I Blew Up My Marriage, but I Want to Fix It

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: I Blew Up My Marriage, but I Want to Fix It
Date: March 11, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. John Delony takes live calls to explore real-life relationship and mental health struggles. The main theme centers around rebuilding trust and navigating personal transformation after serious marital setbacks. Callers address issues like emotional disconnects, personal growth after marital separation, redefining marital roles after healing, and negotiating major family decisions. Dr. Delony provides candid, empathetic advice, challenging the cultural myths around relationships and advocating for open, courageous conversations and self-reflection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Caller Jordan: Rebuilding a Marriage after Emotional Harm

[00:05 - 16:40]

Background & Admission

• Jordan and his wife have been separated for a year after three years of marriage; she left due to his emotional reactivity and controlling behavior.
• He admits to yelling, being dismissive in times of need (e.g., not helping during her flat tire), and generally making her feel emotionally unsafe.

Self-Reflection and Progress

• Jordan now feels deep regret and embarrassment, having explored his childhood roots and insecurities in therapy. He’s working with a counselor to build emotional awareness and healthier responses.

Ongoing Struggles

• The couple has slowly resumed contact, but there's lingering hurt and mistrust from his wife. Jordan feels stuck performing for her approval, unable to genuinely connect due to anxiety about making mistakes.

Dr. Delony’s Prescription

• "You have to have the courage to go to your wife who you wronged and say, 'I was wrong. I need a road map back to trust. And she gets to decide.'" (08:44)
  • Emphasizes humility and surrender—letting the wounded partner set conditions for rebuilding trust.
  • Critiques vague demands like “meet my emotional needs,” urging the need for concrete, communicated expectations.

Notable Framework (Terry Real's Model):

• [13:56]
  • State your experience.
  • Name the story you’re telling yourself about it.
  • Share your feelings.
  • Ask what’s next or propose a next step.
• Promotes total honesty, self-accountability, and joint responsibility for next steps.

Memorable Quote:
"That flywheel spins faster and faster... I got the solution for you... and I'm going to use words that are going to get me lit up on the Internet, but this is one of the boldest forms of courage there is."
—Dr. John Delony, [08:44]

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2. Caller Michelle: Identity Shifts & Recovery After Partner’s Healing

[18:42 - 34:15]

Background

• Michelle’s husband is undergoing neurofeedback for PTSD/ADHD, showing real improvement in mood and regulation.
• Their marriage has revolved around managing his dysregulation; she’s worried about losing her identity as the “fixer” and “people pleaser” now that he’s stabilizing.

Dr. Delony’s Advice

• Normalize her fear—partners can unconsciously sabotage healing to maintain their well-worn roles.
• Encourage curiosity and mutuality as the new foundation:
  • "How can I love you today?"—actively seek the other’s needs rather than anticipate or control.
• Use regular check-ins and co-create a new version of marriage together, rather than reverting to old routines.

Communication Tools

• Practice saying, “Tell me more about that.” Choose curiosity over judgment ([29:05]).
• When something lands poorly: “Can I say that in a different way?” or “Can you say that in a different way?”—promotes humility and openness.

Memorable Moments

• "The marriage you had is over. It doesn't exist anymore...You get to decide how this thing looks and rebuild it." —Dr. John Delony, [22:52]

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3. Caller Elizabeth: Negotiating Stay-at-Home Parenting & Marital Values

[35:59 - 54:00]

Background

• Elizabeth wants to stay home with her 4-month-old, but her husband fears losing her income (for flexibility, savings, future house, etc.). She feels alone, as their community mostly uses daycare.

Core Disagreements

• He frames the issue in financial/ROI terms; she feels this view dismisses her desire for time and presence with their child.
• His safety is anchored in financial stability; hers is anchored in time and developmental presence.

Dr. Delony's Framework

• Urges couples to have “real” conversations: What are our values? What scares us? What do we want to build from here?
• Staying united as a couple and building on shared values is more important than which specific path they choose.

Notable Quotes

• "The only way I knew how to love my wife well was to make as much money as possible... What I missed was I never asked her, 'Hey, how can I love you?'"
  —Dr. John Delony, [45:12]
• "Don't miss this time fantasizing and planning about another time in the future...Make great choices today."
  —Dr. John Delony, [53:24]

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4. Anonymous Listener: Communication Styles in Marriage

[54:00+]

Issue

• Listener struggles with communicating with a more direct spouse due to his own slower processing style.

Dr. Delony’s Solution

• Be honest about processing time; set clear expectations (“Do you want me to listen, or do you want advice?”).
• Offer a roadmap for communication needs. Don’t apologize for needing more time; it reflects depth and thoughtfulness.

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Notable Quotes & Defined Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• "Were you punching holes in the Sheetrock? Were you a yeller?...When you say you're emotionally reactive, what does that mean?" —Dr. John Delony ([02:39])
• "You could have blamed her, made fun of her, moved on. But at some point, you chose to look in the mirror and make some changes. I'm proud of you for that." —Dr. John Delony ([07:04])
• "When you say, 'the story I'm choosing to make up is you don't really want to get back together'...let that hang. Then she gets to address your story." —Dr. John Delony ([15:24])
• "Hollywood has told you, if your marriage is worth a crap, you'll already know what he needs and what he wants. Which is nonsense." —Dr. John Delony ([25:12])
• "You cannot make any more money to make me feel any safer or loved than I do right now. Any more money you make is for you and your ego." —Dr. John Delony quoting his wife ([46:32])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:05–16:40: Jordan’s marital harms, personal growth, and the roadmap for rebuilding trust
• 18:42–34:15: Michelle’s identity struggles as her partner heals, strategies for co-creating a new marriage
• 35:59–54:00: Elizabeth and her husband’s debate over stay-at-home parenting, reframing marital values
• 54:00–end: Listener question on communication styles; advice on tailoring connection

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Tone & Approach

Dr. Delony’s style remains direct, empathetic, and occasionally self-deprecating—equally challenging and affirming to callers. He discredits harmful cultural tropes about mind-reading in marriage, “emotional needs” as vague accusations, and the myth of perfect role performances. His advice is rich with frameworks, models, and practical, compassionate wisdom grounded in vulnerability and clear-headed realism.

