Husband Spent $27K on Mobile Games

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Husband Spent $27K on Mobile Games”

The Dr. John Delony Show | November 5, 2025 | Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show dives deep into financial infidelity, relationship trust, and the intersection of mental health with marital and parenting challenges. The main focus is a vulnerable call from Kenna, who discovers her husband has hidden a staggering $27,000 debt mostly fueled by mobile game purchases. The episode also addresses supporting spouses through major life transitions and confronting loved ones about addiction.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Kenna’s Story: Financial Infidelity & Trust Shattered

[00:21–16:29]

Discovery of Hidden Debt

• Kenna reveals that her husband concealed $27,000 in debt, largely attributed to mobile phone game purchases.
  • “Through that process, I found out that my husband had been hiding about $27,000 in debt. Not the first time he's had debt that I wasn't aware of, but definitely the largest amount.” — Kenna [01:12]
• The true amount was revealed in fragments, with repeated assurances from her husband that her discoveries represented the total—until more surfaced.
• Emotional Impact: Kenna feels the weight of repeated dishonesty more than the debt itself and struggles with shattered certainty about her partner's identity.
  • “I feel like I don’t even know who he is at the moment.” — Kenna [02:33]
  • “I've built a life. I spent a decade with this guy. I don't even know who you are.” — Dr. John [02:37]

Nature of the Addiction

• The spending is explained as a compulsion tied to collecting virtual rewards in games, echoing forms of behavioral addiction.
• Dr. John voices skepticism about the explanation, suggesting the possibility of deeper issues or even different types of spending (e.g. gambling, adult subscriptions).
  • “This is not passing my smell test.” — Dr. John [00:33, 04:05]

Pattern of Deception and Trust Erosion

• Efforts to combine finances and move forward are met with continued concealment and “financial infidelity.”
  • “It’s financial infidelity. He’s cheated on you a number of times.” — Dr. John [05:42]
• Kenna demonstrates caution by pulling credit reports, linking accounts, and investigating potential hidden loans.

Links to Past Trauma

• Kenna previously fled an abusive marriage. She notes the parallel sense of betrayal and loss of safety.
  • “This whole sense of safety that I found with him got just demolished.” — Kenna [07:05]
  • “You traded passivity for violence… but the underlying core—deceiving, dishonorable, dishonest person—is still there.” — Dr. John [07:13]

Practical Steps & the Path Forward

• Dr. John outlines actionable steps:
  • Check for any additional financial betrayals: HELOCs, retirement account withdrawals, etc. [09:04]
  • Distinguishes between “setting boundaries” (protecting yourself) and providing a “path back to trust” for her husband with strict requirements (e.g., no cell phone or monitored devices).
    • “You have to be honest about answering this question: Am I going to stay or am I going to go?” — Dr. John [09:06]
    • “If you want to build trust from scratch, from ash, here’s what that’ll look like.” — Dr. John [14:12]
  • Emphasizes the importance of clear, enforceable boundaries and the necessity for Kenna to listen to her gut and honor her own intuition.
    • “Trusting your gut” and not keeping secrets—particularly questions that must be asked—is critical to recovery. [17:17]
  • “[You’re] not crazy. You get to decide what happens next. And then your husband gets to choose: Is he in or is he out?” — Dr. John [19:08]

Notable Quotes

• “Most people don’t realize that when somebody cheats on you or deceives you, the hardest person to trust again is you.” — Dr. John [16:29]
• “I'm worthy of being trusted, and if you—deceiver—don’t like the fact that I'm asking questions… that's your problem, not mine.” — Dr. John [17:17]

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2. Supporting a Spouse Considering Returning to Work

Caller: James
[20:44–33:45]

Setting

• James, a single-income father of two young kids, seeks advice on supporting his wife’s desire to possibly return to work after years as a stay-at-home mom.

Dr. John’s Advice

• Start with open, honest conversation: “I would love to hear more, can you tell me more about that?” [23:03]
• Explore whether returning to work reflects purpose and fulfillment or escape from overwhelming loneliness.
  • “It’s very common for new mothers to drown in loneliness… it’s madness! It’s not how people have lived…we set it up so she goes into this box with these kids and never comes out.” — Dr. John [24:11]
• Encourage creative solutions: breaks, community, babysitters, mom’s groups.
• Suggests a proactive gesture: arranging time away together to rebuild and intentionally discuss their evolving marriage and household roles.
• Emphasizes the cyclical renewal of marriage with each major life change (“marriage 3.0”).
  • “We get to rebuild. We get to redesign marriage 3.0.” — Dr. John [31:12]
• Acknowledges financial stresses, the impossibility of pleasing society, and the importance of teamwork and honest reassessment.

Memorable Moments

• “The modern mom can’t win… if she’s at home, people are like, why aren’t you working? If she’s at work, people are like, you’re just going to let someone else raise your kid?” — Dr. John [25:03]
• “I'm celebrating you. …What do we want this thing to look like? Then it’s game on.” — Dr. John [33:35]

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3. Confronting a Friend’s Addiction with Compassion

Caller: Lauren (Toronto, ON)
[34:50–49:58]

Lauren’s Dilemma

• Lauren, an addictions and mental health therapist, grapples with how to confront a close friend about escalating alcohol use.
• Struggles with the boundary between professional skill and personal friendship, and the risk to the relationship.

Dr. John’s Coaching

• If a loved one hasn’t asked for input, unprompted intervention may damage the relationship, but not stepping in is also painful.
  • “When you’re giving wisdom that you’re not asked for, it may cost you the relationship.” — Dr. John [38:06]
• Key question: “Am I okay with losing this friendship if this person gains their life?” [38:15]
• Advocates candid, direct truth-telling, rooted in love: “As your friend, I gotta tell you I’m worried about you.” [41:43]
• Avoids armchair therapy or focusing on the addiction details: “You don’t have to be a therapist… I am just worried about you.” [42:00]
• Stresses the reframe: The addiction is not the cause but a solution to underlying pain; address the pain with compassionate honesty.

