← The Dr. John Delony Show
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- [00:06]
Will
His wife kind of made a pass at me, and we have been in an affair now for the last eight months or so.
- [00:14]
John Deloney
You're not calling me to ask like, oh, God, I've blown up my life and my wife's life. It's not why you're calling. You're calling to ask, is this true love or not? What's going on? What's going on? This is John with a Dr. John Lon show. Hope you have a lot of joy in your life. Today may not be the best day of your life. You may not be super happy, but I hope that you're where you need to be doing the things you need to be doing to help create the life that you want to be living. Man, on this show, I sit with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move in these crazy lives we're trying to live in these crazy times. And I, I know when this show will come out, hopefully things will dramatically have improved. But, man, we are a week into just the cost. It cost wildfires going on with our friends and family in Los Angeles and the surrounding areas. And so just know that if you're listening to the show right now, it was, it was shot a month earlier and. But we are actively thinking about and praying about and involved in supporting our friends and loved ones. So everybody listening from out there, thank y'all for joining us. And please don't be shy about asking for the help and care that you need and give her. Give your neighbors and friends a chance to step up. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to john deloney.com ask a. Let's go right down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee, and talk to Will. What's up, Will? How we doing, man?
- [01:49]
Will
Hey, John. How's it going?
- [01:50]
John Deloney
I'm doing all right, brother. What's up?
- [01:52]
Will
Hey, so I got a quick question for you here. I, I kind of got myself in a little bit of predicament, and so I'll just. My wife and I, we've been married for about five years, and in that timeframe, I was able to reconnect with a friend of mine that I had made, a male friend of mine that I had made after high school and whatnot, started to kind of hang out with with him and found out kind of through hanging out with him that his, his wife kind of made a pass at me. And we have been in an affair the last probably eight months or so. We've obviously talked about just about everything under the sun and I guess I'm trying to figure out, you know, if I. Am I interested in this person or is it just the thrill of having an affair and doing something obviously that you know, you're not supposed to do. And so I'm trying to, trying to figure out how to figure that out because, you know, I, I just want a little bit of advice on trying to, how to progress forward with that.
- [03:17]
John Deloney
Oh man. So let me just walk it back and you can just, yeah, tell me up or down. So you are sleeping with a great friend's wife.
- [03:33]
Will
Correct.
- [03:34]
John Deloney
Does your friend know?
- [03:36]
Will
He does not.
- [03:37]
John Deloney
Does your wife know?
- [03:39]
Will
She does not.
- [03:40]
John Deloney
And so you're not calling me to ask like, oh God, I've blown up my life in my wife's life and I've blown up one of my close buddies lives. It's not why you're calling. You're calling to ask is this true love or not?
- [03:54]
Will
I'm calling to ask because, you know, in the time that I've chatted with this person, you know, we've obviously we've, we've talked a lot more about the, the, just the, the physical nature of, of things and you know, there's been times where we've both had the idea that, you know, our lives potentially could be better with that other person. But obviously that's not something that I, you know, want to, I don't want to jump into something or I don't want it to technically pursue something and then turns out it was just because of the thrill of an affair. I mean, my wife and I, we've had our struggles and our issues pre the involvement of the affair or my friend almost called it off a few different times without that being a factor. So I think it was just kind of came across at the timing that I was the most vulnerable to accept it. But yeah, so.
- [05:05]
John Deloney
So I guess the best thing I could tell you or the right thing I could tell you is you are so it's like you're watching the Lion King. Watching like you're watching like a Disney movie in the theater and you're watching these animals all talking to each other and you're wondering what it would be like to talk to one of those animals too. Like, okay, your, your questions are so divorced from the reality with which you actually find yourself that it tells me that you've had to construct a world where this is okay and there's a world that everything's going to be okay on the other end. Of this, because if you didn't have that kind of psychological moat around what you're actually doing, you would implode because you become somebody that you could never have imagined you would be. You're sleeping with it.
- [06:05]
Will
That makes sense.
- [06:05]
John Deloney
You're sleeping with one of your closest friends, wives, period.
- [06:11]
Will
Right.
- [06:11]
John Deloney
Actively, for over a year, having sex with somebody that's not your wife, putting her at physical danger, putting her at grave emotional danger. I mean, like. And what you're thinking about is, man, isn't this going to be wonderful on the other side of this thing? It's kind of like watching. It's like. It's like you're in Los Angeles right now, watching your house burn down and wondering where you're going to put the new kitchen during the rebuild.
- [06:38]
Will
Right?
- [06:38]
John Deloney
Like, you're not absorbing reality. And so, number one, no place in this conversation are we talking about, how are these feelings real or not? Not until we've looked your wife in the eye and said, I've blown our marriage up and I don't want to be with you anymore. Not until you've looked your buddy in the eye and said, I've been sleeping with your wife for a year, and I'm sorry. And after the ash settles back to earth after that conversation, those conversations, then you can ask yourself, okay, are we. Are we in a relationship? Are we going to try to build this thing and make it go and move forward together? Which. The percentages on that just the. The scientifically, the. The percentages of those relationships being successful are very, very, very low.
- [07:29]
Will
Right?
- [07:31]
John Deloney
Because then the old bumper sticker, like, it's true somewhere somebody else is. Is tired of her, too. And you also, Right, like, y'all get. Y'all just living in a fantasy world where you don't have to deal with reality. You just get to have these romantic, oh, my gosh. Conversations. And you get me and passion, and we get to have sex. And there's nothing anchored to it in reality like dishes and bills and, hey, we're trying to build a life together. And I want to do this, but I want to do this. Yeah, y'all. Y'all have to. Y'all are skipping all of that. So until you anchor back into earth, any conversations you'll have are just fantasy. They're just Disney movies. They're not real. Why. Why haven't you sat down and had that conversation with your wife yet?
- [08:16]
Will
So we've been obviously dealing. Like I had previously stated, we had been dealing with our own, obviously, struggles.
- [08:24]
John Deloney
Yeah, but you just. You Took struggle. Every marriage has to. I've had nightmare struggles. You went. You went the next step.
- [08:30]
Will
Right. So haven't sat down and talked with her about it because I guess I'm kind of put it in my mind that if this marriage that I have with my wife were to potentially fail, that I didn't want this reasoning of what's going on.
- [08:56]
John Deloney
Bro, you have failed it. Like, you're the failure. Do you get what I'm saying?
