I Feel Inferior to My Girlfriend

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show — "I Feel Inferior to My Girlfriend"

Podcast: The Dr. John Delony Show, Ramsey Network
Date: May 22, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony
Episode Theme: Navigating Emotional and Mental Health Hurdles in Relationships & Friendships

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. John Delony takes calls from listeners grappling with issues in relationships, self-worth, anxiety, and friendships. The featured segments include:

• Michael from Boise struggles with insecurity and resentment stemming from income differences with his girlfriend.
• Faith from Tulsa seeks help for anxiety linked to pregnancy fears following her husband’s vasectomy and revisits deep-seated childhood trauma.
• Haley from Indianapolis navigates the emotional complexities of a friendship with a college “little sister” who exhibits concerning behavior.

Dr. John consistently returns to themes of self-reflection, curiosity over judgment, honest conversation, and the ongoing work of mental and emotional growth.

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1. Segment 1: Navigating Income Differences in a Relationship

[00:21 – 16:50] Michael’s Call

Key Discussion Points

• Michael’s Situation:

  • Grew up in a modest, middle-class, two-income Southern home.
  • His 24-year-old girlfriend, from the West Coast, was raised by a single parent, had college paid for, and now earns $120k–$140k in tech sales vs. his $70k in operations/customer service.
  • Feels frustration, insecurity, and even resentment about their financial differences despite not wanting to feel that way, especially as his girlfriend occasionally jokes about him “needing to make more.”

• Dr. John’s Approach: Ego, Stories, and Curiosity

  • Challenges Michael to explore why he feels inferior: “Somehow you think your experience was more real growing up than hers, and at the same time, you feel less than dating somebody that makes more money than you.” (03:08)
  • Highlights that Michael is actually quite successful for his age and questions whether his girlfriend truly makes him feel small or if it’s an internal narrative.

• Anchoring Conversations to Values

  • Dr. John suggests Michael root money conversations in shared values and financial goals, rather than dollar amounts:

    • “If you can learn this now, you’ll be free the rest of your life… Feelings are important. They’re good data, but they don’t tell us the truth.” (06:12)

  • Recommends honest, upfront communication:

    • “If she's with you and says, ‘Hey, let's go to this restaurant,’ and you say, ‘I want to pay and here’s what I can afford, let’s go to this one,’ and she’s like, ‘Oh, gross, I don’t want to,’ then she might not be the girl for you.” (08:58)

• Addressing Upbringing and Judgments

  • Encourages Michael to “focus on curiosity, not judgment” concerning differences in spending habits.
  • Encourages gratitude for what each partner brings and to avoid competitiveness over who’s “superior” because of their financial past.

Notable Quotes

• “I would love it if my wife made twice as much money as me. That would rule. But I’m also anchored in her and I are ride or die.” — Dr. John (08:32)
• “People can be as proud of the things they don’t have as those who live in excess are of the things they do have.” — Dr. John quoting Rich Mullins (15:00)
• “Check your ego at the door and get real curious about the stories you’re making up.” (16:36)

Actionable Advice

• Write out narratives or “stories” you’ve made up about yourself and your partner regarding money.
• Talk openly about your backgrounds, anxieties, and expectations—frame it as a collaborative exploration, not accusations.
• Acknowledge internal feelings of inferiority or judgment, but make decisions based on gratitude and personal values.

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2. Segment 2: Trusting a Husband’s Vasectomy & Healing Childhood Trauma

[22:27 – 41:18] Faith’s Call

Key Discussion Points

• Faith’s Challenge:

  • Despite her husband’s successful vasectomy, she remains trapped by paralyzing anxiety rooted in fear of pregnancy, in part because a failed pregnancy could trigger severe medical and psychological consequences for her.
  • Her anxiety is heightened by past postpartum anxiety, physical health crises, and unresolved trauma from a restrictive, cult-like, and legalistic upbringing.

• The Interplay of Mind, Body & Trauma

  • Faith describes “knowing” cognitively that she is safe but feeling unsafe in her own body—a division Dr. John acknowledges by describing his own “body work” therapy.
  • “As your mind thinks it's getting closer and closer to this faith that you want to have, your body remembers. Your 13-year-old nervous system is still driving…” (29:19)

• Practical Steps and Reframing

  • Dr. John suggests that the goal is less about rationalizing or finding more information, and more about “practicing safety, not practicing thinking.” (36:00)
  • Encourages Faith to write a “love letter to her body,” recognizing it is working diligently to keep her safe in the only way it knows.
  • Recommends trauma-informed therapy, specifically pursuing “body-based” approaches like EMDR, somatic therapy, or “body work.”
  • Provides grounding techniques: When anxiety spikes, pause and ask, “What are you trying to protect me from?” and schedule “worry time” for later, thereby re-establishing her own agency.

Notable Quotes

• “I want you to practice feeling safe. Not practice thinking.” — Dr. John (36:00)
• “If you marry what’s safe, it will feel uncomfortable to your body.” — Dr. John (34:31)
• “All of this is practicing autonomy. Agency. I'm driving.” — Dr. John (41:19)
• “There is peace on the other side of this practice. It's worth it.” — Dr. John (41:21)

Actionable Advice

• Practice self-compassion; treat your body as an ally, not an adversary.
• Use somatic techniques alongside cognitive reframing.
• Ground yourself not just in thoughts but by experiencing safety and support through trusted loved ones and professional, body-based therapy.

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3. Segment 3: Deciding Whether to Stay Friends with Someone Who Lacks Integrity

[44:14 – 55:37] Haley’s Call

Key Discussion Points

• Haley’s Dilemma:

  • Deeply connected with a college “little sister” who she mentored and views as family.
  • The friend lied, engaged in multiple instances of cheating, and responded to Haley’s honest confrontations by cutting her out of key aspects of her life.

• Dr. John’s Perspective: The Nature of Friendship

  • Reframes the issue, emphasizing that loyalty can only be built on honesty and accountability:
    • “She’s not a good friend to you. She lied to your face multiple times.” (46:43)
  • Challenges Haley to ask herself why she clings to this friendship, exploring themes like loss aversion, codependency, and fear of being disliked or abandoned.

• Letting Go and Grieving

  • Encourages Haley—and listeners—to “take the rose-colored glasses off”:
    • “Of course respond to her messages, of course send her happy birthday, but let the relationship be what it is... It’s a glorified text message relationship.” (55:58)
  • Calls out the transition from college to adulthood, urging her to “get your foot out of the college boat” and invest in current, reciprocal relationships.

