I Had an Affair in the First Year of Marriage

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show – "I Had an Affair in the First Year of Marriage"

Release Date: May 9, 2025

Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, hosted by Dr. John DeLoney from the Ramsey Network, listeners delve deep into the complexities of relationships, infidelity, and family dynamics. The episode features heartfelt conversations with callers grappling with personal challenges, offering insights and practical advice to navigate troubled waters in marriage and family life.

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1. Rebuilding After Infidelity: Marcus's Story

Caller: Marcus from Hoboken, New Jersey
Timestamp: [00:05] – [16:24]

Summary: Marcus opens up about a devastating incident where his wife discovered him having sex with another woman during their first year of marriage while he was blackout drunk. The betrayal led to a estrangement that has lasted nearly a year, with no physical intimacy shared since. Despite individual and couple therapy, Marcus seeks guidance on rebuilding a safe space for his wife and addressing his own physical needs without imposing pressure.

Notable Quotes:

• Marcus: "[00:05] My wife walked out to me having sex with another woman. I was blackout drunk. I don't really remember much of that actual event."
• Dr. DeLoney: "[04:11] Hey, I appreciate you being honest, okay. That's not an easy thing to do."
• Marcus: "[14:59] I do. Yes."
• Dr. DeLoney: "[15:15] So tonight, you sit down with your wife and you clear the table, and you have nothing between the two of you."

Discussion & Insights: Dr. DeLoney commends Marcus for his honesty and accountability, emphasizing the importance of rebuilding trust through consistent, loving actions rather than solely relying on therapy. He encourages Marcus to demonstrate his commitment by actively showing love and creating a safe environment, suggesting that small daily gestures can significantly impact healing. Dr. DeLoney also addresses the challenges of Marcus’s blackout state during the affair, highlighting the added layer of complexity it introduces to their reconciliation process.

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2. Navigating Toxic In-Laws: Jane's Dilemma

Caller: Jane from Akron, Ohio
Timestamp: [20:32] – [35:01]

Summary: Jane shares her struggle with her in-laws who have severed ties with her and her husband due to unresolved, long-standing issues that persisted even after their marriage. Despite their efforts to reconcile, including reaching out during her pregnancy, Jane and her husband faced hostility and verbal abuse, leading them to distance themselves to protect their growing family.

Notable Quotes:

• Jane: "[21:35] A little over a year ago, my husband and I got married. And while things were initially great with my in-laws, tensions began to rise midway through our engagement."
• Dr. DeLoney: "[28:49] They gave you up."
• Jane: "[29:43] Or that's exactly what's going on."
• Dr. DeLoney: "[34:20] Because they will poison the whole."

Discussion & Insights: Dr. DeLoney acknowledges the toxicity of Jane’s in-laws, advising her and her husband to cease attempts at reconciliation to maintain their own mental and emotional well-being. He underscores the importance of setting firm boundaries to prevent further emotional harm, recommending that they limit interactions strictly to supportive extended family members who do not perpetuate the negative dynamics. Dr. DeLoney also emphasizes the necessity of mutual support between Jane and her husband to navigate this challenging period effectively.

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3. Honesty with an Adopted Child: Alex's Challenge

Caller: Alex
Timestamp: [38:45] – [55:30]

Summary: Alex confronts the delicate task of maintaining honesty and transparency with her oldest son, who was biologically hers but adopted by her husband. Having faced trauma from a past assault, Alex and her husband adopted their son when he was three. As their family grows with the addition of twins, Alex seeks advice on how to disclose the truth about her son's biological father without alienating him or making him feel different from his siblings.

Notable Quotes:

• Alex: "[39:03] So my question is, how can my husband and I best navigate honesty and transparency with our oldest son... while keeping him from feeling alienated from his siblings."
• Dr. DeLoney: "[44:09] So here's an exercise that I'm stealing from Terry Real."
• Alex: "[50:53] Go ahead."
• Dr. DeLoney: "[54:46] And so when you sit down and he's 15 and he's already 17, he's like, why didn't you ever tell me..."

Discussion & Insights: Dr. DeLoney provides a compassionate framework for Alex, emphasizing age-appropriate honesty and the importance of maintaining a strong, unifying family bond. He advises starting conversations with simple truths that their son can understand at his current age, gradually building up to more complex truths as he matures. Dr. DeLoney highlights the significance of ensuring that the son never feels burdened by secrets or disparate information compared to his siblings. He also recommends professional counseling to guide Alex and her husband through this sensitive process, ensuring that their approach fosters trust and emotional security within the family.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Dr. John DeLoney skillfully navigates through deeply personal and painful issues faced by listeners, offering empathetic and practical advice rooted in psychological expertise. Whether dealing with the aftermath of infidelity, toxic family relationships, or the complexities of adopted children, Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of honesty, accountability, and setting healthy boundaries. His guidance empowers callers to take actionable steps toward healing and fostering stronger, more resilient relationships.

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Note: Advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments have been omitted to focus solely on the substantive discussions and advice provided during the episode.

Transcript

[Marcus]

My wife walked out to me having sex with another woman. I was blackout drunk. I don't really remember much of that actual event. We haven't had sex together since, and it's been approaching a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, exhale on that one. I know that wasn't easy. What in the world's going on? This is jon with it, Dr. John DeLoney's show. Taking your calls. Real people calling from all over the planet, talking about your relationships, your marriage, your kids, your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. If you want to be on the show, I would love to have you go to johndelony.com ask that'S-E-L-J-O-H-N-E-L-O-N y.com ask a s k, fill out the form, let us know what's going on. And love to get you on the show. Couple of things. I'm drinking this. Drink this liquid death. Show's not sponsored by it. I just like it. And. But here's what I'm really excited about. My new shirt. Rumor has it. Rumor has it that Nashville is getting a major league baseball team. My Astros have traded away. Everybody is happening, Nashville, let's get a baseball team. And I can finally let it go. Just like, is Ariel. She the one?