- [09:01]
Will
Right.
- [09:02]
John Deloney
And I'm sure she's got her own challenges. I'm not saying she's perfect, but.
- [09:05]
Will
Right.
- [09:06]
John Deloney
Like, you're actively sleeping with your buddy's wife, and you're like, well, if this thing doesn't work right, it's like you're the one that's not working right in it. You get what I'm saying?
- [09:14]
Will
Right? No, I'm. I'm aware of that part. What I'm saying is that, like, obviously our marriage pre this had obviously its problems. We're trying. We were trying to, you know, work on those things, and I obviously made the mistake initially. And, you know, her and I, we haven't engaged in anything in a while because obviously I'm taking a step back. But it's also one of those that it's at the point where I feel like in order to build with my wife, if that's what her and I choose to do, then I need to obviously be upfront and honest with her about everything that has happened. And if I do that, then, bro.
- [09:58]
John Deloney
Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. You're. And I, like, I'm really close to compassionate for you right now. I'm frustrated with you. I'm angry with you, but I'm also compassionate because I think you have created a delusion that you live in. And you use.
- [10:17]
Will
I wouldn't disagree with that.
- [10:18]
John Deloney
You use these huge circular. Well, you know, and then we might. Listen to me so carefully. You're having sex with another man's wife, and you're getting going home, and you're laying in your bed next to yours. You're having sex with your buddy's wife, and then y'all go have dinner together as a foursome. That is where everything has to start. You can't be sleeping with somebody else's wife and trying to see if your marriage is going to make it. That's madness, Will. Madness. And you can't be hanging out with your buddy while you're banging his wife and be like, well, I'm trying to figure out if our feelings are right or wrong or what are you doing, man? You get what I'm saying?
- [11:17]
Will
No, I get what you're saying. I think so.
- [11:19]
John Deloney
Like today. Today needs to be the day. Today needs to be the day that you tell your wife, we gotta talk. I've been having an eight month affair with our. Our mutual friends, and I've blown our marriage to smithereens. Yes, we had problems. Yes, there were holes in the boat and I detonated it. And you, being a grown man, need to say, I've already got me an apartment. I've already got me a friend's couch to crash on because I know I've blown your world up and I don't want you to have to move to. And maybe she comes back and says, well, I should probably tell you I've been sleeping with somebody else too. Maybe, right? Maybe. Who knows? Is she having an affair, too?
- [11:57]
Will
I would doubt it. Okay, obviously, I don't know, but.
- [12:01]
John Deloney
And then you ask your friend, I'm going to meet you in a diner here in Nashville. We got to talk. Or you tell your. The woman you're having an affair with, hey, you got 24 hours. Because I got to come clean with my buddy. I've become somebody that I never dreamed I would be, and I have to stop.
- [12:21]
Will
I think that's. That's where I've been struggling, because it's like I have gotten far down the road, obviously, and I think in my mind I have this delusion that there is a different path out besides going back.
- [12:37]
John Deloney
There's not a way to land the plane. There is no going back. But your fantasy about how this plane lands is false, too. Both are true. So there's no going back. You blew it up. The boat's gone. You and your wife might choose to go, to swim to shore amid all the rubble and rebuild a new boat. That happens all the time. And I'll walk with you if that's what y'all want to do. You and this other person have a sliver, teeny, tiny sliver of statistical probability that you've blown up your life, she's blown up hers, and y'all choose to build a boat together on whatever shore y'all swim to. Maybe. But you'll always wonder if she's sleeping with somebody else like she did with you and vice versa. Just very shaky ground to build a new thing, but it happens. But there is no. Like. Then you have a hard conversation with your wife, and she's like, well, I don't really want to work on this. And you're like, that's Cool. I already have a four bedroom, three bath house with somebody else and her, your buddy, her husband is like, ah, well, it didn't work out this time. That's just not how this ends, man.
- [13:48]
Will
Right.
- [13:50]
John Deloney
And so the quicker you can re anchor to reality and from a place, from the inside out, because dude, you have, you have created a verbal gymnastics studio that you just swirl around and ride the monkey bars in, but your feet never touch the ground. You've got to be able to look yourself in the mirror and say, dude, I blew my life up. Like, do you feel that? I think honestly, like, I hear no room, I hear no remorse. No, like, yeah, yeah.
- [14:28]
Will
Well, no, I think it's, it's one of those that I'm trying to, you know, obviously I haven't let many people, if anybody, know about this situation, you know, so obviously I've only ever had my opinions weigh on it. And so having, you know, an outside source weigh in on it is obviously beneficial. But it's also making me hear things that I haven't heard. Obviously things that were, are accurate, but I haven't heard because I'm not telling myself those.
- [15:02]
John Deloney
Okay, you need to, after this call.
- [15:06]
Will
Everyone, like, everyone likes to think that obviously there's a good way to land every plane in life. Obviously. So, you know, I think I have been caught up trying to figure out if it's, or if it's possible to land it versus actually realizing that it's not.
- [15:27]
John Deloney
What you're trying to do is to convince yourself that if this is actually love or this is actually viable, these feelings and the excitement of sleeping with somebody that's not your wife, which, dude, I don't, I don't, I don't begrudge you that one bit. You probably feel alive every time you sneak away, every time you almost get caught and you don't. It does. It won't surprise me at all if you felt dead in your own skin for the last five, six, seven years, however long you've been with her. I get that. But you're trying to convince yourself that these feelings are somehow valid in the grand scheme of the cosmos and that it will justify destroying your wife's life and destroying the life of your buddy. And so two things. Love is not a feeling. It's a choice you make every single day. It's a decision. And a marriage is a choice that two people make every single day of their life, man. And so whatever happens with this other person, y'all got to choose that every single day.
- [16:40]
Will
Right.
- [16:41]
John Deloney
Except that choice is Going to be anchored into Styrofoam because, you know, oh, she's capable of blowing this whole thing up at any time, and I am, too. And she'll know that about you. That's why, statistically speaking, it's very unlikely that it continues. But again, it's part of this psychological construct you're trying to build. Like, here, like, your plane is going down, and you're trying to, like, figure out the right way to pull the cushions off of the, the airplane seats so you land comfortably. It's not going to happen. So what I'll tell you is, at the end of this thing, there's a fire. You can do a control burn right now and try, or you can just wait till the whole thing goes up in smoke, but it's going to catch fire. It's already on fire.
