My Husband Doesn’t Want Sex Since I’ve Gained Weight

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show – "My Husband Doesn’t Want Sex Since I’ve Gained Weight"

Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, hosted by the Ramsey Network, Lynn from Atlanta reaches out with a deeply personal and challenging situation. She shares her struggles with her husband's lack of sexual attraction following her weight gain, compounded by her battles with depression and anxiety. Dr. John DeLoney provides compassionate guidance, exploring the complexities of their relationship and offering actionable advice for healing and communication.

Caller Introduction: Lynn's Dilemma [00:05 - 01:43]

Lynn opens up about her marital struggles:

Lynn [00:05]: "About a year ago, my husband had confided in me that he was no longer sexually attracted because I had gained a significant amount of weight. I had been suffering with depression, anxiety, and was put on antidepressants."

This admission sets the stage for a profound discussion on the intersection of mental health, physical changes, and relationship dynamics.

Understanding the Root Causes [02:29 - 05:48]

Dr. DeLoney empathetically acknowledges Lynn's pain and delves deeper into the underlying issues:

John DeLoney [01:56]: "Well, tell me more about it. I know that's really hard to hear... If he just threw a grenade at you and was ugly about it, then that's a whole different conversation."

Lynn explains how her antidepressants led to weight gain, disrupting her previously active lifestyle:

Lynn [02:32]: "I had been suffering with some depression, anxiety, so I sought out some help and was put on antidepressants. And that had started the weight gain..."

Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the importance of honoring both partners' honesty and the need for open dialogue:

John DeLoney [03:50]: "It was devastating to hear."

Navigating Emotional Turmoil [05:48 - 12:40]

The conversation shifts to the emotional aftermath of the revelation. Dr. DeLoney highlights the cyclical nature of unresolved conflict:

John DeLoney [05:48]: "You've been beat yourself up over it, but I've also chosen to hang on to it for a year. Am I carrying that anymore... you're on a treadmill. You're on a loop."

Lynn shares her attempts to address the issue without resolution, feeling trapped in a repetitive cycle:

Lynn [05:55]: "And that's pretty much been... We just try and avoid having the conversation again."

Encouraging Grieving and Honest Communication [10:00 - 19:00]

Dr. DeLoney guides Lynn toward acknowledging her grief and the necessity of confronting the pain directly:

John DeLoney [10:00]: "Have you told him that he broke your heart?"

Lynn [10:06]: "Yeah."

He advises her to engage in sincere conversations with her husband and consider marriage counseling:

John DeLoney [17:55]: "I think y'all are worth sitting down and having that rebuild conversation."

Addressing Deeper Emotional Blocks [19:00 - 34:08]

The discussion broadens to explore the deeper emotional struggles Lynn faces, including her self-worth and ongoing depression. Dr. DeLoney encourages her to seek professional help and to focus on her personal growth:

John DeLoney [09:22]: "Lynn, I don't care about other people. I don't care about social media... You're choosing to take those bricks and put them in a backpack and collect them and keep them as though it's a reflection of you."

He underscores the importance of making the "next right move," whether it's adjusting her medications, increasing physical activity, or enhancing her emotional resilience.

Steps Toward Healing and Rebuilding [34:08 - 39:48]

Dr. DeLoney emphasizes actionable steps Lynn can take to move forward:

1. Seek Counseling:

   John DeLoney [39:04]: "You have two... you're going to call a counselor in your local area before the day's over."

2. Self-Love and Acceptance:

   Lynn [12:32]: "It's so much more than a number on a scale."

3. Open Dialogue and Boundaries:

   John DeLoney [15:57]: "And I want you to go sit with a marriage counselor and have that conversation."

Conclusion and Forward Path [39:48 - 42:51]

As the conversation draws to a close, Dr. DeLoney reiterates the significance of Lynn's journey toward self-acceptance and the health of her marriage. He encourages her to define her own path and to actively engage in healing:

John DeLoney [42:27]: "You're going to get burned, you're going to get scars and you have those things. But this is how you bring peace to great grandkids you may never meet."

Notable Quotes

• Lynn [00:05]: "About a year ago, my husband had confided in me that he was no longer sexually attracted because I had gained a significant amount of weight."

• John DeLoney [09:22]: "Are you stuck in the depression loop? Are you stuck in not liking who you see when you look in the mirror?"

• John DeLoney [10:00]: "Have you told him that he broke your heart?"

• John DeLoney [15:57]: "And then y'all need to go sit down with the marriage counselor and have that conversation because there's something deeper going on there."

Key Insights and Takeaways

1. Honest Communication is Crucial: Both partners need to engage in transparent and compassionate dialogue to address underlying issues.

2. Grieving is a Necessary Step: Acknowledging and grieving the pain are essential for moving forward and breaking free from emotional loops.

3. Professional Help is Beneficial: Seeking counseling can provide structured support and facilitate healthier communication patterns.

4. Self-Love and Acceptance: Embracing oneself, irrespective of physical changes, is vital for mental well-being and relationship health.

5. Setting Boundaries: Establishing clear boundaries helps in redefining the relationship dynamic and promoting mutual respect.

Final Thoughts

This episode poignantly addresses the intricate balance between personal struggles and marital harmony. Dr. John DeLoney's compassionate approach offers Lynn—and listeners alike—a roadmap for navigating emotional challenges, fostering honest communication, and prioritizing self-love. The profound discussion underscores the importance of addressing both individual well-being and the health of one's relationships to achieve lasting harmony and fulfillment.

Transcript

[Lynn]

About a year ago, my husband had confided in me that he was no longer sexually attracted because I had gained a significant amount of weight. I had been suffering with depression, anxiety, and was put on antidepressants.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, yikes. What up? What's going on? This is John, the Dr. John DeLoney Show. Man, I am a ball of chaos this morning, man. I am running late all over the place. I tried to do 714 things this morning. Kelly, you look beautiful.

[Kelly]

I thank you, first of all. And I know you're saying that because you were late this morning.