Notable Quotes

• “She doesn’t want your advice on her love life. She doesn’t want your advice on her character. She doesn’t want your advice on her integrity. That’s not a friendship. That’s a person I used to know.” — Dr. John (49:31)
• “This is a big huge distraction from feeling grief. You lost a good friend, you did the right friend thing and your friend said, ‘I'm out.’ That’s grief. That's sadness. And you're right to feel sad.” (52:07)
• “Let’s spend our energy finding people to do life with, moving forward, not trying to hang on to what we had.” (55:58)

Actionable Advice

• Recognize and mourn what has been lost; grieve rather than chase validation from those who've withdrawn.
• Choose friends who uphold openness, honesty, and reciprocation.
• Embrace life’s transitions—focus on nurturing quality relationships in the present.

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4. Memorable Moments and Quotes

• On the Value of Stories:
  “We create narratives around facts... and we respond to those stories. What I care way more about is, do y’all have the kind of relationship where you can say, ‘Hey, I’m making up this story...’” — Dr. John (07:26)

• On practicing curiosity:
  “Be curious about the stories that you’re making up, because if you want to save money because you don’t want to be owned by a bank, that’s noble, that’s wise. If you don’t want to spend money because ‘those people are just...’ fill in the blank, man, that is a scarcity-minded, shallow way to do life.” — Dr. John (14:00)

• On bodily anxiety:
  “When your body learns that you're in the driver's seat now—not some abusive cult, not some evil spiritual leader, not some unsafe home environment—but you... That is how you teach your body to turn the alarm system off.” — Dr. John (37:43)

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5. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:21 – 16:50] Michael’s call about income differences and self-worth in romantic relationships
• [22:27 – 41:18] Faith’s call on anxiety after vasectomy, body vs. mind, and healing from childhood trauma
• [44:14 – 55:37] Haley’s call about a friendship’s erosion due to deception and how to let go
• [15:00] Dr. John quotes Rich Mullins on pride in frugality vs. excess
• [36:00] Distinction between “practicing safety” vs. “practicing thinking”

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Summary Takeaways

• Self-Reflection is Key: Whether tackling insecurity in relationships, anxiety rooted in trauma, or difficult friendships, the process begins with honest self-examination.
• Stories vs. Reality: Be aware of the narratives you invent about yourself and others; focus on shared values and open communication.
• Healing is Both Mental and Physical: For anxiety and trauma, cognitive understanding must meet somatic healing—bring your body and mind together.
• Grieve and Grow: Friendships change as life evolves; honor grief but don’t be afraid to move on and invest in reciprocal relationships.

For listeners who haven't heard the show, this episode combines warm, candid advice with deep insights into the complexities of human relationships—and reminds us that emotional freedom and growth come from honesty, curiosity, and connection.

Transcript

[Haley]

Foreign.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Michael]

My now girlfriend, she was kind of the opposite. Grew up like west coast, only a single parent, worked, had her college paid for, which I did not. You know, that kind of thing. I don't know why. Like, I don't want to be mad, but I just found myself like, mad about things like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And are you mad at her? Are you mad at you? What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls, real calls from real people going through real messy situations, taking your calls on your marriages, your mental and emotional health, your dating relationships, whatever you got going on in your life. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you click the link in the show notes and it will send you over to Kelly, our overlord, and she will get you on the show. Let's go to Boise, Idaho and talk to Michael. Hey, Michael. What's up, dude?

[Michael]

Hey, Dr. John. How are you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good, brother. How are you, man?

[Michael]

I am doing well. Doing well. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got, you got. I didn't even finish that sentence. You got it. What's up, dude?

[Michael]

Yeah, of course. So my question for you today is just trying to figure out how to handle income differences in relationships, specifically when dating, when that amount is a significant amount of money, especially in today's day and age.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me more.

[Michael]

Yeah, so kind of just like a quick backstory. I grew up in the South 2 income household. Definitely not like, you know, bad off or well off. Kind of just middle class, had what we needed but didn't spend a lot, didn't go on a lot of vacations, that kind of thing. And then my now girlfriend, she was kind of the opposite, grew up like west coast, only a single parent, worked, had her college paid for, which I did not, you know, that kind of thing. And then now specifically she makes a large amount more money than I do. So just trying to navigate that in my relationship, trying to not feel necessarily resentment from my end on that. I don't want to, but I found myself kind of feeling that way here recently. So that's the reason for the call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is a question you're not. I'm not supposed to ask. I'm Going to use a word that they trained us in counseling grad school to never use, but I'm going to use it anyway.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Faith]

Why.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why does it bother you?

[Faith]

Or why.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why do you feel less than. Or let me. Let me rephrase that. I'm. I'm feeling there's two things happening at once. One, somehow you think your experience was more real growing up than hers, and at the same time, you feel less than dating somebody that makes more money than you.

[Michael]

Yeah, that's a good question. I've kind of, like, thought that myself as well, and I. I really don't know. Like, I don't want to feel like that. And I also, like, I know probably the way I said it, like, it came off, like, I think that, you know, her experience is less growing up, and I don't think that, Like, I just think, like, that it's now at this point, like, skewing my perception of, like, let's say we go out to dinner and it's, like, not a big deal for. For her to pay something. And it is for me, like, it's kind of skewing that vision or that perception of whatever it happens to be at that time. What. When it comes to, like, purchasing or spending money. And I don't. I don't know why. Like, I don't want to be mad, but I just found myself, like, mad about things like that and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you mad at her? Are you mad at you?

[Michael]

I guess myself. I mean, I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much money do you know?

[Michael]

Like, go ahead.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much money do you make?

[Michael]

Like 70 a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And how much does she make?

[Michael]

Like 120 to 140.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, you're making a good salary. Do you like what you do for a living?

[Michael]

I do, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does she make you feel small? Does she look at you and be like, oh, my gosh, what a loser. Only make 70k a year. How old are you, by the way?

[Michael]

24.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good God, dude. 24 making 70 grand. You're doing pretty dang good, brother. Like. Like, does she make you feel that way?

[Michael]