- [17:34]
Will
Yeah, I think I've just, I spent too much time dancing around and trying to figuring out how to make the fire as small as possible, when in reality, the focus should be on that the fire is happening regardless.
- [17:48]
John Deloney
And I need you to internalize in your guts. Your house has already burned to the ground. Hers, too. They're gone. They're over. The marriage you had is over. The marriage she had is over. The little plate time y'all have together is over. You all have to decide what we're going to build next. But, bro, you've got to come back and re anchor to ground, man. You've blown your life up. And you've blown her life up. And she's blown her life up. I mean, I, I, I don't know a way that you're going to sleep all night. I don't know a way that you're going to have peace at all until you sit down, have a conversation with your wife, till you let her know you got 24 hours. And I got to come clean with my buddy because I'm not going to be this guy anymore. And there's a high statistical probability that when the smoke clears, you've got nobody. You got no friend, you've got no girlfriend, you've got no wife. That's a high, high probability. And then you'll have to choose to do the next right thing amid that ash. But, man, stop with the verbal gymnastics. Stop with the are these feelings real? But start with, I've cheated on you and I blew our life up. Been doing it for almost a year now, through the holidays, through your birthdays. I, I was seeing somebody else. I was sleeping with our friend. Start there. We'll be right back all right, let's talk about Helix mattresses. Listen, it's February, the coldest and the shortest month of the year. Although it can seem like it's a decade long. In the past, I found myself laying around February more than normal, not doing much, which then makes sleep hard to come by. And then I get in some vicious cycle and where I stay up and I don't sleep and I don't do anything and then it all. Listen, I'll tell you this, this go round. My Helix mattress has helped me sleep more deeply and be more refreshed during the winter doldrums than ever before. Now on most days I'm able to get right up even when it's cold and dark. And then I do all the other stuff that I need to do to be my best. I love Helix mattresses and it's why me and my entire family sleeps on a Helix. We don't all have the same mattresses because we don't all have the same bodies. And Helix has different kinds of mattresses for everybody. No matter how you sleep, if you run hot at night, if you have issues with your spine, if you sleep on your back, your side or stomach or whatever. And Helix offers a hundred night trial and every Helix mattress comes with a 10 or 15 year warranty. So get online and take the Helix Sleep quiz just like I did and it will help you find the perfect mattress for you in under two minutes. And the Helix President's day sale is going on right now. You get 27% off site wide plus two dream pillows, a sheet set and mattress protector for free. With any luxe or elite mattress purchase. This is the best deal you will find anywhere. So go to helix sleep.com deloney today that's helix h l I x helix sleep.com deloney with helix better sleep starts right now. Let's talk about Delete me. My go to provider for online safety, security and peace of mind. Don't skip past this. I've got some stats that will shock you. Look, we all know that we live on the Internet these days. Our work, our personal messages and communications. We buy most of the things that we have on the Internet now. It's where we exist. And it's become normal to give away our email addresses to random companies who then turn them around and sell them to other companies. Listen, whether you like it or not, your personal information is everywhere across the world wide web. And this is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete me. Chances are high that data brokers buy everything about you. And they watch every move you make on the Internet and they're selling it to bad guys. I looked at the reports my friends at Deleteme have sent me. They've reviewed over 35,000 different data brokers who might have my stuff and they've removed my personal information from hundreds of scammy data broker sites. Delete Me has saved me countless hours, days even. And they've sent me detailed reports throughout the year showing me exactly what they've removed and from where. I want you to have this kind of piece too. We can't really avoid the Internet as much as I want to, but we can make our personal data personal again. With Delete Me individual Delete me plans start as low as $9 a month. So go to joinedeleteme.com DeLoney today to get 20% off. That's J-O-I n joindeleteme.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to Greenville, South Carolina and talk to Ashley. Hey Ashley, what's up?
- [23:05]
Ashley
Hi, Dr. John.
- [23:06]
John Deloney
How's it going?
- [23:08]
Ashley
It's going good. I'm a huge fan. I found your show a couple months ago and helped me through some things that I didn't even know I needed help through.
- [23:19]
John Deloney
Well, I appreciate you being with us, man. That means the world to me. Thank you. What's up?
- [23:23]
Ashley
So my question is basically how do I set some boundaries with my in laws and have them respect the grandparent role or is this a me problem and if so, how do I work through it?
- [23:40]
John Deloney
Oh man. I guess my initial question is like, where's your husband in all this?
- [23:50]
Ashley
He is on my side.
- [23:53]
John Deloney
He's a coward. I'll say it for you, he's a complete and total coward.
- [23:58]
Ashley
I think, I think he, he tends to feel like, be a complete and total coward either. I don't think that any of any of their behavior is malicious and I think that he looks at it in a different light than maybe I do. And I don't know if it's just because maybe his parents just feel like they are able to be way, way, way more involved than whereas my parents are involved. But they kind of take a step back and let us do our own thing and only give advice or recommendations.
- [24:32]
John Deloney
So if you could, if you, if you could wave a magic wand, what behaviors would you want your in laws.
- [24:37]
Ashley
To stop doing undermining my parental decisions?
- [24:42]
John Deloney
Give me, give me an example.
- [24:45]
Ashley
For instance, around Christmas time, we were trying to lay our one year old down for a nap. He was very overstimulated with, you know, just the holidays, the people, the gifts, everything. And just trying to give him a little bit of quiet time away because it was, you know, he, it was about nap time. It was time.
- [25:05]
John Deloney
You don't have to justify it. One year olds need naps.
- [25:07]
Ashley
It's perfect for sure. And you know, went to go get him quiet, walked out of the room to go make him a bottle, turned around to go back in, and one of my in laws, you know, went in and picked him up and said, I didn't want to hear him crying. It's Christmas and you know, I'll take care of him. And brought him right back out. And just kind of, you know, undermined us in front of the entire family of, no, we're going to take control and we're going to handle this.
- [25:36]
John Deloney
So did you had you slipped out of the room quietly like you kind of nodded at your husband like, I'm going to go put him down, or did you make an announcement to everybody? Nap time?
- [25:43]
Ashley
I did make an announcement. I said, okay, I think it's time for someone to have a little bit of quiet time.
- [25:51]
John Deloney
Okay.
