I Want a Third Child (but My Husband Doesn’t)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show
Episode: I Want a Third Child (but My Husband Doesn’t)
Release Date: July 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, host Dr. John DeLoney delves deep into the complexities of marital disagreements, mental health struggles, and the challenges of setting familial boundaries. The episode features heartfelt caller interactions that shed light on real-life relationship dilemmas, offering listeners valuable insights and practical advice.

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Segment 1: Tara’s Dilemma – Wanting a Third Child

Timestamp: 00:21 - 04:19

Caller: Tara from Rockville, Maryland

Summary: Tara reaches out with a deeply personal conflict: she desires a third child, while her husband is firmly against the idea. With two children under five, Tara feels blessed but envisions expanding her family. Her husband’s reservations stem from past hardships during the birth years of their first two children and concerns about financial strain.

Notable Quotes:

• Tara (00:21): "I would like a third child and he is a hard no."
• Dr. John DeLoney (03:38): "I think the true honest conversation is what up?"

Key Insights:

• The importance of open and honest communication in addressing differing visions for the future.
• Addressing underlying fears and past experiences that influence current decisions.
• Encouraging couples to seek counseling to navigate such sensitive topics.

Advice from Dr. DeLoney: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the necessity of both partners laying their feelings on the table without judgment. He suggests Tara and her husband engage in a structured conversation, possibly with the help of a neutral third party, to explore their desires and fears comprehensively. He also challenges Tara to reconsider the financial objections, pointing out that prioritizing family over material possessions is a valid choice.

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Segment 2: Hannah’s Struggle – Affair and Suicidal Thoughts

Timestamp: 17:03 - 35:28

Caller: Hannah from Salt Lake City, Utah

Summary: Hannah shares a troubling situation involving an affair with her high school sweetheart, who is also married to someone else. Both Hannah and the affair partner are in long-term marriages, and despite their enduring love, external circumstances complicate their relationship. Additionally, Hannah reveals her ongoing battle with suicidal thoughts, heightening the urgency of her predicament.

Notable Quotes:

• Hannah (17:05): "I got sucked in and feel the same way and we're both married to somebody else."
• Dr. John DeLoney (20:25): "So are you actively suicidal now?"
• Dr. DeLoney (34:00): "We are going to have to risk being labeled troublesome...for the care of our kid."

Key Insights:

• The interplay between emotional needs and marital commitments.
• The critical nature of addressing mental health issues, especially suicidality.
• The role of external support systems, such as family and professional counseling, in navigating complex emotional landscapes.

Intervention Highlights: Dr. DeLoney engages Hannah in a compassionate yet firm conversation, urging her to seek immediate help and reinforcing her value in the world. He emphasizes the importance of honesty with her family and the necessity of professional intervention to ensure her safety.

Conclusion of the Segment: Later in the episode, Dr. DeLoney provides a follow-up on Hannah’s situation, explaining the steps taken to ensure her well-being and highlighting the importance of proactive measures in mental health crises.

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Segment 3: Amanda’s Challenge – Navigating In-Law Relationships

Timestamp: 37:02 - 46:53

Caller: Amanda from Nashville, Tennessee

Summary: Amanda discusses the difficulties she and her husband face while staying with his parents, especially during family gatherings like Easter. Issues such as an uncomfortable temperature in the house, lack of cleanliness, and emotional tension make these visits stressful. Additionally, Amanda and her husband struggle with boundaries regarding their two-year-old daughter, as the in-laws persistently push for one-on-one time with her despite clear communication about their discomfort.

Notable Quotes:

• Amanda (37:08): "We set the boundary, but they keep circling back to it."
• Dr. John DeLoney (38:17): "You don't get to decide that one, which stinks."
• Dr. DeLoney (45:08): "I just fundamentally reject her premise entirely."

Key Insights:

• The significance of setting and maintaining personal and familial boundaries.
• Strategies for communicating effectively with in-laws to protect the well-being of one’s child.
• The emotional toll of balancing respect for extended family with the needs of immediate family members.

Advice from Dr. DeLoney: Dr. DeLoney advises Amanda and her husband to clearly articulate their boundaries without delving into subjective judgments about their in-laws’ housekeeping or lifestyle choices. He recommends offering practical solutions, such as staying in separate accommodations when visiting, to minimize stress and maintain familial harmony. Dr. DeLoney also highlights the importance of both partners presenting a united front in setting these boundaries to ensure consistency and reduce anxiety during family interactions.

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Segment 4: Follow-Up on Hannah’s Case and Mental Health Emphasis

Timestamp: 35:33 - 35:28

Summary: Dr. DeLoney revisits Hannah’s situation, providing an update on the actions taken to assist her. He underscores the critical nature of addressing suicidal ideation and the steps involved in conducting a responsible intervention, including contacting authorities for a wellness check.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney (35:00): "Let's all do our part. Nobody's life is better off when someone we know and love dies."
• Dr. DeLoney (35:11): "The world will be a worse place with you not in it."

Key Insights:

• The paramount importance of taking suicidal threats seriously.
• The role of community and professional support in preventing tragedies.
• Encouraging listeners to reach out and offer help to those in need.