Professional & Personal Wisdom

• “It is dishonoring to watch somebody spiral and not say, hey, stop doing this thing.” — Dr. John [46:11]
• Critiques therapeutic culture’s overemphasis on non-judgment: “Where you and I were trained is you never criticize… I think that leaves a culture that says, just go do you, whatever you want. And we're watching our friends die.” [45:09]
• “You can't be in relationship with somebody until you see them, know them, celebrate them, and then you have permission to challenge them.” — Dr. John [44:41]

Takeaway for Helpers

• Sometimes, loving someone is risking the friendship to tell hard truths, but only in the context of genuine, celebrated relationship.
• “If every time my friend John came to my house and… started telling me about my air conditioners, I would just get annoyed with them real fast. Right. …But if you show up to your friend’s house as an addiction specialist, that’s not why she invited you over.” — Dr. John [50:04]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I feel like I don't even know who he is at the moment.” – Kenna [02:33]
• “This is not passing my smell test.” – Dr. John [00:33, 04:05]
• “It’s financial infidelity. He’s cheated on you a number of times.” – Dr. John [05:42]
• “You’re not crazy. You get to decide what happens next.” – Dr. John [19:08]
• “The modern mom can’t win… if she’s at home, people are like, why aren’t you working? If she’s at work, people are like, you’re just going to let someone else raise your kid?” – Dr. John [25:03]
• “When you’re giving wisdom to somebody …that did not ask for your wisdom, it may cost you the relationship.” – Dr. John [38:06]
• “You can’t be in relationship with somebody unless you see them, you got to know them, and you got to celebrate them regularly. And those things give you permission to challenge them.” – Dr. John [44:41]

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Key Takeaways

• Financial Betrayal: Is a breach of trust equal to other forms of infidelity; rebuilding trust must be intentional and on the terms of the wronged partner.
• Parental and Marital Burnout: Open dialog and honest reassessment are needed as circumstances shift, particularly for parents.
• Challenging Addiction: When confronting a friend, direct, compassionate honesty is vital; risking discomfort and even the friendship may be the most loving act.
• Default Settings: Feelings are not a GPS; doing the next right thing is more important than feeling perfectly about it.
  • “You prioritize your partner over your kids. Feel the guilt and go do the right thing anyway.” – Dr. John [52:24]

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Segment Timestamps

• Kenna’s Call: Financial Infidelity [00:21–16:29]
• James’s Call: Supporting a Spouse Returning to Work [20:44–33:45]
• Lauren’s Call: Confronting Addiction in a Friend [34:50–49:58]

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This episode offers compassionate, no-nonsense wisdom for those navigating betrayal, overwhelming life changes, and the heartache of loving someone through addiction. Dr. Delony’s practical frameworks, paired with empathy and occasional hard truths, equip listeners to face their own relational challenges with honesty and courage.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Big news. New dates for money and marriage Getaway just dropped. For Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get [e-mail] events to get away with your spouse. In Nashville, Tennessee.

[Kenna]

I found out that my husband had been hiding $27,000 in debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what's he spending his money on?

[Kenna]

Mobile phone purchases.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you, this is not passing my smell test.

[Kenna]

I know. Me either.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you sure it's not only fans? What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. So glad you're with us. Pull up a seat. We're talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life here to sit with you. We're gonna figure out what's the next right move. Let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona and talk to Kenna. What's up, Kenna?

[Kenna]

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for having me on the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Thanks for calling. What's up?

[Kenna]

Well, I've been with my husband now. We've been married for seven years. Together for nine years. We came across Dave Ramsey and the Financial Peace University and started this kind of financial awakening journey. And through that process, I found out that my husband had been hiding about $27,000 in debt. Not the first time he's had debt that I wasn't aware of, but definitely the largest amount. And the biggest issue was that I was finding out in small pieces. And he would say that that was it. There's nothing more. And then I continue to find more and more debts. And so it's more around the lying. That's been the larger issue, I think, for me. And then more recently found out that he had stolen money out of our HSA account to put towards these debts, and then, you know, re spent it. So it's kind of a short of. It simply is this pattern of spending and lying. I feel like I don't even know who he is at the moment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the problem.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've built a life. I spent a decade with this guy. I don't even know who you are. Which.

[Kenna]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you look in the mirror, you ask yourself, how did I miss this? What did I do?

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, what happened? How did. I'm a person who. And I missed this.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or you ask yourself the. The. There's the disbelief question that. That's like, how did I miss this? Or there's the shame question, which is I knew in my gut something wasn't right and I didn't press it.

[Lauren]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what, what's he spending this money on?

[Kenna]

Oh, mobile phone game purchases are the majority of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you seen the receipts?

[Kenna]

Yeah, I looked through all the bank statements, credit card statements and there's some other purchases, but the bulk of it is on mobile games. And he has started to get counseling around it and it seems to be connected to some sort of collection addiction, like to collecting things, I guess, is what he's been saying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So can I tell you, this is not passing my smell test.

[Kenna]

I know. Me either.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's like, are you sure it's not only fans that.

[Kenna]

Well, I was looking into that. Well, I couldn't find any evidence of it on what I had access to, but I definitely, that's what my gut's telling me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This, this may have this, this like I'm trying to wreck my brain real fast. Live while we're talking. I've heard gambling. I've heard spend. I mean I've heard, I've heard like almost an ocds compulsion towards like when a, a collector, like a baseball card comes up. I got to get it, got to get it. That kind of thing.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And all of the majority has been either online gambling or some sort of only fans or I'm seeing somebody else have a drug problem. I can't think of a time in my life when I've heard addicted to mobile.

[Kenna]

Yeah, it's his whole thing. It's like, oh, you collect characters and then you become like, I'm like the top guy in the league and I am the one that everybody goes to. And I'm like, well that sounds like there's some self worth stuff there. But yeah, I feel like there's more. That's kind of been the challenge is every time it was like, no, that's it. My gut was like, no, that's not it. And then eventually there would be more. And it's hard to view this as one incident.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's financial infidelity. He's cheated on you a number of times.

[Kenna]

A number of times. And then with the continual lying and the continual unveiling of more and more, I've given so many opportunities to just even the first, you know, portion of this I discovered I was like, hey, let's just, you know, we're trying to get our finances together. We're going to debt free and all this stuff. So let's just put our cards on the table. Like this is the time. Like just whatever it is, we'll tackle it together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And do you have kids?