- [25:55]
Ashley
I mean there have been, there have been countless other situations and, you know, trying to, you know, take control of, well, you know, when he's, when it's time for school, you know, and his time for him to go to school. He's two now, so we've got a couple of years, but requesting that they are the ones to homeschool him. Where in my head, no, he needs to go to school and he needs to be around, you know, other kids. And if I do decide to homeschool him, that will be me doing that.
- [26:25]
John Deloney
But why, why wouldn't you and, or your husband, especially your husband, say, no, y'all are not homeschooling, kid. Thank you for the offer, but now we're going to send him to regular school and just let that be a period at the end of that sentence.
- [26:37]
Ashley
I, in a way did, but I probably didn't do it as effectively. I probably left the door a little bit like, yeah, we'll see.
- [26:46]
John Deloney
I think again, when, when my parents are making statements about what they are quote, unquote, gonna do or not do, it's my job as their kid, I believe, and I've got some colleagues who disagree with me, that's fine. But I need to tell my mom and my dad, hey, we're not doing that with, with, with. With a definitive answer. And if I, if I'm like, if I tell my wife, like, hey, you Tell my mom that that's because I'm a coward if I do that.
- [27:16]
Ashley
Yeah. And see, and I think, like, for instance, there have been several times that, you know, I've shut my parents down and said, this is a boundary, you know, do not cross it.
- [27:25]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [27:25]
John Deloney
Because you're an adult.
- [27:26]
Ashley
I have no problem doing that. But I feel different doing it to his parents.
- [27:31]
John Deloney
You should, because it's his parents. He needs to do it. He's got it. You're married to a coward. Why won't he stand up to his parents? And I know I don't want to.
- [27:40]
Ashley
Talk about the childhood dynamic. Honestly, I think that's what it is.
- [27:43]
John Deloney
Okay, so here's the thing. You somehow have in your soul kind of a people. A people pleaser. Like, you want to make sure everybody else is okay for sure. And at the same time, you've got some pretty clear thing. Pictures of what you want your life to be like and what you want for your kid and what you want for you and for your marriage, etc. I want you to practice writing those things down and saying them out loud, not like it's time for some quiet time. It is. All right, I'm going to go put him down or her down for a nap. Everybody wave goodbye. We will see you all again in an hour and a half. Yeah, because then it's like, well, I'm gonna do some quiet time. That kind of leaves it open to. Well, I mean, I'll. I'll hold them if you're tired of holding them, but, like, I'm gonna go take a nap or. Well, we're gonna be home. We're doing the homeschooling for this one. No, dad, we're sending them to this elementary school. We've already decided that. Well, I don't think that's a good idea. I. I'm great. I appreciate that, but you don't get a vote because it's my kid. So we're gonna send him over there. And that's for your. That's your husband's conversation to have. And. And comically, what I would say is like a nonchalant way. Like, I don't even know. I don't even know if he needs to write. Unless you're. Unless your in laws take it to the next level. No grandkid of mine's going to a school. All right, well, then we're gonna have a serious conversation about whose kid this actually is.
- [29:09]
Ashley
Yeah. And see, so my. My husband is a first responder. Okay, so he.
- [29:15]
John Deloney
Then he's not a coward. Stop me there. Then I'm talking all bad. He's not a coward.
- [29:20]
Ashley
Yeah, no, but he. So he works a lot. Typically, he. He works at two different departments, so he works 48 hours on, 24 hours off. We're blessed enough that, you know, they live close and they take care of watching him on the days that, you know, I'm working and he's not home. So I. And that's been. It's been that way since, you know, basically since he was born, I returned back to work. So they do have a lot of access to him.
- [29:53]
John Deloney
Okay. But also they have something else. They also have something else. This is an important distinction in many ways. You've put them in a parental role several days a week. And if there's not caretaker boundaries. So for instance, if. Let's pretend they were out of the picture and your not coward husband goes to, like, save the. The city he's in. Right. Like he does every day, and you go off to work. If you had hired a teenager to take care of your kid, you would have printed out on a word document. Nap schedule, food schedule, feeding schedule, no screens playing, here's how you text me, et cetera. But when it comes to in laws or aunts or uncles, it's very easy just to drop the kid off for sure. And then they raise that kid like they would raise a kid. And then really quickly, over time, it becomes our kid, and it's. We're all raising one big happy family raising this kid. And so really, the. The thing here is, is you need to be pretty direct. Your husband needs to be pretty direct. Well, y'all need to get aligned, first of all.
- [31:05]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [31:06]
John Deloney
And he might say, actually, I think it'd be awesome if my parents homeschool them. Well, then that's a conversation y'all need to have. Right. And then I think you'll need to come back and circle back and say, here is our caretaker expectations. This is going to be different. We're trying to. We're getting them on a new schedule. And then because again, you guys also want the best of both worlds. You want them to do it exactly as you want to do it, but you want free child care a couple days a week, too, for sure. And so sometimes these boundaries cost you, like, financially, when you're. When your in laws say, well, screw you, then no young kids are going to lecture us on how to raise a baby. Right. And that happens. Yeah, I hope.
- [31:47]
Ashley
Well, and I know we've been looking into possibly doing, like, a preschool Program a couple days a week. You know, morning time from like, 8, 8 to 12 or 8 to 1 or something like that. And I know I. I mentioned it, and there was kind of like this, like, no, like, we love having him, and, you know, but I think it's beneficial for. Especially he hasn't been around other kids, like, in a daycare type setting. Like, I think it's important for his own, you know, emotional development to be around other kids. Then, you know, I think that that kind of got overlooked in the fact of. But wait, no, we want him, like.
- [32:28]
John Deloney
Yeah.
- [32:30]
Ashley
We're losing time with him.
- [32:31]
John Deloney
Yeah. I guess I'll just, like, socially, like, if. If a young child is surrounded by sturdy, regulated, caring adults, their socialization is gonna be fine.
- [32:46]
Ashley
Yeah, Right.
- [32:47]
John Deloney
They're gonna be fine. That's often a. A proxy for, I don't want to deal with this situation. So I want. I just want to run other kids. Because if you want to run other kids, you can set up playdates, you can have kids over all the time. You can have kids over on Saturdays. I mean, you can make that happen.
- [33:05]
Ashley
Mm.
- [33:07]
John Deloney
I think that you're trying to avoid the harder conversations.
