My Affair Ruined My Relationship With My Son

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show — Ep: "My Affair Ruined My Relationship With My Son" (March 16, 2026)
Host: Dr. John Delony | Producer: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Dr. John Delony speaks with callers facing complex personal and relational challenges. The lead story centers on a mother's struggle to rebuild her relationship with her teenage son after an affair and divorce. Subsequent calls explore themes of integrity vs. belonging in matters of faith, imposter syndrome after unexpected business success, and creative strategies for building adult friendships, especially among men. The episode is marked by vulnerability, direct advice, and Dr. Delony’s signature blend of empathy and realism.

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Segment 1: Rebuilding a Mother-Son Relationship after Betrayal

Caller: Dale, Mother from Charlotte, NC

Main Theme: Coping with the relational fallout from an affair, parental estrangement, and the slow road to restoration.

Key Points & Insights

• Estrangement After Divorce and Affair (01:16–05:07)

  • The caller expresses deep regret over her affair, which led to a divorce and alienation from her 16-year-old son.
  • Despite joint custody rights, her son refuses overnight visits and barely communicates.

• Dr. Delony’s Perspective on Grief and Loss (02:20–02:49)

  • "It feels like someone has died." — Caller (02:38)
  • “What was your relationship with him has died.” — Dr. Delony (02:43)
  • The grieving process is real and valid, akin to mourning a death.

• On Owning Mistakes and Patience (02:58–04:53)

  • The mother has apologized repeatedly, both verbally and in writing.
  • Dr. Delony shifts her focus: “You're now aiming for a relationship with your 25-year-old son, not your 16 [year old]. What that means is you have to simply just keep showing up for the next 10 years.” (03:12–03:43)
  • Suggests consistent, non-intrusive contact (weekly letters, game attendance, short texts), even if there’s no response.

• The Loyalty Bind for Teenagers of Divorce (05:14–07:13)

  • Dr. Delony explains the emotional conflict: “Anytime he has a feeling of ‘I miss my mom,’... there will be a hot burning fire of disloyalty against his dad when he feels like that.” (05:22–05:47)
  • Recognizing that "He can't be [around you], because it's such a conundrum... of consciousness that he's found himself in." (06:51)

• The Long Game and Unconditional Presence (07:14–07:37)

  • “I’m gonna damn sure let you know every opportunity I can that I kept showing up and I kept showing up and I kept showing up.” — Dr. Delony (07:14)
  • “He will have no evidence to the contrary that mom is his biggest fan.” (07:25)

• Self-forgiveness and Healing (07:40–10:46)

  • The mother details her journey of acceptance, faith, and gratitude.
  • Dr. Delony suggests a new approach to prayer/meditation: “What if you shifted your mindset, your prayers... as ‘give me opportunities to love him well.’... Please help that he knows he is loved.” (09:09–09:28)
  • “It’s an action.” (10:16) — Delony emphasizes love as continuous opportunity, not passive waiting.

• Memorable Advice (11:00–11:14)

  • “Write a letter to 25-year-old him about now…and maybe when he’s 25 you can hand it to him. It can almost be a roadmap for you.” (11:00–11:14)
  • The symbolic act: “If contact is ever restored, I can say, ‘Hey, I wrote you a letter every week for the last four years when we weren’t talking. I want you to know I never stopped thinking about you.’” (13:00)

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Segment 2: Integrity vs. Belonging in Faith, Family, and Relationships

Caller: Eli from Phoenix, AZ

Main Theme: Navigating authenticity, integrity, and belonging when personal faith diverges from family and community expectations.

Key Points & Insights

• Caller’s Dilemma: Faith and Identity Conflict (15:08–19:39)

  • Eli, a pastor’s kid, describes evolving from evangelical Christianity to agnosticism, struggling with “performing” for family and an increasingly serious Christian fiancée.
  • Feels tension between being honest about beliefs and preserving relationships: “I chose relationship over holding too fast to my beliefs.” (16:37)

• Dr. Delony’s Core Challenge: “Why don’t you like you?” (19:39–20:09)

  • Delony probes the deeper issue of internalized shame/performer syndrome common in religious households.
  • “You think something is fundamentally wrong with you... It’s not uncommon for pastor’s kids.” (19:55–20:09)

• Anchoring Values Over Beliefs (21:26–23:53)

  • Dr. Delony shares his own marital experience. “Our value is... there is something bigger than us out here. ...But believing different things, right?... Performance is a really eloquent way of saying dishonest.” (23:25–23:53)
  • Performance masks real identity, leading to exhaustion and hurt.

• On Selective Honesty: “You don’t have to answer questions you aren’t asked” (24:11–24:12)

  • “It is not dishonest to not answer questions that you’re not asked... You can be in the presence of people who are saying things you don’t agree with and still be fully you.” (24:12)

• Practical Compassion and Boundaries (25:55–28:46)

  • “You can own the way you’re hospitable in your answer... I’m in a season of just wrestling with all of [my beliefs] right now.” (26:51–27:33)
  • Suggests showing dignity and honor—even when beliefs diverge sharply.
  • “There’s a scripture: Faith is a gift. I didn’t get that... I’m jealous of people who are just like, this is it, period.” (28:24–28:43)

• Anxiety of Performing and Internal Safety (28:46–32:24)

  • “You are already future imagining conversations with your in-laws that might happen... That’s anxiety, that’s exhausting and that’s anchored in a guy that is unsafe inside his own skin.” (29:44)
  • Dr. Delony gifts Eli his book and urges him and his fiancé to “anchor into shared values, not beliefs” (32:03) and predicts beliefs will change as life progresses.

Notable Quotes

• “The longer you perform, the more people, including yourself, get hurt. Performance is a really eloquent way of saying dishonest.” (23:25)
• “Why do I feel so unworthy of just having thoughts inside my own body?” (29:49)

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Segment 3: Taking Ownership of Imposter Syndrome After Rapid Success

Caller: Ken from Wichita, KS

Main Theme: How to process feelings of unworthiness and nervousness when outpacing your own expectations.

