I Just Discovered My Husband’s Affair

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show
Episode Title: I Just Discovered My Husband’s Affair
Release Date: May 15, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony | Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally-charged episode, Dr. John Delony takes listener calls addressing major relationship and mental health crises. The segment begins with Evangeline from Phoenix, AZ, reeling after learning of her husband’s affair just after their first anniversary. Dr. Delony unpacks the layers of trauma, betrayal, and self-doubt, offering practical and compassionate advice. Later, calls cover intergenerational trauma and caregiver resentment, as well as supporting a partner through severe depression and suicidality. The discussion culminates in a clear, relatable explanation of “mental load” and its impact on relationships.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Confronting Infidelity: Evangeline’s Story

[01:23 – 14:00]

Background

• Evangeline (Phoenix, AZ) discovers her husband has been cheating, one week after their one-year anniversary.
• She followed her intuition, checked his locked phone, and installed a recording device in the car, confirming the affair.
• Her husband initially lies, then confesses and begs for another chance.

Main Discussion Points

• Trust and Truth:
  • Dr. Delony: “You can’t rebuild anything because it’s got to be rebuilt on a foundation of safety and trust. And if you don’t have that… you know.” [03:33]
• Modeling Healthy Relationships for Children:
  • Dr. Delony: “I don’t want your 16-year-old to think getting treated like this is normal… I don’t want her to have a model for this is what relationships are supposed to feel like inside of a home.” [04:02]
• Evangeline’s Shame & Embarrassment:
  • Dr. Delony: “Don’t be embarrassed… you became your own private investigator. It is what it is.” [05:08]
• Reluctance and Fear of Repeat Pain:
  • Evangeline expresses terror at starting over again after a previous painful divorce.
  • Dr. Delony: “If I choose to stay and I choose just to take his word for it, you’re never going to have peace. Ever… You’re going to choose the hell you know because the hell you don’t know is terrifying.” [08:20-08:39]
• Requirements for Rebuilding Trust:
  • Dr. Delony: “If it doesn’t start from a scorched earth honesty… I will own the bridge-building that has to happen here. You hand me a map and I’ll follow it…” [09:54]
  • Evangeline notes her husband still refuses phone transparency, confirming unwillingness to truly rebuild trust.
• Empowering Decision-Making:
  • Dr. Delony: “You don’t need my permission to leave. You don’t need my permission to stay.” [10:55]
  • Evangeline: “I just want the clarity… I’m not crazy.”
  • Dr. Delony: “You’re not crazy. No.” [11:13]
• Gaslighting and Minimization:
  • Evangeline’s husband accuses her of victimhood and “stirring the pot,” pressing for forgiveness after only a day.
  • Dr. Delony: “This is another example of Gaslight 101.” [11:42]
• Advice for Moving On:
  • Dr. Delony: “You blew up our home. You destroyed it. It’s gonna be a minute… The marriage y’all had doesn’t exist. It’s over.” [12:12]
  • He advises speaking with a lawyer, planning practical next steps, and putting lessons from her first divorce into action.
  • Dr. Delony: “You’re worth more than this. Your daughter’s worth more than this.” [13:31]

Notable Quotes

• “I am loyal to a fault.” – Evangeline [02:32]
• “…this marriage is over, we build another one, but this thing doesn’t exist. And in fact, if I look with clarity to the past, it’s never existed.” – Dr. Delony [07:03]
• “You're not crazy. And it’s not an unreasonable request to say, hey, let me see your phone.” – Dr. Delony [11:13]

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2. Caring for an Abusive Parent: Jackie’s Story

[16:46 – 33:34]

Background

• Jackie (Toronto, ON) cares for her 88-year-old mother who had a stroke, but struggles with resentment due to childhood trauma—her parents forced her and her sister to attend a nudist camp as children and gaslit them about it.

Main Discussion Points

• Naming the Abuse:
  • Dr. Delony: “That is horrific abuse. That goes well, well beyond vulnerable.”
• Body Shame and Intimacy Challenges:
  • Jackie describes persistent body shame and discomfort with intimacy, linked directly to her childhood experiences.
• Permission to Heal Regardless of Age:
  • Dr. Delony: “I don’t care how old you are, you’re worth being unshackled from the abuse and the madness you experienced as a little girl.” [21:11]
• Assignment for Healing:
  • He urges Jackie to find a trauma therapist: “I want you to call that trauma therapist and say you grew up in an abusive, sexually abusive household, and you’re ready, once and for all, to be free.” [22:01]
• Christianity and Caregiver Resentment:
  • Dr. Delony: “There is nothing unchristian about being frustrated… You’re not a bad person… You’re a human being.”
• Intergenerational Patterns:
  • Explores possible reasons for her mother’s passivity and inability to protect her children.
• Who Do You Want to Be?
  • Dr. Delony: “At 61 years of age, who do you want to be in the world? Because I think the care of your mother moving forward is going to say a lot more about you than it does about her.” [25:31]
  • Jackie resolves to continue caring for her mother, deciding her actions will reflect her own values.
• Letting Go of Anger:
  • Dr. Delony: “If you’re not going to leave her, I would spend no more than 1.2 seconds a day being upset with her… it becomes a choice to be miserable doing the things you are already going to do today.” [29:58]
• Celebrating Self-Worth:
  • Dr. Delony: “I am gonna put three or four things I’m grateful for about me, and that’s not unchristian… For crying out loud, I can love me, too.” [30:54]
• Healing is Possible:
  • Dr. Delony: “What [trauma healing] will allow you to do is when you step out of the shower, your body won’t go into panic mode… It will be you being able to be reckless and uninhibited with this new husband of yours who loves you like to the moon and back.” [31:22]

Memorable Moments

• Jackie: “Shackles is a great word to use. That’s exactly how I feel.” [22:19]
• Dr. Delony: “There is no freedom for a nine-year-old at a nudist colony… Your body has been trying to protect you for the last 50 years because there were no adults in your life that were going to protect you as they should.” [32:40]

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3. Supporting Spouses Through Severe Depression: Dan’s Story

[35:18 – 51:04]

Background

• Dan (Rochester, NH) calls about his wife of eight years, who struggles with escalating depression and suicidality, especially after high-risk pregnancies and postpartum depression. Dan recently interrupted a suicide attempt and feels powerless.