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Summary Takeaways

• Repair in marriage requires humility, accountability, and clear, communicated blueprints for trust.
• Start fresh after any major shift—don’t cling to old marital "buildings;" design a new one together.
• Be wary of living on autopilot, old defense mechanisms, or societal scripts. Instead, choose curiosity, directness, and regular calibration.
• Choose unity over technical “correctness”; align on values rather than obsessing over life’s surface-level variables.
• Tailor communication to your real cognitive styles—don’t force connection through mismatched expectations.

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Listeners walk away with practical scripts, mindsets, and tools for navigating the messiest, most courageous conversations in marriage and family life.

Transcript

[Caller Jordan]

My wife and I, we've been separated for about a year now. We've been trying to work on things, but she has expressed that I'm not able to meet her emotionally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do you meet somebody else's emotional needs? And, man, I got some pretty bold opinions on that. What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. So glad you are here. Talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your marriages, whatever you got going on in your life, your kids, all of it. Love to have you on the show. Real people going through real challenges, trying to figure out what I do now, what I do next. I think we all need a dose of Exhale. Just some clear, honest conversations about what we can do next. You want to be on the show, go to john deloney.com/a S K. We take calls from all over the world. We do change your name, we do change your location once you'd be able to have a safe conversation here and see if we can get you on a new path. Let's go out to Vancouver, British Columbia, and talk to Jordan. Hey, Jordan. What's up?

[Caller Jordan]

Hey, John. How's it going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good, brother. What's up?

[Caller Jordan]

Oh, glad to take. Glad you could take my call. My question to you is my wife and I, we've been separated for about a year now, and we've been trying to work on things, but she has expressed that I'm basically that I'm not able to meet her emotionally and just would love to get your advice on how I can kind of meet her there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, man, there's a lot here. I want to get to this question because I think it's a fascinating question about how do you meet somebody else's emotional needs? And, man, I got some pretty. Pretty bold opinions on that. But let's back up for just a second. Give me some context here. How long y' all been married? Why. Why'd y' all get separated? All that?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, so we have been married for three years, and we got separated after, like, around two years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happened?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, I. I would say overall, like, I was very emotionally reactive and kind of controlling and I think and defensive. And I think she, at the end of the day, didn't feel safe being around me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Pause that for a second. The way you, the way you framed it was I was emotionally reactive, which might be true, but. Were you punching holes in the Sheetrock? Were you a yeller? Did you call her stupid? When you say you're emotionally reactive, what does that mean?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, I definitely like some yelling and also, I think, like, there are situations where, like, if I was upset, I would do things that, you know, I think. I think just, like, made her feel unsafe. Give me some examples emotionally. Like, you know, an example would be, like, when we. We got had, like, a conflict, and, you know, she was, like, driving after, and I was upset, and let's say her. Like, she had a flat tire one time, and she called me and said, you know, like, that she had a flat tire. And I kind of just was, like, upset and said, well, like, you know, you can just, like, figure it out. And I was just, like, upset. And. Yeah. Didn't. Couldn't help her. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I don't got much for you on that one, brother. So she finally said, enough. She moves out, or did you move out?

[Caller Jordan]

No, she did. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let me back up for a second. I don't leave you hanging. I hear in your voice, tell me if I'm wrong, and maybe you try to manipulate me. I hear that you are now a few years removed from that and you're embarrassed and humiliated by it.

[Caller Jordan]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller Jordan]

That was. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you dug into, A, the root of why you were acting that way, why you allowed her to set you off like that, and B, what have you done to change your levels of reactivity to get some space between stimulus and response?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. So I think, like, after. In the. In the past year or so, like, I have dug into kind of, I think, a lot of stuff just with my family and my upbringing. And I think a lot of it for me was like. I think there's, like, a kind of fear and, like, insecurity there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tremendous insecurity.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That was so fragile that anything would set it off. To the point you'd leave your wife on the side of the road to fend for herself. What have you done? What action steps have you taken to begin to fill that sense of fragility with concrete? I'm now somebody that someone else can anchor into.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah. So, like, a lot of work, I would say, with, like, reflecting around, like, my parents and, like, my. My upbringing, like, writing out a timeline of events in my life as well as, like, writing, like, a letter to my kind of younger self and, like, letters to, like, my parents. And also just, like, I've read a lot of books around kind of just, like, emotional, I guess, like, awareness and, like, recognizing kind of, like, what I'm feeling, like, in my body. And just, like, I think, yeah, like, being more aware of kind of, like, what I'm feeling. And then, like, kind of strategies around, like, how to, like, manage those feelings in healthy ways.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you working with a counselor on this?

[Caller Jordan]

I am, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amazing. So when you first started talking, I thought you were just, like, wandering around your neighborhood just thinking about stuff, but it sounds like you're actually practicing in real life. Okay. Can I just say, on behalf of men everywhere, I'm embarrassed for what happened in the past, and on behalf of men everywhere, I'm proud of the steps you're taking right now. Like, I want you to hear me say that I'm proud of you because you could have been like, a lot of folks and blamed her, made fun of her, and then gone on to the next person.

[Caller Jordan]

Well, I did blame her a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm saying it immaturely, but you would have moved on to the next. The next unsuspecting woman, and you just would have repeated this cycle. Right. But at some point, you chose to look in the mirror and make some changes, and I just want to tell you I'm proud of you for that.