[John DeLoney]

Listen.

[Kelly]

But I appreciate it nonetheless.

[John DeLoney]

And we have Andrew number three on the YouTubes today. Do you want to tell them what you did last time you were in that chair? No.

[Kelly]

If that's where we're going, then you have to tell every time you mess something up.

[John DeLoney]

Let's go to Atlanta and talk to Lynn. Hey, Lynn. What's going on, man? Hey.

[Lynn]

How's it going?

[John DeLoney]

I'm good. What's up in your world?

[Lynn]

Quite a bit, actually.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, man. Well, jump on in. What's up?

[Lynn]

Yeah. About a year ago, my husband had confided in me that he was no longer sexually attracted because I had gained a significant amount of weight.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lynn]

So I am really looking for guidance on how I can kind of get through that. It's been a rocky year since that conversation.

[John DeLoney]

Well, tell me more about it. I know. I know that's really hard to hear. And if that's a loving, direct, like, I just want to be honest and not hold secrets back. That can be a really hard, hard conversation. But I want to honor both his honesty with you and Yalls ability to sit at a table and have this hard conversation. If he just threw a grenade at you and was ugly about it, then that's a whole different conversation. But what led up to that conversation? And then tell me about the last year.

[Andrew]

Well.

[Lynn]

I had been suffering with some depression, anxiety, so I sought out some help and was put on antidepressants.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, yikes.

[Lynn]

And that had started the weight gain. So before then, I'd typically been pretty good shape, very active and whatnot. But we both kind of noticed, like, hey, the weight gain is, like, coming on a little bit quicker. And as active as I am, I can't get it off.

[John DeLoney]

Did the meds kill your libido, too?

[Lynn]

A little bit, yeah. But so shortly, like, after that, I was, you know, seeking more counseling and whatnot. Finally got to a place where I'm like, you know what I really need to love myself for who I am for how I am at this time in my life. It's a season. We'll get through it, blah, blah, blah. So I come home one day, and I'm like, sit down with him. And I'm like, you know what? I really need to love myself for who I am. It's not about how much I look, what I look like, or what size I am. Like, this. We will get over it. And he just looked at me and said, I'm sorry, but I can't. Like, this is not attractive to me.

[John DeLoney]

And so take me back to that moment when you had that conversation. Here's what it sounds like. It sounds like a collision of both people. However hard or messy it is, both people sitting down there telling the truth.

[Lynn]

Yeah. And that's. It was devastating to hear.

[John DeLoney]

What was. Was it devastating about him putting on the table, hey, things have changed physically between us, or was it devastating that you said, hey, I'm struggling. I'm going to be in a season, and I want you by my side? And he said, I'm not doing that.

[Lynn]

A little bit of both. But it almost felt like, had you been lying to me up until this point? Like, are you just faking it? And that's why I can't get over.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so take me back to the last year.

[Lynn]

While a distance. You know, we did have conversations, and exactly, like, what you said. He was like, you know, it's really hard for me to say this to you, but I need to be honest. And, you know, we need to have those hard conversations as much as you don't want to hear those. But I just feel like maybe there could have been a different approach. And it was just. It felt really like a punch in the gut when it was, hey, you know what? I just came back from this counseling session. I feel good about where I'm at. And he's like, yeah, no, sorry.

[John DeLoney]

Have you. Have you honored him with that same level of honesty you just gave me?

[Lynn]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Because here's the deal. It's been. We're a year past, and I'm more interested in deciding, in listening and hearing about where you are right now. Y'all, too. And the plans you and he have for moving forward. Because. Because what's been said has been said. And going back to that punch in the gut moment. Going back and going back, going back. It's just. You're on a treadmill. You're on a loop. Yeah.

[Lynn]

And that's pretty much been. It's. I. We just try and avoid having the conversation again.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lynn]

One part of the conversation we have is like, hey, look, I know how much it hurt you for me for you to hear me say these things, but I can't change the way he's feeling either. So it is, you know, hey, we're all great until we have to have that conversation.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. But you're not all great, because conflict deferred is conflict amplified. This is building inside of you like a. Like a. Like a demon. And I, I, I, again, I wasn't at the table. And I know this can be hard to hear on either side. I know there's men listening to this going, oh, my gosh, he said it's. And I know there's women listening to this conversation going, I can't believe he said it. And it's not just men and women in this conversation, because I've taken equally amount, if not more of the roles being reversed here. Right. The challenge here is somebody has to break the dance, right? Because he's got a demon grown in him, which is. I tried to tell the truth. I was trying to be encouraging. And I promise you. I promise you, his focus on you've gained weight. So I'm not sexually attracted to you. Is bigger than a number on a scale. I promise you. I'd be willing to bet money he feels like he's lost his wife and he is looking in his toolkit on how to reconnect with her. And most men, most of the time, only have one path towards connection, and that's sexual. So he keeps. And most men. That is their. That's their. I was gonna say dipstick. That for, like. That's their dipstick. That's the way they. That's the way they. They check the engine to see how things are going in their relationship. So he keeps opening his. His toolkit, and there's just that one. That one hammer in there. That's it. And so I promise you it's more than the numbers on a scale, but at the same time. And so he's, like, sitting there going, I'm trying to be honest. I'm trying to tell you I miss you. I don't know where you've been. I don't know what's up. And then at the same. And then you're on the other side of this thing.

[Lynn]

Right?

[John DeLoney]

See what I'm saying? And so somebody. And you've heard me say this. This is exactly what I mean. Somebody has to turn the lights on and turn the music off because you. You are. Y'all are pretending that everything's okay. And underneath this, you are wounded by what he said, you're heartbroken that he wasn't right. Or die with you when you needed him the most and he is desperately missing his wife. Or maybe he's just a terrible person, but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here. What do you think? You think he's a. You think he's a scumbag? Is he a bad dude?

[Lynn]

He'd been married for 25 years.

[John DeLoney]

You tell me. You know him way more than I do.