Main Discussion Points

• Medicalization of Mental Illness:
  • Dr. Delony: “If she had contracted stomach cancer, you would have that same feeling of powerlessness… [but] it would be minus the shame.” [38:21]
  • “She’s not well right now. And so the powerlessness is real.”
• Acute Risk and Next Steps:
  • Dr. Delony: “If you were a friend of mine, I would suggest she needs inpatient treatment right away… This is beyond pharmacology at this point. This is going to take a whole system of support.” [39:34]
• Invisible Wounds:
  • Dan: “With it being mental, it just is so hard because she can have good days… but I honestly believe she’s forgotten what it’s like to not feel hopeless and depressed.” [41:29]
• Normalization and Gaslighting:
  • Dr. Delony: “Nothing is normal. Everything’s different now. You walked in on your wife about to… die by suicide in front of your young child. There’s zero normal about that.” [42:59–43:12]
• Boldness and Boundaries:
  • Dr. Delony: “The boldness you need here is to remind her… The best way I can love you right now is to support you getting well. And the needs you have to get well exceed what anyone in this home can do.” [44:03]
• Hope as Action:
  • Dr. Delony: “I’ve come to believe hope is an action… I’m going to keep doing the next right thing because I believe in my guts it gets better, especially when I don’t feel like it.” [46:47]
• Practical Guidance:
  • Encourages Dan to mobilize his network for help, pursue inpatient care despite hardships, and focus on writing the next chapter instead of regrets.
• Ultimate Goal:
  • Dr. Delony: “If someone does go get the help they need, they come out with a whole new perspective on life and then they rebuild something amazing and cool. And this becomes an extraordinary story to tell your great grandkids one day.” [48:36]

Notable Quotes

• “You’re not crazy for being frustrated with the mental health support systems we have in this country.” – Dr. Delony [43:14]
• “Thank you for being a husband who loves his wife well, especially when she’s hurting, especially when it’s hard. You’re a good man, my brother.” – Dr. Delony [50:49]

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4. Understanding & Addressing Mental Load

[52:12 – 58:00]

Key Points

• Definition:
  • Dr. Delony: “Mental load is… everything that a spouse or person is carrying in the background… all the day-to-day responsibilities of life.”
• Gender Dynamics:
  • Often portrayed as a women’s issue, but Dr. Delony emphasizes men also carry a mental load—just different things (e.g., financial security, home safety).
• Identity and Letting Go:
  • Mental load can become part of one’s identity; letting others help may feel like giving up control.
• Practical Solutions:
  • He suggests regular reviews, sharing responsibilities, and using tools like their Together app to externalize and fairly divide the “mental load.”

Notable Quotes

• “Both of us are carrying stuff that the other person doesn’t understand that has varying levels of importance now and in some imaginary future.” – Dr. Delony [54:26]
• “Once my wife and I started sharing mental load stuff, it’s been transformative. We both walk lighter.” – Dr. Delony [57:12]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Dr. Delony: “The marriage y’all had doesn’t exist. It’s over. The question is, do you want to rebuild one with somebody who’s just going to be dismissive of you, treat you like you’re stupid, and get mad at you 24 or 48 hours after he gets caught lying?” [12:23]
• Jackie: “Shackles is a great word… That’s exactly how I feel.” [22:19]
• Dan: “I honestly believe she’s forgotten what it’s like to not feel hopeless and depressed.” [41:29]
• Dr. Delony: “Hope is an action. It’s not a feeling. It’s an orientation.” [46:47]

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Conclusion

In one of the show's most vulnerable, packed episodes, Dr. John Delony offers clarity, validation, and actionable support to listeners navigating infidelity, lifelong trauma, and mental illness within their families. The tone is direct yet deeply compassionate, emphasizing personal worth, radical honesty, and the courage to take the “next right step.” Whether rebuilding after betrayal, reclaiming dignity after abuse, or supporting a partner through mental health crises, Delony’s guidance is grounded in empathy, realism, and hope.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:23] – Evangeline discovers the affair; betrayal and trust discussion
• [04:00] – Modeling for children and defining “normal” in relationships
• [09:54] – How trust can be rebuilt (or why it may not be possible)
• [16:46] – Jackie’s account of trauma and resentment as a caregiver
• [21:11] – Delony’s challenge to Jackie: begin trauma therapy, claim your worth
• [35:18] – Dan calls in regarding his wife’s severe depression and suicidality
• [38:21] – Parallels to physical illness
• [44:03] – Setting boundaries, inpatient care, hope as action
• [52:12] – Dr. Delony explains “mental load,” shared family responsibilities

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If you’re facing similar struggles, Dr. Delony emphasizes: You are not crazy, you are not alone, and you are worthy of healing and peace.

Transcript

[Evangeline]

Foreign.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Evangeline]

I had had this gut feeling for a while, and so I'm not proud of it, but I put a recording, an audio recording device in our car, and he goes to Mexic on the weekend. I just heard all of the phone calls and the dates and everything.

[John DeLoney]

What up? What up?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This is John with the Dr. John

[John DeLoney]

DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health, on your marriages, your kids, your relationships, your dating, whatever you got going on in your world. Up a seat and we'll figure out what's the next right move. You want to be on this show? I'd love to have you on. Click the link in the show notes and it will send you to Kelly. And she is the overlord who decides with her scepter who gets in, who gets out. She controls the drawbridge. Let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona and talk to Evangeline. Hey, what's up, Eve? How we doing?

