I’m Married, But I’m Attracted to Someone Else

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show Episode Title: I’m Married, But I’m Attracted to Someone Else
Release Date: December 2, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, hosted by Ramsey Network, Dr. John DeLoney addresses complex relationship dynamics and mental health challenges through real-life caller interactions. The episode primarily focuses on marital fidelity, dealing with attraction outside marriage, and effective parenting strategies, providing insightful advice to listeners navigating similar issues.

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Main Caller: Jane – Navigating Attraction Outside Marriage

Timestamp: 00:17 – 22:28

Jane's Dilemma: Jane reaches out seeking guidance on maintaining faithfulness to her husband while feeling attracted to another man. She describes the other man as different yet seemingly great, sparking a fantasy life that makes her feel more alive compared to her current marriage.

Key Discussions and Insights:

1. Acknowledging Natural Attractions:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (02:03): Emphasizes that finding others attractive is natural and not indicative of marital failure. “...beautiful people in the world, there's going to be handsome people in the world, and women. That's a part of life.”
   • Jane (03:08): “I don’t feel boring like plain Jane.”

2. Ownership and Responsibility:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (03:24): Encourages Jane to take ownership of her current relationship instead of seeking excitement elsewhere. “The only person that can change is you.”

3. Consequences of Infidelity:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (09:20): Highlights the irreversible damage an affair can cause. “...the real thing is you want to blow your life up.”

4. Rebuilding Intimacy Within Marriage:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (14:46): Suggests actionable steps like communicating openly with her husband about her desires for intimacy and connection.
   • Jane (12:07): “That's what we're doing. And this time next year, this time next year...”

5. Practical Solutions:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (21:14): Reiterates the power of choice in improving her marriage. “You choose what happens next.”
   • Advice on Specific Actions: Encourage setting aside quality time, such as weekly breakfasts using intimacy decks, to reconnect emotionally and physically.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney (03:16): “You just nailed it, sister.”
• Dr. John DeLoney (05:00): “...there's this idea that if you get married and you love somebody and your marriage is great, you will never find somebody else attractive. That's insane.”

Conclusion: Dr. DeLoney empowers Jane to focus on revitalizing her marriage through intentional communication and action, rather than succumbing to external attractions. By taking deliberate steps to reconnect with her husband, Jane is encouraged to rebuild the intimacy and excitement within her existing relationship.

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Caller: Bailey – Balancing Holiday Plans in a New Relationship

Timestamp: 27:17 – 44:43

Bailey's Concern: Bailey seeks advice on whether it’s unreasonable to request spending the holidays with her family while feeling her boyfriend prioritizes his preferences, leaving her feeling gaslighted and undervalued.

Key Discussions and Insights:

1. Understanding Relationship Values:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (31:28): Differentiates between gaslighting and unspoken expectations, emphasizing the importance of clear communication. “Unspoken expectations are premeditated resentment.”

2. Alignment of Long-Term Goals:

   • Bailey (32:46): Shares her desire for marriage and family juxtaposed with her boyfriend’s reluctance to involve government in their relationship, revealing fundamental value clashes.

3. Importance of Specific Communication:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (21:14): Advocates for detailed conversations about each partner’s expectations and desires to avoid misunderstandings. “What does your picture look like?”

4. Identifying Red Flags:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (43:04): Advises recognizing behaviors that indicate disrespect or lack of support, such as belittling or dismissive responses during crucial conversations.

5. Encouraging Vulnerable Conversations:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (43:04): Encourages Bailey to initiate honest dialogues about her needs and to assess her boyfriend’s response to determine the relationship’s viability.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney (35:50): “It sounds like you cast him in a movie he didn’t even know he was in.”
• Dr. John DeLoney (38:13): “You want that call more than anything in the world. It's not going to come.”

Conclusion: Bailey is guided to have explicit and honest discussions with her boyfriend about their holiday plans and long-term relationship goals. Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the necessity of aligning values and ensuring both partners feel heard and respected to foster a healthy, enduring relationship.

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Caller: Kelly – Effective Discipline Strategies for a Moody Teenager

Timestamp: 50:57 – 70:54

Kelly's Challenge: Kelly, a mother of five, seeks advice on disciplining her 13-year-old son without making him feel his life is over, particularly concerning screen time restrictions.

Key Discussions and Insights:

1. Understanding Adolescent Behavior:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (51:56): Validates that teenage moodiness is typical and emphasizes that children emulate adult behaviors. “They’re just kids. So a couple of guiding principles I always go with...”

2. Setting Non-Negotiable Boundaries:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (56:43): Advises establishing clear, non-negotiable rules regarding screen time to prevent manipulative behaviors. “There are some non negotiables.”

3. Promoting Emotional Regulation:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (58:44): Highlights the importance of parents maintaining emotional control to avoid teaching children to manipulate emotions. “He can't have access to your emotions or he will use them to his gain.”

4. Enhancing Parent-Child Communication:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (62:49): Suggests engaging in specific, meaningful activities together to strengthen the parent-child bond. “Is there once a week your husband can take your 13-year-old out for breakfast.”

5. Implementing Consistent Consequences:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (57:27): Recommends linking choices to consequences clearly, ensuring the child understands the impact of their actions. “If you choose disrespect, you're choosing to not be in this room.”

6. Modeling Desired Behavior:

   • Dr. John DeLoney (63:44): Encourages parents to demonstrate the behaviors they wish to see in their children, fostering a respectful and loving environment.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney (53:18): “It's the adults in their lives that have changed.”
• Dr. John DeLoney (57:26): “The biggest gift we can give you guys.”

Conclusion: Kelly is guided to establish firm boundaries around screen time while fostering open communication and emotional connections with her son. Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of consistent discipline, emotional regulation, and modeling positive behavior to effectively manage her teenager’s moodiness and promote a healthy parent-child relationship.

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Closing Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Dr. John DeLoney underscores the importance of honest communication, personal responsibility, and intentional actions in maintaining and improving relationships. Whether dealing with marital temptations or parenting challenges, the advice centers on fostering transparency, setting clear boundaries, and actively working to strengthen emotional connections.

Final Notable Quote:

• Dr. John DeLoney (21:14): “You choose what happens next.”

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Useful Resources Mentioned:

• Questions for Humans Conversation Cards: Available for purchase at Ramsey Solutions’ store.
• Helix Sleep: Mattress sales and discounts available for listeners.
• Cozy Earth: Bedding products with exclusive discounts.
• BetterHelp: Online therapy services offering discounts for listeners.
• Hallow App: Prayer and meditation app with special offers.

Listeners are encouraged to utilize these resources to further support their journey towards healthier relationships and improved mental well-being.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yo, yo, yo. Cyber Monday deals are here. And fan favorite questions for humans conversation cards are on sale for just 12 bucks. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com store and grab yours right now.

[Jane]

I am trying to stay faithful to my husband.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Whoa. Okay. It's just. All right, well, we'll go there.

[Jane]

I'm attracted to another man. He is very different from my husband, and my husband is great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And.

[Jane]

And this guy seems great. Their jobs are very different.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yo, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Why are we yelling? There's no reason to yell. There's no reason to yell. I am just having a regular old great day, and it's not even a yelly kind of day. I hope you are doing well, wherever this show finds you. What's the date here? It's at. It's early December. So you've survived Thanksgiving. I'm assuming we have a president now. May the force be with us. I'm assuming we have a president right now and we are heading into the Christmas holidays. I wish you all peace in a season of chaos. I wish you all. I'm glad you're here. We're talking about relationships, talking about emotional and psychological health. We're talking about everything. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz. 1-844-693-3291 or go to john deloney.com ask a s k. Let's roll out to the Utes, Salt Lake City City. And talk to not so plain Jane. What's up, Jane?

[Jane]

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. How are you? Love you doing all right?

[Jane]

Hey. Doing okay? Just. I need your advice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I gotcha. All right. What you got?

[Jane]

Okay. I am trying to stay faithful to my husband.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Whoa.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's just. All right. And we'll go there.