[Caller Jordan]

Okay, I appreciate that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So have y' all started talking again? Have y' all started seeing each other again? Y' all move back in together? Y' all sleeping together again? Like, tell me what has happened in the last year or two?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, so we. Three months of not talking, and then kind of slowly since then, we've been hanging out more and more and, like, wanting. We've. And, like, talking and having conversations.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

And.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, I think there. We've had a lot of good conversations, but I also feel like there's, like. I mean, from. From her, there's still, like, a lot of, like, hurt and, like, mistrust and just, like, you know, feelings of not. Not feeling safe around me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Caller Jordan]

And for me, I feel like I'm often in kind of, like, a anxious, like, kind of performance, like, mode where I feel like I have to, like, say the right things and do the right things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Caller Jordan]

And so I think because of that, I feel like I'm not able to be as, like, present with her and, like, as, like, attuned to her and, like, kind of what she's, like, feeling in, like, in, like, a moment or, like, in a conversation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. And then that makes her feel unsafe, and she backs up, and then you start performing more and you feel more, and it just is a dance. Yeah. And that's. That flywheel spins faster and faster. All right, I got. I got the solution for you.

[Caller Jordan]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I rarely say it that boldly, but I got the Solution for you. Okay. All right. You have to have the courage to. And I'm going to use words that are going to get me lit up on the Internet, and people are going to call me a simp and call me weak and whatever. And I think this is actually one of the boldest forms of bravery and courage there is, is to go. To go to your wife who you wronged and say, I was wrong. I need a road map back to trust. And she gets to decide because you're. Because you're. You're dancing, you're trying to get her attention, and you're on a stage. I love that you said that you're performing. You don't know what play you're in. So you're just yelling out all the lines from the old Shakespeare plays that you know. Right. You're just, like, trying, like, is this it? Is this it? And it feels fake to you. It feels fake to her, which. To her body feels like, oh, he's not who I. I don't know him. I still don't know him. But when you say, I want a path back to trust. If she's interested in trusting you again, which a. She may not be. So this will clear up the whole thing. Then she gets to decide, here's what it will take for me to trust him again. And let me. Let me take it outside of your situation. Somebody cheats on somebody, what's the path back to trust? I want you to get rid of your iPhone and I want you to get a flip phone. I need for two months. I want to see all of your email codes. And we're going to share one single checking account. And then you get to decide whatever she lays out in front of you, am I going to walk that path or not? And it's. It's really that simple. But here's what that does. It forces her. And. And I. I have a. An emotional. Like, I just. It makes me feel icky. The phrase, you're not meeting my emotional needs. Because that is an often.99% of the time, it's an amorphous blob of goo.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That nobody. Nobody can grab. And it's her saying to herself, I'll know if this is okay to keep going forward because I'll feel a certain way. And feelings are so all over the place. Right.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I want her to be. And say that also I need a path to your emotional needs and especially emotional wants. She needs. And. And I say this a lot like, I think we overuse the word need. A lot in relationships, we're like, I need this. I need this. No, you don't. You want that, and that's great, but let's call it what it is. But I'll give her this one. She needs a husband who will pick her up off the side of the road. She doesn't need somebody that agrees with everything she says. She doesn't need somebody that will never fight with her. She wants those things, great. But she needs a husband who will show up. And so that's. That's a fair thing. But you asking, I need clarity on what are your emotional needs, and I need a roadmap to them.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah. I feel like there has been times where I've asked her, like, pretty specifically, and she has expressed to me, like she wants me to be able to, like, understand in a moment, like, what she's feeling and what she's, like, needing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And she. That's madness. That's Hollywood. But that's Hollywood. It's insanity. And. And I'm not saying she's insane. I'm saying the air, the culture has surrounded us with is madness. That somehow mind reading is love. Right. That somehow he'll just know because the. The famous actor X or Y or Z does on the show. And the moment he stops knowing, that means our relationship has, quote, unquote, run its course, which I think is just nonsense. It's trash. We have to. We're constantly changing. We're constantly learning new things, rethinking positions. What used to feel good doesn't feel good anymore. That's the amazing part about being in a relationship. But we have to communicate what those things are to our partner, period. And if we won't communicate it, I'm telling you right now, what you have is a football coach yelling at you, run the play. And you're like, I don't know what the play is. And he's just screaming, run the play. If you knew how to play football, you'd know the play. And you're like, okay, I'll hand it off. And he's like, what are you doing? Right. It's not fair. It's just. It's a. It's. You're in a position that you can't win. You might get lucky once in a while, but. But you can't win.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, that's what it feels like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So, yeah, Gosh, I feel like I'm. I'm saying this a lot on shows now. All just happen to be right in a row. I'm going to give you a framework, a Quick framework from Terence. Real, Terry. Real. Okay.

[Caller Jordan]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is the path forward. This is the most humble, honest, and integrous way forward. You ready? Tell her that you want to have a serious conversation, like, an honest conversation. Great. Cool. Sounds like y' all are there, right?

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so say number one, here's the experience I'm having. Number two, here's the story I'm making up about that experience. Number three, here's how I feel. And number four, either here's what I'm going to do next, or I'm asking you what you would like me to do next.

[Caller Jordan]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so what you would say in this position is, hey, we've been talking for three months. I'm all in on you and my experience. I'm struggling with the path forward. I want you to trust me again. I want to help meet your emotional wants and your emotional needs. I want. I've worked hard to change. And my experience is I don't know the path back to trust. The story I'm making up about that is. Is you're expecting me to read your mind, and I can't do that. And the other story I'm making up is you don't really want to get back together.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How I feel about that is I'm heartbroken. I have a hole in my stomach because I know I did you wrong and I'm trying so hard.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that is a. That. That pushes all of the truth on the table. You own all of it. I'm owning how my experience, I'm owning the stories I'm making up about you, about us, about me, and I'm owning how I feel about it. And then I've got hands open. What do we do next? And when you say the story I'm choosing to make up is you don't really want to get back together with me. You don't want to break up like. But you're done with the marriage. Let that hang. And then she gets to address the stories you made up.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