[Evangeline]

Hi. I'm okay. How are you doing?

[John DeLoney]

All right.

[Evangeline]

Good.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Things going okay?

[Evangeline]

Well, I found out on Monday that my husband has been cheating on me.

[John DeLoney]

Oh. So, no, yeah, not good.

[Evangeline]

One week after our one year anniversary.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

How'd you find out?

[Evangeline]

I had had this gut feeling for a while, and I checked his phone and everything had been locked, which was not the previous situation. And so I'm not proud of it, but I put a recording, an audio recording device in our car, and he goes to Mexico on the weekends and. Yeah, I just heard all of the phone calls and the dates and everything.

[John DeLoney]

Ugh.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Sorry.

[John DeLoney]

I hate this. For you.

[Evangeline]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

Thank you.

[John DeLoney]

How can I help?

[Evangeline]

So I am loyal to a fault. And when I confronted him with everything, at first he tried to downplay it and say, oh, we're just friends. But I heard very specific, like, I love yous and pet names. And that's what hurt the most, is that he was telling somebody else that he loved them. And he finally was just like, you're right, I messed up. He says, you know, like, I want to change and I want to make this better and I want it to work out. Can you ever forgive me? And it's just like, I'm a logical person and I just don't know if change is possible and how to like,

[Jackie]

believe that and move forward.

[John DeLoney]

Do you feel like you have the whole truth?

[Evangeline]

No.

[Jackie]

Okay.

[Evangeline]

And I don't think I'll ever get it.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, then you can't rebuild anything because it's got to be rebuilt on a foundation of safety and trust. And if you don't have that, um.

[Evangeline]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You know.

[Evangeline]

Right. And I have a 16 year old daughter. I don't want her to think that this is, you know, a normal way to handle this kind of situation.

[John DeLoney]

Well, there, there, there's not a normal way.

[Evangeline]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

There's the next right way.

[Jackie]

Right, Right.

[John DeLoney]

And so I think that I, I don't want your, your 16 year old to think getting treated like this is normal. All right. Because it's, it's. I mean. Yeah, it's not. It's. It's not. I don't want her to think this is good. Let's take the word normal off the table. I don't want her to think this is good. I don't want her to look up and see, like, I don't want to have a model for. This is what relationships are supposed to feel like inside of a home.

[Jackie]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

Right.

[Evangeline]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I don't want my mom having to worry if she's contracting an STI every other weekend.

[Evangeline]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

I don't want her to absorb seeing her stepdad flip over his phone every time somebody walks in the room.

[Evangeline]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Or his mom planting secret recording devices in the car. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah. I don't want her growing up in that.

[Evangeline]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

I don't, I don't want that for you.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Evangeline]

Right. And that's the thing. Like, I feel so embarrassed that that's what it came down to, but I knew I wouldn't get the truth.

[John DeLoney]

No, don't be. I mean, don't be embarrassed about. You did what you thought you had to do and you got the information you need and so.

[Evangeline]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You didn't hire a private investigator. You became one. It is what it is. So I,

[Evangeline]

I just feel really stuck in the way that, like, he apologizes and he makes it sound like so real, but I just can't. I can't trust it. I feel like after a year of. This is where we're already at.

[John DeLoney]

Did it happen before you got married?

[Evangeline]

I. I think he's probably done it before.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Evangeline]

Before we got. I just didn't know.

[John DeLoney]

What makes you think that?

[Evangeline]

Because I don't think you tell somebody that you love them, You know, just after a couple of dates or a couple of months.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

People say crazy Things you might not. Some people. Other people might. Right, so.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Evangeline]

But he and I didn't say that to each other a couple weeks after. You know, it took time. We built a relationship.

[John DeLoney]

And how long have y' all been together?

[Evangeline]

Three years.

[Jackie]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And you have a 16 year old daughter. Have you had your heart broken before?

[Jackie]

Oh, yeah.

[Evangeline]

I was married for almost 20 years to her father.

[Jackie]

Okay.

[Evangeline]

He was an alcoholic and that was a painful divorce. I have a 21 year old son as well, so.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so how much of this is. Oh, bloody hell, here we go again.

[Evangeline]

None of it. Because I really, in my heart of hearts, I really love him and.

[John DeLoney]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying how much of you wanting to hang on to this thing or even entertain it? Here's what you're telling me. You're telling me. I'm pretty sure this has happened while we were dating. I've got it confirmed that just one year into the marriage, he's already leaving and having secret, like, not only physical affairs, but like he's. His heart is with somebody else. And I'm not getting the full truth. I'll never get the full truth. So on that one side, you're telling me this, this marriage is over, we build another one, but this thing doesn't exist. And in fact, if I, if I look with clarity to the past, it's never existed. And so. But there's another side of you that has been through the hell, that is dividing up a family and moving and deposits and splitting like court call, like you've been down that road too. And that, that's what I'm asking. How much of that experience of like, oh God, we have to do that again, is clouding this situation?

[Evangeline]

Probably like 50.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Evangeline]

I'm terrified.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And so I want you to be honest about if, If I choose to stay and I choose just to take his word for it, you're never going to have peace, ever.

[Jackie]

Right?

[John DeLoney]

You know that, right? I know that. We all know.

[Evangeline]

Yeah, I know that.

[John DeLoney]

And if you choose to stay because of how hard and complicated and heartbreaking it would be to leave, I want you to just. That I'm gonna choose the hell I know, because of the hell that I don't know. And if somebody, I just don't.

