My Fiancé Hid $100K in Debt from Me

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: My Fiancé Hid $100K in Debt from Me
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles significant relationship and mental health challenges, focusing on trust, financial infidelity, trauma recovery, social media addiction, and repairing family tensions. Dr. John Delony guides callers through real-life struggles: a woman discovering her fiancé’s secret six-figure debt, another battling social media addiction and loneliness, and a caller seeking advice on mending family relationships after an affair. Dr. Delony offers both empathetic support and practical steps, emphasizing honesty, boundary-setting, self-trust, and intentional connection.

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Main Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Confronting Financial Infidelity and Trust Issues in Relationships

[01:18 – 16:01]
Caller: Renee from Bismarck, ND

• Situation:
  Renee recently got engaged after living with her fiancé for two years. She learns he is hiding over $100,000 in debt, much acquired through addictive spending. He regularly dismisses her attempts to create a budget and be transparent about finances.

• Key Points:

  • Financial secrecy is a breach of trust, akin to “financial infidelity.”
  • Addictive behaviors and people-pleasing are underlying issues, but do not excuse dishonesty.
  • Trauma recovery requires building self-trust and refusing to ignore gut instincts.
  • Boundaries and clear expectations are necessary for relationship safety.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Why has it taken two years for you to trust yourself?” (Dr. John Delony, 02:55)
  • “Rarely does someone who is completely avoiding reality in one area of their life not do it in other areas.” (Dr. John Delony, 05:24)
  • “He cheated on you with money and he severed your attachment to safety.” (Dr. John Delony, 11:21)
  • “If you’re done, have the courage to leave.” (Dr. John Delony, 13:57)

• Action Steps Recommended:

  • Pull full credit reports for both parties (and their children, if necessary).
  • Clearly define joint expectations for finances and boundaries.
  • Be prepared to leave the relationship—or to insist on changes as a condition for moving forward.
  • Use “I statements” and own responsibility for prior inaction, while resolving not to ignore red flags in the future.
  • Build a new foundation based on honesty and explicit boundaries if the relationship continues.

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2. Social Media Addiction and Navigating Loneliness

[20:03 – 35:50]
Caller: Nicole from Tampa

• Situation:
  Nicole, a 25-year-old Gen Z remote worker, feels her social media use has become addictive and is interfering with her job and personal wellbeing. She struggles with loneliness due in part to remote work and moving to a new town.

• Key Points:

  • Social media often acts as a “great Xanax for loneliness,” but ultimately exacerbates isolation.
  • Using digital tools for work is different than using them to self-soothe.
  • Struggles with self-worth and feeling “awkward” can fuel the urge to escape into technology.
  • The antidote to social media addiction is real-life connection, even when it feels vulnerable or hard.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “It’s a great Xanax for loneliness.” (Dr. John Delony, 22:50)
  • “Do you think you’re worth being friends with?” (Dr. John Delony, 25:13)
  • “You’re worth being [loved]... Let him [your husband] carry some of that weight sometimes, because that’s what he signed up to do.” (Dr. John Delony, 33:25)
  • “Your school, the adults in your life... gave you drugs and now you’re 25 and realize, ‘I was high most of my childhood and I missed out on how to make friends.’” (Dr. John Delony, 35:07)

• Action Steps Recommended:

  • Treat social media as a tool—use it at work, not for comfort.
  • Commit to a 30-day social media fast, using the time to build in-person connections.
  • Schedule weekly events outside the home (or host people at home), even if they initially feel awkward.
  • When loneliness persists, consider professional counseling.
  • Write and reflect on what you feel you’re missing to discover opportunities for meaningful connection.

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3. Seeking Forgiveness and Dealing with Family Tension After an Affair

[37:30 – 52:15]
Caller: Jennifer from Atlanta, GA

• Situation:
  Jennifer had an affair years prior but has reconciled with her husband and most of her family. Her brother-in-law’s wife continues to ostracize her, which triggers Jennifer’s shame and people-pleasing instincts.

• Key Points:

  • You can’t control how others respond to your attempts at amends; you can only control your own actions.
  • Persistent self-shame keeps you anchored to the past and susceptible to unhealthy patterns.
  • True healing requires acknowledging past mistakes (guilt), but not internalizing them as permanent identity (shame).
  • Practice being the type of person you want to be—even with those who are unkind or unreceptive.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “The only person you can control is you.” (Dr. John Delony, 38:29)
  • “Write that woman who was about to go for the very first affair, write her a letter… and tell her that you still love her.” (Dr. John Delony, 45:08)
  • “Guilt is ‘I screwed up.’ Shame is ‘I’m a cheater. I’m not worth even coming over to this Christmas party.’” (Dr. John Delony, 46:24)
  • “Love is a bunch of little choices made over and over… Sometimes it’s got a cool firework show, but most of the time, it doesn’t. Most of the time, it’s yard work.” (Dr. John Delony, 51:33)

• Action Steps Recommended:

  • Let go of unreciprocated relationships—continue to act with dignity and kindness but accept others’ choices.
  • Write a forgiveness letter to your former self and a values-focused letter to your future self.
  • Work on internal narratives that reinforce shame; practice positive self-talk and seek therapy if struggles persist.
  • Build new rituals and honest conversations into your marriage as concrete acts of repair and intimacy.

