My Husband and I Haven’t Had Sex in 2 Years

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show Episode: My Husband and I Haven’t Had Sex in 2 Years
Release Date: August 15, 2025

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Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney addresses complex relationship and mental health issues through real-life caller interactions. The primary focus centers on a heartfelt call from Bri, who grapples with a prolonged period without sexual intimacy in her marriage. Throughout the episode, Dr. DeLoney offers insightful analysis, practical advice, and empathetic support, while also engaging with other callers facing their own relationship challenges.

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Caller Spotlight: Bri's Struggle with a Sexless Marriage

Timestamp: [00:05] - [16:45]

Caller: Bri
Main Concern: Lack of sexual intimacy in her 25-year marriage, contemplating divorce despite personal and faith-based reservations.

Bri's Situation: Bri reaches out to the show expressing her distress over not having had sex with her husband in two years. She feels the roles in her marriage are reversed, desires more intimacy than her husband, and is conflicted about divorcing him solely due to the lack of sexual connection. Additionally, Bri struggles with feelings of self-blame stemming from her past experiences of sexual abuse, which she believes have impacted her husband's desire and their marital relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller [00:05]: “Honestly, I would like to leave, but how can I divorce someone just because they won't be sexually intimate with me?”
• Dr. John DeLoney [03:06]: “I don't think you want to divorce your husband because he won't sleep with you. What is going on?”

Dr. DeLoney’s Analysis: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes that while the lack of sexual intimacy is a significant issue, it's symptomatic of deeper relational and emotional disconnects. He challenges Bri's inclination to self-blame by highlighting that many women face similar struggles, attributing the issue more to her husband's possible unresolved trauma and lack of emotional connection rather than her past.

Insights and Guidance:

• Emotional and Relational Connection: Dr. DeLoney stresses the importance of addressing not just the physical aspect of intimacy but also the emotional bond between partners. He suggests that without mutual effort to meet each other’s needs both physically and emotionally, the relationship may continue to face challenges.

• Self-Blame and External Factors: He reassures Bri that her desire for intimacy is valid and not inherently selfish. By pointing out external factors such as her husband's potential struggles with pornography or other personal issues, Dr. DeLoney shifts the focus away from self-blame.

• Communication Barriers: Bri mentions her direct attempts to communicate with her husband, who responds defensively or remains non-committal. Dr. DeLoney recommends a more structured approach to communication, possibly involving setting mutual goals for therapy and concrete steps toward healing.

Actionable Advice:

• Second Conversation: Dr. DeLoney advises Bri to initiate another heartfelt conversation with her husband, emphasizing the importance of mutual commitment to repairing the relationship. He suggests setting clear boundaries and expectations, such as attending marriage counseling together.

• Behavior as Communication: Emphasizing that "behavior is a language," Dr. DeLoney urges Bri to recognize that her husband's lack of action reflects his unwillingness to engage in the necessary work to mend their marriage.

• Decision-Making: He encourages Bri to make decisive choices based on her well-being and the health of her family, including considering divorce if her husband remains unresponsive to efforts at reconciliation.

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Additional Caller: Scott's Premarital Concerns

Timestamp: [21:48] - [31:18]

Caller: Scott from Salt Lake City, Utah
Main Concern: Uncertainty about marrying his 20-year-old girlfriend before moving in together after seven months of dating.

Scott's Situation: Scott seeks advice on whether he should marry his girlfriend before cohabiting, citing mature conversations but expressing uncertainty about the timing and logistics of marriage, particularly regarding church ceremonies.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller [21:49]: “Do I marry this girl before asking her to move?”
• Dr. John DeLoney [24:22]: “Why can't you answer that question?”

Dr. DeLoney’s Analysis: Dr. DeLoney assesses Scott's readiness for marriage, highlighting the significant age and maturity gap between him and his girlfriend. He questions the urgency behind their decision to marry swiftly and emphasizes the importance of understanding the responsibilities and long-term commitment that marriage entails.

Insights and Guidance:

• Readiness for Commitment: Dr. DeLoney underscores the necessity of being certain about wanting to spend a lifetime with a partner before taking the plunge into marriage. He advises Scott to reflect deeply on his feelings and the long-term viability of the relationship.

• Age and Maturity Gap: Addressing the 8-year age difference between Scott and his girlfriend, Dr. DeLoney points out potential challenges related to life stages, maturity levels, and future goals, advocating for a cautious and well-considered approach.

• Alternative Approach: He suggests taking more time to build the relationship through shared experiences and managing conflicts before considering marriage or cohabitation. This includes engaging in meaningful conversations about life goals, finances, faith, and family planning.

Actionable Advice:

• Extended Dating Period: Dr. DeLoney encourages Scott to continue dating for a longer period, allowing both partners to navigate various aspects of the relationship and solidify their compatibility.

• Mentorship and Support: He recommends seeking mentorship from experienced married couples to gain insights into the responsibilities and challenges of marriage.

• Comprehensive Discussions: Scott is advised to engage in comprehensive discussions covering essential topics like finances, career aspirations, family planning, and personal growth to ensure both partners are aligned in their visions for the future.

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Additional Caller: Liz's Concern Over Husband's Addictions

Timestamp: [37:00] - [50:50]

Caller: Liz
Main Concern: Her husband has been living separately for a year and a half due to addictions and anger issues, questioning the salvageability of their marriage.