[Evangeline]

I don't want to be, you know, I'm already 40, 45. I don't want to be 55, rebuilding my life again. I'd rather, you know, keep my peace and save myself all those years of

[Jackie]

heartache down the line.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I think that's right. Or if, I mean, yeah, if, if, if this. So let me, let me go at this problem from another angle. 100%. I believe couples who experience infidelity can come back together and build something new. I wouldn't do this show if I didn't believe that they can, they cannot. If it doesn't start from a scorched earth honesty. And if the other person doesn't wake up for an extended season saying, I will own the bridge building, that has to happen here. I imploded the trust. And so you hand me a map and I'll follow it. No Mexico for a year. Done. Easy. What's next? You know the passcode to my phone? Done. What's next? You want to pull credit report every two weeks to see if I have another phone line somewhere else? Done. Easy. What's next? Like, right?

[Evangeline]

Yeah, he's, he already won't let me look at his phone.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Then what he's telling you is you're stupid, I think you're dumb, and I don't care how you feel. Just trust me and let me live my life.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so I, I, I'll say it this way. The day of reckoning will come one way or the other. I'm with you. If the day of reckoning is coming, I'd rather have it happen now.

[Evangeline]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

So.

[Evangeline]

Right.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You, you have to get clear about

[John DeLoney]

what would be true, what must be true for him to do, to rebuild trust and hand him that piece of paper. And then he gets to be a big boy and decide he made big boy choice. Big boy choices. So he gets to be a big boy. A grown up man. Grown man. And make choices. I will not walk that path. Or I will walk that path.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And that's if you even want to stay.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

But you don't, you don't need, you don't need my permission to leave. You don't need my permission to stay.

[Evangeline]

Yeah. I just want the clarity. Like, I want somebody to, like, talk through it like this and, and tell me like, it's okay. I'm not crazy.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, you're not crazy. No.

[Evangeline]

Yeah, I'm not crazy. And it's not an unreasonable request to say, hey, let me see your phone.

[John DeLoney]

If someone's sneaking off to Mexico for romantic rendezvous with someone they say I love. No, not crazy.

[Evangeline]

Yeah. Because that's how he makes me feel. He says, I just want to be a victim and I want to stir the pot. And I'm like, this is literally like two days Old.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Evangeline]

I don't want to stir the. I want to feel safe.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, jeez. Yeah. This is another example of Gaslight101. I'm going to go do something, whatever I want, whenever I want. I'm going to blame you for feeling weird about it or bad about it or for challenging me on it. Yeah.

[Evangeline]

Yeah. His response was, we've already talked about this. I apologized. How long are you gonna make me pay for this? And I said, this is literally like two. This is. I told you on Saturday. Today's Sunday.

[John DeLoney]

Here's the language. You blew up our home. You destroyed it. It's gonna be a minute.

[Evangeline]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And if me talking about how much you hurt me and our daughter and how much you blew up our home, if. If that's such an affront to you, then I understand where. Where you place me in the order of importance of your life. But, yeah, I mean. I mean, the marriage I'll had doesn't exist. It's over. It's over. The question is, do you want to rebuild one with somebody who's just going to be dismissive of you, treat you like you're stupid, and get mad at you 24 or 48 hours after he gets caught lying? Well, I mean, that's. That's brazen, even for brazen folks. Wow. Yeah. I'm sorry. Sorry, Evangeline, That. That's heartbreaking. I. I think it would be wise to call an attorney and figure out where. What your. What the path looks like. And if you learned any lessons from your divorce, from your. From your first husband, make sure you put those on. Down on paper in front of your attorney. And I hate that you'll go through this again. I hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it. But you're worth more than this. Your daughter's worth more than this. This guy is worth more than this. What an absolute mess. Thanks for the call, sister. I'm so sorry. We'll be heartbroken with you when we come back. A woman asks how to care for her mother without resentment. After being forced wild things as a child,

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[John DeLoney]

deloney

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[John DeLoney]

all right, let's go out to Toronto, Ontario and talk to Jackie. Hey Jackie, what's up?

[Jackie]

Hi. How are you today?

[John DeLoney]

I'm doing okay, how are you?

[Jackie]

I'm going to get super vulnerable in a minute and it scares me to death. So I'm awesome. Pretty awesome. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Well, I am really honored that you called and I appreciate your willingness to be vulnerable. It's just you and me and a couple million other people. That's it.

[Jackie]

Okay. So my current situation is I have an 88 year old mom who had a stroke last year it was one year after my dad passed, which left her unable to speak. So I take care of her. She lives in an assisted living place, so I go over every day at lunch and make sure she has things, take her shopping, we go to church together and do all those things. And I find myself feeling resentful

[Dan]

because

[Jackie]

she didn't take care of my sister and I too well. When we were kids and my dad wanted to go to a nudist camp. So that time I was 9 and my sister was 13 and we were told we have to keep this secret. We're not allowed to tell anybody where we go. I would watch my dad don one of my mom's wigs driving down the road to get there because he didn't want anyone to see us driving in there or assume it was them. And it wasn't until actually I had granddaughters that I thought, hang on, I would never do that to them. And that was a pretty vulnerable thing or place to put kids in. And I felt.

[John DeLoney]

It's abuse, hun.

[Jackie]

Yeah,

[John DeLoney]

yeah, that, that's, I mean that is horrific abuse. That goes well, well beyond vulnerable. Forcing a 9 year old and a 13 year old to go spend time at a nudist camp. Yeah, yeah, it's a grotesque abuse and I'm heartbroken and sorry.

[Jackie]

Yeah, it makes sense why I do the things I do or I am the way I am now.

[John DeLoney]

Tell me about those things.

