I Love My Husband, but I Keep Cheating on Him

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show – "I Love My Husband, but I Keep Cheating on Him"

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode of "The Dr. John DeLoney Show," hosted by the Ramsey Network, Dr. John DeLoney delves deep into the intricate dynamics of infidelity within a marriage. The episode centers around a heartfelt call from Sarah, a 14-year Army Reserves member, who grapples with recurrent cheating behaviors despite her love for her husband. Through empathetic dialogue and expert advice, Dr. DeLoney explores the root causes of Sarah's actions and offers guidance on navigating the tumultuous waters of marriage strained by infidelity.

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Sarah’s Story: A Journey of Confession and Struggle

Background and The Affair
At [00:21], Sarah initiates her call by confessing her affair, which began in the spring of 2023 during a Temporary Duty (TDY) assignment. Meeting someone during training, she engaged in a long-distance affair that extended emotionally even after the physical aspect concluded. Despite ending the affair, Sarah has struggled with guilt and the repercussions it has had on her marriage.

Relationship History and Patterns
Sarah reveals a troubling pattern of infidelity throughout her relationships:

• Affair Frequency:
  • [05:35] "A total of three times. The two other times were before we got married."
• Marital Duration:
  • [04:45] "Seven years. It'll be seven years this year."

She admits, [01:25], "I've never been faithful in a single relationship I've ever been in." This admission highlights a longstanding struggle with commitment and fidelity.

Impact on Marriage and Family
Following her confession to her husband, their relationship has been tumultuous:

• Divorce Consideration:
  • [05:31] Her husband recently expressed a desire for divorce, contradicting previous signs of reconciliation.
• Family Dynamics:
  • They share a soon-to-be three-year-old daughter, adding complexity to the situation.

Therapeutic Interventions
Sarah has taken proactive steps to address her behavior:

• Therapy:
  • [01:54] "I immediately started therapy. I'm still in therapy."
• Support Groups:
  • [03:00] Attends Sex Addiction Anonymous (SAA) meetings on Saturday mornings.

Family Influence and Personal Realization
Raised in a family where multiple affairs were common, Sarah recognizes the hereditary patterns influencing her behavior:

• Family Background:
  • [03:56] "I grew up closer to my mom's side of the family… all of my aunts and uncles, and even my own mother have had multiple children by multiple partners, multiple affairs."
• Self-Reflection:
  • [04:23] "I just don't is my marriage. Can I save this? Can I fix this? I don't know what to do."

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Dr. DeLoney’s Analysis and Guidance

Understanding the Root Causes
Dr. DeLoney identifies a lack of internal anchoring as a fundamental issue:

• Emotional Disconnect:
  • [08:17] "You haven't liked you for a long, long time."
• Seeking Thrills:
  • [07:00] "When you have that gap, you seek thrills. You seek out of body experiences. You seek... a sense of feeling alive."

Evaluating Love vs. Dependency
Dr. DeLoney challenges Sarah to differentiate between love and the benefits her husband provides:

• Love vs. Benefits:
  • [09:13] "Do you love the benefits he gives you, or are you all in?"

He emphasizes the importance of genuine love over dependency on the positive aspects of the relationship.

Addressing Repeated Behavior
Acknowledging Sarah's repeated infidelity, Dr. DeLoney underscores the improbability of changing behavior without substantial commitment:

• Behavior as a Language:
  • [11:11] "Behavior is a language."
• Commitment to Change:
  • [10:40] "You can't cheat."

Navigating Marital Ambiguity
Dr. DeLoney advises Sarah to seek clarity in her marriage to prevent ongoing emotional turmoil:

• Ambiguity's Impact:
  • [12:33] "Living in this ambiguity is going to electrify our daughter. It's going to electrify both of us. Nobody wins here."

He suggests presenting her husband with concrete steps to rebuild trust or accept the dissolution of the marriage if trust cannot be restored.

Implementing Tangible Changes
Dr. DeLoney recommends actionable steps for Sarah to demonstrate her commitment:

• Practical Steps:
  • [14:14] "Here's my homework assignment... delete whatever you want me to delete. I'm getting out of the army."

Encouraging Personal Responsibility
He underscores the necessity for Sarah to take ownership of her actions and the future of her marriage:

• Taking Responsibility:
  • [15:34] "You not bringing this up only confirms it. It doesn't protect you from anything."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamp

1. Admission of Infidelity:

   • Sarah at [01:25]: "I've never been faithful in a single relationship I've ever been in."

2. On Love and Commitment:

   • Dr. DeLoney at [09:13]: "Do you love the benefits he gives you, or are you all in?"

3. Behavior as a Communication Tool:

   • Dr. DeLoney at [11:11]: "Behavior is a language."

4. On Ambiguity's Impact on Family:

   • Dr. DeLoney at [12:33]: "Living in this ambiguity is going to electrify our daughter. It's going to electrify both of us. Nobody wins here."

5. Encouraging Concrete Action:

   • Dr. DeLoney at [14:14]: "Here's my homework assignment... delete whatever you want me to delete. I'm getting out of the army."

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Conclusion and Takeaways

The episode offers a profound exploration of the complexities surrounding infidelity in marriage. Sarah's candid confession serves as a catalyst for Dr. DeLoney to dissect the underlying emotional and psychological factors contributing to her recurring cheating behaviors. Key takeaways include:

• Self-Awareness: Recognizing personal patterns and their origins is crucial for genuine change.

• Commitment Beyond Benefits: True love requires full emotional investment, not just reliance on a partner's positive traits.