Liz's Situation: Liz shares her distress over her husband’s ongoing struggles with pornography, nicotine, and marijuana use, coupled with anger issues. Despite his attempts to seek sobriety, he remains reliant on his parents and is resistant to taking responsibility for his role in their deteriorating marriage. Liz has taken significant steps to protect herself and their two young children, including relocating and maintaining her responsibilities alone.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller [37:05]: “My husband and I have lived separately for the last year and a half due to his addictions and anger issues.”
• Dr. John DeLoney [43:52]: “I can't tell you what to do next. I can just tell you I don't think we're dealing with an addiction issue.”

Dr. DeLoney’s Analysis: Dr. DeLoney expresses sympathy for Liz's situation and highlights the critical need for her husband to assume full responsibility for his recovery and role in the family. He points out that Liz has been the primary caregiver and emotional support, which has contributed to her feeling overwhelmed and unsupported.

Insights and Guidance:

• Addiction and Responsibility: Dr. DeLoney clarifies that the issues extend beyond addiction, encompassing a lack of respect and responsibility. He emphasizes that true leadership in a marriage involves active participation and accountability.

• Impact on Children: He discusses how the husband's behavior adversely affects their children, with the son expressing inherited anger and the daughter struggling with attention and identity issues.

• Setting Boundaries: Dr. DeLoney advises Liz to set clear boundaries and expectations for her husband, outlining specific steps he must take to regain his place and responsibilities within the family.

Actionable Advice:

• Clear Requirements for Reconciliation: Dr. DeLoney recommends that Liz establish concrete conditions for her husband's return, such as consistent therapy attendance, securing his own living arrangements, and actively addressing his addictions and anger.

• Emotional Support and Self-Care: He urges Liz to prioritize her well-being and that of her children, recognizing the importance of modeling healthy relationships and emotional resilience.

• Decision-Making: Consistently throughout the episode, Dr. DeLoney reinforces the concept of "the next right thing," encouraging Liz to make informed, decisive choices that align with her values and the best interests of her family.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show delves deep into the intricate dynamics of marital relationships, emphasizing the necessity of emotional intimacy, mutual responsibility, and proactive communication. Through Bri's poignant case and additional caller interactions, Dr. DeLoney provides a compassionate yet pragmatic approach to resolving marital conflicts, underscoring the importance of personal accountability and the pursuit of mental and emotional well-being.

Final Notable Quote:

• Dr. John DeLoney [55:15]: “It’s time to turn the lights back on and turn the music back off because y’all slip back into the same dance.”

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Key Takeaways:

1. Emotional Intimacy Over Physical: Addressing emotional connections is crucial for resolving issues related to physical intimacy in a marriage.
2. Avoiding Self-Blame: Recognize external factors and partner’s possible unresolved issues rather than internalizing blame.
3. Structured Communication: Initiate clear, honest conversations with set boundaries and expectations to foster relationship healing.
4. Personal Responsibility: Both partners must actively participate in the relationship’s growth and address personal challenges.
5. Prioritizing Well-being: Focus on self-care and the well-being of the family as a whole when navigating marital struggles.

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For More Information:
To send questions or seek support, listeners are encouraged to contact the Ramsey Network via voicemail at 844-693-3291 or email at [e-mail].

Transcript

[Caller]

My husband and I have not had sex in two years. Honestly, I would like to leave, but how can I divorce someone just because they won't be sexually intimate with me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Man, I hate to say this, because these things get clipped on the Internet and send out all over the place. I don't think you want to divorce your husband because he won't sleep with you. What is going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so glad you're here. Talking about your mental and emotional health and your relationships and your marriage and your kids. All of it. You want to be on the show? Go to john deloney.com. ask a S K. We'll get you hooked up. Let's go to Louisville. Not Louisville. Like, it's exactly like it's spelled.

[Co-host]

It's. It's not spelled Louisville. It's spelled Louisville because that's how you spell Louis.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's also how you spell Louis. Yeah, but phonetically. Yeah. I'm just looking at the letters.

[Co-host]

The city is literally named after King Louis. Louis.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. I. All of that is cool. It says Louis. Just go the call Louisville E. Louisville. But if you say Louisville or even Louisville, they come for your children because it's called Louisville. So we're gonna go out to. And talk to Bri. What's up, Bri?

[Caller]

Yeah, you're right. It's lol.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It looks like you've had. It sounds like you've had, like, six beers, and you're just like, oh, yeah, exactly.

[Caller]

So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what's up?

[Caller]

Thanks for all you do. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Thank you. What's up?

[Caller]

So I'm gonna cannonball, like you say, even though I feel like this is a big onion, so one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Peel it.

[Caller]

Okay.

So my husband and I have not had sex in two years. And before that, it had been very, very sporadic, meaning like twice a year. And I feel like roles are reversed and I'm wanting more than him. And there's a lot of past with us. We've been married for 25. Five years. And so I think that a lot of that has gotten in the way of him desiring me or. Or wanting to be with me. And I have asked a lot of the questions that you've. I listen to you all the time, and I've asked a lot of the questions that you've mentioned, but I don't get answers. So I'm wanting. Honestly, I would like to leave. I've thought about divorce, but I'm also a Woman of faith. And I think, how can I divorce someone just because they won't give. Be sexually intimate with me? Which seems like a very selfish thing to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, man, there's where I'm at. There's like 40 questions here. There's a lot. There's a big onion. That's right. I'll start at the end and work backwards. I don't think you want to divorce your husband because he won't sleep with you and hasn't for years. The deeper layer is you have said, will you connect with me not just physically, but also emotionally and relationally? And he has said no. He won't answer your questions. He won't go to the doctor. He won't be honest with you. He is not, in my opinion, being a person of fidelity.