[Jackie]

Well, they used to. I questioned them once and said, why did you take us there like that? It was a pretty hedonistic kind of place. And she said, you had fun. You guys laughed, you played with the other kids, you always had fun. And then I thought afterwards, well, you were gaslighting me my whole life already. And it makes me feel incredible body shame to the point where I'm uncomfortable. When I get out of the shower and I'm naked, I cover myself up right away with intimacy. I've always got to have some clothing on me and I'd like to not feel that way and. But I'm now I think, well, I'm already 63 years old and. But I still want to, I don't want to feel that way anymore. And I'm doing so much to. And I shouldn't because it's not the Christian thing to do, to think, why am I killing myself every day running and helping you to the point of exhaustion because my sister moved far away. She can't be here to help when you didn't have the simple courtesy to keep us safe.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, let me Challenge you on a few things. Okay. Thing number one, I don't care how old you are, you're worth being unshackled from the abuse and the madness you experienced as a little girl. Okay. You're worth that. Are you married now?

[Jackie]

I am, actually, with a man, and we are planning to get married.

[John DeLoney]

Gross. Is he awesome?

[Jackie]

Oh, God, he's amazing. He tells me how beautiful I am all the time and never pushes me.

[John DeLoney]

It's awesome. Not for him. He'll benefit, but not for him. For you. I want you to make an appointment with a trauma therapist tomorrow. Okay?

[Jackie]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And I want you to call that trauma therapist and say you've grew up in an abusive, sexually abusive household, and you're ready, once and for all, to be free. Okay?

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Be free, because you're not.

[Jackie]

Shackles is a great word to use. That's exactly how I feel.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And here's the thing. You can't think your way to this kind of freedom. It has to be experienced through your body with the help of somebody who knows what they're doing, who's trained and licensed, and will walk with you. Okay. But I will tell you there's profound freedom that you don't know exists on the other side. Okay.

[Jackie]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

That's. That's challenge number one. Here's challenge number two. There is nothing unchristian about being frustrated. There's nothing unchristian about thinking, why am I doing this? When not only did you not help us growing up, you put us in incredibly abusive situations, then you blamed us for thinking it was unsafe and weird.

[Jackie]

Thank you for saying that.

[John DeLoney]

There's nothing unchristian about that. You're not a bad person. Okay? You're a human being. You're a human being. The questions that in no way, shape, form, or fashion at all, in any way. Am I trying to make an excuse by what I'm about to say?

[Jackie]

Okay. Okay.

[John DeLoney]

I'm just trying to provide a context. All right?

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Who knows what hell your grandmother. I mean, your mother was living in.

[Jackie]

Oh, I. I know. She was. She was incredibly submissive. And I would watch it, and then I would call my dad out on it, and. And then I would be told to sit and mind my place, and it's between the two of them, but I could see. It's amazing you brought that up, because when she stopped talking after her stroke and people asked her questions, she just shrugged her shoulders, and I thought, wow, that's exactly what you did when dad was alive. You just shrugged your shoulder and nodded. Yes. So I'M sure she went through hell as well.

[John DeLoney]

So maybe you have a great picture of what she grew up. I mean, what she lived in, similar to her as a stroke victim. Right. And here's why I tell you that. Not to excuse the way she's lied to you over the years. Not to excuse the fact that she didn't throw you and your sister in a car and drive as far away from that man as possible. All those things. Right. I'm not trying to excuse that at all.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

She has culpability and responsibility as an adult with children to protect her kids. And it was 50 years ago. Culture was different, times were different, police were like everything was different. Right?

[Jackie]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And so the question is less about tit for tat. Why didn't you do this? So should I do that? I want you to ask yourself this question. At 61 years of age, who do you want to be in the world? Because I think the care of your mother moving forward is going to say a lot more about you than it does about her

[Jackie]

now. I won't leave her.

[John DeLoney]

Okay?

[Dan]

I'll.

[Jackie]

I'll see. I'll see that all through and then I won't regret something else again.

[Dan]

And I'll just.

[John DeLoney]

The way you just said that is really important. Okay? So don't lose this. I'm going to stop letting her drive. I get to choose from today forward who I am going to be in this world, period. I'm a strong, grown ass woman that can do whatever I want to and I'm not going to let her take away my dignity and my honor and my response. Sense of responsibility. As a woman who says, I'm not going to leave my mom by herself, she doesn't get that too.

[Jackie]

Right? Yeah, right. That's right.

[John DeLoney]

If, if. And again, I'm putting words in your mouth. If that's what you think and believe.

[Jackie]

I do believe that. I do. And I can't imagine being locked in her body right now and how frustrating it is. And she works at it and she tries and I mean, after that situation was done, she actually flourished a little bit after my dad died and started talking and telling me stories that I. From her childhood, she actually had a voice and she got to speak. And I'm so sad that her voice got taken away.

[John DeLoney]

Can you all start a journaling thing together? Can she write?

[Jackie]

No, she can't write. Okay. She can't write anymore. I'm so good at 20 questions, though. Like, I'll take anyone on now. Like, I've gotten very good at figuring out what she wants through our conversations. I also have an autistic granddaughter who doesn't speak. So sometimes I talk a lot in a day. But, well, that girl has just shown me how to live my life honestly. She's my hero. And sometimes you don't need words. So I think this shows actions will speak louder.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So I don't want you. You can do what you want. Okay. If I find myself in your situation and then layer on, like, if I find one of my parents, I find myself taking care of them. And I don't, I don't have the abuse layers you've got, but I would want to ask myself while looking in the mirror, who do I want to know myself to be? And I'm going to go do those things.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And it sounds like a really good answer. You're saying I'm a kind of person that's just going to get in there and get it done. Because when my mom passes, I'm going to remember myself as someone who honored a woman who didn't even bother to honor me when I was a little kid. Or you may find some stories or some diary entries somewhere or something. Maybe in her own best way possible, she could do without getting her head knocked off. She protected us. The best she knew how to do in the situation she found herself.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

In a time and a place when the only thing people cared less about kids was women.

[Jackie]

That would be great. I, I, I do see it in her eyes.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And here's the thing. If you're not going to leave her, if you're not going to just stop going. This is going to sound nuts, what I'm about to tell you. Okay.