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Notable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Why has it taken two years for you to trust yourself?” – Dr. John Delony [02:55]
• “He cheated on you with money and he severed your attachment to safety.” – Dr. John Delony [11:21]
• “If you’re done, have the courage to leave.” – Dr. John Delony [13:57]
• “It’s a great Xanax for loneliness.” – Dr. John Delony [22:50]
• “Do you think you’re worth being friends with?” – Dr. John Delony [25:13]
• “The only person you can control is you.” – Dr. John Delony [38:29]
• “Love is a bunch of little choices made over and over and over… It’s just watering the roots.” – Dr. John Delony [51:33]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Financial Infidelity & Trust
  [01:18 – 16:01]

• Social Media Addiction & Loneliness
  [20:03 – 35:50]

• Family Tension Post-Affair
  [37:30 – 52:15]

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Final Takeaways

• Trust must be actively managed and rebuilt after a breach (financial or otherwise)—it starts with transparency and boundaries.
• Addictive behaviors, whether with spending or social media, often mask deeper unmet needs for connection or self-worth. The solution lies in facing reality, seeking honest relationships, and investing in community, even at the risk of feeling awkward or afraid.
• Past mistakes inform your growth, but don’t have to define you. Self-compassion, honest conversations, and practical rituals help heal shame and reconnect relationships.

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This episode is a robust, real-world guide for anyone facing relational mistrust, addiction, shame, or the daunting work of reclaiming self-worth and connection. Dr. Delony provides both a compassionate ear and actionable steps for healing.

Transcript

[Caller]

So I recently got engaged this summer. We've been living together for a couple years before this, and every time I've asked him to sit down with the budget, he just kind of brushes me off like, no, we're fine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're good.

[Caller]

We're good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How bad is it? How much does he owe?

[Caller]

It's well over $100,000. Okay, well over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's going on?

What's going on?

This is John with a Dr. Ron DeLoney show.

So glad that you're with us. Pull up a seat, grab some, some nachos, grab something to eat, and we're going to figure out what's the next right move when it comes to your marriage, to your relationships, to your friendships, to holiday travels, to your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. For two decades, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move. And that's what we're going to do today.

All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now, we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in Marriage Getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at 749 bucks a couple. Get yours@ramsey solutions.com getaway.

Let's go out to Bismarck, North Dakota, and talk to Renee. Hey, Renee. What's going on?

[Caller]

Hi.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How are you?

[Caller]

So I recently got engaged this summer. We've been living together for a couple years before this. And every time I've asked him to sit down with the budget, he just kind of brushes me off like, no, we're fine.

We're good. We're good.

We have a couple of credit cards that I am a co.

Signer on, and.

I started noticing my credit score dip.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And let me, let me, let me.

Let me pause right there. Let me back all the way out of this. So some people or a lot of people listening to the show don't know that I also co host another show, the Ramsey show, where it's a finance show. We're talking about money.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you're, you're, you're asking questions about let's, let's get beneath the budget part. You've been living with a guy for two years.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you've been asking him money questions, which are really safety questions, provider questions, like, are we on the same team questions. Right.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And y' all took out a couple credit cards that together. So you, in, in a couple of instances, you've combined finances.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But over, after living together for two years, he won't tell you what he makes.

[Caller]

No, I know what he makes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

He won't tell you what he owes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Okay. All right. So can I ask you a hard question?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why has it taken two years for you to trust yourself?

[Caller]

Trust myself.

I am actually in trauma therapy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Not a good life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

A lot of. Lot of bad situations recently within, like, the last 10, 11 years, I've been working on myself. I have three daughters from a previous relationship.

I.

Started a business.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How bad is it? How much does he owe?

[Caller]

It's. It's well over $100,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Well over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what's the spending? Is it student loans or is it addictive stuff? Is it gambling?

[Caller]

Oh, I'm. I am very sure it's addictive stuff. He gets packages at the house all the time, you know, from different stores, you know, new clothes, golf stuff, soccer stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So spending addictions.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes. He tried to frame it as giving us the life that he thinks that we deserve, you know, because he really wants to be there, to step up and be there for me and my children. He has two other children of his own that live with their mom and.

Which is great. I'm really happy that that's how he feels, but I can't accept that as an answer because I know that that's not the deep reason.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

Well, let's do this. I want you to.

Part of trauma recovery is owning what I'm going to do next.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And so I want to own in this particular situation.

I have let it go on for two years.

And I'm not going to let it go on any longer.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The. The deception and the dishonesty and the fantasy life, which is we're just going to ignore the realities of math. And I'm going to continue just to borrow money. Buy money. I mean, buy whatever I want or whatever I think is going to make one of these kids feel good in the moment and regardless of whether I have that money or not.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I also hear in your question.

Let me say it this way. Rarely does someone who is completely avoiding reality in one area of their life not doing that in other areas of their life. So where are their deeper issues of trust fracture in this relationship?

