I’m Tired of Supporting My Husband and His Daughter

Summary

Episode Summary: "I’m Tired of Supporting My Husband and His Daughter"

Podcast: The Dr. John DeLoney Show
Host: Ramsey Network
Release Date: March 12, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney engages with callers facing intricate challenges in their marriages and personal lives. The episode delves deep into issues of financial dependency, marital strain, struggles with addiction, and mental health concerns, offering listeners practical advice and profound insights.

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1. Christine’s Struggle: Financial Dependency and Marital Frustration

Time Stamp: [00:05 - 13:26]

Caller: Christine from Nashville, Tennessee

Issue:
Christine reaches out seeking guidance on whether it is reasonable to cease financially supporting her husband until he secures employment. She expresses frustration over her husband's prolonged unemployment and lack of progress in finding a new job after leaving the mortgage industry.

Discussion Highlights:

• Background:

  • Christine’s husband, originally an accountant, transitioned to the mortgage industry as a branch manager.
  • In August 2022, he left the mortgage sector due to its detrimental impact on his well-being and attempted to pivot to e-commerce without substantial success.
  • Christine has been the sole breadwinner, supporting the household and her husband's daughter without receiving child support.

• Emotional Toll:

  • Christine discusses the emotional strain of being the sole provider and the diminishing respect for her husband’s lack of contribution.
  • She reveals ongoing tension with her stepdaughter, who harbors trauma and distrust towards women.

• Dr. DeLoney’s Advice:

  • [05:25] Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of setting firm boundaries, suggesting that Christine can choose to formalize the separation financially: "These are your bills. This is your kid. This is my house."
  • [07:44] He challenges Christine’s confidence in her husband, stating, "You shouldn't have any confidence in him," highlighting the disconnect between her perception and reality.
  • [12:25] Encourages Christine to confront her husband with clear, direct statements using "I" statements: "I'm tired and I'm getting the message loud and clear..."
  • [13:26] Dr. DeLoney underscores Christine’s worth and the necessity for her husband to regain purpose through proactive steps like securing employment: "You're worth more than being miserable all the time."

Notable Quotes:

• Christine: "I'm wanting to get help to understand if it's reasonable to stop supporting my husband financially until he gets a job." [00:05]
• Dr. DeLoney: "You shouldn't have any confidence in him." [02:20]
• Dr. DeLoney: "You're worth more than being miserable all the time." [12:25]

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2. Fletcher’s Battle: Overcoming Pornography Addiction and Strengthening Trust

Time Stamp: [21:13 - 32:44]

Caller: Fletcher from Dallas, Texas

Issue:
Fletcher, a 23-year-old preparing for engagement and marriage, seeks advice on managing his past and intermittent struggles with pornography. He aims to ensure he doesn't bring unresolved issues into his marriage, wanting his future wife to feel secure and trust him fully.

Discussion Highlights:

• Background:

  • Fletcher overcame adolescent struggles with pornography but faces occasional relapses.
  • He maintains transparency with his girlfriend but worries about rekindling trust issues.

• Dr. DeLoney’s Guidance:

  • [22:31] Emphasizes that relationship challenges are inevitable: "Marriage is two people agreeing. Come what may, we'll be right here."
  • [26:08] Encourages Fletcher to forgive himself for past mistakes to move forward: "If she truly forgives you, then you need to do the hard work of forgiving yourself."
  • [29:38] Advises recognizing societal pressures and setting up accountability systems: "Set up accountability. You can set up systems... to help you avoid slipping back."
  • [32:44] Reinforces the importance of self-worth and proactive change: "No one has ever gotten permanently better by hating themselves into behavior change."

Notable Quotes:

• Fletcher: "I just want to make sure that everything is as it should be as we go into a marriage and we're not going to bring any issues into the marriage." [21:16]
• Dr. DeLoney: "You shouldn't have any confidence in him." [07:44]
• Dr. DeLoney: "You have to decide you're worth not poisoning your mind." [31:58]

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3. Rick’s Concern: Addressing a Wife’s Potential Mental Health Crisis

Time Stamp: [36:23 - 51:04]

Caller: Rick from Charlotte, North Carolina

Issue:
Rick contacts the show distressed by his wife’s alarming behaviors over the past few years, including self-harm, paranoia, and extreme changes in her demeanor. He seeks professional advice on how to help her without involving law enforcement.

Discussion Highlights:

• Background:

  • Rick’s wife, a 56-year-old healthcare professional, has exhibited concerning behaviors such as self-harm, paranoia, and barricading herself at home.
  • His daughter has also expressed fears for her safety, prompting Rick to consider professional intervention.

• Dr. DeLoney’s Analysis:

  • [39:30] Identifies the behavior as possible "decompensation," where his wife is descending into a mental health crisis.
  • [43:04] Discusses the complexity of intervening in adult mental health crises and the high thresholds for involuntary commitment.
  • [45:41] Urges Rick to take decisive action: "Today you go and I'm willing to risk you being upset with me and have you involuntarily committed or I'll go with you and we'll get you checked in."
  • [50:27] Highlights the importance of addressing underlying issues, such as chronic pain from fibromyalgia, which may be linked to mental health struggles.

• Practical Steps Recommended:

  • Initiate a direct and compassionate conversation with his wife, emphasizing concern without judgment.
  • Explore the possibility of seeking a psychiatric evaluation or professional mental health support.
  • Prepare for potential resistance and emotional responses, ensuring support for himself throughout the process.

Notable Quotes:

• Rick: "I'm wanting to get professional help for my wife who's struggling with mental illness without having to get the law enforcement involved." [36:23]
• Dr. DeLoney: "If she truly forgives you, then you need to do the hard work of forgiving yourself." [26:08]
• Dr. DeLoney: "You are at a place... she desperately needs you... to intervene on her behalf." [41:05]

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Conclusion: Empowering Listeners Through Compassionate Advice

Throughout the episode, Dr. DeLoney demonstrates a profound understanding of the complexities surrounding marital strife, addiction, and mental health issues. His approach combines empathy with straightforward, actionable advice, urging callers to set boundaries, seek professional help, and prioritize their well-being.

