My Husband Loses It After 10 Minutes With The Kids

Summary

Summary of "My Husband Loses It After 10 Minutes With The Kids"

The Dr. John DeLoney Show, hosted by Ramsey Network, focuses on providing caller-driven insights into relationships and mental health challenges. In the episode titled "My Husband Loses It After 10 Minutes With The Kids," released on April 18, 2025, Dr. John DeLoney engages with multiple callers addressing diverse familial and personal issues. This comprehensive summary captures the essence of each conversation, highlighting key discussions, insights, and conclusions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Kate: Helping Her Husband Manage Patience with the Kids

Call Timestamp: [00:22] – [14:05]

Issue:
Kate reaches out for advice on how to help her husband better manage their interactions with their children. While he handles the infants well, he becomes impatient and frustrated around their three-year-old after about ten minutes, leaving Kate without breaks.

Discussion Highlights:

• Understanding the Root Cause: Dr. DeLoney identifies that Kate's husband may be experiencing anxiety and impatience stemming from his inability to handle tantrums effectively.
• Skills Over Character Flaws: Emphasizes addressing the issue as a skill deficit rather than labeling him as inherently bad.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[06:00] The stake of his relationship with his daughter and his wife are on the line right now.”
• Practical Solutions: Suggests actionable steps such as having dedicated time together (e.g., a family breakfast) to realign parenting strategies and support each other.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[11:14] I ache for him... it's time.”
• Encouraging Growth: Encourages the husband to seek external resources and develop new parenting skills to improve family dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “[07:22] If you approach him as a skills issue... Do you get the difference?”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[14:05] I believe in you guys.”

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2. JT: Managing Past Struggles Impacting Relationship with Daughter

Call Timestamp: [18:42] – [37:48]

Issue:
JT, a 27-year-old, discusses how his past struggles with addiction and an affair are affecting his relationship with his three-year-old daughter and his wife. He feels overwhelmed by work stress, which spills over into his home life, making interactions with his daughter challenging.

Discussion Highlights:

• Developmental Understanding: Dr. DeLoney reassures that a three-year-old’s behavior is developmentally normal and not a reflection of JT’s relationship quality.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[22:00] Your daughter's being three. My bigger concern is... you're at a fragile emotional state.”
• Self-Management and Mindfulness: Emphasizes the importance of JT managing his own stress and emotions rather than expecting his daughter to influence his mood.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[25:20] Make that commitment right. Right now, today.”
• Forgiveness and Continuous Improvement: Encourages JT to forgive himself for past mistakes and focus on being a better husband and father moving forward.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[37:43] It's game on now, my brother. Good call.”

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “[24:11] That has to be your job.”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[30:15] If you're staying vigilant, but stop carrying it.”

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3. Paige: Dealing with Resentment Towards Therapist Father

Call Timestamp: [39:59] – [49:04]

Issue:
Paige seeks guidance on how to process her anger and resentment towards her father, who is a therapist. She perceives a disconnect between his professional knowledge and his behavior at home, especially regarding his relationship with her mother.

Discussion Highlights:

• Avoiding Over-Diagnosis: Dr. DeLoney advises Paige to refrain from diagnosing her father and instead focus on specific behaviors that cause her distress.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[44:40] Don't. Don't. Don't diagnose your friends and your neighbors...”
• Setting Boundaries: Stresses the importance of establishing clear boundaries to prevent emotional manipulation and triangulation within the family.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[48:49] I won't do that... put up boundaries.”
• Focus on Personal Growth: Encourages Paige to continue her path in therapy while maintaining professional objectivity and personal boundaries in familial relationships.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[49:04] Go be a great therapist. The world needs you.”

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “[47:57] And it always collapsed the relationship between everybody.”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[49:04] Go be a great therapist. The world needs you.”

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4. Kelly: Explicit Romance Books vs. Pornography

Call Timestamp: [52:12] – [61:52]

Issue:
Kelly questions whether reading explicit romance novels is as harmful as watching pornography, particularly regarding mental health and relationships. She argues that romance books involve character development and lack the exploitation often associated with porn.