[Jane]

I'm attracted to another man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Tell me about it.

[Jane]

Which part?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, those. Those are. Those are often mutually exclusive, and you're. You're. You're combining them. So tell me about this person you're attracted to.

[Jane]

Okay. So he. I haven't crossed the line for, like, physical contact. However, I'm doing everything I can to not make, like, an excuse to bump into him, you know, have alone time with him. Okay, so he is very different from my husband. And my husband is great. And this guy seems great, so maybe they're not that different. But physically, they're very different. Their jobs are very different. And I am attracted to the sky.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is it about this other guy that makes you feel a little more alive than you do in your own house.

[Jane]

I don't feel boring like plain Jane.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Jane]

It's just almost like a fantasy life in my head of what would it be like to have a life with him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it.

[Jane]

Versus the life I've created.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You just nailed it, sister. You nailed it.

[Jane]

Yeah. So you still need your advice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. But you, you just took full ownership in a way. And usually, like, I don't know if you've done some work or if you've just been stressing on this dressing. The hardest part in this kind of situation, when somebody's standing at the precipice of making a life altering decision that's going to blow their life up.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is taking ownership of the life you have co created with somebody else.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because that's the thing that you can change today. You can walk by this guy's desk or his office and drop a hotel key card.

[Jane]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can do that. And if he chooses to, you know, let's go all the way through it. Would he meet you there?

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You can do that.

[Jane]

And I have talked to my husband about this also.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on, we're not there yet. You're trying to get out of the situation. Stay in it with me.

[Jane]

I am.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can do that in every part of your life. Work, home. Do you have kids?

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Kids. Every part of your life explodes.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And yet this guy makes your heart beat a little faster. He laughs at your jokes. You like the way he moves.

[Jane]

He's very cute.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's a handsome guy. He's a good looking guy.

[Jane]

He's handsome. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so here's the thing. We were just all talking about this earlier. There's this idea that if you get married and you love somebody and your marriage is great, you will never find somebody else attractive. That's insane. It's nonsense. You're always.

[Jane]

I think I was hoping for that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Yeah. There's just a thing. It's a fantasy. There's going to be beautiful people in the world, there's going to be handsome people in the world and women. That's a part of life. And so if somebody beautiful comes into a room, the whole room will get lit up. And you trying to pretend it's not is dishonest. It's insane. And an incredibly handsome, powerful, strong or small and shrewd or brilliant or brave, whatever you adjective, you're going to see in somebody, they're going to come into a room or be a partner of yours on a work project or Whatever. And that's gonna happen, and you're gonna think to yourself, this person is attractive, either intellectually or physically or both. They're hilarious. All of that is normal. You're not crazy.

[Jane]

Thank you for saying that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the next moment when you begin to meditate and imagine a different world. And that's the choice you have.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I. For some reason, you're not able to let that energy flow through you. It's getting caught. And that usually means, like, so one of the things that surprised me years ago when I first read this was that most affairs. Not most, but many affairs happen in what would be characterized as good marriages.

[Jane]

Right, Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because it's not about we're not having. Our sex life isn't fine. It's not about our finances aren't fine. It's not about we're good co parents. It's about somebody else makes me feel. Feel alive.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or more likely, I am choosing to feel alive in the fantasy that is this other person instead of the harder work, which is choosing how I can be alive in my own skin, in my own house with my partner that I said, till death do us part with.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so for me, I think this is a pretty magical opportunity for you. An alarm bell should be ringing at every stage.

[Jane]

It is. That's why I'm calling and being vulnerable.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. And I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for it because. Because you are millions and millions of people right this very second listening to this show. So I'm grateful for it. When you told your husband, what did you tell him?

[Jane]

I said, hey, there's a guy in town that thinks I'm cute and fun. And my husband said, yeah, I bet. And I think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on. You phrase that to him very specifically.

[Jane]

Yeah, I did. I didn't say there's a guy in town I'm very physically attracted to. I said, there's a guy in town that finds me fun and attractive.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Were you asking your husband, do you still find me fun and attractive?

[Jane]

No, I think I was asking my husband, like, how do I trust myself not to enter into an affair? In a very roundabout way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I want to call bull crap on this how do I trust myself stuff.

[Jane]

I think that's what I'm worried about the most. Like, honestly, dropping a hotel card at this guy and just having a fling. That's where I'm worried.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but that's not a matter of how do I not trust myself. That's a matter of not doing something stupid.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. So it's like, it's like I don't know how I can trust myself. It's as though we, our spirits are to the wind. And how do I know it's not going to blow east instead of west? Because I'm just not going to go get a hotel room. Right. Because this isn't a lot of energy to do that, to not do it. Yes, it does. But it takes an insane amount of energy that can be used elsewhere. Living in fantasy life.

[Jane]

That's fair. That's fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because let's say it was the most horrid, wild, imaginative life giving sex of your life this night in this hotel room. Which thousand percent it won't be. You know this.

[Jane]

I know that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happens tomorrow?

[Jane]

Well, I'm a terrible liar, so it would probably implode. My life would be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So that's where I want you to go right now. What about your. Forget this cat for a second. Move him over.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have kids that live at home with you?

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How long have you been married to your current husband?

[Jane]

14 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What about this world right now? Do you want to blow up to smithereens? Because this other guy is just. He's a. He's a. He's a rent a grenade.

[Jane]

You're right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's just a rent a grenade. He's a grenade that walked through and you grabbed it and decided to pull that pin. But you. But the real thing is you want to blow your life up. What is it about your life you want to blow up?

[Jane]

Okay. We have a successful business that we've built from nothing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Jane]

And it's so much work. And this is a lonelier time of year. Sorry I cried.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's okay.

[Jane]

Because we don't see each other very much during the winter. My husband works incredibly hard, but he works very long hours because this is the time of year we make our money and it's, it's kind of a ride the wave. And then we get to January and February and it slows down and he can come home for dinner and we can talk about anything besides work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So is this your way of blowing the world up and getting your husband home again? Because part of me, the guy inside of me is like thinking, how dare you? The moment your husband gets a shield on and his sword out to go to war for the family.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's like, well, that's when I'm going to go bang the neighbor like that.

[Jane]

Like, yeah, I'm with you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I also get. This is year 20. This is year 15. This is year 10. And I'm sick to death of this business being more important than how much we love each other. I'm sick of being co managers of a business and co managers of a house and co parents. I want intimacy and love and connection with a guy more than I want all this other crap.

[Jane]

Yeah. And I do love my husband.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you do, but you're dead in your own skin.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the thought of your heart rate Getting up to 125 beats a minute again or 160 beats a minute again over one hotel tryst is worth setting the whole thing on fire. And I get it. I get it. I promise you, I get it.

[Bailey]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The day after that day is going to come. The sun's going to come up and I'd much rather you sit down with your husband and say, I want to take this season off or I want to hire somebody or two people and it may be too late because the ship has already sailed. But maybe you say, I'm going to work with you till midnight every every day because I want to be with you. And. And I'm making stuff up right now. Right. So it may not be practical, but.

[Jane]

That'S what we're doing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this time next year, this time next year, we're hiring this out.

[Jane]

Hmm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or maybe, hey, what is intimacy and feeling wild? What does that look like? In this season, I'm going to send you the most bananas dirty text throughout the day and I'm going to show up at random times at your office. Like I'm going to create life inside my own skin. Right. And you and I are going to co create this. Yeah, but listen, it is so easy. It's so easy to look around and blow somebody else's building up. That's this whole cancellation culture now. It's so much easier to take somebody down than to actually do the work over a long period of time to build something awesome.

[Jane]

Yeah, you're right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And dude, don't beat yourself up because you met a guy who was mesmerizing and handsome and cute and made you feel alive again. Let that be a signal to a. Don't respond to any more text or.

[Jane]

I don't have his number.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[Jane]

Because I've tried to make some boundaries.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[Jane]

I'd like to give him my number. I would like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me say this way, I think you like the idea of that.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know that you like the reality of that.