but. But compassion in rebuilding a marriage is. You have. I mean, you can't rebuild a building that's fallen over. Your marriage has fallen over. Your old marriage is gone. It's over. If y' all are going to rebuild the new marriage, you gotta have a blueprint for it. Right? A contractor just can't sit there and look at the client, and the client be like, if you're a good contractor, you would know where I want the bathroom or I want the building. You can't. You can't you can't function like that.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so again, I'll reiterate, I'm embarrassed for what was for all of us, for you, for her. But man, I'm proud of you for stepping back up. That has changed. That's masculinity. I'm proud of you. And now, man, we're going to open our hands and say, here's I need a map and I can't read your mind. And if she says, then I only want to be with someone who's going to read my mind. I mean, you can tell her it's not Harry Potter. That would be an emotionally immature response. So don't say that. But you can't read minds. Y' all gonna have some hard choices to make. I'm honored that you called, brother. Thanks for the call. Hope that helps. And holler back and let us know how the conversations go. We come back, a woman asks how her husband's neurofeedback therapy is going to affect their marriage. Hey, if you ever come over to my house, you're gonna find a whole bunch of cool stuff like guitars and hunting gear. But you're also gonna find one main theme. My family loves Cozy Earth. We love their sheets, their pajamas, their blankets, their towels. They've taken over our house. Why? Because Cozy Earth linens are incredible. They're comfortable and they last. Take the towels, for instance. When you wash the towels a couple of times, they don't just turn into old garage rags. They stay an amazing towel. And getting into my bed with Cozy Earth sheets chest makes me smile. Seeing my wife and my daughter light up while they're wearing their pajama sets. That also makes me smile. And listen. On all of the Cozy Earth sheets and towels, they offer a hundred night trial and a 10 year warranty. So there's no risk to filling your house with Cozy Earth gear. Try it for yourself. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney and you'll save up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozyearth.com DeLONEY use code DeLoney. Trust me. Bring Cozy Earth into your home. You're going to love it. All right, let's go to Indianapolis, Indiana and talk to Mama Shell. What's up? Michelle?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Hi. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm great. How are you?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

I'm well, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. So what's up?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

So I'm calling because I hear you in your introductions.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

A lot of times say the wheels,

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

wheels coming off of relationships.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

But have you ever had a caller

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Ask you what happens when the wheels go back on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I like this. What's good? So tell me all about it.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Well, my husband's going through neurofeedback treatment for ptsd, adhd, and other nervous system dysregulation. He had a lot of abuse in his past. Physical, emotional, all kinds. He's found an amazing clinic. It's awesome. He's had nine treatments out of 40, and it's going super well so far. I'm super excited for him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How is it? How is it? I'm fascinated by this because I hear some. That it's just junk, bunk nonsense. I hear some people have miraculous recoveries. What's he doing?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

So they said there wouldn't be a huge amount of change or, you know, visible change for probably about 10 appointments.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

But he's.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

He's so much happier.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

He's.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

His moods are more regulated.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

We have two six year olds.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

He has a lot of patience, a lot more patience than he had before. He's not ruminating as much about things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you're seeing like real time change?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yes, yes.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

And it's super exciting. But I have. We have built our marriage around, basically, me working around his dysregulation. And I've. I've learned how to anticipate, regulate, adjust, and hold things together. So I guess my problem is I don't know how much of my identity is me versus who I need it to be for our relationship to just function.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you, Are you a fixer?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

I am. And I'm a people pleaser. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The deadly duo. Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah. So part of me is afraid that when he gets better, I won't know what my role is anymore.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to tell you, I would high five you. I mean, because here's what. Here's what happens very regularly. Okay. Somebody gets. Well, somebody loses 60 pounds.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Somebody goes to the doctor and gets their hormones regulated. Men and women. Right.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the other partner loses their role. They lose their identity. And so what do they do? They create, consciously or unconsciously, things to solve.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yes.

[Caller Jordan]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you catching yourself already?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

I am, yeah. And I'm kind of worried about being left behind. I kind of equated it to what you just mentioned about weight loss. Like two best friends, one loses 100 pounds and the other one's still heavy. You know, been there, done that too. One goes on with a happy life and then you get kind of get left behind. And I don't mean left behind like, I think he'll leave me, but I feel like, you know, we're. We're going to be building a life around instead of me managing things, it's more built around mutuality.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so co creation. That feels.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah. Super, super hopeful, but also very scary for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Okay. So if you look at this moving forward as a new skill to learn, it will set you free.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you look at this as a character defect or a flaw or a moral issue, it'll bury you.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

That makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what do I mean by that in real terms? If you find yourself saying, I should be, or I've got to let you, or I need to, that will crush you.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you say, oh, man, I've never shot a free throw before and I just totally airballed that one. Dude, I gotta keep practicing.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You'll just get back on the line and shoot more free throws.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so the way this happens. Dude, I love this is one of my favorite questions. I've gotten a long time. I love this is. This is a perfect opportunity. I've talked about this ad nauseam on the show for y' all to get away. Like, the marriage you had is over. It doesn't exist anymore.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And even if y' all want to do something cheesy like get a Jenga tower and just knock it over on purpose and say, okay, we get to decide how this thing looks re. And rebuild it. And yeah, for me and my wife, this isn't the question for everybody, but for our house, the. The question that changed everything for us is how do you want this house to feel when you come home every day?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he might say something like, I want to come home and not feel like your fourth kid. I want to come home. And you're happy that I'm home. Yeah, I want to come home. And you're not staring at your phone, but you greet me with a hug or like, whatever.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then y' all reverse engineer. Okay. Then here's what must be true. And then you say, here's what. How I want our house to feel when I get home.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And y', all, y' all build that world. And you both know we've never built this like this before. And so it's got to be clumsy. And we're going to give each other grace. And if best we can, we'll laugh. And for me and my wife, we still to this day, we have weekly check ins. How are we? How can I love you today? We set a goal this year. And how you see me holding up my end of the bargain? What's your reflection with me.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Right. All right. Right.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Do you think that it's possible for his love to change for me? Because there's. Because I'm not taking care of him anymore. And he's so used to that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you asked him?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

No. And he would tell me no.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

He would tell me no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. But there's one more question beneath that.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you're a caretaker, when you're a people pleaser, it is your job. And you probably learned this as a little girl. I have to anticipate the emotional stability of the people around me before they do so that we can all stay safe.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