- [33:11]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [33:13]
John Deloney
And I guess for me, that's a skill I want you to have because you walk around on eggshells in your own house.
- [33:23]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [33:24]
John Deloney
And I just think you deserve more than that. And your husband sounds like he's, like. He's a gangster, man. He shows up for the least of these in our communities day in and day out. I don't want him walking around eggshells in his own house either.
- [33:38]
Ashley
Yeah. And I think. I think he feels a lot of, you know, I think it goes back to his childhood, not really being able to properly voice how he feels.
- [33:49]
John Deloney
That's fair. That's fair.
- [33:51]
Ashley
Him and I have worked through that, you know, within our relationship, and we've gotten to a good place with it. But I know there's still that. That wall up when it comes to how to talk to his own parents.
- [34:03]
John Deloney
I get that.
- [34:05]
Ashley
And it was difficult conversations.
- [34:07]
John Deloney
I could.
- [34:08]
Ashley
I mean. Yeah.
- [34:09]
John Deloney
So I think often the conversation about protect and provide. He's an amazing protector, an amazing provider, and I think you need to have the conversation the next level that says, hey, right now, providing for us is less economic. It is family boundaries. Protection for us right now is less about, can you fight and can you handle a gun and can you put out a fire? Protection is more. I want what we want for our kid voiced to everybody, whether it's a teacher, whether it's a caretaker. Whether it's our in laws, I want that. I want that universal. That's what protection looks like right now, protecting our son's heart and mind. And when you frame it that way, often it sinks in a little bit differently.
- [34:59]
Ashley
Mm.
- [35:01]
John Deloney
You get what I'm saying?
- [35:03]
Ashley
Yeah, for sure.
- [35:04]
John Deloney
Because here's. I think, I think at the end of the day, I think your frustration is with him, not with your in laws.
- [35:10]
Ashley
That's fair. That's. That's. That's very fair.
- [35:14]
John Deloney
And if your frustrations with him, I think he has a right to know that you're this frustrated with him.
- [35:19]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [35:20]
John Deloney
Is that fair?
- [35:21]
Ashley
Absolutely.
- [35:22]
John Deloney
Okay. And can I tell you something else? Y'all aren't crazy. You're not crazy. He's not crazy. This isn't like a unique thing. It happens to everybody.
- [35:32]
Ashley
Good to know.
- [35:33]
John Deloney
It just sucks. Like, you're not broken, your family's not falling apart. Nothing like that. This is just the worst.
- [35:38]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [35:39]
John Deloney
And here's what makes it even extra worse is probably your in laws are pretty great.
- [35:43]
Ashley
Oh, they. They 100% are.
- [35:45]
John Deloney
They're just doing it the best they can with what they got because they don't have that printed off piece of paper in front of them.
- [35:49]
Ashley
Absolutely, Absolutely. Yeah. I, I, like I said, I know that they're, you know, anything that they do, it's not malicious at all. We're so grateful, and I'm so grateful for everything with them, you know, But I'm just trying to figure out that healthy, healthy boundary. And I think. I think you got got it spot on.
- [36:11]
John Deloney
Well, and the healthy boundary, I think, for you is. I think you needed to find that for yourself. And here's what's annoying. It won't feel a certain way. You get what I'm saying? Like, you think there's going to come a moment when it feels so good or feels so peace. It's just. That feeling is just going to morph and move because your kid's going to turn four, and you're going to want to put them down for a nap and then be like, they don't need a nap. He's four. Let's go out with. And then it's. Or your husband's gonna have a picture of what it looks like on Saturday, and you're gonna have a different picture of what it looks like. So, like, it's just a common thing. Happens all the time. Y'all aren't broken. But I think it's being honest about. Hey, husband, we've worked so hard on Us talking to each other, this is the next layer.
- [36:54]
Ashley
Absolutely.
- [36:56]
John Deloney
And I feel like it's your responsibility to help lead the charge with your parents and vice versa. And so y'all get it out on the table. Because he might say, I love the idea of my parents being the, you know, my, my, my parents homeschooling. I love it. I love that idea. And you might be like, no way, Jose. That's the conversation to have. Then the boundary part just becomes y'all just saying we're going to bite the bullet and we're going to say our boundaries out loud and we're going to hope that everybody respects them and we're going to deal with it when they don't. But thank you so much for the call. Your not broken, you're not failing. Your marriage is probably amazing. Like things are good. This is just a common thing that comes up in a high majority of first time parents, second time parents, whatever. And it's just deciding what do we want for our kid and how do we develop the courage to communicate that to everybody. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Okay, let's talk about organifi. Listen up. Health and wellness is not a destination. It's a journey. And for most people, that journey can be tough, filled with ups and downs. And that's why I love organifi. They make it super easy to make healthier choices about what you eat and drink. And right now, they're making it even easier with the organifi starter kit. For those of you still on the fence, it's a great way to sample organifi for not much money. With Code Deloney, they'll give all of this to you for 40 bucks right now, including shipping. Here's what they're going to send you. Organifi's greatest hits. Seven days of green juice travel packs to boost your energy and calm your mind. Seven days of red juice travel packs full of antioxidants to help with focus, stamina and recovery. And 30 days of essential magnesium capsules for strong bones and healthy muscles. If you get in on this starter pack right now, they'll also send you a branded organifi shaker bottle. Because why not make organifi's whole food blends and top quality ingredients part of your health and wellness journey? Just like I have. Go to Organifi.com DeLoney right now to save 20 off all of their products with code DeLoney. That's O R G-A-N I F I.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 20 off. All right, we're back. Let's go out to San Diego, California and talk to Crystal. Hey Crystal, what's up?
- [39:14]
Crystal
Hello. How are you?
- [39:16]
John Deloney
Remarkable. How are you?
- [39:18]
Crystal
I'm doing fantastic. Definitely can't complain. Okay, John, so here's my question for you. I'm a 27 year old female and my partner is 30 and I am obviously having conversations with him moving forward in marriage, having children. But the biggest thing I have going on for myself right now is how do I make my partner feel respected and fulfilled in our relationship?
- [39:46]
John Deloney
Oh man, there's. There's a lot of tentacles to that question. Be more specific. So something happened. Something happened for you to call? Why would you call?
