Ellen]

Sorry. I was going to say it's. It's harder. There's an extra layer, too, just because of the type of community we live in. Like, we all belong to this same church. Like, we see them on Sundays.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, Ellen, leave.

[Ellen]

They live around the block.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Leave. Go to a different church. You're a grownup adult. You have five kids.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Go to a different church.

[Ellen]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your peace isn't worth all these other games y'all are playing. And there's going to be some grief because y'all may want to go to that church. But bigger than that, you want peace in your home. You want laughter in your house. You want Drew to come home. You want. Exhausted, about to get mauled by five bananas, bonkers kids, and you still kind of think he's a smoke show when he wears the right shirt. And y'all wanted these five kids to go to bed so that y'all can. Yeah. Like, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not gonna then go have drama on my one day off, which is Sunday.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm not going to go into a house of worship in a place where I know I can't worship because the ghosts of my father are still there, because my feelings of ineptitude, because my mom won't let me help her. I'm. I'm going to opt out because I'm the adult, and I get to do that.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I'm sure there's other places, you know, weekly meals. Well, we're going to. We're going to stop heading to. Going to the weekly meals or just Drew's going to go. And Drew, at some point, it will be your conversation, not Ellen's. When your mom says, where are you? And your brother calls you out and Tries to. Because he still feel. Your brother still feels chained to this whole thing. I'm. And I'm making this up, but I'm just guessing at some point, somebody will call you out, and that's when you consciously exhale and drop your shoulders and say, yes, for me. In my house, we're choosing peace. So I just needed to opt out. Oh, you're turning your back on your family. No, no, no, no, no. If my family wants to. Wants to bring.

[Drew]

I think we're already doing that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, well, good. Then what you guys have to do is grieve it, because it's not supposed to be this way. You're supposed to have one awesome set of grandparents on one side of the house and one awesome on the other. And y'all don't. And I'm sorry. It breaks my heart for you.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it breaks my heart for those five kids.

[Diana]

Right.

[Ellen]

That's the hardest because they wonder, like, why haven't we seen papa? Or what's going on? And it's just like, I don't. I don't really know what to say. Obviously, I wouldn't drag them into this drama, but we haven't. We haven't. The kids haven't seen him besides, like, church or, you know, we all go to the same grocery store or whatever in months. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And grandpa's struggling right now. Grandpa's not doing great.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They're on to the next. I would love to, too, son. Just doesn't work out this time. But, Ellen, I'm guessing some of your justice comes. I mean, some of your rage comes from your sense of justice that you're. You were given as a kid, and I'm so grateful you got that. And I'm guessing some of your rage comes from, like, it's you and Drew versus the world. I mean, y'all are packers fans, for God's sakes. Most of your life sucks. Right? It's y'all two versus the world. Right? And it hurts when somebody's got their hooks in your husband.

[Ellen]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it hurts him when he sees his wife just banging her head against the wall. Something he knows since he was 2 years old. He ain't gonna change.

[Ellen]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so there's this exhale where we get to decide we're gonna grieve the picture that we wanted, which is two sets of rad grandparents. We're not going to get that. And we're going to exhale and say, okay. As for me in my house, how can we get laughter and peace and joy and Warmth back in this place. And for y'all, it's going to be deciding we're not inviting these people back in. And collectively, I hate that for y'all. I hate it. And this is a message that, I mean, I don't know how many 80 year old dads, 75 year old dads listen to the show, probably zero. 72 year old moms listen to the show, probably very, very few. It is never too late to call your sons and say, I'm sorry. It's never too late to call your sons and say, I screwed up real bad. Do you forgive me? I want to do better. It's never too late to say, hey, I made up stories about you too, son. You too, daughter, and I was wrong. I'm sorry. It's never too late. Moms to say, you hit me for the last time. I'm out. At 72 years old, enough is enough is enough. I'm out. It's just never too late. Thanks for the call, Ellen and Drew. Thanks for the call. Yo, lucky you found each other tonight, y'all. Go look in the in the mirror together. Drew, put your fist in your chest and say, it stopped with me and Ellen. Give him a big hug because that's a herculean masculine task. You married a man, and that's amazing. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Listen. Right now, BetterHelp is offering the biggest discount I've ever seen. 90% off your first week now through March 31st. Listen, you've heard me say this a thousand times. You're worth being well. And I believe that therapy can help. So if you've been on the fence, this is your chance to try therapy for a fraction of the cost. 90% off your first week. Let's be honest. We all spend money on things that we hope will make us feel better, like streaming subscriptions, new clothes, gym memberships, organic groceries. Some of y'all are even essential oil people. But when it comes to actually digging in and getting real about our mental and emotional well being, we hesitate. Please hear me. Your mental and emotional health is just as important as your physical health. And I know actually going to therapy can seem like a huge first step, but it's more accessible than you think. Betterhelp makes therapy more convenient because it's online and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Your well being is Worth it. And this offer makes it easier than ever to start. Right now. BetterHelp is offering 90 off your first week of therapy now through March 31, 2025. This is the biggest discount we've ever offered on this show. 90 off your first week. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get started. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, we are back. Right when I got off the call, I remembered recording this show right before we have our Valentine's weekend money and marriage and I have. So I offered Ellen and Drew seats at that and hopefully they'll be able to see to come, come join us. And if they do, we'll do a follow up episode with them. It'd be fun to catch in with, check in on them. But let's go out to Bozeman, Montana and talk to Diana. What's up, Diana?