[Evangeline]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

I would spend no more than 1.2 seconds a day being upset with her because you being upset with her doesn't change what you're about to do during the day. It can erase the past, and it's not going to change her. All choosing anger, running the story back, the frustration that you never. Why didn't you ever. All of that stuff. And it becomes a choice to be miserable doing the things you are already going to do today.

[Jackie]

Yeah, that's.

[John DeLoney]

And so I'm not going to choose. I'm not going to choose misery. I'm gonna choose Joy. So I'm gonna celebrate myself. And nobody's ever celebrated you except for this new knucklehead. And I'm glad he's in your life. But I, I am gonna celebrate. I'm gonna put three or four things I'm grateful for about me and that's not unchristian. That is you honoring this person that you said God loves you. I'm gonna honor that person. God thinks I'm worth being loved than.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Than.

[John DeLoney]

For crying out loud, I can love. Me too.

[Jackie]

Yeah, that's hard. It's real hard, but I can do it.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's real hard.

[Jackie]

I, I, I will, I will work to them to that.

[John DeLoney]

And here's what trauma healing is going to do. It's not going to erase what happened.

[Jackie]

No.

[John DeLoney]

And there's probably things that you will uncover during this process that will be really heavy and overwhelming.

[Jackie]

Fair. Yeah. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

What it will allow you to do is when you step out of the shower, your body won't go into panic mode. It won't go into frantic grasping for the towel to cover up. It will you being able to be reckless and uninhibited with this new husband of yours who loves you like to the moon and back.

[Jackie]

He does. And that would be a gift.

[John DeLoney]

But the gift of freedom will be for you. He'll be a direct beneficiary of that gift. Right. But the gift will be your body doesn't try to go to war and protect you every time it feels like you're exposed like you were when you were nine.

[Jackie]

Yeah, that makes sense. I was trying to always figure out, why do I feel the opposite of the thing that I did.

[John DeLoney]

Because your body put a GPS pin in. People are looking at me. And the adults in the room are supposed to protect you from that moment and they didn't. They exposed you further.

[Jackie]

So the freedom that it was supposed to, supposed to give turned into the shackles later in life.

[John DeLoney]

There is no freedom for a 9 year old at a nudist colony. I mean, that in and of itself, that's just insanity. It's madness. It's terrifying. Yeah. I mean, I don't even have words for that, but yeah. Your body has been trying to protect you for the last 50 years because there were no adults in your life that were going to protect you as they're supposed, as they should. So your body said, all right, I'm the only one. I wish you nothing but healing and freedom and just a reckless fun, fun. You need fun life with this man that's coming to your world. And I just wish you guys the absolute best. Thank you so, so much for the call. All right, when we come back, a man asks how to support his wife through her severe depression and anxiety. We'll be right back.

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[John DeLoney]

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[John DeLoney]

and likes and all the stuff. I'm really grateful for those who just take a second and support us in that way. Let's go out to Rochester, New Hampshire and talk to Dan the man. What's up, Dan?

[Dan]

Hey. Hey. Yeah, thank you so much for, for, for taking my call.

[John DeLoney]

You got it, my brother. What's up?

[Evangeline]

So,

[Dan]

yeah, honestly, I feel honestly kind of like a little bit like lost in the woods just with everything. So I've been married about eight and a half years to my wonderful wife. We have two kids, you know, a little, both toddlers and say kind of like on the overall, on the outside, like things are, things are good. But it's, it started off really small, you know, kind of early on in our marriage that my wife's anxiety especially kind of started like ticking up. Like her depression started ticking up and we would, you know, like she would do like therapy should, you know, later started with a psychiatrist and going through those. But just over the years it just has, has ramped up, has ramped up, has ramped up. We'd have, you know, high risk pregnancies and postpartum was just a whopper for her and, and then it never went away. It was just that became the new normal as far as the depression and everything that, that, that it brought and. Yeah, it's just, it just, it for me just looking on, I just feel so powerless with so much of it that, you know, like I. There's so few times now, and it's been like almost five years that depression has gotten to the point where it's a, it's. I don't know what I can say, but, you know, self harm and things start to come into play and.

[John DeLoney]

Is she suicidal?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Actively.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dan]

Like a week ago, like I walked in on her with my kid right before we put her to bed. Put him to bed. And it was probably seconds before she was going to try and it just happened that we walked in and we took her to crisis center. Like we did everything. She's getting treatments, we're doing everything. But. Yeah, it just feels like I'm just along for the ride.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And that despite how much I love and encourage, it's nothing I can do.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So

[John DeLoney]

this is not an apples to apples comparison. Okay. But I want you to use this as an analogy, all right? If she had contracted stomach cancer, you would have that same feeling of powerlessness. Like, I can't do anything. I can take you to the doctor. I can't. I can't heal you from this, what you have in your guts. But it would be minus the shame, it would be minus that you look in the mirror and saying, why can't I love you so that you feel less anxious? Anxious. Why can't I love you enough so that you feel less depressed? And that's the part I want you to let go in this season. Okay. Because it's not about you not loving her. Well, it's not about you loving her with all the skills you got, all the tools you got in your toolkit. It's about her being sick. She's not well right now. Okay. And so the powerlessness is real. The sense that this is always going to be this way and is this the marriage I'm going to have for the rest of my life? And then the guilt you feel by even asking that question or thinking that question. I want you to set that kind of stuff down right now. Okay. It's like if, if you were to come see me privately, if you were to, if you were a friend of mine, I would suggest she needs inpatient treatment right away. And I know that that's almost impossible logistically with two young kids. You're probably working a full time job. It's chaos. It's whatever it is a hellish price to pay in the short term for the potential of real long term healing in your home and in her heart and mind spirit. Okay. Yeah, but that's where I think we are. This is beyond pharmacology at this point. This is going to take a. A whole system of support.