Final Takeaways:

• Setting Boundaries: It's essential to define what is acceptable in a relationship and take necessary steps when those boundaries are breached.

• Seeking Help: Whether dealing with addiction or mental health crises, professional intervention is crucial. Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of not waiting until situations escalate to involuntary measures.

• Self-Worth: Recognizing one's own value is fundamental in making decisions that promote personal and familial well-being.

Key Quote to Reflect On:

• Dr. DeLoney: "You are worth being well and you're worth waking up full of joy in the skin you're born in." [End of Episode]

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for listeners navigating similar challenges, providing both solace and practical strategies to foster healthier relationships and personal growth.

Transcript

[Christine]

I'm wanting to get help to understand if it's reasonable to stop supporting my husband financially until he gets a job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I imagine there's a lot here, huh?

[Christine]

I have every confidence in him that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You shouldn't have any confidence in him. Good morning, good afternoon, good night, John, with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so grateful that you're joining us on this show. We talk about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, your kids, local schools, whatever you got going on in your life. My promise is I'm gonna sit with you and we're gonna figure out what's the next right move for you, for your family, whatever y'all are working with. If you want to be on this show, this is real people going through hard stuff. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. Leave a message and we'll holler back girl at you. Or go to john deloney.com/a S K. All right, let's go right down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee, and talk to Christine. Hey, Christine. What's up?

[Christine]

Hey, good morning, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Thanks for calling. Thanks for getting up early with us. What's up?

[Christine]

Absolutely. So I am hoping to get some help with making the next right move quickly. Getting into my question, I'm wanting to get help to understand if it's reasonable to stop supporting my husband financially until he gets a job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I imagine there's a lot here, huh?

[Christine]

There's a ton.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let it rip. Let it rip.

[Christine]

Okay. So by trade he's an accountant, and a couple years ago, he transitioned into the mortgage industry and became a branch manager.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it's been a rough couple of years, huh?

[Christine]

Oh, it was. It was. Yeah. And in August of 22, decided that it was no longer a healthy place to be so extended the mortgage industry. And he spent the last couple of years trying to figure out what the next great job is for him. And unfortunately, there just hasn't been a lot of progress.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So as an accountant over the last three years in one of the most bananas job markets in the history of the United States, where in many places it was a sign up sheet. Right. It was like to get a job. And I know that's not, that's not the case across the board, but for a licensed accountant, for somebody who knows how to manage numbers, good. Good God almighty. And he quit. I was gonna say the last two years or so, it's been a bloodbath in the mortgage industry. But 22, it was still raining mortgages.

[Fletcher]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So he quit when this thing was hot to trot. Right.

[Christine]

Well, it started slowing down in June, and by August, things had really just for him, dried up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Christine]

But more than that, it was just sucking the life out of him. Sure. And he was miserable, so we agreed it was time for plan B.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But he jumped off the boat without. Just into the lake. He didn't have another boat to jump into.

[Christine]

Right, Correct. Yep. He tried the e commerce world for about six or seven months. Actually, more like a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean? Like buying and selling, reselling ebay stuff?

[Christine]

Kind of. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So he just watches a lot of Instagram reels?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. YouTube stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you sat down and told him, I no longer respect you?

[Christine]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How'd that go?

[Christine]

He understood.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Christine]

He apologized, recognized, you know, the failure in providing for the family and, you know, needing to find a job and turn things around.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How have you all paid the bills the last three years?

[Christine]

Me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. So I am the sole income for our family. He has a daughter and we are not receiving any child support from his ex wife. So everything is sitting on me financially from end to end.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is she not your daughter also?

[Christine]

No. I mean, she's my stepdaughter, but no, she's not my daughter biologically.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long have y'all been married?

[Christine]

A little over 10 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you've had a youngster living with you for 10 years and you don't consider her your daughter?

[Christine]

I do. The relationship is really strange. She's got a lot of trauma with her mom, so she doesn't trust women and her dad is the end all be all, and so we're more like friends than I then. She's my daughter. Not for lack of trying. It's just the circumstance.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We'll let that be another call. That'd be another call. Yeah. You can call for that.

[Christine]

That's a whole nother thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So go back to your question again. What are you asking?

[Christine]

I'm trying to figure out if it's reasonable to stop supporting my husband, to cut up the credit card, to cut up the debit card and, you know, almost force him to go get a job at Home Depot or something like that to help bring in income so we'll actually support himself as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the answer is you can do whatever you want. You're an adult. You're a grown up. Right. I would suggest that is essentially an in home divorce.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That is you choosing to formalize the separation that has already taken place. And it wouldn't be a Legal formalization, but it would be a financial formalization. These are your bills. That is your kid. This is my house.

[Christine]

Yeah. And then I don't want to do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But then the next step is. He won't. Right. He's not. Like, he. Forcing him is not going to work. It hasn't yet. You've tried all sorts of ways, I can almost guarantee it. And I don't know any married couple in this situation where, where the wife has lost the amount of respect you've lost. And I'm trusting you that it's not about a dollar amount. It's about, like, this is three years. And like you said, fine, you don't have your dream job, but, like, you haven't been working at Home Depot and then going to throw boxes at Walmart until midnight and then getting up at 5am to drive Uber to make, and then getting up the next ind, just as I know men across the country get up and grind it out on behalf of their families. Forget their dream job, Forget their Persian purpose and passion or whatever other BS that is on Instagram. Like, they get up and they make things happen. They mow lawns, then they go clean up the church. I remember my dad being a policeman who made hardly anything, and then we cleaned the church on the weekends, and then we go mow lawns. And even, like, you do what you got to do. And I've never met a couple in your situation where your sex life is great, where y'all are exercising together or going for walks or hikes or your dating life is great. You get what I'm saying? So it just like the whole relationship's an ash.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I, I. It sounds like you're at an or what moment. So I guess I'd ask you, are you done being married to him?

[Christine]

Not at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Christine]

I have every confidence in him that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You shouldn't have any confidence in him.