Key Points & Insights

• Caller Success and Self-doubt (33:10–35:29)

  • Ken’s cattle hoof trimming business has grown fivefold; social media success brings requests and invitations he never imagined.
  • “I feel like I don’t deserve all the recognition I’m getting... I know where it comes from – my father never told me he was proud of me.” (34:28–35:29)

• Identity Shift and Internalized Limits (35:39–36:29)

  • Dr. Delony identifies Ken as experiencing an “identity shift.” “You have an identity shift that's happening. ...Suddenly you become a ‘they’ — that’s unsettling.”

• Imposter Syndrome Reframed (37:09–37:27)

  • “Imposter syndrome is the fear that other people are judging you as harshly as you judge yourself.” (37:09)
  • Dr. Delony coaches Ken to write himself a letter of pride, possibly to share with his wife.

• Skill Recognition and Growth Mindset (39:13–40:11)

  • Sometimes imposter syndrome is telling you the truth about areas you need to grow or get help: “Sometimes imposter syndrome is right... I am not skilled at scaling a business. I have never hired and fired people well.” (39:13–39:28)

• Authenticity over Performance (41:29–44:06)

  • “If you create any sort of false avatar... all your energy will go towards propping up that avatar, not to getting good at your craft.” (41:29)
  • Advice: Stay true to your passion and skills; admit what you don’t know; learn as you go.

Notable Quotes

• “None of us have a psychology for this world... No human has the wiring inside their body to be viewed by millions of people.” (43:11–43:16)
• “Let that feeling of imposter syndrome — if you’re judging yourself, stop... If that imposter syndrome is saying, ‘we need to learn some things,’ sweet. Now we have a roadmap.” (44:49)

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Segment 4: Building Male Friendship – Adult Nerf Wars and “Pigtails & Pints”

Caller: Kelly

Main Theme: Breaking the stigma and awkwardness of adult male friendships by taking initiative, being “weird,” and leveraging creative community-building.

Key Points & Moments

• Creative Ideas for Men’s Social Connection (49:00–52:01)

  • Stories include an apartment Nerf war and a Facebook dad group event “Pigtails and Pints”— dads learning to braid their daughters’ hair over beers.
  • Dr. Delony celebrates weirdness and vulnerability: “It’s like a perfect visualization of ‘go first and be weird.’” (50:04)
  • “If it doesn’t exist, create it.” (52:01)

• Reflections on Parenting, Support, and Gender Roles (52:01–53:37)

  • Delony and Kelly discuss the gendered imbalance in new-parent support networks and the need for dad “boot camps.”
  • “If dads would show up and help new dads, it would alleviate a ton of this stuff.” (52:01)
  • Dr. Delony shares a personal story about feeling left out of parental ‘support subcultures.’

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Episode Highlights at a Glance

• Parent-Child Estrangement & Repair: Sincere, decade-long work, consistent presence, and accepting a “long road.”
• Faith and Family Authenticity: Values over beliefs, honest limits, boundaries; you can be yourself quietly.
• Imposter Syndrome: Discomfort is normal; own your story, keep learning, stay authentic.
• Building Adult Friendships: Be willing to go first, be “weird,” create your own community if needed.

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Most Memorable Quotes

• “You're now aiming for a relationship with your 25 year old son, not your 16. …You have to simply just keep showing up for the next 10 years.” — Dr. Delony (03:12–03:43)
• “Performance is a really eloquent way of saying dishonest.” — Dr. Delony (23:25)
• “Imposter syndrome is the fear that other people are judging you as harshly as you judge yourself.” — Dr. Delony (37:09)
• “Go first and be weird.” — Dr. Delony (50:04)

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Key Timestamps

• Estranged Mother & Son: 00:05–13:00
• Integrity vs. Belonging / Faith: 15:08–32:24
• Imposter Syndrome After Business Success: 33:10–44:49
• Friendship and Community Ideas for Men: 49:00–53:37

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Tone and Approach

The discussions are candid, compassionate, and direct, infused with Dr. Delony’s mixture of warmth, humor, and realism. Callers are met where they are—with their pain, confusion, or skepticism—and encouraged to take brave, practical steps in the direction of healing, authenticity, and connection.

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For listeners facing heartbreak, questioning their belonging, or feeling fraudulent in their own success—this episode offers both hard truths and actionable hope.

Transcript

[Caller (Mother)]

I had an affair and I have a 16 year old son and my relationship with him is not good. It feels like someone has died.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, they have. I'm assuming during moments of clarity you've sat down and said, I was wrong, I blew this thing up and I'm sorry that I blew your life up. Yo, what's up? What's up? This is Jon on with the Dr. John DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls, real people going through real challenges. I'm a real person, I'm a real boy. And we are taking your calls on what's going on in your marriages and your mental and emotional health with kids, family life, everything. You want to be on the show, go to john deloney.com ask and please take 30 seconds really quick, really quick and hit the subscribe button whether you're watching this on YouTube or you are listening on your favorite podcast player. All right, let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Dale. Hey Dale, what's going on?

[Caller (Mother)]

Hey, Dr. John, how are you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, how about you?

[Caller (Mother)]

I'm doing good, thank you. It's an honor to speak with you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's an honor to talk to you. What's going on?

[Caller (Mother)]

Thank you. Well, I've listened to your show for years and always respected your advice and just thought I would, I would write in with my, with my issue and see if you had any words of, words of advice for me. About two years ago I got divorced. I had an affair and I have a 16 year old son and my relationship with him is not good. He is extremely hurt as I can understand from what I did. And we really don't have a relationship at all. I have legal joint custody of him with my ex, but he has never spent the night with me. He rarely communicates with me. I'll go weeks at a time without seeing him and it's just been really hard. I just, I don't know what to do. I've gone to, gone to counseling and you know, they pretty much just said just give it time. He's in a really hard age and this is just going to take time. Yeah, but that's really hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't. I'm so in love with my 10 year old daughter.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm so in love with my 15 year old son. I can't imagine being in a place where they either one of them said, I refuse to see you.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah, it feels like someone has died.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, they have.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, what, what was your relationship with them? Has Died. Yeah. It's over.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I'm assuming during moments of clarity, you've sat down and said, I was wrong, I blew this thing up and I'm

[Caller (Eli)]

sorry that I blew your life up over and over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right.