Final Thoughts: Dr. DeLoney reinforces the message that mental health crises require immediate and compassionate responses. He advocates for proactive engagement and the utilization of available resources to support individuals facing such challenges.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show poignantly illustrates the multifaceted challenges individuals face in their personal relationships and mental health journeys. Through Tara’s desire for a larger family, Hannah’s emotional turmoil, and Amanda’s struggle with in-law dynamics, Dr. DeLoney offers compassionate guidance and practical strategies to navigate these intricate issues. The episode serves as a valuable resource for listeners seeking real talk on relationships and mental health, emphasizing the importance of communication, boundaries, and professional support.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Tara (00:21): "I would like a third child and he is a hard no."
• Dr. John DeLoney (03:38): "I think the true honest conversation is what up?"
• Hannah (17:05): "I got sucked in and feel the same way and we're both married to somebody else."
• Dr. John DeLoney (20:25): "So are you actively suicidal now?"
• Amanda (37:08): "We set the boundary, but they keep circling back to it."
• Dr. DeLoney (38:17): "You don't get to decide that one, which stinks."
• Dr. John DeLoney (35:00): "Let's all do our part. Nobody's life is better off when someone we know and love dies."
• Dr. DeLoney (35:11): "The world will be a worse place with you not in it."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Open Communication: Essential for resolving differences in marital expectations and visions for the future.
2. Mental Health Awareness: Recognizing and addressing suicidal ideation promptly can save lives.
3. Boundary Setting: Maintaining clear boundaries with extended family is crucial for the well-being of immediate family members.
4. Professional Support: Seeking counseling can provide neutral ground for difficult conversations and aid in navigating complex emotional landscapes.

Overall, Dr. DeLoney masterfully navigates through sensitive topics, providing listeners with both empathy and actionable advice, reinforcing the show's commitment to tackling real-life relationship and mental health challenges.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Big news. New dates for money and marriage Getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get [e-mail] events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Tara]

My question is about when you have a different image of what the future looks like with your spouse. My husband and I have two children today. They're under the age of five. We feel extremely blessed and we're just kind of soaking it up together. However, I would like a third child and he is a hard no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think the true honest conversation is what up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show taking you calls from all over the planet about your mental and emotional health and your marriages and your kids and whatever else you got going on in your life. Real people going through really tough stuff. Let's go to Rockville, Maryland. Dude, I should have been born in a place called Rockville. Rockville, Maryland. And I should have been born actually in Poserville. And talk to Tara. What's up, Tara? How we doing?

[Tara]

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. How are you?

[Tara]

I'm good. I am big fan. I love what you're doing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're, you're the best. I appreciate you. What's up?

[Tara]

So my question is about when you have a different image of what the future looks like with your spouse.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, tell me more.

[Tara]

So specifically, my husband and I have two children today. They're under the age of five. We feel extremely blessed and we're just kind of soaking it up together. However, I would like a third child and he is a hard no. And I know that it would be chaos and hardship to bring another kid into the family. Um, but I also know it would be beautiful. I just don't want to push him to a place of resentment if we do take the plunge.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So how have you all talked about it?

[Tara]

Well, for context, my husband has never really been a hard yes on anything. Like I've kind of led us into the future on all of the big life steps from moving in together, getting married, pets, kids, all of it. So whenever I bring it up, it's like a knee jerk reaction. It's an absolute no. The two things he brings up, which are very valid points, are obviously the financial burden of another kid and then the fact that the first year of both kids lives was just an extremely hard chapter on our marriage. So I haven't really pushed him past that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think the first one I don't care about. I mean, I think about how our parents, they had nothing and when it comes to that kind of stuff, you figure it out. I'm not worried about the financial part of that, and I know that sounds callous and insecure, but parents have been quote, unquote, figuring that out for centuries, for thousands. Like that. That is. That's less of an issue for me. I'd much rather give up a fancy car or fancy house or fancy fill in the blank than. Than that. The second one is a much realer conversation, is he's got a lived experience twice in the last five years. His, his. He's watched his wife suffer. He's felt his marriage go underwater. And I think to have this conversation, there's going to have to be another picture painted of, here's how this might be different. When you say tell me about. I mean, when you say. When you say your marriage was really tough for the year after. Both kids. Tell me about that.

[Tara]

Both of our babies had colic reflux, you know, the whole nine. So it's just a really challenging chapter, taking care of them and navigating the new space together as parents. And I thought the second time around would be easier because we knew what we were doing, but it just still wasn't. And I felt like he, you know, was a little bit not ready to take that. That plunge into kid, too. And then I encouraged it. And now he loves both of our kids and he's so happy, so grateful.

[Hannah]

That we did it. It's just.

[Amanda]

It was temporarily really hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Tara]

So, like, while I know we'll overcome that hard chapter, I just worry. I know Wolver Co.

[Hannah]

I think it's.

[Tara]

It's the hesitancy for him. And I. I'm like you with the financial piece. But he's not like, he really does care about the nice car, the nice things, and wants to have that money available to do those things. So I haven't pushed it. I've just kind of sat with this for a year now, and I just don't know that I'm okay closing that door and being done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I think that's the true honest conversation. And I think the true honest conversation is I want us both to sit down and put both of our feelings on the table. And I think it helps for one person and it can be you in this moment to say, hey, I'm not leaving you and you're not leaving me. So we're anchored into this conversation. So let's explore this in a challenging way. And it might mean that you need to get a counselor just to have a neutral third party. To make sure everybody's hearing what the other person is saying. But I think it's fair to say I have this very clear picture of 15 years from now, 20 years from now. And there's. I don't know. Do you have sons or daughters right now?

[Tara]

Daughters.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. We have two daughters and a son sitting around a table or three daughters sitting around a table with their knuckleheaded boyfriends or fiances or getting ready for co. Like, whatever that world looks like. I have a very clear picture in my mind of that. And right now, it feels like I've.