[Caller]

That's hard to hear.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not being a person of integrity.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so we can go backwards, but there's lots of people in what I would. What are. What are classically defined as sexless marriage is 10 interactions or less a year. And that's the world they've set up for themselves. And by and large, they're happy. That's the world that they inhabit. And there's other couples that have sex ten times a week. I mean, just constantly. I don't know how they have time to do anything else other than have sex, but they're doing it all the time and they're miserable. And so the frequency, I do think what you're mentioning, not having sex for two years, I think is a challenge. Having having it once or twice a year in the years before that. That, on its face, sounds like it's tough. But the bigger issue is, are y' all talking together about physical intimacy and are y' all helping each other meet each other's needs? And if the answer is no to that, then you got a bigger issue. That's. That's issue number one. But hold on before you start up. Number two is, I heard you three times in your explanation. Blame yourself.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You said, I think the roles are reversed here. That is. That's. That's fake news. Millions of women are in sexless marriages because their husbands are struggling with ed. Their husbands are struggling with obesity, which has all kinds of health implications for erections and for even wanting to be intimate because their husbands are obsessed with pornography. Like, this is. This is pervasive. This isn't just you.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So I don't want you to quietly and shamefully bow your head and think that there's something wrong with you because you want You're a woman, and you're all out on an island by yourself. You want to have more sex than you're having. That is just simply inaccurate. Millions and millions and millions of women are in your same boat. Okay, Maybe not to the extreme, but you're not. There's not something wrong with you. Okay. Now, you also blamed yourself and said, there's some reasons he doesn't want to be with me. I would love to hear those reasons that you have, the stories you tell yourself about that.

[Caller]

Well, he. I have been very direct. I've gotten to a point in my Life. I'm turning 50 next year, and I'm like, I'm done with all the games and all the nonsense. I came straight out, and I was like, one, do you want to be married to me? And two, why don't you desire me? And his answer is usually, I don't know. I don't have answers for you. I don't know what to say. But the most recent was that I trigger his trauma, and that the. From the past. And that's probably why I blame myself for a lot of things, because in the past, I had a lot of. Let's just say I had a lot of sexual issues where I was abused and other things. And so that when we started our marriage, it made things really difficult for him. And then when I got healed, that changed a lot of things. And so I feel as if I'm still being blamed for that.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And there's probably truth all around, right, that he wanted to sleep with his new wife. And that was painful, scary, whatever for you, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And there was.

[Caller]

Yeah, it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There was a learning curve together.

[Caller]

Well, yeah. And it just kind of. I was very controlling in, like, what was allowed or what was we could do because of my past. So kind of dampened things a bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long ago was that?

[Caller]

Oh, gosh, that's 15 years ago, @ least. But I don't think he's ever forgiven me for those things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That's the answer right there.

[Co-host]

It.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Man, I hate to say this, because these things get clipped on the Internet and send out all. All over the place. If you're triggered, that's your body immediately going to DEFCON 1. Fight or flight is trying to save you. And in relational context, you get a couple of triggers, and then the. The job is to go heal and teach your body that what used to terrify us or what was scary is no longer scary. So saying something triggers me as permission to just sit on the couch and not live my life. And not be in a marriage is. It's a non starter for me.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You were triggered early on in your marriage because of past abuse, Right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you set some boundaries that he was all in on and it was frustrating for him, it was scary for you. Y' all walked through it together. That's what healing looks like. And now you're trying to get the wallpaper to peel off. And he is saying, I'm still scared from 15 years ago, so I don't want to do anything.

[Caller]

The real actually.

[Co-host]

Go ahead.

[Caller]

Well, he actually said to me that I quote, trained him to be this way because of how my controlling behavior from the past.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If this was a year ago or two years ago, five years ago, I would give him that. 15 years. I, I don't know. I, I, I, I. He's not on the phone to defend himself. And so me trying to get in his head and decide what he's doing or why he's doing it, whatever. It sounds to me like he has not forgiven you. He's mad that he lost his. What? In his mind, he's sitting here at 50 years old, thinks he lost his 30s, thinks he lost his late 20s, and it's just. I checked out. Yeah. But what I don't buy is I don't have any answers for you. Oh, no. Oh, no. I don't know. I don't buy that.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So when you say I need some answers, what does he say?

[Caller]

He just, he gets very. Well, he eventually shuts down, but he gets defensive or angry. And when I bring up my feelings and he brings up his and there's no, it's just a back and forth, it turns into a back and forth between us. So then that nothing gets resolved. And that's why I'm just at a point in my life where I would really like to, I want to move forward. I don't want to go backwards.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, there you go. And have you said that to him?

[Caller]

I guess not in those exact words. I've really said, you know, I'm kind of done with all the, all the dance. Like I, I did what you said, what you say, I turned off the lights, turned on music and I looked down and I said, I'm done. I'm done with all the dance, I'm done with all that. I want, I want to move forward. I want to be more intentional in my life. But I don't think he's on board for that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What did he say?

[Caller]

He just looked at me and said, I know you are. And I Don't have answers for you.

So.

And he is. I mean, I know. I feel like all the other people who call him backpedal, but he is trying to go to counseling, but the counseling doesn't seem to be. It's like he just has talk therapy. It's not like they're actually diving into anything. And he said, you know, he was like, well, we're supposed to start doing stuff this on the next session. And I'm like, but it's been six months since I said all this. And in January, we had planned. We sat our daughter down, we planned on divorcing, and then we had a going away, sitting down talk. And that changed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What changed? But.

[Caller]

He promised. He promised that he would go to therapy, he would work through some of the, quote, trauma, the things that he refuses to forgive me for. And I. It was the first time he ever said that. And so I agreed. I was like, okay, if you're going to go do that, I will wait. That's just what it feels like is I'm just in waiting mode.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's time to have a second conversation.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't be in the position to say, you need to divorce somebody. I'm not going to do that.