[Elsa]

Elsa.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Elsa. I don't know. Like, I'm. I'm tired. I'm done. I got to be done. I haven't lived in Houston for, hey.

[Elsa]

If I could be a cowboy fan still.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but I don't have a humongous tar tattooed right at the base of my neck so I can change. I did almost get a. Like, a Houston.

[Elsa]

It work for me to be a Nashville Stars fan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If that was the case, oh, my gosh, I will.

[Elsa]

I'm a Dallas Stars fan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I will tattoo Nashville stars on my chest. I'll copy yours. When you have old English everything, it'd be rad. Nashville, let's do this. Nashville Stars. Come on. Let's make it happen. Let's make it happen. All right, let's go out to Hoboken, New Jersey, and talk to Marcus. What up, Marcus?

[Marcus]

Hey, John. Good day to you, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You too, man. How are we doing?

[Marcus]

I'm. I'm doing probably better than I deserve.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. That may be a low bar, right? I'm just playing what's up it.

[Marcus]

So I'm gonna get straight to the. To the point, straight to the facts, John. So on a blackout drunk night in a big social event, my walk. My wife walked out to me having sex with another woman. I was blackout drunk. I don't really remember much of that actual event. Since that happened, my wife and I, we've been going through therapy individually as well as couples therapy, seeing psychiatrists, you know, and therapists as well. Day to day. Things are as good as they can be given the circumstances. We still show a little affection, but we still function. She's a stay at home wife. I work extremely hard to provide. But ultimately, my question is, John, what can I do outside of therapy and counseling to kind of rebuild a safe space for her? And a follow up question to that would be, what can I do to kind of maintain my physical needs without making her feel pressure? Because we haven't had sex together since and it's been approaching a year. And I take full responsibility for my actions. And that has been, you know, a really good thing for. For both of us. But those are my questions.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, I appreciate you being honest, okay? That's not an easy thing to do, to just talk, call some strange dude and just like lay it out like that. So I appreciate that.

[Marcus]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, exhale on that one. I know that wasn't easy.

[Marcus]

It wasn't. It wasn't at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know. Exhale one more time. How many times before you got married did you tell yourself you're never gonna be that guy that cheats on his wife?

[Marcus]

I feel like I tried to convince myself that I would never do it, but deep down, you know, I've been so insecure my whole life. And to be honest, I wasn't ready to get married. But I do love her, and, you know, I'm convinced that she is the one. I just. This is the first time I've ever really been honest with myself, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. So what I would tell you is even if you weren't ready to get married, you did, right?

[Marcus]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So there we are. So we're here. How long you been married?

[Marcus]

Three years. We've been together a total of nine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Why. Why did it take six years for y' all to get married? How are you still not ready even after six years?

[Marcus]

I. For. For me, it was all about making things as perfect as possible. So I saved my money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. What were you waiting for?

[Marcus]

All right, I. If. If I'm going to be completely honest, I wanted to put on a big show. I wanted outside people to see how big the eng. How wonderful, you know, our wedding was. And it took me that long to be financially in A position to be able to have a knockout engagement and post these pictures on Facebook and Instagram to kind of get the recognition from. To be honest, people that I didn't even know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Marcus]

And that. That. That's what took so long. That's what took so long.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And do you get how accidentally your wife just became a tool in your toolkit that you were using to build this big, fancy picture for the outside world? Look how great Marcus is.

[Marcus]

I see it. I see it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I would tell her if she was on the phone. Yeah, but you married him anyway, right? She played a part. She went along. She went with you for six years, waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting. She didn't turn you down when you wanted to make a big spectacle either, right?

[Marcus]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So it's not like she's absolved of this. This is just the world y' all co created, where we're gonna. We're gonna walk around with this big film projector that enters into the room before the real us ever shows up. And you get so focused on what's on that film projector that you forget to deal with the inside. And that is. I'm looking at another woman saying, ride or die. Till death do us part. I will stand in front of the bullet, and you will be by my side, and I'll be by yours. Come up. Come. I will be right here. And it's easy to get distracted when you're focusing on that. On that. On that image. Right. Instead of dealing with reality.

[Marcus]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I guess. I guess here's like to drill all the way down. Man, you're like a guy I would love to spend just a long time just talking to and just, like, hear the whole story, because I know there's some depth to it. And you sound like a guy who's. Man, you've probably done a lot. A lot of work over the last year, haven't you?

[Marcus]

Yeah. Yes. I've tried so hard, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you are.

[Marcus]

I've been trying so hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me ask you a. Can I ask you a hard question?

[Marcus]

Of course.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And. And do. Listen, my man, it only works if you tell me the 100 truth. Okay.

[Marcus]

Got it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you want to be married and build a life with this singular one woman, or are you working really hard to not be the guy that failed in his marriage?

[Marcus]

And my honest answer? I'm working real hard not to be the guy to fail. I've been working real hard not to be the demise of her because I know how Much she loves me and I know how much of herself she's given up to be with me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me say this like that has happened. That has happened. All right, so you're trying to, you're trying to prevent a fire that's already happened. You're walking around in a house that's burned to the ground and, and you're standing in the ash and you're looking for the fire extinguisher. It's already happened. If you're worried about hurting her, she saw you having sex another woman. That's happened. Okay. She waited six years for you to say, all right, finally I do. She's already been there. The only way you come back from that level of. And there's, and there's infidelity in layers. And often the challenge with someone who's struggled, who's got cheated on, if you will, is the imagination of their partner with somebody else.