So there was, like, there was a couple times that, like, jokes. I. I want to say jokes just because I don't know, like, where things would come up and there would be, like, little comments like, like, you need to make more money to, like, support me and our kids one day, like, things like that. And that probably happened a couple of times, and we've talked about it since. Since I was scheduled to come on the show, and I think we've resolved that, but I also Feel like that might have also kind of skewed my view. And, and like I said, you know, at the time, she was like, oh, I was just joking. You know, like, it wasn't serious. It was, it was just a side comment. But also, like, in the back of my mind, like, I feel like that kind of has made me, you know, feel like I need to make more or not, not making enough at the moment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I, I think one of the challenges you're experiencing is you're being led around like, like a bull with a nose ring. You're being led around by, I feel, I feel, I feel, I feel. And okay, at 24, feelings. I mean, all of our ages, right? I deal with this all the time, too.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Um, but if you can learn this now, man, you, you'll be free the rest of your life. Feelings are important. They're good data, but they don't tell us the truth. And I, I, I've come to the point where I don't think you can help that initial feeling. It just comes that, that feeling of feeling small, of feeling scared, of feeling anxious, like, feelings happen. What matters is what you do next. And so I care way less about income differences in a relationship than are you in a place where y' all can talk about the stories you make up. Like, people are natural storytellers. We make up stories. That's how our bodies, that's, that's one of the ways we have moved up the chain, right in the animal kingdom. We create narratives around facts, around things that are happening, and we respond to those stories. And you're, you've got so many competing stories going on inside your mind, most of which you've made up, and about yourself, about what you're worth, about her, about her background, about what she might like one day in a relationship. Like, you're just making up story after story, and your body's constantly responding to these stories. What I care way more about is, do y' all have the kind of relationship where you can say, hey, I'm making up this story that you like me, but you don't think I'm going to be a good provider for our family? And she can go, no, that's stupid. Or she can go, yeah, I have dreams of staying at home one day, and I have a lived experience of this kind of lifestyle, and I want that kind of lifestyle. Or, yeah, I grew up in Southern California on the West Coast. My dad made a jillion dollars. My mom stayed at home. But I want to do life with you. And so what Is that going to look like for us? Right. Like, that to me is what matters here.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you feel small because you don't make as much money as the, as the woman you're dating, with all due respect, that's a you problem. That's all. That's ego. I would love it if my wife made twice as much money as me. That would rule. But I'm also anchored in her and I are ride or die.

[Michael]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, I mean, it is. It all goes into the same account.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if she's with you and says, hey, let's go to this restaurant and you say, I want to pay and here's what I can afford, let's go to this one. And she's like, oh, gross, I don't want to, then she might not be the girl for you.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does that make sense?

[Michael]

Yeah. I mean, on that quit, like on that point, like, how do you have those conversations, like about, you know, like spending money when you're still dating? Like, like the great example you just gave. Like, how do I just say, like, hey, like, I can't afford to do that. Do you just outright say it, like within a relationship? I mean, it's not like I'm not comfortable, but I also just don't know how to kind of bring that or have that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I think those kind of conversations have to be anchored to something bigger than a dollar amount. They got to be anchored to a value. Okay, so. And here's what I mean by that. Do you owe money?

[Michael]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you trying to get out of debt? Are you trying to pay off your debts?

[Michael]

I am.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so anchoring it to. I've got this big goal, this vision of freedom from my life. I don't want to be owned by a bank or a car dealership or something. Then, then when she says, hey, let's go to this fancy steakhouse and you say, let's go get tacos, it's. It doesn't come across as cheap because it comes across as I'm working really hard because I got this goal.

[Michael]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you're saying I can't afford that, I'm broke, then that's a different conversation. Right. So if it's anchored to a value that, then you can have that, that's an easy conversation to have.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or like, let's. Like, if you actually are broke, you make a ton of money for a 24 year old. Right. And yeah. How old is she?

[Michael]

24 as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. She is crushing. What does she do for a living? Tech sales okay, what do you do

[Michael]

for a living, like operations, customer service, whatever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If she's good at sales, chances are she's always going to make more than you. And that's just kind of the way it is. And there's going to be seasons. Like, sales is like farming. There's seasons when the crop comes in real good, and there's also seasons when it doesn't rain. Right. So that's kind of a roller coaster ride. But a good salesperson, man, is going to always do well. That's awesome for y'.

[Faith]

All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But y' all sitting down and deciding, like, you telling her, hey, I've got this vision for my life right now. It's going to be 24 months, and I'm not going to owe anybody anything, and I'm grinding it out then, man. If she's. If she's somebody you're going to spend the rest of your life with, she's going to see that, value that goal and be like, dude, awesome, I'm. I'm paying for dinner for the next few months. And if you don't have an ego, you can say, cool, that's awesome. Or if you want to have an ego about it and be like, well, actually, no. You get what I'm saying? It's just setting your ego aside and asking yourself, what do I value here? Yeah. If Yalls values are aligned, dude, these. How you operate in the world, it's. It's. It's going to be a constant negotiation for the rest of your time together. How long have you all been dating?

[Michael]

About a year and a half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so y' all are. Y' all are in this for a minute.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you like this woman?

[Michael]

I do. Yeah. A lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Are you ashamed of how you grew up? Are you embarrassed by it?

[Michael]

No. No, I don't. I don't think so. I just. I don't know. I always, like, have this, I guess, vision for my life, like. Like, I'm gonna, you know, get married, have kids, and then, you know, live the same kind of life I had, which is more frugal. And then now I'm coming in and, like, meeting people and things like that, that they grew up a lot differently. And I'm not saying one is bad. It's just, like, I feel, like, very hard for me to, like, accept that or see how people are doing that or affording that. Right. So it kind of makes me a little more sheltered. Like, I just want to stay at home and not spend money. And does that. Does that kind of make sense? I Don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It does. It does. I want you to be careful about. I want you to, I want you to focus on curiosity over judgment. And when you see people spending money and having a good time, you, you instantly make up a story. We all do. They're reckless. They don't know what they're doing. I can't believe they would spend money on X, Y or Z.

[Michael]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And frugality is somehow superior. It's better. It's safer. What, like whatever words you want to make up.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to be curious about that story that your body instantly defaults to almost all of us, especially in your 20s. The stories that are circulating in your head are stories you grew up with. Yeah, we can't afford that. Those kind of people buy that kind of stuff. Can't believe someone would ever buy that car. I can't believe anyone would eat at that restaurant. Right. Those become the stories our parents throw out, become the stories we tell ourselves about other people. And I want you to be curious about the stories you're making up. Because if you want to save money because you don't want to be owned by a bank, that's noble, that's wise. If you don't want to save money because those people are. Just fill in the blank, man. That is a scarcity minded, like, shallow way to do life. You're going to end up like Gollum. Right. Just holding on to this ring. And the ring is I don't spend money. Right. Yeah.