[Caller]

No, I understand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you've heard me say this a million times. Behavior is a language.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it sounds like through his actions, he is not interested in forgiving you for the. The hurt and the injustice that he feels from when y' all were first together. And rightly or wrongly, it's a free country he has. He can do that. I would say as a married man, he opted out of that, and he opted to constantly come back to the table looking to heal. That's not what he's choosing to do. And so there's something about a sobering conversation that says, hey, six months ago, we sat down and made this plan. And I recognize in the past, as a part of me trying to get myself well, that I ran you through the ringer. And the best I can do is tell you I'm so sorry. And here we are 15 years later. @ best, we're halfway through our life. At worst, we're. We're three quarters of the way through. Statistically speaking, I want to wheels off the as long as we can.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you in or are you in or are you out? And I don't know that we can't do that anymore. Or I will take your willing. Your. Your refusal to answer questions as you saying, I don't have the courage to say It. But I don't want to be married to you anymore. All right, so here's the deal. He is in a house with a woman who does not like him. And he's in. You may love him, but you don't like him.

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're in a house with a woman who is saying, what about me? What about me? What about me? What about me? What about me?

[Caller]

Yes. That's why I'm so selfish.

Well, about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you've probably said the words I feel a thousand times.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When's the last time you made him a cup of coffee? Just said, good morning.

[Caller]

I did. I do that every once in a while. I'll make him his. He's very routine oriented, so sometimes I will take on a part of his routine so he doesn't have to do it.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I just put that out there. It's not a thing I want everyone to go start doing today. But it's a. I can imagine he feels like he lives in a failure factory.

[Caller]

And I've heard you say that before.

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you might feel like you live in one, too, but the reality is, I think you left this marriage in January, too. And basically, like, all right, brother, you go ahead, you fix it. And you can't fix marriages like that. And at the same time, you can't carry his entire. If he doesn't want to forgive you, if he's just going to die bitter and angry, which people do.

[Caller]

Do, then.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I mean. But I think there's one more conversation that needs to be had.

[Caller]

Okay.

Yeah. I think that I have been saying a lot about, like, I guess my brain has. Has left the marriage, because my brain is like, nothing has changed, and I. I'm still here, and I'm just. Yeah, that's where I just feel like I'm kind of flapping in the wind like a flag and waiting for someone to, you know, do something. So. So. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let's just say six months of that hasn't gotten us anywhere. No, you can sit down tonight and say, hey, I want to talk to you, and I want no screens on, the phones down. I want the TV off. And say, tomorrow I made us an appointment to go see a marriage counselor. I want you to come with me. Or, hey, look, I've called my attorney again, and I'm gonna get the papers drawn up that we were gonna divorce in January. It's clear you're not interested in forgiving me, and it's clear that you're not interested in us working together on Getting answers. And I'm becoming somebody I don't want to be. And so I'm willing to call this if that's what you want to do. Or you can sit him down and say, hey, for three weeks after the money marriage, after we got back on the same page, things were pretty amazing. And I saw finally, the first time, a little pin light. But I don't want to delude myself, but there's, there's, there's the.

[Co-host]

He.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He knows you don't like him. He knows your heart, mind and body and spirit don't like him. Most people don't want to sleep with somebody that doesn't like them. And he sounds like he is really slow playing this thing, and he's not interested in things being different. He kind of likes things the way they are. And you're not okay with that. And so I hesitate to say this again, but gotta turn the lights back on and turn the music back off because y' all slip back into the same dance. Or right now he's just dancing. Was that Billy Idol? He's dancing with himself in the middle of the living room. And you're just got your arms crossed in the corner of the room, just staring at him saying, I don't like the way you're dancing. Let's just turn the lights on and say, hey, dude, what are we doing? You can't say, I don't know. I. I want you to finally take the lead on some of this. What do you want to do next? Been therapy for six months and makes. Let's make some firm decisions and get on with our lives. We're 50 years old, for crying out loud. But I'm, I'm encouraged that after money, marriage, man, there was a light that came on and maybe he just said, you know what? It's going to be too much work to change everything. I'm out. I'm so sorry, Bri. Thanks for the call. We come back, a man asks if he should marry his girlfriend before moving in together. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right. Everyone is talking about therapy these days. And I often hear folks tell me privately, I don't think I've had any major traumas in my life. This is super important. Therapy is not just for people dealing with traumas. It can be for that, but it's also a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional well being. I see a therapist for both the big challenges from my past and to help me navigate the day to day challenges that pop up as a husband. As a dad, as a community member. And honestly, many of you should try therapy, too. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years of experience matching people with just the right therapist for them to get started. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time easily and for no extra cost. Listen, talk it out with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney hey, we're back real quick. Once a month I go into these meetings with Kelly and the team and we talk about the show metrics. And I continue to be stunned by the countless millions of people who tune in and watch this show on YouTube or the YouTube shorts, or who listen to the podcast on Apple and Spotify, whatever. And then I look at the subscriber counts. Y' all hit the subscribe button. It makes such a difference. There's a gap like hundreds of million. Please hit the gap. Help us close that gap. Just take a second to hit the subscribe button. It helps with studio stuff, it helps with guests, it helps with sponsorships, it helps with the whole kit and caboodle. But most importantly, when you hit the subscribe button and you continue to watch and listen to the show, it kicks it up into the algorithms and it makes the show available for more people for free. And that's what we're trying to do, is to help people change their marriages, change the way they raise their kids, and change their mental emotional health all across this country. Those changes are going to come from people inside their own homes and inside their own cars and inside, you know, their headphones saying, I'm going to make a change starting now. And you can help with that. Doesn't cost any money just to hit subscribe. So thank you so much for taking the time to do that. All right, let's go out to Salt Lake City, Utah, and talk to Scott. What's up, Scott?