[Kenna]

That's it. I promise you know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have kids?

[Kenna]

Yeah, we have one together, and we're a blended family, so we have two kids from other marriages, but we have one child together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you've been married before?

[Kenna]

Yes, we both were married before.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happened in your first marriage? Why did that marriage end?

[Kenna]

I was actually in a very abusive, like, toxic relationship with a man that was, you know, both emotionally, physically, sexually abusive and lied and cheated and did all those horrible things. It took me about six years to get out of that situation. So when I met my husband.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And now we're back. We're. Now we're back.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

That's like. This is.

[Kenna]

This whole sense of safety that I found with him got just demolished because.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, you traded passivity for violence, which was a. I get that trade. It's a good trade. But the underlying core. Deceiving, dishonorable, dishonest person. Still there.

[Lauren]

Yeah, that's what it. Yep.

[Kenna]

Which is this whole kind of full circle. Like, I don't even know who you are, because that's. I thought I was getting this totally different sort of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Kenna]

Which, I mean, he's nothing like that. That's an extreme.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. I mean, yes, you. You took the acute physical and. And sexual and psychological safety like you. That. I mean, you. You knew enough to walk away from that. But we still plugged into the same core. The same core.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Challenge. Yeah.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let me ask you this. Have you pulled credit reports for both of you?

[Kenna]

Yes. So we've got it.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're confident that you're locked in at 27,000 in the hole?

[Kenna]

I am not. Because there are ways to have money loans that are not on your credit report or ways for money. You know, just like the hsa. I told them, I go credit reports aren't the only way to discover, and then I find out, oh, yeah, you have. Thousands of dollars have been taken out of her. So there are things that I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you checked your. Have you checked your retirement accounts?

[Kenna]

Yes, I have all those.

[Lauren]

We have all.

[Kenna]

All the accounts we have. Like, those are linked into a money app that we use. So I have. And things that weren't are now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Kenna]

LinkedIn there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, you know, there's no loans against those things.

[Kenna]

Correct.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you called your mortgage company to see if there's a HELOC against your house?

[Kenna]

Oh, gosh, no.

[Lauren]

I'll check that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would do that today.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's. Here's to. To cut to the chase and get beneath all of the madness. Here's your path forward. Okay. Question number One you have to ask yourself, is this an or what moment? And what I mean by that is you have to be honest about answering this question. Am I going to stay or am I going to go?

[Kenna]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And any question like, if you are out this, I'm going to say he deserves. And I know people are going to bristle at that. Every human deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I'm it. I don't care who you are. You deserve me to tell you the truth. If you're out, I want you to exhale and be honest about that path. Okay?

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you're wondering, I don't know, I need to see some big improvements. Everything's got to change. Like that's the old dumb and dumber. So you're telling me there's a chance.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, and here's the thing. You and I know, it's like I don't want to do any more work. I just gave you another thing. You're like, well, crap, I didn't think about the freaking heloc. Like, I know you don't want to do any more work, but here we are. Okay.

[Kenna]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have to do this hard, gut wrenching thing which is I am going to give you a path back to re. Establish. Not re. Establishing from scratch establishing trust. And here's what must be true. And I would suggest things like you cannot have a cell phone. You can have a brick phone. Otherwise I can't breathe. Not. I don't. I don't trust you.

[Kenna]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't trust you. It's not a me thing, it's a you thing. You've. You've made it impossible. So here's a brick phone. We're going to buy one. It has no Internet access to can text and it can whatever. I'm going to set up a bark account or whatever, a Covenant Eyes account or whatever, and I'm going to attach it to your phone and to our home computers so that it tell. It gives me a report of whoever I whenever I go to websites.

[Kenna]

Like, you know, that was a thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So it's. Normally it's for. For parents and teenagers. Right. Parents of kids. But the, the sentiment is here I am going to. Here's what you are going to choose to do if you want to choose to be in relationship with me.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And when a. A partner gets cheated on, which is what's happened to you, you set the 60, 90 day, 120 day, 180 day. You set the path for reestablishing trust and to not do that is not fair. Because then you're forcing him to be a mind reader and to quote, unquote, make you feel a certain way, and he'll never be able to make you feel a certain way.

[Lauren]

You're gonna.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're gonna feel awkward, uncomfortable. You're gonna second guess everything forever. That's just what happens when you've been cheated on your whole life. Right. To not give him a path and to stay in relationship isn't fair. Or call it.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I hate to be that brass tax about it, but that's where you're at.

[Kenna]

Yeah, I think. I mean, that kind of tracks then.

[Lauren]

With what I've done.

[Kenna]

I mean, I haven't done the website. Checker checked our heloc, but, you know, we've got boundaries and accountability and sort of things in place.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's you building walls. That's you building boundaries. Oh, you need to see him. Like, you have to protect yourself. He's stealing from your medical account.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, that's. And you have a child that. Like, this is about protection, right?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't want him to get credit for. We're working together. No, no, no. You as a mother, have had to. You've had to get a bow and arrow to go defend and protect your family because he's one of the people trying to take from it. And when you start stealing from your kids, hsa, God help you, dude.

[Kenna]

I know that's right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what I mean? So.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not crazy. You're not crazy.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you had. So this isn't about you doing what you. You ran a bunch of credit reports, you went and checked a bunch of numbers to make sure you are safe and your kids are safe. That's not y' all being on the path to getting well again.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That's you going to the er. That's not about.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Longevity. Now you're going to give him a path, a sidewalk, a cobblestone path that he can choose to walk or not. He might say, I don't want to be married to you if it means no phone.

[Kenna]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's a grown man. He gets to pick that.

[Lauren]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He may say, I'm not sharing my money in your account. I'm a grown man. I can do what I want. He can say, this is my HSA2. And legally, he's right.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. So. But it's giving him a path to say, if you want to build trust from scratch from Ash, here's what that'll look like.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Kenna]

I didn't. I wasn't connecting the difference between like boundary setting versus, like, I don't know, path forward. So that's, that's good.

[Lauren]

That gives me some stuff to think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

About or let me like to make a visceral example for you because you lived this. There was a moment when you had to get you and a kid out of your last house. Right?