100.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you have a radar that is going off all the time. Right.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Constantly. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you have to practice is.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Setting. Turn the radar off and looking at him and saying this scary question. How can I love you today?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And when your whole identity has been, I will know how to love you. And by the way, Hollywood has told you, if your marriage is worth a crap, you'll already know what he needs and what he wants. Which is nonsense.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then you. It's. It's an act of submission. I. I wish there was another word, because that's a gross word, but it's like. It's you setting down your previous weapons of choice and saying, how can I love you today?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Which is scary. It's terrifying that those weapons down.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, because. Because for your whole life, that's kept you unsafe. If you asked that question seven months ago, he would have said, I want Twinkies for breakfast. And if you really loved me, we would have sex all day, and then we'd have a large pizza and we'd have beers, and then he'd forget he even asked that stuff. And you're thinking, we have to feed our children. Right. All right.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you have to go to a job. And now. So that. That, that. That defense mechanism kept y' all safe.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And now that same defense mechanism will bury him.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And in burying him, I can tell you love him. It'll bury you, too.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

There's a lot of love.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

It's.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

It's been hard, but I wouldn't. Wouldn't have stuck around if it. If I didn't love him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

And I knew he always. He's always been searching for something to make him, quote, unquote, better. And he got in touch with this clinic, and it's honestly been a godsend for us. And I'm really excited for him if

[Dr. John DeLoney]

it works for y' all for a long time. So excited. Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah. But I'm Just, you know, it's going to change the dynamic. And so it's. Anytime something changes, even if it's ugly, it's comfortable. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, and we marry what we know.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We marry what we are comfortable with, even if it's very uncomfortable. Right? So.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's, it's. I got friends from up north and they're like, man, I'm used to growing up and it was minus 40 degrees in the winter and I'm from Texas and if it gets 60, the whole city shuts down, the state shuts down. Right. And it's like, that was not comfortable, but it's what they know. Right? Right. And so, yeah, similarly, here's the most important path for y' all a is setting up routines, whether it's once a week, once a morning, especially at the beginning, for how can I love you and how can you love me?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And trusting each other and then having a path for. And this is what takes a lot of practice, him looking at you and saying, I didn't like that.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you not shutting down. You not going all the way back and being a nine year old girl again.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you saying, cool, I got more data. Sorry, I feel bad. How can I love you?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you practicing saying to yourself, his vote matters as much as mine.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

He spent a lot of time in our marriage saying, nobody listens to me.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Whatever.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

I suggest you guys just do it. Do it a different way or. Because I'm just so used to like, just doing and being, you know, And. And so I guess I discredited his thought processes a lot because they were brought on by anger or fear or his experiences. And I thought that they were not as good as mine, maybe. And so now I'm. I'm finding myself, like, backtracking and having more patience for his thought processes and initiative, which I've never done before. And it's hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Two words can guide you. Or three, curiosity over judgment. Okay, one simple question. Tell me more about that.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's a humbling moment for you because you've survived on having to be right, having to sift and filter through tons of emotional data flying at you a million miles an hour from a million different directions and make a call and go. And now you're gonna have to practice saying, I might be wrong on this. And that's okay because we are deciding where we are going.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me more about that. Or getting to a place now where my wife will say, like, that doesn't feel right to me at all, what you just said. And I'm not gonna go, what? I'll be like, okay, let me see if I can say it in a better way. Right.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

And I've never been able to say those things to him because he does get really defensive. And. Yeah. So I've found him lately being more open to hearing me. And if I'm curious about something, he'll. He'll say, oh, I understand why you thought that, but that's not what I was meaning, or, you know, something like that. So it. That's probably good if I just am totally transparent with. With those things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Jefferson Fisher gave me a line one time that was really transformative for me. As I'm saying something, when I say it and I know it doesn't land or it's not landing or it just came out how I said I didn't mean to say it that way or whatever. A quick line to follow up with is, can I say that in a different way?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or if somebody you know loves you and cares about you says something that just stabs you in the guts, but you know they wouldn't do that on purpose. If you can exhale and say, can you say that in a different way?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the most generous interpretation of what just happened. And you're already asking for a, let's try again because we're practicing.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if he says, hey, we need to quit eating chicken because they're putting poison in the chicken, we need to start eating eggs or whatever. And you can say, tell me more about that. Well, I read this article, like, on whatever, whatever, whatever, and they said that, like, huh. I have not heard that. Right, Right. And Right. And it's like, like, can we let that settle for a bit? Okay.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or I'm gonna continue to eat chicken. But I will love the fact that you were drawing a line here. Cool. On you. I'll let you know ahead of time when I'm making chicken for us and the kids. My kids aren't eating chicken. Okay. I'm gonna cook chicken. You. I'll let you know when you'll be responsible for dinner with you and the kids.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's great. I didn't eat carbs for years, and my wife would just make me a side dish of. She just wouldn't put my meat in the noodles or whatever.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

It was right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Took her one extra second. It was cool.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I felt so seen.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I was being ridiculous. I was being stupid, like, but in my head at the time I was. I was on it, I. I understand big, big, big food. I know what's happening. And I was. I was. It just was what it was, but it was this curious. Tell me more about that. And often, if. I don't know if he's like me, but I'll talk myself and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk, and then I'm like, okay, that's stupid.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

I just land the plane, Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

He just. I think he just, at this point is, you know, if I. If I question too much, he gets. He gets really defensive and in that type of thing. But I see him coming out of that. I see him being more interested in why I'm questioning it or trying to work with me instead of against me. This neurofeedback thing is the most bizarre thing I've ever encountered with anyone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's got. It's got. Huberman calls it anecdata. It's. I mean, you got people who are like, it changed my life. Ah. And then you've got other people who are like, yeah, okay. And so, like, if. If. Like, I'm to a point now where. If it's working for you and your family. Awesome. That's amazing.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good for y'. All. Good for y'.