Discussion Highlights:

• Content and Context Matter: Dr. DeLoney agrees that romance books do not involve real harm or exploitation, differentiating them from pornography.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[53:34] You wrote this question. I know you did.”
• Potential for Addiction: Highlights that any form of sexual content can become problematic if used as a means of escape from real-life issues.
  • Dr. DeLoney: “[55:02] It cannot be as, quote unquote, damaging neurochemically as watching hardcore pornography.”
• Balanced Consumption: Encourages intentional and balanced engagement with such content to avoid negative impacts on personal relationships and responsibilities.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. DeLoney: “[54:41] In some you're like, you still don't know what you're talking about.”
• Dr. DeLoney: “[55:02] It cannot be as, quote unquote, damaging neurochemically as watching hardcore pornography.”

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Conclusion

In this episode, Dr. John DeLoney provides compassionate and practical advice to callers grappling with familial and personal challenges. He emphasizes the importance of communication, setting boundaries, self-awareness, and skill development in fostering healthy relationships and personal well-being. By addressing each issue holistically, Dr. DeLoney not only offers immediate solutions but also encourages long-term personal growth and resilience.

Key Takeaways:

• Skill Development Over Blame: Addressing issues as skill deficits rather than personal failings can lead to more constructive solutions.
• Importance of Boundaries: Establishing clear boundaries is crucial in preventing emotional manipulation and maintaining healthy relationships.
• Self-Forgiveness and Growth: Forgiving oneself and committing to continuous improvement are essential steps in overcoming past mistakes and building stronger relationships.
• Balanced Consumption of Content: Being mindful of how and why one engages with certain types of content can prevent potential negative impacts on mental health and relationships.

This episode serves as a valuable resource for individuals seeking guidance on managing complex family dynamics and personal struggles, offering actionable steps and empathetic support to navigate their challenges effectively.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up? What's up? Listen, me and Dave Ramsey are hitting the road and coming to a city near you, bringing our shows about life, money and relationships to your town. It's almost here, so don't wait. Grab your tickets for this amazing [e-mail] tour.

[Kate]

How can I help? My husband better manage our kids. He's not that awful with like the babies, but once they hit the tod.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's not that awful. He's only medium. He's medium awful with the babies. He's full awful with the. What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show, taking your calls on your relationships and your marriages and your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. The good stuff, the challenging stuff, the dark stuff. Here's my promise. I'll sit with you. For the last two decades plus, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move. And I'll sit with you. I'd love to have you on the show. And show goes out all over the world. We've got gajillions and gajillions of listeners and watchers. I'd love to have you. That sounds gross, like I'm a watcher. People who, who view the show, who listen to the show, consume the show. I'd love to have you on the show. Sometimes just a moment of bravery, reach out ends up helping a whole lot of people. Go to John Deloney. D, E L O N Y John Deloney dot com. Ask a S K and fill out the form and it will go to Kelly and Taylor and they'll see if they can pick you for the show. All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Mo and talk to Kate. Hey, Kate. What's up, lady?

[Kate]

Hi, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How we doing?

[Kate]

I'm all right. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I am doing good, doing good, recovering, but I'm coming back. What's up?

[Kate]

My question is how can I help my husband better manage our kids?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man, I don't have any idea. Help me, help me. I probably need to call you. What's going on?

[Kate]

So we have a three year old and a four month old and he some anxiety and he's pretty impatient and he kind of just gets frustrated after like 10 minutes and then just needs.

[Paige]

To go take a break.

[Kate]

And I don't get any breaks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. How long has this been going on?

[Kate]

He's not that awful with like the babies, but once they hit the codberry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He'S not that awful. He's only medium. He's medium awful with the babies. He's full awful with the, with the older one.

[Kate]

Yeah, so the older one is a little bit worse. Just because, you know, toddlers are little mini teenagers.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But. But also taught like, all right, so I am with the. I remember the exasperated when my son, my daughter didn't do it so much, but my son, when he was just like a, like a ball. I just remember he's a ball of human, right? And it was a newborn, my wife was back teaching and he would just scream in this harrowing scream. I didn't know what to do. And I would just like try everything. Screaming, screaming. I didn't know what to do. And I used to get so frustrated. I would just get exasperated. Like I don't know what to do here. But my wife wasn't there so I had to do something, right? And sometimes I would just take him out, put him in a stroller and just be walking the street screaming. I know what to do, right? And so I get that the three or four year old, now we're getting into like adult grownup temper tantrumy kind of world. Tell me about that.

[Kate]

So I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me say so I have a ton of compassion for mom or dad. Like I need a break for a second. I got to go outside because my nerves are fried. I get that, I get that. And also get the other side of it. Like, hey, one of us doesn't get a break, right? One of us has to be here for the screaming human being. I get that. But tell me about the 3, 2, 345 year old.