[Lauren]

Correct. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That's what you just did. Except you did it financially.

[Lauren]

Only.

[Kenna]

I mean, kind of. He still has access to everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lauren]

Which makes me so nervous.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Okay. So if re. Establishing trust is you don't have access to this account for 120 days.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So that I can get my feet back under me.

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then, by the way, everybody who's been. Ever been cheated on, everybody who's been a relationship with somebody who's committed any sort of fidelity, infidelity. Right. You also cannot. You've got to spend some time with you both. In honoring what you. I had this feeling in my guts and I was wrong. And I. I have a sense you're doing it again right now.

[Lauren]

Yeah, I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, in your bones or something else. And you're so exhausted from first marriage. You're exhausted from this marriage. Exhausted from 10 years of being gaslit. It's just easier just to go on with the gas lights on.

[Kenna]

Like, that's what I'm afraid. I have this fear that either I'm not. I'm unjustly. Well, not unjustly, but am I making a judgment call that may not be true or has time and time again it's been proven my gut is accurate. And not only is there probably more to this, this probably will happen again because it's already happened once before, so. Yeah. Well, that's sobering.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, most people don't realize that when somebody cheats on you or deceives you that one of the. I. I think the hardest person to trust again is you.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Kenna]

100%. And keep making bad calls.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no, no, no, it's not. Because somewhere along the way, if you and I sat down for a couple hours, we would able to trace all the way back in your life when it was very clear to you that whatever you felt was wrong. And you need to shut up with your stupid gut feelings and with your sense and with your insights. You be quiet and let somebody else do what they want to do. That probably goes all the way back to when you were a kid, right?

[Kenna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not messed up. There's not Something wrong with you. You're not an idiot. The next evolution of you learning to walk in your skin and walk in your shoes is I am worthy of being trusted. And if you deceiver, don't like the fact that I'm asking questions or I am trusting my intuition, I'm trusting my lived experience, that's your problem, not mine. But reestablishing trust with yourself, and here's what that looks like I will commit to. If I have a gut feeling about something, I'm going to ask. I'm not going to keep secrets. And often we think of keeping secrets as things we're not going to tell that we did. Secrets are also questions we're not asking. You can be nervous about something, have an intuition about something, wonder if somebody's cheating or hiding money or whatever. The thing is, and it's a secret to be harboring that in your spirit and your chest and not put it on the table for your partner to answer and to address. And I'm not going to keep secrets anymore. I'm worth not keeping secrets anymore. So that's your path. Make a call. And I'm not going to make that call for you. I'm either in or I'm out. And if I'm in, I am going to be very thoughtful. I'm going. And you know what? I'm going to go 30 days. By 30 days, I'm going to revise it every 30 days. But for 30 days, here's how you can establish trust. No phones, no connection to my. To our bank accounts or what. You get to decide what they are. And they can sound extreme. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You're trying to catch your breath after running out of a house that was on fire, and that's. That's what matters here. You're not crazy, Kenna. You're not crazy. You get to decide what happens next. And then your husband gets to choose. Is he in or is he out? Thank you so so much for the call. We come back, a man asks how to support his wife as she considers going back to work. This show is sponsored by Better Help. This time of year can be tough for everybody, so I want you to make sure you check in on your friends and reconnect with loved ones. I recently just got back from visiting some old friends in Texas, and it was like a cup of cold water in the desert. And just like it can take a little courage to send a message or grab coffee with somebody you haven't seen in a while. Reaching out for Therapy can also feel hard too. But if you need it, it's worth it. If you're reaching out for a new therapist, I recommend better help. With over 30,000 therapists, they're the largest online therapy provider in the world. They've served over 5 million people globally and they have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5. It's totally online, so it can easily fit into your banana schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions and they're going to connect you with a licensed therapist who fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit out of the gate, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. This month, don't wait to reach out. BetterHelp makes it easy to take a first step to find a therapist, visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month, that's better help. H E L p.com DeLoney all right, we're back. Like subscribe all the stuff, Tell the overlords you love the show. Got to Hampton Roads, Virginia and talk to James. What up, James?

[James]

Yeah, hi, Dr. DeLoney.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up, man?

[James]

Thank you. Not much. Doing well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Very good.

[Lauren]

What's up?

[James]

So. So I guess I'll just get into it. So we're a single income family. My income, my wife is a stay at home mom to our two kids. We have one is under three, she's two and a half. And then we have a. Well, he's going to be eight months here in a few days, but so we're driving the other day and my wife mentioned to me possibly she's always been a stay at home mom since we've had our kids. But my wife mentioned to me recently possibly wanting to go back to work, which is fine. I mean, if she wants to go back to work, then I have no problem with that. It might be kind of difficult financially, but. But we can figure that out. But I guess I was just wondering, like, how should I. She hasn't said anything to me since about it, but I think it's becoming, the stay at home mom thing is becoming a little overwhelming for her. Yeah. Our youngest child is, I mean, he's fine. Like there's nothing medically wrong with him, but he's a lot for sure. He wants to be held 247 and if he's not being held, he starts screeching. So he's a bit much. So I guess I just wanted to ask how should I, how should I best be there to support her in that possible transition?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

James you're an awesome husband, man.