[Dan]

Yeah, I think so. And it's because. It's the. Because like your analogy, like if it was, you know, heaven forbid anyone, you know, cancer or car accident, you know, some kind of, you know, other physical injury or things, like there's a. There's a wound, you know, there's a scar. There's literally, you know, there's. There's the cancer in you and they can watch it and they can track it and they can treat it and. But this, it's. With it being mental, it just is so hard because she can have good days, like, and her good days aren't. Aren't great. It's been so many years. I think she's. I honestly believe she's forgotten what it's like to not feel hopeless and depressed.

[John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Dan]

Like to think if I ask her, like, what do you have planned today? She's not able to answer that. Yeah, she just, like, I'm just, I'm just going like, I'm. I'm not planning on anything in the future because she, the depression, like, it, it's causing her not to really see it or see yourself there. And. But with, with the Mentos, she can have like that traumatic, traumatic night we had. I had to take her to crisis center and everything, you know, and they had her overnight. The next day they discharged her and for all intents and purposes, life went back to normal. She was back home. She, like. We went back to her normal habits, you know, obviously added, you know, precautions and, you know, medications and things, but for me it's. It felt like, like waking up from a bad dream.

[John DeLoney]

Right?

[Dan]

But instead of saying like, oh, wow, that was a bad dream, I'm glad it's over. It's like, know the entire world, like everything's gone back to normal. But I experienced this thing she did, and it's nothing. But it's like also never happened. And it's.

[John DeLoney]

Nothing is normal. Okay. You're not crazy.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You're not crazy. Nothing is normal. Everything's different now. Okay?

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Can I be real blunt with you?

[Dan]

Yeah, please.

[John DeLoney]

You walked in on your wife about to take her life, or attempt to take her life, to die by suicide in front of your young child. There's zero Normal about that.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

She's very, very sick. Okay. And you're not crazy for being frustrated with the mental health support systems we have in this country. You're not crazy for being super. You're just sending her back home. Yep.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You're not crazy that she is trying to play. Perform the role of normal mom and wife to the best of her abilities. And you kind of thinking, what are we doing? We're just going right back to. We're just going to pretend like that didn't happen?

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You're not crazy. Okay.

[Dan]

Thank you.

[John DeLoney]

The boldness you need here is. To remind her to tell her to say I love you enough. I love our kids enough that I want us to hit pause on this charade we're all playing. And the best way I can love you right now is to support you getting well. And you're. The needs you have to get well exceed what anyone in this home can do. And so I've made arrangements for you to go visit somebody or to go do inpatient for 30 or 60 days where you can rest, you can sleep, and you can get a glimpse of what it looks like to hope again, what it looks like to feel good again. Right?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And your understanding of major depression is. Is more accurate than most.

[Dan]

It.

[Jackie]

It.

[John DeLoney]

She doesn't have a picture of her of the future with her in it. She doesn't have a lived feeling or lived experience of what it feels like to feel good. And so there's nothing to aim for. Right. Like if. If I blew my knee out tomorrow, I would have a memory of what it felt like to walk and go jogging with no pain. I would be looking forward to getting to that back. She. That. That doesn't exist for her.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And now we have somebody who's actively trying to hurt herself or really what she's trying to do is to stop all this hu. An inpatient is insanely expensive.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I don't know how you'll navigate child care. I don't know how you'll navigate. I don't know how you'll do any of that stuff. You have to call in every friend in favor and community member and family member you got. But this is where we're at in your home. And this is what I would tell my wife. I would tell my sister, I would tell my daughter, I would tell my son. I would tell my friends the exact same thing. This one's too big. Okay.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And I think what I don't. What I don't want you to do is to fall Prey to this black cloud and you lose hope, too.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And can I tell you something crazy?

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I've come to believe hope is an action. It's not a feeling.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

It's an orientation. I'm going to keep doing the next right thing because I believe in my guts it gets better, especially when I don't feel like it. So I'm going to make sure I exercise. I'm going to make sure that I call in every helping professional I can to support and love my wife. I'm going to call my neighbors and ask for help getting kids to school and back and stuff like that. I'm going to ask my local church for help with free child care because I don't have any more money. We're going to ask everybody for everything. I'm going to reach out. By the way, you'll be honoring other people, too, by asking them. You'll be giving them purpose and meaning, which is in short supply these days. Okay.

[Dan]

Yeah. No, thank you.

[John DeLoney]

I'm sorry this has happened to me and to her, to you, to your kids, to everybody.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[Dan]

I just. It's one of those. It's funny, like, hindsight is 2020 that, like, looking back, it's. It's like, oh, if we would have done this different, like, maybe, you know, if I pushed a little more to, like, have her see medical professionals earlier on, you know, years ago, but, you know, leaving it up to her be like, hey, you know, like, you know, make an appointment. She said she would, and. But if I had only, like, pushed more this or that, and I don't know if it would have moved the needle at all, but it's just such a.