[Christine]

Well, I was gonna say that. What? When he does something, you know, he does it well. I just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Like, what he's doing right now is nothing, and he's doing that remarkably well.

[Christine]

Well, that. That is true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right?

[Christine]

That is true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's. Here's what happens. People in your situation often want to own part of reality. They want to hold on tight to this image that this is a good man. He's a good guy. It's just been three or four years since he's had a job. He just plays a lot of video games and lets his wife get up and go to work while he's still in Bed every day, and they come home and make dinner three nights a week or four nights a week, and, like, whatever. So there's. And then always has a scheme. Right. You want to hold like, no, he's a good man. He loves me. Whatever. And on the other hand, he completely abdicated his responsibility to provide for his daughter, provide for his wife, to do anything remotely contributing to the household. And what I want to tell you is that's you only holding part of reality. The reality is behavior is a language. Your other. Your husband said, I'm out.

[Christine]

I was afraid you were going to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me that until you rest in that, because now you have impetus to act. You have to do something. You. I mean, actually, you don't have to do anything. You can live like millions of couples do, which is a completely lifeless, bloodless marriage.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where you watch TV and scroll and he watches TV and pornography, and he. He's just waiting to get the girl out of the house, and he found somebody to pay the bills. Because, by the way, he probably doesn't want to be in his skin right now either, does he?

[Christine]

No, not at all. I. I don't think so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he struggling from depression? Has he gone to see. I'm assuming he hadn't gone to see somebody, right?

[Christine]

No, he hasn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Christine]

I. I think there's an element of it there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does he do all day?

[Christine]

Well, it's really weird. So I guess technically he has a job, but he hasn't been paid for anything that he's done. And so he has a hobby. Yes. Yes. I'm in my office upstairs. He's in his makeshift office in the bonus room. Doors closed. I don't know what he does. I don't hear him on the phone. If I walk in to ask him a question or whatever, he's sitting at his computer, but I don't know what he's doing. There's no tangible evidence when I ask him about, you know, this deal that closed, you know, what. What's it look like getting paid?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Christine, there's no deal. You know, there's no deal.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know that.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think in some ways, you're letting the closed door keep you from the conversations that you know you need to have.

[Christine]

And I just don't know how to have the conversation a different way. It's like, it's not that many of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I. I heard. Man, she really challenged me on this. I heard Dr. Becky Kennedy say recently, a boundary is something that requires nobody else to do anything. A boundary's for you. It's a declaration of what you're going to do. And I think that you're at an either or moment. Either I love him. I'm not getting divorced. I'm married to a guy that won't work. I'm married to a guy that is giving a yet another troubled picture to his daughter of what marriage looks like. But this is a guy married partridge in a pear tree. I'm gonna make the best of it. I'm gonna go on about my life. That's option A. Option B is I've tried every conversation statement. I've tried dressing in sexy things. I've tried these, these kind of pseudo never again conversation. I've tried everything. So I'm at the end of my line here. So you get a job by this date and by job I mean there's a direct deposit happening in our joint checking account or you are choosing to leave. I don't know. I don't know. Another option. Because right now you're choosing misery by sitting in the middle.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're worth more than being miserable all the time. He is too, by the way.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you ever asked him, hey, do you want to be married to me?

[Christine]