• Clear Communication: Addressing issues openly and seeking clarity can prevent prolonged uncertainty and emotional distress.

• Accountability and Action: Demonstrating a commitment to change through concrete actions is imperative for rebuilding trust.

Through empathetic dialogue and expert advice, the episode underscores the importance of introspection, accountability, and unwavering commitment in healing and strengthening marital bonds strained by infidelity.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Big news. New dates for money and marriage Getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get [e-mail] events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Sarah]

I'm in the Army Reserves and I've been in for almost 14 years. In the spring of 2023, I started having an affair with somebody that I felt terrible with what I was doing. So I set my husband down and I told him everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why do you want to stay married to him? What's up? What's going on, everybody? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show taking your calls from all over planet earth about your mental and emotional health, your marriages, your kids, whatever you got going on in your life. Is your marriage on the brink? Are you thinking about asking that person to spend the rest of your life with you? Are your kids struggling? Are you struggling? Whatever you got going on, my promise is I'll sit with you and we'll figure out what's the next right move. Let's roll out to Dayton, Ohio and talk to Sarah. What's up, Sarah?

[Sarah]

Hi, Dr. DeLoney. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good. What's up in your world?

[Sarah]

Oh, I'm pretty nervous right now. It's crazy that I'm talking to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, don't be nervous. You're good. I'm glad that you called. What's up?

[Sarah]

I'll try to be quick to the point. I'm in the Army Reserves and I've been in for almost 14 years. In the spring of 2023, I left for TDY and I started having an affair with somebody that I met during training. The affair went past training. It was a long distance affair. Like, the physical part was pretty much over, but the emotional part stayed. And about six months, five to six months into it, I felt terrible for what I was doing. So I, you know, I sat my husband down and I told him everything. And things have just kind of been on the rocks ever since, as you can imagine. I immediately started therapy. I'm still in therapy. And through therapy I realized that, you know, I haven't. I've never been faithful in a single relationship I've ever been in. Most of my relationships I've ever been in never been faithful to me either. And I now attend Sex Addiction Anonymous meetings on Saturday mornings. And I just need to know if, like, you know, after a year and a half of being on a rocks with my husband, and my husband's like, back and forth on, like, if he wants to stay, if he wants to Try to work it out. He's back and forth on it and about two, three weeks ago he finally came out and said that he wanted a divorce, which was the opposite. In which I thought things were going. I thought things were getting better. And since then, things seem to be calm between us. He's still in the house. He says he's not actively. He's not actively looking for a place to go. He hasn't talked to a lawyer. I just have. I messed up too much. Like I don't is my marriage. Can I save this? Can I fix this? I realized too that going through therapy that I grew up closer to my mom's side of the family and everybody on that side of the family, including my grandparents, all of my aunts and uncles, and even my own mother have had multiple children by multiple partners, multiple affairs. And I just, I don't want to be this way anymore. We have a soon to be three year old. I just. I don't know what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like you were telling me that. How often have you said all of that out in a row in a line like that.

[Sarah]

To your producer?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not very often. Yeah. How long have you been married?

[Sarah]

Seven years. It'll be seven years this year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And tell me about who you married.

[Sarah]

Excuse me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about who you married.

[Sarah]

He's. He's wonderful. In fact, right now I'm really struggling with figuring out like why I did what I did. And honestly, it's not the first time. And he knows about the other times as well. It seems like every time I've acted out, every time I've done this, like I've been perfectly happy. He's great. He's a very kind hearted man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How many times have you cheated on him?

[Sarah]

A total of three times. He, I. The two other times was before we got married. Yeah. I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So why do you want to. Why do you want to. Why do you want to stay married to him?

[Sarah]

Because I am inspired by him. I want to be like him. He's such a good person.

[Grace]

And.

[Sarah]

He comes from such a good family. And you know, I've told him this before. Like my happiest memories that I have have been with him and. Yeah, I don't want to leave that. I truly feel like he is good for me, you know, I just so know that I haven't been very good to him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, That's a hard pill to swallow, right?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Cash]

Yeah.

[Grace]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I could feel your. I can feel your shoulders up around your ears. Drop them for me.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it usually catches people off guard. When they find out that many, many, many affairs happen inside of what would be classified as good or fine marriages. And the way you talked about him was really instructive. It's kind of where my head was going. And I feel like you confirmed it, but I don't want to say confirmed, because that sounds like it's in concrete. And I always want to leave some space to be wrong. But you haven't liked you for a long, long time. And what I mean by that is there's that sense of I want to feel in my body and my chest what my head knows to be true. And when you have that gap, you seek thrills. You seek out of body experiences. You seek the words I use on the show all the time are you seek some sense of feeling alive. Training weekends with the reserves will do that for you. Um, a year deployment will do that, with you laughing and flirting and being one of, like, the cool girls with the foul mouth who can, like, hang with the guys when you're out.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like in the woods for six, six weeks, you know, and nobody's showering. And you're kind of the cool girl. Like, all that happens. Right. And. But it's a sense of, I want to belong here. And then you get back home. I want to belong here. And you get on your family. I want to belong here. And that lack of rootedness is you trying to find a place where somebody will look at you and say, I'm glad you're here. I love you. You're worth being here. But that you're trying to get it out externally and not internally. Here's the challenge. When I asked you why you want to stay married to him, you talked about him as though he is a really important medication for you. I like being with him. He makes me better. He has a good family. Nowhere did I hear you say, I love him.

[Sarah]

I mean, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. I know, I know. But the question I want you to ask yourself is, do you love the benefits he gives you, or are you all in? Because when he's not with you and he can't give you those benefits, you don't have that feeling of security. You go searching for it somewhere else because you're unanchored.