[Jane]

Yeah, I'll have to think about that. That's a good point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you like the idea of his hands on your skin or do you want those hands?

[Jane]

I think I like the idea. And I think he looks like a great kisser.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He probably. You know what? He probably is.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He might be a better kisser than your husband. Is that trade worth your life?

[Jane]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. And so can I tell you something vulnerable and scary and ultimately real fun?

[Jane]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell your husband that you wish he was a better kisser and you want to start practicing and he's had a weird breath thing or done something weird with his tongue or avoided it, or not shaved or whatever your thing is for your whole time together. Tell him.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right?

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And tell him you want to take you on a date, but you actually want to meet there and pretend you just met. You get to insert chaos and fun in novelty inside this thing that y'all created together.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think that. I think that is infinitely more titillating, infinitely more fun, infinitely more erotic and exciting. Sitting down across the table and saying, okay, what we had is over. I want to build the most erotic crazy. And he's just going to look at you kind of over. Kind of overweight, tired, with glasses, like, what?

[Jane]

No, that's me. He's very in shape and very handsome. Also, I'm the one you just described, a little overweight.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You want to get sideways here. Yeah. What is it about you inside your own marriage that you don't like anymore?

[Jane]

I don't like being tired and all the daily. You know, the kid is sick and the school's calling and. And there's work and I don't like the daily. I'm kind of tired of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That is the conversation to have.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because this other guy's an escape from reality.

[Jane]

He is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And reality will come crashing down upon you. You'll just have to do it with half of your assets. And you think picking up every day is hard. Now, when you're splitting time with your kids, it will get more complex, but.

[Jane]

For the temptation just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't buy it. I get the feeling is good. Temptation is you. You will set up a series of actions to make this thing inevitable.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Which means you can set up a series of actions that makes it not possible.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think you like. I think you know that that's why you haven't given him your number.

[Jane]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think it's the next step, which is saying, I like being in his presence. And again, I want everyone to hear me say, you will be in the presence of attractive, fun, hilarious, Whatever people, that's just life. Enjoy being in the presence of beautiful people, of silly people, of flirtatious. Like, enjoy that until, you know, I can't do that. I can't be here.

[Jane]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I'll make it.

[Jane]

I think that's where I've. I've hit that spot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So the only person that can change is you. And you can say, I'm not going to be in business with this person. I'm not going to do work with this person. I'm going to intentionally avoid seeing this person.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think more courageously, it's letting him know, hey, dude, I've been flirty and it's felt fun. I am a married woman, and I love the. My husband. And I'm in the process of creating a wild new world for us. And by the way, I don't want to be with a man who would blow up a marriage on the other side either.

[Jane]

That's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you want to be honest and lay it all out with your husband, I think that's right to say, hey, I found myself with feelings for somebody else, and this is a me issue, and I want to bring all of me back here. And there's just some conversations I even had with myself with us, with how we do life, with this world we've made. Will you build something amazing and new with me? What would your husband say? Would he be like, oh, yeah, like what? Is he going to be mad? Will he be relieved? What would he say?

[Jane]

He would be fine. Normal conversation. He would be. Well, I know he would be like, okay, well, what's that mean? Like what? You know. And so he would put it on me because I'm not one trying to figure it out. And so if I said I'd love to have a conversation we'd never have before or haven't had before, he'd be like, okay, like what? Like we go on a walk and talk about, you know, tree leaves or something. Like, I don't know how he would change you because you have to reach.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A point in your marriage where you stop expecting him to read your mind.

[Jane]

Yeah, it's. It. We do joke about that. We don't have that superpower.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nobody does. And Hollywood said that's the way it's supposed to be. I had this big marriage retreat this weekend. It was. It was packed. It was people from all over the country. And I. There's a guy stood up and he goes, I just don't buy it. I think there has to be some sort of. I mean, if you plan romance, it's not romantic. And I was like, dude, Hollywood lied to you, brother. You're wrong. But I think looking your husband in the eye and saying, I am feeling low in this marriage. Yes, we have sex. Yes, you're in great shape. Yes, we make good money. Yes, we both work really hard. Yes, I want desire and eroticism. What does that mean? And you need to be prepared to say, I want us to start kissing again. I used to be into this particular thing in the bedroom. I'm not. I want to try these three things.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I miss you texting. I miss us going out to dinner and forget the whatever. And this is when we get into this language about I need, I need, I need. I want you and your husband to sit down for the first time and say what you want and give each other a roadmap to each other's hearts and to each other's bodies and to each other's minds.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Jane]

That is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think you're a bad person. I think you're standing on a precipice. Thank you. I don't think it's about this other guy.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think he just happened to walk in the door at a time when you looked in the mirror and you didn't like the life you had co created.

[Jane]

It's just a busy life. Do I love it's just a busy life. It is a good life. It's just. It's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm.

[Jane]

I feel behind every single day. It's like when I wake up, like, oh, my gosh, here we go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I want you to remember this one powerful statement.

[Jane]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You choose what happens next.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that means you choose to say, honey, every time I open my eyes, I'm already behind. I want to hire somebody that can help clean the house. We both work really hard.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to hire somebody two days a week that can pick our kids up from school. Or I know you're working hard and you work out all the time. I need you to take two days of your workout off to take the kids to school.

[Jane]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need some help with this or I want help with this. I want to be sexy and I want you to not be able to breathe when I'm not in the room again. And so I want to have some time. I'm going to go take a dance class. I'm going to go take. I'm going to go. Whatever you want to do or need to do. You get what I'm saying?

[Jane]

Yeah, I hear you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You choose what happens next. I'm going to help you out. It's completely sold out like crazy. But they're, they're. They're available from order. There's not the story in the, in the building anymore. I'm going to send you a copy of Questions for Humans, the intimacy deck. And I'm going to send you the couples deck. 1, 2 and 3. Four of them I'm going to send you.

[Jane]

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I want you to do with it, though. You and I husband, are going to go out to breakfast once a week. And we're going to use five of these cards. We're going to re. Get to know each other.

[Jane]

Okay, cool. Yeah, I love that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're going to be honest about how you felt and how you almost blew everything. Or not you almost blew everything up. Because you didn't.

[Jane]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How you wanted. How the thought was appealing. To blow everything up.

[Jane]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

With some guy you imagine would be a good kisser. And by the way, he probably wasn't. He's one of those probably eat your face kind of people. It's just gross. Like dumb and dumber. He's probably not good at all.

[Anna]

That's amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, he probably is. And I bet his farts are bad. I mean, you don't know, right? You don't know. I know he probably wears whity tight. He's gross.

[Jane]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't. Here's the thing. All that is stories you made up. You don't know.

[Jane]