[Caller]

He is an alcoholic.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

He recently went to treatment, and he's. I mean, he has been working on himself as far as that goes. But I don't think that he's getting to the deep, deep reasons of why he feels the need to do. He's. He's a people pleaser 100% a people pleaser. He wants to make sure people feel good all the time. And this is something that I have asked him to work on in therapy so that, you know, like I said, be selfish, be, you know, work on you. You don't have to worry about the rest of us. We'll take care of us. You need to work on you. So you're the best possible version of yourself for us.

But I just don't think that he's getting it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well. And I think this is one of the cancers of the. What I would call a great landmark. I'm a part of this community. The mental health awareness that has happened over the last 25 to 50 years.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's awesome. But this is one of the cancers which is.

Going to figure out why I'm a people pleaser. Going to figure out why I'm so desperate that everybody around me be happy.

Doesn't excuse the fact that he's lied to your face for two years.

[Caller]

Yes, I agree with that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It doesn't excuse the fact that he has. He is spending your family.

Into a quagmire that will take a decade or more to get out of.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I. I need you to go get to the bottom of some of your mental and emotional health challenges. It may or may not be a, quote, unquote, addictive, an addiction of some sort, or some sort of addictive disorder. But as for this house, we don't borrow money. As for this house, I want to pull all the credit reports, all three of mine. All three of yours, all of my three kids, to make sure you haven't pulled anything else up. Because I do not trust you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by association, I lost trust in myself, in my own gut feeling, and I'm not doing that anymore. That's part of my trauma recovery, is I'm going to begin to trust my body when it says, hey, there's a problem over here.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you, you have to make. Not make peace, but you have to traffic in the reality that he might leave.

[Caller]

I think it might be me leaving before him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You. You might be like, oh, that'd be awesome. Like, man, if he left.

[Caller]

Yeah. At this point, um, he knows he has a lot of work to do. He knows he has a lot of work to do. I just don't know if he knows how to do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That can't be your job, because that's okay. But what your job is, is making a very clear roadmap to trust and Giving it to him.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he gets to decide whether he's going to follow it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if he doesn't, then he's behavior is a language. He's saying, I don't want to be a part of this relationship.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you have to be clear about. Here's what. And I don't. I don't even want to say need. Here's what I want for my house, for me, for my. Any future relationship I'm going to be in, any future marriage I'm going to be a part of. Here's what I want.

I want to be with somebody who understands the realities of math, however uncomfortable they may be.

I want to be with somebody who, if there's an expense over a hundred dollars or five hundred dollars, that we run it by each other first.

That we have a budget for our money, so we have control, some sort of boundaries that we both agree to live within. Because a budget just sets the priorities of what you think is.

Important in your lives.

[Caller]

Okay.

I like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

It should be the most terrifying and.

The most empowering exercise you've been a part of.

You for the first time looking in the mirror and saying, this is what I want. And as for me in my house, this is what this is going to look like. I hope you'll be a part of it with me.

[Caller]

I think he'll be really receptive to that as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. It. Because. Because here's what I can also imagine in his world. You doing a lot of trauma work, which is both cathartic and scary and terrifying. Right. It's raw.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And.

You saying things like, you need to do your work and you've got a lot of work to do and you need to go talk to a therapist about this. And I think you're an addict, and I think you're. And that might be you just yelling at him in Spanish for all. He doesn't know what that means.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you giving him a map that says, regardless of how uncomfortable you feel, regardless of how tired you are.

We will sit down on Sunday nights and go over the budget together for the upcoming week. And a calendar.

If you come home to this house and you've been drinking, you can't stay here.

Like, you set those. You set those boundaries up. He's the one who violated the trust. In my world, I call it financial infidelity.

[Caller]

Yes, I agree with that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He cheated on you with money and he severed your attachment to safety.

And let's take ownership. You allowed it to happen for two Years.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so cool. I. I allowed this. And that's often a great way to enter into these conversations by using an I statement first. I allowed this. I asked you for budget numbers and you said it was all fine, and I didn't follow up. That's on me. I'm taking 100 responsibility and that stops today.

How's that sound?

[Caller]

I like it. It sounds good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The first thing I want you to do is have everybody pull a credit report.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can pull all three of them. I want you to have some confidence into how bad this thing really is.

Why does that scare you?

[Caller]

Just because what if there's more?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Almost every time. These kind of conversations come out in spurts. So as the number grown, the more you've dug in.

[Caller]

Yeah. Since the first conversation, you know, it was just. He gave me a little bit, and then.

The next conversation, I was like, wait a minute, you have this out though, too? And then he, you know, I know that he had another credit card out. And, you know, so it was. It's just little by little, it just kind of opened up.

I don't know if there is any more, but I almost wouldn't be surprised.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And that. That's what I want to solve. Your body's not going to feel safe until it. It knows.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So cool. Let's pull all three credit reports. Let's look at it in circle. And we're going to get out of yellow pad and we're going to add it all up. Or an Excel sheet. We're going to add it all up.

And do. Are you able to see his direct deposit?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then you don't know how much money he makes.

[Caller]

I haven't. He's shown me a couple of pay stubs here and there. I know what job he has, and I kind of know what's coming in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I want to transition from kinda. Okay, do I know.

And the. The day y' all are married, if you decide to do that, you're going to have one checking account. So we're both working from the same place, but please don't do that if you're not married. It makes untangling that a nightmare.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the last thing I'm going to tell you. Can I tell you one more thing?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you're done, have the courage to leave.