[Marcus]

Yes. It's. It's a day to day thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is another layer. She saw it, right?

[Marcus]

Yeah. Walk right out on it. And the hard part is I don't remember it at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And. And honestly, that, in a strange way, that makes it worse.

[Marcus]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because she doesn't know what else you're going to do and forget if you were able to say, okay, I've been telling you for a year, I don't remember. I do, I do, I do. I did. That is, in a strange way, is more comforting than I sometimes drink something, smoke something, snort something, whatever. Somebody puts them in my drink. Whatever happened, there are places I go and I don't even remember what happened. I can burn our marriage to the ground and just be like, I don't even remember it.

[Marcus]

I understand how it comes off that way. I never thought about it that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're.

[Marcus]

You're right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But here's, here's the whole thing. None of that matters.

[Marcus]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you want to take a knee in front of this woman, not so that you can save face, not so that you don't have to go back to your family or look at your mama in the eyes or look at your community or look at your dad shaking his head at you like he may have done your whole life. Like, not for all that. But you look at her and say, I want to rebuild a life with you. What can I do today to make you feel loved? Because here's what she is feeling. I'd be willing to bet. And she's not on the phone, so I'm just projecting into her mind, but I'd be willing to bet she sees you doing so much amazing work on you and she sees you doing so much stuff for you and you're still concerned what people and the outside world are going to think about you. And what I just imagine, I got a nine year old little girl, I just imagine her, my daughter standing in the middle of my living room saying, but daddy, I'm right here.

[Marcus]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm imagining your wife and I know it's father, daughter, I made it weird just then, but I'm like, your wife is standing in the middle of your house and saying, I see you roofing the house and painting the house and changing the carpet. I am right here. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Marcus]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I never thought of it that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The honorable thing, if you don't want to be married to her, tell her and live in the aftermath. But there is not an amount of work you can do on you that's going to suddenly make her feel more beautiful to you. And there's not a, there's not an amount of counseling and insight and dealing with family trauma and money you can make. There's none of that is going to make you get up and make her coffee in the morning because you love her and make you throw your phone away and have no social media because you don't care what the outside world thinks. Because I got her.

[Marcus]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And even if you don't feel that you can work towards that, those feelings come and go, man. I've been married for a quarter century. It's part of it. They come and they go. That's where the discipline of just doing the next right thing is kind of like exercise. Like they just stay on a lift, but you just do it because it's what you're going to do that day.

[Marcus]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if you're out on her, man, what I would tell you is you've done all this work, be a person of high integrity and tell her, I'm out. If you're in. Then you take a knee in front of your wife and say, tell me what I need to do. What will make you feel safe in your own home? We've been together for a year and I would tell her, you can't weaponize sex if you say, I'm going to stay. Sex and intimacy is part of a marriage. And it might take time and it might take healing and it might take a bunch of stops and starts, but retribution for a year or two years or five years, starving your partner sexually because you did this one thing that's not Going to work in a marriage either. That's about power. Right?

[Marcus]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if she is telling you I still don't feel safe in this. In this relationship, marriage, there's no way I'm gonna sleep with you again. Right. Only you know that. Only she knows that. Right. I'm speculating here.

[Marcus]

Right. Right. I mean, you're. You're. You're spot on, though.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let me ask you, do you want to be married to her?

[Marcus]

I do. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you willing to sacrifice your reputation and your ego and some egg on your face for a while to take your knee in front of your wife and say, I love you, and how can I love you today?

[Marcus]

Absolutely. I feel like that will probably be one of the most freeing experiences that I've ever had in my life, because my insecurities have bogged me down and have always got me in terrible situations my entire life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tonight, you sit down with your wife and you clear the table, and you have nothing between the two of you. And I want you to tell your wife, for the last year, I've worked really hard. I've gone to a lot of therapy. I've seen a psychiatrist. I've done this. I've done coaching, and I've done this for me. And starting today, everything about my marriage will be waking up and saying, how can I love you? And all I'm going to ask you, sweetheart, is you begin to do the same for me.

[Marcus]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And listen, man, that's the only way it works.

[Marcus]