[Caller (Mother)]

I've written. I've written, you know, a couple of letters.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller (Mother)]

I've owned my mistakes. I mean, I've. I've done about all I know to do at this point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So here's the hard, terrifying reality that you face. Okay. And it's just going to take something that very few people have. And you're now aiming for a relationship with your 25 year old son, not your 16. And what that means is you have to simply just keep showing up for the next 10 years.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm going to write him a letter once a week.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And knowing he may not read it, I'm going to send him a text message twice a day.

[Caller (Mother)]

I do that. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, but here's what we're looking for. We're looking for a decade worth of evidence that my mom's character is complicated. And one time she did a really bad thing that had a really negative effect on me. And I have a decade's worth of evidence that she's a person who owned her mistakes. And she's a pretty amazing person. She never stopped coming for me. And that will be exhausting and tireless and heartbreaking. And here I'm just gonna be super honest. It may not work because I don't know what he's getting fed by his dad.

[Caller (Mother)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I want there to be evidence I never stopped coming for you.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And however that looks like for y'. All.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can't buy your way back.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah. He plays baseball. So I, I make sure to show up at every. Every game. I do everything I can to show up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that all, all you can do at this point is to continue to show up.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And to continue the invites, even if you know he's going to say no.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you still with the person you had the affair with?

[Caller (Mother)]

I am not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right. And also, here's another tension. Anytime he has a feeling of I miss my mom or I just want to hug my mom, I just want to go home. There will be a hot burning fire of disloyalty against his dad when he feels like that.

[Caller (Mother)]

That makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so know this, that every time he does say yes to you, he's doing that at the expense, and this sounds strange of his 16 year old conscience, which is I'm being Unloyal to my father.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah. And I know that's a lot of emotion to process for a 16 year old.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, I can't process that. I'm way older than 16. Right. I mean, I, I, the thought of being disloyal to somebody is such a core value of mine. Like being loyal is such a core value that if I'm doing something that I think is disloyal. Ah, dude, I can't deal with that.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I, I've heard that over and over and over and over from countless teenagers who are going through divorce, which is anything I do. I feel trapped because I miss my dad, I miss my mom. But every time I send a text back, I feel like I just, I was disloyal behind my dad's back. Right.

[Caller (Mother)]

I hadn't, hadn't really thought about it like that before.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so if you think about this way, it might be that he doesn't want to be around you right now, but it might be. And this sounds crazy. He can't be because it's such a conundrum, like a con, a conundrum of consciousness that he's found himself in. Yeah. And so I, I, as an adult who loves him, I'm going to do my best to not put him in those conundrums.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I'm gonna damn sure let you know every opportunity I can that I kept showing up and I kept showing up and I kept showing up.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He will have no evidence to the contrary that mom is in his biggest fan.

[Caller (Mother)]

He won't. I'll, I can absolutely do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's going to be hollow for a long time.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I can't even imagine the amount of hurt.

[Caller (Mother)]

Well, and you know, the guilt from it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course.

[Caller (Mother)]

Of course. It's a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller (Mother)]

One day at a time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. One minute time.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yes. That is, that is very true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does healing look like for you?

[Caller (Mother)]

Now?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We talk a lot on the show about, like, what do I do when somebody else does something to me? We, I don't think we spend enough time wrestling with, like, what if the pain in our life is because we did a thing?

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah.

[Caller (Mother)]

Well, my fate has grown a lot. I find a lot of peace in that. I do have a wonderful group of friends and a wonderful family who have done nothing but support me for the last two years. I have a little dog that I love. I have a wonderful job. I'm just, I wake up every day and remember what all I have to be thankful for. And I thank God, multiple times a day for all of my blessings. When I first left, you know, I prayed that my son would change his mind, that he would come back to me. And I've stopped praying that specific prayer. And I've just said, God, your will be done. You know, if your will is for him to open his heart towards me, that your will be done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I challenge you on that?

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What if you shifted your mindset, your. Your prayers the way you see it as give me opportunities to love him well.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And dear God, please help that he knows he is loved.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What I don't want to do is. And again, I know this is in the, in scripture, not. But like your will be done has a. I'm taking my hand. I'm just. I'm parking the car now.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah. Versus I can see that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to make paths clear for me on where I can show up. And so like, taken out of this context, because I know this one's raw. Like I'm not going to pray a prayer of there's so many home hungry people in my community. Your will be done.

[Caller (Mother)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not. That's not my prayer. My prayer is help me to, with. To have eyes that see

[Caller (Mother)]

and hands that can do something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And help me have the discipline not to blow all my money on stupid stuff so I can be of service and of care and love to people in my neighborhood. Like, that's the prayer.

[Caller (Mother)]

It's. It's an action.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's an action. And if you pray for help my son feel loved, it might be that's where you begin to let go of. He doesn't feel loved when I keep harassing him to come stay at my house. He's already told me no, but he'll feel loved when I say I'm inviting you. No pressure to come. I miss you and I hope you're having a great weekend.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't ever want him to feel like he has to take care of you.

[Caller (Mother)]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because he's 16.

[Caller (Mother)]

No. That's not his place. Not his job.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. There we go. It's awesome.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Day at a time.

[Caller (Mother)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you know what might be crazy? Write a letter to 25 year old him and write him a letter about now.

[Caller (Mother)]

Or just hold it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, write it right now.