[James]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thanks for being a guy that loves his wife and wants to honor her. And you, like all of us new dads, get stuck in those moments where it's like, I don't know the right, I don't know the right thing to say. I don't know the right thing to do. And I don't know James, if you're like, I was back when we had little kids, but it felt like I could see a clear solution to a thing and I knew just being like, why don't you do this? I know that wasn't the answer and so I kind of would get stuck and spin. So thank you so much. Here's, here's the path I would take. I would want to know, do you want to go back to work because you find purpose and fulfillment in a career? Like, how can I love you in this transition? I think you literally say those words. You mentioned going back to work. I would love to hear more. Can you tell me more about that? The question I would want to know is, is going to work a, a justifiable escape from the madness that is day in and day out with a 2 1/2 year old and an 8 month old? Cuz if it is, let's seek to solve for that. Let's seek to solve for. We're going to come up with some extra money and we're going to get babysitters. We're going to, you're going to go two days a week to hang out with other moms. We're going to put our kids in a Tuesday Thursday school. We're going to figure out some things we can do to give you a break. It's very common for mothers, new mothers especially, to drown in what I would call loneliness. They just suffocate and they think it's the kids, it's, they are so lonely. And the way we've set up our society is you. If a woman wants to be a stay at home mom, the default setting is you go inside this box at your house with these kids and you never come out. And it's, it's just, it's insanity. It's madness. It's not how people have lived. For all of human history, there was wives and aunts and sisters and neighbors and grandmothers. There was so many people that gave you breaks and loved on your kid and punished your kid and supported your kid and taught your kid. And now we just set it up to where it's like you close this door and it's all you. It's madness. And so I would want to know, is that the sense that you're going through, or is she thinking, man, I loved being at work. I felt the purpose there. I want to get back into that grind. And I loved it. And I'm even embarrassed to say that because I know, by the way, James, you've heard me say this on the show. The modern mom can't win, because if she's at home, people are like, why aren't you working and contributing and financially? And if she's at work, like, oh, you're just gonna let somebody else raise your kid? Like, you can't win. And so it's letting her know. I know the whole world is yelling at you from every direction. I want you to know I love you and I'll support you and I'll walk with you, but I want to make sure we're solving the right pain in your. In your heart, your chest. And then just shut up and listen and let her talk.

[James]

Well, yeah, that's a. That's a good suggestion, because I do think. I mean, I try not to assume what she's thinking because that always ends up getting me in trouble, but well done, James.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well done. It took me like 15 years of being married to figure that out. You're way ahead of me.

[James]

But just internally, I do get the feeling that it's more just like an escape thing because she's mentioned to me in the past, like, actually exactly what you just said she said in the past, like, I'm lonely. I just feel lonely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[James]

So I do feel like it's an escape from. An escape to somewhere where she automatically has friends kind of thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and it's. It's permissible, right? It's not permissible for a mom who's not talked to another adult for three years outside of her spouse. It's not permissible for her just go running out into the night and not come back. Right. People will frown upon that. And people frown upon any number of other solutions, like just going to hang out with some women twice a week, just some girlfriends just to laugh and cut up and be silly and have interaction. People like, oh, really? You can abandon your kids. And sometimes moms feel that. Like, I feel like I'm abandoning my kid. Or sometimes this isn't not you at all, but sometimes husbands are like, you need to, like, just jerks. Right? So there is that. It feels like sometimes the only. The only actual place to go where people won't beat you up too bad is I'M gonna go get a job. And so her knowing she's right, you're right there with her. And here's another. You know what? I. I'm gonna take back a few things I said. You know what I would actually do first, James, if I were. If this is just me in your, in your seat.

[Lauren]

What?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would reach out to a friend or a community member, somebody I trust. I would get a babysitter for three hours on a Saturday morning. So you figure this out. Somebody from a local church, somebody from school, somebody who y' all used before, whatever, or a grandparent come in or something. And you take her out and say, we have two beautiful babies, which means we have a whole brand new marriage. We get to decide what the next two years, next five years looks like. Let's rebuild an amazing marriage together. How can I love you in this season?

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then just let her go. And she might say, I don't know, and be like, I know, but give me one or two things. Let's talk about it. How do you want this house to feel like when I walk home from work every day? How do you want this house to feel like when you wake up every morning and James, it might be you get up an extra hour and you're knocking out the dishes and you're having to get up an extra hour and a half early because you're going to get your exercise in and you're going to knock out the dishes and you're going to help with the first couple loads of laundry. And like, I can do that so that she can go visit some girlfriends. Or I'm going to come home early on Thursdays and, and Tuesdays and while you're go hang out with you're like, whatever. We get to build what this thing looks like. And both of y' all are going to be exhausted for a season, right? It's winter. You can put coats on, it's going to be cold. Like, we're going to be exhausted together. What is that, what is that going to look like?

[James]

Yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good suggestion. I think a lot of it too, is. So we have kind of been. Well, not as much as I'd like, but we've kind of been following the baby steps for a couple years now. So I've had a. I've had a side hustle, a second job for. I was there for. Gosh, I guess it's actually been probably more like three and a half years. I've had. I had the second job for three years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It may be. It may be time to pause.

[James]

Yeah, I don't have it anymore.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[James]

But, yeah, so that might be. And element the well, again, part of the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We get to rebuild. We get to redesign marriage 3.0, because y' all had a marriage when you got married. You had a mar. New marriage when you had a kid. One. You have a new marriage now that you got two kids in redesigning marriage 3.0. And by the way, I'm on marriage, like 22.0. Right. But marriage 3.0 might. A part of that is going to be financial discussion. Where do we want to be financially? We want to be completely. Do we want to have one year scorched earth? We're both sobbing and miserable every night, but I'm working like crazy, and we don't owe anybody any money. Is that what we want? Because we could do that and then have the rest of our lives. Or do we want to pause everything? We're not going to borrow any more money. We're not going to. We're not going to future chain our family. We're not going to change future family to past choices. And so we are going to scratch and claw and drive crummy cars and whatever, but we're not going to go any further than that. I'm not going to take any. Any other jobs because you need support right now. I'm going to be here. You're going to go out with friends. We don't have any money for you all to go, like, out having a few drinks, but y' all are going to go for walks, y' all gonna go play car, y' all gonna go do whatever. I don't know, whatever y' all want to do, you're gonna go do those things. And. Because for the next nine months, I'm just gonna park it here. And then when our kids one and a half years old and our kids four, then we're going to have a little bit more breathing room and we can make a new decision then. But it's. It's sitting down and being honest about the finances, honest about your kids, honest about loneliness, honest about both of your hearts. What do y' all need from each other? And then making a commitment high five. Like, bring it in, bro hug. Like, we are committing to this thing, and then we're just gonna go make it happen. And if that's going back to work, it's going back to work. But it sounds like in this situation, it's just not being at home with a constant stress and pressure, and that's a very real pain. And by the way, James, she's also feeling the sense of what kind of mother doesn't want to be around her kid? What kind of mother gets exhausted holding her baby? That's the other tension here. She can't win. And so you coming alongside her and saying, I see you and I love you and I know you. I'm celebrating you. What do we want this thing to look like, man? Then it's game on. Then it's game on. Thanks for call, brother. When we come back, a woman asks how to confront her alcoholic friend. If you've seen me speaking on stages recently all over the country, speaking at live events, or even the other night when I was at the comedy club here in Nashville, you've seen me wearing poncho shirts. I love them. It's basically all I wear. And right now it's cold outside, so I can wear my super favorites, my poncho denims and and flannels. The ones I wear almost every day are the Laramie and the buffalo. Those are so awesome. Poncho's performance denim has that soft, broken in feel with a little bit of stretch, like you've worn it a thousand times, but it still looks awesome. Poncho flannels come in original or western styles, and they're guaranteed to be the softest shirts you own. Somehow they're both durable and comfortable. Poncho shirts come in slim or regular fit. They're built for real life, and they hold up to whatever your day throws at you. When you're shopping for the guys in your life this holiday season, go to poncho outdoors.com DeLoney Sign up with your email and you'll get 10 bucks off your first order. I'm telling you, these will be your husband or boyfriend's favorite shirts. That's poncho outdoors.com DeLoney all right, let's go up north. Not to Oklahoma, but Toronto, Ontario and talk to Lauren. What's up, Lauren?