[John DeLoney]

Here's. Here's the thing. I hate to say it like this. This is pretty. Pretty abrupt. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

[Jackie]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

This is you cruising down the highway at 75 miles an hour, trying to drive by, looking at your rearview mirror. It's unhelpful. The only thing that. That story's been written. There's a period at the end of that story. The only story you can impact is the one you write next. So if you imagine yourself holding a pen, what is that story going to be? I loved my wife enough to wade in through her pain and her hurt and say, we're going to. Impatient. I got over my concerns with asking people for help and frustration, and I started asking everybody. Right. I had to go sit down with my boss and say, I need to alter my schedule. I need, like, I don't know what you do for a living. But I, I, what I'm saying is I started taking every route possible. That's what the next right thing looks like for you. But it starts with her going to get inpatient treatment for major depression and for, for a whole host of things. And there hopefully they will give her medical diagnostics, physiological diagnostics, hormone testing as well as psychiatric pharmacology. They should take care of her and then begin working on life overwhelm skills. And then y' all will begin to reunite and say, okay, how do we build a brand new marriage together where I'm a part of loving you and honoring you well, and you for me? Because she needs a role too. I've seen these situations that go really well. Someone goes and gets the help they need, they come out with a whole new perspective on life and then they rebuild something amazing and cool. And this becomes an extraordinary story to tell your great grandkids one day. I also can tell you if you want to talk about living in the rearview mirror, if something does happen in the interim, it's going to be a weight that you carry that's I wouldn't wish on anybody. So make the calls that you need to make and let's get her in somewhere asap. Thank you for being a husband who loves his wife well, especially when she's hurting, especially when it's hard. You're a good man, my brother. We'll be right back.

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[John DeLoney]

What up, Kelly?

[Kelly]

All right, so this is a question that comes from our Together app. So these are questions that we have gotten from people that are using the app. But I think this one also is kind of bigger than just the app as well. Explain mental load and what that is. What's its impact as a guy in the United States.

[John DeLoney]

Mental load is a bunch of bull crap.

[Kelly]

Is this kind of like saying gaslighting doesn't exist?

[John DeLoney]

Ye, yeah, there's gaslighting Mental loads a bunch of bull crap. No, I'm just kidding. Mental load is a, it's a phenomenon that. It's not a phenomenon that was such a stupid way to say that it is. Everything that is a spouse is carrying. A person is carrying in the background of the day to day responsibilities of their life. Here's what I mean. My wife wakes up, the kids have to eat, they have to get to school on time. They go to two different schools, they have two different start times. But this day, one kid has off, but this kid has a late start. And so that means we have to drop them off one off here and then I got to make arrangements to pick this other kid up because one's got a soccer game, one's got a track meet and in the background there's also mother in law's coming next weekend. John's mom's birthday is coming up. Got to make sure the cards get sent out. And also I think his sister texted and said this. And also there's doctor's appointments and but. And there's the orthodontist appointment. But I think one kid has getting the braces off and the next one, that, that's mental load. It's all the stuff that one person is carrying all the time. In addition to I gotta get to work, I gotta get home, dinner's gotta get made, the yard's gotta get mowed. It's all the stuff that has to happen in the light in life. Where I've seen mental load a lot over the last several years especially is it's been couched as a totally gendered thing. Women have this crazy mental load that men don't have. And I posit that it's men do have a significant mental load. It's just different. And so when my wife, I remember her us sitting down and talking about all this stuff and there was two big components to mental load. Mental number one is it never occurred to her that I'm walking around all the time closely watching Retirement accounts, watching the state of how our city is doing. What is. What's going to happen if this happens? Where is this going to be? Are we going to be okay here? Hey, there's a guy following us too close over here in this restaurant. Like. Like, when I explained to her me walking into a restaurant with the family, she was stunned. She's like, literally, you have two exits for every time we walk into a restaurant and you scan the room for any. And I said, yeah, every single time. Like, she didn't know I did that. She thought it was kind of ridiculous. And I laughed and said, well, I think it's kind of ridiculous that you're in your head, you're carrying your own six months from orthodontist appointments. And so I said, both of us are carrying stuff that the other person doesn't understand that has varying levels of importance now and in some imaginary future. And so the second part of this that was hard is I said, why don't you just write down all the school start times, all the doctors, all their phone numbers and stuff like that that you're carrying, and we'll tape it somewhere in multiple places in the house and I'll take a picture of it and I'll always have it on my phone. And there was a strange sense. She smiled and she's like, but then

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[John DeLoney]

And so it was this also, this sense of identity, like, I'm the one

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that keeps all this together.

[John DeLoney]

And if I was to say, hey, will you look at these retirement accounts with me once a month? I would feel like, well, I mean, that's kind of. That's kind of my job. My job is the one to get dramatic and come up with future scenarios that are never going to happen and try to solve them in the present. That's what I do. And so mental load is for couples. I think it's important that everybody take regular times and the Together app is wired into this. If there's one thing that's the most important part of Together app is the weekly rundown. What does this week look like coming up financially, calendar wise? We're going to put sex on the calendar. Like, what is happening this week and where do we put what we're carrying? What's the mental load? Can I help with cards for birthdays? Can we text this year instead of writing handmade cards? Are there flights that we need to buy? Are there doctor appointments I need to draw? Like, let's put all that stuff out of our heads in on paper and we'll Share it together, and then we'll divide and conquer. And it's not getting any identity about, look what I'm carrying versus what you're carrying. And also, it's being honest about, hey, these things got to get done, and both people need to hop in there and get it done, man. You're talking about freeing your whole life. It's amazing. Once my wife and I started sharing mental load stuff, it's been transformative. We both walk lighter. We. We don't.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We don't have less crap to do,

[John DeLoney]

but I can pick up the. The slack more. She doesn't feel obligated to carry all the stuff, and I'm sure not carrying as much of this existential garbage I always carry around.

[Kelly]

So. Does the app walk you through that?

[John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dan]

The.

[John DeLoney]

Like, it walks you through the weekly rundown, which is a weekly thing that everybody should do in your marriage, and it gives you prompts at different. Different stages, different activities to talk about mental load. Today, let's discuss this thing. Let's have this conversation about this piece of things. So, yeah, it's perfect for that. Awesome. You don't have any mental load, do you?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

No.

[Kelly]

No. None whatsoever.

[John DeLoney]

No. Here we go.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Dialing up the drama.

[John DeLoney]

It's Kelly.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Oh, yeah, a little bit.

[Kelly]

Just, you know, see, don't go there.

[John DeLoney]

I can't get there. It's 400 years ago. Love you. Bye.