[Tara]

Exactly said that, actually.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what does he say?

[Tara]

I've said. I've said, when I see our table, you know, years from now, I just. I feel like there's another person at the table. And he's like, well, I don't. You know, I never saw myself having any more than two kids. And he's just closed off to the conversation. But, I mean, as somebody who's convinced him to do many things, I can't really take that for a hard no, because I've seen him change his mind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well, then have that conversation.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you don't want to do is ever have any partner, male or female, like, in either of you feel like they are being dragged through their own life. But it is a fair conversation to say, hey, I feel like I've pushed you on. On getting together, on getting married, on kid one, on kid two. And I feel like I've been right every time. And so I'm feeling like I want to keep pushing because I have this picture of our family, and I see what a great dad you are. I see how full you are with love and connection with these crazy daughters of ours. And. But also, I feel like a fancy car is more important than this. And I mean, just put it on the table and have that conversation. I can't give you a 5149 on this deal. I know that at some point, if he looks at you and for the first time in yalls relationship together gives you a really hard no, then you have a decision to make. Am I going to live in resentment and frustration and anger? Am I going to hold this against him, or am I going to exhale and be really grateful for the family we have? Am I going to be deceitful and not take birth control? Like, you get to decide what your next steps are? My. My hope is that you. You choose to remain connected. And on the other side, if he chooses to say, like, hey, the. These first. These. The first year after each one of these kids was such a nightmare. And if you brought on the table, we'll get some. We'll get some support help. We'll have a nanny, we'll have somebody move in with us. We will fill in the blank. I think the deeper conversation for me is, and tell me if I'm wrong. I heard a little bit of disdain in your voice. Like, if it's a money thing and it's over a depreciating asset of a car sit in the driveway. That's hard to. That's hard to stomach.

[Tara]

Yeah, exactly. I feel like anything financially related or materialistic is just not a good reason to do it. And you know, to me, there are more important things. I guess if it is like a hard no that I shouldn't push. I just struggle on how to be at peace with that and how to move forward and still stay connected like you suggested.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, you'll have to grieve that picture that you thought you were going to have. I mean, and it's a sad season, and it's not at. It doesn't minimize. I think we're sold that, like, grief is some zero. Right. That to grieve something fully means you have to take love away from something else. That doesn't mean you don't love and you're not super grateful for your two daughters. It's that, yeah, you wanted to bring even more of that love and joy into the world and.

[Tara]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your partner said he didn't want that. But it sounds like the real thing is you don't buy. Kind of like me, you don't buy the financial argument. And he doesn't regret one second now that the year. The year is the crummy years in the rearview mirror. He doesn't regret that.

[Tara]

Yeah, that's what I keep pushing on him. Like, I know we could do this if, if, if you say, okay, I'm in. I know we would get through it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, take. Take the money off the table then, and maybe even say us saying we don't have enough money simply isn't true. It's. We are choosing to have nice cars. We're choosing to have a nice house. We're choosing to go nice vacation. So that part's not true. Let's move that over because you and I are going to disagree on that. Because I think having a third kid is more important than driving the newest, fanciest car. So let's move that over here. The real issue is. Tell me about what we lost. What you lost. Tell me about what you experienced in that year after baby one and that year after baby two. Because I want to. I'm asking you because I want to see if there's things that we could put into place so that the year after baby number three might be different. And maybe that's the case. But I think it's drilling down into what is this big no about? Because it sounds like there's something else there. I don't know what that would be. And. But, but man, the year after or tough pregnancies or bad postpartum or almost separation or sleepless nights at. At the office and watching somebody's work performance fall, like, those are all reasons to fear doing this again. I get that.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Tara]

It's all valid. It's just I think I have been avoiding a real conversation with him on it. So I think that this is going to push me to actually have a real sit down and not just a drive by. Why don't we, you know, I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think. I think that also sends a message of seriousness to him. And do it off site. Do it in the morning. Do it like when, like plan it. Like, hey, I want to have a real heart. A real. Not hard, but like a. Let's have an honest conversation. Breakfast. Are you in? He'll be like, what? Good God, I got a mo. And you're like, no, no, no. I know I got child care for the girls, but I want to take you out and talk to about you. Talk about something serious with you.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to be direct about the money thing. That's just not true. Here's the bigger issue and let's get into that. Does that sound fair?

[Tara]

Yeah. No, it's definitely. I think it's looming over my head and it's just.

[Hannah]

It.

[Tara]

It has to happen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And for whatever it's worth, you have to promise you won't weaponize this. You promise? Say I promise.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I will.

[Tara]

Probably. I promise.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would have made that exact same argument about kid number three. And probably the only regret I have in my whole life. I've been mean to a few people and I wish I could have those back. The biggest. Not Kelly. I'd never regret that. The. Probably the biggest regret I have is that I don't. We didn't have number three.

[Hannah]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I did not understand the place.