[Michael]

And so that makes total sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be curious about the stories that you're making up about other people. Because here's the thing. She may have come from, from wealth. And you may not know that her dad gives away millions of dollars a year. And you may not know that her grandfather invented a, I don't know, a chip or a, a bolt. And now you get what I'm saying? Like, it's easy to put those people in that category. There's a, there's a. He was a songwriter, but I consider him a theologian. His name is Rich Mullins and I love this quote he gave one time. People are, can be as proud of the things they don't have as those who live in excess are of the things they do have. And I remember driving a used Corolla around my neighborhood, rolling my eyes at people in Alexis, how dare they? Right? Who would spend that kind of money on that? And what I assumed is a. They were looking at me going, oh my gosh, what a, what a. What a peasant driving a Corolla. I don't know what they were thinking. They weren't thinking about me at all. They were thinking about their day. Right. But also, I had this. If they were doing that, which they weren't. If they were, I was doing, I was making the same judgment on them they're making on me, just on the other side of the barbell. And I think for you, entering into practicing a season of gratitude, how cool is it that I'm dating somebody who loves me and she's crushing it at the age of 24. How cool is it that her parents were able to pay for her college? That's amazing. I would love to be able to do that for my kids one day. Or I'd like to be able to pay for part of it and not they. My kids not have to have the same fear and anxiousness that I had. Right. Like there's. There's a way to look at it with gratitude.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that just is you looking in the mirror and being curious about the stories you're making up. I do this for me. Right. Not for me, but for you. Write down four or five of the stories you've made up about her. Just be. Be about her. Her money, how she spends it. Write down three or four of the stories you've made up about why you. And this is. This is going to take some humility. Why you feel like you're superior. I would never. Or I don't do that. Or I just want to not spend money. Because, like, ask yourself why. What am I scared of happening? Or what is my financial reality? That I can spend money, man, because I owe a whole bunch of money. I took a bunch of loans out for college and for a car, and I need to get that stuff paid off. Be honest about those stories, and then sit down and tell her, hey, dude, I've made up some stories about me, about you. And these stories make me feel all kind of ways. I want to have a conversation about these stories. And by the way, what stories have you made up about you and about me and have that conversation? Because then the conversation is about the stories. It's not about your accusations. And that's a much easier way to have a conversation with somebody you care about. It makes it feel much less personal. And it's an invitation to a discussion, not. Not a declaration of war. So, dude, you're on the right path, man, but check your ego at the door and get real curious about the stories you're making up. And if you get to the bottom of all those stories and it's just, man, I'm dating a girl and she makes a bunch. She makes double my income and I feel insecure. Man, you need a big old cup of get over it. Like be happy that she's doing well. Be her number one cheerleader in her sales job. And if you feel like, hey, I want to make some more money, then you do the hard work of exploring what that would look like in your life. If you like the job you have and you like the care path you're on and it's make you're making 70 grand as 24 year old, you're winning and not in the Charlie Sheen kind of winning. Like you're actually winning. You're doing it, man. And find some gratitude with yourself. Thanks for the call, my brother. We come back, a woman asks how to trust her husband's vasectomy and stop her anxiety from ruining their sex life. This is going to be awesome. All right, so Cozy Earth and I started with their towels and then I got some Cozy Earth sheets. And then I got their comforters and their amazing blankets and then I got Cozy Earth socks. My house is covered up in Cozy Earth gear because it's amazing. And I recently got these new Cozy Earth everywhere pants. I didn't think I needed another pair of pants, but now I wear the Cozy Earth everywhere pants literally everywhere. And I want to talk about these Cozy Earth sheets. Listen, they're not normal sheets. They're made from viscose from bamboo. 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And I know from personal experience that finding help and Care for teenagers and young adults can be a nightmare. If you're a parent and your teenage or adult son, age 14 to 28, is struggling with trauma, addiction, mental health challenges or destructive behaviors and you're running out of options, I want you to consider residential treatment care. Capstone Treatment center is a residential treatment program for young men. They are working on a program for young women, but right now they are exclusively focused on working with young men. This is a live in, therapeutic setting where your son can fully step away from the chaos of the world for a few months or longer and into a structured environment with trained, licensed clinicians. This is daily, intensive work that has the power to transform your son's life and your family's life. And listen, I know folks at Capstone, Capstone is a faith based organization, but they care for all types of people in all walks of life. If somebody close to me had a son who needed that level of intervention and care, Capstone would be my first call. Residential treatment is a very serious investment in money and time and in energy because the level of care is completely different. Financial aid and scholarships are available. Go to capstonewellness.com DeLoney to learn more. That's capstonewellness.comDeloney all right, we're back. Hey. Take two seconds and hit the subscribe button. The if you're on the tubes or if you're listening to this on podcasts, wherever you're listening to this, take two seconds, hit the subscribe button and it, it makes such a huge difference for our listeners, for the guests we can get on the show, and for the algorithms. Let's go out to Tulsa, Oklahoma and talk to you. Gotta have faith. The faith, the faith. What's up, Faith?

[Faith]

Hi, Dr. John. How you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing great. How are you?

[Faith]

I'm doing pretty good. I'm anxious, but I'm doing good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Other than that, I'm anxious too, mostly because my buddy Chris Williamson has this new tonic energy drink and I'm had a bunch of coffee and I'm also drinking this and my brain feels like a laser right now.

[Faith]

That would kill me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. It won't kill you. It just makes you a supersonic version of yourself. So what's up?

[Faith]

So I'm having a hard time relaxing about my husband's vasectomy. It hasn't ruined my sex life yet, but if I don't deal with it now, I guess it will down, down the road. So like every time we have sex, I, I just freak out and I have to go through all These rituals of like, why would, why we didn't get pregnant and that we're going to be okay. And when he got his vasectomy back saying, or his paper back saying that he had, he had a successful vasectomy. And the bottom it says one in 2,000 will fail. And I'm convinced that I'm the one in 2000 that it's gonna fail on. So it's, it's. Yeah, it's pretty nerve wracking. It's hard to relax and just enjoy being with him because all I can think about is getting pregnant.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm gonna be honest with you. This is the first time I've ever got this call. It's usually the opposite. It's like, good God, I wish you'd get a vasectomy so I could just relax and we could party again. And so this is awesome. I appreciate the call. So worst case scenario with me, you get pregnant again, why is your body trying to protect you like from that moment happening? Did you have a tough pregnancy before

[Faith]

the pregnancy was okay? It was tough. They're not easy. I had a C section. He was a little early, so some complications, but we got through it. And then about four months into it, everybody talks about postpartum depression, but nobody talked about postpartum anxiety. And with C section moms, it can hit a little bit later, I guess. And about four months into it, I was in a critical care unit for three days. And they did every test known to man. And it was very physical. Like the symptoms are physical. I was having heart problems, I was nauseous and I didn't eat three meals for a whole year. It was like, I think from October to October I couldn't eat. I lost so much weight, I couldn't, I wasn't sleeping. I'd wake up at 3 o' clock every morning, have an anxiety attack and fall asleep at 5. So it was just like I lost my identity. I felt like it was an out of body experience, like I was dead, but my brain was making my body get up every day and surviving. And like I was, I felt I wasn't suicidal, but like if a car, if I walked in front of a car and it hit me, I would be like, yay, that's great, it will end it. That's kind of where I was at. And I remember saying goodbye to my kids because they didn't think I was going to live. Like it felt like every system in my body was turning off and I was in denial. I spent so much money having doctors tell Me that doing all these tests, and they said it was anxiety, and I just. I didn't believe them because the symptoms are so physical, and. And I just. I don't ever want to do that again. It was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. So, like, I don't know how to. He got a vasectomy because I would freak out every time, every time, every month. I was convinced I would read a negative pregnancy test and I would be a positive pregnancy test.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Faith]

And I would. I would just melt down and melt down. And so you got that thinking. I would calm down, and I have calmed down a little bit, but then I go through these phases of like, oh, my gosh, like, what are we going to do? Like, I'm going to die if this happens. And then at the end of all of my testing, they did find. Because I was having nerve pain, really bad nerve pain, I couldn't stand up. And they. At the end of all this testing, at the end of the year, they found a bone tumor in my pelvis. So I really can't get pregnant. Worst case scenario, like, you know, it's not looking good for me if I were to get pregnant.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I have a hypothesis. Okay.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're talking to a guy that ended up in the ER with that. My buddy, who was my physician, thought I was having a heart attack. Like, we were laughing and carrying on while he was doing his exam, and then he stepped out of the room and came back in with three nurses in an ekg. He goes, brother, you got to go to the ER right now.