[Caller Jordan]

All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, hey, I. It's too early to announce it here. I have a thing coming out. It will be out in time for Christmas. It is a it. It would be exactly what you need right now. It's just not built yet. But they're building it as we speak for couples to get together and just on a yearly basis say, all right, it's time to rebuild our marriage. And it's amazing. But that's. Let's get away for four hours. Let's swipe the deck. Let's say, all right, we get to build a new marriage. What do we love about our old one? What do we want to be different about this one? How do you want to be different? How do I want to be different? How do you want to experience me different? What do you want this house to feel like?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then let's put in some concret action steps on the calendar to get it going. It's awesome, man. I'm proud of you guys. I'm proud of you guys.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Thank you.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When we come back, a woman asks how to convince her husband to let her be a stay at home mom to their new baby. Buckle up. This show is sponsored by Better Help. I have had some amazing mentors and friends who are also amazing women. But one of the common themes I hear from all of the women who have poured into me over the years is that between caring for people and all of the other responsibilities and expectations that the whole world dumps on them, women are under an incredible amount of pressure every minute of every day. And often they're encouraged to overlook their own emotional well being for the care of others. Therapy can be a place where you learn how to set healthy boundaries and how to create some sort of balance and support and overall well being for yourself and for those that you love and care about. To do this, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. With over 30,000 therapists, they have the right person for you. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Listen, your emotional well being matters. Find support in therapy today. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney let's go to Minnesota and talk to Elizabeth. What's up? Elizabeth?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Hi. How's it going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing great. How are you?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

I'm doing well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's going on?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, so I'm calling because basically my husband and I have a four month old daughter, our first. And we're trying to decide if I should quit my job to be a stay at home mom. So I would like to be a stay at home mom. And my husband is not sold on the idea quite yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow. Okay, so what's, what's the crux of the disagreement here? Is it, is it financial? Is it you're not going to do anything? What is it?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

I think it's pretty, pretty strictly financial. So it's not necessarily a matter of like can we afford our lifestyle. If I quit my job, we both kind of will acknowledge that we probably could still kind of live the same way off my husband's income. It's more. So he's looking at it as giving up my income or he kind of looks at my income as it would be nice to have in the bank as security and just building our savings as well as a future down payment on our next home. So kind of more just an opportunity cost thing of him kind of thinking that money is hard to, hard to give. Give up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And so is time.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so are little giggles and first steps and all of that, too, right?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah. So that's definitely kind of in my. My rebuttals to. In this. In these conversations. You know, if he's kind of bringing up the money side of things, that's kind of my thoughts, too, is I don't want to give up time, really, with my daughter. One kind of piece of context is we have discussed that we would. Or he'd be more comfortable with it after our next kid just because then the cost of daycare would double, and it would be, you know, more financially, I guess, feasible to him. But then kind of my rebuttal to that is just, you never know how long it takes to have a second kid. And, you know, I don't know if I want to give up any time with my daughter, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here the challenge for you all is y' all have. Y' all are fighting a proxy, then y' all need to get to the real issue.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's hard. Couples will fight for years to avoid talking about the real, real issue.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it sounds like. Well, there's several issues here. They're just off top of my head. And feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Okay? I love. I love it when I'm wrong. There's part of you. I. I'm guessing here that there's part of you that while you're holding your baby and you hear your husband reduce that interaction to an roi, to a down payment on a future home that we may or may not even buy one day, there is a part of you, or maybe a lot of you, that looks at him and says, I don't. I can't. I can't understand you.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, there's definitely some of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's. It's. It will. If you allow yourself to truly feel it, there's almost a. How dare you.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the other side of it is he's looking at you and saying, do you not see this is his lived experience inside of his chest? Do you not understand what's happening in this culture economically right now? If you have a job, hold on to it with all of your mice, all of your teeth, and do not let it go, because who knows what's coming next?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Right? Yep. I can see that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So he's looking at you saying, you're crazy. I had a babysitter. You went to daycare. We're fine, but we might not be fine.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yep. And I think that's. Speaking of, like, going to daycare, Another kind of piece of context is for whatever Reason we don't really know anyone else who has, who is a stay at home mom or stay at home parent. I don't know if it's like a location thing or what, but I think that's kind of why it's a little harder for him to wrap his head around the idea. Just like if everyone else is doing. Kids are doing so well in daycare, like, what's, what's the. Like, why would we need to not do that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

So I think that plays into it as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but that's like, you know, hey, look, my buddy's wife lost ten pounds. Why aren't you? I mean, that's a terrible way to live your life, right?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Does he, does he struggle with anxiety a little bit.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

He, I'll say he's like a very, he's like hyper productive. He's always kind of wanting to get things done and he's like the opposite of lazy. I don't know if that really plays into anxiety, but he does think about money a lot. And again, it's not really in a sense of like, oh, we can't afford the mortgage or we can't afford this more. So just like, oh, if we, you know, if we wouldn't have had to fix the car, we would have x amount more money in the, in the bank and kind of just you know, doesn't like the thought of losing money or having less.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it sounds like that's where he's anchored into. The source of safety is a number in a bank account.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Caller Jordan]

And I've, I've been there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I will tell you from personal experience and from sitting with a jillion people, that number is a, it's a, it's an ever moving finish line.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now he's considering a down payment for a house y' all haven't even started looking for yet. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then after you get that down payment, then it will be like, well, we need the bunker ranch. Like, it will never stop.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. And I've kind of tried to get, get specifics, like, okay, what exactly is it we wouldn't be able to afford if I don't go back to work? And you know, we can never really come to specifics. Just he's pretty blessed with his job. So like, I just, I have a hard time seeing like how our lifestyles would be super different even if, if I do quit my job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, but you're, you're trying to solve a math problem and he's trying to solve a hole in his chest problem.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's trying to feel safe extrinsically outside.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. And I. And that's something too, I think about, like. Oh, I, you know, I know it's. I would love to prevent him from being stressed too, because, yeah, like, if you lose a sleep over things like this or just thinking of money, you know, obviously that's not a great, great thing to do either. So kind of trying to balance, like, what's best for our family and what is going to, like, set us both up for success. And.