[Caller]

Yes.

That is something I'm working in, in therapy is how I'm feeling about things and trusting my gut.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. If you're done, be done.

If part of you healing is having been done or at the least say that the relationship we had is officially over. I'm willing to build a new one if you are. And here's what I want that architectural and design to look like on this new building, this new marriage, this new relationship, Right? And we're going to build it from the floor up and we'll try to work through it that way. But it's just, I, I don't want you to go through this experience, have somebody start to work through this, this road map of trust that you've created and begin ticking things off, growing in the whole time. You're like, yeah, but I'm still out. I'm still out, I'm still out. If you're out, have the courage to be out. There's no judgment either way. It's just you taking ownership of that. And again, I always want to point back to. Trauma therapy does a couple things. One, it allows your body to remember what happened and not have your body take off and try to solve it as though it's happening in the present. Right. But also trauma recovery is about trusting yourself and being scared, but and going anyway in terms of making new relationships, romantic, intimate relationships, friendships. And it's also about autonomy, being able to say the things. Here's what I want and here's what I'm going to demand because this is my life. And asking somebody that you're going to marry, what do you demand? Can we sit down and put all these things on the table and create a secret world together? Right. And that's a long term relationship. But appreciate the call. I wish you the best. It's, it's terrifying finding out your gut was right all along. It's terrifying to find out I ignored myself. It's terrifying to find out, hey, you owe 50 grand. You 100 grand, you 150,000. That's scary.

And so I'm gonna turn all the lights on, turn the music off, we're gonna pull credit reports, we're gonna sit down and we're gonna get some assurances here. And then we're gonna choose to start trafficking from that reality. And that can be a great place, and that can be a scary place. Thanks for the call, Renee. We come back, a woman asks how to break free from her social media addiction.

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Hey.

Take two seconds and hit the subscribe.

Button and.

Go into the Apple Store.

And download the Together app. It's my new app for married couples. It's awesome. Daily practices, one tiny step every single day. Behaviors of language. What's one thing I can do to begin to love you more and more and more? And I just left a big, long meeting about the things they're adding into this app. It's amazing and it's going to be a long term thing that grows with you over the course of your marriage and gets to know you better and better. It's awesome. It's called together by Dr. John Deloney. Go check it out. Android folks, relax, we're coming. We're just not there yet. All right, let's go out to Tampa and talk to Nicole. Hey, Nicole, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. What's going on?

[Caller]

Well, apologize. I'm. I'm nervous.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bring it.

[Caller]

I.

So I'm, I'm. I'm a Gen Z and I recently listened to your podcast with Carlos Whitaker, and I just read the Anxious Generation, and my question is, how do I break free from a social media addiction when so much of my life and skill set revolves around technology?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ooh, great question. So you use the word addiction. Tell me about the word addiction.

[Caller]

Yeah.

It'S probably something I probably wouldn't have considered before.

But recently I just kind of had a moment of. I don't even know how much time I've wasted just scrolling on social media.

And just.

It's been interfering with my everyday life, even to the point, like at work. And I brought up to my employer that, hey, I need help.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so if I was to say, delete all your accounts today and buy a flip phone by the end of the evening.

What panics sets off inside your chest?

[Caller]

Funny, because it.

That is something I've considered getting for the last year. But it's. I think what's coming from that is I just. I think I just would feel like I would get left behind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, what would you get left behind?

[Caller]

Just.

I think a lot of it's.

Community and.

Just with, like, with my job, like, I do social media as well with, with what I do, and I just feel like I probably won't be able to keep up and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, let me, Let me break in there on two things. One, if so, I like to. When someone is struggling with any sort of addictive behavior, I like to start from a place. It's not always true, but I like to start from a place of what if addictive behavior works? What if it's actually helping you?

And of course, like any good addiction, it will take everything from you, but it's serving a purpose. What is it protecting you from? And often social media has taken the place of real human connections, real friends, people I call and who call you.

It's a great Xanax for loneliness.

The second thing is I have a buddy who works in H vac.

Or.

I've got another friend who's a roofer as a roofing company. Every day he has a hammer and a drill, but it would be nuts for him to come home and sit at his couch going with his drill or doing that at dinner time.

And so it's okay to have a job where you do a thing unless that job becomes a moral crisis for you. Like, I don't even know if I want to be a part of this system anymore. And I wrestle with that because I know the evils of social media and I've got a couple million followers that I. I get that too. But it's not a strange thing for me. In fact, it's important to me that I don't go home and try to be a counselor to my wife or to my kids. They need a. They need a dad, my wife needs a friend and a husband. Right. So both of those things can be true. But if I ask you what is social media protecting you from? What is constant scrolling.

When you get home? What is that protecting you from? How would you answer that?

[Caller]

I think a lot of it's the loneliness thing and I guess for more context, do. I've been working remote and some hybrid positions on or off since 2018. So right now I'm currently full time remote as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Which is a cool, free to move about the country position. And it is devastatingly lonely.

Fair.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

And so what if we approach this in two ways? One, how can I keep my work tools in my toolkit for you for use at work? And number two, how can I solve the real challenge here, which is how old are you?