[Faith]

Oh, gosh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And it wasn't that. It was anxiety. Okay. So I've never had. And you're right, postpartum depression. I think people think of depressive symptoms. I just usually say postpartum because it comes. Everybody reacts differently to the cascade of changes that just happened to it. Right. My concern for you is, let's say you quote unquote, and I'm using this very loosely. Okay? Get over. You don't get over. But let's say you're. You make peace with. The vasectomy is real, okay? It's working. You're not going to get pregnant from it. It's been my experience sitting with people struggling with anxiety for years, that your body will just move to the next thing. It will find something else to go to war against. And then you solve that and it goes to war against something else. Right. And you find one medical complication, one medical thing like, oh, there's a thing in my pelvis. Boom. Now Every time I sneeze, I think I got cancer. Like it's just going to keep moving until you deal with the core challenges, which is your body has identified something or some things in your environment that it believes you're not safe. And it will keep throwing darts at a dartboard thing. Oh, that's it, that's it, that's it. And it will keep moving until you get to the core, core issues. So can I ask you some questions about your just overall life? Tell me about growing up.

[Faith]

I was, I was, I was raised in a really legalistic home that was reminiscent of a cult, honestly. Like they like child marriage, like arranged marriages. They, it was kind of crazy. It was, it was really stressful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did they arrange you with the guy you're with now?

[Faith]

No, no, they, they tried to. Family stepped in and didn't allow that to happen. And then the pastor threatened me when I was like, I was like 12 or 13.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Faith]

Yes, it was. I've been working through that my whole life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, what does that mean when you say you've been working through that?

[Faith]

I mean, I've been in therapy and I've, you know, I've, I've gotten really close. Like I've worked through my faith and I've gotten to know who I am. I have an identity now like in Jesus. And so that's, that has helped tremendously. So I feel like my, in my mind I know like what truth is, I know who I am, but it's like my body in my mind aren't the same person.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Faith]

I don't know if that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, listen, I had, I, I've never talked about this on the show. I don't think I, I had to go do something they call body work for childhood trauma. And literally somebody put their hands on my shoulders and my arms, in my head while I walked back through some things that happened to me as a kid. And you're like, what you're describing is, is what I think most people who don't experience this can't wrap their head around is. It's not just a matter of thinking it. This stuff is encoded in your nervous system. And so as your mind thinks it's getting closer and closer to this, this faith that you want to have, your body remembers your 13 year old nervous system is still driving and it says God hates you.

[Faith]

Yeah, it does.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And so actually the more information you get, the more your body's going to spin up the alarm system because you're not safe.

[Faith]

I don't feel safe.

[Haley]

Ever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you know, but you don't feel safe inside your own skin. It's.

[Michael]

It in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In your body tries to solve for safety externally. Safety from pregnancy, safety from financial issues. Safety, safety, safety all out there, but the real war is happening inside your body. Do you. Are you close with your parents? Are y', all, are y' all cut off?

[Haley]

No.

[Faith]

Now I'm close with my parents. We've, we've worked through a lot of things as a family and, and whatnot. And they were kind of victims of some of this as well. They really weren't perpetrators. They were victims of this really bad person.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you, can you go to your parents? And I'm going to say this jokingly, but I'm serious. Can you fart in your mother's living room?

[Faith]

Oh, no, that not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Okay. So. So again, all of this is happening cognitively, but when you show up to your parents, your body still knows. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta get on stage and act.

[Faith]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so again, your body knows we're still not safe. We said all the right words. We said I forgive you and we're sorry. Cool. Can I be me in your living room? Nope. Right. Did you experience any, any physical or sexual abuse growing up?

[Faith]

No, it was more like my vet. So like in this church environment, my best friend was actually abused by her dad and the whole church defended the dad and wrote him love letters in prison. But the kids got taken away and I lived with a lot of survivors guilt with that because it was. It always felt like it should have been me. So that, that's something that. It's like I've worked through it cognitively, I guess, but like, I still. Like, it's really hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so here's, here's how we're going to. We're going to reframe this and work through it. Okay?

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to write. This is going to sound crazy. I want you to write your body a love letter.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Not your. Not the way Kelly does it. Like I look so good. Not that kind of love. I want you to write yourself a love letter because here's what I think. I think your body is working really hard to keep you safe. And you've been at war with your body for years. And I think your body's working pretty dang good. It's still trying to protect this 13 year old girl whose friends are getting abused, whose pastor's telling her she's going to burn in hell, whose parents don't know which way to turn. And who Then suddenly is staring at her own new child. And your body goes, ah, I know this story. Here we go again. I want to suggest that your body's working pretty good given the. The set of circumstances and the path forward for you is less about. I need to listen to another podcast or read another article about anxiety, Go to another therapist and talk more about the situation and more about. You need to connect your body to the safe world that you're in now.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get what. You get how different this is?

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so answer a few questions for me. Is your husband a safe guy? Is he a good man?

[Faith]

Oh, he's the best. He's so safe. He's grounds me honestly, like, when I'm feeling crazy anxious and spiraling, like, his touch calms me down. So he's my best friend.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Michael]

He's.

[Faith]

He's everything that I didn't have as a child.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And okay, so know this. Know this. Again, cognitively, you know that. But our bodies solve for our unfinished business. We. We marry what's comfortable, generally. And if you marry what's safe, it will feel uncomfortable to your body.

[Faith]

Yeah, right. Yeah, definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so, you know, cognitively, I'm safe. I remember being so anxious and my body was responding as though somebody was busting through my door with a hatchet coming right at me.