[Kate]

I don't know, like she is very independent and likes to do her own thing and she doesn't listen to him because I feel like he like just starts yelling and like puffs and puffs whenever she's like reacting to anything. And like I am able to like talk to her and like validate her feelings and like work her through it and kind of use it as like a teaching moment. But he just kind of freaks out. So then now she doesn't listen to him. And then I think he like is scared that he doesn't want to cause a tantrum by like getting her to follow through with like non negotiable things like brushing your hair after the bath because he doesn't want her to cry because he doesn't know how to handle it and then stresses him out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gosh, this is the most like, dude, you're like talking about every house usa, right?

[Kate]

Now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I guess this is as direct as I would put this. The stake of his relationship with his daughter and his wife are on the line right now.

[Kate]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if this was not about relationships, but this was about feeding his family at work. Hey, we are no longer writing things on paper and putting them in an envelope. We have this new thing called email. You learn how to do it or you're fired. You know what everybody did, they learned how to do email. And so that I know we can do it, but we have to step over our egos. And by the way, it's a big step. And I'm. This is, this is the pot talking to the kettle here. When you look in your tool bag to help solve a problem with your kids and there's no tools in there or there's just one yell or just another tool just hide or another tool just shut down and play video game like it's scary. So I get that. But he has got to put on his big boy pants and decide, I'm going to learn how to connect with my daughter and do this right. Because the stakes are way too high.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you approach him as a skills issue, at least in my house, I will tell you, it's the. One of the greatest gifts my wife gave me besides psychological stability, which I needed desperately. She approached me learning things about my kids as skills, not as character defects. Do you get the difference? It made all the world to me because when I would do something wrong, when I would try to take on my daughter when she was four and there's. Now I've got a 40 year old trying to take on a four year old, which is a recipe for an inferno. Right. She didn't come at me and say, you're stupid, you're dumb. I can't believe you're doing this. She would never do that, but she'd say, hey, this particular approach isn't effective. Try this one. And then I had to be a grown up and go talk to Becky Kennedy. I had to be a grown up and go talk to golf here in Nashville. I had to be a grown up and go learn a whole bunch of skills. Talk to my friend Lynn Jennings back in Lubbock, Texas. I had to get on the phone and learn some skills because the stakes were too high. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm pretty passionate about this just because it was in my, it was my house. Right?

[Kate]

Yeah. And I try, I try to give him like tips on things that he can do and then I kind of like explain like Why I do the things that I do. And I know that he feels really bad because he, like, can't figure it out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He can, he can, he can because he can figure out his truck and he can figure out sports. He can figure out what he wants to figure out.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It just takes a lot of patience and it's really boring and it's really revealing. And I ended up in counseling. Some. Some pretty heavy, heavy counseling because I had some stuff I had to get right with me.

[Kate]

Yeah, I, I'm. I forced him to start therapy, so he just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's always good. So you get, you get what I'm saying? Yeah. How did his mom treat him?

[Kate]

Oh, she just let him do whatever he want. Wanted. He was an only child and she's still the same way today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What about his dad?

[Kate]

Yeah, he wasn't really in the picture.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Does he like the way his mom raised him?

[Kate]

I think yes and no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Kate]

I think he's starting to realize that it wasn't always the best, but she did the best that she could being like a single mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you two aligned on parenting strategies?

[Kate]

I mean, I know for sure. I know you do.

[Paige]

He.

[Kate]

I tell him like what I want and like he agrees with it most of the time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, here's a helpful exercise. Yeah. I want you all to get away for a breakfast. Okay. And I know that sounds insane right now. Can you, can you pump or something? I don't know. The mechanic. Can you get away where it's just y'all two for one breakfast for two hours? Is that possible? Okay, I want you to do that and I want you to hold both of his hands across the table and say, I see a husband who loves me and our two kids more than life itself. And I'm so grateful. Do you believe that? Is that a true statement? I don't put words in your mouth. Yes. Do you believe he's a good man inside?

[Kate]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I also want you to tell him whatever is true in your heart about how he has talked to you about how he was raised and that I don't want to duplicate that here. And maybe that frustration and that smoke and that anger he's feeling. His dad left. He's to go deal with that smoke and anger and rage. Right. Or that powerlessness. That's. That's the feeling. It's that powerlessness. I can't even get a four year old, a ten pound four year old to put her clothes away. Right? I can't. I feel so weak and powerless. And then men Especially take that personally and becomes existential. And then it gets loud. And then I think you'd be real clear. Hey, the stakes are too high here. What was your relationship like with your dad?