- [39:55]
Crystal
Yes. So we are in a time where everything in our day to day will be good and we have a conversation that will come up or some sort of disagreement slash argument and it really just like esque, like really escalates to 0 to 100 and it just leaves me kind of feeling in turmoil. And in those conversations, my partner, I just feel like he keeps referencing that he doesn't feel heard, he doesn't feel respected in the way that I communicate. And so I think just because I keep hearing those words of not being heard, not feeling respected, I don't really know where to turn and you know, what to work on, you know, because those conversations are always coming up in a time of a flare up, quote.
- [40:44]
John Deloney
Unquote, to say, do you respect him?
- [40:49]
Crystal
I do everything he does from work to how he treats people. I mean, I feel that I rave about him.
- [40:56]
John Deloney
Those are external.
- [40:57]
Crystal
Those are external things.
- [40:58]
John Deloney
Those are external things. Those are certificates on the wall. Do you respect the man he is?
- [41:05]
Crystal
I do.
- [41:06]
John Deloney
Does he make you feel safe when he walks into a room?
- [41:09]
Crystal
Yes.
- [41:09]
John Deloney
When he sees you, do you feel loved?
- [41:12]
Crystal
Yes.
- [41:13]
John Deloney
Okay, so when you say, how can I best love you? What does he say? What are some actions that he has put on the table before? When he said I don't feel heard or respected, and then he says, this is how I would feel heard, this is how I would feel respected. What are some of the things he's put on the table?
- [41:36]
Crystal
To be upfront and to just speak very black and white and if I want something to just blatantly say it. And that's just how his brain works. And I feel that I maybe try to protect myself, to protect him. And so I try to say it in a dancing, neutral party type of way.
- [42:00]
John Deloney
Right.
- [42:00]
Crystal
And we just, you know, dance around in conversation all the time.
- [42:05]
John Deloney
So what? Why don't you feel safe enough? Going back to my original question, you said, when he walks in a room, your body feels safe. Why can't you just say what you need or what you want?
- [42:18]
Crystal
I'm a little nervous that he'll be upset with me, even though my brain knows that he won't be. There is just something that. It's just I have such a hard time just letting it out.
- [42:31]
John Deloney
Do you have an example of a time you've told him just directly in the truth and in a loving, compassionate way, and he has exploded on you or run from you?
- [42:40]
Crystal
No, I mean, that's. I. That's I. It's this internal. And I've noticed that ever since he's pointed that out, that I do that in a lot of areas in my life.
- [42:51]
John Deloney
I was going to ask, like, where else do you hide from him?
- [42:58]
Crystal
What do you mean by. By hide from him?
- [43:01]
John Deloney
You know, like, what are things going on in your mind that he doesn't know about?
- [43:11]
Crystal
I would just say there's just some anxiety there.
- [43:15]
John Deloney
I know. That's what I'm asking. What is. Or let me. Let me ask it another way. Why is your body, through feelings, through anxiousness, through holding, biting your tongue, through talking in circles, Those are all ways your body's trying to keep you safe. Why is your body decided that you being seen and heard is not safe?
- [43:46]
Crystal
That's a good question.
- [43:49]
John Deloney
Because here's what I think's happening. I think he is probably pretty direct. Probably like, hey, just tell me what you need so I can love you. And you make these big laps around the building, and he's like, what? And then it feels frustrating, and then it feels deceptive. And then he goes to bed every night feeling like he doesn't really know you, and you feel that gap, but every time you try to bridge that gap, your body electrocutes you. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Don't get that close. Right.
- [44:23]
Crystal
Yeah, I think you definitely hit the nail on the head for sure.
- [44:27]
John Deloney
So let me ask. So let me ask you why.
- [44:32]
Crystal
I think over time maybe that when we've been pushed into those conversations and moments of 0 to 100, that it's either like, do I need to, you know, leave and do we need to take a break? So I feel that over time, because those conversations have alluded to that.
- [44:51]
John Deloney
From him or from you?
- [44:54]
Crystal
From both. I would say majority myself. And I feel that I put myself in this place.
- [45:00]
John Deloney
So when you get in one of those situations, we are going 0 to 100. You explode on him? Or do you build a quick concrete fortress and hide?
- [45:08]
Crystal
Fortress and hide. I'm a. I shut down in conversations.
- [45:12]
John Deloney
Okay. And so at some point, does he find himself inadvertently banging on the door to try to get in?
- [45:24]
Crystal
I definitely wouldn't say to that degree. Like, even in this conversations, we both try to have respect for one another and to never raise your voice and things like that.
- [45:34]
John Deloney
That's not respect. That's not respect. Y'all try to be polite, okay. And y'all try to be polite so that if something goes wrong, both of y'all can say, I didn't do. Fill in the blank. I didn't yell. I didn't hit anybody. I didn't punch a hole through the concrete. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. And so it's two teams playing football, and both of you are sitting your defense out, and nobody will hike the ball.
- [45:59]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [46:00]
John Deloney
And then one at. One of you just gets so mad, like, let's play ball. And then there's like, well, you know, and then, like, I want to hike it. And then. And then it's like, I just. I want to go. I want to go be with somebody that will play offense.
- [46:14]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [46:15]
John Deloney
And I want to go be able to play offense sometimes. So. Circling all the way back. Take him off the table. I want to talk to you. Who told you the safest thing for you to do is just to be quiet?
- [46:29]
Crystal
I always grew. I grew up that way, and it was a very. Unless you're spoken to, you know, you don't really say what you need to say. So. Yeah, I think I've just. I've always grown up with. Especially, you know, from my father. That was his big. You know. Unless you're spoken to, your opinion doesn't really matter.
- [46:54]
John Deloney
So have you heard. Have you heard me say on the show the things that kept you safe as a kid will destroy your adult relationships?
- [47:02]
Crystal
Yeah, that's definitely where I'm at right now.
- [47:04]
John Deloney
Okay, so here's. It's really a binary choice. You continue running on the same roads that were built out of. Out of safety and necessity as a kid, and you can run on those roads, and you will not die. You'll stay alive, and you'll be alone, and you might be alone sharing a bed with somebody that says, I do and that I love you, but that gap will always exist. Or you have to choose to do something that feels initially unsafe and unnatural with somebody that you know to be safe.
- [47:46]
Crystal
Okay.
- [47:47]
John Deloney
And that means you have to go into a Season of practicing discomfort. Okay, does that make sense? Because. Because here's. Here's what I. Man, the walls you built will affect your finances. It will affect you professionally. It will affect your sex life. It will keep every. You'll never be able to fully let go.