[Sarah]

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You probably get that at home. You've probably been unanchored for a while, because it sounds like you were raised by unanchored people. Ending chaos. Fair.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Yeah. Off and on.

[Grace]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the sucky thing about therapy and all that going and figuring it out, like, why it all happened. Awesome. The fact that you're going to essay meetings. Awesome. I'm proud of you for doing that work. Here's the thing, though. You can't cheat. And there doesn't always have to be a why. There doesn't have to be a reason. There has to be, like, the idea that you're going to be with somebody and never attracted somebody, never wondering what it would be like to be with somebody else. That's nuts. That's everybody. And regardless of how you were raised, what happened when you're a kid, regardless of, like, you can make a choice. I'm not going to do that.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I. I mean, it's. It's good to go to therapy. It's good to figure out what's going on. It's like, how do I. How do I connect my heart and my head? All that stuff is awesome and good. I'm so glad you're doing that work. But somewhere in the last year and a half, it sounds like this guy is wild, crazy about you. But I'm wondering if he just exhaled and said, but I can't anchor in three times in. In seven years. Three times in eight years is too much.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you asked me, can you save your marriage 100%. Y' all can. You can't. And I'm. I. I have. You sat down and said, hey, you said this really heavy thing a few weeks ago. I need to know where you are.

[Sarah]

Not yet. I'd like to. I'm just. I'm really scared to right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. And you're making yourself crazy. Yeah, I would want to know. Was he testing that out to see what that felt like to say out loud?

[Sarah]

I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or is he assuming you're going to, quote, unquote, do the right thing and you're going to go move out because you're the one that blew everything up. Like, I. I would want to know, wake, where are you at this? Or he said it and he realized, no, I don't want that. But I don't know what to do next, and I don't want to be a cuckold on my own house. But also, I love her, but also, she's the mother of my child. And also, she's done this three times, so of course she's going to do it again. Like, all those things. You see, I'm saying, like, it's just a loop, and the only way that loop stops is if somebody stops it. Or. Let me say this. Let me say it more directly. You not bringing this up only confirms it. It doesn't protect you from anything. It just prohibits you from the possibility of the good stuff.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been waiting on eggshells for the last two or three weeks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you looked at him in the eye and said, I will never cheat on you again?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And have you said, nothing in my past would suggest you should trust me on that?

[Sarah]

No, I haven't said that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because you've probably said, I won't cheat on you ever again. The first time you did, and then the second time you did, and then he married you, and it happened again, and it was half a year. It was a long.

[Sarah]

I. I said before. Like, before when I said this, I had this feeling of, like, you know, I hope I don't cheat on you again. I hope this doesn't happen again. But now, having gone through a year and a half of therapy and a year and a half of saa I actually feel confident I'm. I'm actually leaving the Army. I don't think the army is a healthy place for me to be in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. Okay. So that was gonna be one of my next steps. What have you put on the table that says, I'm willing to go to the ends of the earth to reestablish trust here and look at him and say, what do you need? Let me get out of the Army? Done. You. Here's my. We share bank accounts. Done. You want my phone passwords and all my email passwords? I'm canceling social media. Done. Like, yeah. And it has to be. He's got. He gets to detail the map. What would it take?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but there's something about you looking at him and saying, you're my guy, and, yes, you make me a better person, but forget all that crap. I want you, and I've blown everything up. And so you taking another risk on me is. Is literally insane because it's you doing the same thing over and over again, hoping for a different outcome, and I'm asking you to be insane one more time. Yeah, I mean, that's really. Because anything he. If he chooses to stay with you. That doesn't make any sense, because if he called. If he were to call me, I would say, hey, bro, listen, forget about what she says. Behavior is a language. What's different? How is she acting? And maybe he'd be able to say, for the first time in her life, she's in therapy, she's actually dealing with this. This maniacal past she grew up in, she's Getting out of these environments. She is committed here at the house. She is asking me on a day to day basis, how can I love you? We do a budget meeting together. Just so we align where we want to go together.

[Sarah]