[Caller (Mother)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And don't send it to him. But in that letter detail what you did so that he would know his mama was always coming for him. And maybe when he's 25, you can hand it to him. But I want it. It can Almost be a road map for you to follow over the next, I don't know, 5, 10, however long, how many years be a road map there that you can follow. I keep. I'm gonna write him a letter every week. I'm gonna send him the Starbucks thing on his till account every week. I'm gonna fill in the blank. I'm going to be at every baseball game I can be at. And when I go up to the dugout to walk by and say, hey, I love you, and he rolls his eyes at me. Hopefully his dad will say, we don't do that. But I'm going to tell him I love him again the next time. And when he says, one day, I don't want to have any contact with you, so I'm going to honor that I love you and I'm going to write him a letter every day and just not mail it so that if contact is ever restored, I can say, hey, I wrote you a letter every week for the last four years when we weren't talking. I want you to know I never stopped thinking about you. Is a lonely, lonely place to be. I think it's the right step for a mom who wants to make sure her son knows you're always loved. All right, when we come back, a man asks how to live with integrity when being honest about his faith may cost him relationships. I just got back home from an amazing elk hunting trip in the mountains of New Mexico. I was with my son and some other men and their sons, and all of us were using Montana Knife Company knives for the duration of our trip. Why? Because Montana Knife Company Knives rule. They are designed and tested and built right here in the United States of America by real hunters. And when we all got back to our hunting camp and when we got back home, we used Montana Knife Company kitchen knives to cook and eat and prepare our meals. Why? Because they're also amazing. They're razor sharp right out of the box. They're tough enough to be used every day, and I love them. But here's what really sells me on Montana Knife Company knives. They stand behind their work for life. When your knives need sharpening, or if they ever need to be repaired, you just send them back to Montana Knife Company and they will take care of everything. These are the kind of knives your grandkids are going to fight over someday. If you're looking for knives that are built to work and built to last, go to montanaknifecompany.com and see what's available. Right now, that's montanaknifecompanya.com I've been talking about how much I love poncho shirts for years. If you've seen me on stages or around town anywhere, you've probably seen me wearing poncho shirts. And now I'm seeing them on members of my audience. I just did a big live event. Lots of people showed up wearing poncho shirts. Even my co workers are wearing poncho shirts and everybody's hitting me up for free poncho shirts. Why? Because they're the best men's performance shirts anywhere. Head to poncho outdoors.com DeLoney right now to get yours. I want to talk about a few of their shirts real quick. Poncho denim has that soft, broken in feel with a little stretch, like you've worn it over and over and over again, but it still looks and feels awesome. And poncho flannels come in original or western styles, slim or regular fit, and they're guaranteed to be the softest shirts you own. And even though they're soft, somehow they're also tough and super comfortable. Head to poncho outdoors.com DeLoney and get 10 bucks off your first order when you sign up with your email. Again, that's poncho outdoors.com DeLoney for 10 bucks off your entire order. Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona. Talk to Eli. What's up, Eli?

[Caller (Eli)]

Hi.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up, brother?

[Caller (Eli)]

Thanks so much for taking my call and giving me some time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course, man. Thanks for calling in. What's up?

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't have a great way of wording my question. Every time I try and write it out, it feels a little bit like too specific to one thing. But I think a general way to start would be I feel a conflict in my situation between my desire to have integrity and my desire to maintain relationship.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Whoa. I would say this. Any relationship that cost you your integrity is not a relationship worth holding on to.

[Caller (Eli)]

Sure. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I'll also say this before you even go in, I'm going to ask you details because I want to put a caveat to that.

[Caller (Eli)]

Okay,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

you know what? No, I'm not. I'm just gonna keep. I'm gonna keep moving forward. So go ahead. What are you struggling with, man?

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah, well, so I'll give a little bit of a background and I might ramble. So you feel free to stop me anytime, dude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm the chief rambler, brother. We'll ramble on together. Go for it.

[Caller (Eli)]

Cool. Yeah. So I was raised Christian and my dad was a Pastor of like a non, non denominational evangelical church. And growing up, me and my family were super involved. You know, all the way through high school, I was super involved. Anyways, while I was off in college, I went through some kind of church hurt. And also just a lot of like, experiences that were new and came to the conclusion that I was better described as an agnostic. But I didn't like, really identify that way to my family. I was kind of, you know, just like, not explicitly lying to them, but also not like outwardly telling them, you know, or standing up and saying things that would be super uncomfortable for me. And so, you know, when topics of religion or things like that came up, I just kind of like, you know, said like, or, you know, like nodded along. And then fast forward, you know, at the end of college and going into my first year of like, being professional, I just really struggled to like, connect meaningfully with people, whether that be like, deep friendships or any like, meaningful dating relationships. And so then fast forward again. About a year and a half after college, I reconnected with a childhood friend of mine from my hometown and I fell in love. And this was like the first meaningful relationship I felt in a really long time. And so I pursued it. And she is a Christian. And so I kind of pursued. I chose relationship, or the way I think about it is I chose relationship over holding two fast to my, like, you know, holding on to my beliefs too tightly. So I started going to church again and, you know, was in a small group and didn't really hold back. Questions and such. Fast forward again. Just over a month ago, we got engaged. And ever since then I've just been feeling a lot of like, stress and heavy introspection about my values and beliefs and where they might differ from my family and my faith community and her family. And I don't really know how to navigate that because, you know, I think there's a lot of really complex ideas or like, you know, things I don't understand about faith and that I think a lot of people in history don't understand. And like, I read about those and they don't necessarily just like, make sense all of a sudden. But then I also don't want to just like, hide in the face of some big, like, life decisions or, you know, like a wedding day type, you know, who I present myself to be to my future family and everything. So,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

man, there's so much here. The question that keeps, like, I'm trying to sort, like whenever somebody tells me their story, I'm trying to find A through line. Okay. Trying to hear your story and hear how you're saying it. And what's the story behind the story? Behind the story. The question that keeps rising up to the surface for me is this one. And it's kind of happening over and over again. Okay.

[Caller (Eli)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why don't you, like you.

[Caller (Eli)]

I think I. I don't know. I. So I've listened to your show and I've heard that question a few times. And every time I hear it, I'm like, I kind of ask that question myself. And I. I think I do like parts of me a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know, but that's not what I'm asking. You think something is fundamentally wrong with you, which, by the way, this is hard to hear. It's not uncommon for pastors, kids.

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah. Yeah. I think. I don't know because I feel like, well, maybe I don't feel confidence in myself because then I would be more willing to say that to other people. But like, I don't know, I have so many people around me that like, treat certain things as kind of obvious. Right. Like in relationship to faith, and they just aren't to me. And so it's really, like, strange though, to find people that. Or it's really hard to find people that don't want to just like, give you an answer. Because, you know, the people I talk to about my faith that are Christian often want to, like, you know, I don't often feel a sense that they want to walk alongside me in it. They want to, like, correct me. And then on the other side, like when I talk to a more non Christian or like someone who does kind of see things similar to some of the ways that I do, then they kind of just don't care. They're like, well, like, just, yeah, but move on with it, you know? And I'm like, well, I don't feel like either of those fully represent what I'm thinking through, you know?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. And all of that is characteristic of somebody who spent their life performing.