[Diana]

Hi, Dr. Don. How are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm phenomenal. How are you?

[Diana]

I am phenomenal also.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent, Excellent. What's up?

[Diana]

So I'll just jump into my very long winded question.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm the long winded one around here.

[Diana]

Okay. So my husband is a very, very busy man. He travels frequently and so he'll be gone for days or even weeks at a time. When he is gone, it's just me and my son at the house and we have kind of just like a peaceful rhythm. We have things planned, but nothing too busy, just kind of going with the flow. And then when he comes home, the energy is very different. He's a very like intense, passionate kind of man. And so he brings that energy into the household and it's just, it's always kind of chaotic and I'm having a hard time regulating kind of between the two environments. When he's gone, I miss him. But then when he comes home, I am kind of overstimulated. Like as soon as he tells me that he's on the flight home or driving back, it's like I can't breathe anymore. And then he gets home and I'm picking fights and I'm just having a hard time regulating between when he's gone and it's just me and my son. And then when he's home and has like this whole kind of different dynamic. Dynamic with the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're awesome. Gotta tell you. Thank you for the call.

[Diana]

Thank you for picking up our call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If I go prodding, will you promise you'll be as honest as possible?

[Diana]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Have you ever sat down and told him that you hate his job. And you miss him.

[Diana]

So I. We've talked about.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hold on. Have you ever told him that?

[Diana]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What did he say?

[Diana]

He says he's burnt out, too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Diana]

But I think I kind of forgot a big piece. So he's always kind of been like this very on the go, motivated person. But a year and a half ago, we went through some pretty extreme trauma, and I think he's still kind of living with that every day. And I think his coping mechanism has been to fill his schedule as busy as possible so that he doesn't have to sit and think about it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Busyness is a great American male drug.

[Diana]

Yes. And it is. It does feel like a drug in the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. What was the drug?

[Diana]

Very empathetic. His mom had a heart attack and she was on life support for two weeks. And so he slept with her in the hospital, had to kind of witness all of that. And then after the two weeks, had to make the decision to take her off life support.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where's his dad?

[Diana]

He is in the picture in the very slightest sense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Diana]

We wish he wasn't, but I wish he wasn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. There you go. There you go.

[Diana]

Yeah. And I. So when this all did happen, I was six months pregnant and he is the oldest brother. And so I kind. I saw him take on the energy of like, I'm the man of the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Diana]

You guys feel. I won't feel. And kind of. That has not stopped since that time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And my guess is he needs somebody who really loves him to sit down and say, you're safe now.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I miss you now.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And the most empathetic thing is not. Is rarely silence.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if it's safe, and no one's going to tell you this in a. In a how to be married blog, if there's abuse, then that's. That's a totally different conversation. But if you're safe, then what many men need in this situation is their wife to wade through that electricity and hug them anyway.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because my guess is he's running and gunning and he's high as a kite on busy and he doesn't know how to. How to stop. It's just cocaine. He can't get off. And every time he starts to dip and that the only way to keep going is to take more.

[Diana]

Yeah. There has been moments where he's had to dip either like, my son and I haven't been home or we've been doing something, and mentally it's very, very hard on him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. But because. Just because it's hard. Doesn't mean it's wrong. He's gonna have to get off this train one way or the other, and I'm afraid it's going to end poorly. He's gonna say or do something out of just sheer fatigue and exhaustion and anger. Of unprocessed anger. Because, by the way, that should not have been his call to make. That should have been his dad. His dad sucks.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it should have been all the brothers rallying around, and he's probably been taken on that role since he was a really little kid. And he probably had some conversations you want to have with mom, and he can't have them.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And the worst possible thing he can do is go through 18 months of not talking to anybody saying anything, and that's a tools issue. He doesn't have the tools in his toolkit. He didn't have a picture of what an adult male looks like when they're struggling. But he does have a wife who loves him to the moon and back.