[Caller Jordan]

Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

So I, I think we both couldn't live with.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have a four month old. So here's, here's the best path forward. It's very similar to. I've told a caller earlier on the show. How long have y' all been married? Total?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

A year and a half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, so y' all are new. New, New into this thing?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, we've been together like six years, but yeah, married a year and a half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so already you're in two new relationships within two years. So y' all dated for five years. Y' all got married. You were married for what, nine months and you got pregnant or six months and you got pregnant or.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so then, yet now you have a four month old. The marriage you had is over, doesn't exist.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What most people do is they spend all of their energy trying to either get back what was or perhaps prepare for what might be someday.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they never just set in the middle and say that we get to build this life right now. And so, yeah, I'll recommend with you what I recommend with everybody. I do this in my house. This is how much I believe in it, is calling that out. The marriage we had is over. We get to decide who we are going to be together when it comes to money, to time, more importantly, to values, to what scares us, to what excites us. We get to. We get to create that. We get to create our new dating life, our new romance life, our new sex life, our new sleep routines. We get to do all of that. And then we get to decide how we are going to parent this kid. And when you do it that way, think of it like if you're building a new house, the contractor sits down with a couple. There's a. I have a buddy who had a contractor. Sit down. They actually sent the. The husband and the wife qu. A quiz, like an online quiz. And they filled it all out and then they said like, boom, this is the house we thinks for you. And they Were dead on. It was awesome. But it's like, okay, what do you value? What do I value? And yeah, if he is a plugged in. Want to love my wife well, husband. Which he sounds like he does.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Often. I'll. I'll just speak from my personal experience. The only way I knew how to love my wife well was to make as much money as possible, to work 24 7, 365, so that if anything came up unexpected, we could handle it.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, that seems super. That's really sounds like him, too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well. And what I missed was I never asked her, hey, how can I love you? Because she would have said, hey, we have six months of an emergency fund. We don't owe anybody any money. You could really love me by just watching TV with me, by going to this museum with me.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, Definitely. Relatable, for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so your voice matters here. And you letting him know, I love you. I'm so lucky I get to be married to you. How do you want this house to feel when you walk in every day? There will come a moment when he's going to have to put on his big boy pants and say, here is the number in the bank that I'm okay with my wife. One day I've told the story on the show. She met me in the garage, and it was a big showdown we had. But she said, the amount of how much I love you and the amount of money you make is full.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You cannot make any more money to make me feel any safer than I feel right now. You cannot make any more money to make me feel any more loved or seen or known than I do right now. And then she followed it up with, so any more money you make is for you and your ego.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I was like, whoa, right.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that was an important call out for me. And I was like, oh, then how do I. And then she said the scary, terrifying thing. Hey, we have enough. And then I realized I don't have a psychology for enough.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay. Yeah, that. I mean, that sounds super relatable to our kind of dynamic, too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She drew a pie chart and just showed, like, one of the pie pieces was money. And she says that she colored in. She goes, that one's full.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay. Yeah, Yeah, I like that way of framing it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And. But what was. What was still empty was quality time. What was still empty was presence. You're at our house, but you're not here. You're somewhere else. You're in the markets. You're writing a New book. You're thinking about a speech you're going to give someday. I want you here. Or you're sitting by me but you're scrolling on the phone while we're watching a. Like you're watching your little screen with your medium sized screen in your lap and we're watching a big screen together. Like that's. You're not with me.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Right, right. Yeah, totally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so all the way back to this conversation is this isn't a money issue for you guys. Some people are in a situation where somebody really wants to stay at home economically. We have to have 2s, 2 salaries, 2 incomes. It doesn't sound like y'. All.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, no, yeah, that's, that's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What he needs to hear is unequivocally, I value time with this child. Developmentally, I think it's going to be better for our kid. I can't imagine sitting in an office making money to pay for somebody else to raise my kid. And so here is what I am proposing. This looks like. And maybe it's all work part time.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you stating a value, it is a core value of mine that we are the chief development officers of our child.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely something I think about a lot. Just because, you know, if you go out looking for any opinion online, you can find something that supports your thoughts and something against it. So that's right. Just always thinking about like, is daycare good for kids or is it, you know, better to have a stay at home mom? So things like that, if you have information, people have done that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, the people have not talked openly about that data because there's a whole swath of people that have no other choice. The research is clear on it. It's clear. The challenge with it is it can be so. It can be so hard to hear if you're forced into a situation where it's necessary.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so people just don't talk about it.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And I mean, even just, I mean, you know, without running any real studies, you can just think about it. And the daycare we're thinking about. Yeah, it's a common sense A few times.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Common sense. I mean, it's just, it's just common sense. It's common sense.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like. And then, you know, I kind of start to question myself, like, okay, well, if it's such, you know, it seems like common sense to me. If you can afford it and you want to do it, you should. But it's like, well, why is no one I know doing this? So I don't know if it's just a cultural thing or what, but that kind of gets in my head.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

People make choices. They get to make choices.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would rather this life, this house, this career, the status, this identity. I'd rather all these things than this other thing.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or people simply have to have two incomes because X, Y, or Z. Or we have to have two incomes because we want these cars in the driveway and we want this house on our driver's license. And so I don't want to trade a smaller house way outside of town for, like, if people. People just make trades. And that's why it's such a big deal to me that people take 100 full percent ownership of the choices they make.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's kind of another thing we've talked about, is just like, choices. Making choices is because the money, you know, if we do want to buy a house, we want to buy a house kind of out in the country. And, you know, an argument there would be raising our kids a certain type of way with certain experiences. So that's kind of something we talk about, is even if we do save money doing one thing, it's, you know, could be beneficial for the kids in the other way. So, yeah, definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's. Have all those choices, underneath poverty, underneath rural, or all these different variables we put up there. What's going to be best? What's going to be best? What's going to be best? Two parents on the same page who are stable, period.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you'll live in the country and y' all are united and your. Your kids have a stable presence where they're known and loved, they're gonna be great and be fine, and they're gonna have problems because their kids are gonna do dumb, stupid stuff. They're gonna break their arms. Like, that's life. Right. Someone's gonna break their heart. There's that. And if you live in a big city and there's a stable place that we're anchored into that we call home underneath all these other factors.