[Tara]

I don't want to be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. I know. But. No, no. I'm the husband in this situation. I'm. I'm the guy that would have been like, hey, we don't have the money. We don't have this. We don't have that. And like the first two were had, you know, this challenge and that. Like, I would have spun up some stories. I got to finish my other degree. I've got to do this. We need to, like, I would have had a thousand different, different things, but Now I have one 9 year old and one 15 year old. Like, I just am so overwhelmed by love when I walk in my house and just, I'm just so overwhelmed by it all. About how awesome and blessed I am to have two healthy, fun, hilarious kids and a pretty amazing spouse. And so, yeah, adding the third, I would just, in my mind, it would just quadruple the fun because I think those things, Roi, they don't, they don't just, it didn't just add like a third more fun. It would add like 4x the fun. But anyway, also, my daughter made me a 50 point power presentation of not PowerPoint, but like she wrote a book and she stapled it together. It's a 50 point treaties on why we need a third kid, a daughter. And it's pretty cute actually. So we went to Walmart and got a fake baby. And that's one of the hardest I've laughed ever. When she found out that you can put diapers on a, on a doll. It was a riot. Awesome. All right, we come back, we talk to a woman who is having an affair with her high school sweetheart who is also married to somebody else. Check this one out. I grew up playing sports and I grew up in weight rooms. And I realized a few years ago that I took for granted how scared and insecure and even lost people can feel when they first go into a gym or a weight room or gym classes for the first time. And now that I'm getting older, I even find myself in traditional gyms, looking around and sizing myself up next to some beefcake musclehead. Here's the truth. We all need to lift weights. We all need to move our bodies. Men, women, young and old. Everyone needs to lift heavy things and move around. But knowing what to do, when to do it, or even how to do it can be super intimidating. So whether you've been lifting and working out for decades or you're ready to get started for the very first time, I want you to check out my friends at trainwell. I've used their workouts. My wife and her friends use them. My manager and his wife use them. Even Kelly uses them. My older sister is using them. Everyone is becoming a train well devotee. It's a movement TrainWell offers tailored workouts with step by step guidance from real people. Meaning it's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer. It's the best of both worlds. To start, you take a short quiz and then get matched with a real live coach, someone who actually listens to you. And together you build a plan that works for your body, your season of life, and your goals. They have step by step videos that give you guidance and your trainer will check in with you after your workouts. And now is the time to take control of your body once and for all. Check out my friends at TrainWell. TrainWell has a special offer for my audience. Just 89 bucks a month when you lock in your plan, plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.net DeLoney Right now, that's trainwell.net DeLoney Yo, Poncho is back as a supporter of this show and I am super jazzed about it. If you've seen me on stages across the country, if you've watched this show or even seen me recently when I was fishing with my son out in the surf during a trip to Gulf Shores, or you might have even seen me mowing my yard, my acres out here in Nashville, I'm always wearing poncho shirts. I'm wearing one right now. Poncho makes the absolute best outdoor performance shirts for men, period. Whether they are sponsoring the show or not, you will almost always seeing me wear poncho. And of course I love their denims and their insanely soft flannels. But now that it's super hot outside, I'm wearing Poncho shirts outside too. They're lightweight and they're breathable, yet they're still tough enough to handle whatever chaos my day brings. And I'm talking everything from travel to being up to my chest, fishing in the surf or doing yard work. These shirts move with you, not against you. They dry fast and they don't cling or bunch up and they come in slim or regular fits. So you're not just walking around like a circus tent or a sausage link. Go over to poncho outdoors.com deloney and try them out for yourself Right now. New customers get 10 bucks off their first purchase. You just sign up with your email. Go to poncho outdoors.com DeLoney to get the shirts for the men in your life. Trust me, Poncho Ultralight shirts are a summer essential for me and they will be a summer essential for you. Salt Lake City, Utah let's talk to Hannah Hey Hannah what's up?

[Hannah]

Hey, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How we doing?

[Hannah]

I don't. Not good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not good. That doesn't sound good. What's up?

[Hannah]

Me and my high school boyfriend have lived in the same town forever. We see each other once in a while over the last 40 years and we're both 60 and recently reconnected. Thought it was just going to be a conversation turned into him telling me how much he loves me still and has missed me over all these years and on and on and on and I got sucked in and feel the same way and we're both married to somebody else. He's been married 40 years. I've only been married for eight to the man that I'm married to now. He's very, very prominent in the state and in our city. So everybody knows him. His, one of his children has had cancer. He says he doesn't want to leave his wife. He's not unhappy with his wife. He doesn't dare leave his family. Blow up his family because of this child. Well, he's not a child. He's an adult that has had cancer. Needs to get him to his five year mark, which is two more years and still sees me and calls me and tells me we have a visceral kind of love, which I agree with and don't know what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you think you should do?

[Hannah]

I don't know. That's why I'm calling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. I guess what I would tell you is it sounds as though you're being used as some sort of cocaine if you will as a distraction from the challenges of having a prominent job, of having a sick kid, of having a long 40 year. Marriages can get boring too. But you are this side fantasy of this alternative life he might have had had he married you back when you are high school sweethearts and you get his heart rate up and you let him check out of his. The pressure of his day to day life. And then he's also been very clear with like this will go nowhere.

[Hannah]

For at least two years which I don't know that I believe even the two year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wouldn't believe a single word spoken.

[Hannah]

Okay. It's also very scary because I'm so invested. He also says he is and I and have been very suicidal for years of my life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What does that.

[Hannah]

Attempted it five years ago. Didn't. Didn't do a great job at that either. Just, it's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So are you actively suicidal now?

[Hannah]

I'm not gonna say I'm not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, if you are, I'm gonna have Somebody come to your house today?

[Hannah]

No, I don't want anybody to come to my house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but I. I love you enough to not just hang up the phone on you.

[Hannah]

No, it's. No, I'm working through that with a therapist. They wanted to put me in the hospital a couple weeks ago. I wouldn't let them. So what if.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What if that's what you need to do, is to go to a hospital?