- [48:17]
Crystal
Yeah, that's. It's funny you say that too, because that's something that I hear, you know, from him of like, you know, I feel that you've built up this brick wall and, you know, how are you supposed to let me in? And like you said, even in the bedroom, so many different areas that he's. This person is showing up and this person is every day like, I. Let me be there for you. Let me be there for you, and I just cannot. Let me rephrase that because I can. I need to let those walls down because you are right. And it is impacting my life in so many other ways.
- [48:52]
John Deloney
I need you to not let those walls down. I want you to try courageously to him, because letting the walls down is still a passive stance. It mimics bravery. I guess that's not fair. It. It is. It is initially brave, that first step, but I just want you to think of it like, you come home and you see this man. Do you love this guy?
- [49:17]
Crystal
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Like.
- [49:19]
John Deloney
And to see a good guy. Oh, not. Moment we met, that's like Dawson's Creek. But like, you've grown to love this person, right?
- [49:28]
Crystal
Yes.
- [49:28]
John Deloney
Okay. And he does the things. He shows up always. Okay. So you've got this person that you see that you love that you've probably thought about making plans with down the road. Right. And you'd be crazy if you haven't had that imaginary picture pop into your head of a fireplace and a Thanksgiving table and your four boys home from Christmas and their girlfriends that you hate, but kind of love, right?
- [49:54]
Crystal
Yes.
- [49:55]
John Deloney
And if you have a picture of an older, wrinklier, grayer version of this guy at the end of that tape, right? So you have been there and you come home and he sees you and everything in his world lights up, but there's a sheet of in plexiglass in between you, and he just can't touch you.
- [50:17]
Crystal
Yeah, exactly.
- [50:21]
John Deloney
And the same with your customers. The same. I don't know what you do for a living, but the same with your bosses.
- [50:26]
Crystal
Yeah, it's. It's very true. And I work with. You know, I'm my boss's right hand gal, and that is a topic that we have talked about of. You know, I feel like we work together 24 7. But I don't really let you know.
- [50:39]
John Deloney
He has no idea who you are.
- [50:40]
Crystal
Victoria is.
- [50:41]
John Deloney
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
- [50:44]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [50:45]
John Deloney
And. And if we were in a different call, I would ask you about your sex life, and I could almost guarantee it. I could pinpoint where you struggle.
- [50:52]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [50:54]
Will
Fair.
- [50:54]
Crystal
For sure.
- [50:55]
John Deloney
Okay.
- [50:55]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [50:57]
John Deloney
Here's the thing. You have to make a choice that I'm going to be seen and I'm going to be known, but it's not something you can lob on him. That's a decision you have to make. And you're gonna have to practice a thing that I like, where you put your hand on your chest or put your fist in your chest, and you have to look in the mirror 10 times a day for 30 days. You want a homework assignment? Will you actually do it?
- [51:26]
Crystal
100% yes.
- [51:28]
John Deloney
For 30 days from today, I want you to go look in the mirror and put your fist in your chest and look yourself dead in the eyes and say, I love this girl. And I want you to pause, I want you to drop your shoulders, and I want you to say it again. I love this girl.
- [51:49]
Crystal
I can do that.
- [51:50]
John Deloney
I don't want you to say it. Hold on. I'm not done. I want you to say it 10 times, and then I want you to say, she deserves to be heard. And then you got to go get weird, and you're gonna have to tell. I'm gonna. Here's what I'm gonna send you. I'm gonna send you, and it's gonna sound pedantic. It's gonna sound silly. Okay. What I'm gonna send you, but I'm gonna mail you all of the questions for humans cards for free for couples and the intimacy. Oh, my gosh. But here's what I want you to do. They're. They're not complicated, but you have to commit to telling the truth. And so, like, the intimacy deck, when it says, what's one thing you really used to be into in the bedroom and you're not anymore, you have to actually answer that. What's our favorite memory of us kissing before? What's your least favorite memory of us? Because, like, you got to be honest.
- [52:45]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [52:48]
John Deloney
And you need to have a series where you meet once a week with him, and you say, all right, here's three things that scared me this week, and here's three things that I thought were incredible about this week. Week.
- [52:57]
Crystal
Okay.
- [52:58]
John Deloney
You've got to practice being seen and known. And then y'all just need to come up with some sort of signal like, I'm flooded, I'm too much, I'm gna back up. And he's going to say, okay, cool. Cuz you're just. All you're doing is practicing. You're practicing a thing that got you electrocuted as a kid by the one man who you should have been able to anchor into for your entire life. Your dad. And he weaponized your feelings, your emotions. He weaponized your personhood and said, your personhood is mine. And when I want to see it, I'll let you know.
- [53:30]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [53:31]
John Deloney
Instead of celebrating the crazy, bananas, wild little San Diego girl you were growing up.
- [53:38]
Crystal
Yeah. I could not agree more. And I think, you know, again, that we are in this period of our relationship of. And you know, he wants to so badly propose and he's talked about it and he just needs the utmost confidence in myself, and I feel that I do as well. And because we've both gone through families of divorce and all of these things, and so if we can have those hard conversations and put in the work now to give our future children a childhood and all of those healthy kind of relationships, like 100%. This has just been so helpful. And if this can get me there. I don't know. This is the best phone call ever.
- [54:21]
John Deloney
Well, it's kind of like I just handed you a workout plan. So for the next year, you need to go live weights.
- [54:28]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [54:28]
John Deloney
Like, the work is yours. Are you willing to, for the first time in your life. How old are you?
- [54:33]
Crystal
27.
- [54:34]
John Deloney
Okay. Are you, for the first time in a quarter century, are you willing to practice being seen and heard? Because here's the other side of being seen at heard. He might look at you and say, I don't want to propose. And that will not make what you did wrong. That won't make you wrong. That will mean you've been giving a pretty remarkable theater performance to be his girlfriend.
- [55:04]
Crystal
Yeah.