[Lynn]

Yeah, no, he's, you know, he's a great guy, but like I said, this is it. Just. I just can't seem to pass it.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so what's your next move?

[Lynn]

I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

Are you stuck in the depression loop? Are you stuck in not liking who you see when you look in the mirror? Are you stuck not loving your husband? Like, where are you locked in?

[Lynn]

I wasn't. Well, I didn't think I was stuck in that depression loop, but now I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Because it feels like him sitting down at the table and being honest with you. It feels like that year ago conversation is as fresh right now as it was back then.

[Andrew]

Yep.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. I'm going to tell you every. Like, the most important thing is to head right in the middle of that hurt and to stop going around it. Have you told him that he broke your heart?

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you told him? Thank you for being honest with me?

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lynn]

There isn't or wasn't much that we would not say to. You know, we're very honest with each other, regardless of how hard that truth is. I just never expected to feel what I did, hearing it.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And feelings, we talk about this often here. Like, feelings are their information, their data, and they're designed to keep you safe. They were never designed to be an arbiter of truth. And so my bigger question is, with a couple who has dedicated themselves to radical honesty, we're gonna tell each other the truth. We're never gonna be able to not talk about something. My bigger concern is. Or a. I want to. I want to compliment you guys on that. I'm working on an event right now, and last night, up to 1am, I was working on a part of the event which was about couples don't tell each other the truth. They just don't because they're scared of reality.

[Lynn]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

You're here in reality. The path out of reality always takes two steps. Number one, you gotta grieve it. And you haven't done that you're still stuck in the moment.

[Lynn]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And I can't tell you what you need to grieve, but I want you to be honest with yourself. Are you grieving the fact that, you know, you've put on a lot of weight, you know, you've been struggling with depression and that it got called out? Are you grieving? I can't figure out what you're upset with your husband about because you're saying, yeah, I have gained a lot of weight. Yes. I don't know what you want him to say or do or that you wished had been different. Like, if he had said. If you had sat down and said, I'm going to be me for a season. I'm going through a rough period. I've gained a lot of weight. I'm taking these meds. This is just a season. And, like, what would. What would you have wanted him to say in that moment?

[Lynn]

I'm not sure, but I. I know, like, weight has never been something that has attracted me to him or not. I've never looked at weight and said, oh, that you're attractive or you're not attractive.

[John DeLoney]

It's.

[Lynn]

It's so much more than a number on a scale.

[John DeLoney]

And is it the same for him?

[Lynn]

That's. You know, I thought it was until we had that conversation.

[John DeLoney]

And you think it just. It is just. It is just about an aesthetic. He only loves you as far as he is. He's attracted to seeing you.

[Lynn]

I shouldn't say that. He only loves me that way. I think that's where, like, their heart came in, is like, you're only physically attracted to me if I'm this size.

[John DeLoney]

Gotcha. Maybe that's the case most.

[Lynn]

That's never been, like, I think through our whole relationship, I've never looked at him and, you know, we've both gone up and down.

[John DeLoney]

Sure. Of course, in weight.

[Lynn]

I mean, you know, we were teenagers when we met, so, you know, things, life happens, whatnot. And I've never looked at him and said, I'm not attracted to you because you're too skinny or you're over a little overweight, whatever.

[John DeLoney]

What I'm interested in is, again, I want to circle back. He's not on the phone, so I can't up or down what he's saying. My guess is when you sat down and said, hey, you've missed me for a long time. I've been wrestling with this stuff. I've been meeting with my doctors, been meeting with my counselors. I'm taking my medications. I'm going to make peace with this season, and it's going to be a while longer. I may be out to lunch, and people are going to light me up on the Internets, and that's fine. I'm willing to bet after a quarter century, him saying, well, I'm just not attracted to you because of the weight gain was a awful, terrible way of saying, I've missed my wife for the last two years and I can't miss you for another year.

[Lynn]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

That's. That's my guess as to what he was trying to get across to you. And he did a terrible job of making you feel comforted and safe in that moment.

[Lynn]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

But look, so here's the thing. You need to either grieve that you have. You've been with a terrible person for a quarter century, that he's a man who will only walk alongside you if you look. Right, if you're a trophy for him.

[Andrew]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And if that's the case, I hate that for you. I hate that for you. Because you're worth more than that. Or what I hear you saying. And maybe again, I could be out to lunch here. What you need to grieve is that Bonehead said the stupidest, worst way of saying, I love you and I miss my wife, and I don't know what to do. And he just did a terrible job of telling you that.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

One of those. I'm going to grieve. And I've got some hard conversations to have with me and my counselor and some girlfriends that I trust and a local minister if I go to church. Like, I gotta have some hard conversations about the trajectory of my marriage.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

The other is, I need to sit down and say, next time I come to you in pain, if you bring up my pant size, I'm gonna bop you upside. Like, right. It's about grieving what was. And then now I'm gonna set that brick down because I know I got a guy who loves me. He just always says the dumb wrong thing.

[Lynn]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And then I'm going to be about healing. Yeah, but you have to, like, you're sitting in the reality. He said it. You felt it. But it's been a year, and it's trapped you. And either way, I want you to decide to set down what he said because it's keeping you from the next right move, which is what? What. What is the next right move for you? Have you talked to your doctor about weight gain? Have you talked to your doctor about, hey, we've been on these same meds for two or three or four years. And they're not working anymore. I keep having to up my dose. Are you exercising? Are you taking care? Are you sleeping? Okay? Like, talk to me about those things that actually change your physiology.

[Lynn]

I mean, that. That's the thing. It's. You know, we've kind of leveled out great on the weekend.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lynn]

Which is great. I mean, I work out every day. You know, I eat healthy and we're very active. So it's just. It's frustrating to see that, you know, there's effort and not result.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And maybe that's what you're grieving too. Yes. He said something stupid I want to like. But you're frustrated. You're frustrated. Have you talked to your doctor about that?

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And they just say, sorry, shake it off.