I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you do know is that you love your husband. And you do know that you are exhausted. You're dust inside of your own skin. And so together, y'all have co created this world. And together, y'all can co create something else. And by the way, you are breaking a pattern inside your house. And so that pattern, that breaking that pattern is going to cause loss. It's going to cause distraction. It's going to cause frustration. And there's a strong possibility your husband thinks he's been working really hard for 14 years. For you, of course. For his ego, but for you. And so to find out. Oh, my gosh. I missed a line. That hurts. It's painful. It's weird. It's worth all those conversations. It's worth all of it. This is day one for you, Jane. Day one. I can't wait to see what you two build next. Hang on the line. We'll get you hooked up. We'll be right back. Hey, Everybody who is struggling to sleep, stop what you're doing. Helix, the makers of the best mattresses in the universe, is having a Cyber Monday sale happening right now. I used to hate getting into a bed on an uncomfortable mattress, but now sleeping on my Helix mattress has transformed my rest, I'm deeper levels of refreshing sleep. And I've said this a lot. I'm going to keep saying it. Everyone in my immediate family sleeps on a Helix mattress now. And my extended family is getting in on it too. And my family is all different, just like you are all different. And because everyone sleeps in their own unique way, Helix has created different mattress models designed for side sleepers, stomach sleepers, back sleepers for everyone. And if your spine needs some love, they've got some mattresses specifically designed for you too. All right, now Helix offers a hundred night trial and all Helix mattresses come with either a 10 or 15 year warranty. Just take the Helix sleep quiz like I did and you're going to find the perfect mattress for your sleep preferences in under two minutes. Here's the best part. Right now, Helix is offering my listeners exclusive Cyber Monday savings. 25% off all mattress orders plus a free bedding Bundle. Go to helixsleep.com DeLoney for details. And to save 25% off, that's helixsleep.com DeLoney with Helix Better sleep starts right now. All right, good folks, I want to tell you about Cozy Earth. The holidays are coming in hot and there's buying things and traveling and the little drummer boy on repeat. But more than ever at this time of year, for your physical and your mental and your relational health, you need to take a break from the madness and create a peaceful sleep environment. I call mine my sleep sanctuary. And for me and my family, a big part of our sleep sanctuaries include products from Cozy Earth. Their bed sheets are amazing. They're made from viscose from bamboo. They're tough as iron, but they're smooth as silk. Oh yeah. And my wife is in love with Cozy Earth's long sleeved bamboo pajama set. And I love their cityscape hoodies and crew necks. And they come in men's and women's and kids sizes. And also I recently got this giant weighted Cozy Earth blanket and my whole family has been loving piling underneath it to watch a movie. Now don't forget, during gift giving season, Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all of their bedding. So when you find yourself in the middle of a holiday chaos, mess and pahrumpa Pum pum. Establish your peaceful sanctuary with help from Cozy earth. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code Deloney for an exclusive discount of up to 40% off cozy earth.com DeLoney and if you get a post purchase, survey, say that you heard about Cozy Earth on this show. All right, let's go out to Tampa, Florida and talk to Bailey. What up, Bailey?

[Anna]

Hi, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up?

[Anna]

Thank you for taking the time to listen to a stranger.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I love it. Thank you for time for calling a YouTuber.

[Anna]

So my question is, am I being unreasonable for asking to spend the holidays with my family this year? But I think the deeper question I'm wrestling with is how do I know if I'm dealing with the problem or if I am the problem?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What would Taylor Swift say, Bailey?

[Anna]

Oh, no, I'm not a swifty.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, no. Hey, hang on the line. When this show's over, whatever you want of the products I have, you could have them for free. I'm just going to mail them to you. That's the best answer I've ever heard. I myself, I am a swifty. And I am proud of you for taking a stand culturally. All right, so tell me about going to visit with your family. Who's telling you you can't go?

[Anna]

So my guy, I. Oh, gross.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he your husband or just some dude?

[Anna]

My boyfriend. We live together, but we're not married or engaged yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long?

[Anna]

Tomorrow will be a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Anna]

I also mentioned to him that I'd be talking to you today, so he's just asked that I try to give the full context.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I bet he did. I bet he did. All right, cool.

[Anna]

And I'll try to be as objective as I can until you ask me about my thoughts about it. So boyfriend and I have been dating for a little about a year now. Like I said before, we're not married or engaged. We want to be a different conversation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was gonna say, yeah, maybe one of you does, but the other one doesn't. Okay, go ahead.

[Anna]

We come from very different backgrounds. And what I mean about that is he comes from a family where marriage is stable. His parents and grandparents have all stayed married for decades. Till death do they part. On the other hand, I come from a divorced family. My mom's been married five times and I've been engaged twice. And so I've spent a lot of my twenties traveling and soul searching and nomading around. So before we met, my boyfriend spent over a decade working a job where he traveled about 90% of the time. And he worked really hard with the goal for early retirement. And so right before we met, he decided he's done traveling. He wants to settle down and enjoy the home that he's worked really hard for and be close to his family in Florida, where he's from. And after we met, he got the news that he didn't have to travel anymore. So we dated for a few more months, and then it was like, do we break up? Do we do long distance? Or do we just see if it works, do a little trial run? So now we're living together in Florida, and it's been about six months since I've been here. So with the holiday issue, last Christmas, I visited him in Florida and spent the whole month of December with him and his family. We live really close to them, and I thought we'd alternate holidays between our families in the future. But now that it's time to make holiday plans, he told me that he doesn't want to travel during the holidays anymore, and he now runs his own business so he could work around it. But it feels like he prioritizes his time and his preferences without much consideration from mine. And when we went to visit my family earlier this year for the first time, he gave me about four days of his schedule. And now he says we just saw my family. And so it feels like I'm being gaslighted into thinking I'm selfish for wanting to spend Christmas with my family this year. So I guess I'm really struggling with whether I'm being reasonable for asking to spend this holiday with my family, or if I'm being made to feel like my needs don't matter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't hear that at all, actually. Like, I. I think your needs are your needs, and your. I think, even deeper than needs, I think your wants are your wants and his are his. And it sounds like you made some deals with him in the universe without talking about them out loud. And so it sounds like you cast him in a movie he didn't even know he was in, and now you're pissed at him because he doesn't know the lines. Like, you spent a month with his family, and in your head, you were like, all right, cool, we're going to alternate every year. You just forgot to tell him, right?

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And so now it's come up, and he's like, no, no, no, no. I don't travel during the holidays. I work really hard, and I spend time with my family because we're all super close. And my guess is that's probably deep down why you love him. And also you are trying to figure that out for yourself. Is that the world in life that you want? And so statistically speaking, the quote unquote, try it out. We're just going to live together for six months a year and see if we're going to work out. It's not a good predictor. In fact, it's an inverse predictor of marital success.

[Anna]

I completely agree with you. And I guess that was one of the wants that I was like, let's not wait to have this conversation. On our first date, I told him, I want to get married, I want to have kids. These are my goals. I come from this messy family. But this is still something that is my biggest need.

[Bailey]

And he agreed with that.

[Anna]

Turns out he feels like the government shouldn't be involved in marriage, is what he says.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But here's what it is. It's not gaslighting. It's not any of these things. It's two people who are dating and they're putting their values and principles on the table to see if, A, they align in any way and B, if they may not be as strongly held as we once thought and we're willing to compromise because we're together. Two individual people are building something new together. And it sounds like what you are finding out in real time, that you are ready to exhale. You've been running around for a long time, you're ready to exhale, and it's not going to be with this guy because one of your core values is, I want to get married. One of his core values is I want the government out of my life. And one of your core values is, I want to be around my family during the holidays. One of his core values is, I don't travel on the holidays, period. One of his core values. Sounds like we talk about things as they come up. One of your survival techniques that you've used your entire life is keeping things really close to your chest. And here we are six months, a year later, and he probably was pretty nervous to go see your family. And he did for four days, but it was never a, hey, I want you to come meet my family. And then we're gonna go see them again at Christmas. You just didn't say anything. And now he's like, we just went there. And so a friend of mine, she. She's a writer here where I work at the network. And she. She said, I love this. Unspoken expectations are premeditated resentment. You're expecting him to know these things about you. Or expecting things to, quote, unquote, be fair. And the fair is in your mind and in your heart. And it's just running up against some of his non negotiables. That's what it sounds like, right? I don't think that's gaslighting. I think that's dishonesty. Unless he said, dude, we are, you and me are getting married in a courthouse, at a church, we're doing this. And then y'all moved in. He's like, yeah, right. I'm not doing that. If he did that, then he's a liar. You need to run. Or if he said, yeah, you spend the year with, I mean, the holidays with my family next year we're gonna do it with your family. We're gonna alternate every year. And then it came up and he's like, yeah, sucker. I'm not doing that. That doesn't sound like what happened. Is that fair?

[Bailey]

I think it's fair. I also have a really bad memory. So I think the gaslighting thing came from where? Because we didn't go home for New Year's or Christmas. We were planning on doing New Year's, but things were complicated with this work, so we did. And so he said, we'll go back next year. And so now it's. And it was him telling me, I'm going to marry you. And now it's like, sure, I want the government out.