[Caller]

25.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm 25 and I am profoundly lonely.

[Caller]

Yeah.

And it's hard for me to say.

I know I'm lonely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I know. It's a scary, frustrating thing to be. Can I ask you a hard question about loneliness?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you think you're worth being friends with.

[Caller]

Not really.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Romantically. Do you think you're worth somebody just watching you walk into a room and think, oh my God, good God, she's beautiful. And grabbing you by the face and kissing you?

[Caller]

I have that. Thankfully, I have a husband.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Does he. Does. Do you catch him side eyeing you sometimes because he can't believe how lucky he is.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So there's a deeper layer then. And I've been there too. Tell me about feeling lonely at a table with a guy that you know loves you.

[Caller]

It's hard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Because he. He does a lot to show his. Like he'll ask me, how can I.

Best serve you today? And how can I love you? And he shows up in really incredible ways and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you don't think you're worth being served.

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where does that story come from?

[Caller]

I think.

In some ways.

Just going.

Back to growing up.

Like I have three siblings and I.

Saw how.

Like drugs and alcohol and different lifestyles.

How they chose those things. And I chose social media and video games and things and that was my way to escape in some ways.

But I.

Just always felt like the awkward kid. And in some ways I still feel awkward and don't really.

I don't.

I struggle with feeling, like I said, in different ways, environments.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

So I'll tell you the simple path forward.

It's what I have.

Here's the deal.

I can't control it. I had a. I was up till 1am last night. I'm exhausted. I've been hunting a lot, which means I'm getting up really early and staying up really late. I'm traveling all over the country and I've got like a weird thing where I'm toggling. I'm toggling between a leadership conference that I'm speaking multiple times at a marriage book that I'm working on, live events that I'm doing out big trout, like. So I've got a lot in. Last night I had a spin out. And the way I describe a spin out is I fell asleep on the couch like at 8 o'. Clock. My wife got up and went to bed. My son got up and went to bed. I woke up about 10 and I just melted my soul on social media for 90 minutes.

I felt like crap. I slept like crap. I just did. And I woke up this morning knowing I had to pay the piper. Right. I still got to get up. I got to be present with my kids. I got to go to work. And it's up to me to set boundaries today and not carry the shame of. I can't believe I didn't just go to bed last night. My body could have used asleep. I didn't. So here I am today. The only thing I can affect is what I'm going to do today. And so I know those men and women who make the apps are better than me. They're better than me. Social media is a drug and I'm an addict. Fine. So I have a choice to make. So I have it on two separate phones, I have my personal phone and I have social media on a phone that stays in my work bag.

And you can make that choice today.

The second thing is, is what? Anna Lemke, who's one of the greatest writers of our generation, she wrote a book called Dopamine Nation that I think everybody should read. But I want you to go check that book out.

But take, commit to a 30 day fast.

[Caller]

Okay? How do you.

Ever want to do a fast? How do you do a fast when, like during, during the workday? It's still something that's required.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's thinking of it as a hammer or a drill.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not as a portal to connection, because it's not.

[Caller]

Got it, got it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a drill. I, I build stuff in the mornings or in the afternoons. Great.

The other thing is catching yourself when you grab it when you're bored, when you grab it when you're lonely. You grab it when your boss is ranting Raven and you're trying to avoid a zoom meeting with your team. Like, you're going to catch yourself doing it and it's not beating yourself up. And I'm the worst. It's like, oh, man, I did it again and I'm going to click it back off.

And here's the thing that most people don't get about addiction. The reason aa, it's got detractors, fine. But the reason people find so much success in it is it's not just telling somebody to not drink, but it's addressing one of the core issues, which is isolation, loneliness, and nobody sees me or knows me.

And so if you do this fast, your body's going to be faced with the reality that you're profoundly lonely. And so the way to be successful during this fast, you can white knuckle your way through it. You're tough and strong and you got a great husband, you've got great support. You can do it, but you're going to grab. It's like, not me not eating gummy candies for lint, dude.

The day of Easter.

I Go into a diabetic coma, I go bananas, right? Because I'm not dealing with the core issue. So for you, the path is I'm gonna put something on the calendar every week where I leave my house. I'm gonna put something on the calendar every week for. For four weeks, for 30 days, where people come to my house, because that's the real problem.

And when they walk in the door, I'm gonna have a basket and say, everybody's got to put their phone in here. We're all going to play Candyland. What? We're going to play some silly childhood game and we're going to be silly doing it.

And I'll provide the tacos, you provide the drinks and the whatever. We're just going to have a nuts and bolts thing. And two people may show up, five people may show up, nobody may show up. But I'm going to backfill the core issue and practice being awkward without this drug.

[Caller]

I kind of have a silly follow up question on that.

Like, we recently moved cross country, moved back to his hometown, and I'm still working on building friends and community here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you working on building it or are you thinking about it?

[Caller]

I've been working on it. Just, I haven't, I guess, found my people yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cool.

[Caller]

But.

What would you suggest?

Just the same? Just invite anyone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go first and be weird.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Those are the guiding things. Go first and be weird. You'll never find your people unless you surround yourself with a bunch of people and filter out. Not your people and your people.

Here's the thing. In my house, this just happened.