[Lauren]

Hello.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hello.

[Lauren]

Here. Thanks for having me on your show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm so glad you called in. How are you?

[Lauren]

A bit nervous, but I'm sure you know you're very good at relaxing your people that come here to speak with you. So, yeah, I'm ready to go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. I'm nervous too, by the way. I'm still trying to figure out how to do this, so I'm glad that you're with us. We can both be nervous together. So let it rip. What's up?

[Lauren]

All right. I have a friend that I've known for about four or five years. We're both the same age. We're older gals, and, you know, around 60. And I've noticed that, you know, when we first started our friendship, and I would come over for dinner, she would have a glass or two of wine and, okay, that's fine. But now, over the years, I see the increasing symptoms of excessive alcohol usage. She does two or three glasses of wine a night. Overwork, poor boundaries, you know, those kind of things. And I don't mean to be judgmental, but it's kind of what I do for a living, so I can sort of see what's going on. And I tried to sort of gently confront her in that, like, you know, I'm getting into a new health regime and watching what I eat and, you know, sugar intake and stuff like that. And I kind of mentioned I thought, okay, we'll come around the health route on this. And I said, you know, you know, that what you drink at night. I said, that has carbs, you know, if you can just sort of cut it back. And she said, yeah, I know, but, you know, but I like it, or it's worth it, or. And I was like, okay, so resistance. And I've noticed since then she's sort of, like, not calling as much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

And, you know, we're, we're still friends and stuff, and I think, you know, I'm just getting maybe too close to home, but I'm like, I would know how to do this, how to confront. Right. How to just sit down and have that real talk. If it was my family or if it was in my profession, no problem. But with a friend, I'm like, how do I manage this? How do I do this?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough when our. I, I. I got a call last night that I was not expecting, and it was a huge emotional weight. And I called a friend, and actually I called two friends, and I said, hey, I need y' all to help me walk through and think through what my next move is, because I can't carry it by myself. And I asked them to speak into a really wild situation that just got dropped in my lap. Now, the difference between my situation and your situation is your friend hasn't asked for your input on this thing.

[Lauren]

Nope.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I had. I got two different answers, by the way. Both were tough to hear, both contradicted each other, and both. This is going to sound strange is exactly what I need to hear, but I asked for it. And so you're up against a friend who hasn't asked for your input in their health, hasn't asked for your input in their alcohol consumption or how they're doing. And yet you, as a friend, like, I would feel compelled to say, hey, I love you. I want you to know I see you and I know you and I'm worried about you.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so when you're giving wisdom to somebody that you care about that did not ask for your wisdom, it may cost you the relationship.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I always have to ask myself, am I okay with losing this friendship if this person gains their life?

[Lauren]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or am I? Do we have good enough? I've got friends all. I'll say it this way. My friends, my longtime friends, they're not healthy guys at all, like, comically so. They're just not. And, but we're such good friends that we hassle each other all the time over it. All the time.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. If y' all aren't there, then for me, that gives me a signal of the state of your friendship. And you just have to ask yourself, you know what I mean? Like, like I'll ask my buddies, are you seriously having a drink? And they'll be like, yeah, oh, you're not good. And I'll be like, you're an idiot. And they're like, you're an idiot. And. But we are in relationship and they know that guy cares about me. And occasionally they'll not have another one, and occasionally they'll have two just to spite me. Right. Just to be silly. But that's the nature of a 30 or 40 year friendship.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In your situation. I don't know. And I'm thinking about this out loud in real time. Let me ask you this. What's your goal? What's your goal of a hard conversation? That she would suddenly go, God, I never thought of that before. You're right. Or is it that she's going to get mad at you, but then behind the anger, she's going to be sad and be grieved and know Lauren loves me?

[Lauren]

I don't know. My, my fear is like, I see the progression of the illness. Right. I see, you know, more cognitive. You know, how it affects your ability to reason and be large, logical, and to see reality as it is, not how as you would like it to be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you, what do you do for a living?

[Lauren]

Ah, I'm an addictions and mental health therapist.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so let me ask you the other side of that equation. Could it be that she struggles with seeing reality as it is, and alcohol helps take the edge off of that.

[Lauren]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sometimes we attach the causality to the other side of the chain.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wonder if she's a person who struggles with anxiousness all the time.

[Lauren]

Anxiousness, yeah, definitely anxiety. Even her daughter. Her daughter entered into counseling. Her daughter's in her 20s, and she's been now suggesting that her mom do this. Like, so I feel. And I just affirm that when I hear that, I'm like, yeah, well, you know, maybe that's something that my friend has a history, you know, from what she's told me of, you know, spousal abuse, domestic abuse, child. There's a lot of addiction in her family of origin and extended family. So I know, you know, there's probably sexual assault like this. It's probably, like, full. Full on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. Lauren, can I challenge you on something? We're friends now.

[Lauren]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm smiling kind of. Is that cool?