[Anna]

So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so maybe he, he wants to want some things, but he's not going to budge on them.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's where this is really hard for someone in your position. We won't go into the details here, but you're, you're, you're, you've seen a lot, haven't you?

[Bailey]

I think so. I also work with people in addiction, so I feel like my life isn't as bad. But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't want to do any comparative trauma right now. I'm going to just ask you. You've seen a lot, haven't you? Yeah. You experienced a lot, haven't you?

[Bailey]

I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have. Did mom have a lot of boyfriends in and out of the house growing up?

[Bailey]

She did. They divorced when I was nine. She's. I was from her first marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Bailey]

But she, you know, I came from a very faith based family where it was you, you know, they, she got married a lot because she didn't live with her boyfriend before she lived with them. She, you know, they would date for a few months and then they'd get married.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. But what that tells me is when you were 9 and 11 and 12 and 15. You're always on the margins inside your own house because your mom was too busy starting jumping into or ending a marriage to deal with a young daughter. Fair.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So here's why I'm. I'm going through that real quick. The dream, the fantasy of a stable relationship is got to be one of the most powerful things you can imagine right now. Right? You could probably feel it in your chest how bad you want that. Fair.

[Bailey]

Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't be sorry. Don't be sorry.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, yes, here's the two things. Number one, I don't want you to use this relationship as a way to try to heal the way your mom treated you growing up. It's not going to ever work out. Or to put it more bluntly, your mom is not going to call you and say, you did a great job. That call won't ever come. Okay.

[Bailey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I know that you want that call more than anything in the world. It's not going to come. Am I right?

[Bailey]

Yeah, I'm right. I mean, you're right, not me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She might show you in other ways that she loves you and she cares about you as best as she can, but your mom has been through hell. You know it, I know it. And that means that those that she loved and those that she was in charge of taking care of have been through hell, too. Here's the second thing. In your pursuit of a stable, steady nervous system that dream of peace, I don't want you to cash in on the things that are really valuable and important to you.

[Bailey]

Yeah. Sorry. No, I'm not trying to say sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't owe me any sorry. Okay.

[Bailey]

Thank you. My dad and my stepmom came out to Florida to visit a few months back. And because they really wanted. They knew how important this relationship was to me. And so when we couldn't go out to Utah, they came out here, and my dad was just. Yes, this is the guy for you. He was so. Like, I didn't get my mom's approval, but my dad, who I am so close to, and I really value his opinion, he really thought I picked a good person. And so whenever I. Whenever I have different issues like this come up.

[Anna]

He.

[Bailey]

Understands where boyfriend is coming from. And he also mentioned to me when we were driving him back to the airport, was that he just worries that I'm going to lose myself.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. So can I tell you the greatest gift you can give yourself and this boy that you're with and your Future self. In fact, both of your future selves.

[Bailey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For the first time in your life, I want you to tell him that you want to feel safe saying all the things that you want and that you're willing to risk him looking at you and saying, I'm not going to give you those things. But you have been cashing out parts of yourself or squashing parts of yourself your whole life because there's a nine year old little girl in there going, mom, what about me? Mom, what about me? And she's like, shut up, I'm trying to get married, or, shut up, I'm going through a divorce and there's a nine year old going, what about me? And so you've learned that when you feel something in your chest like, hey, I want to go see my family too. You've learned, sh. They might leave. Don't say that. Or, hey, it might be cheesy and silly, but I want to go to a church and get married. I want to. I want to. I want a marriage certificate. By the way, the whole, I don't want the government, that's stupid. It's bad business. It's not good business practice. Okay, but I get like the, like, I get the bro. I get it, whatever. But it's just bad business having a marriage certificate. Having the certificate is a contract. So if this thing goes sideways, you have some coverage here, just like especially in Florida, by the way. But we'll forget that. Like being able to say, here's what I want. Are you all in? And by the way, it's not just these two things. This is coming up in other issues too. Fair, right? Right. These two kind of going to see family and something like, I don't want the government. There's other issues. Always. It's never just those two. And so I want to. I want to piggyback on what your dad said. This guy is probably a great guy. That doesn't mean he's great for you. He might be, but those two things can be mutually exclusive. They don't have to be the same thing.

[Bailey]

So I have a question for you. Okay. When I have that chat with him, what kind of responses are something that I can work with versus something I should run from?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have to decide that some flags for me would be if he calls you stupid, if he says, I am never, we're not ever having this conversation again. If he makes you feel small or little, those are some red flags. If he doesn't hold your vulnerability gently, even if he disagrees with what you're Saying or what you want. It's the care with which he holds your vulnerability. Just because you don't get, quote, unquote, everything you want out of this conversation. And by the way, it's not a little chat. This is one of the big ones, okay? This is like the. My college students used to call it the dtr. This is the. Define the relationship here, okay? Just because 100% of what you put on the table, he's like, I can do this and I can do this, but I can't ever do this one. Okay. Fair. And he might tell you. He might get the courage to tell you, hey, when I'm around your mom, it makes me feel very uncomfortable. Being with husband number five in that chaos makes me uncomfortable. You being in that chaos makes me feel uncomfortable. You still begging for your mom's approval makes me. Breaks my heart. I don't want to be around that mess. Like, maybe he'll have the courage to tell you, or maybe it's none of that. Maybe it's just work and you're married, a guy that's busy during the holidays. But it sounds like there's some unspoken things that need to be had. The biggest thing I'd look at is how he treats you in that conversation and whether he makes you feel small or belittled because you have your own wants and needs.

[Bailey]

Yes. You know, I think the thing that prompted me to call you was the way that he did handle it when I brought up wanting to go back home for the holidays with him. Because at first I was just like, yeah, if you want to go home, go home. But, you know, my whole thing was, I want to go home with you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And maybe he doesn't mind going home with you, but he can't this year.

[Bailey]

Yeah, that's one thing. And he brings that up. And shortly after, he was just like, let's look at the schedule. Maybe we don't go on the week of Christmas, but we go before or after.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what I'm doing this year. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing this year. And I've been to Texas twice this month, and I'm going again next month, but we're going after Christmas.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Jane]

Which.

[Bailey]

That's something I don't. I don't mind. I. I just want to be with. I want to be with him. And that's. I think the thing that scares me is that, you know, he does tell me things that he wants, and I'm not sure if it's something that he wants me to Hear or something that he really means. But things just change and circumstances change.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And everything is going to be change.