That was actually a conversation I was planning on having this weekend.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I. And here's what I would do. I would write down your conversation points.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And be very clear about using I statements.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you probably heard me say that a million times. And I know it gets hard when it's something's like this.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if you say I'm tired and I'm getting the message loud and clear, you don't want to be married to me anymore, I'm ready to go. Like, if that's what you want, I'm ready to have that next step conversation. It's going to break my heart. But I'm not going to hold you here anymore. And I have to have something different in my home. I have to have a husband that contributes that I can anchor into also.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And for whatever it's worth, I know often women know this intellectually, but just from just speaking from my guts. I don't know that it can be overstated how much dull eyed men walking around have been told explicitly, implicitly, it's the air we breathe that you. I mean, the question is, what are you worth? That's the question. And men answer that with a number. I am worth this much. I make this much much. Not. I make furniture, not. I make people have more peaceful lives. I make this many dollars. And so I'm not defending him, but I'm providing a context that sometimes when a wife grabs her husband and says, I don't care about the number, I care about watching the man I love have no purpose. And ultimately the house is, is, is the life is leaving this home because the life has left you. So I don't care what the number is right now. I don't know what your financial situation is. That can be a whole other call, but I don't care what the number is. Right now. I'm assuming you'll have money for groceries, but you got to do something. You have to go regain purpose. And for most people, regain purpose is done in. In tiny steps. Tiny wins. I'm gonna go get a job at Home Depot and I'm gonna show up on time and I'm going to wash my clothes and put on my uniform and I'm going to help other people have better days. I'm going to go work at Walmart from 8:00pm Till 2:00am I put on headphones and I'm going to listen to podcasts and I'm going to throw boxes, I'm going to stock shelves so that some exhausted mother comes in off her night shift at 6am and she can get the food she needs and she can get back to her kids. I'm going to go do that. I'm going to go put provide some value somewhere. The money will follow, but maybe sitting down and say, I know you're not making what you used to and I know you feel trapped and yada yada, yada, but forget the money. I'm watching my husband lose purpose and this has to happen. But at the end of the day, here, here's. You're boxed in, Christine, and I want you to unbox yourself. And that's either accepting what it is, making peace with it, and deciding, I'm not going to complain and whine about it. This is what it is what it is. Or here's my line. And then your husband gets to make a terrifying choice. Is he in or is he out? And if he's going to be in, here's what that means very clearly. Let me know how that conversation goes, Christine. And if y'all have that conversation and he wants to give me a call and ask for next steps, I'm happy to walk alongside him, too. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks, let's talk about Helix. All right, do me a favor. Close your eyes and think about your mattress. The one at your house. Be honest. Is it lumpy and gross and full of weird stains? And do you think about how comfortable your mattress is at home every time you're out of town or staying in some hotel? You know it and I know it. 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Right now Helix has a special March sale that's tied into that big basketball tournament to celebrate all the brackets and buzzer beaters and Cinderellas. You can get 20 off site wide. Go to helixsleep.com DeLoney today for 20 off everything that's Helix H E L I X helixsleep.com DeLoney with Helix Better sleep starts right now. Let's talk about Hallow, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. It's officially Lent, which are the 40 days leading up to Good Friday and Easter. Lent is when Christians all over the world commit to a season of fasting from all sorts of things and they commit themselves to reconnection and remembering, prayer and meditation. Right now, Hallow has a challenge going on called the Way it's meant to reflect living the way of Jesus. And that means doing hard things that lead to peace, joy and healing. Throughout the way. You'll get to hear some incredible stories from people like Jonathan Roumie of the Chosen, Chris Pratt, Mark Wahlberg and more. And you'll be invited to participate in experiencing life change yourself. Plus, you can check out Hallow's Lent Challenge for kids called the Little Way. It's a fun, meaningful adventure for the whole family as y'all will follow along with two kids learning to live out gratitude every day day. And this is just a tiny bit of what Hallow offers. Hallow has a huge catalog of music, guided prayers, meditations and more. And when you sign [e-mail] Deloney you'll get three months for free. So you're covered all through lint and beyond. Go check out hallow.com DeLoney for three free months. That's Hallow. H a l l o w.com DeLoney all right, we are back. Hey, don't forget to subscribe. Hit subscribe and leave 5 Star Reviews. And just otherwise click the thumbs up. I don't know how the Internet's work, but just let the algorithms know you're in on the show. And if something we talk about today like you're like, oh man, my friend needs to hear this or my mother in law needs to hear this, please send the show their way. It makes such a huge difference with all the Internets and the computers and the algorithms and by the way, it just helps people. And here's another cool thing. Big announcement. We just had our money marriage getaway here and it was off the chain like always. We're running it back like we do every fall. Every marriage needs intentional time. A way to disconnect from life. So busyness reconnect and build a life they love together. If you here's what we're doing. It's we're running the money in marriage getaway. It's going to be in November 6th through 8th, 2025, three days here in Nashville with me and my good friend Rachel Cruz and a couple of other super special guests. You're we're in Nashville so you never know who's going to show up. Three days of laughter, hard conversations, maybe some tears, Intentional time together and lots of practical teaching. We talk about money, we talk about sex, we talk about communication. It's kind of like if you listen to the show and you want to be like, yeah, but, but, but, but that's what this retreat is, is us getting into the details. And my favorite part is we, we, we intentionally keep this small. We int. We intentionally don't put it in four or five thousand seat places because we want people who show up to have access to ask their questions, get their questions answered. So if you come to this and you leave without your question answered, that's on you. We try to get to every single question that we can and make sure people are heard and seen. Early bird tickets for the entire weekend. And by the way, we keep it intentionally below market value because I want, I know people are struggling financially. It's 750 bucks, 749 for three full days. And every time we launch this event, tickets sell out fast. So hurry up, get [e-mail] events or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on the Tubes on podcast. All right, let's go to Dallas, Texas, and talk to Fletcher. Hey, Fletcher. What's up?

[Rick]

Hey.

[Fletcher]

How's it going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doing great, brother. How are you, man?

[Fletcher]

Good, good. Can I give you some context?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can do whatever you want, man. Cannonball.

[Fletcher]

So when I was. From the time I was maybe 13 to 18 or 19, I struggled with porn about like most guys do, I guess, and was able to get on top of that and fast forward till now. I'm 23, and my girlfriend and I of. Of three years are. I'm. I'm wanting to get engaged to her by the end of the year and get married next year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome.

[Fletcher]

And I've had a couple times of struggling with that again in the relationship, and I've been super transparent and honest with her about all that. And we talk about everything, and she tends to be more of a insecure person anyway, and that's not made her feel super safe. And, you know, I just want to make sure that everything is as it should be as we go into a marriage and we're not going to. I don't want to bring any issues into the marriage. Does that make sense?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, you're going to bring plenty, dude. You. You'll bring tons of issues, most of which you don't even know about yet. And she will too. And so I. I want you to exhale on that one Marriage is two people agreeing. Come what may, we'll be right here. And when you. We turn this corner together and you realize your dad wasn't who you thought he was, or her mom wasn't who she thought she was or whatever, like, I'll be right here. And when you get sick and when you go through challenges and when you struggle with addictions, I'll be right here. So how can I help you today?

[Fletcher]

I just. I just don't want to bring that particular issue. I mean, I know we're gonna keep growing up and everything, but I just. I can't afford to make her feel like that. I don't want her to settle for someone who would still deal with that, you know, which I don't feel like I do, but I just want her to feel safe and heal that trust that's been damaged before.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I feel like there's a question beneath this question, because, I mean, cutting to it, you struggle with pornography as a teenager. And you were a teenager during the years when it was the wild west, when moms and dads just gave their kids cell phones, like gave them open access to the world wide web. In the. One of the most insane parenting shifts in the history of humanity. And me growing up, you had to find somebody who had a dad, who had a Playboy or a Penthouse. And now everybody, every pornographic everything of all time ever is in a cell phone. And parents just hand them to their 13 and 14 and 15 year old kids. It's madness. It's insanity. Yeah, but listen, bro, you're a child from 13 to 18. Let yourself off the hook. Relax, okay? Don't go to war against your teenage self, your kid, all right? You bringing in self hatred. I'm more concerned about that. Let me put it that way. I'm more concerned with you going into your marriage thinking you're gross or something's wrong with you. The second thing is, let's just be honest. Is that cool? Just you and me and a couple million people listening. You're always going to be interested in seeing beautiful naked people. Always. And so beating yourself up about that is. Ma. Is. It's madness. Don't do that. There are beautiful, attractive people everywhere. All over. It just isn't is. It's that next step, dude, when you decide to log in and click on it.

[Fletcher]

Right, right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can set up systems, you can set up accountability. Whatever the things you got to do, you can do set those things up so that you don't do that thing.