The past year and a half, I've wanted. There's lots of things I've wanted to do like that. But because he's been one foot in and one foot out, I feel like he's not committed. And therefore I feel like I can't ask him those questions.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Flip it around, dude. He's hanging on for dear life. Of course he's not committed. You. You shot a hole in the boat. You get what I'm like, Just think of it. Y' all are flying. Y' all are. Y' all on a raft going down whitewater rapids of life. And you shot a few. You shot three holes in the boat. Of course, he has to have a foot out making and a foot in another boat making sure he doesn't drown. And so what you have to do is present him with a new boat and say, I'm. Both of my feet are in and I don't have a gun anymore. And I. This sounds elementary or prohibitive, if you will, because the world tells you and the world tells me right now, our entire culture is you do what you feel like. And if you feel like sleeping with somebody else, then your marriage is broken. That's nonsense.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The world says it's not true. If you feel dead inside or you're having a season, you're in a low season when it's cold outside, you don't want to do anything. You're away from home for six months. Just have your fun because life's short. That's nonsense. It's insanity. And so you have to be able to demonstrate to him. When I'm starting to feel that feeling inside, like I need a spark, I need some. Something to get lit up, that you and I have a path, that we do this together. And you just have to hold space. He might look at you and say, I told you, I'm out. And if that's the case, then y' all need to quickly move towards, as adults, a resolution here. Him dropping that grenade in the house and then just moving like the pin's not pulled. Isn't. That's not noble either, Right? Or. Let me. Let me phrase it this way. He doesn't get to do that. He doesn't get to respond to a. A somebody blowing up his life immaturely. He's going to get divorced. Cool. Let's Deal papers, let's figure out housing arrangements, let's figure out co parenting stuff and let's move on with our lives. But dangling that over the house is not, is not good. But yes, he has had one foot out of the boat and I, I would be with him on that one. That's been a tough go. And maybe even just using the analogy I just gave you, hey, I shot a hole in our boat. That was our life. So tonight, sit down and walk back, tell them I blew the boat up. And I've got a brand new boat here. I've done a year and a half worth of work. I've got a pen and a blank yellow pad. Got my codes here. Delete whatever you want me to delete. I'm getting out of the army. I'm getting out of these spaces. What must be true. Will you give me a path back to earning your trust back? And I'll make that commitment minute by minute, hour by hour, week by week. Or you said you want a divorce. If you want a divorce, then I want us to go down that path then. Because living in this ambiguity is going to electrify our daughter. It's going to electrify both of us. And nobody wins here. So I say this. I honor you for calling and just putting it all out there and for being self reflective and owning where you've blown things up and being able to look back in your rearview mirror and see how you come from a long line of people who have done this. And it may be that your redemption story is not inside this relationship. And if this relationship ends, that doesn't mean that the next person you marry, the next person you're with, that you are still a person who never cheats. Period. And for you, that means I'm never going to put myself even in a situation, which means I don't have any way for people to get in touch with me where I might. I don't have overnight six month camping trips even when it's on deployment, because I have proven to myself that I get low and I do things that I regret. It's a matter of putting yourself environments where you can be successful. Thanks for the call, my friend. Call me any, anytime. Next, we talk to a woman who wonders if she should give her boyfriend an ultimatum. It's Deloney for Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. As the great philosopher Ferris Bueller once said, life moves pretty fast. And it's true. We're all juggling work, family and a hundred million billion other things. And in all of this chaos, we forget to pause and reflect. Creating peace in life doesn't just happen. We can't just wait for it to come to us. We have to choose it. Even if it's just a tiny sliver. We have to make space for peace. And that's where Hallow comes in. Hallow provides you amazing opportunities to slow down and reconnect with your spiritual life and the things that matter most. One of the best features on Hallow is the daily reflections with Jeff Cavins. 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[Grace]

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you say, lady?

[Grace]

Hi. So I am wondering if I should end my relationship or give my boyfriend an ultimatum over his deep involvement in a multilevel marketing business.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, is he selling essential oils?

[Grace]

I wish it was that, honestly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Candles even.

[Grace]

It would be even better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But does he hand make earrings?

[Grace]

No, nothing like that. It is, I would say, at least it's more about business coaching. But then there's products involved in that as well. So it's business coaching is a part of it. But then they're obligated to buy a substantial amount of products. And I'm not sure if you've ever heard of Amway.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But she's. Yes, I've heard of Amway. I didn't even know Amway was still a thing.

[Grace]

Right. I know because my uncle, my mom had told me my uncle actually was involved in that years ago, maybe for a few months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on, Grace, haven't you seen the charts? Y' all can make $7 million a year if you just get exactly another 1100 people to commit to $1500 a month. And geez Louise. All right, so how bad is it?

[Grace]

Well, he's known these people for like seven years, so they're his friends. He considers them his mentors. And we met three years ago, but we officially started dating at the beginning of this year, so I get that. I've only been in his life for three, four months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's. Here's all that matters. Here's all that matters after seven years. I have a business coach, by the way. I also have a therapist. I believe in both of those things. After seven years, does he make any money?

[Grace]

He does not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then. Then his business coaching that he has received has been an abject, complete and total failure. What's his monthly buy in? Does he have to keep paying them?

[Grace]

He's supposed to pay $200. He has to pay $200 for the coaching aspect of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Grace]

And then he's also supposed to be paying 500 a. And he says they're products he would buy anyways. I think what really bothers me is the fact that he has some debt. He's paid down a substantial amount of debt. He's actually in, you know, Ramsey's program. He's gone through financial peace and he's paying down that debt, but he considers this as an investment. And the products he would buy anyways. And I know he's not. He's told me he's paying cash for the product. So not on credit right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does he do for a job, though?

[Grace]

Right now he works. He's in the auto industry. A manager. His job, I guess I would say that was another thing at first, is like some volatility. He went from sales to now more of a stable position. But I obviously haven't known him, you know, to see over time, like, his work. I'm just saying work ethic. And I'm not trying to be critical.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And listen, Grace, you're dating him. Be critical. It's fine. Okay. You love him. My wife is critical of things that she needs to be critical about. I'm critical of things I need to be critical about. That criticism isn't bad if it's couched in. In level of. We're on the same team and we're both working towards something. That's not a bad thing. It's accountability. Criticism, like, is one of the four horse. One of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the relationship apocalypse. If you are criticizing because you think you're better than him, then, yeah, you got a relationship issue. That is not what I sound like. It's not what it sounds like here. It sounds like you love somebody and they're fun and they're cool and they're charming. And you see, if I anchor myself to this person, like, I've got 10 years of evidence of what. What comes next for you.

[Grace]

That's what I'm worried about. Because he did say it's his fault that he hasn't made it, which I think that's pretty common in these kinds of situations. You know, he hasn't gone all in, but now, you know, he's been focused. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing. He's listening to all the hype that they give him. He's attending the conferences.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is making any money?