[Hannah]

I need to figure this problem out with this guy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's. It. The, you know, the. You've got it figured out. How many. How many times have you been married? You said the guy you're married to now. Have you been married in the past?

[Hannah]

Yes, this is my fourth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your fourth husband? Okay.

[Hannah]

Yes. And you want my last. My Last one was 22 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Why did y' all end up breaking up?

[Hannah]

He had lots and lots of girlfriends.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Hannah]

For the. For the last 13 years of our marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What about the husband before him?

[Hannah]

We were married for five years. He was doing drugs and hiding it in our house and I had no idea. I just packed up my kids and left.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Tell me about the guy you're married to now.

[Hannah]

He's very calm, content. He's got agoraphobia. Doesn't ever want to go do anything or go anywhere. He's going to be the 60 year old guy that turns 90 really quick when he retires. They'll just sit on the couch and not do anything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So maybe this. This affair you're having with this other guy is. Is kind of your way to check out of the life you have and the life you see coming right at you also, huh?

[Hannah]

Yeah. Yeah. 100. I agree with you on that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a way to go to a fireworks show without having to live with the reality of it all. Right. Right. Yeah.

[Hannah]

I'm content.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

I mean, well, I was tell a boyfriend came back in the picture.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Amanda]

Now.

[Hannah]

It'S hard to get through every day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Somebody's telling me they have a visceral love for me. That. And I have a husband that sits on the couch.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Who would do anything for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know he would.

[Hannah]

He's a nice guy. But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And usually prominent folks in different communities are very good at wordsmithing. Right.

[Amanda]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

He's an attorney.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So he's good at speaking and he knows how to say things and he knows how to say the words to get somebody fired up.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it may be that your current husband loves you to the moon and back like you say he'd do Anything for you. And he might not have the skill set to be a. Have a silver tongue and be able to, you know, make you feel 16 again. Yeah, but here's the thing I'm hearing. You don't want to be. You don't want to be this person.

[Hannah]

What person?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think it's in you to be cheating on a man that loves you.

[Hannah]

Wrong, I know, but I think it's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think the wrong is bigger than the morality. Of course. Of course that's wrong. You pledged your fidelity to somebody. I think it's bigger than that. I think you know it's wrong because you know it's not real. It's a distraction because. Because here's the thing. I had a visceral love for my girlfriend who ended up being my wife. I skipped final exams to go be with her. I skipped events. I just basically canceled things in my life. And so if there was a visceral love, regardless of, like, if this was the. A movie, then regardless of position, regardless of whatever, he leaves you, and you'll go happily ever after. And so what he's describing isn't what that actually is.

[Hannah]

No. I'm afraid when he ends it, but I'm also gonna be done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's. That's where I'm not going to let you off the phone until I have a pretty firm commitment. Because you've also proven to yourself over the last 40 or 50 years that you can have painful things come into your life. Like when you found out the man that you loved was bringing drugs into your house. When you found out the man you loved was having multiple affairs. You found out that you can experience really painful moments and painful breakups and you can keep going. You've been there before. And it hurts.

[Hannah]

It's hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is hard that you're worth.

[Hannah]

Tired. I'm not. Oh, you are. Never felt worth anything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't care what you feel. I'm telling you the truth. Can we be honest and say Hannah's feelings always haven't been accurate over the course of her life?

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Okay, so let's don't make. Let's don't make permanent decisions based on a. A thermometer that we know doesn't. Does isn't always have the right temperature in it. Because the evidence that sits before me is you're a 60 year old woman at the end of the third quarter, starting the fourth quarter of her life. Yes, you got a fourth husband who you love, but he's a bump on a log. And you'd like to see some kind of fire in him, at least for him to go take on the agoraphobia.

[Hannah]

He won't go anywhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but maybe you have a counselor that can come to the house.

[Hannah]

Well, he started a counselor last week.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, that's amazing. Step one.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In the same way that your body feels just alive when this other guy texts you, right?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The same way your body feels that way. His body feels on fire like that when he walks out of his house. And he just has to learn, in the same way you have to learn that that text message that you're getting isn't real. He's got to learn that his body's screaming at him. You're not safe. You're not safe. That, that's. That that alarm's not real either. I mean, the alarm is real, but it's not telling the truth.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he'll. I mean, if you seen a counselor, then that's. That's a step in the right direction. That's fantastic.

[Hannah]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'd be really proud of a 60 year old man saying, I don't want to live the last 30 years of my life like this. That's awesome.

[Hannah]

Well, he doesn't think he has anything wrong.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I know no 60 year old men does. Right?

[Hannah]

You're right. You're right. But at least he's willing to try.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. So let's flip this whole thing around for a second. Okay.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What if you end it?

[Hannah]

What if I end my marriage?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, silly. What if you end this pretend affair?

[Hannah]

I've tried. I've tried and it doesn't work. It doesn't stay. If I say I'm done. Within a few days, one of us has contacted each other.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Paint me a picture of how this ends.

[Hannah]

I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think you do.

[Hannah]

He probably tells me that he can't do it anymore.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or he gets caught and found out and he loses everything and y' all both get dragged through the newspapers and through the Internet.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that could happen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And let me just ask you a hard question. Do you want to be with a man who's in a 40 year marriage, that's child is dying from cancer? I mean, does that sound like a person who's integris that then leaves that situation to go have some side action with Hannah? Let me just say you're worth being loved. More than that.