[Caller]

Hi, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up, dude?

[Caller]

Hey.

So for context, I've been dating my girlfriend for the past seven months now, and I've been seeing a lot of content on marriage before moving in together. And I feel like me and her have been having a lot of really mature conversations. I asked her about these videos and what her thoughts were. She's not opposed to it, but she's not all for it either. And my question is, do I marry this girl before asking her to move?

Ella, me foreign.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're actually. Actually asking two different questions here. My answer to that, just for the data, for a hundred different reasons, is yes. The idea that we're going to practice being married as kind of a dry run to see if we want to do this forever. The data doesn't bear that out. In fact, it. It is. It's the last I've seen. Is inverse.

[Co-host]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It actually. You're practicing, but you each have a foot out of the door just in case. And so you get actually a distorted view of what. What. What actually. What actually is going on inside this relationship. And so, yes, I would recommend anybody that you get married before you decide that. You really lock up and say, we're gonna do this thing. And then you go before you both jump.

[Co-host]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But the bigger question I'm asking you is y' all have come to. Y' all been together seven months. You've had, in your words, mature conversations. I don't really know what that means, but y' all having mature conversations, and y' all have come to an impass, and I would call it a values impass. That. Why aren't you addressing that bigger issue?

[Caller]

Addressing the values in pass.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I mean. You've been watching content online.

[Co-host]

Or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me. Let me. You know what? I'm. Take a different direction. What do you want to do? Do you want to be married before you move in together? Forget what the Internet says. Forget what? What. Swipe up what real you're watching. What do you think is the best right move for you?

[Caller]

I keep thinking I want to marry her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, awesome. Why the rush? Why the rush to move in? Why the rush to get married?

[Caller]

The possibility of living together, doing things in a more combined fashion on a regular basis. The fact that she's spending so much time over here already.

And.

To just get on with life, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 28.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is she the person you want to spend the rest of your life with?

[Caller]

I think she's shown me a lot, bro.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got to be able to answer that question before you move in with someone and. Or marry them. How old is she?

[Caller]

She's 20.

[Co-host]

Oh, God.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What? She's 20? Yeah.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does she say about all of this?

[Caller]

She's told me she would marry me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My wife told me yesterday she would get the oil changed if I needed to. Needed her to. I, I, here's the deal. I don't like the fact that you can't say, this is the person I've met and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I don't like the fact that she's like, well, I guess if, if that's what we have to do, then we'll do that. I don't know why there's something doesn't. It just feels not right here. What is it? What am I missing?

[Caller]

It's me not answering the question of do I want to spend the rest of my life with this woman.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why can't you answer that question?

[Caller]

I can't. I definitely, I think the answer is yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then God help her and you don't move in together, okay? Please don't move in together. Don't put a 20 year old in this situation. Is she in college? Is she out of school? What is she doing?

[Caller]

She's.

She'S an entrepreneur, kind of like me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It didn't answer my question. Is she working? Is she out of school? What's she doing?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, she's working.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does she do?

[Caller]

She's got photography biz.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, there's just like a coyness around you that I can put my finger on. What am I missing here?

[Caller]

I think we're, I think where I'm getting tripped up is what it takes to get married and the fact that we have to have a ceremony. And it almost seems like we need to have that in a church. And we've had a conversation about what it would be like to go to.

Church.

But obviously we don't do that already. And I think what's preventing me of asking her the question is the fact that we don't have a church to get married in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you hear what you're saying?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think the answer to that is that, dude, it's gonna be pretty easy to find a church.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's, I mean, you're talking about a wedding venue as far as you're concerned. Like, like, well, just, just to be honest, it's, it's, it's sounding like madness. And I'll also say this. It's just, it's weighing on me. There is a huge gap. Huge gap. And it's the same numerically. There's a huge gap between 20 and 28 and 30 and 38. A massive gap in wisdom, in maturity and understanding what Life, how life works, a massive gap. You're 28. You don't, I mean, you're, you're worried about. I don't think I want to get married yet because I don't even know what, what building to go to to do the ceremony. Bro, you're so far away from being ready to be married to somebody. I guess I'm, I'm more confused with how you even got here.

[Caller]

We've had.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She was 19 when y' all met. You were 27.

[Caller]

She, she was 20 when we met.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so still 20. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So be honest with me, dude. What's the rush here? You have a 20 year old man who's just dated somebody for seven months.

[Caller]

It's been seven awesome months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But y' all haven't had the religion conversation to anybody's satisfaction. You haven't had the marriage conversation anybody's satisfaction. You don't even know if you want to marry her or not. You just want her around a lot. What do you, what do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I work full time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, great. What kind of entrepreneur are you?

[Caller]

I'm in small business acquisition.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do you make any money? Do you make enough money to take on the responsibilities of marrying a 20 year old entrepreneur who's starting her. Her life?