[Bailey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I do appreciate what I want doesn't always come true. So when my wife and I, we sit down in every September, October, and we plan out what the holiday travel is going to look like so we can give our families a big heads up. And whenever we sit down, I always say, I want to do two weeks, I want to do some hunting trips, I want to do some hangout trips, I want to eat tons of Mexican food, I want to do all this stuff in Texas. That's where all both of our families are. And my wife always goes, that's cool. And you have a job. And so here's what's practical, right? And so it's all this wants get on the table and it's all fun and it's frustrating and it's annoying and it's this. And then we buy plane tickets or we get the car gassed up and I send an email to all my family and say, here's where we're going to be there. And some years just know, some years you're going to fly back home because you want to spend a little bit more time and you want to be there and he's not going to be there and that's okay. And if you're going to stay together long term, there's going to be some seasons when, I mean, there's going to be every year where you say, every Christmas, I want us to go downstairs or I want us to go sit under the Christmas tree for our private Christmas Day morning, or I don't really care about that at all. In fact, Christmas is the best day to travel. We're just going to do that. Like y'all get to decide what that is. I say this a million times on the show. I want you to be very clear about your pictures, pictures and words. Because you say something like, I want to be with you during Christmas. And he says, I want to be with you during Christmas. I want you to be very detailed and specific on what that picture is. Is it Christmas day? Is it a tree? Is it opening presents? Is it going for walks and looking at lights? Is it traveling? And I want him to be very specific about I want to be with you during Christmas. Very specific about that picture. Because then all you have to do is align the pictures like, oh, the week after Christmas. Yeah, it's awesome. The week before Christmas. Yeah, that's fantastic. Christmas Day, I'm with my family. That's just Like a no, it's like a. I don't compromise that right now. And you get to decide. All right, then I'm breaking up with you. Or. Okay, that's great. Let's align our pictures and words of what the holiday looks like. And even bigger. I want you to take some steps towards telling him. I'm going to alter the dynamic in our relationship a bit, and I'm going to start being very specific about what I want. Want. And it's never been safe before for me to do that. And I'm going to start doing that because you deserve it, and more importantly, I deserve that. And then he's going to say, thank you for sharing that with me. Here's my picture of what this looks like. And then y'all can negotiate the pictures. And it gets pretty easy when y'all start talking that way. But I want you to be specific with him. He sounds like a great guy. Sounds like he just has his own specific things. You sound like a great woman who's ready to change everything. And you've got some specific things. It's time for y'all to put them both on the table. Not in a chat, but in an important conversation about the future of your relationship. And let's hold them loosely and let's put them on there and be totally honest with each other. My guess is y'all gonna figure this one out and then tell them for Christmas. Your picture this year is him taking a knee under a mistletoe and asking you to be his wife. Let's do that one this year. That would be awesome. Thanks for the call, Bailey. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, it's that time of year when it's getting a little colder, it's getting dark earlier, and sometimes we just want to stay in and get cozy. And for me, my perfect night at home is something my family calls bed pile. The whole family gets under some blankets around the fire, and we either read some books out loud like nerds or we watch a movie together. I love it. Whatever your perfect night looks like, therapy can feel a little bit like that. A time when you can settle in, replenish your energy, and take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one big reason why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapists. You can talk with your therapist just about Anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey. You get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp Help. H E L p.com/ DeLoney. All right, we're back. Don't forget the 50 Days of Christmas deals going on with the Ramsey team. Questions for Humans couples are on sale for 12 $12 and building a non anxious life is 30% off. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com store and get presents this year that matter. All right, let's go to Boise, Idaho and talk to Anna. Anna. What's up, Anna?

[Kelly]

Well, the sun is shining and I successfully, successfully got my five young kids plus two bonus kids to two different schools on time. And I get to talk to you. So it's a pretty good morning.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dang, Gina, that's a lot of humans in your house.

[Kelly]

It's a lot of humans. Yep, just over my house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did I get a niner in there? Y'all have nine people there.

[Kelly]

No, seven. We brought two friends to school today. I carpooled.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep. Oh, okay. Okay.

[Kelly]

All right, so five kids, my husband and I, So seven for us. Plus two bonus.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Plus two bonus. Because why not?

[Kelly]

Why not?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, I like adding a little chaos to my life. All right, so what's up? How can I help?

[Kelly]

Okay, so first I'll ask you my general question. Then I can give you more specifics if you want them. Okay. How can my husband and I effectively discipline our 13 year old son without making him feel like his life is over?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, I'm going to answer this with one quick statement and then I want to hear the whole story. Okay, Sounds good. You cannot control your son's feelings, period.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Full stop. Okay, now tell me the full story.

[Kelly]

Okay, so primarily it has to do with screen time. So that's the thing that if we're gonna give him a discipline or cut something out, that's what really gets to him. Other things, extra chores, whatever else doesn't really affect him at all. And if we take away screen time or cut it in half or whatever, he's just a beast. He's moody, he's rude, he thinks his life is over. And in this day and age, I feel like with kids things have changed so much that a minor thing maybe to adults because we can see the bigger picture to children in adolescence. He hasn't gone through Puberty yet, I don't think. I think to him it's the end of the world. And is it okay for him to feel that way? Should I do something different? Should we talk through it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, there's a lot here. Your assessment of what kids can handle and not handle is a little bit off. It's not quote unquote. So I, I, I heard somebody is probably six or seven months ago, and I, I track with them 1,000%. They said, I'm sick of people saying the quote, unquote. These kids these days, okay? And he went on to say, the kids have not changed. They're exactly the same. It's the adults in their lives that have changed.

[Kelly]

That's fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so you and me as parents of young youngsters, young teenagers, and young kids, it's us that have to do the management, not these kids. They're just kids. So a couple of guiding principles I always go with with when I'm talking to parents about kids. Number one, kids do what works. And some kids are super ultra compliant and go get straight A's because it works. And in the same house, another kid may fight and scream and yell, depending on any number of temperament, when they were born, brothers and sisters, time with mom and dad, intentional stress, epigenetics, all this stuff doesn't matter to me. Just matters. The kid in front of me, they may try to burn the house down because it works, right? And eventually you go, fine, I don't care. Here's your stupid screen. And they win. And even, like, you know what? I use the wrong word. It's not a competition. What does screen time give a kid? It gives them distraction. It gives them an exhale. It's a drug. And the folks who built the screens, the apps, the shows, if you got behind closed doors and learned how intentional they are with colors, with fonts, with, with, with change rates, with all, with the flicker rates, with. It is a, it is precision science, as though they are crafting pure heroin.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you've got a kid. How old's your child?

[Kelly]

He just turned 13.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So when he's screen, is it phone, is it texting, is it social media? What is it?

[Kelly]

We're pretty strict. He likes to play Fortnite, and he thinks the time allowed is for babies, and it should be more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But what is Fortnite for him? Is that a way he interacts with his friends?

[Kelly]

Yeah, he talks to his friends, but he's also pretty outdoorsy with his friends too, so he's getting a lot of outside Time too, with his friends.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Ah, right.

[Kelly]

He's just, he's just, he gets really, just in a bad mood and mean lately because he doesn't get enough screens. And if we take it away and it's just all. Everything in his world is based around that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Kelly]

He doesn't have a smartphone, so he says we treat him like a baby because he has a trumi phone, which is a kid version phone. And.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. And I think the response to that is no, we treat you like someone that we love and want to keep.

[Kelly]

Safe and that's good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so your kid is allowed to be frustrated and allowed to be annoyed. I mean, he's 13. That's his job, right? Yeah. Yeah. What he can't do is have control over your feelings or your. He can't have access to your emotions or he will use them to his gain.

[Bailey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As Dr. Becky Kennedy calls it, you've got to be sturdy in the face of a 13 year old. Now here's where I've taken all of the me verse you out of it and I place it wholly on my kids. And here's what I do. Number one, there are some non negotiables. I have a 14 year old. He'll probably, he's figured out how to listen to these episodes now. He'll probably listen to this. He will never get a camera on a phone in my house.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Period. Ever. Last night, you guys are the worst. Now he's dying laughing when he's doing this. But he's like, y'all are the worst. You don't care about me. You know? And he's being funny, but it's like. And I started laughing and I was like, one of my favorite things is to make you miserable. But he knows I'm not giving you a camera because you got the unfortunate lot in life that your dad did. A whole bunch of sexual assault investigations at the college level. Not going to give a phone to you with a camera on it, period. You're not going to get social media. I know how devastating it is to me and I don't care. I'm not going to give that to a 14. Right. So all I have to say is there are some non negotiables.

[Jane]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The next round of negotiations is my son, my daughter versus my son, my daughter. What do I mean by that? Last night my daughter said something that was really unacceptable and rude. And I said, if you choose to not respond X, Y and Z and you choose to do that again, you are choosing X, Y and Z. Consequence and that doesn't make sense to me. But I want her to feel the weight of. If I choose to be sassy, if I choose to hit somebody, if I choose to steal, she doesn't do that stuff. But, like, if I choose behavior X, I am choosing consequence.

[Kelly]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if she choose, I'm making something up silly. If she chooses not to get a room cleaned up on Saturday mornings, she's choose chosen to not watch tv. I've got nothing to do with it because in my house, you only watch TV on Saturday mornings and you only watch TV when all your chores are done. So you get to choose how you roll there. Right now, is she still eight? Yes. Does she still kick and scream? If I hold myself to my own standards, yes. I shouldn't have permission to make me mad. So I'm not going with my life.