[Hannah]

I feel loved when I'm with him, though.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's because it's. I know, but it's because it's because it's fake. Because it's safe. I mean, it's. It's an illusion. It. Like, it's. It. There's no responsibilities. He's not going to leave his dirty underwear on the floor. And he's not going to be gone late all the time. All the time. All the time. All the time. And he's not having to go sit with your kid getting interferon treatments in a cancer ward. Well, I think what you feel is relief because your day in and day out life is hard. You don't even like being in your own skin sometimes, right?

[Hannah]

Most of the time, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a relief.

[Hannah]

It is a relief.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the real challenge is how do I find relief and hang on to my values at the same time?

[Hannah]

I don't know the answer to that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but that's. That's the question.

[Hannah]

Stay alive.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. That's the right. That's the question that you and your therapist work out together.

[Hannah]

I don't know the answer. I don't know how I could not see you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can. You've done really tough stuff over your. Over the course of your life, haven't you?

[Hannah]

Yeah, I've been through some things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I bet you have. You're probably one of the strongest women I know.

[Hannah]

I don't know about that. It's just I get in the fight or flight, and I just want to leave.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. And so in the same way, your husband's gets into fight, flight, or freeze, and he wants to freeze, and he's teaching himself that he's got to go sometimes.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's your new adventure is. I'm not going to run from this. I'm actually going to sit in it. I'm going to feel it, and it feels hot. It feels painful. And then I'm going to go do the next right thing. Do you have any kids, Hannah?

[Hannah]

I've got three grown boys who are very successful with families.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do they know that you're struggling?

[Hannah]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I think it's time to let them know because they are not going to go have a conversation with their grandkid, your grandkids, about how grandma died by suicide. We're not doing that. Fair.

[Hannah]

We want to do that, Hannah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're not doing fair. Which one of your sons are you going to reach out to when we get off the phone here? One, two or three?

[Hannah]

Maybe my oldest.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need. I need a confirmation that you're going to reach out and say that. That your mom is not doing okay.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

With Your oldest number one. Tell me. I promise you I will call him the moment I get off the phone with him and tell him that I'm not doing okay.

[Hannah]

I'll call him and tell him I'm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thinking about hurting myself.

[Hannah]

He doesn't. He didn't know that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hannah, either. I'm. Either you're gonna make that call, or I'm gonna send the authorities to your house within the next 15 minutes.

[Hannah]

I'll call him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Listen to me. I'm really grateful that you called. Okay?

[Hannah]

Thank you for talking to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The world will be a worse place with you not in it. Okay. That's why you're gonna stay in it, right?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need you to hear me say. I mean, I need to hear you say I'm gonna stay alive in.

[Hannah]

Gonna try. Nope.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm gonna stay alive in this world.

[Hannah]

Let's just stay alive in this world.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you for honoring me with that.

[Hannah]

Thank you for your help.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, you're gonna call your boy right now?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I'm proud of you for making that phone call.

[Hannah]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, talk to you soon. Okay.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We'll be right back. All right, it's time for a quick word about Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right back to us? Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph, where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. And you get an email or a text or a phone call, and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's trying to help you out and look out for you, but they're not. With the new technological advancements, no one is really safe. So what is any of us to do? First, you can start by controlling what you can learn about. How to be careful online and offline and sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Delete Me because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. That way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data. They've reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me, and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, the harassment, and the other online threats before they even start, and take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney today for 20% off the annual plan, that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's join delete me.com deloney all right, let's go right down the street in Nashville, Tennessee and talk to Amanda. Hey, Amanda, what's up?

[Amanda]

Hi, Dr. John, how are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm great.

[Hannah]

How are you doing?

[Amanda]

Well, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. What's up?

[Amanda]

Okay, I wrote out my question, so I'm just going to read it to you and then you can ask any follow up questions.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, Perfect.

[Amanda]

Okay. My husband and I are having a hard time figuring out how to handle visits to his parents house. They're not bad people, but staying with them is really challenging. At Easter, for example, our room was 80 degrees. The house isn't very clean, and there's a lot of emotional tension during conversations. It just doesn't feel like an optimal environment, especially now that we have a two year old daughter. On top of that, they continue to push for alone time with our daughter, even though we've clearly communicated that we're not comfortable with that right now. We set the boundary, but they keep circling back to it. My husband is one of 10 kids and my in laws have 23 grandchildren. My husband and I do not want to be labeled difficult like some of his other siblings, but we're both getting tired and anxious every time a visit comes up. How do we navigate this in a way that protects our daughter, respects our boundaries, and doesn't completely blow up family relationships?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a great question. I think you have given yourself three variables that don't work together.

[Amanda]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so read your last sentence back to me.

[Amanda]

In a way that protects our daughter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, stop.

[Amanda]

Number one, boundary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so we got protect daughter, which is number one most important.

[Amanda]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, what's number two?

[Amanda]

Respects our boundaries.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That is, here's the house that we want to have. Here's the family that we want to have. Here's the emotional and for lack of better terms, a psychological. It's not really the right word there, but that like the, the tenor of our home. Okay, and what's the third one?

[Amanda]

Doesn't completely blow up family relationships.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, you don't get to decide that one, which stinks. So tell me if I'm wrong here, but there's probably out of 10 siblings, there's probably some pariahs, some people that have been labeled difficult. And maybe you even heard your husband talk about how difficult they. And then now that y' all are living in this, you're like, oh, maybe they weren't so difficult after all.