[Caller]

If you're asking me if we can survive on my income only, then yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not really what I'm asking. I'm asking just the broader picture of what it means to be married, especially when there's this big of a gap. Yeah, I guess the end of the day, brother, there's just a ton of unanswered questions. But let me, let me frame it in a different way for you. If I was the father of a 20 year old girl, my 9 year old, 11 years from now, she's 20, she says, Dad, I met this amazing guy, he's 28. I would want to go sit down and shake his hand and I want to go have a meal with that, with that guy, with you. And if I looked across the table and said, are you ready to love and honor and cherish my daughter for the rest of her life, to go to war on her behalf, to serve her, to love her forever. And your first thought was, well, you know, I'm kind of hesitating because I don't know what, I don't even know what church we should get married in. And I'm not really like ready to commit, but like, I saw some tick tocks and said we should get married before we moved into the Same house. I'd probably just get up and walk away because I. Not because I don't like you. You're just not ready for the, the commitment that is being a husband and saying till death do us part. I pick you and I'm going to choose to love you every minute of every day. Because I got people that call into this show that run down to the JP and get married because they're ready to do life together. It's not like, well, I guess I will if you will. It's like, well, I mean, I would, but I don't even know what building. And we should probably go to church, but we don't even go to church yet, man, you're just a long way off, brother. And so you've said you've had some mature conversations. I don't know what that means. I would ask some deeper questions. And you, my friend, need to get some men who have been married for a while and begin having regular meetings with those dudes as a form of mentorship. What does it actually mean to be a husband? What does it mean to be a husband and a business owner? Small business acquisition entrepreneur, as you say. Like, what does it mean to take on these responsibilities? How do I love a 20 year old who's still in the process of growing up and trying to decide what she wants to do and how she wants to do it and does she want to go back to school? Does she. All those things? How do I do that? Because it's a skill set and man, you're not there yet. So that's what I got to say. Yes, I think people should get married before they move in together. And maybe I can do a whole other show on that if people want that one day. But as for you, just what you're telling me. Yeah, I think it's. I think it's time to hit the brakes on this thing, man, and go slow. Seven awesome months. Cool. Have 24 awesome months. Go on some trips together, have some fights together. Get really upset with each other and repair that relationship. Have some big talks about kids and big talks about jobs and big talks about homes and big talks about faith. Big talks about money. How we're gonna. Our household, how we're gonna work together to finance our household. Like, have those big conversations before you decide to say, like, yep, let's just. You know what? It'd be easier if we live in the same apartment and I watch Tick Tock a few times. Let's go ahead and just get married. Yeah, I want to have some way Bigger conversations. Thanks for the call, brother. We come back, a woman wonders if her marriage is salvageable due to her husband's addictions. All right, I want to talk about supplements for a second. I'm so sick of hard working men and women and moms and dads being fed lines about how important supplements are, but then having to go to a local store and choose from an onslaught of cheap, crummy supplements. Most of which is garbage. There's lots of fancy labels and bottles, but zero substance. I'm not playing that game. And neither is the supplement company that I've been with for over a decade. Thorne. I've been taking Thorn supplements for more than 10 years. They are pure, they are clean, and they are what professional athletes across the world take and trust. But more importantly, I give Thorne supplements to my family members, including my kids, because I trust them. Period. Whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, or a dad trying to show up for his family after a long day at the office, you deserve the best. And when it comes to supplements, I want proof, not hype. Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing, but not thorn. 35% of their employees work in quality control and they reject 15% of their raw materials. Because good enough isn't good enough. It's why pro athletes, olympic teams, and 60,000 doctors plus trust Thorne. And that's why I trust them, too, by the way. Thorne works. So stop guessing what's going into your body. Take what it actually needs. And nothing it doesn't. Go to thorne.com udelony to get 25% off your entire order. When you create an account that's T-H-O-R-N-E.com, the letter U/Deloney. It's what I take. It's what my family takes. And I want you to try them out, too. All right, let's go out to the home of Nirvana and Pearl Jam and talk to Liz. What up, Liz?

[Caller]

Hey. Hey, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. What's up?

[Caller]

My husband and I have lived separately for the last year and a half due to his addictions and anger issues. And I'm wondering if our marriage is even salvageable at this point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm so sorry. Is he sober?

[Caller]

He's trying to be sober.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he sober?

[Caller]

I don't think so.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Which tells me you're still not safe, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm sorry. What's his. What's what is he using to help him get through a day?

[Caller]

It's A combination of porn, nicotine, and marijuana.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me who he becomes. What's your experience of him? When he's using.

[Caller]

It'S just a completely different person. And when he's not using, that's where the anger comes out.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's happened in his life that you. You may or may not know what's happened in his life that he just cannot rest in his own skin?

[Caller]

I'm not entirely sure. I know that he grew up kind of in a very fear based, controlling parental situation. He's still very enmeshed with his mom and dad. We lived with them for three years before I moved out with our kids because of what's going on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow. Is he still living there?

[Caller]

He is.

And I've asked him to try to get his own living situation just so he can figure out what it means to be a self sufficient adult and figure out what he wants and who he is. And he tells me they're his safety net. And that breaks my heart.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, because when y' all got married, y' all became each other's safety net.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm sorry. How long were y' all married? Three years.

[Caller]

You said eight years. We lived with his parents for three years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

After five years, why'd you move in with his parents?

[Caller]

We had our second kiddo and the plan was for me to stay home. So I quit my job and we moved in with them to save for a house. And it just.

It didn't happen.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, you tell me. Yes, I think marriages are salvageable. If somebody has had a history with addiction and puts in the work, I absolutely 100% think that things are salvageable. Not only are they salvageable, they can be amazing. But people have to do the work. And you've already nailed it on the head. He's got to get out of his parents house and he's got to get his own two feet underneath him. And he has to learn how to take care of himself before he can in any way feel up to the task and. Or capable of the task of taking care of a family. I'm so sorry. How many kids do you have?

[Caller]

2.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are they?