[Diana]

Yes. Yes. Have that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And so I think the easy thing. And by the way, I'm a humongous, loud, obnoxious guy, so I've seen my wife, like, almost flinch when she wades in.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When I'm not doing well. And not flinch from. She's going to get hit. But she can feel the nuclear reactor in my chest. She can feel it.

[Diana]

Yeah. And we've been together for almost 13 years now, so I've always been used to kind of that intensity. But now it. It never comes down, which is kind of where we're struggling.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. And it's just like the last call. I just. I just. The. The couple I just talked to. And by the way, if he ever wants to call in, I'd love to talk to him. Okay. But it's you guys asking the most terrifying question I think anybody can ask, and that is. Okay. It's been 18 months since the worst of the worst, and now we're starting to wear the bomb blast inside our own house. Here's the most terrifying question you and him can ask together. What are we gonna do now? Because we can't keep doing this.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I can't have you disappearing for weeks at a time and coming in like a tornado. I can't be in my own house and have a panic attack when the most important person in my life says he's coming home.

[Diana]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so we have to decide to do something different together so that when you text me from the plane, everything in my day Gets better. Okay, but it's gonna. It's gonna be someone who loves him. It's an intervention. If you will. If you ever watch that show. This is an intervention. Yeah, but it has to start with I words. I miss you and I can't do this anymore. I'm not leaving you. I need you to know that you not being well affects all of us in this house. How can I love you? And I'm going to see a counselor because I don't know how to love you through your pain, through all this old stuff. I'm fine. I'm doing okay. You're not. I've known you too long. You're not.

[Diana]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's not you have to quit your job. It's not any of that kind of stuff. I'm busy. I think I've talked about it here on the show. I'm busier now than I was when me and my wife finally sat down, when she finally waded through and said, enough is enough is enough is enough. You're not. Okay.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I know you feel like you're harnessing the electricity, which you're not. We're all getting burned.

[Diana]

Yeah. That's kind of how it feels.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah. And then you end up feeling used, huh?

[Diana]

Yeah. I kind of just feel like I'm getting dragged behind a car sometimes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's exactly right.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And for a while, sex will calm it down. For a while. I'll do a nice thing, like with dinner, for a while. It's. I'll keep the house a certain way. For a while, it's. But then you start longing for. Why don't you just go on your trip so me and my son can get back to our life?

[Diana]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that's.

[Diana]

We've had that conversation that it feels like my son and I have one life and he has one life, and sometimes they overlap, but otherwise they're separate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that's what we're going to call right now. We're going to call it. We're going to turn the lights on, turn the music off and say, I'm not. I'm not living two lives anymore. We're living together. I'm your wife and I miss my husband.

[Diana]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so we get to decide how does this house feel when you walk in? And I want it to feel warm and full of laughter. So here's what must be true. When you come in. Here's what this has got to look like for me. And by the way, when you come in, how do you want that to look like when you're gone, how do you want us to talk? To text, to laugh, to have joy? To, like, what do you want that to look like? Because this separate life thing is killing me.

[Diana]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I think underneath it, I mean, am I right? Like, I think you just miss your husband. Right?

[Diana]

Yeah. Yeah. That's really all it is, I think.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Miss your ride or die. Yeah. And does he know that part?

[Diana]

We've talked about that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Diana]

Yeah. It kind of feels like we've had all these. Or not all of these, but a lot of these conversations. And right now he's kind of just in that, like, addiction, so to say. Like, it's almost like he can't grab on to something to get off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I think that's a great sentence to tell him. I see you.

[Diana]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I know you can't get off. But here's the truth. When you land next time, I'm going to ask you to go spend the night in a hotel, because I don't want you coming straight from the airport, because I can't handle it in the house. It's too hot.

[Diana]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or I'll go with you. Like, nobody would make fun of you if you had a leak in the roof and you had to go ask somebody how to repair the shingles. You don't have the tools right now to get off the busyness roller coaster and to be present with your family and actually decide, we want to live here, do we want to move, do we want to go do something else? And so we're going to get the help that we need for me. Will you go do that?

[Diana]

We've talked about, like, him going to therapy before, and he's. It's a little too nervous to do it alone. Is that something that we could start.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Together 1000 million, billion percent? Yes. That'd be the greatest gift you can give him. And I would probably phrase it like this. I've made an appointment with a trusted counselor that a couple of friends of ours like pointed out. I'm going next Tuesday. A way you could really show me that you love me is if you came with me.