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I remember laughing. I was. Because I would be like, there's nothing wrong. And my body was like, run. I'm like. I'm like watching Seinfeld. It's like, what has happened? You know what I mean? And so making peace with, oh, I feel you, body. I feel you. This guy's safe. Not. I need you to. I need you to touch me. I need you to hold me. I need you. I'm good. And this is you practicing self soothing. This is you practicing, hey, what's my body trying to protect me from right now? And here's what happens when your body learns that you're in the driver's seat now. Not some abusive cult, not some evil spiritual leader, not some unsafe home environment, but you. I'm driving and I'm driving. I'm going to teach my body that I'm driving because every time it sets the alarm system off, I'm going to go, okay, let's just be honest. What are we. What are we scared of in this moment? Oh, I'm good now. I'm a good mom. I'm married to a really safe, good guy. And this is going to sound nutty, but I want to practice safety, not practice thinking.

[Faith]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not Practice calling another therapist. Like, I want to practice feeling safe.

[Faith]

Okay, that sounds really scary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But. But listen, it's gonna feel terrifying to your body. And the alarms may even sound louder for a season because it's gonna think, oh, you don't get it.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's you practicing. No, I got it. Thank you, body, for trying to take care of me now. But I'm good. I'm safe. I'm driving.

[Faith]

Even if they talk out loud to your body.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, dude. I talked out loud to myself all the time. All the time. My wife would laugh. I would walk through the living room, and when those stories spun up, I would. I would literally yell out loud in. In the living room, like walking across the house. I'd be like, nope, not doing this and. Or I'm good. And my wife would laugh. But she knew I was practicing taking back control of my thoughts. Because we think that voice in our head, especially if you're struggling, anxiety. We think that voice in our head is us. It's not. It's a. It's a. It's a conglomeration of all these other voices who've been spitting at us and yelling at us and criticizing us and judging us for years. And I would recommend finding. I want you to be specific about. And I know they're going to be there in Tulsa, a trauma informed therapist. And here's what I want you to say. I want you to walk into the therapy office and say, I've been talking about this stuff for years. I want to do some body work. I want to do some emdr. I want to heal from this in my body so that I can get on about my life.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And a good trauma therapist will say, awesome. Game on.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And we live in a sliver of history right now. There's. There's medications, there's some incredible advancements with psychedelics. There is incredible body work that's being done on a regular basis. Now even there's something as. As low level as emdr. There are things you can do not to sit and just talk and talk and talk and talk.

[Faith]

It doesn't help.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. It actually makes it worse. But moving because it's continuing to divorce your head, what you know to be true from your body, trying to keep you safe. Right. And so we're going to connect those two things and then this is going to sound crazy. We're going to get on about our life. I'm driving now. Right. And I want you to that to be a refrain. I don't have to have these Imaginary conversations in my head over and over again. I don't have to replay what happened to my friend over and over again. I don't have to ever, ever, ever. Outside, the flash of boom. There's that flash of that old pastor in my head. I don't have to think about him for one second. I get to choose what I ruminate on. All of these things begin to teach your body. Oh, you're driving now. Cool. We can turn the alarm system off.

[Faith]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because the fire is on a stove. The fire is not burning the house down.

[Faith]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get what I'm saying right now. All of this back to husband's vasectomy. Right? This is going to sound again. I've said this 20 times. It's going to sound nutty. Because I don't think anyone's ever told you this before. If you have sex with your husband and y' all have a great time and then the anxiety kicks up on the back end, I don't want you to go to war with your body.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to put your fist in your chest or your hand on your chest and then just ask yourself, what are you trying to protect me from?

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't do this in bed while he's sitting right there. Like, that'll be awkward. Right. Do it by yourself and just quickly say, what are you trying to protect me from? Oh, from getting pregnant. We're good.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if it says we're not good, we're not good. Say, I'm going to write this down. My body thinks we're. I'm pregnant. Cool. I can literally do nothing about that tonight. I'm. I'm going to do that tomorrow.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thinking about it all night is not going to make you less pregnant.

[Michael]

Right?

[Faith]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'm going to write it down. I'm going to get out of my body, and then I'm going to roll over and go to sleep.

[Faith]

Okay? So keep, like, a journal by my bed, and when I have these anxious thoughts afterwards, just, like, write them down and be like, I'll deal with it

[Dr. John DeLoney]

tomorrow and put a time on it tomorrow at 10am I'll think about this tomorrow. And your body goes, oh, okay, cool.

[Faith]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now it's not going to be that simple. Right? It'd be like, no, let's think about it now. Right? My. But I got a buddy who's a comic. His name is Comic or Connor Larson. He's hilarious. But he. He. He talks about, like, every time he goes to bed, he puts his head on his pillow and it's like having a drunk bunk mate right next to him. Right when he puts his head on his pillow, his. The bunk mate's like, hey, you want to think about some crazy things right now? It's. It's awesome, right? Just be able to write it down. Yeah, go ahead, real quick. What three things you want to talk about? Oh, the end of the world, getting pregnant again. Mother coming over. Cool. I've written that down. Tomorrow at 9 o'. Clock. We'll think about that then.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All of this is practicing autonomy.

[Faith]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Agency, I'm driving. You don't have to ruminate on every thought you have. You don't have to meditate on it. And all of this is practice. It took me a couple of years to be honest with you, but here's what I want you to hear me say. There is peace on the other side of this practice. It's worth it. It's so worth it. You'll have good days. You'll still have anxious days. You'll still have grinding to a halt anxious days when you just look at your husband and say, I need to borrow your nervous system for about 30 minutes. Turn on your favorite show. I'm going to curl up in. In your lap and I just need you to hold me. And don't try to do the back massage move because it's not working tonight. But like, I'm, I'm. There's going to be those days. It's part of life. It's all good. I don't want to live in a body that doesn't ever feel anxiety because anxiety is an alarm system. I need that. I just need it to go off when things are actually a threat and not when it's trying to keep me safe from stuff that happened 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. You are on the right path. I'm so grateful that you called. And your willingness to call is going to help a whole bunch of people. So thank you so much for reaching out. Hang on the line. I'm gonna hook you up with building a non anxious life. I'm gonna send you that book. It's not a replacement for therapy, but it will give you and your husband a path out. So hang on the line. I'll send that to you as my gift. We come back, a woman asks if she should stay friends with someone who has a bad, bad reputation. I have the same question about Kelly. So we'll get through this together. Winter is over and summer is here. And this means it's time to rotate the old closet. The poncho flannels and denims are going in the back. And my favorite poncho originals and ultralights are coming to the forefront. That's right. No matter what time of the year, I still am rocking my poncho shirts. I've been wearing poncho shirts for years for one reason. They're the best. The original poncho light shirt is the go anywhere performance shirt. It's lightweight, it's breathable, it's quick drying. It's built for real life. And the ultralight is get this ultra light. It has that same great fit with an even lighter feel. And when it gets hot like it does in Tennessee, all of the lightness matters. Poncho shirts have stretch. They move with you, and even though they're light and soft, they are wicked tough. And here's the deal. Poncho shirts look sharp enough to wear to dinner, to wear to church, and they're comfortable enough to wear in the yard or out on the lake. If warmer weather has you ready to reshuffle your closet, I want you to go to ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney and check out all of their amazing styles. Get 10 bucks off your first purchase. Just sign up with your email. That's ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to Indianapolis, Indiana and talk to Haley. Hey, Haley. What's up?