I understand. I understand completely. Thank you so much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, thank you, man. You call anytime, and we'll get you on. Appreciate you honoring me and all of our listeners with your bravery, my friend. Thank you so much for the call. Hey, coming up next, a woman wonders if it's time to cut off the in laws for good. We'll be right back. All right, here's a quick word about the best mattress in the world, Helix Mattresses. Spring is here, and that means the darkness and the cold are finally lifting, and we can get back into the swing of things. Spring break, summer plans. I feel like I'm coming back to life. So let's reset. Most of us have blown our resolutions, so let's reset. Let's make today day one for a new great year. Top of the list of a reset. Great sleep. Great sleep is the foundation for everything in our lives. And this is where my friends at Helix Mattresses come in. I've slept on everything. Cheap mattresses, bad hotel mattresses, hunting camp, sleep pads, overpriced mattresses. You name it. But when I switched to my Helix mattress everything changed. I now fall asleep faster, I sleep deeper and I wake up feeling rested, restored and ready to go. And because every person is different, Helix has a mattress designed just for you. Side sleeper, back sleeper. You sleep hot. Your spine needs a little extra care. Whatever it is, Helix has you covered. Get online and take the Helix Sleep quiz. I did it and it takes less than two minutes and it will help you find the perfect mattress and Helix gives you a hundred nights to try it all out risk free. And right now my audience gets 27% off site wide plus a free bedding bundle with any luxe or elite mattress purchase. Go to helixsleep.com DeLoney right now and if you get a post purchase survey tell them you heard about it on this show. Go to helix sleep.com DeLoney go right now helixsleep.com DeLoney with Helix, better sleep starts right now. I have been loving red light therapy and EMF blocking gear for years. And that's why I'm super excited to tell you about my new partner, Bon Charge. Our lives are lived almost entirely inside under the harrowing glow of fluorescent lights in front of little bitty screens that we carry around with us. Medium sized screens, giant screens. All this stuff affects our mood, our sleep, our anxiety and the studies are showing it. And this is why I love Bon Charge. Bon Charge is a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use their red light therapies every single day. Red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress and help with your sleep. I use my red light therapy panels, infrared sauna blanket, my EMF mat all of the time. And listen up. If your skin looks tired, I want you to check out Bond Charge's red light mask for skin recovery, collagen production and improve blood flow. Just wear it 10 minutes a few times a week for fresher skin. Super easy. No creams or appointments. It's lightweight and it's cordless and it can change everything. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15%. That's B O N C-H-A-R-G-E.com DeLoney and use coupon Code DeLoney to save 15%. All right, we're back. Don't forget Kansas City tonight. Come out you guys got you need some redemption Kansas City. Y' all need some redemption Tonight we're going to do it as I'm reading this ad I'm reading this ad a few weeks early I think it's pretty close to sold out. We're getting close on Kansas City, so if there's tickets available, come see, see us. It's going to be wheels off, me and my buddy Dave Ramsey. The Money Relationships tour cannot wait. I love, love, love Kansas City. Even though y' all let the Eagles win. I love, love Kansas City. And we're gonna make it right tonight. Come check it out. All right, let's go to Akron, Ohio, and talk to not so plain Jane. What's up, Jane?

[Jane]

Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Outstanding. How are you?

[Jane]

Oh, I'm just perfect. You know, that's why I'm calling you. I have no problems. Yeah, obviously not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've got tons of problems. What's. What's your problems? Let them rip. Let them rip, Jane.

[Jane]

Yeah, well, the. One of the biggest ones currently, my father and mother have recent. My mother and father in law have recently cut ties with us because we are just really hesitant to jump back into resolving a very long, ongoing issue or issues that we've had with them since we were married about a year ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What was the original issue?

[Jane]

Oh, dear. So I kind of wrote a summary and I can try to give you the story. There's just so much to the story. I'll start by also saying that I know what I'm about to say is going to sound like something straight off of Reddit, like something made it up. That's how we feel, too, and it's our life. So I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll trust you and honor the story. Go for it.

[Jane]

Yeah. So a little over a year ago, my husband and I got married. And while things were initially great with my in laws, tensions began to rise midway through our engagement. I think my mother in law ultimately struggled with the transition of my husband leaving home. He still lived at home at the time, so she was upset that we were not like spending enough time with them while he was still living at home, even though we were still coming over two to three times a week during the last two months of our engagement.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you guys?

[Jane]

So at the time, my husband was 22, about to be 23, and I was 24, about to join him at 5.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Yeah.

[Jane]

So anyway, three weeks before the wedding, she completely lost it and she actually physically attacked my husband and used horrible vulgarities to describe her feelings to him about me. She threatened to object to the wedding and told him that she was praying that we would break up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why?

[Jane]

Accused him?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you say why? Hold on, let's let on the Story? Why?

[Jane]

Yeah. So to the part where it sounds like I'm lying to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, trust me. I've heard wild stories in my life.

[Jane]

Yeah. She said that I was a master manipulator and I was trying to take my husband away from his family. And the reason she gave for this was because I acted uncomfortable in her home. But she didn't really correlate that to the fact that, like, she was not treating me very nice from the house during our measurement.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so there's a whole bunch. Let's just pause right there. Okay. Let's just pause right there. Exhale for me.

[Jane]

Okay. Yeah. Well. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now listen. That's bonkers.

[Jane]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And even when another adult, especially somebody who's like a parent, a parent, a beloved one, or a teacher or a coach, they can say stuff and do stuff. That's bananas. I don't know how or why. There's still this nagging voice inside of us. It's like, are they right?

[Jane]

Yeah. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so sometimes one of the most gracious things I can offer somebody, any of us can offer each other, is just to look at somebody. And so I can't see you, but I'm. I'm hearing you, Jane. You're not crazy.

[Jane]

Sometimes feel that way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you do. I know you do. When this stuff happened, did your husband immediately intervene on your behalf?

[Jane]

He tried to the best way he knew how. Unfortunately, the behaviors of his mother and father were something that were normal to him. And I think he didn't really understand fully. You know what I mean? And it did cause a lot of issues for us, I'll be honest. And, you know, I'm so thankful that we. We fought for each other and we came through, but it was so, so hard because I. I did. I felt crazy and I felt like, you know, he was kind of unsure how to handle the situation fully. And since we've, you know, we'll get into that. We've been trying to move forward, but. Yeah, it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So let me just. Let me cut through all of this and just put this on the table. Unless your mother in law has called, preferably with your father in law by her side, and said, hey, my 22 year old man. I looked at him like he was a little boy and you were taking my little boy. And I went bananas. I'm sorry.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You didn't deserve that. I was. I was crazy. I'm sorry. That won't happen again. I'm glad you're. I'm glad y' all are Married. I'm glad y' all working it out and figuring it out. And short of that, Jane, I rarely say this, y' all. She's out. No one. My mom, my dad, whoever included, is gonna, like, verbally assault my wife and hit me in the face. I'm not gonna stick around for it.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And unless you come back to the table with, I was way out of line. I was wrong. Here's how this is not gonna happen again. There's just some lines that you draw on the sand. Because here's what most. Most of the time, I hear this story. Here's what can I. Because I'm gonna lay a few things out. You tell me if I'm. If I'm way out to lunch or if I'm right. You mentioned one of them. This is just how he grew up. This is normal to him. And so you find yourself almost in a re. Parenting role with your own husband saying, hey, you can't do that. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know it. So it takes a minute, and God bless you for staying with him and y' all figuring this thing out together. But most of the time, there's a long lull, and then mom or dad just picks up the phone and kind of jumps back in as though nothing ever happened.