[Fletcher]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get what I'm saying? So that part, right. That part is something we can work through. You're not a bad guy. I don't think you're evil. I don't think you're a terrible person. But what's beneath this is something I want to dig into more. What's the thing beneath the thing? Is she having doubts about marrying you because you looked at pornography before?

[Fletcher]

No, she's. She's all on board. We're both on the same page. But just looking back on, you know, those times. I know. Really, really hurt her, you know? And I just don't want to do that again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then I'm gonna tell you something crazy. All right? You have a pen and paper? Write this down.

[Fletcher]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't. You know what I mean?

[Fletcher]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If she truly forgives you, then you need to do the hard work of forgiving yourself. You messed up. You violated Yalls y shared trust. She said pornography is infidelity. As far as I'm concerned and it makes me feel less than. And you said, I hear you, and it sounds like a couple of times you broke that trust. And you're a courageous 23 year old. Most 23 year olds are just a ball of. Of hormones and cowardice. You're not that. You went and told her, hey, I messed up and I'm sorry, and you had to deal with the consequences, which is her telling you that breaks my heart. It makes me feel less than. It makes me feel not beautiful. Whatever else she's. Whatever she said, right? And if she says, I forgive you, I still want to marry you, then you need to stop carrying those bricks around.

[Fletcher]

Yeah, she. She's been nothing but. But what she should be. She's been nothing but loving and. And supportive.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so why. Why do. Why do you hate Fletcher?

[Fletcher]

I think. I think when I was younger, you know, like you're saying, there wasn't a lot of talking about all that, you know, with parents and everything, and definitely didn't feel like guys were dealing with that anyway.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here, here's the thing. You also grew up. Yeah. You grew up in a generation where 99% of sex ed came from pornography. It's how. It's because parents sure as hell weren't having that conversation because they were raging cowards and they either didn't know how to do it or they refused to go get the tools to do it. So they had this awkward super talk one day and then called it good. Or they never had that talk. They put a pamphlet on, you know, in your backpack and said, going about your day. Or they outsourced it to some 25 year old youth minister who. Don't get me started, dude. So here's the thing. You were set up to fail as a 13 year old. And your parents may be amazing and wonderful, but most parents handled this terribly. Okay? It is what it is what it is. But here we are. Now, your adventure moving forward is to learn how to not blush when you hear the word penis. To be able to stand in front of your f. Your wife and say, this is all of me. Do you still love me? Because I love you. And to be able to have frank and fun and erotic and hilarious and awkward conversations with your wife about sex. And nobody taught you about that. And so you're gonna have to fumble through it, but keep committing. I'm gonna mess this up. We're gonna screw this up. Let's try it again. Let's try it again. Let's try it again. Do you get what I'm saying, yes.

[Fletcher]

Sir, I like it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, man, I don't think you're a bad guy, Fletcher. In fact, I think you're one of the good guys.

[Rick]

Thanks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're gonna struggle with the idea of pornography probably for the rest of your life. And so you, I mean, you'll get old and you won't care. But when I say struggle is. You're always. I mean, it's, it's like being an alcoholic, and they just are. You're not alcoholic, but it's like having. Struggling with alcohol. Then all of a sudden, a couple of computing companies give you an endless stream of a super insane alcohol and put it in your pocket and say, you have to have this at work. You have to have this for your social life. You have to have this for everything. And by the way, don't drink, right? It's madness.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's madness. So it might be you're not going to have a personal computer. You're just going to have your work laptop. That's all you're going to have at the house. It might be that you get one of those accountability software programs and you give it to one of your buddies or give it to your wife. It might be that the next time you get you, you find yourself, like, starting to scroll and wanting to go down to find some pornography on your phone or on your, on your computer, you stop and you say, okay, what's going on in my life? Do I feel lonely? Do I feel tired? Do I feel bored? I need to release? Do I feel super horny? Like, what am I feeling right now? And let that be. Be curious about it. When you go into judgment, then you go into just that dark shame. And then your body has to do what it's got to do to try to feel better real quick. Right?

[Fletcher]

Yeah, that's, that's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the thing that has helped me, eating junk food, which is one of my great vices, is right when I'm about to grab yet another handful of cookies, is to ask, am I actually hungry? What else is going on in my life? Almost always when I'm just grabbing junk food, I've got some sort of relationship challenge, whether it's with my wife, my kids, my parents, my work colleagues. I got something relational going on. And it was such a revelation to figure that out. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Fletcher]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So track it back, track it back. Every time you're about to click on something, just stop and go, okay, what's going on in my life? But I'LL tell you this. No one has ever gotten permanently better by hating themsel into behavior change. You have to decide you're worth not poisoning your mind and blowing out the hedonic parts of your brain and supercharging your sexual appetite in a way that no human on the planet can satisfy.

[Fletcher]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Fletcher]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you trust that girl that you're about to marry?

[Fletcher]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does she say she loves you so much?

[Fletcher]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then if she's someone who tells you the truth, I want you to believe that. And I want you to be sad for a minute. Maybe you write 13 year old you a letter and say you're about to go through six years of unfettered access to the most vile, crazy, supercharged, bananas things in human history. And you're a kid and you shouldn't have gotten access to that. And I'm sorry that the world did this to you. But now that I'm an adult, I'm going to take control of this thing.

