My Husband Hasn’t Followed Through With Leaving

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: My Husband Hasn’t Followed Through With Leaving
Release Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony, Ramsey Network
Episode Theme: Navigating marital crisis, family stability, and emotional health during turbulent relationships.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on challenging marital situations—spouses in turmoil, betrayal, and the emotional fallout on families—through real calls with listeners. Dr. Delony, drawing on decades of experience with hurting people, helps callers confront crises in their marriages: from a husband who threatened to leave but hasn’t acted, to a family’s struggle with infidelity, and another household gripped by emotional abuse. The underlying message is about taking courageous steps towards clarity, autonomy, and safety for oneself and one’s children.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. When a Spouse Threatens to Leave but Stays (Caller: Lisa)

• Lisa’s Situation (01:26-03:53):

  • Lisa’s husband announced his intent to separate 8 months ago, with little follow-through.
  • Lisa fears the uncertainty is teaching “wishy-washy values” to their two young kids.
  • Stuck between wanting stability for her family and not wanting to force a separation.

• Dr. Delony’s Direct Approach (03:07-05:25):

  • Calls for direct communication, stating that not addressing a relational “crack” doesn’t heal it.
  • "If somebody throws something into a pool...not talking about that brick doesn't make it any less real." (05:24 - John Delony)

• Digging Deeper: Why Did the Separation Come Up? (06:00-07:36):

  • Lisa describes intimacy issues during pregnancy and postpartum.
  • Additional stresses: health issues, husband disconnecting from friends, and possible alcohol problems.
  • Dr. Delony empathizes with Lisa, calling her husband’s complaints during this period “stupid and wrong and bullheaded and insensitive and just stupid.” (06:49)

• Analysis of Husband’s Behavior (08:05-11:21):

  • Suggests husband may be self-destructing due to substance use or emotional crises.
  • “He burned what y’all had to the ground.” (09:40)

• Actionable Framework for Conversation (11:47-13:59):

  • Framework:
    1. Request a focused, hard conversation.
    2. Set boundaries (no drinking, no distractions).
    3. “Here’s what I’m seeing.”
    4. “Here’s the story I’m making up about that.”
    5. “Here’s how I feel.”
    6. “Here’s what I’m going to do next.”
  • This method reclaims Lisa’s autonomy and invites honest dialogue.

• Facing Reality (14:15-17:20):

  • Lisa acknowledges the need for a “bulldoze and rebuild” for the marriage to heal, especially with ongoing alcohol issues.
  • Dr. Delony points out: “Clarity is kindness to you. It's kindness to your kids and it's kindness to him.” (15:15)

• Notable Moment:

  • “You're a grown adult. You can stay and just keep putting up with this for as long as you want. I just need you to hear me say, you're worth more than that. And so are your kids, and so is he, and so is your marriage.” (16:42 - John Delony)

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2. Forgiveness, Boundaries, and Betrayal (Caller: Kim)

• Kim’s Story (23:15-25:55):

  • Kim’s husband had an affair—discovered by their 11-year-old daughter who found incriminating texts.
  • Kim is concerned about modeling forgiveness and boundaries for her daughters during repair.

• The Need for Truth:

  • Kim admits she doesn’t feel like she knows the full story or can trust her husband (25:28).
  • Dr. Delony stresses, “You can't rebuild a building on top of an old building site until that building has completely been removed.” (25:56)
  • Recent betrayal: her husband resumed contact with the affair partner, breaching “no contact” boundaries.

• Establishing Boundaries and Consequences (26:30-27:25):

  • The absence of “or what” after a boundary (no contact) leads to ongoing pain.
  • Dr. Delony: “He's spit in your face.” (26:51)

• On Parenting During Crisis (27:07-31:07):

  • Encourages Kim not to “outsource” difficult decisions to her children.
  • “This isn’t the moment for that” regarding teaching her daughters about forgiveness; instead, focus on taking charge and modeling sturdiness.
  • “I think your kids are experiencing—nobody's in charge in this house right now.” (30:19)

• Ultimatums and Non-Negotiables:

  • Dr. Delony bluntly advises: husband must choose between his job (where affair partner works) or the marriage.
  • “Because you're never going to be able to sleep at night knowing he's going right back to that same place with that woman.” (32:06)
  • “You can't make him do anything. The only person you can control is you.” (34:35)

• Letting Go of the Past (35:54-36:05):

  • “What you had is over. You can build something amazing and new and powerful...but what you had doesn’t exist anymore because your husband blew it up.”

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3. Emotional Abuse and Children’s Safety (Caller: Stephanie)

• Stephanie’s Experience (38:31-43:41):

  • Husband has “anger issues”: yells until kids cry, throws and breaks objects.
  • Dr. Delony immediately reframes this as “not anger issues,” but emotional abuse and dangerous behavior.

• Gaslighting and Denial (40:18-41:47):

  • Husband claims Stephanie is only “projecting” her feelings onto the kids.
  • Dr. Delony is blunt: “That is gaslighting 101.”

• On Abuse and Responsibility (41:49-43:37):

  • Abuse doesn’t require intention; it’s about control through fear and harm.
  • “No man scream so loud that he makes children cry...No man is so out of control...that he has to smash things.”
  • Dr. Delony checks for escalation and physical violence; Stephanie is concerned about worsening trend.

• Support and Safety Plan (44:20-48:06):

  • Addresses isolation (moved far from her own family, limited support).
  • Dr. Delony arranges access to therapy and urges finding local, non-family support, emphasizing: “No wife, no child should be terrified of their father, of their husband. And you’re worth more.”