[Jane]

Or that's exactly what's going on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Somebody gets pregnant and suddenly. Oh, they're back in. Or somebody gets a new job and starts to move, and it's like, oh, is any of that happening?

[Jane]

The first two. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Okay. So now, like, they want back in.

[Jane]

Yeah. So to try to sum up, over the course of the last year, like, last spring and summer, we tried continuously to reach out and talk to them, and every time, we were met with hostility. They think they're blameless. They think that everything they did was justified and that we were the villains in the story.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so is his dad like that, too? Or his dad just beaten down and goes along with whatever she says?

[Jane]

Correct. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What a coward. Yeah. What an absolute coward.

[Jane]

I agree. It's. I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not my story. Not my story. Not there. Okay.

[Jane]

We found out we were pregnant last. Last September. And so at that point, we were like, oh, no. Because we figured we knew that they wanted grandkids put that way, but we obviously were still dealing with the behaviors that we're talking about. So we try to invite them to meet us in a public place, and we wanted to try to, you know, talk calmly, try to address their feelings, you know, try to talk about ours, try to reach common ground, if that makes sense. And that did not last long. They quickly resorted to yelling and accusing us of, you know, being the bad guys. And she actually, my mother in law left after about five minutes of them screaming at us. She left there and told us that they were happier not talking to liars. So that was okay. At this point. I was like eight weeks pregnant.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, but what is it about? Why won't you accept that for the period at the end of the sentence that it is?

[Jane]

Well, I think the bottom line is that, you know, obviously we love them and we don't want to just give them up and act like you didn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They gave you up.

[Jane]

I would agree with that. I would.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But stop chasing.

[Jane]

Easy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Stop chasing them. It's. It's not easy, but it's simple.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You guys got to stop chasing them. They're telling you over and over, we don't want a relationship with you. So much so that we will assault you, will scream at you, will lie about you. We don't want to be in relationship with you. You being, I think, two independent thinkers. Two independent people. We do want you in relationship with us. When we can control you and you do what we say and you make us feel good by all of your actions bowing to what we want. Then they want you in relationship. They do not want an independent couple. They don't want to be relationship. I mean, she got up and left and said, I don't want to be in a relationship with you.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I also get that's not how it's supposed to be.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're. Nobody is. There's nothing could get in the way of your grandkids. Here we are.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In their own ego. Or her like mental health disorder or her emotional challenges or your father in law's spinelessness that he hasn't looked at her and said, hey, you cannot hang out with him. I will go see my grandbaby and I will be nice to my daughter, my son's wife. It will cost you when you get home. Fine. I'm not giving this up. He could do that, but he's choosing not to.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I think that's this idea. Like we got to live in reality. This is where we are. Has your baby been born?

[Jane]

I'm due in about a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you do me a huge, huge favor here? I know this is crazy. Can you not try to solve their problem right now? This is too special of a moment for you.

[Jane]

Unfortunately, we felt that way for most of the big life. Events. That was how our wedding was. I know now it's the baby too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here's an exercise that I'm stealing from Terry Real. Okay. One of the great psychotherapists of, of my time. I want you to get a picture of your mother in law and I want you to put her at the kitchen table with you when you'll have dinner. And then when you're talking about the pregnancy, you're talking about what we're going to do. I want you to look over at that framed picture and go, what do you think? Because we like having you with a seat at the table. And then y' all will both go, oh, God. And you'll flip it. You'll immediately flip it over. But that's the, that's the entry to the practice of. Instead of trying to figure out what's the new right way, I can say this or what's the new way I can tiptoe into the living room. What's the new way I. It's not about you. She isn't well. And so for the first time, are, are your parents in the picture?

[Jane]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We. We have a healthy relationship with mindset and amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let's exhale, let's grieve with your husband. Can we just put it out there? Sit on the front porch, look out into the stars and just be like, I'm sorry.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And let's be really, really grateful that we're fortunate and privileged to have your parents in the game, rocking and rolling, doing their part, loving you guys, supporting y' all. It's the best first time grandparents can do it. Right. You know what I mean? And let's spend the last month just absorbed in each other in the madness and excitement that we're bringing a new baby home.

[Jane]

It's hard, you know, it's very sad. I hate the statistics of, you know, the in laws and evil daughter in laws and I, I don't want that to be a reality. I didn't want any of this to be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Not by your hand. Not by your hand, but in your lap. Here it is.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Let's be sad for a bit. Write an imaginary letter to your mother in law. God help you. Don't send it. Have your, your husband write one to his mom and you all read them to each other. Let's have a miniature little ceremony in our living room. This is, this is the last day they get a seat at our kitchen table because they're taking the joy out of what should be one of the most exciting Scary, terrifying, fun, joyful moments of our life.

[Jane]

I have a follow up question if that's possible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Real quick. I'm up against the clock. Go for it.

[Jane]

Yeah. So we're currently. We started going to counseling, just the two of us, trying to kind of sort through all this and you know, it's kind of been an idea of my husband's that like we could potentially still be around them in extended family settings for the sake of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no.

[Jane]

Can I ask why you'd say no to that? Like, what's the reason for that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because they will poison the whole. You're.