[Fletcher]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair? Let that little kid off the hook, man, he was a kid. He's 14 years old, 16 years old. Right. As a society, we don't let those kids smoke cigarettes and drink beer because they're kids. So it doesn't help anybody to get to be 23 years old and turn on and yell and scream at them because there was a lack of adult supervision in their life and there was some really supercharged algorithms that targeted them and took their souls from them. And it can blame us. I'm not gonna blame a 16 year old for wanting to see naked girls. I'm not gonna blame a 16 year old for being curious about sex because nobody else in the world's talking about it. And I'm not going to be curious. I mean be upset with a 16 year old who's wants to see what naked men. Look, I'm not going to get mad at that. They're 16. I expect adults to be adults and right now they're not. And by the way, adults are like, no, I don't care. Dude, let's give my kids a phone. It's fine. It's just like. It's not. This is what we get. We get 23 and 24 year olds who want to get married and they hate themselves for things they did when they were 13, 14, 15, 16 and 18 and whatever. Because nobody helped with boundaries is what we get as adults, man. We gotta do better. We just do. Fletcher. Thanks for the call, brother. Let me know when y'all get engaged. We'll be rooting for you. I think your. Your future fiance, your future wife is Miriam of the good guys. Blessings to you, brother. We'll be right back. All right, here's the deal. The modern world exposes us to things that were unheard of until just a few decades ago. And I don't mean the lame cat videos and endless streams of AI influencers. I'm talking about screens in our homes and offices, fluorescent lights, EMFs. These things that can affect our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and more. And that's why I'm so excited to partner with Bon Charge, a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use Bon Charge products all of the time, literally every single day. And I love them. And here's why you'll love them, too. Studies show red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress, and help with sleep. It can help you recover from aches and pains. I used it on my foot this morning. Transform your skin, and even help with cellulite and stretch marks. My red light therapy panels, the infrared sauna blanket, the EMF mat, and more have become a cornerstone of my health and wellness routine. Like I said, I use them every day. And check out Bond Charge's other amazing products like blue light glasses, EMF protection products, infrared sauna blankets, and 100% blackout sleep masks. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to say 15 sitewide. That's B O N C-H-A-R-G-E.com DeLoney and use coupon Code DeLoney to save 15%. All right, let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Rick. Rick. Rick. Rick. What's up, Rick?

[Rick]

Hey, hey. Hey. How you doing, Dr. John?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing all right, man. What's up?

[Rick]

Hey, my reason for my call is I'm want to know how I can get professional help for my wife who's struggling with mental illness without having to get the law enforcement involved.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Who paint me a picture here.

[Rick]

So over the last couple years, there's a lot of behaviors that my wife has experienced in the house and with me that causes cause for concern. Some of them are she's had a lot of weight loss and no appetite. I have witnessed her, like, hitting at herself, like in her arm, like she's in pain, something's bothering her. I've seen her hit her face. I've seen bruising on her. She locks the house continuously. There's tape over closet doors. She puts barricades up inside the Pantry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is she using?

[Rick]

Not to my knowledge, no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She on any sort of prescription medication?

[Rick]

The only prescription medication that I recall, and this was about a year ago, is she took some. She was taking Topamax for migraines.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rick]

And there was lots of calls for concern because of some of her behaviors. My daughter confronted her with it, and I did, too, as well. And I don't know that I don't believe she's still taking that, but I do believe it had some impact on her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, if. Based on what you're telling me. How old are you guys? How old are you? How old is she?

[Rick]

I'm 53. She's 56.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And this is all sudden and new. This isn't. This isn't been gone for 20, 30 years.

[Rick]

Not for 23 years. Me and my daughter have talked about it. She's brought up things in the past, growing up that kind of, like, small indicators that some of this. With some tendencies were there with the paranoia and the concern that, you know, that other people were doing things to her or. She's always walked around, you know, scared to death of what other people think about her. But here, the last two to three years, it's gotten worse. And then here, recently, it's progressed that I was out of town one weekend for work, and my. I had my son come and stay out of concern for her safety, for her. And while he was there, he witnessed it firsthand, and he confronted me about calling the police because he felt like he needed to call the police with some of the behaviors.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rick]

So one of the example was, is there were some lights outside, and she swore up and down it was people stalking the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. Okay. So. So there's. And the nerd word is decompensating. So it's. It's. You're just watching somebody essentially turn to ash or a pillar of salt right in front of you. Right. They're becoming a shell of who they were and descending into. I guess the crass way to say it is descending into madness. They're. They're experiencing a world that objectively doesn't exist, but to them is very, very real.

[Rick]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And I have tremendous. I've sat with those folks, and I've sat with people. I mean, holding their hand with them, clenching me as though there is somebody with a hatchet coming at us and there's nothing there. And so my compassion for folks in her situation run very, very deep. Okay. I also understand that the perception of. Let me say it this way, you as a husband, how long you've been married 20, 30 years.

[Rick]

30.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

30 years. There's a sense that. And this isn't to call you out. This is to give you peace. There's a sense that a. These things sometimes happen by degrees. And it's kind of like seeing an old friend from high school that suddenly gained a hundred pounds. They don't recognize it, but when you see him, you're like, oh, my gosh. Right? Or the opposite. They've lost £100. For them, it was just a couple ounces a month for the last 30 years. And so this might be happening by degrees, and you're just. You're just picking up extra weight because it's kind of your life. But your son shows up for a weekend, he's like, whoa, dad, mom is not safe.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So there's that, but there's also. Here's the other side. You're not a bad guy. You're not an unattentive husband. If your wife is using and you don't know. So I want you to. I want you to. I want you to free yourself from. No, I'm confident that's not true. And I want you to put everything on the table right now as a possibility. Okay?

[Rick]

Right. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So give yourself some peace. If. If she somehow got a hold of some medications, some drugs, and she's using and you don't know it, that doesn't make you a bad or unattentive guy. Okay? Sometimes people who struggle with deep, deep, profound paranoia are extraordinary at hiding because in their souls, they have to, because nobody else knows what's going on.

[Rick]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So I tell you that to tell you. You are at a place. Now I'm just telling you professionally, you. She desperately needs you, the man who loves her, to intervene on her behalf. And what that looks like is a direct conversation. This ends today. You're gonna go. You can come with me, or someone's gonna come pick you up. You get to choose. But you're going today for a psych eval, okay? And that's an. That's an end of a conversation. And it has to be done in a way. And sometimes people can do it by themselves. So I've done it for people, right. When they think, you know, no, I can manipulate my husband, I can manipulate my wife, And I show up to the house, I'm like, yeah, you're manipulating me, because I don't care. I don't mistake in this, but you are going. Or sometimes people get their family together. You've probably seen some of those intervention kind of Shows, but it's basically a declaration. This ends today. Okay, here's the. Depending on what state you're in and depending on any number of other factors, sometimes people can walk in. And the standard, the, the, the, the standard for a state to take away somebody's civil rights, to say you have, you are no longer in control of your life. We are. That standard should be and is very, very high.