[Grace]

Not at all. In fact, like, he is spending money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's like, this is like. This is like A realtor who goes to. Okay. One of my good friends, Brian Buffini, the biggest like he has, he coaches real estate agents. Okay. And his, he is so. His, his stuff is so proven. He's amazing at what he does, but this is like somebody paying him. And then as a part of being in his program, they go and buy houses so that they can get sales that's not selling. Like, he's a part of a, of a multi level marketing thing. Your boyfriend is. Where he's supposed to get products at a discount and then resell them because they hype him up and teach him how to sell and crush and kill your goals and get your dreams and get that Ferrari. But he's buying the stuff for himself.

[Grace]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then he's passing it off, saying, no, no, I would buy this anyway.

[Grace]

Yeah. And now he has a couple people signed up beneath him. And my own. My other worry is that even if he did make it, I'm like, when do you start? You go from being preyed upon. Because I feel like he's been through a lot, his past, he's got, you know, a lot of different. He's where he's at today. He's a fighter and he's really worked through a lot of things. But I think he was taken advantage of at a vulnerable spot. And that's how I look at it. He would look at it as, these people are his friends, his mentors. He's way better off since he met them. And we've had multiple conversations where one point he said, if he would do it one more year, just give him one more year, see what he can do. And if he's not making any money off of it, then he'll leave. And then he almost took that back and said, well, actually, I'm still getting so much value. These are my friends and mentors. Even if I don't make money, it's still worth it. And then the next time we talked, he said, well, he'll leave completely because he cares about me, he doesn't want to lose me. And I told him in that conversation, I can't necessarily. I feel if we set a precedent for you give up this and then I go all in with you, I don't think that's healthy precedent because I think that he knows that's what's holding me back from being like, yeah, I could go all in and I could marry you and I could see a future with you. It's kind of holding me back a little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're very wise because, yes, he'll resent you for it, and he'll be back in within six months of you being married. You know that. He knows that. So let's do this. I want to not judge him. He's. He's making his choices. He's spending his money doing his thing as he wants to. I'm not going to judge him. Okay. He's not here to defend himself, and it doesn't do any good. I, like I say, I have a business coach. I'm friends with Brian. Brian's amazing. Dave Ramsey's a friend. He's amazing. Like, the entree leadership program is astounding. It's worth, it's. It's amazing. I sign my friends up. Like, it's amazing stuff. So I'm all for business coaching. I. I guess the question I have for you is you seem to have identified that I'm in love with somebody or I care for somebody. Whatever word you want to use that. I don't think he makes wise choices. I think he is someone who's able to be manipulated. I worry about his work ethic. I worry about how he spends his time and his money. So take away the. This happened 10 years ago and he's being prayed. Take all that away. Ask yourself the hard question. Do I want to anchor myself to this person? To co create a world together moving forward? That's the question. My wife tells people that she bought low. Like, when it came to stocks, I didn't bathe very often. I was a wild dreamer and I was always in grad school. And she said, I knew this, but I always showed up and I worked really hard. And she said, I knew that we were. We were always gonna be moving forward somewhere in our wildest dreams. Not this nonsense. Podcasting didn't even exist when we got right. Not this, but I had a career. I had a great career before this. And so going all in on somebody who hasn't, quote, unquote, media, that's part of life. That's part of it, right? You see potential. I'm going to build a life together. That's the question that you have before you. Is this person someone you that you can trust to lean on and that you will receive the leaning that they're going to do on you as y' all build something together?

[Grace]

That's a tough question, I think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on. It's not, though. It's not. I think you know the answer to that. What's tough is the ramifications of you answering that question honestly.

[Grace]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yay or nay?

[Grace]

Yeah. I guess I think I've spent so much time dating, and I'm in my 30s, and I guess it's the first time I've really, in years cared about somebody deeply and had like the attraction had almost. And where I feel like it is a partner, like, the way he does care and the way he shows up for me and all the other ways are so great. It's kind of hard to think about just letting that go over something like this. But then there's also the piece of. I grew up in poverty. I grew up with some food insecurity. I grew up with my parents fighting about money a lot. And that was a huge issue. So I told myself, like, this will never happen to me. And I put myself through college debt free. I got a job, I saved my money, I bought a house. I've done, I put money. I have a good retirement savings, I have a good savings account, all for the security that it brings me. And I think I'm just terrified to let somebody into that, not knowing that I can trust them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But would you be scared if he was a. An electrician and he worked 10 hour days and he got up and made you coffee in the morning, went to work, worked really hard, came home exhausted, made a six figure paycheck, made it, made a 65. I don't care the money. 65,000. But he was consistent and he made it. And he had dreams of one day having his own shop.

[Grace]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Would you have those same concerns? I don't think so.

[Grace]

Probably not. And that's what's tough, because I have dated guys who made six figures.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, yeah, I shouldn't have said that. Who cares about that? That part of it? Here's what I think. I think that your body knows this story. Both the good of this story and the bad of this. This story is familiar to your nervous system. You hear that? You hear that? Like the old therapist line, you marry your unfinished business somewhere, your body wants to solve this. It feels comfortable, it feels right. It's what you know. And you've worked really hard to have this thing never happen again. So fast forward, just, just. You've been together three years, you know, six months from now, y' all go to the courthouse, y' all come up to Nashville, Tennessee. I marry you in the yard out here, okay? Would you leave that marriage ceremony and go down there and get a joint checking account that y' all both put your money in, you both pull money out.

[Grace]

I would be nervous to do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nervous is fine. Would you do that knowing what you know, about how he spends money and how he values things and how, how he works and how he has set about trying to co create a life with you.