[Jane]

We just feel like we've lost that entire side. Do you know you have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They took it from you.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And your husband has spent his whole life trying to solve his mom's issues and his dad's cowardice. And if, if aunts and uncles are amazing and awesome and don't carry your mom's same challenges and they want to meet you guys. That's awesome. Cool. Great. But if she won't even have more than a five minute conversation with her pregnant daughter in law and her son who's about to be a first time dad without screaming and yelling and stomping off, it's just going to blow those events up too.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or you don't know the poison she's putting in the well. Talking about to all the cousins and her brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles or whatever's on that side of the family. Oh my gosh. You don't know her. You have no idea. You know what she's. And just like I'm opting out. I love you guys. If, if cousins, if you want to come visit the baby, you're welcome to, you're welcome to come. I'd love to have you here. Y' all cut. Y' all can come here to us. That'd be great. We'll send photos and we're not going to cut people off like I'm going to. I'll send photos. That's great. I'll send a monthly newsletter with like, I'll do all that. That's fantastic. I'm not gonna drive over there. It's just not a safe place for us. She hit me in the face. She called me a blankety blank blank. Call my wife a blankety blank blank blank. Yeah, I'm not gonna. We're not coming there. She screamed and made a spectacle in a public place, called us liars and walked away from her own kid. I'm gonna do that. That's cool. I've already grieved that at my house. As for me, in my house, we're going to seek peace. We're going to be sad that it's not with the people we thought were going to be with us, but they opted out. And so we're going to control. We can control, and that is peace in our home. And that means my side of the family is awesome and if there's some great cousins or whatnot, cool. But you guys are still trying to find a way. What's a way we can kind of be around them. But also they're telling you over and over again we don't want to be in relationship with you, period. Must be really sad and grieved that. Let's not find another, like, angle to try to make. They've told you over and over and over again. And for whatever it's worth, I'm really, really sorry that happened. Coming up next, we're going to talk to a family trying to figure out how to navigate how to approach a very, very sensitive topic with their oldest son. We'll be right back. All right, good folks, let me tell you about Delete Me. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away. We can all pretend that scrolling and emailing and buying things online and everything that we watch online, we can. We can just pretend and go on about our lives as though every single thing we're doing online isn't being monitored. And we can pretend that our personal information isn't being taken and sold to scumbags on the Internet. But. But pretending it's not real doesn't make it true. The truth is, the digital world is the Wild west, and it's a place where your information is bought and sold and stolen most of the time without you ever even knowing. Think about it. Have you ever gotten a sketchy email that somehow knew way too much about you? Or have you ever had your phone just blown up with robocalls? That's not bad luck. That's your personal information being sold on the Internet. And right now, spammers and scammers are hungry to cash in on it unless you do something. That's why I use and recommend Delete Me. Delete Me scours the Internet to find your data and remove it from creepy data broker websites. They've reviewed over 35,000 sites for me and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours. When you sign up with DeleteMe, it's decluttering your digital life and removing a source of anxiety at the Same time. Stop scammers and spammers before the problems start and take back control with delete me. Get protected with delete me today and get 20% off all of the delete me plans. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney right now. That's join J-O-I-N JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney Chattanooga, Tennessee. Let's talk to Alex. What's up, Alex?

[Alex]

Hey, Dr. John. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Rocking. On to the break. Dawn, what are you up to?

[Alex]

I'm partying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent. Good. What's up?

[Alex]

So I've got a question for you and if it's okay, I'll ask my question first and I can give you a little bit of background.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure thing. Go for it.

[Alex]

So my question is, how can my husband and I best navigate honesty and transparency with our oldest son, who is biologically mine but has been adopted by my husband. About his background while keeping him from feeling alienated from his siblings.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me more.

[Alex]

So when I was 22, I was raped and as a result got pregnant with my now six year old. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nightmare.

[Alex]

Yeah, it was. Through a lot of healing, I've managed to kind of cope with that. And so that's as far as where I stand with all that. It's all good and well, but where I'm struggling is my husband and I. My husband's amazing. He adopted my son not long after we got married. That was like our second order of business.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old was your son?

[Alex]

How old was he when we got married? He was three.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Alex]

So where's my wedding? He has never been around, never wanted to be around. And to be honest with you, I've never wanted him around.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did he sign over full custody? He's out, out, out.

[Alex]

Yep. Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Was he prosecuted?

[Alex]

No, we went through a really lengthy legal battle to get adoption of my son. Sorry if I'm stuttering. I'm a little nervous.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, you're good. You're good.

[Alex]

And this whole situation is a little stressful, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, take your time. You're good.

[Alex]

Yeah. So we. We could have prosecuted him. I chose not to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Alex]

That was totally my choice. And I don't. You know, that's a different call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Alex]

But he. He did sign over his rights and has no access to my son. And my son has been legally adopted by my hus. Husband. We all have the same last name.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Alex]

So we have since had twins. So I have one year old twins as well. And we want to do the Best that we can by our son, by being honest and transparent with him. He knows that he's adopted, and he has very positive memories around, like, our final court hearing. And the way that we've framed it to him is actually language I've taken from you. Listening to your show. We've always explained it to him that my husband chose him and was so excited to be his dad because he's so special. But as far as his biological dad, he doesn't know anything about any of that yet. And I want to be honest with him, but I want to do it at the right time in the right way, and I don't want him to feel different from our other two children.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I, I. Right now, he's 6. You said say that one more time.

[Alex]

He is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. The burden of that story is squarely on your shoulders. It's not on him.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. The angst you feel starting to kind of well up is in your chest, not in his yet. Okay. Does he, does he know that his, that you, you made him with another guy and that guy made some really bad choices?