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Notable Quotes

• On Facing Marital Blindsides:
  "Being relationally blindsided…is one of the most off-kiltering things a person can experience." (02:36, John Delony)

• On Clarity:
  “Clarity is kindness to you. It's kindness to your kids and it's kindness to him.” (15:15, John Delony)

• On Abuse:
  “That is a completely disregulated adult male. It's a dangerous person to be around.” (39:18, John Delony)

• On Marital Boundaries:
  “What you had is over. You can build…something amazing and new…but what you had doesn’t exist anymore because your husband blew it up.” (36:05, John Delony)

• On Self-Worth:
  “You're a grown adult…You're worth more than that. And so are your kids, and so is he, and so is your marriage.” (16:42, John Delony)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Caller #1 (Lisa):

  • Situation Introduction: 01:26
  • Relationship Crisis & Husband's Mixed Signals: 03:07–06:00
  • Alcohol/Personal Crisis Discussion: 08:05–11:21
  • Framework for Hard Conversations: 11:47–13:59
  • Facing a ‘Bulldoze and Rebuild’ Marriage: 14:15–17:20
  • Emphasis on Self-Worth: 16:42

• Caller #2 (Kim):

  • Affair Discovery by Daughter: 23:15–25:55
  • Lacking Trust/Full Truth: 25:28–26:24
  • Repeated Betrayal & Boundaries: 26:30–27:25
  • Parental Leadership During Chaos: 27:07–31:07
  • Job vs. Marriage Ultimatum: 32:01–32:17
  • Letting Go of Past Relationship: 35:54–36:05

• Caller #3 (Stephanie):

  • Emotional Abuse Description: 38:31–39:18
  • Husband’s Gaslighting: 40:18–41:47
  • Abuse Definition: 41:49–43:37
  • Support System Discussion: 44:20–48:06

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Episode Tone & Style

• Empathetic, Direct, and Supportive: Dr. DeLony delivers tough truths with compassion but doesn’t sugarcoat difficult realities.
• Encouraging Autonomy and Safety: Repeatedly emphasizes that callers' safety, well-being, and self-worth are paramount.
• Clear Role Modeling: Advocates for direct communication, clear boundaries, and taking responsibility for one’s own actions.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a sobering look at the complex realities many people face in their marriages and homes. Dr. John Delony guides callers with actionable strategies—setting boundaries, having courageous conversations, knowing when to take decisive action, and prioritizing personal and child safety above all. The core message: Even in the messiest situations, clarity, self-worth, and sturdy boundaries are acts of kindness for everyone involved.

Transcript

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Eight months ago, he shared that he wanted to separate. We have two young kids and I don't want to instill this, like, wishy washy value into them.

[John DeLoney]

If we were having a longer conversation and we were sitting down, like having nachos or something, I would take a lot longer to get to where I'm about to go. Okay. Hey, what's going on? This is John with the doctor, your John DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking real calls from people all over the planet about their mental and emotional health, their relationships, their marriages, their kids, whatever they got going on in their life. I got two PhDs. I've been sitting with hurting people for more than two decades. And that's what we do on the show. Just try to figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you go to john deloney.com, ask a s k, fill out the form. I don't take questions and answers on social media, but I would love for you to write in with what's going on in your life. And if we pick you for the show, we'll holler back girl at you. Kelly ain't no holler back girl. Allegedly. But she produces the show. She's awesome, and she'll call you and get you on. And I would love to sit and talk with you. Let's go out to Baltimore, Maryland and talk to Lisa. What's up, Lisa?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

[John DeLoney]

I'm doing all right. How about you?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

I'm. I'm great.

[John DeLoney]

No, you're not. You wouldn't be calling me if you're great. What's going on?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

So my husband has been sharing some, like, second mixed signals, I guess after about eight months ago, he shared that he wanted to separate, which kind of blindsided me. We had always said that, like, we weren't interested and we didn't, like, necessarily believe in separating and divorce and all of that. So after he said that, like I said, it's been eight months and nothing really has happened. The only time I notice that things are happening is like kind of in response to something that I've said, something that a therapist has said, and nothing like it's just like him making a move. So really my question is we have two young kids and I don't want to instill this, like, wishy washy value into them. So I'm just really not sure what the next move is.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, A, that breaks my heart for you, like being relationally blindsided. I Think is one of the most off kiltering things a person can experience when it's a true blindside. Right. Like, didn't see this. If we were having a longer conversation and we were sitting down, like having nachos or something, I would take a lot longer to get to where I'm about to go. Okay.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

So can I just go direct and tell you to buckle up? Is that cool?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. He's not on the phone, so I just want to talk directly with you. Okay. If your main concern for your kids is that sense, and I totally get what you're talking about, that wishy washy. Nobody firmly has either of their feet on the ground. My question for you is, why have you allowed this to go on for eight months without turning all the lights on in the house, turning off all the dancing, all the music, all the drama, and sitting down at the table and saying, you told me you were gonna leave. I need clarity on this. Well, tell me about the gap between what you're feeling and that step that. Like, that clarity. Action step.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah. So, I mean, there's a couple of pieces. I mean, for starters, I don't want him to. So I don't necessarily want to spear him in that direction. And then also on top of this, we've had some, like, family health issues arise that have taken my attention away from the home and trying to be a part time caretaker. So it's like one of those things where I'm just kind of like at my breaking point of not being able to just like, manage everybody's emotions.

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Okay. So your fear that putting this on the table and bringing it up will bring it to reality. It's a. It's a false fear.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. He made a threat. All right? Maybe as a threat, maybe it was an intention. I don't. He's not on the phone, so I don't know why he would have said that and then just kept going on like everything was the same. He might have. He might have been testing the waters with you. He might have just been having a really bad day. He may have been having an emotional affair with somebody and he was about to cross a line, and so he put that on the table real fat. Like, who knows why he did what he did? But if somebody throws something into a pool, let's say they throw like a brick into a pool. Not talking about that brick doesn't make it any less real.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

So your husband fractured the stability of your marriage by saying what he said. And evidently he did it in a Way that caught you so off guard too. Not addressing it doesn't make that crack any bigger. It just drains all the water out of the pool so we can actually deal with that brick that's sitting at the bottom.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

That's fair.

[John DeLoney]

And so I, I. I don't know another way through this than right through it.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Why did he say he wants to se.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Well, we had been having kind of a rough couple of months, yearish period. He wasn't. I don't think he was feeling valued.

[John DeLoney]

What was rough about

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Just let's.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

The biggest piece. Well, on both sides, one side was leading up to this. He was having. He had voiced his opinion about, like, that are about our intimacy and how he felt like his needs weren't being met. And this is like simultaneously, spontaneously, when I'm pregnant and having immediate. In that postpartum period.

[John DeLoney]

God.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

That's a whole other call.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

On behalf of good husbands everywhere, I apologize.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Thank you.

[John DeLoney]

It's. It's so stupid and wrong and bullheaded and insensitive and just stupid. But it is what it is.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

So you were pregnant, you had a child you're going through, and how old your other. Your oldest?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Three.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so you have two kids. Two and under at the time. And he starts pouting that he's not getting as much sex as he wants, and then he blindside you with. You know what? I'm just. Let's just call it. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's man.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah. And it's like. I mean, I mean, on paper, it's so clear to me, but I think the hard part that I'm trying to figure out too, is that, like, I'm watching other areas of his life kind of blow up. He's cutting off relationships with other people that had meant something to him. He's been having issues at work. So it's like I. And knowing him for as long as I have, it almost feels like he's having some sort of crisis that's being taken out on me.

[John DeLoney]

And at the same time, it's probably a very. Yeah, it's a context, not an excuse.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And I'll also, again, I'll put this back in the ball back in your court if you're watching somebody you love self destructing. I. I've had men show up at my house that my wife called who are close personal friends of mine that said, hey, you are not okay. Right. Because they love me and cared about me. And my wife had tried, and I couldn't hear it or I wouldn't hear it. One of the two. And so I would tell you, like, if you're watching somebody you've known forever that you love is the father of your children and they're imploding, at least saying, hey, I see this. How can I love you right now? What's happening here? You said you want to leave again. It feels like you don't want to add another thing on his plate. But I think what's more important is the table that that plate is sitting on is crumbling.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Right. And so sometimes you turning all the lights on in a moment of accountability, a moment of I see you and I know you is actually a lifeline. And I guess what I. This may sound harsh, but if you bringing this up accelerates him leaving you and abandoning your kids and all that, quite honestly, I'd rather that happen now than two or three years more of you burning yourself into ash trying to keep this thing together with someone who's trying to leave.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah, that's so true.

[John DeLoney]

And that sounds awful to say because I hope that's not the ending here. I hope what's happening is what you're saying is for whatever reason, he's unwinding and you're just the closest person there. I hate this for you and I hate this for your kids, obviously, but I hope that you're able to like, reach across, reach through that electric fence and say, hey, I see you and I love you. But he, he. I mean, he burned what y' all had to the ground. Is there any chance he is. I. Whenever somebody tells me this is happening, it's not always, but often it's tied to. They are caught up in something that has taken a hold of them.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Oh, yeah, that would not surprise me.

[John DeLoney]

Alcohol, sports betting, a. A flirty friend that turned into a one night stand that turned into, oh, no, I don't know what to do. Took out a big business loan and I use some of it for this and some for that, and I don't know how I'm going to pay it back. Like, like, usually our work is slowly dissolving. He didn't want to tell how bad it really is. Usually there's something big looming that a person feels like I've lost control of this and it just starts coming out all over the place.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Absolutely.

[John DeLoney]

What is it? You. You know when I said that, you, you immediately went, oh, yeah, what is it?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah, I would probably say alcohol.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

We've been having. We've had issues with that over the past, I don't know, five, five Six years of, you know, just finding the boundary with it.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

So.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And maybe that's part of the call out.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

So I can give you a framework for how to have this conversation. The problem with the framework is it doesn't mean it's going to go well. It just simply gives you structure for how to do this and makes it the most inviting for somebody to hear it. But it cannot guarantee that they're going to hear it.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, here's the path. And I'll say it real fast. It's too quick to write down, but this will be the guiding path for any conflict anybody has in any marriage, but especially in this kind of situation. Let him know I want to have a focused, direct, hard conversation with you. Can we do that? And whatever boundaries you need to set for that conversation, set them. No screens, no phones. I need you not to drink tonight. What? Whatever you can say safely. The second one is, here is what I'm seeing. Number three, here's the story I'm making up about what I'm seeing. Number four, here's how I feel about that. And number five, and this is the kicker, here's what I'm going to do next. And what that does for you is it regains your autonomy in a situation where you feel completely powerless. And it owns the fact that you're saying things like, I'm choosing to make up the story that when you told me you wanted to be separated, you don't love me anymore, and you're going to leave our family. I'm making up the story that your alcohol is costing you friends, it's going to cost you your job, it's costing you your marriage, that you're really struggling. And that way, when you phrase it as here's a story I'm making up here, it's less about an accusation, but it invites the other person to say, well, that story you're making up actually isn't true. Here's the reality. But they don't always take it, right. Part of me tell me if I'm crazy. Part of me thinks you're kind of softballing this with me. And what I mean by that is, part of me gets this sense, and you tell me if I'm wrong. Please, please, please. Things are actually pretty. Not good, pretty bad. And you don't want them to be as bad as they actually are because that's going to mean you've got to do some stuff that's going to be real hard.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

I mean, yeah, you're not totally wrong. I mean, it's I don't.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

They're.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

They aren't fantastic. It's not something I really want to deal with. I did not paint this picture for myself.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

But I also know that if this is to work, like, it's gonna be a total bulldoze and rebuilding kind of situation.

[John DeLoney]

That's right. And he can't do that if he's, if he's struggling with alcohol.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And he can't do that if he's going to threaten. I'm going to leave every time things get hard. And he can't do that. Y' all can't do that. If. For God's sakes. If he doesn't see his wife growing a human and giving birth to that human and then struggling to parent two little ones, plus deal with postpartum, plus deal with just the, like, the normal. It takes time for your body to heal and hormones are regulated. If he can't look at that situation and say, this is a time for me to double and triple down on how well I can love her instead of, I'm not getting off enough. I mean, you're talking. Yeah, you're. You're talking a total tear down and rebuild from the floor up.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Clarity is kindness to you. It's kindness to your kids and his kindness to him.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Have you sat down and told anybody all of the stuff? Yeah,

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

I have like one or two people that know all of the details.

[John DeLoney]

What do they tell you?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

They, they, I mean, they don't know what to say. It's such a crazy situation that. And they, they know him and they're just, you know, they're shocked and don't really, like, almost blindsided as well. When I've told them what's happened,

[John DeLoney]

would he call and talk to me?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Maybe.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, I'd love to talk to him. Not an accusatory way. I just want to know what's going on inside the heart and mind of that dude.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

I told him to listen to your show.

[John DeLoney]

I'm hearing across the country, wives are constantly being like, you know what John said, you need to. And I'm like, no, don't do that. Please don't do that. Yeah, he's got to get some. At least one. He's got to get some men in his life that will look him in the eye and say, I'll weather the storm, but you're not. Okay. And this isn't okay.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah. And that. He definitely is lacking in that.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

That he.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

A lot of his friends are female just because of his line of work. That's the people he's around all day. But, yeah, I agree.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. I'd recommend spending some time writing out what you're gonna say, and that will force you to write down, here's what must be true for us to move forward. And here's the other thing. You're a grown adult. You can stay and just keep putting up with this for as long as you want. I just need you to hear me say, you're worth more than that.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so are your kids, and so is he, and so is your marriage.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Absolutely.

[John DeLoney]

Thanks for being courageous and calling.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Thank you.

[John DeLoney]

I hate what comes next for you, but I'm don't hate what could happen on the other end of some hard, direct, loving, connected, focus conversations. But I'm taking it from your long silence that you know how these are going to go.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I hate that for you. Call back anytime.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Something has to be better.

[John DeLoney]

Well, I mean, yeah, but people are always like, it can't get any worse. And by the nature of my job, I'm like, yeah, it could. And so, yeah. And again, I know this is complex. There's economic considerations. There's so. I mean, there's so much wrapped up in this, And he's made it really, really difficult. But the old trope is true. You can only control you. And so the question I have for you is, what are you going to do next? And choosing to. Again, assuming your relationship's not abusive, that you're safe, choosing to stand in the gap and say, okay, you put this on the table. You said you're gonna. You want us to separate. You're losing your friends over here. You're drinking a lot more over here. You're pulling away. I've been dealing with health issues, and you're helping with that. I'm just gonna turn the lights on, turn the music off. And we gotta have a hard conversation about what happens next. And here's some of the things I've made up. And here's what I'm gonna do next. I love you too much to let this continue. If he'll call me, I'd love to talk to him. And you feel free to call me back anytime. I'll walk with you. This is a mess. Thanks for the call. When we come back, a woman asks how to teach her daughter's forgiveness after they witnessed their father's affair. Oh, man. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Some of my most amazing mentors and some of my closest friends and my wife. They're all amazing women. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between caring for people and all the other responsibilities and the expectations the whole world is always dumping on them. Women are under incredible pressure every day. They're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well being to care for everybody else. Therapy offers a space for women to learn how to create some sort of balance, navigate healthy boundaries and support overall well being. And if this sounds like something that would help you, I want to recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right over the platform. With over 30,000 therapists, they have the right person just for you. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Your emotional well being matters. Find support in therapy today. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp hlp.com DeLoney all right, point blank. Most of the stuff on supplement shelves in your local store is trash. It's shiny labels with zero substance. And when it comes to supplements, I'm not playing that game. And neither is Thorne. I've been taking Thorn supplements for years, long before I had a podcast or a YouTube show. Because when it comes to my mind and my body, I don't mess around. I love Thorn. I trust him. I use them for sleep, performance and for keeping my brain on track. Whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, or a dad who's just trying to show up for his family after a long day at the office, if you're looking for supplemental nutrition, you deserve the best. When it comes to supplements, I want proof, not hype. Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing. Not Thorne. They make every product with science, not spin. At their world class facility In South Carolina, 35% of Thorne's employees work in quality control and they reject up to 15% of raw materials because good enough is not good enough for Thorne. It's got to be excellent. It's why pro athletes, Olympic teams and over 60,000 doctors trust Thorne. And that's why I trust him too. Stop guessing what's going into your body. Take what it actually needs and nothing it doesn't. Go to thorne.com the letter u deloney to get 25% off your order when you create an account that's T H o r n e.com the letter u sl deloney. You're worth it. Go check Them out. All right, we're back. Hey, before we move forward, take 30 seconds and hit the subscribe button. If you're watching this on YouTube, hit the subscribe button. If you're listening on podcast, just hit the subscribe button. It makes a huge difference for how the show ends up in the algorithms, and that means more people can get it. More people can listen in on these conversations and begin to change their homes, their hearts, their marriages, their relationship with their kids. And that's how we're going to end up changing. This whole mess we're all in culturally is people deciding, I'm going to change myself in my home. And so when you hit subscribe, it has a ripple effect that is well beyond you. Doing that didn't cost any money. Just takes 30 seconds. Please do that for your neighbors. All right, let's go out to Toronto, Ontario, and talk to Kim. What's up, Kim?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Hi. Hi, John.

[John DeLoney]

How are you?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Thanks for taking my call.

[John DeLoney]

Of course.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

I'm good. How are you?

[John DeLoney]

We're. We're doing all right. What's going on?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

So my question is, my husband and I are trying to repair our marriage after he had an affair, which my older daughter was unfortunately a witness to. So what I'm wondering is, with everything we've been through, how do I make sure that my girls understand that repair and forgiveness are not owed to anyone and to make sure that they're on the right track? Sorry.

[John DeLoney]

No, you're okay. Take a breath.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

You're good for making decisions in their own relationships.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, man. So what. What did. What happened with your husband and what did your daughter see?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

So she.

[John DeLoney]

How old was.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

She broke her phone. She was 11. Okay. Her phone broke.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

She was going out with a friend

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

and she needed a means of communication. So she took my husband's phone and tried to log into her Snapchat and saw that there was a big streak with him and somebody that he works with who's a female. So she was curious and she went in and read all the messages.

[John DeLoney]

What'd she read?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Lots of I love yous and I miss yous. I didn't really dig too deep because I didn't know if I should. So I don't really know. Probably pictures. Yeah. Just inappropriate and confusing.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

For her.

[John DeLoney]

So I'll say this broadly and then we'll dig into it a little bit more. But a lot of a child's reaction, especially a child in a safe yada. You know what I'm about to like that. Are kids that are safe and loved right? A lot of their internal reactions or responses to the reactions of the adults in the room.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And the fact that I can. The reason I asked you what those text messages said. I was. I was fishing for something, and I think I got it. You still don't feel confident in what actually happened.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Correct.

[John DeLoney]

And you don't feel confident that your husband is telling you the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Correct.

[John DeLoney]

And so that means you can't fully repair or quote, unquote, work on your marriage.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

That's correct.

[John DeLoney]

You can't rebuild a building on top of a. Top of an old building site until that building has completely been removed.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Well, I thought we were getting to a point where I felt confident that he had told me everything and that we were working together and trying to make things better. And we felt. We both kind of felt like things were good. And then I caught him messaging the affair partner last week.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so what is your boundary that you had set up previously to finding that out?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No contact.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Or what?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No contact or. I don't know. I guess I didn't. I guess there was no or.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And that's the hardest, most terrifying responsibility you own right now is what am I going to do next?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Because he's spit in your face.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yep. Yep.

[John DeLoney]

And so what I don't want you to do. And it's gonna sound like I'm making an accusation against you, and I kind of am, but I'm trying to do it gently. Okay.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

I don't want you to hold. I don't want you to outsource the confusion, the heartbreak, the. Oh, my gosh, now I've been forced to make a call on what I'm going to do next, and then I'm going to be the bad guy that blew up my marriage. Even though, like, I don't want you to outsource that to your daughters.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And worrying about how they're going to grow up and have functioning, healthy relationships in the future right now is like worrying about where you're going to put the bathroom in your. In your new beach house, but you're in the middle of the ocean because the boat you were in just sank. Like, this isn't the moment for that.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

I guess so. I just see them making poor decisions when it comes to friendships and stuff. And it concerns me because I wonder, are they looking at what I'm doing and thinking that I'm foolish? Like, are they making those. No calls about me?

[John DeLoney]

Well, all. All I mean, is your daughter's 12 and 13 or something. Like that.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Now she's turning 13.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

One thing that is true about all 13 year olds is they judge their parents. That's just part of being 13. So I. That I don't care about.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

I have a 15 year old that judges me all the time.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I have a 10 year old and she judges everything. Right. But it's like, yeah, I. I have to sift through their judgments and say, okay, this one's actually true. This is actually a real thing.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

The other day when my daughter said, hey, let's go play basketball, and I said, all right, I'll be right there. She got the ball and she got 2cm from me. And I said, please back up, I'm coming. And she said this, and it broke my heart. Dad, you always say that and then you never come.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And I put down, I closed my laptop and I said, you're exactly right. Okay. So that judgment was real. When my 10 year old says something like, y' all never. Okay, that's just dumb. She's. She's 10, right?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so I'm not going to outsource what my next right move is based on what my. Whether my teenager is judging me. Of course they're judging you. They're trying to make sense of the world. I'm way more concerned with. If you want to teach them what forgiveness and reconciliation looks like, that they can feel a united front and they can't because their dad is a liar.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And their mom is unregulated.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

And so I'm way more concerned about teaching them sturdiness and stability, especially in moments of chaos. So, like, we were just in Nashville. The power was up for a week. That is not nearly the importance like my kids are. Have experienced that. Right. I have very firm memories of when a hurricane hit my family home in Houston when I was a kid and we didn't have power for like 10 days or something. I wrote, that's in me. I remember it. But I also, I never got a sense from my parents that we were in any sort of danger because they always seemed like they had a plan.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

And so there was sturdiness and stability inside of chaos. Right. Same with this past weekend. Like, man, the power is out. It's 30 degrees inside the house, and here's what we're going to do next. And my kids are like, this stinks, but awesome. Somebody's in charge.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I think your kids are experiencing. Nobody's in charge in this house right now.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

Like the house has fallen over and we don't know who to follow.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so for you, the homework, the hard work is, what am I going to do now that I've got that my husband spit in my face.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

During a rebuild.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah. Yeah. It feels like a reset.

[John DeLoney]

It's not a reset. It's a. It's. He demoed. He re. Blew up, like.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

It's like. Was it Star Wars 2 or 3? I don't know. Ben would know. When they're rebuilding the Death Star and they blow it up again. That's what just happened.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so let me ask you this, a hard question. What are you going to do next?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

I. We. Well, we. We've already. We've already had some conversations about what's going to happen next, but I've said I want him to. I want some external accountability. So this person that he had the affair with, they work together, so they see each other every day. So that's, I think, part of the problem. And he doesn't want to quit his job. So I want some external accountability. I want him to tell somebody at work. Hold on.

[John DeLoney]

That's not going to cut it for you. I can tell you right now. It's not going to cut it for you.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No.

[John DeLoney]

He either gets to choose his job or gets to choose you.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yes. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Because you're never going to be able to sleep at night knowing he's going right back to that same place with that woman. He spends more time with her than with you. That's where he works.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And he's proven time again. He's not trustworthy.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

And you don't know. You still haven't dug in and asked. You still don't know what actually happened between them.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right? Well, I've asked. I mean, I just don't know if I've gotten the truth. I guess I should say, I know I haven't gotten the truth.

[John DeLoney]

There you go. And I'm not a firm. I'm not a believer in. I need to see everything with my own eyes.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

But in my mind, there's an escalation. There's a difference between, hey, we're super close, best friends, and we're getting kind of flirty. There's another line that is, I love you and I miss you. There's a whole other line of, we're sexting each other now. Send me a topless photo. There's a whole other line that, hey, let's go meet over at the hotel or, my wife's out of town once you come over.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right, Right. Yep.

[John DeLoney]

And Then there's a whole other line that is, I'll burn everything to the ground for you. I hurt our marriage. I hurt you. This will never happen again.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah, but how do I know it won't ever happen again?

[John DeLoney]

You won't. That's the hard part about forgiveness and repair, especially after an affair, is at some point, you give him a path. Here's what trust rebuilding trust must include. And he gets to be a grown man and decide if he's going to walk that path or not.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And then you have to be a grownup and say, if you're walking that path, I'm not going to throw this back on you. I'm going to work to heal. And that's going to be you risking getting hurt again and putting both feet back in the boat at some point. But not today.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

But again, after finding out he was texting her again secretly and lying to you about that and whatever you said. All right, now here's a whole bunch of other stuff you have to do.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Hear me say this. And this is so hard to hear. You can't make him do anything. The only person you can control is you.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so what you put forth is, here's the path I want you to walk.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And here's what I'm going to do next.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And I've met with couples who look at each other and one of them says, I'm never going to leave you. I'm asking you to not hurt me again. And I've heard couples say, if you text that person again, you are telling me through your actions you don't want to be married to me anymore. And you're going to move out or I'm going to move out.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah. Yes.

[John DeLoney]

Sturdiness in the storm.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

How's that hitting you?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Like something I already knew.

[John DeLoney]

I knew. I know. I told somebody the other day, I think, like, 95 people call my show. They already know. They just need to hear it.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

They just want your you to confirm.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You're not crazy.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah. Yeah. I just want my family. I just want what I had. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And there's something so heartbreaking about me telling you, not something every. It's so heartbreaking to tell you what you had is over.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You can build, rebuild something amazing and new and powerful and even stronger than what was. But what you had doesn't exist anymore because your husband blew it up.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I hate this for you.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Thank you.

[John DeLoney]

Call me back anytime. Okay.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Thank you.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, man. Kelly.

[Kelly (Producer)]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

You put together a doozy today.

[Kelly (Producer)]

Do what we can to make you work for it.

[John DeLoney]

Sometimes when we come back, a woman asks if her husband's behavior is emotional abuse. Wow. Hey, I want to talk with you for a second about love and not the Titanic I'll never let go kind of nonsense love. I'm talking about a love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you. I'm talking about getting term life insurance from Xander Insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, spouses, kids, anyone, you need term life insurance. My wife and I trust Xander for term life insurance. I've used them for years, long before I started the show, because I trust them when it comes to term life. Here's the deal. You should get coverage of 10 to 12 times your income because that gives your family real protection so that if the unthinkable happens, your family can spend their time grieving, not worrying about where their next meal is going to come from. Zander makes buying term life insurance simple with clear guidance and honest support. They help you figure out the right amount of coverage for you and your family. And then they shop all the top companies to find the best price. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying I love you, especially when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to xander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 and get term life insurance the right way. That's Xander. Z A N--E-R.com all right, let's go to Chicago and talk to Stephanie. Hey, Stephanie. What's up?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Hi. How are you doing?

[John DeLoney]

All right. How about you?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Doing okay.

[John DeLoney]

Very cool. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

Yeah,

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

so I've been wondering. So my husband has some anger issues, and sometimes during those anger moments, he. He can yell so much that the kids start crying.

[John DeLoney]

That's not an anger issue. That's emotional abuse.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

And then sometimes he throws things and those things break.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. That is a completely disregulated adult male. It's a dangerous person to be around. Are you safe?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

Are you confident?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah. Yes. 90%.

[John DeLoney]

That's not good enough for me. Do you walk on eggshells inside your own home? Some days you shush and silence your kids to keep them safe.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Oh, yeah.

[John DeLoney]

That's a dangerous, scary home.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah, we've. I've had conversations with my husband. He's not very receptive to the idea that. That there is any kind of issue.

[Caller 1 (Lisa)]

He.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

He tells me that I am projecting my feelings onto the kids of when I feel unsafe, that I am assuming that the kids feel unsafe. As well. But since the kids haven't actually verbalized that, he doesn't believe that they feel unsafe.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's. I'm trying to stay cool right now. Right. That is gaslighting 101. How old are your kids?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

My oldest is 7. My middle is 5 and our youngest is a year and a half, so.

[John DeLoney]

Do you really. I know you don't. Does any functioning adult really believe that a 7 year old can verbalize to an out of control screaming so loud? Children's emotional capacity explodes, smashing objects, breaking things. That a seven year old can wade into that and verbalize, hey, out of control, wild giant adult. You are scared. That's madness. That's insanity. It's madness.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Abuse is pervasive. Abuse does not require intent. You can be abusive and quote, unquote, not mean to. Abuse is about control. It's about using fear and harm as a way to get whatever you want, even at the expense of those you care the most about. And there's a difference between being abusive and just being mean or being abusive and being dumb. It's the pervasiveness and it's the remorse. It's not screaming until my children are crying and smashing plates through the Sheetrock. And then looking at you saying, look what you did to the kids. You passed along your emotional reactions. How unfair.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. Can I just tell you this directly here? If you hear nothing else, hear me say this. Stephanie, you're not crazy.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. No man scream so loud that he makes children cry, whether they're his children or anybody else's children. No man is so out of control physically that he has to smash things, Much less a husband and a father. Has he put his hands on you before?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No. No. Not me or the kids.

[John DeLoney]

Has he sent signals to you that this is what could happen if you don't fill in the blank?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No. I just. Things have continued to escalate and I feel like it's just a matter of time.

[John DeLoney]

It is.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Before something accidentally happens.

[John DeLoney]

It is. I always look at trend lines on these things, and this is trending in a really bad direction. And you know that. So here's the scary reality that you live in. You got three young kids.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

My guess is you're economically pretty fragile. Yep. And you can't make him do anything. You can only control what you do next. That's a horrifyingly vulnerable place to be. Do you have friends or family you can stay with?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No. I moved two and a half hours to live up here with them when we got married.

[John DeLoney]

That wasn't my question, though. Not that it won't be inconvenient, not that it will completely change every bit of your life, but do you have somebody in your life that would take in a mom and three young kids for a minute?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. Do you have anybody on the ground there with you in your new. In your new community that you can be open and honest with about what's happening?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yes. Okay. One of his sisters knows a lot.

[John DeLoney]

And what is her wisdom to you?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

She's not really giving me much advice.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. I need you to find somebody that's not related to him.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna hook you up with three months of better help for free so you can talk to a licensed counselor within the next 24, 48 hours. Okay?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

You can do that via Zoom, or you can do that on your cell phone.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And they can point you to some resources in your local community. But if you have somebody you work with, if you have a friend, if you've got a minister that you trust, somebody that you can exhale and say, here's what's happening in my home right now, and I've got nowhere to turn.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

And just. Just for clarity for everybody listening, since he's not hurt you, since he's not threatened you in a direct way, I think he's very indirectly threatening. But he hasn't threatened you directly. A direct conversation would be important. But you've said he's not even receptive to that. He can't hear any. It sounds like you've tried to talk to him about anger and his rage and his childish outburst and all that, and he can't hear it.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yes, okay. That's correct.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. In fact, blames you for his outburst.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[John DeLoney]

I'm so, so sorry.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Thank you.

[John DeLoney]

No wife, no child should be terrified of their father, of their husband.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No.

[John DeLoney]

And you're worth more.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And nothing, I'm telling you, is a surprise, is it?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

No, not at all.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, Well, I'll walk with you. Best I can. Call back anytime. Okay?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay, thank you.

[John DeLoney]

All right, hang on the line here. We'll get you hooked up with some direct resources right away. Okay?

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. I'm excited to tell you about a brand new sponsor for this show, Shady Rays. We've all had that moment when you realize you left your favorite sunglasses on the roof of your car or in the deer stand in the mountains at a gas station 700 miles back. Listen, I lose sunglasses all the time. But when I got Shady Rays, I made sure I never lose them. They changed everything. These sunglasses are made for real life. They look great, they're durable, they reduce glare and protect against UV rays. And they're not insanely stupid expensive. And here's the best part. Shady Rays is backed by a lost and broken protection. That means if you lose or break them, even the first day, Shady Rays will send you a brand new pair. So now I could wear my sunglasses anywhere. Driving, fishing, hunting, working in the yard, even a punk rock show if it was going to be outside without fear of losing them or breaking them. And now this show has teamed up with Shady Race to bring you this exclusive offer. Head to shadyrays.com and use code Deloney for 40 off two or more polarized sunglasses, try the shades rated five stars by over 300, 000 people. For yourself, that's Shady. S H A D Y Shady Rays R a y S dot com. All right, we're back. All right, that was three calls, Kelly, in a row about not great husbands.

[Kelly (Producer)]

Yeah. Was kind of bashing on husband day.

[John DeLoney]

I know you hate men, but that was. This was a lot, actually.

[Kelly (Producer)]

I pick the calls, but I'm not the one that schedules them in, like, what order they're going to go, what show they're going to go on. That would be Alex, so.

[John DeLoney]

Well played, Alex.

[Kelly (Producer)]

That's all I'm saying.

[John DeLoney]

Well, speaking of bad husbands. Bad husbands, you want to ask me

[Kelly (Producer)]

you'd like to be a better husband? Not you personally.

[John DeLoney]

I do, actually.

[Kelly (Producer)]

I do, too. So I wanted to ask you a little bit more about the Together app.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. What about it?

[Kelly (Producer)]

Yes.

[John DeLoney]

So besides that, it's awesome.

[Kelly (Producer)]

Yes. But there. So you have these we talked about last week, like, these microhabits.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Kelly (Producer)]

So you get these little habits, like bring your spouse their favorite cup of coffee or send your spouse a flirty text during the day. These little things that seem really simple and pardon me, but maybe even a bit cheesy when you take them on the surface of what they are, you're like, what in the world does this have to do with the fact that I send my text my husband a text? It's like, I love you.

[John DeLoney]

And he's like, yes.

[Kelly (Producer)]

Yeah, love you, too. Okay, great. My husband would be like, what'd you do? Or how much did it cost? Or whatever. But so what is it about these seemingly simple little habits? How in the world do they do anything to make your marriage better?

[John DeLoney]

All right, so it's a great question. And in Fact, I'll even call this out. I had a couple of folks who were executive type folks who got early versions of the app and we were just working it out and when they saw a list of some of the things, especially in the first week or two, that, that I asked you to do with this app. And this. What, here's what this app does is it sends you a message every day based on your profile, what you're asking for, areas you want to work on in your own marriage, in, in, in yourself. It gives you a daily challenge to go do this. And they rolled their eyes. They were like, this is dumb. This isn't. This is cheesy. And every one of them came back after using this app for two weeks and they were like, dang, dude, that actually made a huge difference. And I couldn't even believe it. Some of these things are neuroscience. Some of these things are relational science. Some of these things are common sense. But if I ask you to walk in the front door of your house and have put your phone away before you walk in and walk directly to your spouse and drop your bag and just give them a hug for 30 seconds, time it. Who cares? Time the hug for 30 seconds. Or like Kelly said, wake up three minutes earlier and just pour a second cup of coffee and put just the right amount of creamer and sweetener in it. By the way, if you don't know how your spouse takes their coffee, then that's about seeing and knowing them. It's about getting to know them a little bit better and bringing it to them. It literally takes you 30 seconds to do that or an extra three minutes, let me say three minutes to do that. The. It's kind of that old saying, if you turn the, the wheel of your car one degree, eventually you make an entire turn. It's just that it is slowly practicing these habits. I like the way James Clear says it. Every microhabit is a vote towards the identity of the person you want to become. So if you're saying, I want to be a good husband, I am a good husband. It's an identity you want to wear. I am a connected wife. Then every little thing I do in that direction is a vote for that identity. And I think the problem is most of us try to solve our marriages. They try to change our marriages in big hum, like massive strokes, firework shows, super bowl parties, big weekends away. Let's get right. And those are cool and great and wonderful, but the real, like wheels on the pavement, change happens minute by minute, day by day, with a bunch of tiny changes and a bunch of small actions that lead to huge changes over time. And so, yeah, if you get this app, by the way, it's six bucks for you. If you're just doing it one player mode, you can add your spouse, no extra charge. Just six bucks for both of you. It's a cup of coffee. I just went to Starbucks this morning. It's about 650 is what I paid. It's less than a cup of coffee for the whole month for you and your spouse to plug in and get a daily challenge that you're going to do for each other and you're going to change yourself in the process and you transform your marriage. So that's what. That's the point of them. Kelly. The. And. And again, they're. They're. We. They're very thought through. They can look haphazard, they can look silly, they can look. This is so small and so dumb. These things add up over time and they're done in the right order. Right? And. And by the way, you keep working the app, it unlocks new things. And so you want to get to the, like, the crazy sex challenges. You want to get, like, those are all there. But you gotta cover the basics first and not just try to go to the fireworks show first. Let's learn how to block and tackle before we start worrying about the halftime show at the Super Bowl. Right? So go get the Together app. It's in the App Store. Android folks, we're coming for you. Relax. Jeez. But go download it today. Six bucks a month for you and your spouse. Change everything from the floor up. Love you guys.

[Caller 2 (Kim)]

Bye.