[Lynn]

No, I mean, we're. We're working on a plan, you know, but it's just right now I still need to be on that medication.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Well, I'm proud of you for staying on it during the season. Good for you. And is your husband avoiding you?

[Lynn]

No.

[John DeLoney]

Do you still catch him side eyeing you and being all ugly?

[Lynn]

You know, not so much.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. I think y'all are worth sitting down and having that rebuild conversation.

[Lynn]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

Like, you said this thing during a moment of weakness, and it hurt me. I've told you that I'm not going to keep beating you up over it, but I've also chosen to hang on to it for a year. Am I carrying that anymore? Working too hard, girl. Do you miss sleeping with him?

[Lynn]

I do.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you told him that?

[Andrew]

I have, yes.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And he just looks at you and goes, I don't care.

[Lynn]

You know, not in so many words.

[John DeLoney]

But yeah, then y'all need to go sit down with the marriage counselor and have that conversation because there's something deeper going on there. Every single couple on the planet fluctuates up and down.

[Lynn]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

Every single couple on the planet has, you know, for better or worse, sickness and health. That's. That's. That's life. That's marriage.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And it is a. And it's been my experience, and I know the YouTube comments are going to blow it up. It's been my experience that it's not the. It's not the norm for somebody to have a caliper on the person they love.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Right, Right.

[John DeLoney]

And usually weight gain just suddenly over or over time has other things attached to it. And I know that when I am. I'm £10 up right now than what I would like to be walking Around. I know that I struggle with confidence. I spend more time ducking. I spend more time shutting the door real fast. I spend more time with a shirt on, right? So I end up doing these little bitty, what I would call micro behaviors to hide myself. That has a downstream impact on how I'm seen. Do you get what I'm saying? It's the rare person that just says, up. You went to 6% body fat. I'm out. It's just a rare person. It almost always is a context. And I want you and him. And it sounds like y'all have had that conversation. I want y'all to get with a marriage counselor and have that deeper conversation because, again, maybe he is a scumbag. I'm not hearing that in your voice. I'm hearing that you're tired and you're frustrated. And, man, he said some stupid things and he doesn't have to show up. And let's get to the bottom of that one. And if he wants to call me dude, I'd love to talk to him, but there's something underneath what's going on. And I think you all have exhausted your ability to have that conversation together. I want you to go sit with a marriage counselor and have that conversation. I am proud of you, Lynn, for staying in the fight. Stay on the plane with your doctor. Stay on the plane. Stay on the plan. Stay on the plan. And maybe he'll find interest in getting some new skills and learning some new things so that he can navigate the roadmap. Back to back to you. Thanks for the call, sister. We'll be right back. Yo, I saw a headline the other day that made me want to set both of my ears and my nose on fire. One third of the United States population's background. Their information is now totally public. 115 million of us. Our personal, private information is just out there for anyone to find and do with what they please. 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Individual Delete Me plans start as low as nine bucks a month, helping to protect you from the risks of unwanted exposure and online scammers, spammers, stalkers and thieves. Go to joindelete me.com DeLoney today for 20% off. That's join j o I n deleteme.com DeLoney this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude, and most of us have a person or two we'd like to shout out for helping us out somewhere along our life's journey. I'd like to take a moment to thank two people who have transformed my life. One is the great Marilyn Fannin and two is the great and powerful Dr. Jean Will Thompson. Marilyn gave me a chance when no one should have. She brought me along and taught me poise and professionalism. And she challenged me when I needed help. And Jean Noel taught me how to be a dad, a husband, a professional, and how to balance the seemingly impossible weight of caring for a whole bunch of people all at the same time. Big time. Thanks to Marilyn and Jean Noel and for all you listeners. I know you have people in your own life that you're grateful for and hopefully you stop and thank them. But there's one person that we often don't take time to think enough ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're surviving or moving forward. We're grinding towards a better life, better relationships and a better world. And in a world where everything's gone bonkers, this isn't easy. So here's my reminder to thank the people in your life, including you. And sometimes we need more than just a thank you. We need some professional and personal help. We need to talk to someone who is trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially during the holiday seasons. That's why I recommend my friends a BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anytime, so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This holiday season, let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney all right, we're back. Let's go out To Philadelphia, where Rachel was born and raised and talked to Rachel. What's up, Rachel? How we doing?

[Andrew]

Hi, John. Thanks for taking my call.

[John DeLoney]

Of course. What's up?

[Andrew]

Well, I'm really nervous. I just want to say I'm really excited to be talking to you.

[John DeLoney]

I'm excited to be talking to you.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, out of everyone on, like, the Ramsey network, like, I wanted to talk to you in particular because you just. I just really like your show.

[John DeLoney]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. What's up?

[Andrew]

Well, I am just ready to pack up my bags and move away. So there's a lot of things that have been going on in my life in the past few years, and I've just been trying to figure it out. I really need an outside opinion.

[John DeLoney]

All right, jump in. I don't cannonball all the way in. Just cannonball. What's been going on?

[Andrew]

So a few years ago, honestly, it's right when Covid started happening, because that's when things kind of started to spiral out of control. I was in my first year of college. I was just figuring everything out. I dropped out of college right at the beginning, or not in the beginning. I sort of, sort, sort of toward the middle of my second semester of college, dropped out. Everyone else seemed to stay in college and, you know, just work through it, but I just couldn't do it. Covid was just a little bit too hard for me. I didn't have the strength to.

[John DeLoney]

It's all good. Keep going, Keep going, keep going. So you dropped out of college?

[Andrew]

I worked a part time job for a year. I realized I was a loser. I went back to finish online school, accelerated so I could graduated on time. In that time, I got a boyfriend who lived in Kentucky, and we moved to Florida together in October of 2021, and I worked at Disney World. I finished school. So now we're back here in good old Pennsylvania. And now I just seem to not know what I'm doing. I, you know, I have this boyfriend. I live in this apartment, I make a salary. I lost all my friends, and I seem to just hate this area now, and I want to go away.