[Alex]

No, he doesn't understand that, like, on a, like, anatomical, like, biological level, he doesn't understand that. He, he knows that when he was born, it was just me and him and that I met his dad, my husband, when he was a toddler, but he doesn't know anything beyond that at this point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you would probably not always, but probably be astonished with what he does and doesn't know.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. It's just, it's amazing to me how kids pick stuff up and they pick up glances and eyebrows. Like, they're just. That's what they do. Right. They're very attuned. And that also means you had a pretty stressful pregnancy. Fair.

[Alex]

Very. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So. So he, he bathed in that, if that makes sense.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Like, he lived inside of a very stressful situation.

[Jane]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So as you begin to have the body parts talk and the, the mommy parts and the daddy part, like, as you begin to have that conversation, I'll give you a couple of, like, guidelines on. Here's a couple of lines just to have in your pocket. Here's a couple of. I would call them principles, just, like, some guiding principles. Okay. That will navigate this. But let me, like, rest in peace. Six is way too early for this conversation.

[Alex]

That's kind of what I assume. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I actually got a heads up on just kind of like a high level of what your call was about. And I called Two different amazing Dr. Lynn Jennings and Dr. Michael Gomez, two. Very accomplished. Accomplished. Both of them are mentors of mine, but very accomplished psychologists and therapists, respectively, who work with. I mean, in this situation over and over and over again, this is what they dedicate their life to. And so both of them gave me very similar, like, very, like, just right down the. Down the line. Here's some very clear things about how you can just walk through this process with your head held high. Okay.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that cool?

[Alex]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So before we get going, if I tell you something, say, I promise I'll believe you.

[Alex]

I promise I'll believe you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

By the way, that's ridiculous. You can't. You've done a pretty remarkable, amazing job with this little one.

[Alex]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And there's that haunting.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to know that he doesn't carry that.

[Jane]

I appreciate that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He will at some point. Okay. I don't. I don't want to, like, lie to you when he's 12. It's gonna be tough, but right now, he doesn't carry that. Is he so excited to be a big brother?

[Alex]

Oh, he loves it. Loves it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One gift you can give him. And I learned this from an old counseling professor of mine. She was amazing. Call them his kids.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or use. Use his brother and sister. Like, hey, your brother and sister. And it gives a six year old, especially an untethered six year old like he is sometimes. It gives them the greatest gift in the world, which is purpose, autonomy, and ownership.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So that's just a. That's just. That's not why you called. But that's just a thing like, hey, these are your brother and sister. Do you know what? You are a big brother. And amazing. Amazing. Okay? So when the conversation comes up, when he one day says, but who put. Who put the baby in you? Mommy? When he asked that question.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You say another man did. Where is he? He made some bad choices, and so he doesn't get to see us anymore. And really quickly, if your husband is there, yours, your son's adoptive father, this amazing guy. If he's there, great. If he's not, great. But here's a remarkable line that Dr. Jennings gave me that I love it, and I will repeat it a thousand times. You ready for this line?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When he. Your husband, takes a knee in front of this little boy and says, I wasn't there. I wasn't a part of making you, but I got here as fast as I could. And then the exhale. And then you hug him and say, I got to you as fast as I could because you're my, you're my son. And that's a conversation for a 6 year old, an 8 year old. Things get more complex when they're 9 and 10, but you're probably in the range of 16, 17, 18. Sometimes you have a sophisticated 14 or 15 year old, sometimes it's a little bit slower, but you're getting older. When you get into, all right, we need to go out and have a hard conversation, okay? And by the way, even then, there may come a time when, I mean, think about it this way. Think about if your twins came to you and said, hey, when you walk me through the night, you and dad rocked it on to the break of dawn and got pregnant. Like, you're not gonna do that, right? You'd be like, no. And so similarly, just because it was a tragic circumstance, we're still not gonna walk through step by step by step, okay? But there may come, there will come a time when you sit down and say, you're dead. It's a. Made some bad choices. I know, I know. You always say he's bad. What does that even mean? All right, when I'm ready, I'm gonna have this, I'll tell you, and we're gonna go out and we're gonna sit somewhere in a corner booth somewhere and.

[Alex]

I'm gonna tell you what happened, okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it, that's gonna be a harder conversation. And I'd strongly recommend, as you enter into that world, you sit with a counselor. And what I would say is, you, you're going to rehearse that one, okay? Just to make sure I've got a couple of clear statements. But you're, I mean, you're talking several years from now. Here's the magic important part, okay? When Your kid is 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, the shorter the conversation, the better.

[Alex]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Most adults want to have big two long hour conversations unpacking what happened and why. And oh my gosh, I'm so grateful you're here. I'm gonna tell you the details, but I want you to know your importance. He made some bad choices and so he got in trouble and he's not allowed to come here anymore. And your daddy wasn't a part of making you, but he got here as fast as he could because he could not wait to be your daddy. Big hug. Conversation's over. And if you have an astute 6 year old or 7 year old like I did, he may ask a couple follow up questions. Awesome. But I'm gonna let him ask the next follow up questions. What did he do? Oh, he did some grown up stuff. We'll talk about it one day when you're older. Okay. Okay, now here's the big magic moment here that I need you to metabolize. Okay. You're gonna want to get. I hate to use this language, but hopefully. Know what I mean? It's not perfect language, but you're going to want to get this out in an. In an effort to be, quote, unquote, as transparent and honest as you can with this kid.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if we're really honest, what we want is you want to get this out and I kind of want you to carry this now.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to never put that on him because it's not his to carry.

[Alex]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's where this. Go ahead. Go ahead.

[Alex]

Go ahead.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was gonna say.