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And at some point your avatar runs out of gas. Because your body is still solving for reality all the time, regardless of what mask you're putting on. And I could tell you how me and my wife have solved this in our house and how I've dealt with it. Okay. Because I'm exactly where you are. I have my beliefs and I hold them very loosely because if one through line in my own life has been, I believe things and I'm wrong a lot. Right. And yeah, but I'm pretty anchored into My values. And so my wife and I anchor into values. It is not that one of our values together is not. We're going to believe the same thing always. In fact, I don't want that kind of marriage. It's a boring life. But our value is, for me and my wife, there is something bigger than us out here. And so we. A value we share is we're going to continue to pursue that with everything we got. And so we're anchored into the same value. And over the course of my 23 and a half years of being married, I've been super Christian, I've been an atheist. I've been a full, like, Calvinist for a decade. I've been a, like, I've been all over the place. But the, the guy she married was a guy who was always seeking. And it would be a violation of our values if I threw my hands up and quit.

[Caller (Eli)]

Sure, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But believing different things, right? If she said, here is a value that we will have the same belief on this thing, our relationship never would have worked. But the challenge you're going to run into is the longer you perform, the more people, including yourself, get hurt. Because really, performance is a really eloquent way of saying dishonest.

[Caller (Eli)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And can I add one more caveat to that? It is not dishonest. And this is a weird cultural thing that's been going on for about a decade. It is not dishonest to not. To not answer questions that you're not asked.

[Caller (Eli)]

Right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so people are like, I just need to be my true self. And every time I walk in and my family's talking about thing, I have to insert my. Insert religious or like, sexual orientation or like, political. You don't, you don't have to. You can be in the presence of people who are saying things you don't agree with and still be fully you. And you can still love those folks, still care deeply, still show up for them in the middle of the night when they need you and not hang out with them every day. There can be certain conversations. I have family members that we have a moratorium. We don't talk about certain things because we love each other and we're invested in each other. And that always gets nuclear. And that's not us not being our true full selves. It's us being wise about our relationship.

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah, yeah. I think that does resonate true with me. The like. But then situations come up in my head where I'm like, you know, I, for example, my fiance's family is also very Christian and I just think about, like, okay, if we were at, like, a dinner table someday, and they. Or like, honestly, if right now we were all sitting at a dinner table and they asked me a question about some, you know, very foundational Christian thing, I just know my fiance's, like, stress level would go to, like, a thousand. Because I talk with her very openly and honestly, and, like, she knows what I think, but her family doesn't necessarily know that. And so, like, I don't know how to, like, love her in that moment without just, like, you know, you can't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can't own the feelings in her chest. You could own the way you were hospitable in your answer. Right. So if they put you in a situation that, you know, like, it. It. Like, let's take it out of this context. One day she can come to you and say, do I look good in this dress? And you can go, nope, you're too fat. You could say it like that, and that would be cruel and insensitive, and it might also be the truth. Or you could say, I like the other dress so much better. Or you could wink at her and say, would you wear that dress that I love? And she would know exactly what you're saying. But that would be. In a way, you'd be saying the same truth in a way that honors her. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And respects her dignity. And so when you're sitting at a table surrounded by people who believe differently than you, which has been the majority of my life. Right. I'm sitting table, and someone says, what do you think about fill in the blank religious story? You could say, I actually don't believe that at all. And people who believe that are crazy, I think. Or you can say, I. I am in a season of just wrestling with all of it right now. And I'm really honored to be around folks who have a pretty secure attachment to some of these ideas because it helps me feel a little less crazy. Right?

[Caller (Eli)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's just being kind. I'm not going to blow up your dinner. I'm not going to blow up your life. I'm not going to send you. And here's the thing. I've. I've come to have a deep compassion for folks who are highly religious on any spectrum, because. And those who, quote, unquote, like you said, try to fix me or solve me, I actually have a lot of respect for that. Because if they think that me being wrong is going to cost me eternity, thank God they feel courageous enough to speak up and try to save me. I have compassion for that.

[Caller (Eli)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I get to decide with what I do with their responses. Do I let them shame me? Do I send me off on a whole quest of oh my gosh, or do I say, my God, thank you for shoving me out of the truck that you feel like is coming right at me? I'm really grateful for that.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then I'm going about my day. And there, like you, you know this, There's a scripture, it says faith is a gift. I didn't get that. I didn't get that gift. And I'm actually jealous of people who are just like, this is it, period, innocence. I'm jealous of folks. Like, I really am. I wish I had that.

[Caller (Eli)]