[Kate]

He wasn't around.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, sir, are you both kind of flying blind here on what a good dad looks like?

[Kate]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can we put that on the table?

[Kate]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can look at him and say, here's. Now that I'm a mom. Here's what I wish I'd had. And then here's a real fun exercise. Say your daughter's name is Julie. What do we want Julie. Who do we want Julie to be the night she walks across that graduation stage in high school? We want her to be a person of character. Want her to be hilarious. We want her to be strong. We want her to be independent. We want her to be able to follow instruction. Like, all those things. Write all those down and let's distill those all the way back to. Okay. Then as of right now, she's got to know that we love her no matter what. As for our house, no more yelling. As for our house, no more disappearing. And let's put some of those things on paper because I think both of you are. Have you heard me talk about pictures and words?

[Kate]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I think you have a picture of what you want him to be like, and he's got a picture of what he wants his kids to be like. And y'all are talking past each other, so let's go paint those pictures really clearly. Yeah. And then he's gonna have to just be a grown man to get some new skills because he doesn't have a skill set. And you're gonna have to be a grown woman and get some. Get some skills on communicating directly and clearly and go from there. Does that make sense? I don't know if this is helpful or not, but no.

[Kate]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I ache for him. It's like. It's like I want to hug him and also be like, bro, it's time. Yeah, like, hug him and shake him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's shake and then pat, pat and then shake and then pat, pat. Because I've been him. I've been him, and I. I want him to know what it's like. On the other side of this, when your nine year old daughter, like, brings you this hilarious story that she's written in a secret card that says, you're my favorite, you're like, I love you, daddy. You're my favorite, and curls up next to you on the couch when you're sick and says, I want to watch whatever show you want to like. Like, I. I wanted to know what it feels like to be at peace with your kids, and that means you're at peace with yourself. I want them to know what that feels like, and you can't. You just got to tell somebody to trust me. Walk through that. That gauntlet. You know what I mean?

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I'll also tell you that it's become much. It's a much easier process when I know my wife isn't sitting next to me, judging every step I take. She's with me, encouraging me and receiving feedback, too, because it's not like she's perfect. Right. But we're doing this thing together. You're on the right path, man. You're on the right path. You. You can't change him, but, man, you can sure encourage the heck out of him. And on the actual tasks, you can be very, very clear about some tasks. But let's get away. Let's swipe the thing clear. Both of you are trying to have a picture of a dad that you have never experienced in real life. Let's get aligned on that picture, and let's go try to make that picture real. I believe in you guys. We'll be right back. Let's talk about cozy Earth. Listen, in my house, I would prefer to sleep somewhere just south of the Arctic Circle. I like it cold. And my wife, she would prefer to sleep in a fire or maybe, like, in a grill. We can't agree on temperature, but we can agree on how much we both love our cozy earth sheets. And I don't know how they do it, some kind of temperature jiu jitsu. But she stays comfortable on her side of the bed, and I stay comfortable on my side of the bed. And we're both happy with our cozy earth sheets. And it won't shock you to know that before I started learning more about bedding, I just thought sheets were sheets were sheets. And I've come to learn that not all sheets are created equal. There's a huge range of quality from that awful cheap, old fitted sheet I slept on in college to masterfully crafted sheets created with softness, strength, temperature regulation, and comfort throughout. And Cozy Earth is not just another bed sheet company. They make their sheets out of viscose from bamboo. You just have to experience how soft their sheets are to fully understand the difference. Remember, Cozy Earth Spring into comfort sales happening right now with exclusive savings. For you watching or listening to this show, 40% off everything. That's 40% off. Visit cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 40% off. That's C O Z Y. Cozyearth.com DeLoney use promo code DeLoney all right. The rumors are true. Yes, the modern world exposes us to things that were just unheard of until a few decades ago. I'm talking about the little screens and the big screens and the giant screens in our homes and in our offices, the fluorescent lights, the EMFs. These things can affect our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and more. This is why I'm super excited to partner with Bond Charge, a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use Bon Charge products all the time, every day, and I love them. And here's why. I think you're gonna love them too. Studies show that red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress and help with your sleep. It can help you recover from aches and pains and transform your skin and even help with cellulite and stretch marks. My red light therapy panels, the infrared sauna blanket, the EMF mat and more have become a cornerstone of my health and wellness routine. I use them every day. And I also want you to check out Bon Charge's other amazing products like blue light glasses, EMF protection products, infrared sauna blankets, and 100% blackout sleep masks. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15%. That's B O N C H A r g e bond charge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15% sitewide. Go check them out. I just got to Cleveland, Ohio, and let's talk to JT. What's up, JT?