[Rick]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So sometimes adults will get like, like committed. They'll be in an institution for three or four days and then it will occur to them, I can just leave, I'm an adult. And often they're right.

[Rick]

What does that look like when she's still holding a job and has for the last couple years without incident? I can almost confusing part. That's the confusing part.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I mean, you don't know what they're dealing with at work either.

[Rick]

Well, I know she's a healthcare professional.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Rick]

So she helps other. Other others at a assisted living, nursing home, caretaker, and has for her entire career. And that's the computer. And my daughter is also a healthcare professional as well. And we've had the same conversation is she still holds the job, she still goes to work every day and everything seems fine, but as soon as she comes home, it's like she does all the things that I'm describing and that's the. Where I struggle.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I would say, I would say two things. Number one, that's yet one more data point that she may be, to put it nicely, borrowing from a pharmaceutical cabinet. If she's got access to other people's pharmaceutical drugs and she's just. You're watching her rapidly change in front of you. Because one of the things I, I want to know when, if I'm doing an assessment on somebody is do they have access? And if they're a healthcare professional. Professional, the answer is undoubtedly yes.

[Rick]

Yes, correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's number one. Number two, people who struggle from extreme paranoia sometimes are experts in compartmentalization because they think they're running a game on everybody else. Not a game, but they're running a. They're having to survive. So think of it like, like a Sherlock Holmes episode where he has to dress up and go and, and play a part.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so it can go on for years. And here's the, here's the other thing I would tell you without a proper clinical assessment, you at home trying to armchair quarterback it. She's. You're watching her get worse in front of you.

[Rick]

That's my fear is it's getting worse. And in all honesty, I believe she thinks I'm the. I'm the enemy. That's great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That is okay. And when you tell her I'm get. You have to go see somebody. You've got to go get a clinical assessment because I'm losing my wife. You will be the devil incarnate. And you have to love her enough to walk through those hot coals.

[Rick]

That's my sphere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's the. I mean, here's the other thing, brother. What's the other side of it?

[Rick]

Well, that scares me too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rick]

I mean it's almost a no win because the. It's. What's. What's worse? I mean, choose your heart.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me. Can I be. Can I be real crass with you?

[Rick]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or not crass, just real direct. That you've got to choose your hard. You're going to choose for a season to have your wife who is not well, think she hates you. She doesn't. But to confirm, whenever. When you think everyone's out to get you and you find out somebody else is noticing your behaviors, it just confirms it. It makes it worse. It's like gasoline on a fire.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Except Itubru tay. Like not you too. Right. Not like you're my husband. You don't see this. And so yes, expect an amplification of this a hundredfold and it all to be channeled on you. The other side of it is often when somebody is unspooling like this, they know it, they feel it and it often ends with loved ones planning a funeral.

[Rick]

That's. That's the scary part. But I do know that living like, living like this now is not sustainable.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct. And so anytime I'm talking to somebody, I'm always looking at trend lines. Everybody has bad weekends, bad days, bad whatever. That's fine. This is something that is. Is on a negative trend line. You stepped out and had a third party show up and this, your son went, oh my Lord, we gotta get her some help. So unless your son is a hypochondriac. And, and I say that in the funny way, not in the clinical way, but like he's overdramatic and you know your kid. But it sounds like when he said it you were like, you're. I know you're right.

[Rick]

Well, I know he's right. And I think. And he did confront her with that and she immediately replied is, I don't have any mental problem, I don't need mental help. But we all, me, him and my daughter all believe that she needs something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay? So I would not use the word mental help. I would, I would have all three of you if, if they're. Are they adult kids?

[Rick]

Adult kids? They don't live at home. We're all live in different areas.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Perfect. I think you all three sit down and say we love you and we know that you're not well. And everything about you tells us that you're terrified and you're scared of, of your own home and your own skin. We want you to go talk to somebody. I'm fine. I'm not going to do that. Well, here's the deal. Today you go and I'm willing to risk you being upset with me and have you involuntarily committed or I'll go with you and we'll get you checked in.

[Rick]

So what does that look like? Do I just take her to the hospital?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you. Well, if you. Yeah, pre arrange it. Yeah, pre arrange it. And you can go to a inpatient where they can do a 48 hour or 72 hour hold. If she signs up for it, then that's a whole other track. But you'll have to wait, unfortunately, you'll have to wait until something bad happens. If you're gonna, if you're gonna have her involuntarily committed, you have to wait till she flies off the handle or starts banging on stuff or hitting herself or stuff like that. Because that again, that threshold is very, very high.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because they don't want old grouchy husbands who's thinks their wife is annoying in the middle of a football game to get committed.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So that, that line is very high.

[Rick]

And I've struggled with that too, because even my. And I've told my son if she ever pulls off one of these again, that I would do that. And she disappears into the back room or to the bathroom and starts to start crying and screaming and yelling and like she's in pain or something. And I don't know if that's the right time to do it because 20 minutes later she's back to normal, it seems like for a little bit. And then she'll lay on the couch for 30, 45 minutes and happens. Or. Yeah, it's exhausting and correct. And it just wears me out and it. And I know, and I probably should have mentioned this earlier is she does been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. And I don't know if that's tied to it or not, but I think sometimes that causes some pain. And that pain, she, in her mind, it's being caused by someone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. But fibromyalgia is often a. Almost. I'll say almost universally. It's been a minute since I read the latest, but it's almost universally. It's rarely diagnosed in somebody that doesn't have existing mental health disorders.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That makes sense. And I'm sure there's a chicken or egg component to it. But chronic pain often is. Is highly comorbid with other more significant challenges. It's your body's way of saying, I'm trying to get your attention. We're not. Okay.

[Rick]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're not safe.

[Rick]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it could be relationship challenges, it could be work challenge. It could be any number of things going on.