[Grace]

I've actually told him before. Yeah, you want to rush to get married by the end of the year. I would marry you, but I wouldn't combine finances.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then that's silly. That's like saying I'm. I. Yeah, that. That's like saying I'm gonna marry you, but I'm not going all in. Which just guarantees that your marriage isn't gonna work out because he's gonna know he's married to somebody who has one foot out. So to save himself, he's got to keep a foot out. And then y' all just gonna row in circles until the boat sinks. But maybe. And. And I'm not saying give up on him. What I want you to own is what you want. And I think you're apologizing for what you want. And that is somebody who you can depend on, someone who is safe. And you've never experienced that ever?

[Sarah]

No.

[Grace]

I feel like I had to be that for myself.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. That's right. So you're going to have to practice leaning on somebody and you're going to have to find somebody that you can lean on. And so it's not a bad thing for you to say. I love you. Three years. I can see us having a family. I can see us getting old and fat together out in the lawn chairs in the front yard listening to your Nickelback CDs. He sounds like a guy listens to Nickelback still. And sitting on the front porch watching our grandkids run around playing with their AI robots or whatever. Like I could, I could see all that. And I can in good conscience connect myself to somebody who is repeatedly taken advantage of, who repeatedly puts money into a thing while we're losing money, who doesn't have a steady job, who doesn't have any sort of plan for the future other than crush it and kill it. Oh, yeah. Like I need something more secure. And if you want in. Awesome. So I guess your ultimate question is, should I give an ultimatum? It sounds like you have an ultimatum. You're just scared that he's going to look at you and say, no, I choose them. And what I would tell you in a dating relationship, I hope you get that out before you get married.

[Grace]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think my other fear is, even if he were to choose me over that in this present time.

[Sarah]

What.

[Grace]

Next thing will happen?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It could be amazing. It could I chose my wife over a bunch of stuff. And I didn't know until seven or eight years into being married that she felt guilty that I chose her over some of those things. And I thank God every day that I did. It's not a bad thing. And there were seasons when I was upset about it. There really were. And I thank God every day that I made those choices. So choosing you over something isn't a bad thing, it's not a negative thing. You will choose him. You'll choose sharing. You'll choose being vulnerable again over this perceived, like, safety that you've built for yourself. Both of y' all will choose things over each other. I mean, you all, you'll all choose, right? That's part of it. But y' all can choose something amazing. I want you to write down. Here's your homework assignment. Write down if these 5, 10, 15, 2, 3, whatever. If these things were different, I would marry this guy today. I think he has a right to know those things. Here's what I'm scared about. And here's what we've talked about for the last three years. And I've repeatedly heard you make excuses, go around the edges. Here, here, all these things. Fine, you can do whatever you want. You can spend your money however you want. But as for me and my house, the world I want to co create with somebody, it's gonna have to be safe. It's gonna have to be directed. I need to see a work ethic. I want us to build towards something and not 10 years of throwing monthly expenses away for some sort of business coaching that hasn't worked. Hasn't worked. In fact, it just continues to cost more money and more money and more money. Plus the annual conference. Plus the annual conference. Super Atomic Diamond Division, where we could. And can we be honest for a second? Everybody out there who's one year in, two years, in three years into a long term relationship, it feels like a sunk cost. I've already put this much time in it. I'm in my 30s, the clock is ticking. All that stuff. I get that. I get it. But I promise those three years, 15 years from now, after a divorce, after y' all are roommates, I promise those three years will be different. Then you're going to wish you had that time back. So you're worth. You're worth drawing a line. Yes, Grace, you are. And he's worth you drawing a line. So he knows. And only you can draw that line. Thanks for the call, my friend. Hey, next we talk to a man whose girlfriend Expects him to pay for everything. We'll be right back. All right, it's time for a quick word about Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints, the things we're doing online, are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys and scammers right back to us. Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph, where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. You might get an email or a text or a phone call, and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's looking out for you, but they're not. With all of this new technological advancements, no one is really safe anymore. And so what's any of us to do? We start controlling what we can. We learn how to be careful online and offline, and we sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Deleteme because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. That way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data. They've reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me, and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and tons of stress. Stop the phishing attacks and the harassment and the other online threats before they start. And take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com Deloney today for 20% off their annual plan. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joinedelete me.com/deloney. Naples, Florida. Let's talk to Cash. What's up, Cash?

[Cash]

Hey, Cat. Hey, John. How are you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing good, brother. What's up, man?

[Cash]

Hey, so I just want to say, big fan of the show. I probably watch an episode every single day. So happy to be here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Appreciate that, man. Thank you. What's up?

[Cash]

Of course. Yeah, so there's been some updates on this, but I kind of want to get to the, like, the initial question here. How can I go about balancing my finances with my girlfriend's expectation? I. I pay for everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, you're talking to an old Texan man. Define everything.

[Cash]

Yeah, so it's not exactly everything. I think the more specific, you know, the more specific question, like, it's more, you know, dates, activities, kind of like the special occasion occurrences that come up. And I think to some degree, I. I want to pay for those things and have, you know, the authority and, like, there's being able to take care of her and treat Her. Well, what do you mean?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Authority? What do you mean? Not.

[Cash]

Not authority. That was the wrong word. Just like being able to treat her well, I think, you know, I think it's a harder time in my life. I'm getting my finances back on track and working very hard. And I feel like when we do go out or we have these special things planned, I feel like at some point right now in my life, it feels like every time I do that, it puts me a step back a bit, if that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I mean, you're talking really lofty Naples, Florida language. Here's the thing. How long have you all been together?