[John DeLoney]

I don't think that's true.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Mm. I just, I really have so much, like, tied to this area of things that have happened here. And I've not really loved, like, the people. The people. The people are just ruder up north. Honestly, after living in Florida and like, visiting Kentucky a bunch of times, I'm just like, y'all are so much nicer down in the South.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, but just because everybody's carrying guns, so you kind of have to be. But, like. But here's the thing. You're right. There's geographical differences, and everybody's different. I've got friends who love the brashness and the. Just say it. Of Pennsylvania, New York. And I've got people who love the. Oh, well, isn't that sweet of, you know, East Tennessee. Like, everybody's all over the place. That's all good. You don't like you. Why?

[Andrew]

I don't know. I. I see people.

[John DeLoney]

Hold on. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Who cares about other people? I don't care about other people. I don't care about social media. I don't care what you're seeing, but you develop this. This story about.

[Andrew]

Because I haven't figured it out yet.

[John DeLoney]

I haven't either. My God, I'm in my mid-40s, and I'm a YouTuber now. I don't know. You know what I mean?

[Andrew]

Yeah. No, I do.

[John DeLoney]

Where's the story coming from?

[Andrew]

I've tried figuring it out so many times. You know, I look at myself in the mirror. I look at myself physically and as a person, and I look at the things that have happened around me in my life, and I look at what I feel is right and what I feel is wrong. I feel very alone. And I've had a lot of people leave me in my life.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And I don't know why.

[John DeLoney]

I'm gonna tell you right now why. Because they had stuff going on with them. People who were important to you, left you because they had stuff going on with them. Exhale into that. Because moms and dads aren't supposed to leave their kids, and brothers and sisters aren't supposed to leave their siblings and ride or die friends. Yes, you grow up and, yes, you grow apart and all that kind of stuff.

[Andrew]

Mm.

[John DeLoney]

But if somebody just walks away with you, who is supposed to stay? There's probably something going on in their life.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, like, I feel very confident in my boyfriend. That's, like, the only one person I feel confident.

[John DeLoney]

Here's the weird thing. I don't care about him. I care about you. Feeling confident in you.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

How old are you?

[Andrew]

I'm 23.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. This is the sucky season when your friends from high school and a couple of friends from college, when they go get oogie relationships or they get that job across the country, or you find out, like, oh, you, like. You think that's cool. You're a wine bar person. Oh, geez. Or like, oh, you golf a lot, right? Or like you got four cats. Like, you just find out about people and 23, you just start changing relationships and it's a bummer. It's heartbreaking that I'm most interested in why you have looked at the change in your life while you looked at your response to a global shutdown. You're not a loser for dropping out of college. You know how I know? Because millions of people took a break. They moved, they changed careers. They said, not right now.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

But like, when life drops a brick in your arms, you just keep taking that brick instead of carrying it for a bit. Pandemics are hard. Dropping out of college is hard. Having a plan is hard. Moving across the country is hard. Moving back to your hometown, ah, is even more Right. All those things are hard. But you're choosing to take those bricks and put them in a backpack and collect them and keep them as though it's a reflection of you.

[Andrew]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

What do you want? What do you want to do? No, let me. You know, I'm going to rephrase that question. It's too loaded. Who do you want to be? Rachel, Paint me a picture of who you want to be.

[Andrew]

I eventually want to be a person who can just have a sense of peace and serenity.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, Matt, Matt, be very specific about what that looks like. Because if you chase a feeling, you're going to end up on opiates. That's how you're going to get your sense of serenity. Because you think, you think making a million dollars, you think a loving relationship, you think a home, you think these are going to feel a certain way and they never do. And that's the big lie. What we want is peace from the inside out so that wherever you end up, you're whole there. And I know people who are teachers, who drive Corollas, who have a three bedroom, two bath house and they are happy as a lark because that's the life they chose. I know people who earn a million dollars a year and they can't breathe because they hate themselves. They're running and running and running and running.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I'm just tired of always like, like you kind of said, hating myself. And I'm always, I'm tired of it. And I want to work on that feeling.

[John DeLoney]

And here's the thing, here's the path out of that feeling is reality, truth. And so if your body said, I got to get out of going to college right now, that was true. And if you jokingly like, oh, such a loser, I dropped out of school, you can joke, fine. But the stories you tell yourself become your body's reality.

[Andrew]

Mm. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so what's the next right move? Like, paint me a picture of you at 28 years old. Where are you living?

[Andrew]

Like, where specifically?

[John DeLoney]

Be as specific as you possibly can. 28 years old. Five years from now, where are you living? Just from your gut, don't stop being. Stop being so rational. Just throw it out there. Where are you living?

[Andrew]

Probably in the middle of Colorado.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, you're in Colorado. Are you in a house, a condo, or in a. In a van?

[Andrew]

I'm in my house.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, how big is your house?

[Andrew]

Like, Max, three bedrooms.

[John DeLoney]

Awesome. So in the middle of Colorado, a three bedroom house is about $8 million. Right? I mean, I'm just making up. Okay, but look, are you with this guy or not?

[Andrew]

100%.

[John DeLoney]

Has he finally gotten around to marrying you?

[Andrew]

No.

[John DeLoney]

Well, that's dumb, but okay, talk about it. Well, you should, you know, you lived multiple states this time. Okay, do you have any kids?

[Andrew]

No.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, here's the deal. What are you doing for a living? What's your job?

[Andrew]

That's another thing. Right now I work at an ice cream shop.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, but you keep taking part time jobs, ice cream shop jobs. And then you beat yourself. You beat yourself up for taking those jobs. Either make peace with that, you love it, or take steps towards another thing.

[Andrew]

Yeah, this is. That's another part of the problem. Like I'm. I'm stuck. I'm. I'm working there full time and I make it. They actually just gave me a decent raise.

[John DeLoney]

What's a decent raise?

[Andrew]

So Now I make 66 a year.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Which was up from 55.

[John DeLoney]

You make $66,000 a year at an ice cream shop?

[Andrew]

Yeah, bro.

[John DeLoney]

Half my team's about to leave. Half my team was just. Yeah, okay, so here's the deal. Here's the thing. The great Irvin Yalom, he's. He's the father of existential psychology. Him and Rollo may like. So he always said this, and I love what he said because it's been a gift to me. This one sentence. Everything is data. So you make $66,000 managing an ICE cream shop in Philadelphia. Okay, yeah, Everything's data. Here's what that means. That's a pretty good living for that job, right?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

If you hate it, it's not a reflection of you. It's not because you're an ingrate. And oh my gosh, I'm the worst. It's data. I loved working at Burger King. When I was a teenager, I loved it. I just did. I liked all the chaos, the laughter, the shenanigans, the guys, like, smoking weed in the. In the parking lot. I loved it all. I loved all of it. Okay.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And I also love being a dean of students. I also love being a professor. I love being a YouTuber. You know what I found out about myself? Everything's data. I kind of dislike most of my jobs. There's a couple, though, that I hated. I like to be in a delivery boy at a print shop. I just. I like meeting people, so. Okay. So if you don't love this, great. Cool.

[Andrew]

That's a. That's another feel. Reason I feel like I need to get out because I feel like there's no more opportunity left here for me.

[John DeLoney]

No, it. You're trying to escape your own skin because you're going to move to Colorado and you're going to find it a scary thing. You went with you. If you pack up and move across the country, you're going to go with you.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I did it. I left the desert of West Texas and I came to the oasis that is middle Tennessee. It rains every day. There's trees and. Dude, it was a reckoning because I told myself that it was about trees and water and topography and weather. And it was me.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I had to deal with me because I moved with me to middle Tennessee. I was the guy married to my wife in a marriage that was hanging on by a piece of dental floss. But I wasn't ruined, and I wasn't a bad. A person of bad character. As a person who's really struggling, man, you get what I'm saying? You don't yell at a young kid who gets a headache. They're hurting. Let's deal with a headache.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out the cause of the headache, you know?

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. But while you're figuring out the cause of the headache, do the next right thing. What brings you joy, Rachel?

[Andrew]

That I also don't really know.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Andrew]

If you don't, and I still want.

[John DeLoney]

To figure it out, if you don't have a few things that bring you joy right off the top of your head, I want you to go sit down with a counselor today. Will you make that call today?

[Andrew]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

Because here's what that tells me. It tells me that you have a pair of glasses on. On how you're viewing the world. And unfortunately, those glasses have gotten dirty or the glasses have or need a different prescription. And it's. It's coloring how you see the world.

[Andrew]

I felt like I used to, but it just, like, is going away, especially as I get older.

[John DeLoney]

That's it. When you go talk to somebody, it could be any number of things.

[Andrew]

Mm.

[John DeLoney]

It could be your body trying to get your attention. It could be hormones. It could be levels in neurochemistry. It could be all kinds of things. But here's.

[Andrew]

I'm so emotional.

[John DeLoney]

I know. I think you're probably telling me the truth, and you probably haven't done that in a while. Not because you're lying, but because you don't think you're even worth having this hard conversation with. You think you should just be grateful for everything, and I should just be. And I should just be. And all these shoulds are burying you. Can I tell you what I see?

[Andrew]

Sure.

[John DeLoney]

Do you trust me not to. Not to lie to you?

[Andrew]

No. You don't know me. You can. You can tell me the truth.

[John DeLoney]

Here's what I see from the outside. I see a young woman who's, like, really good at smiling when somebody comes into the ice cream shop. And I mean that both literally and figuratively. You're good at smiling and putting on a brave face for people. And growing up was hard for you. True or false?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And you set out to prove people wrong, and a global pandemic, like, enveloped us all. And your body said, nah, I'm not doing that. And you thought it was because you're a bad person, but your body's been through enough over the first 18, 19 years of your life. And then you did a brave thing. You met some dumb boy, and you moved across the country, and then y'all moved again, and you finally are allowing yourself to believe you're worth being loved. And it feels like an electric fence because it feels so right. And it burns because you're scared to death. That doesn't mean you're broken. That means your body's like, whoa, we know what love feels like. It hurts. And you're like, I know, but I trust this guy. And then you got another job, and another job, and you got another job. And then the owner of this ice cream shop says, I trust you with everything I have. And so here's what all this meta story tells me. You're real, real tough, and you're not scared of taking risks, and you're good at running a small business because the owner trusts you, and you're great with strangers. Like, you have so many skills. Like, you see what I'm saying? I'm looking at this very rich 23 year old.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Not rich financially, like let's be honest, but rich personally. And the person who doesn't see it, even your knuckleheaded Kentucky boyfriend sees it, you don't see it. And that's okay. But I want you to go sit down with somebody where you can be honest about what happened to you when you're a kid and you can let 9 year old you and 14 year.

[Lynn]

Old you stop fighting.

[John DeLoney]

And 23 year old you can finally exhale. And that's just wiping those glasses clean or getting a whole new set of glasses so you can see the world for as beautiful as it is, despite the ugliness that's happened to you. And then you can decide where do I want to go make my life? Do you get what I'm saying?

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right.