[Rick]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I think it's sitting down, saying, the time has come. I love you enough to risk you not liking me, being mad at me, hating me, whatever you think you're gonna say, but you gotta go get some help. Do you have any. And I say this very delicately. Do you have anybody at. Know anybody at her workplace where you could sit down and talk?

[Rick]

I do not. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would be stunned if they don't know something's up.

[Rick]

She. She's done well with this one. Now, I know previous to this one, there was a couple instances in previous work where. And she wouldn't tell me everything, where she left the work. She actually got in a leadership position. And then something. It seemed like it was going south, a lot of the paranoia stuff that she would bring up. But then all of a sudden, she left, took another position. And then within a month, she was at home for a couple weeks, and then she came back and told me she. There were some differences. And then she left and then got this one, and she's had this one for about a year and a half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. My guess is it's unspooling fast, too.

[Rick]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. I mean. I mean, all. And again, all we're doing is following patterns and trends here. I think you want to validate her lived experience. I don't want you to say, I don't think you're hurting. I don't think you're scared. All those are very, very real. I think you use I words a lot. I can't sit here as your husband of 30 years and listen to you go in the bathroom and scream and then collapse. I, as your husband of 30 years, I, as your son, cannot listen to you hitting yourself in the face, hitting yourself on the arms, screaming, yelling. I can't. I can't be here to watch you falling apart like this and hurting like this. I'm gonna call. And sometimes it's threatening. I'm gonna call somebody, they're gonna come pick you up or we're gonna get in the car, we're gonna go down and get you get the help you need. I don't think you're crazy, but I think you are hurting so bad. It's cruel of me to let this disc continue. I'm just telling you, Rick, once you get on that roller coaster, it is indeed a roller coaster. And we are playing a 2 year, 5 year, 10 year game even. You're gonna risk not being liked. You're gonna risk her saying evil and awful things to you. You're gonna risk her writhing and having no place for that pain to go. And so you, you're the you're you get gets dumped on you. That's for sickness and health, for better and worse. I hate that, but it is. But I promise you, I promise you it's better than planning a funeral. I promise you. Thanks for the call, my brother. Thanks for the call. You call anytime. And happy to talk to her too. I can be of an encouragement to her. We'll be right back. All right, listen, folks, there's no such thing as mental health. Separate from physical health, separate from emotional health. There's just health. It all works together and everything's connected. It's almost impossible to be whole in one area and struggling in another. 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When you lock in your plan, that's almost 50% off their regular monthly rate plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.net that's T R A I N W E L L trainwell.net Deloney trainwell.net Deloney Go. All right, we are back. I want to read some questions from recent Money marriage event. These are questions that people can drop in an anonymous box. An anonymous box. Yeah, I'm great at talking. Here's a couple of questions. How do I tell my wife of over 10 years that I still feel inferior and compare myself to her former husband and boyfriend, but she still makes me feel special? I just don't know how to get over those other men. Here's another one. How do I rebuild trust after an affair? I would love some steps to learn to trust again. Here's another one. I am broken and not feeling like I deserve or can be fixed. I cope by trying to give to everyone else, which helps me feel a little better. But I still feel depressed at times and can get angry with myself and others. Is there even one thing I can do to help me? Here's one more. What do you do when you've both been married before? How do you make yourself stop feeling like you're plan B or plan C? And this is strange for me personally, just because I get questions all the time on Instagram, by the way, I don't answer social media questions ever like this. Get tons of comments and things like that. And for whatever reason, there's a. There's a distance in those questions. I don't know if a person wrote them, if a computer wrote them, they come just across in the same font. There's something about reading these note cards, people's. I'm thumbing through them if you're just listening here, but it's written in people's handwriting and some of this handwriting looks clean and some of this handwriting looks desperate. And I know I'm reading into that, but it's just heavy. And so if you're asking yourself questions like this, it's gonna sound bananas, but I want you to turn off the podcasts and I want you to have a Spark from a YouTube show. I want you to put down the books, by the way. I have a podcast. I got a YouTube show. I write books. Those are good for awareness. They're good for step by step plans. But when you're asking yourself, I'm feeling broken and I don't feel like I can or deserve to be fixed. I had an affair and I don't know how to rebuild trust in myself and my partner. And I need some like someone to walk with us step by step by step. How do you stop feeling like plan B or plan C. Because if both of us, if both of our lives had worked out as we originally planned and we wouldn't know each other, we'd still be married to our original. Like, if you're there, can I recommend, please go see a counselor. Especially men, we all go see a therapist, please. And if the therapist is terrible, go a couple of sessions and go somewhere else and ask for action steps. And I know as well as anybody does that sometimes it's cost prohibitive. 250 bucks an hour cash, 175 an hour cash. And you're trying to figure out how to pay your light bill these days. I get it. Or it's, yeah, I would love to see you. Our next available appointment is in seven months. And you live in some rural community and that's all you got. You got no access. Or you can go into a local church and sit with somebody who's completely untrained, they don't know what they're doing, and they, they beat you over the head with kind of out of context Bible verses and you just walk, you stumble out into the light thinking something, you're even worse off than you. I get it. I get it there. This is one of the reasons why I support a program like Better Help where you, within 24 hours they're going to talk to you and you're going to see you and they can do couples counseling and all that kind of stuff. If you can't get into a local therapy place in your, in your local community and in your town, if you can't afford it, please call my friends of BetterHelp. They'll answer the phone. And if you don't like the therapist, if it's not going to work for both of you, then you can switch. But please make a commitment to yourself. If this is you, if you're walking around feeling like you, you're not, you can't be fixed. If you're walking around thinking, I'm always going to be a plan B, I'm always gonna be a plan C. I don't know how to flip that. Please, please go see somebody. Please go see somebody. Whether it's a local therapist, whether it's a local trained pastor, whether it's my friends at Better Help, please reach out. You are worth being well and you're worth waking up full of joy in the skin you're born in. Thank you so much for being with us on this show. You are worth being well. Make the call. Love you guys. Bye.