[Amanda]

Yeah, yeah. There's one sibling in particular that lives about 12 hours from his parents house. And so, you know, obviously it's a big trek to get there to fly or drive. And we always wondered why his family did not stay with his parents like his brother's family. So, I mean, I guess I always found myself just kind of wondering but never actually asking the question. And then now that we have relocated and stay with his parents, I'm like, I get that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So for whatever it's worth, I love my parents and I have a good relationship with them and I stay in a hotel. My family stays in a hotel whenever we travel.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I am. They've made comments before like, well, why don't y' all just. But they have a, they have a small place and it's a patio home and it's perfect for them and occasionally one of my kids will spend the night there. But like a. I don't sleep well when I'm on the road and if I don't sleep, I'm just tough to be around. And so sleep is important thing for me and it allows us to do our morning stuff and not everybody's got to share the same. But it's, it's really, it's really a gift from us to them and at the same time it's a gift to ourselves so that we show up as good as we possibly can.

[Hannah]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And there's been times when I stay at my other in law's house. They've got a, they've got a big property and so sometimes I will stay or me and my wife will stay in the camper in the back and the kids stay in the house. Right. So it's. All I have to say is this. Y' all get to decide what's best for your family and then the adults in the room get to decide how they're going to respond to your boundaries. And if they respond to your boundaries by making accusations, by being ugly to you, by being rude to you, etc. Then they may be opting for you guys not to come around so much.

[Amanda]

Right, right. And I, Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I guess. I don't, I, I don't. If I get to be labeled the difficult person or whatever, then that's a choice they are choosing and that is a label they are making. I don't have to wear that label.

[Amanda]

Right, right. I think the difficulty here is that the way that their house is now is the way that my husband was raised as far as just like the level of cleanliness and not running the heat and air like most families do and that kind of thing. So I guess that's kind of where my question comes from. And he's, to be clear, he's not comfortable staying there either, like physically comfortable, but it's just kind of one of those things where he's like, well, this is how I was raised. So if we stop staying here, it's going to be this like big emotional conversation. And yeah. So we're just trying to navigate that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I don't even, I don't even think it's worth casting judgment on his parents. That's how they've raised 10 kids. I mean, they raised one of the boys that you fell in love with. Right. And so if they, if, if people like their house hotter or people like their house colder, they get to do that.

[Hannah]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y' all are the ones that get to have the, to get to have your own boundaries and your boundaries don't require anything of anybody else. Now if you say, hey, it's too hot here, y' all don't ever run your air conditioner, that's why we're not sleeping here. Hey, that wouldn't be the full truth. And B, yeah, that would be judging how they choose to have the house. I think a broader, simpler conversation is, dude, we like to spread out. It's more comfortable. It's just easier for everybody and we can come and go, we got a little baby in and out. Like, it's just easier for all of us. And this is what we find more comfortable when we travel. Period.

[Amanda]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And any more explanation, like, well, tell me what you mean about comfort. I don't want to get into all that. I'm just choosing to not go down that road. It just, it's more comfortable for all of us. And then we show up here bright eyed and ready to hang out and I, right, maybe this is me, take this or leave, you know, take it or leave it. I assume all good grandparents always want to have time with, with their new grandbaby. I get that. And I get them always wanting to ask. And maybe now, and maybe now, and maybe now I get that. And so I get that it's annoying also, but I'm never going to knock a grandparent for wanting to spend more focused time with a grandkid. And I don't ever knock parents for saying, hey, I'm uncomfortable with this for whatever reasons. Let me ask you, is there safety reasons or is there abuse reasons? Like why don't you want your, your grandparents, I mean, your in laws to be around your kid?

[Amanda]

There's not any abuse concerns or anything like that. My husband is towards the end of the 10 kids, so his parents are older and not in great health.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Amanda]

So, you know, for instance, like, they wouldn't be able to, you know, carry her anywhere, you know, that kind of thing. Like just physically, like, picking up. So we didn't let them watch her independently when she was an infant because they couldn't get up and down off the floor like that kind of thing. But my mother in law has. I've. I've told my husband I'm okay with her offering to watch our daughter. It's when she pushes past and I'm like, oh, no. Like, thank you for offering. You know, no, thank you. When we keep pushing. That's kind of the problem for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Amanda]

She did sit us down and have a long conversation about a lot of things. And we have a long history with his parents. But if you have questions about, I can answer. But she said we can't spend quality time with her if you're around. And kind of our way of working it out is when we're at their house or when they're at our house, if our daughter is like reading books with them or playing a game with them or doing puzzles, like, we stay out of it. Like, I'm not interrupting and inserting myself. I'm like cooking or hold on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just fundamentally reject her premise entirely.

[Amanda]

Yeah. Yeah. Because my parents don't say that like, they spend quality time with her. With us there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. If she said, hey, y' all need to go on a date. Y' all get out of here so you can go on a date. And I want to spend some time with this baby. That's all. That's good. But that immediately when somebody says something like that, it makes me wonder what else is happening.

[Amanda]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, yeah, like, y' all aren't crazy. But I will say this. This is your husband's conversation to have with his parents.

[Amanda]

Yes. And he's had a lot of really tough conversations with them over the past year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Amanda]

You know, about a lot of really deep things. So I've been really proud of him for navigating that on our behalf, you know?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Amanda]

My new coined phrase is you're welcome to offer to step in. Just don't ask me to step aside. Like, you can offer to do something for our child and. But if I say no, like, that's where the conversation needs to end.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. And then you are going to have to not just quote, like, hope isn't Hope Is an action. It's a step we take. A wish is, I just want this all to be different.