[Kelly]

Right, Right. That's something I need to, you know, his emotions, they're not. It's not me. He doesn't have control over my emotions. That's on me. And I need to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But he does. He does need to choose to be respectful or he's going to choose to lose a lot.

[Kelly]

So that's kind of, you know, so he's been very disrespectful. I just. Goodness. He's always been my sweet, you know, he's the oldest of five. We have twin girls that just turned seven. They're the youngest. And he's always been my sweet, responsible, you know, when. And in school. He's in seventh grade. He's in all advanced honors classes. He does a great job. And he's like, mom, I'm doing. I'm doing my stuff. I'm, you know, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. It's not fair that you are controlling, you know, my screen timer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your safety is. There's not an ROI on your safety. Yeah, there's just not.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So when he acts in a way and he thinks his life is over and he's, you know, goes in his room and he doesn't want to come out, he doesn't want to do normal life because he thinks his life is over, do I go engage with him? Do I give him space? Do I talk through it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would give him a little bit of time because he's learning to regulate his emotions.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then he gets to choose to take a walk with you on the block because here's what he's asking for. Can I have some private time with my mom or my dad? Can I have some full attention, connected Time. Because I used to be the only one here. Now my life's exploded. There's 14 people running around here and there's two twins.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that plays on your mom guilt because you never have enough singular time with any of your kids.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you get frustrated and y'all both have this emotional back and forth game. And then he says things like, I make. I'm doing perfectly. Why do you hate me? And you're like, fine, Play your stupid game. And then his body goes, ah, Now I know the boundary in this house.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you get what I'm saying?

[Kelly]

Yeah, I know. That makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you first. Mom and dad. You'll have five kids. I want y'all to double down and triple down on rebuilding your marriage because that tension ripples through the house.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old's your youngest?

[Kelly]

So there are twins and they just turned seven. So we had five in five years. The twins were a big surprise. The fourth one was a surprise. Then there were two.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Kelly]

It was just nuts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What y'all haven't done is reimagined your marriage with five people.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Under your care. What did dates look like? What does sex look like? What does laughter look like? What does us going outside and we're having mom and dad grown up time and all the kids need to go away. What does that look like?

[Kelly]

See, I feel like that's actually one area where we have made a priority. Obviously, we're not upset at it, but we do a date every single week. Sometimes it's biking to Starbucks and bringing cards. Sometimes it's more elaborate. But we do. I mean, we just went out of the country together for a 15 year anniversary and left all the kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, okay. I'm way off on that. I'm wrong. That's perfect.

[Kelly]

Yeah. We. We do. We take. We spend a lot of time together. One night a week when the kids go to bed. We try to not watch a show. We try to like. We like playing board games or cards. So we're not perfect by any means, but we definitely want to show our kids. I've heard from you, from others that our marriage is more important.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Perfect. He's going to come to me when he gets home.

[Jane]

Before.

[Kelly]

Before the kids. And my kids see that we kiss in the kitchen, you know. Yeah. All the things. And they say, you. And I think that's so healthy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly.

[Kelly]

When I. Yeah. When our twins cry when we go on days. Because they still do. And then the kids stay home by themselves now. Which is amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Kelly]

But when they don't want us to go. We tell them, you know, if you. Us having a good marriage is the biggest gift we can give you guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, dude, so I'm wrong on that one. Y'all are nailing it next.

[Kelly]

But we were trying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, of course, y'all. Y'all are more perfect than most. The next step here then is let's look for not breadth of time, but intensity of time.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is there once a week your husband can take your 13 year old out for breakfast.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can we just make that a commitment? It's unbudgeable. I mean, and that's not even a word. But no one's going to budge on this. Your son's going to kick and scream, we will do this once a week. Yep. Kid gets to pick the restaurant. Can you or him do that? Probably more likely, dad, because you've got other chaos going on.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And I think it's good. Good for them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But. But can we do that? And then in those conversations and to a 13 year old, love equals depth of time, intensity of time. Is there no screen? Is there just my father or my mother looking across the table and saying, how's your day? Fine. They're not going to answer you and they're not going to answer you. The next time it's going to be boring. The next time it's going to be boring. And then one morning after you and your son have gotten into it, your husband's going to look across the table and say, hey, you will not disrespect my wife in my house.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then your son might say, dad is not. I'm. I'm missing out on things at the lunch table. I don't even know what's going on in my friend's lives.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And as my son told me once, at least you had a phone on the wall that you could talk to your friends. I got nothing.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I actually called an expert, like one of the best, like, like first person shooter game players. I know they're amazing and they also happen to be a SWAT hostage negotiator. And I said, do you let your kids play Fortnite? And he said, absolutely not.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because of the controls of other people joining games. I said, what about Minecraft? And he said, it would depend on the kid, but that has a better closed loop of games.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So this year at 14, I made that adjustment for my kid.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Kelly]

And yeah, I want to, I want to preface this by saying my husband is. So we have, We've been married 15 years he's one of the ones that is just, just incredible, Incredible guy. I mean, just. I don't know what I did. Just. He's an amazing dad, amazing husband, amazing friend, just amazing employee. He's just a wonderful person. So I want to caveat that first, but I do want to say he's an engineer, so he designs a lot of electrical, electronic stuff, you know, memory, lots of things like that. And so in his nature, he's on his phone a lot and he likes to be on his phone. That's kind of, that's what he does. That's what he likes to do. And I'm noticing that our oldest is noticing that and he's like, well, you know, you say it's not great, but dad's always on his phone. And that's something that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know how he has one. You sit down with your husband and tell him exactly what you just told me.

[Kelly]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because what you just said is a context. Non excuse. I'm an introvert and I know that surprises people because I'm so loud and blah blah on the show. But when I get home, the only thing I want to do is go up to my little reading part in my house where I have all my reading in my notes and I just want to sit there and stare off into space and read a book.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I have an 8 year old little girl saying, dad, do you see me and do you love me?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I have a 14 year old boy saying, dad, do you see me? Do you love me? And because I chose to bring them into the world, I am choosing, I, I have thereby chosen to skip the thing that is my Xanax. In your husband's case, it's a screen or it's a thing he likes, or in my case, it's my, oh, I just want to be self indulgent for I, I don't get to do that. I gotta roll out the wrestling mat and me and my daughter going WWE style or me and my son are talking about girls and doing homework together. Like whatever the thing is, right?

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're here because of me. Right, Right. And so it is, it is in that friendship that y'all have, there is a vulnerable, truth telling conversation. Here's how me and my wife do it. You and your husband can do it however y'all want. You guys sound like y'all are crushing it. My wife will say, john, I have a vulnerable conversation I need to have when she says that that is a key. And I say it back to her. Like I'll approach her with that, Hey, I need to have a vulnerable conversation. When we say that, that is a key. All screens go down, all phones go over, and we look at each other in the eye and the only answer the other person can give is, thank you for sharing that. That's it. And then occasionally I will say, can I, can I have a rebuttal? And she will sometimes say, not yet or absolutely. I'd love to hear what you have to say.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But what that allows her to do is so that I don't start barking at her. I get real defensive, or you know how hard I've been working, that kind of nonsense. However spouses do it, she can say, hey, I got a vulnerable conversation. Go for it. Go. The last like three weeks you have lived on your phone. And the kids notice it. I'm noticing it. You are not present in the house. I miss you. They miss you. Is everything okay? And I exhale real big and I go, ugh, thank you for sharing.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then I can say, can I rebut that? And she'll go, sure. And I'll say, hey, I've got this huge deadline thing going, but. But I will bring my kids in and I will say, hey, guys, you've seen me on my phone and it's wrong and I'm sorry.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But she has permission to call me out on that stuff. And I think you calling him out doesn't negate all the amazing things you said about him. It deepens your friendship and your love for each other. Fair.

[Kelly]

Yeah, that's really fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he might say, hey, I've got a vulnerable thing. You're going toe to toe with a 13 year old boy. You need to stop doing that. And you can go, ugh, okay.

[Kelly]

Is it, Is it. I don't want to say normal, but is it typical at this age for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Our son to be moody as heck?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, he's.