Me too. I feel that exact same thing, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm not any better that I ask hard questions and then I can pick apart people's answers and, But I'm not. And I've also had to follow, like I came to this backwards. I came to this through the social science data, which was like, the rhythm of getting up and going to church is good for you and for your family. And so I literally started going back to church not to like quote unquote, find God. I went back to church because I was like, okay, this is a healthy activity I could be a part of. And of course, being around good people, listening to the messages, having some concrete thoughts and getting wiser. As I got older, I landed back as a different version of a guy who believes in Jesus. But I, I, that that took me not throwing the baby out with the bath water and me not going after people for trying to love me the best way they knew how, even if it was annoying or even if I didn't agree with the way they were trying to love me. And again, this is, this is you just owning what you can control. But I'll tell you this, as a kid who grew up in a performing house, you're constantly gauging what could happen, what questions could be asked and how is the response to this question going to be taken? How is this outfit in this environment? How is you being seen at this movie? How's that going to impact this in dad's job? And what you're doing is you're already future imagining conversations with your in laws that might happen that might do that. And I'm going to tell you, that's anxiety, that's exhausting and that's anchored in a guy that is unsafe inside his own skin. And that is what I want you to begin focusing on not how you play whack a mole with everybody else's, everything else. But why do I feel so unworthy of just having thoughts inside my own body? Why do I feel so unworthy of what I have to feel like I'm deceiving everybody. I want you to work on that from the inside out. I'm going to send you a copy of Building an Unanxious Life. It'll be my gift to you and hook you up as you're heading into your new marriage. I want you to a sit down with your wife and come up with a set of four or five or six values that y' all will anchor into not beliefs values and expect your beliefs to change over time. That's why we listen to podcasts, why we read books. That's why we go to conferences. That's why we go to church. If you go to church, it's why you, like, do, like, have conversations so that we can get new perspectives and new ideas that might change our beliefs over time, but we're going to stay anchored into our values. I think you're actually in a good spot, brother, especially if you're being fully open and honest with your wife. You're not trying to pull the wool over her. And then you and y' all two together can create a life where if I get these questions, here's I'm going to ask it. And if people don't like my answers, they get to choose what they do next. But I can't be responsible for that. But I will be responsible for treating people with dignity and respect and kindness all the time. Thanks for the call, my brother. Great, great, great question. We come back, a man asks how he can overcome imposter syndrome after gaining success in his business. Hey, what's up? It's Deloney. So we're in the middle of Lent right now, and whether you grew up with that tradition or you're just trying to get your head and your heart back on straight this season, there's something I want you to check out. It's called Hallow. It's the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world. And it's become one of my most important things that I do to start my day. Anchoring my day in prayer helps me slow down and prioritize what matters most before the world swallows me up. And right now, we're in the middle of Hallow's Lent Pray, 40 challenge. And if you've given something up and you're barely hanging on, or if you want to learn what this whole lent thing is all about. This challenge is for you. Hallow is loaded with daily reflections, scripture, music, and more and more special series to help you anchor your faith practice. You can try Hallow for free for 3 months using my link. Go to hallow.com deloney and sign up for free today. That's Hallow H A l l o w.com DeLoney for three months for free. All right, Wichita, Kansas. Let's go out and talk to Ken. What's up, Ken?

[Caller (Ken)]

Hi, Dr. John. How are you today?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good, my brother. How are you?

[Caller (Ken)]

Well, in Dave's words, I'm better than I deserve.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I love it. What's going on, ma'? Am?

[Caller (Ken)]

Hey, my. Here's my question for today. How do I get past the sometimes overwhelming feeling of imposter syndrome as my business has grown four to five times faster than my original projections?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so, hey, congratulations. What's your business?

[Caller (Ken)]

So I'm a hoof trimmer for cattle. And I specifically do. I specifically work on smaller hobby farms and homesteads and. And projects that that other people don't want to do. And I never dreamed I'd be as busy as I am.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amazing. Hey, I don't spend a lot of time on Instagram, but one of our two of the accounts I follow are actually hoof repair guys.

[Caller (Eli)]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What you guys do guys do is amazing to me. It's unbelievable.

[Caller (Eli)]

I love it.

[Caller (Ken)]

I absolutely love it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, that. Dude, that's awesome. So I have a couple of thoughts about imposter syndrome, but I don't want to put words into your mouth. So when you say I feel imposter syndrome, like, be pretty specific with me. What are you feeling? What are you experiencing?

[Caller (Ken)]

So as I go to these places, what I feel, and especially on social media, I feel like I don't deserve all the recognition I'm getting. For instance, I can post something on social media and it will absolutely explode. And then I'm getting overwhelmed with requests for service and stuff like that. I am being asked and invited to be on podcasts all over the country. I'm invited to a bunch of conferences all over the country to speak on and educate people about. About what I'm doing and how it works and what to look for and all that stuff. And they just get this feeling sometimes that. That I don't deserve it. Intellectually, I know where it comes from. My father is not exactly. He's a great guy, don't get me wrong. He's not your average lovey dovey guy. He. He's never told me he's proud of me.

[Caller (Eli)]

He's.

[Caller (Ken)]

One time in my life he's told me he loved me. Like, intellectually, I know where it comes from. I just don't know how to get past it, actually.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wonder if it's a step, a layer deeper.

[Caller (Eli)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you grow up in a house where those people were the ones that drove those cars, lived in those houses and did those things?

[Caller (Ken)]

For sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And so you have an identity shift that's happening.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's hard to wrap your head around a psychology when those people. And anytime we say the word they, I want everybody to be careful with that kind of language. But when you spend your whole life thinking they are, fill in the blank and you create stories about they, and then suddenly you become a they that's on. It's on. It'll unspool you pretty quick, right?

[Caller (Ken)]

It's very.

[Caller (Eli)]

It's.

[Caller (Ken)]

It's like walking on eggshells and not knowing what you're stepping on. I just. It's hard to wrap your head around.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Which, as you said, intellectually, you know, that comes from a boy who's always wondering, dad, you like me now? Dad, do you like me now?

[Caller (Ken)]

Right. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And when a whole bunch of eyeballs turn on you real fast, you suddenly, if you're not careful, you can feel like you have a whole bunch of dads that you're trying to keep. Keep happy, Right? And you can't keep the Internets happy, right? You can't. You can't keep the people at every conference happy.

[Caller (Eli)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I. I'll give you two pieces of two, Two pieces of. Of Just. Here's my own experience with this, because I had a very similar thing. I just took the thing I was doing behind closed doors, and then they put it on the Internet and my whole life changed.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thing number one is imposter syndrome. I love a definition. It was somebody out of the UK that gave us definition. I forgot her name, but I love it. It was. Imposter syndrome is the fear that other people are judging you as harshly as you judge yourself.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if that's the case, I want you to write yourself a long letter, okay? And if you have never been told that you. That somebody was proud of you, I want you for the first time to tell yourself that I'm proud of you. And if you want to be a gangster about it, read this letter out loud to your wife.

[Caller (Ken)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I want you to call out in yourself the things that you are proud that you've overcome that. You are continuing to do the way you got into this job to help other people. You started a small business doing it what I think every small business owner should start, which is not what do you want to do, but what does the world need that nobody else is willing to do? And that's what you did.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And man. And you must be also doing it in an enjoyable, entertaining, like, connected way because people want to connect with you, right? Not just over your trade.