I have a neighbor, his name's Craig. He's awesome. He's the best neighbor you could ever.

Have in your life.

He texted me a picture of a Halloween, a front yard Halloween party for Halloween night.

And I was like, oh, that's cool.

You want to hear something awesome? I snapped that picture, I screenshot it and sent it to my wife and said, hey, let's go to this thing in the neighborhood.

My wife is the one who sent it.

I didn't know I was having a Halloween front yard party at my own house.

Right? So it's, we're gonna go first and we're gonna be weird. And my wife, I guess, printed off flyers and sent the kids around and they put them on people's doors.

And that's, I can tell you already.

That makes me feel awkward and exposed and I'm feeling it and I'm gonna go do it anyway because I know it's gonna be awesome.

And at Least one of my neighbors.

Was super hyped about it.

Hear me say, you're worth being.

And in those moments when you don't feel lovable, look over at that great husband you have and at least choose to trust him over the story that you're telling yourself.

Let him carry some of that weight sometimes because that's what he signed up to do. Till death do you part.

I don't feel lovable. That guy loves me. He doesn't lie to me. I'm gonna trust him over my body that's sounding the alarms, trying to keep me safe.

And if I get to a point where I continually loop back to I don't feel lovable, I don't feel worth being friends with, I'm gonna go see a counselor, I'm gonna go see a professional therapist, I'm going to work through that because I need to change that story because it's not true. And.

I'm going to get radical and take a 30 day fast from social media, period. And I'm going to feel all those uncomfortable feelings I'm going to journal about, I'm going to write them down. When I feel like I'm missing something, I'm going to write it down. I feel like I'm missing and I want you to say, I feel like I'm missing what.

I feel like I'm missing what. And then I'm going to backfill that with actual real people, with game night, with my husband, with, hey husband, buckle up, we're going to be making out a lot because I don't have anything else to do. I'm going to be scrolling the night away.

I'm actually going to get sleep.

I'm going to put a bedtime on here. I'm going to try to go to bed. I might start exercising.

I'm going to fill this, this gap.

Up of time I've been scrolling away with.

Positive things. And by the way, if you, anyone else feeling shame, especially 25 year olds, 35 year olds, I want you to know this.

Your school, the adults in your life.

When you were children, failed you, they failed you.

They gave you drugs in middle school.

They gave you drugs in high school, they gave you drugs in college and.

They called them.

Educational technology, they called.

Them learning devices, they called them mobile.

Learning initiatives, they called them connectivity, they gave you drugs and now you're 25 and realized I was high most of my childhood and I missed out on how to make friends. Okay, cool, now it's time to get sober. You can't do anything about what they did. But you can choose to not keep using this drug, which is called social media. And I'm going to start doing real things with real people in the real world.

It's your move, sister. Thank you for calling. I'm proud of you.

At the end of this 30 day fast, I would love for you to.

Call me back and let me know how it went. The good, the bad and the ugly.

That'd be a great follow up call, Nicole.

We come back.

A woman wonders how to handle a family relationship when that family member won't.

Forgive her for having an affair.

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All right, Atlanta, Georgia, let's talk to Jennifer.

What's up, Jennifer?

[Caller]

Hi, Dr. John, how's it going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, dandy. What's up? I don't ever say the word dandy. I don't even know why I said that. That was dumb.

I'm doing great. How are you?

[Caller]

Good.

Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got what's up?

[Caller]

So I'm basically calling because I need some advice on how to handle a family relationship with my brother in law's wife. I had an affair a couple of years ago and my husband and I have reconciled. We've stayed together and I've made amends with most of the family and we're actually on really great terms. She's the only one who. There's still a strain.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let it go.

Let it go.

[Caller]

Oh, it's so hard because she acts like I don't exist and she ignores.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then let her.

[Caller]

Me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the thing.

The only person, the only.

And I sound like I'm making it simple.

It.

It's hard, but it's simple. The only person you can control is you.

That's it. And so choose to be a person who treats everybody with dignity and respect regardless of if they give it back or not.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if she doesn't want. If she wants to be a child and take her ball and go home, if she wants to every family, every family get together. She wants to drag an elephant and sit it right in the middle of the living room, that's fine.

I'm still going to ask you, hey, do you want anything to drink when I'm going to the kitchen? No. Okay. That's. I'm.

Because all I can have, all I can.

Only thing I can do is just be the best. The best sister in law I can be. I can't make you like me. I can't make you tell the truth about me. I can't make you do anything.

[Caller]

Yeah. I guess the practicality of it is the part that I'm struggling with because it definitely triggers my past, like rejection issues and like my people pleasing issue.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why does she get a vote?

[Caller]

And.

I guess because we, the family, gets together often.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but she has looked at you and said, I do not want a relationship with you. I'm going to use a past indiscretion on your part to every day make myself feel better.

Like, I don't know, like if there's a person like that in the world, that's great. Knock your lights out.

You're.

You don't want to be friends with me. I'm not. I'm not going to spend energy.

[Caller]

Right. I guess where I struggle is when we are in the same household. And usually it's for multiple days because it's at big events. Like, I struggle personally with either completely ignoring them because I feel awkward or maybe trying too hard. So I don't know how to like practically interact with her when we're in the same room.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. Can I be. Can I ask hard, hard questions?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Take me back to your affair. Because I think there's a trend line here. Take me back to it. What happened?