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you ever been able to. Well, are you thinking about the carbs with somebody in one of your programs before?

[Lauren]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. You know, you can't circle around the wagon on this conversation.

[Lauren]

Definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's either. I'm gonna go straight into this thing and say, hey, I need to just tell you as a friend who loves you, over four or five years, you've been a close friend of mine, and I've actually found myself, like, I really care about you. And that means as your friend, I gotta tell you I'm worried about you.

[Lauren]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't have to get into the. You don't have to be a therapist. We don't have to get into the sexual abuse. You don't have to get into this and your daughter and that. I am worried about you. And if they invite you in after that, she invites you and says, why are you worried, man? I've heard this. You told me this story. I told me this story. I'm just worried about you. That seems like the best path. And it might cost you this friendship.

[James]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I also think you wouldn't be you if you wouldn't. Aren't the kind of person that would have that conversation.

[Lauren]

Nope. Bang on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you, she's lucky to have you as a friend?

[Kenna]

Oh, thank you.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Kenna]

It's funny.

[Lauren]

I actually had a situation like this before I went into, you know, career that I'm in with a friend. Good friend. Really good friends. Right. And he crossed the boundary. Wasn't sexual or anything. Not of that nature, but just cruelty. And I drew a boundary with him and said, I'm not talking with you when you're like, this. And I hung up. And I didn't hear from him for, like, five, 10 years. And then all of a sudden, out of the blue, I got a call from him. I mean, he was so angry with me. He didn't even invite me to his wedding. He was like a brother, right? We were like brothers and brother and sister. And then I got a call from him that said, you know, I'm sorry about that. You know, I'm an alcoholic, right. So I'm thinking this is going to be the same kind of thing. You're right. This is the way God knitted me this part of my personality. And I. And honest to God, I feel like if I don't confront her on this, if I sort of. People please the situation. Right. And kind of like, walk around eggshells on this. If she were to die from this illness, I would feel like I should have. Should have confronted her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Right. And I watched my dad, like, I know how this goes. So I can already see the signs in her, right? And she thinks she was like, oh, it's worth it. And then she thinks she's just gonna drop dead one day and it's gonna be great. She'll drink and get to stay in that. And I'm not criticizing, but it's like, yeah, she's using it for a reason. Right. People use because they're in pain. So she's using it, you know, to stay away from that pain as much as she can. She doesn't understand you're gonna linger in illness. You're not just going to be taken, like, in your bed, asleep at night, and everything's going to be fine. You're going to suffer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So I want to challenge the training you and I both got. Okay. Because the more I'm out into the world, I think we were trained on one aspect incorrectly.

[Lauren]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The path that I've been wrapping my head around recently is that you can't be in relationship with somebody unless you see them. You got to know that they're a different person than you. And then you have to get to know them.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then you got to celebrate them regularly. And those three things give you permission to challenge them.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But where you and I were trained is you never criticize.

[Lauren]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think that leaves a look at our culture that says you just go, do you. And whatever you feel like is the next thing you want to do. It's the right thing. And we're watching our families dissolve. We're watching our culture dissolve. We're watching our friends die.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so if you can look in the mirror and say, I've seen her. I know she's different than me. She's got lived experience. She's got childhood tragedies. I've got my own childhood stuff. I know her. I know she's struggling. I know the language she. That she speaks. I know what she care. I know her. She's my friend and I celebrate her regularly. I call her to let her know, dude, you crush that, your daughter's amazing, whatever that buys you permission to. Then I got to tell you the truth.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love you too much. It would be not loving you as a therapist. It's dishonoring to watch somebody, it's cruel just to watch a client spiral and spiral and not say, hey, stop doing this thing. Right.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so here, it's one of those moments I think challenge, I think criticism is a right move. If you are in a relationship where she knows she's loved.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then that's the most loving thing you can do, is to put that on the table.

[Lauren]

Yep. I agree. You know, it's interesting. I started watching your show, I don't know, about two months ago, maybe, maybe more. And it actually gave me license to go in a direction that I always wanted to go, which is, I'm very pragmatic. Like, I don't want a person in my practice, like coming for three years. It's like, no, like, let's get to the root causes. What's driving this? Right. And then let's figure out a way out of this so that you can just go on about your life and actually have a good life and you just come to see me when you want, I don't know, like a tune up or something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amazing. I mean, I remember, I think I've talked about on the show. I remember when the person I see told me on day one, my job is to work myself out of a job with you. And I remember thinking, I can trust you.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's my job, is to help you get well so you can go get back out on the road.

[Lauren]

Yeah. I'm extremely pragmatic.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[Lauren]

Like I, I was educated, you know, here it's university, Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Lauren]

And I won't even get into all of that, but I'm like, no, how does the academia, how does theoretical, you know, evidence based stuff. How do we actually, like, put. Plug that in and, and, and exactly what you just said, like, let's solve this. Right. Like life. And one of the things I picked up is life isn't solved. It's managed. It's just. Okay. How do we put together something where you can manage your life well and live well in amongst the insanity that this world can become?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. And here's the thing. You know this better than any of us. Alcohol works. So I would look at your friend and say, hey, you're not broken. You're. You're using a tool that has worked great for you and it's going to kill you.

[Lauren]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I'm not dishonoring you. I'm not telling you that something's broken. I'm telling you that your strategy for solving, for keeping at bay the hellhounds that have been chasing you since you.

[Lauren]

Were a little girl, isn't that the truth?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The thing that has kept you safe and taken the edge off of that pain has actually worked. And only people who spend times with people who struggle with addiction know that alcohol is not the problem. The sex addiction isn't the problem. It's the solution to a. A black hole inside somebody's chest.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I love you enough to enter into that black hole with you for a minute and to say, I see you, I'm worried about you, and I love you. And the moment you're ready, I'll be right here. I'll be right here. And then similarly, like my buddy John, who's like, he is, Runs an H VAC company. When I need help with my air conditioner, I call him. Before I call a mechanic, I'm like, hey, is this thing working? Is this the right thing? And my friend who's a banker, I call him. And similarly, they happen to have a guy trained in mental health stuff, so when they got challenges, they call me. And what an amazing thing that her new best friend happens to be very skilled at sitting with people, wrestling with alcohol.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a skill. I'm not going to hand you my wrench, but if you ask for it, I got it right here in the back.