[John DeLoney]

And that my sister, 100% right. Listen, that my sister is peace. So here's the, here's the homework assignment. You have two. Number one, you're going to call a counselor in your local area before the day's over. You're going to call a counselor before the day's over and say, I'm ready to get well and I got some hard stuff I got to say out loud. The second thing is I want you to write a love letter to 28 year old you5 years from now and tell her about the work you're about to start doing. You're going to start, you're not going to stop carrying family secrets and you're going to stop carrying tragedy that happened to you and burying it. And you are going to write 28 year old you a love letter about who you are starting to become today so that in five years that woman in Colorado will walk outside in one of the most beautiful places on planet earth and laugh in the snow, laugh in the heat, laugh on your hike. I don't know what you're doing there, but you're loving your life. You'll write her love letter and then you're gonna tonight over dinner, you're gonna tell that knuckleheaded boy it's time to get to marry you because you're worth being married to. I'm super grateful for the call, Rachel. I can't wait to see who you become. And if you want to be a gangster, write that letter to you, send it into Kelly and I'll read it because I think that letter would help millions of people stuck right where you're stuck. We're all with you, Rachel. And I cannot wait to see what amazing move you make next. We'll be right back. All right, good folks, I want to tell you about Cozy Earth. The holidays are on us like a freight train. And these stores keep playing the Little Drummer Boy over and over. Can we just be a done with the Pahrumpa Pum pums? Listen, at this time of year, we need to create peaceful environments, especially a peaceful sleep environment. And I call mine my sleep sanctuary. And for me and my family, a big part of our sleep sanctuary includes bedding and bath linens and comfortable clothes from Cozy Earth. Listen, y'all know I love the sheets and I love the bath towels and all the good stuff there, but you don't know that Cozy Earth has amazing hoodies and crewneck T shirts. They're called Cityscape hoodies and crewneck and they come in men's and women's and kids sizes. I can't stop wearing them. And my wife loves Cozy Earth's long sleeve bamboo pajama set. They're so amazing. And just wait till you feel the Cozy Earth cuddle blanket. It's big, it's heavy, it's super soft. It just makes you go. All of these things make incredible gifts during the holidays. And don't forget, Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all of their bedding. So amid the holiday chaos and the Pahrumpa Pom poms, you can create your own peaceful sanctuaries, your own peaceful sleep sanctuaries with Cozy earth. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code Deloney for an exclusive discount for up to 40% off. That's cozyearth.com deloney and if you get a post purchase, survey, say that you heard about Cozy Earth on this podcast. All right, let's go out to Rockford, Illinois and talk to Stephen. What up, Stephen?

[E]

What's up, Dr. D? This just got real.

[John DeLoney]

What's up, man?

[E]

Man, I've got a good one for you. After, like nine years of some pretty intense therapy work, I'm finally ready to deal with something that's been on my plate for a while to have you along the way. All right, my question that I wrote in with was, should I let my father back into my life after he left? About 10 years. And the story, in as few sentences as I can muster, it is he has bipolar one. He's always been kind of someone that's been really like it. Talking to him is a little like trying to hold on to water with my bare hands. He's always slipping through my fingers. And the Week after my high school graduation, he told me he was moving. And I thought that was just another one of his plans, but he was serious. And he left with just a suitcase, just nothing. To another country where I had no contact with him. And the craziest thing, two years ago, I was driving to work and I saw him waiting at a bus stop in my neighborhood. Coincidence of coincidences. And he's been sending me lots of texts, lots of calls for the past two years, just trying to reconnect. And I don't know what I want to do. I have no idea what I want to do.

[John DeLoney]

What's your gut tell you, man?

[E]

My gut tells me that I do not have. I did not expect to get emotional. My gut tells me that there's a lot of chaos behind that door of letting them back in. I know that we're not going to dust off our catcher's mitts and play catch in the field, you know, but there's a lot of chaos there. But he's my dad, and I love him, even if he hasn't exactly deserved it. But I'm half him. And there's a lot just in adult life that I've had to navigate totally, totally without that guidance. And I don't know if he's capable of giving it to me that way. I don't know.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Can I tell you what I just heard?

[E]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I'm going to do something I don't normally do, but I'm getting choked up. Can I just be honest with you?

[E]

Please, please, please.

[John DeLoney]

If this goes sideways, I just need you to remember I'm just some moron YouTuber on a podcast. Okay?

[E]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John DeLoney]

What? You just walked me through, man. Dude, I'm getting all choked up. Hold on a second.

[E]

Both of us, man. We can both share that.

[John DeLoney]

I think you're ready to have your dad back in your life. And here's. Here's why. You're not expecting this thing to heal you. You've had to figure that out on your own for 10 years.

[E]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You're not expecting him to be somebody he's not. He's a man with a brain disorder. He's sick. He always has been. And I feel like today is. The show has got a theme, and it's me defending people that I think it's easy on the Internet to demonize. But as you told me his story, I wonder if he woke up every day going to war with himself in order to get you through high school, and he thought the greatest gift he could give you finally as you became an adult was to get out of your life and get out of your way. And I know that sounds nuts and it sounds like I'm letting him off the hook, but I wonder if through his BP1 and his struggles he said, I swear to myself, I'm not going to hold my boy back. And he left you as an act of compassion, however misguided and crazy that is. He thought the greatest gift he could give you was to disappear.

[E]

Yeah, and it's just one of those things where it's like I actually think that you're spot on, but it's just kind of like talking to, talking to 18 year old me because I didn't want that gift.

[John DeLoney]

No, you didn't. No you didn't, man. I had a chance to meet one of my songwriting heroes. His name is Frank Turner recently and he has a new record out. But on the record he has a song written to his 15 year old self and it's a song of basically I'm declaring a truce. I'm tired of fighting my 15 year old self. And I think you've been at war with your 18 year old self for a long time about how you're supposed to feel versus reality, how you wish things have been versus like how they are. And dude, you having coffee once a month or once a week with your dad doesn't mean you give him any money. It doesn't mean you become responsible for himself. It doesn't mean that he's not going to hurt you again because he will. He struggles, he's sick. But it also doesn't mean that your 18 year old self, your 22 year old self had to go through hell figuring stuff out that young men are supposed to be able to call and ask their dads about. All that's true.

[E]

Yeah, I think that's kind of actually part of some of the hang up and some of the stuff that I wonder about because I, I do have a lot of things that I would love to express some frustration. Some like, hey, this, this happened and it really had an effect on me.

[John DeLoney]

There will be no resolution there, brother.

[E]

Yeah, I don't think he has it in him to hear me.

[John DeLoney]

No, you'll, you'll bury him. But more than that, it won't be the, the fantasy, this catharsis you believe it won't. It's not real.