[Amanda]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so when you get that request and you say, oh, no, thank you. I appreciate the offer, though. No, you need to leave that kid and you need to go. All right, I'm gonna go ahead and head out because hope is in action. Hope is taking the next right step. It's not just wringing your hands, like, wishing that this situation is going to change itself somehow.

[Amanda]

I think I've probably been doing more of the wishing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know.

[Amanda]

Than taking action.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. And taking action always comes at a cost. Always.

[Amanda]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I think it's just. I think it's just wrapping your head around, hey, we're not trapped in this and this and this. We are going to have to risk being labeled troublesome, annoying, blah, blah, blah, for the care of our kid and that. I don't hear anything in you being, like, thinking that they're less than y'. All. I don't hear that. I don't hear any like. Like, they keep their house real hot and they keep their house real cold. People get to do that, right? And I don't know, I keep my house real cold, but then I go get in a sauna and I keep my house real warm in the winter, then I could get in a cold plunge. And so, I mean, when they dig up my ashes years from now, when anthropologists dig us all up, like, that didn't make any sense, right? But so it is what it is. And cleanliness standards, all that, you all just get to opt to stay at a different place. That's. That's all good. I'm not going to judge it. It's just. That's for me and my house. We're going to stay here. The next layer is, man, people are going to make stories up about you for the rest of your life. They're going to judge this parenting or that parenting. I can't believe you don't give your kid a phone. I can't believe you don't give your kid, like, a little AI friend to carry around with them, like, whatever, whatever the thing that's coming down the road, that's just going to be the rest of your life. And so getting some firm boundaries within yourself and within your marriage. And kudos, your husband, dude, shout out as a hero. Him having some hard conversations, that's. That's amazing. I'm proud of him. I'm really proud of him for that. So hope that helps. Amanda, thank you so much for the call. We will be right back. Hey, it's Jelony for Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. Life moves so fast. We're all juggling work, family and a million other things. And in the chaos, we often forget to pause and reflect. Creating peace in your life doesn't just happen. We have to choose it. Even if we only have a tiny little sliver of peace, we have to be intentional about it. We have to make space for it. And that is where Hallow comes in. Hallow provides you amazing opportunities to slow down and reconnect with what matters most. One of the best features on Hallow is the daily reflections with Jeff Cavins because he helps you connect scripture with real life challenges and with real life joys. Or if you're struggling with anxiety or feeling overwhelmed, Hallow offers mental health meditations and prayers that I have found useful. From healing emotional wounds to establishing healthy habits, these guided prayers give you words of comfort and longing when you're all out of things to say. If you're ready to find some peace in the chaos and some purpose in your day, check out Hallow right now. When you sign [e-mail] DeLoney you get three months for free. That's Hallow. H A l l o w.com Deloney for three months for free. Hey, we are back. I'll take a quick moment to let you in on a follow up from a call we took earlier in this show. We had a call from a woman who was 60 years old, is married in her fourth marriage and is having an affair with a prominent person in her city in her state. She also reported that she has been actively suicidal and was supposed to be hospitalized a few weeks ago. It was recommended she was hospitalized a few weeks ago. And so I want everyone to know a couple things. One, I did not do a full suicide assessment over the phone. And so if you're thinking, oh, this is how you do that, I do ask very directly, are you thinking about hurting yourself? Are you thinking about dying by suicide? And so hopefully you heard me do that with her. We did notify the authorities in her area and they are doing a wellness check as of now. And so I don't know what the end result of that will be and they won't call me and let us know. But my team did reach out. It's never okay to not send somebody. And despite her saying I'll make a phone call, despite her saying I'm not okay, here's what I know. 55 and older men especially, but women are trying to catch up. Here is a very high risk population for dying by suicide. Isolation, loneliness, health issues, financial issues, and on and on and on. So it is a high risk category. And I just don't play around with that. I never have and I never will. Um, I've just been to too many situations where someone has died by suicide, and I've just seen the aftermath. Also know that getting firm confirmations you're not going to do this, that is important. I need you to say those words out loud. And also in this situation, I felt it was right to call. There's a strong possibility she's really angry with me. There's a strong possibility that she says, I hate you and gets online and says a bunch of mean stuff about all that. All good. She's allowed to do that. But if she's alive to make those posts and get angry with me, then I've won, Then I'm doing my thing. And hopefully she hung up the phone and called one of her. Her oldest son, like she mentioned she was going to. And she said she's had some suicidality for a lot of her adult life, so her son's probably dealt with this before, and it might be really frustrating. Who. Who knows? It's not for me to figure out here, but I think it's just important for you all to know, always, always stop and ask the question, are you thinking about hurting yourself? Are you thinking about dying by suicide? Are you thinking of killing yourself? However you want to phrase it, but don't ever shy away from that question. And then the next questions usually are, do you have means to do that? And do you have a plan in this situation? I was pretty confident that she wasn't messing around, and so I even skipped that and just said, I'm going to hand this straight off to the authority. So all I have to say is we're doing our part here to reach out and take care, folks. And I'm going to ask that everybody, whether it's your parent, whether it's your neighbor, whether that's somebody who reaches out to you, let's all do our part. Let's all do our part. Nobody's life is better off when someone we know and love dies. Thank you so much for being with us on the show, and I look forward to talking to you guys next time. Love y'. All. Bye.