[Diana]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And when you get to the therapist, it's not going to be about, he's doing this, and he's doing this. It is. I'm out of ways to show my husband that I love him, that he's safe at home. I want to learn some new skills. And when he hears it and with a neutral third party, not in his environment at his house, where it's all, like, where he. He's got an energy that he's walking into his own house with. When you're sitting in a therapist and your wife says, I'm trying so hard to love him and I'm out of tools, I don't know how can you help me? Therapist often that has a just. It's like peeling a cataract off a situation. Because no husband that I know wants their wife to feel like they're out of options on how to love their love them. And that would be a great invitation for him. But yes, I'd make the appointment. I would tell him you're going, and if he doesn't show up, I would go anyway. But invite him and tell him those words. The number one way you could show me you love me right now is to go with me. Because I love you so, so, so much and I miss you and I don't have a connection. Point back. Thank you for the call, Diana. He's lucky to have you in his life. And he's lucky to love you through his grief that you're loving him through his grief. You're loving him through his addiction to busyness. You're loving him through his. He's terrified on what to do next. He doesn't have a dad in his life that he can call and say, hey, old man, can you help me with this next move? He's lucky to have you. Just remember, empathy rarely equals silence. Empathy is not passive. Empathy is active. Thanks for loving him. Well, Diana, we'll be right back. I've got to tell you about Cozy Earth, the makers of incredible sheets, bedding and bath linens. It is almost time. It's almost time. Spring is almost here. And Cozy Earth has a Spring into Comfort sale going on right now. It's a great time to buy their bamboo sheet sets and their bath sheets. I love, love their sheets. And their towels are giant and soft and they don't get all thin and crusty after going through the laundry. They're the best. Cozy Earth sheet sets are soft and breathable, and they keep me and my family cool and comfortable all night long. And like I said, you'll feel the quality of their bath sheets right away. They're so huge. You don't even call them towels, they call them bath sheets. And they're actually more like a bath comforter. Listen, it doesn't matter what they're called. They're just amazing. I also got a huge Cozy Earth weighted blanket that my whole family piles under. And it is bye bye for my anxiety. Cozy Earth is my go to and your go to for building a sanctuary in your home so you can feel safe, relaxed and ready to take on whatever comes next. Right now, Cozy Earth's Spring Into Comfort Sale is happening with exclusive savings for you watching or listening to this show. 40 off everything that's 40 off. Visit cozyearth.com deloney and use code deloney right now. That's C o z y cozyearth.com DeLoney all right, something awesome happened. What is it? Kelly?

[Kelly]

Yeah, so this one's a little longer, so bear with me. And he asked that we not use his name and we're gonna respect that. First of all, we need some more cool crap that happens and am I the problem?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So awesome.

[Kelly]

Send them our way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Very cool.

[Kelly]

All right, Started listening from the beginning when you joined the Ramsey team. At the time we were about 11 years into marriage with two elementary aged kids. I was a dad who yelled and said sarcastic and mean things to my wife and kids. My wife and I had very little communication. We were having sex maybe once a year and did not know how to have difficult conversations. I was working long hours, not available, drinking daily in the afternoons before I would come home to my family. Dinner time was stressful. I would stay up late working, watching movies and drinking and then wake up exhausted. I needed caffeine and B12 to get me through the day. I was keeping secrets and we were unhappy and I was beginning to have health problems. Many things from your show have impacted my living and caused me to make changes in my behavior Almost from the beginning. One of the first things you said that touched me was yelling is abuse. It's childish and abusive. Also that secrets damage relationships. Another is the practice of letter writing to forgive myself and deal with past trauma and guilt. Since listening to you, I've sought more counseling, forgiven myself for past mistakes. My wife and I no longer yell at each other or at our kids. I forgive forgiven others who hurt me when I was a child. I've had hard conversations with relatives and friends. I no longer drink to manage stress and I've made it a practice to connect regularly with old friends. I'm exercising regularly and I no longer need caffeine to wake up in the mornings. My wife and I are learning to communicate and are practicing caring for each other in many, many ways. We schedule date nights and our intimacy is more regular and frequent with no shame.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh yeah, we're off the annual plan.

[Kelly]

It was so helpful to learn and to hear that other married couples were strugg dealing with the same issues. Helpful to learn that the 7 to 10 mark in many marriages is a common time of difficulty in resetting. Appreciate you joining the team and that your insights are being shared across the globe. Keep up the amazing work.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dude, I'm not even going to comment on that. That's awesome. I think that guy speaks for himself. Well done, dude. You're doing the work. You and your wife are doing the work and that's awesome. And for whatever it's worth, your grandkids are going to have a different life because you chose to to turn down, turn around and stare down the dragons. It's awesome. It's hard every single day. I'm proud of you brother and everybody else out there who is making, who are making changes, tiny ones, minute by minute, hour by hour, year by year. Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. And shout out to you, team Gang, the guys who actually do this show. Thank you all. I think, I think we're doing a good thing out in the world. Bye.