[Kelly]

So if he wants something, I mean, he can change it if he wants something. And him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So we're go watch the movie Inside out. One and two.

[Kelly]

So good. I've seen it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're right. They are right. Just exchange that girl with your boy.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Everything in his body's on fire.

[Kelly]

And that's why it all revolves around what we don't let him do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. And here, just imagine he's a 13 year old boy that knows he's loved, whose parents have an amazing marriage and he is by nature becoming a bull. And I hate to use cow analogies because he's not a cow, he's a young man, but he's becoming a man. And he is crashing into boundaries and see if they hold. And if he can't get through him by force and he can't get through him by straight A's, he's going to get through him by whining. And if he can't get through him by whining, he'll begin to exhale and say, okay, this is how the world works.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doesn't mean he doesn't love you. In fact, he is screaming, I love you so much. Do you still see me?

[Kelly]

Yeah. And we, we try as well. And again we have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know. Hey, I'm not blaming. I'm not blaming. This is not.

[Kelly]

No family here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. It's not about guilt. This is not about any of that. Anna, don't do that. Don't go to the guilt. You're going to the guilt now. Don't do that.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're doing a really fine job.

[Kelly]

But isn't it hard to not be like, what could I.

[Austin]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Kelly]

Like once a week we try when the younger three are in bed, our 11 year old daughter, she's 11 and a half, and then our 13 year old son, we let them stay up and me, my husband and them too, we play.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Kelly]

We play cards or we do something, we try. So it's just hard to not to think that it's enough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. But listen, you're a 13 year old. Pretty soon your husband's going to say, hey, just go on a trip, me and you, where do you want to go? And he's going to say, I don't want to and hang out with my friends.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's not a statement, it's not an indictment of y'all.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's slowly developing a tribe. It's just how it goes.

[Kelly]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And y'all get to say, sorry, you're coming on the trip with me. And he'll go, okay. And if it's a connected trip, then it will be a mesmerizing, magical experience for him in his nervous system. And he might still say, I just want to be with my friends. I just want. He's 13, man. He's 13. It's not an indictment of what kind of parents you guys are. But he is going to try to find where the boundaries, how firm are these boundaries? How safe am I in my own skin? Because everything in his life is coming unwound. His understanding of how his friends work, his understanding of other friends, parents, his understanding of his relationship to who he's romantically interested in his relationship to. He's in eighth grade or now he's a freshman in high school. And grades actually matter now. And coaches are expecting more. Like everything is raising up and so he's going to smash against the boundaries in his home to make sure they hold old. And you have to be risk being willing to not be liked by a 13 year old because you're so mean. Okay, My job's to keep you safe, dude. And I get a 13 year old wanting to play video game and me saying no, him being upset. Of course he is. He's 13. Of course he is. Of course he is. I get upset when my boss says, you got to do this. I'm like, I don't want to do. I get upset about that. I'm an old, old man. That stuff's normal. It's normal. But let's circle back with your husband and see if you can find time that one or both of you can have depth of time. And in my house, it has been transformed by that, by that weekly breakfast. In my house, it's been transformed by here's who the Deloney's are. And here's the choices you kids get to make about the life y'all have. Y'all get to choose these things. And if you choose disrespect and you're choosing no X, Y or Z, hope you don't make that choice. If you choose disrespect, you're choosing to not be in this room. And I hate that choice because this house doesn't work without you. But I want to teach you choice and consequence. I don't want to teach you there comes a line when you cross it and dad or mom will kick you out because that line doesn't exist. I will never kick you out. You can always choose to walk away from me, but I will always be here with a door wide open for you. Always. And at 13, they're trying to figure that out. So part of me wants to tell you, buckle up, Anna. It's just getting going. And the other part of me wants to tell you it's completely normal. Y'all are doing a good, good job. Maybe one last thing. Try. And I've. I've heard parents reach back out to me and say, this has been magic in their home. Try a journal with mom where you write a journal or a spiral and put it on his bed and you write a couple of things that you see in him that's amazing that you see in him. You catch him doing something good. I saw you today help out your two sisters with with their lunch. I really love seeing the man that you're becoming. That was really amazing how you were worked hard on that one project. Great job. I really see how you honored your sisters this morning. I saw it was good. And the rule is when you write on his, he has to write something back to you. A BMW. Best and worst of the day. And for the next two years, his worst might be you won't let him play video games. So what? Who cares? But you find ways you can go to depth of connection, which is hard because you got a thousand kids. And then your husband needs to start saying, okay, I'm going to skip a workout once a week and I'm going to take him to breakfast. And then you and your husband have the conversations about phone usage, about getting to screaming matches or whatever else is going on. Give each other permission to love each other. Iron sharpens iron to call each other out and to be truthful. Thank you so much for the call, Anna. You're on the right track, my friend. We'll be right back. Christmas time is here. There's parties, buying things, being sad that no one bought you anything. There's travel, all of it. There's so much going on that we can forget to set aside time for what's truly important. The good news is that Hallow is here to help you keep your spiritual priorities in order during a season of madness. Hallow is the world's number one prayer and meditation app. I use it every day and I love it. And right now, their Advent Pray 25 challenge called for God so loved the world is live and in action. Plus, Hallow has book studies led by Bear Grylls and Jonathan Roumie, prayer guides, a Bible study on the book of Ephesians, kids, advent programming, and more. Good folks. This season can be an amazing time to encounter God's love and find the true joy of Christmas. And Hallow wants to help you experience this. So they're offering three free months right now when you sign up at hallow.com deloney start the new year right so you can enjoy this fantastic prayer challenge completely free. That's Hallow.com DeLoney for three months of hello free. All right, we're back. Please, please, please, please hit the subscribe button on YouTube. We're so close to the million mark and I want to get there before the year is over. So please and tell all your friends, get everybody in the club to get a tipsy And B, subscribe on the YouTubes. And Kelly, you got something cool that happened. What is it?

[Austin]

Yes, first of all, I need more cool crap that happens and am I the problem starting to run out? Please, please, please send those in to ask John at Ramsey Solutions. And make sure you put in the subject line cool crap that happened or am I the problem so we can read them. All right. This is from Austin and he says after hearing on your show about the magical question, what does your picture look like? I knew it was something my husband and I needed to implement. We aren't the type that has huge arguments often, but when we find ourselves sad and even resentful at times, when our picture for a day event, et cetera, doesn't come out like we thought. Really, it isn't that. Excuse me, really, that it isn't a fair frustration because we haven't even communicated those hopes out loud. Sure enough, when we have stated ask. Well, we've started asking each other almost daily. What does your picture look like? It has resolved so many of our smaller disagreements and disappointments. We both know what the other has in mind and our hopes for. And with that information, we can do everything in our power to make that possible. Thank you for sharing this tip and so many other things that we have learned from your show. P.S. i was out the other day and saw Kelly getting her latest Elvis tattoo. I was fairly surprised that she chose to have her have it cover her entire back, but it looked pretty good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It does. Exhausted, I. Hey, way to go. Is Austin.

[Austin]

Austin with a Y.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's a she Austin. Amazing. I'm proud of you for those. It's like we need to change everything. No, you don't. She need to ask that one question and it intends to transform your whole household. That's amazing. Good for you. And I like you. I've been both stunned and impressed. Kelly is starting to slowly get rid of all the old English tattoos back from her biker days, which are cool, and she's replacing them with celebrities. Kind of weird. She's got a dope. Dope. She wears like super, super, super short jean shorts and she's got her Taylor Swift, like, full body thing down her quad. Kind of weird, but she shows it off a lot. But the Elvis tattoo, I didn't see that one coming. I thought you were more of like a John Rich guy. And so having the Elvis tattoo on your back, like, I didn't see it coming, but. Go get him, dude. Ain't nothing but h crying all the time. Good job, Kelly. Hey, everybody. Thank y'all so, so, so much for being with us. Grateful for you. Merry Christmas. Bye.