[E]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I've never met the person who exploded on that person who hurt them and actually had it feel better. I haven't met that person.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think it's just kind of complicated, but I think you're totally right.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, God. It's anything if not complicated. Like, that's bare minimum. Even Avril Lavigne asked, why did you have to go make things so complicated? Like, we're there, right? Like, complicated is the least. This is as complex as it gets. And you, brother, you nailed it. He's half you.

[E]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so there's a strange thing about making peace with our dads. And it's not. It's not an excuse. It's not excusing things that happen. It's not pretending they didn't happen. It's a daily. I'll even call it a spiritual practice of saying, I'm not carrying those things anymore.

[E]

Yeah, that's good. That's real good. I think it was kind of just this moment where all the lights in the dashboard came on when I saw him and he came back, bro, I can't even.

[John DeLoney]

I can't even. That's like a movie. I can't even wrap my head around that.

[E]

It was a lot easier to heal when I didn't think he was ever coming back.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[E]

There was no shot at a conversation ever again. And it was just like, okay, this is my life now. Awesome. Gonna move on to the next thing and the next thing. And I found a piece in all of that and a really hard fought for piece and all that. Then I built a life that I love being in. Which sounds crazy to say for all of YouTube to hear, but, like, I love it. I have a great group of friends and awesome church. And it's like I saw him and it was like I was a little kid again.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. And that's one of the weird things, is our bodies go back to the last time we were hurt. Like you. You see him at a bus stop. You are nine again.

[E]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And he's on a manic. Or he hasn't gotten out of bed in for four weeks. And you're getting yourself ready for school and you got a sibling. You're getting ready for school because that's what you had to do. And your body goes right back there. And part of the healing is catching your body when it tries to protect you and go, no, no, no, no. We weren't safe then, but we're safe now. And I literally put my hand in my chest. That's how I. That's how I manage it. I wish I had a different way, but I'll just do that. And now I can do it pretty quick. I just touch my chest. But it's a reminder to me I'm okay right now. I've built a good life. And now that I've built a good life. Now that you've got a good life and you just said the things that are important. You got family, I mean in the form of great friends. You're anchored in. You have a faith community which I think is highly undervalued in a healing journey. And you're anchored in. And now you're safe to say on my terms. Now, dad, how's it been? How are you? And I want you to pre have these conversations. I don't do money. I don't do this. We'll pick up the tab for breakfast. Maybe he's safe to let you know where he lives. Maybe I mean where. Where you live. Maybe not. Like you decide those boundaries, you decide those hard things. But yeah, it. I'll tell people don't reach out when they are expecting something to be resolved through the reach out. Some sort of imagined reconciliation, some sort of imagined taster's choice moment, some sort of running through the cornfield or hey dad, you want to have a catch moment? That won't come, but it sounds like you've made peace with that. And now you can shake hands with a man in front of a Home Depot and just say it's good to see you and I'm not carrying ill will towards you anymore. I truly hope you have a great life and I'm interested in being in relationship with you for what it will be. Which may be a cup of coffee, which may be a daily practice for me to remind myself how fortunate I am to thank you for however misguided your attempts to love me were. They were your best shot because you were struggling. But I think this is how you. How you change your family tree, brother. Because who knows what his childhood was like and who knows what his granddads went through, right? This is you turning to face the forest fire that is family trauma. And you're going to get burned, you're going to get scars and you have those things. But this is how you bring peace to great grandkids you may never meet. Proud of you, my brother. Proud of you. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non Anxious Life. I want you to read it. It's my gift. And create that world so you can anchor fully in. Let's go have that cup of coffee. We'll be right back. November can be bananas. And we have the normal November chaos with colder weather. And there's family drama at Thanksgiving and Fig figuring out holiday plans. And with the recent election. Well, no matter what you think about any of this mess, we all need an extra helping of peace. And one of the easiest ways to find and maintain peace is with the help of Hallow, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. With so many external things trying to divide us or capture our attention or just make us bananas, Hallow is there to help you and me keep grounded, to stay present, and to focus on our faith in God. I use Hallow every day and I absolutely love it. Hallow has thousands of prayers, songs and meditations to guide you along the path of gratitude, to help you keep peace and to help you answer hard questions and to help you grow closer to God. And I want you to watch for an upcoming Advent Pray 25 challenge that will make the countdown to Christmas truly special. Download the Hallow app and go to hallow.com deloney to get three free months. That's three free months of the Hallow app. Totally free at Hallow. H A L l o w com/deloney. All right, we're back. Kelly, something cool happened. What happened?

[Kelly]

Yes. So this email is from Rhoda. She says, hey, Dr. John, I bought your book. Own your past, change your future. And I've been listening to your podcast for a while and I really appreciate all the work you do. I just started teaching school recently and before. Sorry. Before I started school, I ordered the elementary questions for humans because I wanted to try them out on my students. The students I'm tutoring mentioned that they are nervous about getting to know me and I thought that this would be a perfect opportunity to see how well they work. Turns out they absolutely love doing them and they work amazing. They ask me now to do questions each day.

[John DeLoney]

That's awesome.

[Kelly]

Since then I've ordered the high school deck and they are super, super excited about it. Great conversation starters. Great way to talk to K kids. Thank you for all you do.

[John DeLoney]

Dude, that's awesome. Very cool. And all the questions for humans are out now. They are in the wild. Especially the intimacy one. I'm just saying. Kelly ordered six of those. Kind of weird, but whatever. Whatever. But yeah, hey, that's awesome. What was her name again?

[Kelly]

Roda.

[John DeLoney]

Roda. Forget the questions for human's part. Just thanks for connecting with your students and the kids you tutor. At like a heart level is when teachers connect with their students at the heart level that they are then free to learn. And I wish we had that, not the other way that we told students, when you learn, then you can have access to me in a relational way. It works the other way. So that's amazing. And I'm glad the Questions for Humans are helping out you and your students. Yeah, that's awesome. Kelly, will you link to all the Questions for Humans in the show notes? Will do. That's awesome. Hey, love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. And, Andrew, you made it through the whole show. That's amazing. See you guys soon.