[Caller]

4 and 6.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How have they lived through this whole mess?

[Caller]

My son's learning the anger and my daughter's teachers don't even know their dad's name.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your son is experiencing the anger because he is absorbing all of his tension everywhere. And little boys often express it and girls eat it, so she's probably experiencing it too. She may be experiencing it through people pleasing or just being Quiet or just trying to stay in a shadow. But she's experiencing it, too.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what do you want to do?

[Caller]

I've been wanting to fight for a marriage, and I've been. I feel like I have been fighting for the last year and a half, begging him to go to counseling for himself, to get out of that house and be his own person.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you function as a maternal figure for him? Were you his mom when you were married, too?

[Caller]

Probably, yeah.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you make sure he was where he needed to be and make sure he'd brushed his teeth and make sure the dishes were done and make sure the kids were. I mean, it was at your job, too, on top of working.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

See, he just doesn't want to live a life without a mommy there. And unfortunately, he's got one at home ready to take him back. And he can smoke weed and watch porn and just not engage in his life while you're trying to raise these two little kids. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, man. Those kids deserve more than that. And you do, too. So I would say this. This isn't about addiction. This is about a kid struggling with some pretty significant demons that is just choosing to say, I'd rather stay here in my mommy's house and my daddy's house, then go take the responsibilities of being a husband and being a dad that I signed up for.

[Caller]

He. He constantly tells me, like, well, I'll move in today because, you know, I got myself an apartment. I've got a full time job, ptsa, mom, doing all the things, extracurriculars. And he's like, I'll move in today if you'd let me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course he would. And he expects you to do his.

[Caller]

Laundry and wants to. He says he wants to lead the family. And I don't know, at any point in time when he's done that, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want a hundred billion dollars. Yeah, I'm not really working towards that. Have you. I realize what I'm about to say is putting yet another responsibility on you that you don't deserve. Okay, can we just agree this is lame that I'm doing this?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Like, I want everyone listening to know this is not on you. Yet here we are. Okay. Have you given him a path of the. A path back? And here's what I would mean. Here's the deal. For three years, you have not lived up to the role and responsibility of being my husband or being the parent, the father of these kids. You're struggling with all kinds of addiction, from pornography to smoking Weed all the time. And I. You're opting out of our life. So here's what a path back would look like. Number one, you go to a counselor. Number two, you get two jobs. Number three, you have your own apartment for six months. Number four, you get an exercise kit. I'm making stuff up right now. You accomplish these things, and I will wait for six more months before I terminate this marriage. But basically, you. This isn't your job. Because he's like, I want to be a leader. Maybe he does, and he doesn't. Doesn't even have a path, and he clearly doesn't have Instagram to find some of these bros out there telling you how to, like, be a good husband and a role model. But here we are, the Gotman's talk about love maps. I. I like to call them road maps, but, like, giving somebody a path back here is the path. Might be helpful here. You may have done that 50 times already.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've. I've given him a list of. Of things. And, you know, throughout all of these struggles that we've had, and this is where I feel like we get kind of stuck is in this. You know, when we got to his parents and things just were getting really toxic with unsolicited parenting advice and just constant, you know, criticism of, oh, you're not working. You need to get a job. Then I got a job. Well, now you shouldn't be working. You should be doing this instead and just not having the support from him. I ended up having an emotional affair, and when I came clean about it and had ended it, that is now on his side, he's like, well, you're the one who cheated on me and took the kids and left.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, Dave. That's the story he wants to cuddle up with at night so he can sleep, and so be it.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you sleep with somebody else?

[Caller]

No.

[Co-host]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you go. Did you reach out to somebody else for emotional support?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You've owned it. You put on the table. And if he is choosing to stay married with you, then he is choosing to go all in, put both feet back in the boat. Not to keep one foot and both arms in mommy's house and to hold you hostage. If he feels justified in leaving, then he needs to pack up his big boy suitcase and leave. But holding you hostage is not the way you heal from that. It's the way he holds some illusion of power now that he's never had because he doesn't want to work, and he doesn't want to be a Present father. And he doesn't want to be a household leader, which actually, by the way, means getting underneath the whole thing and lifting it up. It doesn't mean doing whatever you want whenever you want to.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I hear both people have made decisions that we take back. One person is saying, I put mine on the table.

[Co-host]

Here we are.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I became somebody I did not want to become. I called it, I ended it. Here we are. And he's like, well, I'm gonna go to my mom's house. Which I don't have a lot of disdain for people. I'm just a pretty accepting person. But guys like this get under my skin because they've got two little kids. And I don't care what you feel like you have a responsibility in a job. And. And you said, I do, and you're continuing to stay married. And so you have responsibilities to get back in their arena, and he's not. So the deal is, Liz, I can't tell you what to do next. I can just tell you I don't think we're dealing with a. An addiction issue. I think we're dealing with, you don't respect the man that you're married to, and you don't. He's not doing respectable things right now, and here we are. And those two kids need their dad. Not the man child that's living at home smoking weed, playing video games.

[Co-host]

But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The dad that can't wait to see him when he gets home. Tell me why you're crying.

[Caller]

I feel like I didn't see this person before we got married. And now my kids are suffering the consequences.

I'm an adult.

I'll be okay. But they're already learning from this behavior.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And in these kind of moments, the only thing we can do is do the next right thing, which I say all the time. But it sounds to me like you're doing that. You had to go get a job. You're doing that. You had to get them a safe place to live. You're doing that. You're showing up and being present for them at school. You're doing that. It's not ideal. It's not the best case scenario, especially with dad just sitting right across the street in his mom's basement smoking weed. But you're making the best. You're doing the next right thing. You leaned up on somebody emotionally that. That violated your values and his values, and you called it out. I mean, you did that. You're doing the next right thing.

[Co-host]

And.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can grieve what should be, and you can Grieve what is. And you get to decide whether you want to stay in this marriage, you want to give him another, I don't know, another shot, or leave them. You get to decide what to do there. I'll tell you, the ambiguity is what's going to be hard. Your, your kids absorbing mom's one foot in and one foot out and trying to manage this. But also they're going to absorb all of that. And by the way, the narrative he will paint to your kids is your mom's a cheater and your mom left me. That will be the story. And anytime we're in this situation, you're playing a 10 or 15 year game, you want to continue to show up and be a person of high, high, high integrity and love and presence. And through years of feeling that your kids will get that message. It'll be uncomfortable and awkward and hard and full of tears and mad and all that which nobody wants for the children. But here we are. Yeah, this one, this one, this one gets me, Ma', am, because you just got a guy staying at home with his parents who's not willing to step up to his responsibilities. And I know he's got some demons, he's got some challenges, etc, but honest, look directly at the camera, dude, you got a wife at home. Fine, she messed up. She's asked you to come home and you said, I will come home, but on my terms. You got two kids that are, that are just floundering right now. It's on you. Put on your big boy pants, get out of your mommy's house, quit smoking weed, delete your computer screens, quit looking at pornography, go see a counselor, go to a gym, go get two jobs and practice leading, which I will say one more time is not about my wife and kids. Do what I say. That is not leadership. Leadership is getting underneath the whole thing and saying, because I'm a sturdy presence in this chaos, I'm free to love y' all recklessly. And y' all are free to live recklessly, wild love filled lives. So, Liz, it's your move. But I'm looking at husband here in this picture, in this camera, bro. It's your move. We'll be right back. All right, it's time for a word about my favorite mattress on the planet Helix. Summer is here and everyone is all over the place. We're all doing some last minute traveling. I'm already getting school supplies, emails. I'm getting questions about fall work schedules and more. And right this minute, my family and I are trying to soak up the last long nights of summer before the fall chaos fully kicks in. I'm staying up later and I'm still getting up super early.

[Co-host]

And.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if I'm honest, my sleep is kind of a mess. And like you, when I'm not sleeping well, I'm short with my family members, I'm grumpy with my kids, and everything feels harder than it should. Good sleep is the foundation of me being the father and the husband and the friend and the community member that I need to be. And this is why I love sleeping on a Helix mattress. Before Helix, I tried all kinds of mattresses. Some were too soft, some were too stiff. Some had memory foam that felt like quicksand. You name it, I've tried it. But Helix matched me with the perfect mattress based on how I sleep and who I sleep next to. My wife. Yes, that's right. They even have options for couples who need different feels on the same bed. It's incredible. I want you to take the Helix Sleep quiz just like I did. It takes less than two minutes and they're going to match you with the right mattress just for you. And right now, my audience can save big during their Labor Day sale with the best offer you're going to find anywhere. 27% off site wide exclusive for listeners of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Go to helix sleep.com DeLoney and get 27% off site wide. That's Helix H L I x helix sleep.com Deloney with Helix. Better sleep starts right now. All right, we're back. Kelly, help us out, man. This is a dark episode, dude.

[Co-host]

All right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's one of those molasses episodes, you know? Yeah, it's just like there's no easy paths other than right.

[Co-host]

No clear answers.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

People just act like grown ups. And God Almighty want people act like grown ups. That's all I have to say about that.

[Co-host]

Would you like some cool crap that happened?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would love some cool crap that happened.

[Co-host]

All right, so this is from Joshua in Chillicothe, Ohio.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where?

[Co-host]

Chillicothe, Ohio.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where?

[Co-host]

Chillicothe sounds awesome.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was thinking about Ohio, but whatever, go ahead.

[Co-host]

All right. And he writes, he says, I just had to share something awesome that happened recently. And it only been happened because I actually listened to your advice. My daughter and I took a little adventure to our go to theme park. It's only about 90 miles away or 90 minutes away. So we're regulars and we don't think twice about popping in for just a few hours. This one turned into something extra special. We kicked things off with two rides that had my stomach doing backflips. I was not feeling great, but I told my daughter that I would push through because we were going to make a day of it. Fast forward to around five o' clock and I very casually asked if she was ready to head out. Her response? Nope. She looked me straight in the eyes and declared, we're closing this thing down tonight.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Co-host]

We hit every ride, laughed until our faces hurt, and didn't stop until after the park closed. Only after a magical night ride on her favorite roller coaster in a full on fireworks finale. These are the final. These are the funeral moments. And for that I thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, funeral moments. Dude, I love epitaph moments when you have like, dad, let's go get tacos and ice cream. Dude, it's midnight. You need to go back to sleep. Come on. And you go, all right, let's do it. You can't do that all the time, obviously. But man, good for you, dad. It's the stories they'll tell at your funeral. Those moments. I. Dude, I love it. I love it, I love it. It would have been so much easier just to be exhausted and tired and go home at 5 and she would have sat in the backseat and gone along with it. But dude, you put. You pushed through. And can we all just say that's hot and miserable. It just is. And it can be magical. But dude, that's four more hours of bathrooms lines and bad hot dogs and hot and whatever. Good for you, dad. That makes me happy in my heart. That just lifted me back up. Good job, dude. Good job. That's an adult acting like. Actually, that's an adult acting like a kid and loving it. So way to go. Act like adults. Adults. Except when you're at a theme park with your child and then let the inner kid loose. Love you guys. Bye.