[Caller (Ken)]

Oh, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's an experience. When we show up, we do consulting work. We do amazing whole herd consulting type stuff. Like when we, When I show up at your place, I'm there for. Even if we're only working on one or two cows, I'm there for half a day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's great. It's great. All right, so here, and here's. Here's the thing about imposter syndrome. Sometimes it's right and you have to have the humility that when everybody's telling you how great you are and every metric you have is saying it's up and to the right, it's. Everything's growing, growing, growing. You have to have either a, know this for yourself, which is very hard, or have a couple of men and women in your life that you trust to say, okay, I'm really good at these things. I am not good at scaling a business.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not. Or maybe I'm not skilled at. I'm really great at fixing hooves on cows. I'm really an expert in helping people with their herd management. I have never hired and fired people well in my life.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not good with books. And so sometimes imposter syndrome is right. It's your body saying, hey, what? We are way over our skis on this deal. And it's why to this day, I still have experts in nutrition, mental health, trauma, exercise that I reach out to. Because I, early on, I just started answering questions and I had some folks tell me like, hey, you're wrong on this deal. And so I've had to settle in. I don't fully understand how the Internet's work. And so I trust the experts here at the studios where I work to say, hey, this is the path we need to go on this one.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right? And it's, and it's also the overwhelming feeling of trying to get systems in place as you're growing this fast.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's exactly right. You're like trying to change the oil on the car while you're Driving, Right, right.

[Caller (Ken)]

That's exactly right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you don't take 72 hours and get around some wisdom, some folks in your life that can help you with those systems, you're gonna get a lot more car wrecks than you would otherwise.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right, right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then here's the last piece of wisdom I'll give you. And this is for people in your space who just suddenly were doing a job and now it's on the Internet and now people are asking you to like it works there. But I think I just was talking to somebody before the show on my way into work this morning who is not a, what I would call a public facing Persona. And this is advice my wife gave me. If you create any sort of false avatar, if you create any sort of goo goo, this is me. Hey guys. Whether you're meeting somebody for the first time, you're dating, or you are starting a business, or you are suddenly a public figure, all of your energy will go towards propping up that avatar, not to getting good at your craft and continuing to grow your business.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And eventually the avatar fails.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right. I was told a long time ago, you never have to. If you never tell a lie, you never have to remember the lie you told.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So just expand that too. If I am a person who doesn't, doesn't. I don't believe in God. I am not going to start going on Christian podcasts and making up stories to try to be adjacent just so I can get clicks.

[Caller (Eli)]

Right?

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If I'm a person who believes in amp grazing. Right. Like the carbon cowboys. If I believe in regenerative. Regenerative. I say that wrong. Cattle farming practices. I'm not gonna go on, on podcast talking about how we need to spray more.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm just gonna be the best I can at being me.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the chips are going to fall where they may on that one.

[Caller (Eli)]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's way less exhausting.

[Caller (Ken)]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that means you're gonna have to say crazy things like, I don't know.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or a close friend of mine is an amazing. I think, I think she's a really gifted, amazing comedian and she has paralyzing stage fright so that when she gets us, like, gets an opportunity to, to go do a set somewhere, it cost her a week of her life. And so that's her body saying, hey, not for us.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you have to have the courage to say, I love this part. I love this part. I don't love the public speaking part. So I'm not going to do that.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or I do love the public speaking part. You know, whatever.

[Caller (Ken)]

I don't. I don't mind it so much. It's just. Like I said, it's just getting over this I don't belong here mentality.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

None of us do. None of us have a psychology for this world.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No human has the wiring inside their body to be viewed by millions of people. That's. That is not. That's abnormal for the bodies we have.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, Right. If you're like, this is uncomfortable at some point. Yes. What we're doing is insane.

[Caller (Eli)]

Right, Right.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right. It's crazy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so then. Then if we're going to enter into this thing, I got to be responsible for. How do I stay well when I'm doing this? What are the systems I have in place to keep my relationships that I care about safe? And how do I take care of my physical body? How do I keep learning? How do I keep things with open hand? How do I deal when somebody says, hey, you're wrong on this in a loving way? And how do I deal when somebody just bombs you with I hate you and you're an idiot and blah, blah, blah.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right, right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I would. I would tell you this. The discomfort you feel is. Doesn't mean something's wrong with you.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right, right. I get that. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And like, you would tell any cattle owner who's got a cow who's limping, like, well, that's telling us where we need to press. Spend some time by yourself. Take a half day, dude.

[Caller (Ken)]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And write down on a piece of yellow. On a yellow pad, a piece of paper. Here are the things that scare me about moving forward. Here are the things I'm really excited about. Here are the things I'm kind of blah about. And here's the things I need to get some more skills on.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right. Okay. And by the way, I can definitely do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it'll just free you, give you a path forward.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's kind of like when you're examining the foot of a cow. You squeeze here, you press here, you go up the leg here, and then you go. Okay, I know exactly what. Where to go now.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you might be good at something now. And as you're entering into a new space, you realize I need more skills.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's a. There's a hilarious story that happened here. There was a small group of people that knew I was going to leave my job at the university to come over here, but they had me speak at one last event. And you've probably Done enough public speaking now to know, like, I knew about five minutes in, I was crushing it.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It. It ended in a big standing ovation. A guy who's become a close friend of mine, big Navy seal, comes bombing out of the crowd, picks me up, hugs me. It was a whole thing. It was amazing.

[Caller (Ken)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Backstage, my new boss, Dave Ramsey says, man, you have some really raw, great, raw skills. We're going to turn you into a world class speaker. And the standing ovation was still going on, right? And I looked at him and I laughed and I go, I think I'm pretty good. And he smiled and goes, we're gonna get you there. Okay? And here's the thing. A year later, I was speaking to 2500 or 3000 business leaders at a big event. And about halfway through that talk, I was like, oh, this is a whole other level. But I'd had a year of speech coaching, of training, of watching film, for crying out loud.

[Caller (Ken)]

Right, right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I was good at a thing, but I had to put in years. And I'm still doing. That's why I go to comedy clubs now. I'm still trying to get better at it. Like, I have to put in the work to not be good at this thing anymore, but to be great at this thing. If I'm going to ask somebody to pay money to listen to me, if I'm going to ask, pay someone to get a babysitter and to leave their home and to come out and see me live somewhere, dude, I. I better be a good steward of their time and their money. I better be amazing. I don't ever want someone to leave an event, going home and being like, man, I probably should have just stayed at home. Watch Netflix. That means I gotta put the work right. So you might find I got some good skills. I gotta get really good at these skills. And as you're gonna get tempted to get pulled into veterinarian medicine and like, you're like, nope, I'm gonna stay doing this thing because this is what I'm really good at. And that's been hard for me. I've had to. I've had to circle back. So all I have to say is, I think you're in the right place, man. Let that feeling of imposter syndrome, hey, if you're judging yourself, stop, man. Write yourself a letter. Make peace with yourself. I'm proud of you. You tell yourself you're proud of you. And if that imposter syndrome is saying like, hey, we got some things we need to learn, sweet now we have a road map and that's where we're going to head directly into. Thanks for call, brother. Last night I took Beam's Dream Powder before I went to bed and I got a hundred on my sleep score. And that's why I trust Beam. It's why I use their products in my home. It's why I take them because they're amazing. When I need a great night's sleep, I drink Beam's Dream Powder. It takes like 30 seconds to mix and it helps me fall asleep faster, sleep deeper, and wake up clear. Last night was incredible. And I woke up this morning with no grogginess because there's no weird chemicals. There's just science backed ingredients that will work with your body, not against it, like magnesium, L theanine, melatonin and Rishi and more. Comes in great flavors like sea salt, caramel and cinnamon cocoa. So good. And with my kids, we use Beams Kids super powder. It's packed with vitamins. And here's the important thing, my kids actually like it. If you're a parent, you know this matters. A great day starts the night before and Beams Dream Powder helps me rest and show up well for the people that I love. Right now, Beam is giving my listeners a great deal. Go to shop beam.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to get 20 off all Beam products. That's shop S-H-O-P shopbeam.com DeLoney and use code DELONEY to get 20 off all Beams products. All right, Kelly, you said you want to talk about men as always.

[Caller (Kelly)]

Yes, but however, two T's. Yes, you are correct. So I saw two things recently on social media that I thought were just super cool because you often talk about how hard it is to make friends as adults, especially for men.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The worst.

[Caller (Kelly)]

Yeah, they don't get out and they're not as social as just all of it. Yes, ladies are. So two things that I thought were super cool that maybe will spark some ideas. So one of them was a guy that moved into a new apartment and it's like one of the internal apartments, not external. And the video that it shows is from his ring camera. And his neighbor came over and he's like, hey, you don't know me. We've never met. But the guy that lived here before you, we would often have Nerf wars. So I'm just gonna put this on your front mat. And then it was just this compilation of all of these grown men that lived in this apartment building having Nerf wars. And this is how they met.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was I. You sent that to me. And I smiled the whole way through it.

[Caller (Kelly)]

It was great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was incredible. Yeah.

[Caller (Kelly)]

It was like these. They just shooting each other and like, out, like one of them would be bringing their groceries in and he'd pull the. The gun. It was like Godfather, you know, pull the gun out of the bag.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But my favorite part of the whole video, the whole. I mean, there's some hilarious things that they do to each other over time, and they're all. It's all ring camera footage. But my favorite part was seeing how uncomfortable the first conversation was, was him knocking on a door. The guy doesn't even open it. He just goes, yeah. And him holding this Nerf gun and trying to be like, I, I. It's like, I know what I'm saying is crazy, but also it was kind of awesome. And so I used to have this Nerf gun war with my neighbor. And so I'm putting this gun on your desk. You can get rid of it. You throw it away, whatever. But if it's kind of awesome. But it's. It's like a perfect visualization of go first and be weird. Just go first and be weird. And what's not on the ring camera is he may have tried that with somebody else and it never went anywhere. Right. The person, like, threw the gun away or whatever. But that him having the courage to wade through that was so awesome. Yeah, I love it.

[Caller (Kelly)]

And so the second one is apparently there's a Facebook group out there called, I don't know, it's like a Dad's Life or something like that. And they did their first in person event. I don't know what city this was in, but it was for dads with little girls. And it was called Pigtails and Pints.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, nice.

[Caller (Kelly)]

And they sat around this huge table and they had these ladies came in and they brought in, like mannequin heads with, you know, wigs on, and they learned how to do hair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, that's so cool.

[Caller (Kelly)]

And it showed the men, like, shaking hands and meeting each other and learning how to French braid and showing off what they did. And it was just so cool. Cause it was meeting each other and getting out there and doing something that they can do with their daughters then so they can bond with their daughters. But what a cool idea. So just the whole idea of there's something out there, I love that. If it doesn't exist, create it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Create it. So I was talking to Sheila yesterday, my wife, about a call we had on a previous show a few Days ago, where a woman was struggling with PTSD and her husband wasn't helpful at all. And there was just a lot of tension. And I was telling my wife, I was like, the only path I could think of is, here's how you can love me. And her immediate response is, that gives her yet another thing to do. And I was like, I know, and I don't know what else. And she said, in a perfect world, that guy has a couple of friends who already have kids, and he can invite them over and say, all right, when their kids screaming, what do I do? And how do I change this diaper? And if dads would show up and help new dads, it would alleviate a ton of this stuff, Right? Because I think there is merit in. There's a lot of merit in a new mom feeling like, oh, I have to take care of you, and I need to come with a curriculum for you on top of everything else. I get that. And I also get the paralyzed feeling of the dad being like, I. I was telling my wife, I remember doing all the laundry. I went and got all the laundry, and I used the wrong detergent because there was a special kid. And it was like, oh, my gosh, you did it wrong. And I was like, I'm trying so hard. I don't even know what I don't know. But all of that can be alleviated if a group of dads would be like, oh, one of our new buddies is having a dad. We're coming over for dad boot camp. You buy the beer and the pizza, and we're going to teach you everything you need to know.

[Caller (Kelly)]

Yeah. Because when a. When a woman has a baby, women rally around her. Her mother, her sister, whoever comes to help. And dad is supposed to just figure it out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and I didn't know my wife had a community. I didn't know she was texting these people in the middle of the night about a rash or a thing. I just thought she knew all this stuff. And I'm sitting there going like, I'm such a loser. Right? And. But anyway, I'm gonna make it a point that when I've got people in my world that have a new kid, like, be like, boot camp, dude. Dad, dad camp. And we're gonna teach you some of these small things. I think that's awesome. So good on those dudes. I. I love the idea of some dudes just getting some beers and learning how to braid. That's awesome.