[Haley]

Hey, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. What's going on?

[Haley]

So I met my friend three years ago. She was touring my college that I have graduated since from. I was her tour guide, and we, like, connected, immediately clicked, and I gave her my contact information. But, hey, you know, if you ever have any questions, let me know. She actually decided to enroll. We connected again in the fall semester when she came in as a freshman. I was a senior. She ended up joining my sorority, and I became her big. So, like, big little big bigs and littles in Greek life, mentor, mentee relationship. So I've always been kind of like. Like, I view her as like a little sister to me. Honest, like, genuinely so. I feel very protective over her at this point. We're still very close friends. I've since graduated. She's almost 21. I'm 24, but I am struggling with whether I should stay friends with her. She's a great friend to me. She's amazing, wonderful. I love her. But she does some things that I'm not in favor of. And I've tried talking to her about it, and it just doesn't really go Anywhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like what?

[Haley]

So she, going into college, had a boyfriend of like four years, and after they had hit five years, she ended up cheating on him. And this was after I had graduated, but she cheated on her boyfriend with a close guy friend, and she had been emotionally cheating for a while prior. And I knew about it because she would ask me, hey, like, which do I choose? I'm like, you're not choosing between them. You choose, do you want to be with your boyfriend, yes or no, then have a time where you're single and then maybe choose the other person. But she lied to me about it, did not tell me that they had like a physical cheating. I heard about it from the guy because I also knew him. Not the ex, but the friend. And. Yeah, so she was like cheating on this guy she'd been like, with forever, and then leading on this friend that had like this massive crush on her and was lying to me about it. And I was like, I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't let me stop you there.

[Haley]

This is like a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no, it's cool. I, I love the OC So we're, we're here. Like, she's not a good friend to you. And the whole premise of the call was she's a good person to me. She's a good friend to me. She's not. She lied to your face multiple times.

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She hurt one of your, one of your joint friends together. She violated a half a decade relationship. I've got, I've got close personal friends who have blown their marriages to smithereens and they circle back and we've had some hard, direct, loving conversations, and I'll still fight for those men and women till the end of time, but it, it's rooted in, like, honesty and your friendship isn't. And it, like, you have to metabolize that because that's the reality.

[Haley]

That's true. I, I mean, I've tried talking to her about, like, all of the cheating, and I was like, hey, I'm not comfortable with this. I think you kind of did this guy dirty. Both of these guys dirty. She ended up cheating again with, like, another guy too. And I think the solution to that was that she just doesn't tell me anything with her love life anymore.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That means she's not a good friend to you.

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why don't. What? There, there's. There's a thing called confirmation bias. We all know that there's another construct called desirability bias. And that is when I see things that I want to be there that are not. Why are you so interested in this relationship being something that it isn't? Is it. Is it you avoiding being really sad?

[Faith]

It's.

[Haley]

It's not that. I mean, I have. I mean, I have other good friends. It's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you feel like you failed because she was your little. And it was your job to morally guide her? And, like, do you feel like you messed up? Because I don't think he did. I think she made some.

[Faith]

I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Some late teenage, early adult choices.

[Haley]

I don't think it's that. I think it's. I just don't want to abandon her as she's kind of navigating all of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's abandoning you. She left you. You did the right friend thing, which is to see a friend that you love, that you see, and that, you know, you've spent years celebrating her as her big. And then you did the next right thing, which is you challenged her. This isn't who you said you wanted to be. This isn't who we said we are going to be in our friendship. And she was like, yeah, I'm out. She left you.

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You did the right thing. Friends hold each other accountable. That's. That's one of the cornerstones of friendship. Iron sharpens iron.

[Haley]

I mean, is there a way to, like, still stay friends with her, though? Because, like, I don't have, like, a personal problem with her.

[Faith]

It's just that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what I'm saying. You should have a personal problem with her. She lies to your face. She hides things from you. You should have a problem with her. You should. I think you should still show up and be a person of character. Be kind, be respectful. But you have to. You have to own the relationship for what it is. It is not a good friendship because she cut you out of part of it because you held her feet to the fire. And so how, if she reaches out to you. Yeah. Be kind. She doesn't want your advice on her love life. She doesn't want your advice on her character. She doesn't want your advice on her integrity. That's not a friendship. That's a person I used to know.

[Haley]

I. I just. I struggle with, like, cutting off friends because I don't want to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's cut you out. She's cut out.

[Haley]

Yeah, I. I struggled in college a lot with, like, my friends, like, kind of. I felt like every semester I had a different friend group, and I never really had. I now, like, post grad, I have my consistent friends. But at the time, it was always like, I felt Like I had a different friend group and people would randomly stop talking to me and I didn't know why. And I don't want to be that person to her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you don't want it to be, but it is. You know what I mean?

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's the other thing. You're not in college anymore.

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you got a gang and you're focusing on what you used to have and not the amazing thing that you do have. You have an immature 20 year old friend and that stinks. You all used to be pretty tight.

[Haley]

I mean, we have a lot. Like she's so supportive and kind and always there for me and like I. I know, I know it sounds bad. I know it sounds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, she's not always there for you.

[Haley]

But other than like this, other than honesty and integrity. I know, I know. I know it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You just, you gave me some insight. Why are you so desperate for her approval?

[Haley]

It's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is. It is. Why. Why do you need this 20 year old to like you?

[Haley]

I don't necessarily need her to like me.

[Faith]

I just.

[Haley]

I don't want her to not like me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. Exactly. I. Let me put this.

[Haley]

Friends. I like to keep my friends.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Okay. Own that. This is, this is a big huge distraction from feeling grief. You lost a good friend, you did the right friend thing and your friend said, I'm out. That's grief. That's sadness. And you're right to feel sad. You're right to feel Sad because you're 24 and you've had other girlfriends. You have your own life experience and you know where this leads for her. And there's few things more painful than seeing someone we care about doing self destructive things and they don't want to, they don't want our input. But in true friendship, in true ride or die friendship, I'm willing to risk you not liking me for a season to let you know how much I love you. And this is all parasitic is too dramatic of a word, but you have a strange codependence with this girl.

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You. For whatever reason, it's probably 50 different reasons you have decided you need her to like you and to be in your life. She's not a good friend. She might say nice things to you and she might send you hilarious texts and memes and she might leave you neat notes with bubble letters on your car windshield. I don't know what, I'm just making crap up. But like all those things may be true, but she's not your close Friend.