- [55:04]
John Deloney
And hopefully my fingers crossed because I'm a romantic. Just kind of an oogie googie romantic. I hope that he sees you and gets to know you. Like, I don't like that. Or I love that. And by the way, I've been married for, gosh, 22 and a half years now. I found out my wife said something the other day and I looked at her and I started laughing. I was like, I don't know you. You what? Like, I had no idea. But can I tell you, that's my freaking favorite part. I found out something the other night about one of her old boyfriends. And her I did not know. I didn't know. But here's the thing. It made me die laughing. Started dying laughing. Because here's why. She's not going anywhere. And I'm not either. You get what I'm saying? 100 and so it. It. When you grow up in homes of divorce. I just saw this recently. I love it when you grow up in a home of divorce. You realize, oh, they could. Somebody could leave. That's a thing. You can just leave. And so what you do is you try really hard not to let the other person leave. And that almost guarantees at some point they don't know you. And leaving still on the table. The other side of that interesting perspective. The other side of it is I'm going to be fully seen and known and we're going to become braided together like a. Like one of those ocean ropes that nobody can pull apart. Right? It's awesome. So let's call this what it is. It's day one. Some of this may be hard. So it may be that y'all start a journal together that you put on his pillow at night that he writes in, then he puts it on your pillow the next morning or whatever. And some of these things are easier done via letter. Some of these things are hard just to sit down and just say it in front of somebody. Like, here's what I think about this. And I don't like this. And I want to get to know you here. But some of it is we're just going to stop going to fancy restaurants and pretending like everything's okay. We're going to go to crummy restaurants and just chit chat. And you can chit chat nice restaurants. But it's just a vibe. I get to know you. Here's one thing that I asked my wife to do last year. Make me a syllabus of you. What are the 10 podcasts you listen to? I don't know what you listen to anymore. What are ten bands you like? I know what you used to like. I don't know what you even listen to anymore. What are 10 books you want me to read that you read? Not that you want me to. That you read that you love. Because I want to get to know you. I might read those books. Some of those books I've got into did not like them. A couple of them I've loved. Podcast. One podcast I I was listening to and I was like, I know her. Like, you want to meet her? Like, I, I was a friend of mine, she didn't even know we were connected. So all I have to say is let's get to know each other. Here's books I like, here's movies I like. Here's music I love. I'd love to learn to dance. I'd love to learn to sing. I'd love to just learn to let go. And this happens inside your chest. I'm proud of you, Crystal. Day one. You love that girl. She's worth being hurt. We'll be right back. Let's talk about TrainWell, an amazing personal trainer and app all in one. I know it's cold and dreary outside, but our bodies still have to move. If we want to be healthy, we have to exercise. So if you're finally ready to start an exercise program or if you've been a lifelong lifter and exerciser like me and you're just ready to shake things up, you've got to check out Trainwell. I use it, my wife uses it, My co workers and their spouses are using it. Trainwell is amazing. Trainwell offers tailored workouts with step by step guidance from real people. Meaning it's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer. It's the best of both. I get personalized workouts on the app and I communicate with my trainer on a daily basis. And the results have been extraordinary. To get started, you just answer a few questions about your fitness journey. You hop on a chat with an expert trainer to discuss your goals and make a personalized plan. And then it's time for you to get to work. As you complete workouts, your trainer will keep tweaking them to help you get better. Trainwell takes away our excuses and makes it easy. So if you're ready to start taking control of your health and start exercising, take the quiz to find your Perfect trainer@trainwell.net Deloney today they've extended their special offer for my audience just 69amonth. When you lock in your plan this February, that's almost 50 off their regular monthly rate plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.net DeLoney that's T R A I N W e l l trainwell.net DeLoney all right, we're back. Something cool happened. What is it, Kelly?
- [59:45]
Myrta
All right, this is from. I'm hoping I'm pronouncing her name correctly. Myrta Mirta.
- [59:51]
John Deloney
Yes.
- [59:51]
Myrta
All right. She says we are a family of five with three teens. Dinnertime has always been a priority in our family. Ever since the kids were little, I always made dinner together happen. Now that the kids are older. With jobs and high school and activities, it's nearly impossible to have everyone together at home at one time. I've had to grieve that a little bit. It was hard to let go of it. However, I decided to replace dinnertime with questions for humans, parents and teen cards. I gather the family around 9 o'clock as many times, as weak as I can, and we do a few carts. When I first brought up the idea, the teens rolled their eyes and rolled their eyes at me and gave me the bruh. Why I'm assuming she has sons because I've heard that my husband was skeptical. Let me tell you, it has been amazing. Better than I expected. It's not about the questions on the card. It's the fact that each person has a space to talk, a chance to express idea, an idea or dream. There are no wrong answers except a shrug or an I don't know. I've learned new things about my family. It has started conversations that otherwise would never have happened. It has brought about admittance. Admittance to failures or dreams. We just finished the deck a few nights ago and my husband has already asked if there's a second edition.
- [61:04]
John Deloney
Oh yeah, dude, that's awesome. So hey, here's I love we grieved it. The thing that was is no more just because of time and circumstance. But I'm not going to give up on it. I'm going to create a new thing and it's gonna look different. And it's amazing.
- [61:20]
Ashley
Yeah.
- [61:20]
Myrta
Cause sometimes when you stick so legal. Well, you're so legalistic about this thing that we do and you grasp onto it so tight you lose it anyway because you're forcing it to happen. And yet if you want your kids to have jobs like, you know, my son works two nights a week, they're gonna be gone and they have lives. This is what's supposed to be happening. They're supposed to be that kind of peeling away a bit. But she just found a different way to make it work.
- [61:44]
John Deloney
And, and I think it's important to push through teenagers. I don't want to or I don't feel like it. Those are just soft, squishy boundaries that they want to see. Do you like when you punch right through that?
- [61:55]
Myrta
Right. And then like in this case, they end up loving it?
- [61:58]
John Deloney
Of course.
- [61:59]
Myrta
It's very important.
- [61:59]
John Deloney
And it feels good in their nervous system. Right. And all kids love hearing. I told my son some, like I, I will go back to one of the greatest things I've ever did was driving from Nashville to Texas just because I flying now is kind of chaotic for me and I lost my pre check because I'm an idiot and so like the thought of of doing that during Christmas. So my son and I just drove to Texas 12 hours one way. Drove all across the state visiting family and friends. Then we drove 12 hours back. He learned some stu I I. He asked me questions about childhood and stories and I told him stories that he could not believe. But we got to know each other and vice versa. I got to hear his thoughts but it was just amazing. Never would have got there, never got there. So good call. Way to go. God, I don't know. That just cheers me up those little questions for humans cards man. All over the country people are changing their lives. Dread. Thanks for being with us. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye.