My Husband Is Taking Creepy Photos of Me

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: My Husband Is Taking Creepy Photos of Me
Date: October 3, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony, with co-host Kelly
Network: Ramsey Network

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Overview

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show addresses deeply sensitive and complex listener issues related to personal violation in a marriage, self-worth and dating insecurities, family conflict, and parenting boundaries. Dr. Delony offers candid, compassionate, and direct guidance, maintaining his signature blend of empathy and straight talk. The episode moves through three distinct caller stories, unpacking nuanced emotional and ethical territory, while reinforcing the importance of safety, self-respect, and healthy relationship dynamics.

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1. Caller #1: Marital Violation & Safety Concerns

“My Husband Is Taking Creepy Photos of Me”
Timestamps: 00:05–14:45

Key Discussion Points

• Caller’s Story (00:05–03:46):

  • Married nine years, struggled with ups and downs, including issues with husband’s pornography use and financial irresponsibility.
  • Discovers a folder on husband's laptop labeled “my love” containing hundreds of surreptitious, intimate photos of herself—nude or semi-nude, asleep, or in daily routines—taken over several years without her knowledge.

• Caller’s Feelings:

  • Expresses deep violation, shock, disgust, fear, and confusion over what steps to take next.
  • Seeks validation and advice on how to confront the situation and protect herself, as well as trust issues stemming from patterns of secrecy and dishonesty.

• Dr. Delony’s Immediate Response (03:46–05:14):

  • Strongly validates the caller’s sense of violation and fear.
  • Emphasizes that this is not a typical marital issue—he uses the words “grotesque,” “pervasive,” “dangerous,” and “criminal.”
  • Encourages immediate action: “You need to get out of your house as soon as you can, or he needs to get out.”
    • Notable Quote:

      “Every one of your concerns and deep fears is 100% valid. The level of violation… is so grotesque.” (03:55)

  • Warns about the potential of the photos being shared, sold, or otherwise misused.

• Advice & Safety Steps (05:14–12:48):

  • Make a secure copy of the folder as evidence.
  • If safe, confront him directly, make clear boundaries, and insist he leaves immediately, or leave herself if that's not possible.
  • Consult a therapist, attorney, and consider a forensic investigation of the computer.
  • Place a freeze on her credit report due to patterns of financial secrecy.
  • Recognizes escalating trends in her husband’s behavior (“this is escalating… this almost never happens in a vacuum like this”).
    • Notable Quote:

      “If he took these pictures of a neighbor through the window, it's a crime. Right? It should be a crime inside your house, too.” (06:31)

• Further Red Flags:

  • Caller mentions repeated financial deceit, withholding information, and lies involving their daughter.
  • Dr. Delony: “There’s no possible way I’m letting this man take my daughter anywhere.” (10:26)

• Emotional Closure & Encouragement (12:48–14:45):

  • Encourages caller to lean on her support system and underscores the trauma this kind of violation brings.
  • Highlights the importance of community, therapy, and taking control of her choices.
  • “When the shock wears off, there’s going to be a lot of exhaling and a lot of grieving and trauma coming. This is a kind of a violation that will stick with you for a while.”

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2. Caller #2: Insecurity & Dating Challenges

“How Can I Find Love When I Feel Rejected Because I'm Short?”
Timestamps: 15:43–34:45

Key Discussion Points

• Caller’s Story (Javier, 28, 5’3”) (15:43–17:36):

  • Lifelong awareness of being short but only recently feeling its negative impact, especially in dating.
  • Feels forced to work harder to compensate in other areas (career, fitness).
  • Feels women overwhelmingly prefer taller men and finds app-based dating demoralizing.

• Dr. Delony’s Response: Radical Acceptance & Self-Respect (17:36–31:44):

  • Affirms the reality of societal bias:

    “I know the data. Women prefer…a taller guy… Dating apps have destroyed this for guys who are less than six feet tall.” (20:44)

  • Emphasizes the futility of comparing oneself on immutable traits:

    “Constantly comparing height is a fool’s errand, because that can’t change for you.” (19:37)

  • Challenges Javier to rethink his self-presentation—not to apologize for his height or enter relationships from a place of inadequacy:

    “If you walk into every relationship already apologizing for a core tenet of who you are, no one will ever get to know you. They're going to get to know an apologetic version of you. And that's not attractive.” (21:32)

• Advice for Confidence & Action:

  • Be proud of unique attributes: hard work, global travel, adventurous spirit, fitness.
  • Embrace rejection as normal; “Shoot your shot, brother. Because here’s the thing: you’re going home empty handed anyway with no dates. You might as well take some shots, right?” (32:06)
  • Reflects on the universal nature of insecurity—everyone harbors some, regardless of outward confidence.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “You're not crazy. There is a tremendous discrimination towards shorter men. There just is. And also, I don't know anybody who doesn't look in the mirror and wish they looked differently.” (32:26)
  • “Change those glasses, change how you walk into a room, and then shoot your shot, brother. Start asking people out in person.” (34:17)

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3. Caller #3: Navigating Family Estrangement

“My Adult Son Won't Speak to My Husband”
Timestamps: 35:51–45:29

Key Discussion Points

• Caller’s Story (Elizabeth, Denver) (35:51–37:14):

  • Son, 22, recently moved out and gone no-contact with his father (Elizabeth’s husband) after years of strained relatiionship.
  • Resentment stems from husband’s history of yelling both at home and at work (they share a family business property).
  • Elizabeth feels caught between, seeing both sides but not wanting to play mediator.

• Dr. Delony’s Boundary Advice (37:14–44:58):

  • Acknowledges both son’s valid hurt and the father’s past mistakes, but urges both parents to treat the son as an adult.
  • Draws a line on “triangulation”—refusing to take bitterness from either side or badmouth spouse in front of son.
  • Suggests Elizabeth maintain a relationship with her son on her own terms (lunches, breakfasts), and make clear that speaking ill of her husband isn’t acceptable.
    • Notable Quote:

      “You don't get to talk that way about my husband. If you want to badmouth your dad… you're not going to talk trash about my husband in front of me, especially not when he's trying this hard to change.” (40:34)

  • Encourages Elizabeth to set boundaries while acknowledging son’s hurt is real—but he’s also responsible for the consequences of his choices as an adult.

• Advice for Resolution & Forgiveness:

  • “Forgiveness is not for your dad. Forgiveness is for you. Every morning waking up in your shoes has to be exhausting because you wake up angry…” (44:44)
  • “Boundaries can result in loss of connection, but relationships built on bitterness aren't real.”

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4. Bonus Segment:

Am I the Problem? – Parenting, School Buses, and Anxiety (47:23–51:54)

• Listener asks if he’s wrong for wanting his daughter to take the school bus while his wife, who suffers from anxiety, resists.
• Dr. Delony: this is less about the child’s needs and more about the parents’ experiences, anxieties, and family values. Suggests both parents make the decision—not the third grader. Points to addressing broader anxiety if it's affecting other areas.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Marital Violation (03:55)
  Dr. John Delony:
  “Every one of your concerns and deep fears is 100% valid. The level of violation… is so grotesque.”

• On Comparison & Confidence (21:32)
  Dr. John Delony:
  “If you walk into every relationship already apologizing for a core tenet of who you are, no one will ever get to know you.”

• On Family Boundaries (40:34)
  Dr. John Delony:
  “You're not going to talk trash about my husband in front of me, especially not when he's trying this hard to change.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:05 – 14:45: Caller #1: Marital violation - advice and safety plan
• 15:43 – 34:45: Caller #2: Insecurity about height, dating, and self-worth
• 35:51 – 45:29: Caller #3: Estrangement between adult son and father; boundaries for Elizabeth
• 47:23 – 51:54: Parenting and school bus anxiety (Am I the Problem segment)

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Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Empathetic, direct, sometimes blunt but always supportive and validating. Dr. Delony doesn’t shy away from hard truths and encourages action grounded in self-respect and safety.
• Recurring Themes:
  • Personal boundaries and agency
  • Importance of safety and trust in relationships
  • Acceptance of reality (and the unchangeable)
  • Embracing self-worth and honesty in all relationships
  • The hard work of healing, forgiveness, and letting go

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This summary encapsulates the richest moments and critical advice from the episode, empowering listeners to safeguard their own well-being, honor their values, and navigate the messiness of relationships with courage and clarity.

Transcript

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

My husband and I have been married nine years. We've had a lot of ups and downs. Like most marriages, I was looking at his laptop in a photos folder. The subject line was my love. It was photos of me that were taken without my knowledge. Almost like what a stalker would take of somebody.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not gonna like what I'm about to say. Okay. What up?

[Co-host Kelly]

What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's John with the Dr. John DeLoney show taking your calls from all over the planet. I'm sitting here in Nashville, Tennessee, but via the overlords of the technologies, we're able to talk to each other and man, sit with each other and figure out what's the next right move for your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your kids, your spouses, whatever you got going on. Go to johndelony.com, ask a s k and we will figure out what's the next right move. Let's go out to Ash Ville, North Carolina, and talk to An. Hey, an, what's up?

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Hi.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

How are you? I appreciate you taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. I appreciate you calling. Hey, Asheville, you guys. How are y' all recovering right now?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

We're doing okay. We're getting there. We still have a long road ahead of us as far as getting back to where we were, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, just Asheville is one of my favorite places in America and still heartbroken with you and we're still thinking about you guys.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Well, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You bet. What's up? How can I help?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

So I do have an important question, but a quick little backstory, I guess. Before that. My husband and I have been married nine years. We've had a lot of ups and downs. Like most marriages. Recently this earlier this year, I found out he had been looking at pornography. He claimed it wasn't an addiction, but he was doing it multiple times a day. It was affecting his job. He wasn't bringing an inc. So we've had a lot going on with that. He started to act disconnected again recently. So I was looking at his laptop and kind of seeing what was going on, noticed he was like doom scrolling and different things and not working again. I did notice that there was like a click where he was in his email in a photos folder. So when I clicked on it, there was the top email. The subject line was my love. And when I clicked on was luckily me, which I was honestly relieved. But it was photos of me that were taken without my knowledge. Almost like what a stalker would take of somebody. I'm either naked or half naked, getting ready in the bathroom, putting on makeup, curling my hair. But the photos are him taking them from our room without me knowing from a different room. I'm standing in the closet in some of them. And one of the creepiest one, I'm actually, I have on a tank top and panties and I'm sleeping, but I'm sleeping on my stomach with my leg kind of propped up. And he's pulled back the covers and was angling the photo in a weird angle. And it's so violating and disgusting for me to see these because. And they're creepy. And I just don't a. I want to know if I'm valid for feeling that way.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

And baby, if.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

If this has been a repetitive cycle of him doing things like this behind my back. How do I approach this or even attempt to move on or like, I don't know what I'm trying to say.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, dude, I'm so grossed out on your behalf right now. The words.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Okay, well, this is good for you to say. That validates my feelings.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not going to like what I'm about to say. Okay, but you need to get out of your house as soon as you can or he needs to get out of the house as soon as possible. Okay. Very unsafe situation you're in. And you've. You listen to my show long enough. I rarely say what I'm saying right now. Okay. Every one of your concerns and deep fears is 100% valid. The level of violation and is so grotesque. And I. I don't want to stoke your fears, but I'm just going to be honest. Is that okay?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah, of course.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know where he's posting those pictures. I don't know who he's giving those pictures to. I don't know who he's selling those pictures to. I don't know what he's doing with that stuff. And you don't either. But to.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, I was afraid of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To. To that level of grotesque. Violation is so over the top. And it's pervasive. It's going on. It's not like you caught him taking a topless photo of you and y' all had a blow up and he was like, you know what I mean? It's not like that.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Mm.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

When they're over a period of time, like they started like four years ago, and there's photos in the same folder, the ones that I've taped that I sent him, you know, years ago with me lingerie. It's like, look at those.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know. But listen, listen, listen. It's not about the. That's not the. The. Here's why I'm reacting so strongly to this. This isn't about. I'm going to be crass. Is that okay? The getting off here is not the. You unclothed. The getting off here. The. The allure here is not a guy looking at hot pictures of his wife. The allure here is the. The violation. And that's a dangerous place to find yourself, especially in this day and age when those pictures can be anywhere. And so there is a radical, radical difference between you taking a topless photo of yourself and sending it to him, which I got no problem with. I mean, they could end up anywhere. But I got. That's not an issue or y' all mutually taking phot like, fine. This is something that is in gross violation. And it's hard to think, like, if he took these pictures of a neighbor through the window, it's a crime. Right. It should be a crime inside your house, too.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Agreed. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's. It's wrong at every level. And that. That's why I've got such a strong gut reaction, because this is pervasive violating behavior.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

So how should I approach it? Should I say anything to him or should I. No, he doesn't know that I know yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

It's only been, like three or four days.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I would make a copy of the folder is what I would do.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

I. Yeah, I did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I would make a copy of the folder, and I would. In a. If he's safe. If you can have a safe conversation, I would sit across the table from him and say, I expect you to be out by the end of the day. I got to figure out what I'm going to do.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And again, I'm reacting very strong to this. But let me put it this way. This almost never happens in a vacuum like this. Right?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One photo that he snapped of you that you didn't know that you find on his phone. Okay. I could. I could hear the. I just wanted a picture of you while you're out of town. Like, it would be wrong and violating and disgusting and whatever, but I wouldn't react this strongly to that. That'd be a big problem. It'd still be criminal, yada, yada. But this is an ongoing secret thing. And. And if you can see where I'm going with this, it's escalating. I always want to look at trend lines. There's one thing about snapping a picture of you in the closet. There's another thing about snapping A picture of you coming out of the shower. Now it's. You're sleeping, and he's physically. You see what I'm saying? This is like. It's. It's just. It's moving. And that escalatory behavior. Dude. Yeah, There's. There's a bad deal. It's a bad deal. And the next steps are, I need you to go call a therapist in your area and. Or if you have a couple of trusted friends or maybe even an attorney, and you ask yourself where you want to take this. Do you need a forensic attorney to go. I mean, a forensic technology person to go through the computer. It's just. You're gonna have to start answering some of these questions for yourself and ask yourself how safe you are.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

True. And luckily, I have a good support system.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. Awesome. Do you. Does this happen with money, too?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yes, that's been most of the struggles in our marriages. He's consistently going behind my back and spending money and doing different things, too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would put a freeze on my credit report today so that nobody can open up anything without you knowing.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where else does this show up? This sort of secret behind your back, alternative world?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Just, like, little lies that I'll catch him in and then big lies. You know, stuff that he'll lie about that's really silly. Like, he'll take our daughter somewhere and not. He'll explain the entire day and leave something out, and then she'll mention. Just.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

It.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Just over time, it. It builds his character, and so I haven't trusted him in forever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. There's no possible way I'm letting this man take my daughter anywhere.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Especially if he's taking her out and lying about where they're going like that even makes my stomach sick. Sick, sick, sick. I didn't want to bring that up here, but that's where I was headed.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sorry to drop this on you, but my gut tells me you knew something was way wrong. Huh?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Oh, definitely.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

You know, you just kind of have a sense or intuition sometimes, and I think I'm still in shock, honestly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Yeah. And that's fair. When somebody's in shock, you have to get people around you that you trust that you can say out loud. And if that means a professional, so be it. If there are friends that you trust or family members that you trust. But my expectation for the people who love you is that anybody who's like, well, hold on, they're out. Okay. Because right now, I'm seeking safety for myself and for my daughter. If that means you gotta go. I always like the idea of the offender leaving, but I know that's not so easy sometimes. I hate when somebody hurts somebody in this way. But then you're the one that has to take the kids and leave. Right. But I also know that for expediency sake, that's the way that has to happen sometimes. Have you. Have you done a. A review of your finances?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah, I do a lot because I'm the. I'm usually the one figuring all that out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So you've got a pretty good sense of where money is coming and where money's going to.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah, and that's. I mean, he's kind of taken advantage of that over the years because I'm the one that provides more on this end. But then that gives me a little bit more confidence with this situation because I know I'll be fine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, no, I'm wondering, do you have access to, like, his Venmo and Cash app and things like that? So you would know if there's $50 charges coming in here or $300 coming in there, that kind of thing?

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Usually I just see it come out of our account, but it doesn't say what it is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Every alarm system I have is going off right now, and.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want to encourage you a. To always remember you're in the driver's seat with what happens next here. And I also want to tell you that I. My hope is that you'll be aggressive. But also, I'm not living in your house and in your skin, and it's way beyond me to tell you what to do next. Just know I'll sit with you. And my hope is that whether you take a legal route, which I'll hope you'll at least explore, a therapeutic route, a elite, like whatever you're doing next, that you'll have good people who will be ready to fight, because this is. You're in shock. And when the shock wears off, there's going to be a lot of exhaling and a lot of grieving and trauma coming. This is a kind of a violation that will stick with you for a while. So you gotta have some good people around you. I'm so sorry and thank you so much for calling and thanks for allowing me to just to be direct and straight with you. But every single alarm I have is going off for you, for your daughter, and for God knows who else is involved. So get the help you need, starting asap. Thank you so much for calling. We come back, a man asks how to find Love when he feels rejected because he's not very tall. I love, love, love my poncho shirt. And now the mornings are getting cooler and I get to pull out my flower favorite poncho shirts, the comfortable performance denims and flannels. Poncho's performance denim has that soft, broken in feel, like you've worn it a thousand times, but it still looks really good. I wear them to dress up events and on stages all across the country. It's got a touch of stretch, so it moves with you and not against you. And these poncho flannels, I love them. You can get them in original or western styles and they are guaranteed to be the softest shirts you own. They're medium weight, yet somehow they're both durable and comfortable. They keep me warm without overheating reading, and they are perfect for layering. Poncho shirts are built for real life. They wick away sweat, they dry fast, and they hold up to whatever your day throws at you. They come in slim or regular fit so you can look nice no matter where you happen to find yourself this fall. Look sharp and stay warm in poncho denims and flannels. Head to ponchooutdoors.com deloney and get 10 bucks off your first order. When you sign up with your email, you can check out a few of my favorites like the Laramie and the matamoros. Again, that's ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney. All right, let's roll out to Baltimore, Maryland and talk to the great and powerful Javier. What's up, Javier?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Hi, John. Can you hear me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can. What's up, brother?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

So much, man. I'm a big fan. It's a pleasure to be on this call with you today. Thank you for taking it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you for calling. What's up, man?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Wonderful. All right. So I am what people like to call a short king. I am short king. Yeah. Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How tall are you?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I'm five foot three.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Five foot three. How old are you?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I'm 28.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

28, sweet. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yes. So I'm tall, you know. You know, I'm not, but, you know, like, it's been like. It's not been anything that's really, like, affected me after much of my life. Like, I haven't really. Well, I've known that. I've always been short. Right. It hasn't really been an issue. Like people treating me the same. I'm getting jobs and all that. But more recently, I've noticed that's starting to affect me a Lot more. Like, throughout most of my life, I've learned that I've had to work harder than most people. People think that I'm younger than I am, so I have to work harder. I have to be stronger, I have to be faster, I have to be tougher. Right. But in dating, it's almost impossible. And I say that because most people just want a taller guy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

And most of the calls that I listened from your show, it's all about attraction. Like, I feel attracted to my spouse, attracted to my wife or husband, something like that. And I'm just really struggling because I'm so far off the baseline. Like, I'm not a loser. Like, I have a job. I travel the world. I've run six marathons. I go to the gym six days a week. I have a pretty fun life to think. And I'm getting lots of advice from different corners. That's. That doesn't sound right to me. So I just want to figure out how to navigate this or how I can go about this when I feel like it's impossible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, dude, thanks for calling, man.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Trying to think of the right way to approach this.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I guess I jumped a lot on you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know what? That's where I want to start.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Listen to me. You are not a burden, brother.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And when you find somebody to love and somebody who will love you, it will. It won't be in spite of. You know what I mean?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yes. Yeah. Like, lots of the advice. So some of. Man of faith and a lot, like, in my church, young adult group, like, we just went through a series on marriage and love and all that. And a lot of the advice I've gotten from them, I'm like, one is that people will feel spiritually attracted to people or they'll be attracted because of things. And I don't think that's true because people that I've seen get married are. And dating just aren't good people, you know? You know, it's like some of the people that I've seen in my church, like, are getting married. I'm like, are part of my friends, like, kind of are, like, bad people, you know? Like, the way you talk to women. Always horrible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

And, like, almost gross.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let's do this. Let's do this. Let's just forget other people.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You've been comparing yourself to people for a long, long time.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yes, sir, I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And no pun intended, but you keep coming up short, right?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yes, sir, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. And I only make jokes with my friends that I love. Right. Okay. So we. You have to decide. I'm done with that part.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Because here's why. Here's why. If you had skinny arms and you're always looking at guys with bigger arms, there's literally a thing you can go do. And so comparison, while frustrating and not super helpful, can be an avenue for change when it comes to how much money you make when it comes to size of biceps. Right. Or whatever. And there will be genetic limitations, but fair enough. You constantly comparing height is a fool's errand, because that's a. That can't change for you.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, I can't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And I would suggest. Good, because you have a resilience and a strength and a. I could go on forever because you've known from a. From an early age, as you mentioned to me, I'm gonna have to swing harder when I punch. I'm gonna have to show up earlier. I'm gonna have to work harder. I'm gonna have to be more likable. I'm gonna have to. You've are. You've already seen the world as it is, how uncomfortable it is. What I'm saying here. And by the way, if you don't struggle with this. What I'm saying sounds harsh. If you do struggle with this. You know exactly what I'm saying. Because it's true. I know the data. Women prefer, like, on. In. On the whole. A taller guy. Right. That's what the data says. And dating apps have destroyed this for guys who are less than six feet tall. Right. Because you can just. You can just check a box, and it just filters out all these other guys.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Right? Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so there is a stark reality, period. And, man, you sound like a pretty freaking amazing guy to me.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But here's the thing. If you walk into every relationship already apologizing for a core tenet of who you are, no one will ever get to know you. They're going to get to know an apologetic version of you. And that's not attractive.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's way less attractive than somebody's height. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah. And then you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you're already walking into a situation, you want to meet somebody, and you're like, I'm short. I'm short. I'm short. I'm short. I'm short. And you shake their hand, you're like, I'm so sorry that I'm so short. And they're Like, I don't like that apologetic. This guy runs marathons and he has a good job and he makes a good living and he's a hilarious dude to be around, but he's just so like, like he's almost embarrassed to be with himself in public. Then that's going to be a turn off and you're going to walk away saying, she won't like me because I'm too short. And that's going to reinforce that. You see what I'm saying?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see that. I see that entirely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm a big, tall guy and almost every friend I have is shorter than me. Some considerably shorter, some a little bit shorter, some way shorter. Then I will tell you, in every one of their cases, confidence is a powerful, powerful thing when it. In terms of attraction. And I'm also not going to lie to you and say life would not be easier if you were 6 foot 3 versus 5 foot 3. That's just not true.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so there's something about saying, I'm worth being loved. And I'm going to confidently say, I bring a lot to somebody's life. And I, I wince. Anyone tells me they're like, we're going through this marriage thing. And I think I'm getting bad advice because usually you probably are. And by the way, there are very much spiritual connections. No question about it.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you're able to be alongside somebody in proximity, whether it's at work, whether it's in a faith practice, whether it's somebody on your street that you see all the time, you can get to, quote, unquote, know them and have some sort of fun like humor connection or spiritual connect. Like. But most of the time you look across the room and you see somebody and you're like, I think that person's attractive, period.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And hopefully it's some sort of alchemy of both.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or all of it. Right. And also I'm an acquired taste when it comes to looks.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Guy, man.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

I'm just saying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I appreciate that, but my wife, like, she saw me when we, she was 18 years old, she saw me on a stage playing music. And that was the attraction at first. Right. And then she's like, well, deal with his face.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, whatever.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Fair enough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, but you see what I'm saying, Like, yeah. So tell me. I'm meeting you for the first time, Javier. Tell me a couple of things that make you a pretty that you, when you look in the mirror, you're proud about You?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, yeah. Like. Like, I. I work hard, of course. And. And I.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

And.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

And I just enjoy life. Like, I enjoy running marathons. Like I said, I've been to 40 countries. I think I've done a lot of crazy things. I like to go inside caves and go spelunking. I like to live, like, an adventurous life, right. I just enjoy working hard and try to make people happy, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Who. Who has rejected you, who has gone out. Gone out on a date with you and said, man, you're. You're the full package. You'll provide for a family. You're. You'll take me on adventures. You will scratch and claw and fight on our behalf, but, you know, you're just too short. Who. Who is. Has that actually happened?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

It has happened like that, but I feel like it just has implicitly or just like, it's like. It's like an unconscious bias because it's like. It's like, I hate to compare other people, right? But, like, I put things, like, on a list, right? And the only thing that I can think of that is different for me based on someone else is my height. That is the only thing I can think of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Fair.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

I can't think of anything else.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I've tried logicing this problem out. I've tried to do the old crushing Boomer dead discipline thing, try and work hard and logic this thing, but I can't think of it. This is the only thing I can think of that's holding me back. And that spark of, like, attraction that makes, you know, like, that side glance, like. Or that look that they give, like, it doesn't happen to me. And I feel like I get friend zoned really fast because I'm just not. Like, I'm so far off the baseline, and that's what makes it hard. I don't have much experience because of that. Like, I never really dated in high school. I dated a couple people in college, but it didn't really work out. And. Yeah, so I don't have much experience to how this works because it doesn't really happen, for lack of a better term, which hurts. But that's just how it is, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I actually want to challenge two things. One positive and one is going to make every listener cringe.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay, go ahead.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think it's always implicit bias. I think there are people that look at someone who's five foot three, and that is very conscious bias. Okay. I don't think it's like. Well, I just don't know what it is. Like, I think people think inside their minds. I only want to date a guy who's this tall.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

That's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so I, I don't want you to think that people don't know. They do.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Hey, they do. They definitely do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And how old are you?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I'm 28.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

28. I just recorded another show about an hour ago and I was Talking to a 28 year old or 29 year old who's struggling with trying to find attraction. And what's happening in the current dating world if you're not using apps, okay, Apps, by the way, are a nightmare.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

They are, they're lunacy, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But everyone takes the thing that they're most self conscious of or the actual thing. Weight, height, big nose, breasts, too small hair, losing hair. Like whatever thing has haunted you your whole life, it becomes the lenses by which you see the entire world. And so every reason you don't have the thing that you're hoping for is the is is because of that. Listen to this crazy thing, okay? They did a study where they took these women and they said they told the women, we're gonna go and we are going to study the bias of people who are interviewing, okay? And they brought in makeup artists and they gave these women scars with makeup, like facial disfigurements. And they told the women, we're going to go in there, you're going to apply for jobs and we want you all to come back and report on bias, on uncomfortable things they said and all that, okay? At right before the interview started, the makeup artists came back in to touch up these folks, but they took the scars away. And so these women were not disfigured. They sent them into the interviews and the women came back reporting way out of whack bias, awful things that were said, judgments, etc, okay? So here's the more. There's, there's a lot of findings here, but here's the main moral of the story. Whatever you think the person across the table is thinking about you, it's how you're going to hear everything they say. It's how you're going to interpret every action they take. It's going to be the lens by which you view the world. And so when you sit down with somebody, when you meet somebody, when you're hanging out with a group of people, the lenses that you're wearing are, I'm short, I'm short, I'm short, I'm short, I'm short. Not dude, I'm a great hard worker. I would figure out a way to take all you guys down. I run marathons, I travel, all that. Those aren't the lenses that you wear. As though any of you would be super lucky to be with me, right? The only thing you're wearing, the only glasses you're wearing on. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I have this thing about me I can't fix. And that in and of itself is very unattractive. And so I want to confirm for you. Yes. The data says that women in large mass. This is not generalizable to everybody. If they're checking boxes, would check a taller guy. You're right. That's a true statement. Okay. And. And confidence is a powerful, attractive thing. Stability, adventure, discipline. Those are incredibly attractive things. So my challenge for you is to begin entering into some of these spaces. Even if you get a pair of glasses that are just windows, that you literally put on a pair of glasses when you walk in to remind yourself, I'm a pretty amazing guy, and if you don't want to be with me because you think I'm too short, that's fine. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, yeah, I understand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And none of that helps at all, does it?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

No, no, no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, here's the thing. I know it doesn't. And I know you're gonna face a ton of discrimination, and I hate it for you.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

This is what it is. No, it's like a. You know, it's like I've always been told that. That have a pretty big personality. And in my group of always, like, work in the room and talking with people. Yeah, but how often do you end.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That big personality with, hey, can I take you out for coffee tomorrow?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Not that often.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, shoot your shot, brother. Because here's the thing. You're going home empty handed anyway with no dates.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You might as well take some shots, right?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah, you make a good point there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, I don't know a person. I literally don't know a person who's not still insecure. You know what I mean? I just don't. I don't know that person. And so I. I want. Here's what I want to communicate to you. You're not crazy. There is a tremendous discrimination towards shorter men. There just is. And also, I don't know anybody who doesn't look in the mirror and wish they looked differently. I just don't. And everybody has to wade through. You're gonna have to punch through harder. But everyone has to wade through discomfort and saying, hey, would you like, to go out on a date with me. And the way the apps are designed, they are able to just filter out millions, if not billions of amazing people from amazing relationships that would have otherwise organically happened if someone had just had the courage to say, hey, you want to go out and grab some coffee? And the other person said, yeah, I will. And you'll laugh and you have a good time. And you say, man, that person wasn't my type. But, dude, I'm having a great time. And me and my wife, when we met, we are not each other's type by a thousand miles. And that was almost 30 years ago. So for whatever that's worth, brother, you are awesome, awesome, awesome. Thank you for your call. Thank you for laughing with me, and thank you for just being vulnerable and honest. I'm going to tell you, change those glasses, change how you walk into a room, and then shoot your shot, brother. Start asking people out in person. And if there's nothing doing, call me back in six months and we'll. We'll go to round two. I'm grateful for you, man. When we come back, a woman asks how to support her husband and their son when they are not speaking. All right, let's get cozy. You know that I love adventures. And it's the fall, and I like being out and about in the woods. But I'm telling you, by the end of the day, when I get home, I'm ready to shut it down. And when I do, I want my bed soft. I want everything cool and ridiculously comfortable. And that's exactly what Cozy Earth sheets deliver. They're amazing. Bamboo sheets are super breathable. They regulate temperature, and they wick away heat and moisture. I sleep cooler and more comfortable with Cozy Earth sheets. And it's not just me. My entire family is hooked on them. And we also got this Cozy Earth cuddle blanket thing. We all fight over it. It's ridiculous. It's ultra soft, it's plush, and it's got some weight to it without being too heavy. It's like an anxiety blanket combined with a hug from your grandmother all at the same time. It's amazing. Cozy Earth can help you build a space that's a retreat for you and your family, just like they've done for me and my family. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 40% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, tell them you heard about Cozy Earth right here on the Dr. John DeLoney Show. That's cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 40% off. All right, let's go to Denver, Colorado, home of the secret airport, and talk to Elizabeth. What's up, Elizabeth?

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Hi, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up?

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Great. How about you?

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Thanks for talking with me. I appreciate everything you do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Appreciate you. How can I help?

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

I feel caught in the middle between my husband and my son. My son's 22, and he is mad at his dad, and the relationship has been strained for a while, but since my son moved out about four or five months ago, he basically wants to go. No. No contact, and has really been not communicating with my husband at all. It's a little bit more complicated because they both work off our property, so they do see each other, interact with each other, but, you know, past each other. But there's a strain in the interaction, and I'm sort of getting both sides.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Of it, and I don't want to.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Be caught in the middle. Honestly, I can see both of their sides. I have compassion for my son because I do understand that he needed more from his dad than his dad gave him. But I do understand that my husband's tried really hard and wants to make it better, wants to make wrongs right. And I really, honestly get to see both of their sides, which is so tough. But I don't support no contact. I do want my son to work through it.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

What. What.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What brought your son to such a drastic, like, boundary?

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Well, he's really pissed at him for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For what? Like, what was the thing that happened?

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

I felt like. I felt like it was a combination of things that happened. And then when he moved out of house, it was sort of just easier not to have to deal with it. He's mad at him because when he was growing up, my husband definitely was a yeller. So, you know, he would come home and yell. That doesn't work for anybody, and that causes a lot of resentment. He's mad about Adam for how he treated me like. For yelling and stuff like that, because my husband owns a business, and my son worked with him for many, many years, including, like, the first year after high school. And he would be, you know, stern and yelling at the crew, and then my son would be there. That would be embarrassing for him. And, you know, he wanted his dad just to behave better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So why does your son keep showing up in his, like, working at the same place? If he wants to be a grown man and cut ties, why doesn't he be a grown man and cut ties?

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Well, he has. He started. He has his own business. He doesn't work with him anymore. But they both are. The businesses are based on our property.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

They don't.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

They don't work in the same place anymore. The same business. They both on their own.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But. But you're. Your husband owns the property.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Oh, yeah, we own it.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, if, if, if my son thinks I'm such a bad person. And by the way, the way your husband acted. You're right, it was ridiculous. Stupid. He acted like a child. Right.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

He did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And your son is right to be upset with his dad. But. Yeah, if I'm going to be a grown man and put up boundaries, then I'm going to accept the responsibilities of my boundaries.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Which is not to work on the property.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. If I would be tough and hard, that would be tough and hard.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I don't.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

I honestly like having him there. That's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course you do, because you. Here's what. You have some guilt and shame.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I do.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

And I really. I really did try hard. I mean, I, I do have a nice relationship with him, but I, I do feel bad about. I do feel bad about repeating. I feel like I repeated some of the pattern of my own dad who chose work over family and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Kind of stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And there's part of you that feels guilty that I should have protected him. I should have gotten the middle of it. I should have, I should have, I should have, I should have. And all those things may even be. All of them may be true. They're probably not. But. But all we can deal with is right now.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here, here's what I, I always recommend to folks caught in the, in the. What I would call getting triangulated in your situation. I would tell my husband, that's my son, and we go out for lunch or breakfast once a week. And you can whine all you want, but that's my son and you're not getting the middle of that. And I would tell my son, that's my husband and he screwed up and he is working his butt off to change and not yell. And I believe in forgiveness and I believe in transformation, redemption, and I'm giving him that shot. And so if you want to be a grown up boy and just talk trash, you're not going to talk trash about my husband in front of me, especially not when he's trying this hard to change.

[Caller 1 (Married Woman)]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

It'd be more, more of a boundary with my son, like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you could tell him, you don't get to talk that way about my husband. If you want to badmouth your dad. While you're still working on his property, by the way. It's. I mean it's kind of like the dog with the, with the loud, the little dog with the loud bark who has the huge dog right behind him. Like cool. It's easy to talk, it's easy to run your mouth when you're not paying rent, but alas. Right. Yeah, but you don't get to talk about, about my husband. He screwed up. It should have been different. It wasn't. And you have a choice now. Do you want to be a part of making it better or do you want to go do your own thing? You're 22 years old.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

So I got to. I felt like now that you're saying this, that I was still stuck in that like younger kid mom mode.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You are.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I want to try to make it.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Better for him and to process it and like move through it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But he's not interested. He's interested in, in two things. Differentiation, which is age appropriate. 22 year old men should be flexing their muscles against their 50 year old dads. That's normal, right? Okay, that's. That, that sort of tension, especially in the modern world, isn't a thing to be scared of. There's. There's a natural. I have to find my place.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I personally in my house, am doing a ton of work on my end where like for, since my son was a little boy, making sure he knows that I love him deeply and I hug him and I look him in the eye and tell him I'm proud of him. And now that he's older, I send him messages on a regular basis. I. I want him to know when this differentiation happens. And by the way, he's 15. It's already happening in my house right now.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want him to know we are two separate men. I'm a separate man and you're growing into a separate man. But I will always be on your team. Okay. And so it makes that separation not one of combativeness, but one of partnership. But so be it. So that part, a 22 year old trying to flex and see I want to do the things my way. Now that's normal. What's not normal or what's, what's coming from a place of hurt is I have to badmouth my dad and trash him some. I'm telling the truth. But I'm still trashing him in an effort to make my tiny 22 year old manly self feel a little bit taller. And you're not going to do that on my dime. You're not going to do that on my husband.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

So it's okay to set that boundary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Yeah, okay, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But do it from a place of truth so your son doesn't feel insane.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's what it would look like in real life. Hey, son. I'm taking you out. We're going to start going to lunch or breakfast every week together. I'm your mama, and we're going to do that. Mom, I'm too. No, I'm your mom. We're doing that. If you're working on my property, you have to have lunch with me. My rules. Fine. And then at that first lunch, after you've established this is going to be an ongoing thing, say, hey. The way your dad yelled and treated us growing up was wrong. And it was wrong that I let it go on, and I'm sorry. The way your dad embarrassed you when you're working for him after. After high school, that was wrong. And I'm watching a man in real time work his butt off to change. You don't have to be a part of that. But I'm not going to let you run down dad anymore in front of me. You're gonna have to find new people to complain to.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

I guess that brings up a little bit of fear, as if he'll go back for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He just might. He just might. Yeah, but listen, any other. The relationship you're trying to prop up is a facade. And if it's based off of bashing somebody that you go home to every night, that's not a real relationship.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And so here's what. Here's what we're trying to do. I'm trying to tell my son, I'm gonna walk alongside you, and I'm your mom. I'll always be your mom. I'm always gonna love you. And he may say, I'm not coming to breakfast anymore. And you can say, I'm gonna be here.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I love you, and I always will love you. And I hope you'll be here, too. And I hope at some point, forgiveness is not for your dad. Forgiveness is for you. Because every morning waking up in your shoes has to be exhausting because you.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

Wake up angry, okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you know what? That's going to turn him into someone who yells at people. I know.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

I totally agree with you. I totally agree with that one.

[Caller 3 (Javier)]

I've been worried about that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He won't do this. But here's the exercise that I always do when I'm sitting with somebody in person. I hand them a brick And I say, hey, who's carrying this? The person who hurt you or you? Because this is your rage. Set it down, man.

[Caller 2 (Elizabeth)]

Yeah, set it down right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or if you want to carry it, cool. And then you and your husband can have broader conversations. Now be honest. If your husband's not changing, if he's still yelling and screaming at everybody and kicking and moaning, you have to make grown up decisions about that's just him. And I'm going to choose to live here. I'll love you either way. Or I'm going to start drawing my own boundaries. I'm tired of you yelling and screaming, stop. You cost us our relationship with our son. I'm not doing it anymore. You get to. You get to begin to make some of those boundaries. Anytime you put up a boundary, there's always a right and honest fear that someone's going to see that boundary or meet that boundary and they're going to go the other way. And as adults, they get to do that. And you said it best, Elizabeth. You're still trying to treat him and comfort him as though he's a child and he's not. He's a grown man making grown man decisions. Sense. But when it comes to triangulating, I. I'm backing out of that nonsense. I'll tell everybody you're welcome in my house. Whoever comes over first is welcome in my house. And I'll talk to you and listen to you, but I'm not going to talk bad about you in front of the other person. It's not going to. It's the best way to keep yourself whole and good. And by the way, it's the best way to preserve that relationship over time for everyone. Thank you so much for the call, Elizabeth. You're awesome. Time for that 22 year old to find out the full weight of the responsibilities he's asking for. And can I just say kudos to your husband for saying, you know what? I did this wrong. I acted like a child my whole life, yelling and screaming at kids and at my wife and at co workers, and it was stupid and immature and I'm done with that life and I'm going to grow up. Good for him. Tell Legacies Change, man. Tell Legacies change. I'm all about redemption. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. All right, Kelly, am I the problem?

[Co-host Kelly]

All right, so we have a question from Paul in Cincinnati, Ohio. Paul writes, my daughter has expressed an interest in riding the bus this year. She's going into the third grade, and ever since preschool, we've Been driving her instead of her taking the bus. I brought this up with my wife who said she would ask other local moms about their experiences. I tried to calm her fears by offering to pay for a tile and to get Life360 and that if bullying ever became a problem, we'd go back to driving. When I talked to her about it, she suffers from anxiety. So I get a lot of questions like, what if the bus breaks down? What if she forgets her backpack at school so I can't track her location? It's gotten to the point where I get frustrated trying to fight her anxiety over it that I dropped the issue. Am I the problem for my daughter? For wanting my daughter to take the bus?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, I. And I. I hesitate to call any of this a problem. I think it's just, I don't know, it's everybody's lived experience all at the same time. The funny. I think he's the funniest working comedian out right now. His name's Derek Stroop. He has a great bit. On the bus was the Internet before the Internet and the further back you went on the bus.

[Co-host Kelly]

The dark web.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The dark web, yeah. And he's like, I've seen that one. In no place should third graders be on the same bus as 10th graders. Right. So I mean when it comes to bus riding, it, it depends, right? Is it age specific and whatever. When it comes to buses breaking down. Yeah, that. I don't have any concerns about that at all. Because there's. I used to drive a bus with high school kids. Like there's mech. I mean there's people to call. Etc. That's when someone needs to work on their anxiety issues. The, the bigger control issues. But I don't fault your wife for being concerned that she's putting her three year old daughter. I mean it's the three. Her third grade daughter on a bus. And I don't fault you for saying, dude, the bus is going to the school, it's fine. Especially if it's age appropriate on the bus, that kind of thing. I guess the bigger. What like if I have a problem here, it's letting the third grader dictate how I get to school or not. Mom and dad decide what's the best thing for that kid, not that third grader. And if the third grader wants to try, like I actually want to like smoke on the way to school because it'll make me feel better. You're not going to do that. Right? So if a kid says, I really want to try the bus maybe once a week. But I like dropping you off. It's a important time for us to be in the car. It's not a big deal for us when it comes to getting to work on time and etc. I wouldn't let the kid drive that. But also I like the idea of your kids wanting to experience something and not feeling like the weirdo kid. And if it's like my daughter, you may be a dad who's a little bit dramatic when you drop your kid off and she gets embarrassed and runs away. Dude, I'm the worst to drop off. Like now when I'm pulling in my daughter. Like, dad, don't. Just whatever you're about to do, don't. I'm like, what you mean? Turn the music up and sing real. And she's like, dad, don't, dad, don't. It's awesome. But she doesn't like me dropping her off anymore because I was a little bit much. So I. That's a. I don't know. What do you think?

[Co-host Kelly]

My kids took the bus because they wanted to. And so I don't have a problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

With it at all.

[Co-host Kelly]

Now there was a year was a weird thing that happened for a little while where they were taking middle school and elementary kids at the same time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Co-host Kelly]

And I had. Mine were in elementary and we, we stopped taking the bus for that period of time because I didn't think they needed to be on the bus together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I remember middle school.

[Co-host Kelly]

And so my like third grader didn't need to be on with them, but overall they've taken the bus. And I mean, I have a handicapped daughter who she had to take for quite a few years coming home from her after school program. A city bus that was made for handicapped people. And we put mechanisms in place. She had a phone, you know, different things like that she texts us when she got on the bus. And then so I get there being a nerd, you know, something nervous. But you gotta let them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Co-host Kelly]

Fly a little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So, yeah. Do what's best for you and your wife. And if there is an anxiety issue, a broader one, my guess is it's not only related to the bus. I bet it's happening in other places. And that's something that's worthy of going to talk to a counselor about or talking to a therapist about. If you guys just want to let your daughters spread our wings a little bit as a third grader, just say on Tuesdays you take the bus or Thursdays you take the bus. And we'll try it out for a while. And like Kelly said, if it's mixed ages I got, that's probably not a wise thing. But depending on if you may be in a rural community, that's all you got. And as for my house, I love those times when I get to drop my kids off in the mornings. It's just precious time for me. So every house is different. I just wouldn't let a third grader dictate the house. But I don't see that's a problem. I see just as a bigger. Everybody's doing the best they can, so get to the roots there. Love you guys. Stay in school. Bye.