[Caller]

So.

I have a history of stepping out sexually to meet my like, deep needs and trauma. It was a lot of unprocessed things I didn't deal with, and I brought it into the marriage.

And I fully take responsibility. But I know that there were things in the marriage that triggered those things, and I didn't deal with it in a healthy way. So I decided to have the affair. But the biggest thing was just a deep lack of like, emotional connection with my husband. And so I was seeking that elsewhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on. Define for me emotional connection.

[Caller]

It's that deep feeling of like being known and being.

Disconnected, like on an intimate level.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

He, unfortunately, he's a great guy. Like, he really is, but he struggles with deep being deep and being past surface level just because of its own trauma.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, and, and, and as a fellow trauma survivor.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We are terrible with allowing ourselves to be seen and known.

Because we did once and it got us hurt.

Fair.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

And so almost always not. That's not true. I overstated that. Often.

There'S a sense of.

I need somebody out there to make me feel okay inside of here.

[Caller]

Yes.

I can relate to that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need somebody to make me feel alive. I need somebody to get my heart rate up. I need somebody to. To pretend for nine minutes that you see me and know me.

Okay. So I'm going to assume that you've worked on that kind of stuff you've worked on.

[Caller]

I did a. Yeah, I did a program. I've been going to a therapist. So it's been a lot of hard part work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. All right. So now I want to take that similar trend line and bring it into your in laws house over Thanksgiving.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Strangely, you're walking into that door.

Trying to make all these people make you feel okay on the inside of your skin.

And my suggestion to you is that's not their job.

It's you asking. Not the need question. Because I think that can be over dramatized sometimes. I think you asking, what do I want?

And often the deeper question here is I don't want to be around those people either.

And that leads to a harder conversation with your husband, which is, is there a possibility we could do Thanksgiving differently this year?

I want to for one year at least have a Thanksgiving or a Christmas or I cannot wait to walk in the front door of wherever it is we're going.

Not I want to walk in hoping that I can sing and dance, that everybody will like me. Oh, gosh. I don't think that person just cut their eyes. Oh, gosh, they're Not. And I feel weird. Everybody's thinking about the affair. The affair, the affair. They're not. They're thinking about the mashed potatoes and whatever. But there's one person that doesn't like you and decides to act like a 4 year old about it and ignores you. Right? You see what I'm saying? It's this outsourcing of responsibility to somebody else. Make me feel a little bit more alive and okay and at peace in my own skin.

[Caller]

So what is your suggestion for continually growing in like the worst aspects of it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You write that woman who was about to go for the very first affair, write her a letter.

As she was getting into the car to go meet with somebody and her husband was at home.

And that woman whose heart was racing 100 miles an hour and kind of didn't black out, but was pretty intentional. But like, I'm gonna go do this thing, like, who made that choice? Write her a letter and tell her that you still love her.

Until I know how much you're hurting. And if I could do anything, I'd go back and hug you and say, don't do this. This is going to blow up a good man's life. This is going to blow up my life. And this isn't the path. This isn't the solution to the hurt we have or to the emptiness that we feel.

Let her go. Because you're dragging her around everywhere saying, see, look what you did. See, look what you did. That woman over there in the other, other corner of the room, my brother in law's wife.

See what you did?

You ruined Christmas. Three years later, four years later, five years later.

[Caller]

No, that, that's definitely good.

I mean, because it's, it's the.

I think that's the hardest part is.

The shame, you know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, but you.

Get in, you've heard me say this, but you get the difference between guilt and shame, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Guilt is I screwed up. I did. I cheated on a good man.

Shame is I'm a cheater. I'm not worth even coming over to this Christmas party. I'm the worst person here. And this woman at every turn confirms the story you've made up about yourself, about how unlovable you are.

[Caller]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The path back from shame is a new story, which is I'm a person of fidelity. I'm a person who never cheats on my husband, which means I gotta come up with a whole bunch of strategies on when I start feeling like I want to step out, when I start feeling bored in my own skin. Or I start feeling less than that. We have a path. We, we meet every week to talk about our calendar and our budget and our sex life for the week. We go on long walks on Saturday mornings together. We don't have to look each other in the eye, but we're eye to eyeball. The eyeball. We. Whatever the things are that we have a thing that's already in motion. It's a way of being for us where we talk about hard things.

That you don't wait till that, that you shake up that 2 liter bottle until it just is so full of. Of disrupted air that the top shoots off.

That you have the ability to say, I need some adventure in our sex life this week.

Instead of saying, I need you to go deeper with me in conversation to say, I'm going to send them to you. The Questions for Humans intimacy deck cards and the Questions for Humans couples cards. I'm going to send them to you for free. I want to ask you seven questions.

And we're going to. I want to sit in the bathtub with a hot bath and we're going to have candles in there and you just sit on the floor next to me. And we're going to go back and forth with these questions.

Which might be one of the most strangely intimate nights you've had in ages.

[Caller]

Yeah, it sounds nice though.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you know what I'm saying.

But it's like you have the responsibility to say out loud, here's what I want.

And then here's an option. And then if he looks at you and says, I'm not. I don't want to answer questions. I don't want to do that. I don't want to sit in the bathroom and talk about these. Get to know you better. I'd rather just watch a football game. But then you all need to address that issue.

[Caller]

Yeah, right.

Yeah, no, that makes sense. That sounds good. I want to definitely try that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The, the story, the letter I want you to write. I want you to write that letter to her and let her go.

Don't let her off the hook.

She messed up. But I want to, I want to contextualize it as a hurting young woman.

Who constantly sought to feel less painful by going and getting her heart rate up and doing something wild.

Except this time it was with my husband and I blew up our life. The second letter I want you to write is to five years from now you. And it says, dear Jennifer.

We are a person who.

Always tells the truth.

We're a person who has messed up in the past. We violated our own values in the past, and we will never do that again. Which means we're a person who always puts our challenges on the table and has the courage to say, here's what I want this week.

Jennifer is the kind of person who loves everybody and treats everybody with respect. Even when there's annoying family members that snub their nose at me.

It's deciding, who am I going to be? And then just backfilling that with the actions that will get you to that place. Otherwise, you walk into every room asking yourself, am I lovable? Because you don't believe you are. And then you. Your mind goes looking for what it wants. Like, it's. Like it goes looking for what you think to be true. And every glance, every time somebody walks out of the room, every time somebody covers up their wine glass and it's confirmation of the story you've already told yourself, which is, I'm not worth being in this room.

I'm unlovable.

That story is not true.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'd say that's probably the hardest inner dialog that I battle with. And, you know, that's just from my upbringing. Constantly feeling unloved and rejected, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then some guy is going to give you the illusion of love for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Love is. Love can be boring. And love is a choice made over and over and over again. And sometimes it's got a cool firework show to it, but most of the time, it doesn't. Most of the time, it's yard work. Most of the time it's emptying the dishwasher. Most of the time, it's washing little whiskers out of the sink.

Love is a bunch of little choices made over and over and over. It's saying, I'm sorry. It's saying, I don't know how we got sideways, but here's a cup of coffee I just made for you.

It is just picking up the underwear and putting it in the basket and going about your day, not telling yourself a story that he's doing that because he doesn't care about you. He doesn't love you. I'm just going to pick up anywhere, dude, and get on about my day.

But those things take practice. They're uncomfortable, they're boring, they're annoying.

It's just water in the roots and water in the roots. And one day you realize we have a gigantic, sturdy tree, and that's a pretty amazing thing. Thanks for calling, sister.

Go to Christmas with your head held high because you're worth being in that room. We'll be right back.

All right.

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All right, Kelly, something cool happened. What is it?

[Kelly]

Yes. So earlier this year we had a guy named Phil that called in and was talking about his wife was pregnant and she had a son from a previous marriage that he adored and he was nervous that he was going to favor his biological child over his stepson. So he writes in. I called earlier this year for advice on how to make sure I didn't love my stepson any less after having a biological child. Just wanted to give an update. My wife gave birth to a healthy baby girl back in August and we are all over the moon. I made a point to take my son to breakfast at least once a month before work and school and had a couple of dudes weekends to get some one on one time. Your advice on using your baby and your sister rather than just saying the baby seemed to work and it seemed to give him a sense of upcoming responsibility. Now that she has arrived, my son has been very helpful, attentive and loving to his new sister. While things are sticky, stinky and loud in the house right now, we still have our breakfast, lunch dates thanks for the advice and the wisdom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's fantastic. Hey, Ben. That's the name of our new band. Sticky, Stinky and Loud. Ship it. That's a great band name.

[Kelly]

That is by far the most accurate description of yalls band I've ever heard. So it works.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, that's so fantastic.

I love these follow up stories.

If you've ever been on the show before and.

You'Re muddling through and figuring.

Out the next right move and you.

Want to write in, I'd love to hear from you.

So if you've got that, that'd be great. But I appreciate him writing in. That's super cool. I was. Two cool things happened this morning. I went to breakfast with my wife. I'm about to be on the road for a while. So we went and there was a dad having a very awkward breakfast with his son. And his son was little and they were. It was awkward in that like, I could tell they didn't really know what to say to each other and. And I stopped by to say, dude, this is so cool. Like, this looks awesome. And that was cool. And then the second one is, as I was leaving, another grown man said, hey, I never. I'm in Nashville. There's always people coming out of restaurants and stuff. I never stop them. But I needed to stop you and tell you, this is my friend, this a old frat brother of mine. These are guys that are probably 10 years older than me, this old frat brother of mine. And you keep telling us that we got to get together and have friends and so we're catching up. And he said we've got through all the lies and then we got through all the old stories and now we're talking about stuff that matters. And it was just a cool, like very, very cool. Just in a random breakfast restaurant here in town. So that's all those stories make me. They make all this show worth it. It makes every day of my life just staring at Kelly and her Dallas Cowboy T shirt. It makes it all worth it. Yes. All of it. Stinky. What was it?

[Kelly]

Stinky, Sticky and Loud.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That might be the name of our last. We could win that way with that name. Can never win. But that might be the name of our live album. Sticky, Stinky and Loud. I like it, dude. I'm in love, you guys. Bye.