[Caller Jordan]

All right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so we can get so caught up in what's the. Right, this. And if we go to this, this. And, man, I'm more convinced than ever that a husband like. Like a. Like a true marriage, you and me ride or die anchored in same values. We don't have to agree on everything. In fact, it's best if we don't agree on everything. But we. We don't share the same Beliefs. We got the same values. Right, man. Then you can kind of do what you kind of live where you want. I've lived in the woods on some acreage with my kids. I now live in the city with my kids. I. They're my kids. You know what I mean? They're crushing. They're. They're doing fine, and they have struggles and challenges like every other kid.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth's Husband]

That's good to hear.

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

The piece about just, you know, united Parents is kind of number one, because I definitely feel like wherever. Whatever we end up doing, it'll, you know, we'll. We'll come to a healthy decision and. Yeah, stay united in that decision. So that's reassuring to hear.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. It's. It's. It's amazing. And I. What I don't want you to do, which is, again, this is a cautionary tale. I'm probably 10 years down the road ahead of you. Don't miss this time fantasizing and planing about another time in the future that. Who knows, 10 years from now for y', all. That's two presidential. That's three. Three presidential elections from now. Really?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Really?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just read a thing today that Elon announced they're. They're launching data centers in space. Right. Like, really?

[Caller Michelle / Elizabeth]

That's wild.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not planning anything. I. I am gonna make great choices today. I'm. I'm gonna do something. I. I'm not trying to be presumptuous here, and I'm not using this word in any sort of clinical sense at all, but I'm going to send you a copy of the book I wrote called Building a Non Anxious Life. I'm not in any way saying you or your husband have clinical anxiety in any shape, form, or fashion, but some of the challenges I've experienced. I mean, it sounds like your husband's running my playbook, man, and I know what that feels like. And so I wrote the book for him and for people who love guys like him. And so I'm gonna send it to you. Stay on the line here, and we'll get you hooked up and I'll mail it to you. It would be awesome if y' all both read it, because where. If I just get this thing in the bank, if I just get this house, if I just get this piece of land, then. Then my body will go, ah. It's just not how it works. There's actually another path to take if you're looking for peace, and it's from the inside out, and it's hard and it's countercultural. And I wrote a book for it. So hang on the line here. I'm really grateful for the call. Let's don't talk about the money part. Y' all are fine. Let's don't talk about the daycare stuff, the kid number two. Let's have a real conversation, which is, hey, we have a whole new marriage one and a half years in, we got a brand new marriage. We get to decide what this looks like. And the foundation. We build it on, the values we build it on. We got to put all that on the table. We got to be open. We got to be honest. Let's be curious. Let's unite on those values, and then we'll go build. Build something awesome. Hey, what's up? It's Deloney. So we're in the middle of Lent right now. And whether you grew up with that tradition or you're just trying to get your head and your heart back on straight this season, there's something I want you to check out. It's called Hallow. It's the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world, and it's honestly become one of the most important things I do to start my day. Anchoring my day in prayer helps me slow down and prioritize what matters to me before the world swallows me up. And right now, we're in the middle of Hallows Lint Pray 40 challenge. And if you've given something up and you're barely hanging on, or if you want to learn more about what this whole Lent thing is all about, this challenge is for you. Hallow is loaded with daily reflections, scripture, music, and other special series to help you anchor your faith in practice. You can try Hallow for free for three whole months by using my link. Go to hallow.com deloney today and sign up for three months of Hallow. Follow for free. All right, we're back. I've got a money in marriage anonymous question. A question that somebody left at the money and marriage retreat that me and my friend Rachel Cruz put on a few times a year. Here's the question that was left. How can I be a better communicator with my wife when I am more of a thinker? She is very direct and quick to reply, so I feel like I can't be as good at talking with her. I feel like I'm kind of broken or maybe come off is not fully present. This is my house. Just I talk a lot and real fast and fly and pew, pew, pew, pew. And my wife is a way more emotionally stable and more thoughtful. And she hears a problem and ruminates on it and thinks on it, and then we'll come up with a more concrete answer. So a great gift she gave me is. Or this is years ago, is when I start talking about a subject, she will ask, do you want me to listen or do you want me to. My opinion on it. And if you want my opinion on it, I'm gonna need to think about it. She just stopped the conversation. What I realized is a. I was kind of looking for a sparring match a little bit. I was kind of looking to get it, like, a quick win. I wasn't looking to engage or connect with my wife. I was looking to just kind of get a little and then move on. And so it stopped me. And so if I want to be a better communicator, I need to seek to connect with the person, understand, acknowledge them. Jefferson says. So being a better communicator is telling the other person, here's a path to me. I'm going to allow you to see and know me. Whenever we start talking about big issues, politics, money, sex, all that, I want to fully absorb it, and it just takes me a while to process it. I wish I was faster, but I'm not, so that's cool. So if we. If you want to talk about a big issue, tell me about it ahead of time, kind of what we're thinking about, and then I'll come ready and prepared and ready to rock and roll. My wife, when we had big conversations, she bring notes. It's awesome. It's. She's so prepared. She'll bring notes, she'll bring talking points. She'll listen to a podcast or two about it like, she's ready to rock and roll. I love that. But it was her telling me, here's what I need. If you want to connect, if you want to fight, I don't want to fight. If you want to just, like, steamroll me with your facts and your directness, I'm. I rather just opt out of that, and that was a great challenge for me. So how do you communicate better with your wife? You're not broken, just got a different computer. And you may be looking to connect during conversations, and your wife may be looking just to whap each other back and forth for a minute and then go on about the day. So give her a direct roadmap on how she can best communicate you with you on big things and on the little things. And don't apologize for your processing speed. It may not be as fast, but it's probably deeper and more thoughtful. We need way more of that.