[Cash]

Just a little over a year now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Sounds like you've been dating somebody for a year and you've had a drop in income or you lost a job or whatever. You're figuring stuff out, you're paying off debt, whatever. The thing is, and she expects you to pay for everything and you don't know how to sit down and say, hey, I don't have the kind of money that. To keep doing this. Is that fair?

[Cash]

I. I will say we have had a conversation. So since I posed the question, we have sat down and had a long conversation. Because I think the biggest thing was her reaction to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me, what do you mean when you said, what?

[Cash]

So like, every time they come up like, baby, like, babe, I'm, you know, this must been harder for me. I'm getting my career started right now and I want to be more mindful where the money's going. I'm happy to go do these things with you and experience this stuff. She. She would just totally shut down from there and not even have the discussion. Really.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then, then she does not. She's not worth you dating if she's that immature, or let me put it this way, she doesn't care about you. She care about. Cares about the appearance of. She cares about somebody taking. You get what I'm saying?

[Cash]

Yeah, I understand. I do want to know. I do want to know. We did. So that's what was going on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Cash]

But we did get to the point where we had a very heart to heart in depth conversation. She was able. We had a blow up that day and she was able to come back and have us talk to her. And I think we got to the bottom line of where we think it's coming from.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is it?

[Cash]

So what I saw or felt coming from it is her dad was never emotionally there for her. And so the way she received love from her dad was by being taken care of financially. With going out to dinners or activities. Okay. And that's kind of what we got to the point. And I think the bigger thing for me is, like, should I. Because every time it come up, I felt like I was doing her in service or, like, just not treating her well. And I, like, I want to know, am I in the right or in the wrong? And, like, I don't know. I, like, I want to know if I'm in the right here with the conversation we had. Like, I want to make sure it's not just me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think. I think you're overthinking this way. Way too much. Way too much. Okay, okay. Over. Sophisticating it. Over. Analyzing it. Over, like, therapeuting it. Like, any word you want to make up just to jump, drop in here. I'm an old Texas soul, okay. My wife says I was born in the wrong century. I always think it's right for the guy to pay for food, to pay for outings, to pay for the movie. I also used to fight because I married a really strong, brilliant, tough woman who had her own career. Like, I can pay for my stuff. And then there'd be nice night, like, I'm taking you on a date. That was usually my signal. I'm paying for all this stuff. Right. And when she did pay, I did. I felt less than I did. Just is what it is. Okay? So all that stuff is true. And the biggest red flag I have in this whole thing, I got two of them. One is that when you said. And it didn't sound like you were very clear. It sounded like it was more ambiguous. But she would plan an event. We're going to the beach. Then we're gonna go to this dinner with our friends. We're gonna do this. And she just expect you to pay for it. And then you would come back and say, hey, I'm trying to get my career off the ground. I'm kind of slope. Instead of being able to say, hey, I can't afford all of this. I would love to do all this stuff. I'm just. Here's the reality of my finances and that she threw a fit and left. I'm glad that she came back. That's awesome. So I retract. Maybe she's completely on board. Maybe she overreacted. I was like, oh, wait a minute. This is how I thought love worked. And it doesn't. Awesome. I think y' all need to. To go brass tax on this deal. Like, I'm getting my. My business off the ground. I'm starting A new career. I'm not borrowing any money here. I would love to hang out with you. And that might mean that for six months, we go to the park, we walk on the beach for free, we go fishing, and we don't catch anything. We go read books, go to the library, we go get a cup of coffee because that's what I can afford right now. And she looks at you and says, I'm all in. Yeah, if, and, and here, that's not you being in the wrong. That's you just doing math. That's reality. The fact that you're even asking is that okay for you to do just shows how distorted culture has made everything. You would not be loving her if you said yes to everything and you put it all on a credit card so that you are married to her in four years and you owe $30,000 for her little adventures that you didn't have the courage to say no to, telling her the truth about your financial situation, saying, I would love to be with you and spend time with you in this present season. It's cold outside, it's winter, so we can't go out. And if she looks at you and says, I don't want anything to do with you, or, I'm going to go somewhere with somebody who can then buy Felicia. I mean, you get what I'm saying? I know it sounds harsh, but, like, it's just you and her trafficking in reality. You don't sound like you're buying it.

[Cash]

No, no, I definitely understand, I definitely understand what you're saying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why is that hard for you to digest?

[Cash]

I don't know. I, I think I feel like I need to have it all, I guess, figured out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you?

[Cash]

25.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, my gosh, dude. Really?

[Cash]

I, I, I don't know. I feel like I need to be farther along than what I am right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where are you right now?

[Cash]

Just financially.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you make a year?

[Cash]

I just got a new job and sales. And if I hit my commissions and whatnot, it'll be 80 grand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bro. Turn off all of the meathead podcasts. Just turn them off. If you don't hit your quotas, what are you going to make this year? What's your floor?

[Cash]

50.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you make $50,000 a year with a potential upside of 80,000, 30,000 more dollars. Are you working hard?

[Cash]

Day in, day out?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And the, the economics, the, the, the world's economic situation is just a blender right now. And so it's a wild time to be a commission salesman. You still have $50,000 floor. Are you driving around a stupid car that you can't afford?

[Cash]

I actually, I actually moved over from Hawaii about six months ago, and so I sold my car over there before I moved and I haven't wanted to get in debt since. So I have not been using a car lately and just wanting to save up and buy something cash.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do you get to work? How do you make sales calls? Do you work from home?

[Cash]

It's 100% remote, so I'm able just to work from home all day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Fantastic. Awesome. Does she know that you're going to buy a $3,000 Camry whenever you get 3,000 bucks?