[Alex]

I was just gonna. Yeah, you go ahead. You're good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Jinx. This will get hard. And this is me just being as honest as I can and I wouldn't have a lot of time. I normally wouldn't tell you this in the first session. Okay. I would tell you later, but this will get hard as he starts to look like that guy.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And did you date this guy? Was it a one night stand? Was it out of the blue, like.

[Alex]

No. So he was with a. A group of friends that I was also with. I have. I had never met him before and he kind of sought me out and put something in my drink. I was young and stupid and I haven't seen him again since then. Yeah. And so I think what I was gonna say is, I think my biggest fear, because I've heard you talk before on your show and just from other people I know that have been adopted. I think I've always just gotten the message that secrets are. They'll destroy families. And so what, what my fear is, I don't want my son to be an adult one day and feel like I lied to him or, you know, if he doesn't have a clear picture of the situation that I kept him from his biological dad or anything like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no. Here's. Here's. Like your question is so great. And I'm going to give you the. The words of Dr. Jennings and I love this, when they're young, always tell the truth and tell them something they can hear that they can. That they can actually digest. Right. But here's the big. Because the six year old's not going to understand what rape and assault is. Yeah, right. Doesn't even know the body parts yet. Like they don't even know how that works yet, so they're not going to know that. And it would be overwhelming for a six year old to just be said, like, there was a really violent interaction and. Right.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here's. Here's the magic line that Dr. Jennings gave me that I love. Start with a story that you can always build on, and that's it. I don't know. That sounds simple, but the secret is not telling anybody anything. Not telling him. You're. No. You weren't adopted. You're one of us. That will fester.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, your bio dad was amazing. He went off to sea and we never saw him again. That will f. That will fester. Right?

[Jane]

For sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Daddy made some bad choices, so he got in trouble. Then two years later, yeah, dad made some choices. He broke the law. Had to go to jail or. He broke the law. What?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you got all of the best. Best parts of him, but he made some real bad choices and got in big trouble. Then two or three years later, he had to go to jail, like, well, no, I didn't press charges. What do you do to. You is. It was pretty tough. It was real tough stuff. It was a bad deal. What is it? It was a bad deal. I'm not comfortable talking about it with you yet. I'm waiting to get a little bit older. You see how we're always building on this story? We've never lied, we never kept secrets, but we're not just going to dump the whole thing because a 6 year old, a 14 year old can't carry that.

[Alex]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's where some. Here's where some external language in other areas right now. Just y' all continue to use the line over and over and over. My job is to keep you safe.

[Alex]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's just a line. Always. And then, like, I've told my son that since he was zero, told my daughter that since she was zero. They rolled her eyes out of the back of their heads and repeated after me. But then when my son was like, dad, I want Snapchat, I said, hey, what's my one job? Oh, God. He'll keep me safe. Okay, well, when you were a kid, it was not falling off a ladder. Now it is not letting predators come into your. Into your house. Our house.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so when you sit down and he's 15 and he's already 17, he's like, why didn't you ever tell me that I have one job? What was my one job? Oh, are you serious? Keep me safe. Yes. Keep you safe. That's too much for. And you see what I'm saying? You've laid the groundwork now that these other, Other principles that we have for raising you guys is we're always going to tell you the truth, but we're also not going to just bury you in details. It's not for you. And by the way, you can tell a 17 year old, a 22 year old, I made a call. Are you serious? You didn't put him in jail? I made a choice when I was 22. You're gonna judge her like parents are allowed to do that?

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you tell me? Till I was 17, because I made a choice. And that's sometimes enough. That's often enough. But we're going to tell a story that we can always build on. I wasn't a part of making you, but I got to you as fast as I could because you're my son and you got the very, very best parts. Your daddy, he did some bad stuff. So he got in trouble and can't see us anymore. Yeah, it's a bummer. And we're gonna start there. And they probably will never, ever need the nitty gritty. There'll probably never be a day when you sit down with this, with this grown man and say, he put something in my drink. Maybe not. For that's. That's way down the road right now. He just needs to know, minute by minute, you're my son. I love you to the end of the earth and back. To the moon and back. Thank you for the call, Alex. You're awesome. We'll be right back. All right, so Easter has come and gone again. And just like there's no finish line for your physical health or your mental and emotional well being, there's no finish line for being still and intentional about gratitude, about growing in your faith, or about building a relationship with God. And this is good news. Intentionality about spiritual matters is a practice, and any time can be a new starting point. So if you committed to consistent prayer, gratitude, or a practice of reflection during Lent, I want to encourage you to keep going. These small daily habits add up to a transformed life. For my daily practice, I personally use Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. It's a great tool to help me stay connected, to help me slow down, and to help me be grateful. Whether it's guided meditation, music, or scripture readings, Hallow helps me stay mindful even. Even when life's gone bonkers. So set reminders, carve out time, and keep Leaving space for your faith with Hallow. When you sign up right [e-mail] Deloney, you'll get three months for free. So even if you missed out on lint, it's still a great time to start again. Go to hallow.com that's h a l l o w hallow.com Deloney for three months for free. All right, we're back. Hey, Kelly, what if we just, like, called it? What if we're just like, you know what? You look beautiful today. Ben, you look great. Kelly, number two. Awesome. Andrew, you look great. What if we just called it this? This is a rough one.

[Elsa]

Yeah. For those that don't know, we recorded two shows back to back, so we've been in here for about three hours, and we're all a little.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

These were two heavy shows back then.

[Elsa]

Yeah. A little fried around the edges, so I'm good with that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm fried right in the middle. It's all good.

[Elsa]

Wherever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I said that. As weird as a God. So awkward.

[Elsa]

Yep. But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Elsa]

But I'm good with that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everybody. Love you guys back in the booth. Everybody listening to the show. Go outside, see the sunlight. Be kind to each other. Love y' all. Bye.