[Haley]

So what would you say is like, what do I do then? Like, do I just stop talking to her? Like, how do I do we get to a point where we're close. I don't know what to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Maybe I, I had very. I, I like you. I had a few really close ride or die friends. There was years that we didn't talk for three or four or five years. Life just got in the way. We moved, we went separate ways. Somebody got married, somebody had a kid. And now as we, I've looped back, those are some of my best closest friends on the planet. And we laugh about those times. They were idiots or I was an idiot. But it was just keeping things pretty open handed.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, she is representative of you being 24 and you've still got your feet in both worlds and the boats, you got a foot in one boat, which is college and the fun and the experience and the oh my gosh, what's going on in club, in, in sorority. Like, and then you also have another foot in the adult world and that boat is starting to take off and you're like, you're about to start doing the splits, right?

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so get your foot out of the college boat. And if, if somebody's listening to this and they're 35, it's easy to keep your foot in the. When we were in our 20s, if somebody has a kid that just went from elementary school to middle school or middle school to high school, it's easy to keep your foot in the. Remember when all the parents, we'd all just hang out at the little league games and our kids would play. And now we have one foot in the high school boat or the going to college boat. And that boat's taking off fast. Be where you are. And you're 24, you have a full time job now.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All growed up. You got friends you hang out with after work.

[Haley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have some dumb boy you're in love with.

[Haley]

No. That's a whole other story.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just find a dude. Just call it. We all thought, listen, we all dated and thought we knew the person and then we got married. We don't know him. We don't know. I'm. Just pick a dude and just get on with it.

[Haley]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's terrible advice, but it's, it's pretty much right. But here's the thing. Get your foot out of the college world. Of course respond to her messages, of course send her happy birthday message, but let the relationship be what it is. It's. It's It's a glorified text message relationship. It's. I hope you're doing well. It's a. I don't hear from you much. Yeah, I've got. Work is busy. I'm. I've got so much wild stuff to do. You were in a sorority. Let's make that the least cool thing of your life when you look back in your 70. Let's spend our energy finding people to do life with, moving forward, not trying to hang on to what we had and for whatever, like take the rose colored glasses off. She's not your friend. She was. She lies to you. She withholds from you. She keeps secrets from you. That's not a friendship. That's a person I used to know. And that stinks. That's heartbreaking. But it sounds like you got a great crew of women that you're doing life with now. It's awesome. Let's invest there. Thanks for call, sister. We'll be right back. Everything, and I mean everything, feels like it's going off the rails. I've spent my entire career working in chaotic situations with hurting people, and I've never seen anything like what's going on in our world today. I want to challenge you to stop consuming all of the news, all the time, all the chaos, even all of the stress and sports scores. And I want you to consider spiritually grounding yourself before you launch out in the morning into the madness that is our world. One of the ways I keep myself spiritually grounded in my faith is by using the Hallow app almost every single morning. I used it on my ride into work today. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world. This app has everything from scripture readings to music to meditations, lecture series, stories, and more. It's worth checking out. You can try Hallow for free for three months at hallow.com deloney and take back the first few minutes of your day before everything else tries to take them from you. That's three months for [e-mail] Deloney all right, Kelly, rocking the deep V. Am I the problem? What's up?

[Kelly]

All right, so this is from Kelsey in Blaine, Washington, and she writes, you're gonna love this one. It's gonna harken back to your childhood. All right, let's go with that. My 10 year old son was recently hanging out with a friend riding skateboards around our small neighborhood. He called me from his GPS watch to ask if they could go ding dong ditching.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The answer, yes, continue.

[Kelly]

By the way, I Never called my parents to ask if I could do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nope.

[Kelly]

Nope. I was surprised, but told him no. I didn't think it was a good idea. He was very disappointed, but I accept. But accepted my answer. He brought it up again after he got home and said he feels like he's missing out on a core childhood memory and he doesn't see any harm in it. We talked about the risks of going up to random houses even in a safe neighborhood. He thinks I'm being unreasonable and. But I think I gave the responsible answer. I appreciate that he asked, but can't give him permission to do that, even if it would probably would have been harmless. Am I the problem?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As much as it pains me to say no, you're right.

[Kelly]

Because if we'd have called our parents to ask the same thing, we would have been told no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, we would have been hit.

[Kelly]

But we didn't. We didn't call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We would have been set on fire.

[Kelly]

First of all, we had no way to call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. The second thing is. And this just is. This is like wanting gas to be $0.89 again. Everyone's got ring cameras. Everyone watches way too much news. The. Our communities are filled with John Wick wannabes who are just foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to, like, go western on some kid like, you just can't anymore. And it breaks my heart and it makes me sad, and it just is the way it is. And so I hate it. But it's. That's the world we live in now.

[Kelly]

And we. So we are the part of town that I live in. You know, there's a Facebook page. Of course there is. And people post all the time. These kids rang my doorbell, and, you know, these little punks ring my doorbell and I'm like, you probably did it too, when you were that age. But we. There was no cameras.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Kelly]

So, yeah, unfortunately, now it's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. I did draw. I was driving down the street the other day to work, and I literally threw both hands in the air. Like, I just didn't care. And I cheer. I was like, yell, cheering. I drove past a house, and when I tell you it got wiped out with toilet paper, I was so happy. I mean, it was like, yes, bring back toilet papering houses. That's funny. But if a group of kids show up and they got 50 rolls of toilet paper, A, let them wrap your house, for God's sake. That's what your teenagers are for, to pick up that stuff. B, don't be all goofy and don't post their pictures on the Facebook page, it's a. It's a term of. I mean, it's an action of endearment that means your kid is loved and has friends. Right. So we need to bring back toilet papering houses.

[Kelly]

But the problem is now it's too expensive.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Now it's $108 a roll. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, exactly. By the way, I filled my truck up today at the gas station.

[Kelly]

Yeah, I filled my van up the other day, and it's probably the first time I've ever just like. I mean, I've always been like, you know what? Gas prices are what they are. Nothing I can do about it. But I was just, holy crap.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Like, I. I texted my wife and I was like, we can't eat for the rest of this month.

[Kelly]

Month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I literally drive to work now so that I can put gas in the car to drive home.

[Kelly]

And then I was parked next to this huge truck, big old truck, and I thought, I can't even imagine how much it's costing to fill that thing up, because it costs almost a hundred dollars to fill up my van.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you look cool riding in that van. Hey, I know, it's awesome. And I like how you got the seats lowered so you can lean back. It's so good. Dude.

[Kelly]

Hey, they see me rolling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They see you rolling, and then they, like, try to cut you off, and you hop out of that car all pissed off with your deep V, and they're like, go, go, go, go. Yeah, I did. Hey, as much as I love ding dong ditch taping cars, they ruined it for us. But here's the big lesson for your kid. Tell them, stop asking me. Go do kids stuff and apologize later. She.

[Michael]

It.