[Cash]

I've, we've talked about. I, I've, I've kind of held off from getting something that cheap. You think I should get something just cheap? In the meantime, I want to get something a little bit more expensive that I can pay for cash for like a milestone for myself.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think you need milestones right now, man. You need little wins. A whole bunch of little wins. Here's the deal, dude. You are 25 years old. You're out there slogging it. You're just grinding day in and day out. You're going to wake up and be 35. You're going to have a pretty amazing life if you figured this out. How to sell, how to be a person of integrity, how to work really hard, how to love and take care of people, and how to traffic in reality. So take it from a guy that spent my entire career with working with people your age. You're doing great. You're doing fine. Okay? If she spends most of her time on Instagram and wants some kind of flashy something or other and some guy that just is gonna. Then she's a spoiled brat and she needs to move on with her life. But if she sees a 25 year old with the kind of character and gut check and hard work and integrity and sense of humor that she says, you know what? Kind of like I was just telling another caller, my wife bought low. She saw that in me at 25. You know, I made it 25. You want to know? 33 5. $33,500. And I was so excited when I got that raise from $30,500. I got a $3,000 raise. I remember that number because I was ecstatic. My wife was a third grade teacher and she made more money than I did. She was my girlfriend at the time, but she was all in. And she drove a Corolla and I drove a used Some, I don't know, some kind of shenanigan car. So just from one guy to another, we have a crisis of young men in this country. Okay. You know that. I know that. Are you spending your whole day just scrolling porn? No. Okay. Do you make an X number of sales calls a day, even when it's hard?

[Cash]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you work out? You go to the gym?

[Cash]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Are you a person of integrity?

[Cash]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you go to church?

[Cash]

I do not go to church, but I, I have my own spiritual practice that's like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. You are so far ahead. Please don't let somebody you're dating drag you down because you can't fund her lifestyle. It's an honor for me to get to talk to a 25 year old who's actually in the arena with gloves on, taking swings because there's millions and millions of men who've just opted out. And yes, if you can pay for dinner, pay for the movie. And no, you are not somebody's travel funder or somebody's the, the chief funding officer of somebody's party planning committee. That's not how relationships work. Y' all plan things together, y' all do things together. I'm proud of you. You're doing good work.

[Cash]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's where I want you to start with her reality. If you are falling for this girl and you're starting to love her, awesome. Sit down and say, hey, I see a future with you. We've been together a year. I see a future with you and I'm on the front end of something that I'm trying to build that's going to be amazing. That I can support a family someday, that I can build a life and I want to build it with somebody. And that means I'm going to be out of balance at 25, 26, 29, I'm going to be out of balance. But I'm doing that now so that the day I have a kid, I can do whatever I want to so that if the market crashes, I've got cash and I can just go pick up a house for nickels on a dollar. And so let's get down to reality and what you're building and put all that on the table. And bro, hopefully she doesn't walk on you. And if she does, I'm glad it happens. Now then two kids in. When you're 33, I'm proud of the work you're doing, man. And for every 25 year old listening to the show, this is what it looks like. 25 making 50 grand a year, which is a chunk, not feeling like you have enough, really hitting the gas, not even having a car because I'm trying so hard to get ahead, really chasing it and trying to find somebody to walk alongside me. I love it. I love all of it. Thanks for the call, Cash. We come back. What do we got? Kelly?

[E]

We have an Am I the problem?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Am I the problem? We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Listen, therapy is not just for people dealing with major traumas. It can be for that. But therapy is also a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional well being or their relationships. I see a therapist for both the big challenges from my past as well as helping me navigate the day to day challenges of being a husband, a dad and a citizen. Many of you should think about therapy too. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist just for them to get started. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time, easily and for no extra cost. Listen, talk it out with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, Kelly, am I the problem?

[E]

All right, so this is from Tony in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tony with a Y or an I?

[E]

With a Y.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right.

[E]

Yes. And he writes, am I the problem for wanting boundaries with my in laws. My wife is very close to her parents. They video call almost every day. Almost every day, often interrupting our family life. Lately, she's been inviting them to stay for multiple nights without asking me when they visit. Our daughter gives up her room because grandma can't do stairs. She sleeps on an air mattress in her sister's room. Grandpa sleeps alone downstairs in the guest room. Everything shifts to cater to her parents. Meals, tv, bedtime, even where we sit at dinner. My wife reverts to daughter mode and dismisses my concerns, saying they'll be dead someday. Get over it. Meanwhile, we rarely see my mom. And I've established clear boundaries with my dad and his third wife. I feel like a guest in my own home. Am I want. Am I wrong for wanting to protect our family's rhythm with some healthy limits?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Now is the time to have that conversation. That's all I really have to say about that. Yes. Yeah. What do you think, Kelly? Same.

[E]

Oh, I think you're 100 right on that one. Yeah. I mean, this is. Is too far.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Too far. Yeah. Way too far. Yes. Yeah. You have to build an internal rhythm inside your own home, and it has to be having parents over all the time. Great. Love it. I wish. I wish my parents were over all the time. I love that. But it has to be something that you do together. It can't be one person getting out of whack. It sounds like the real boundary here is between you and your wife, and that's the harder conversation. This is less about her parents. This is less about. This is more about your wife going off, going rogue, and then getting mad at you for not supporting her, doing whatever she just wants to. So that's. That's where the true boundary is. But, no, you're absolutely right. 100%. We got to build some boundaries starting in your marriage and then going from there. Love you guys. Stay out of trouble. Bye.