[Lauren]

I. I honestly feel like it's a God given. Like, this is my purpose.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's awesome.

[Lauren]

I've known that since I was quite young and. But now I've been able to enter into. Because it means one thing to that as your purpose, but then you also need to be competent. So you need to get your education, your training. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know what you're doing. And then you have your own lived experience, too, which I think adds that third stool, that third leg to the stool of wisdom.

[Lauren]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've coached people, you've have your own experience, and you went and got the education. You actually know what you're talking about. You didn't quote, unquote, do your research on Google or whatever people say these days. Like, you wouldn't. You wouldn't got. You wouldn't studied it, right? So you're the perfect person. But if every time my friend John came to my house and he walked around and started telling me about my air conditioners, I would just get annoyed with them real fast. Right. And so if you show up to your friend's house as an addiction specialist, that's not why she invited you over.

[Lauren]

Nope.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's letting her know, hey, I see you and I just got. I love you enough to tell you that I see the struggles you have and the moment you're ready to go, to call somebody about aa, to go see a therapist, to go, whatever. I will do everything I can, use every skill I have, every contact I have, and I'll be the first person at your door to walk with you. But I can't keep my mouth shut anymore. I love you too much. I love you too much. And that might cost you the friendship, but you will know I treated her with dignity. I treated her with respect. I treated her with honor. I treated her with truth. And I hope she will know, even if we disagree, that, man, I'm loved. Especially that we disagree. I'm loved. Thank you so much for the call, Lauren. I'm glad to know folks like you are out there. You make my heart full. Dude, that's awesome. We'll be right back. I want to invite you to something really cool happening this month. Hallow, the prayer app that I use every day, is teaming up with the Bible app and other Christian organizations all over the world for Global Bible Month. Heading into the holidays, there's no better time to slow down, reconnect with your spiritual life and bring prayer back into your daily life. During Global Bible Month, Hallow will offer a 30 day Bible story challenge. These are some of the most popular stories in the Bible, read by incredible voices that you already know and love like Lauren Daigle and Jonathan and Roomie and more. And while you're using Hallow, check out their thousands of prayers and meditations as well as their sleep series that can fill your mind with positive thoughts and stories as you drift off to sleep. Join me and millions of others around the world for Global Bible Month on Hallow. Let's dive into scripture together. Join now and you'll get three months [e-mail] Deloney that's Hallow H A L L O W.com Deloney all right, we are back. We got a money and marriage question. We've got the two money marriage events. I think the, I think the November one sold out and then the February one Valentine's Day weekend. Folks, listen to this. You can solve Christmas and Valentine's Day one purchase. Come to Nashville to the best marriage retreat ever. It's a long weekend here in Nashville, Tennessee. It's a blast. Rachel Cruz and I put it on. It's awesome. I don't, I don't know, there may be a few tickets left for November, but I think it was sold out. But it may be a few left. I know there are some tickets left for the February one. February one. Good job, John. But come join us. All right, here's one of the anonymous questions that was left at the last Money marriage. How do you prioritize your partner over your kids without feeling guilty? I want to say this with all, every ounce of being I have. You don't do or not do the right thing because of how you feel. Feelings job is not to tell you the truth. That's not what your feelings are designed for. Your feelings are not designed to direct your path. Feelings make terrible GPS systems. Feelings are designed to keep you safe and keep you alive. And so if you find yourself constantly doting on your kids and leaving your wife aside, constantly obsessed with the kids, the kids, the kids. And leaving your partner behind, your husband, whoever, feeling guilty and choosing to get a babysitter once a week, feeling guilty. And like at my house, I walk in the front door, the first person I go to is my wife, my kids. Now, they've known that for their whole life, but that's where I go first. And then I go hug the kids because she's priority number one. And their parties two and two. Like, I can feel all kind of ways, but I'm gonna go do that right thing. And what's happened over time is when you continue to do the right thing, your default settings sh. You stop feeling guilty. And I would ask myself in my quiet moments, if I'm writing a journal, if I'm going for a walk by myself, when my body feels guilty, what is it trying to protect me from? Why is that alarm going off, that suddenly I'm not safe, that I'm doing something wrong, I'm putting people at risk. Where does that guilt come from? And often that guilt of gotta be kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids. That guilt can come from the media we consume. That always telling, especially young moms, you have the wrong stroller, you got the wrong clothes, your kid doesn't have the right Halloween costumes, you don't look right, you're not working. You should be working. Whatever. Or that guilt comes from people pleasing that guilt any number of places. But ask yourself. Be honest. And often I've got to write out. If I'm trying to track down a feeling, I gotta journal it out. Where's this thing coming from? But seek to get to the bottom of the guilt. But the answer to this is built into the question. How do I prioritize my partner over my kids without feeling guilty? You prioritize your partner over your kids. Feel the guilt and go do the right thing anyway. Do the right thing anyway. The feelings that I pay extra careful attention to or shame. And there's. There's some things that we do as a culture. We should be ashamed. Shame's a good thing. It's when it gets toxic. It's when it becomes an identity. That's when it's becomes an illness. And I pay special attention to. To fear, to being scared. And I have to be conscious. Am I safe right now? Actually safe. People call it trusting your gut. Right? I gotta. I gotta trust my gut on this one. I don't feel safe. But I want to. I want to know why. Feelings like guilty and disappointment, those are important feelings, but they don't direct my day. Feelings of being motivated or not especially don't direct my day. I'm gonna go do the next right thing. I'm gonna feel that feeling along the way. I'm go do it. So when it comes to being a good partner, when it comes to being a good parent, I'm not going to try to match my do the next right thing with. And I want to feel good about it. I have to know that the action over and over and over will over time beget the good feelings. And even then, not all the time. Thanks for the question. Man. Come to money. Marriage is so great. Spend a whole weekend with me, Rachel Cruz. Lots of one on one time. All the questions are answered. It is a blast. And you will leave. I read the reviews. You will leave with a transformed marriage and a road map you guys. To go build an amazing life together. Peace out.