[JT]

How you doing, Dr. John?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing great, brother. How are you, man?

[JT]

I'm doing okay. It's a little bit warmer here today finally, so it's nice to have a break from the cold.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent, man. What's going on, brother?

[JT]

Okay, so my question, long, like windy, twisty question. So I'm just going to jump into it. How much of my past and my struggles do I need to, like, tell my daughter later in life or does that, like, cause problems for her growing up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hmm. What brings that question up right now?

[JT]

So my daughter and I are kind of butting heads. She's three and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. How old are you?

[JT]

I'm 27.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, let's just pause right there. It's. You're right where you need to be, dude.

[JT]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Three year olds run around and bang their head on every boundary possible to see if it will hold.

[JT]

Which is what I've heard. And we've coming come up with the phrase, she's a three Nager and it's wonderful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct. You're not a bad dad. I mean, you might be a terrible dad. I don't know. But, like, just because she's doing that doesn't mean your marriage is bad, doesn't mean you're bad, doesn't mean your past is bad, doesn't mean anything other than she is three years old and developmentally, she's doing exactly what she should be, and she's saying, oh, yeah, you say that stove is hot, I'm gonna find out. And this is just a critical developmental time. And that's why when people call me, they're like, my marriage is messy, or this is happening and my kid's three, I always just stop and be like, all right, call me back in two years and we'll square up again. It's just that. It's just that season, man. All right, so y'all are butting heads. And by the way.

[JT]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You ever seen those cram videos? I forgot the name of the comedian. They're the best. Like the. The goat videos. They're like, cram. Don't get into a, like a headbutting competition with a 3 year old. Everybody loses that one.

[JT]

Yeah. And I'm. I'm learning through that, especially with, like, what I've been working through the past couple of years. So if you're good with it, I'll.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just kind of let it rip, dude. Let it rip.

[JT]

Tiny story. Okay. Struggling with addiction came to a head two years ago. Well, two and a half years ago with an affair. And yours are my life in January. Mine, okay. Told my wife two years ago in January. And we've been on the recovery journey. She's been through a lot of intensive counseling. So have I. Like, and we separated for two months in 2023, then separated for six months last year because we were just band aid fixing and not actually fixing the root issues. We got back together summer of last year, and realizing, like, my daughter's in my relationship is like, it's okay, it's good. But, like, there are times where it's like, I'm getting frustrated with her. She wants mom more than me. She wants, like, she won't listen to anything I say, even if I'm saying it calmly and kindly. She won't listen to me until my wife says, hey, what did dad say? And listen to dad. And then she'll listen. So I don't Know if like totally developing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. There's nothing wrong with your daughter.

[JT]

Okay. So that's not like I haven't like really screwed her up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[JT]

With the separation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[JT]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your daughter's being three. My bigger concern is, is that you're at a place, you're at a fragile emotional state to such a degree that a three year old is threatening the axis upon which your world spins. Let me put it another way. That sounded really dramatic. You're. You're giving a three year old a vote. Like a three year old doesn't get a vote. They're three. Like I'm not going to give a three year old my bad day. I'm not going to give you my feel. Like you're three.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what I mean? Like there's a reason they can't vote. They don't, they don't have. A three year old does not have the cog. They can be manipulative and a 3 year old can like, I mean you're, I don't get through all Piaget and all that. 3 year olds are smart and they can be manipulative, but they are not as cognitively complex as adults put upon them.

[JT]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so she just wants to check in with her mom. Just. That means you and your wife need to be connected there or you and your wife need to come up with. She doesn't check in with mom.

[JT]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that, that will go away over time. What won't go away is she will very quickly. If she has, I guarantee she already has. She knows how to control dad. I can get dad to leave the room. If I push 1 inch past this one line, he'll leave. I can finally get him to give me that candy. If I just push past this one line or I'm uncomfortable because daddy's uncomfortable and he'll. I can do this one thing, he'll get mad, he'll spank me, he'll yell at me and then I can cry and then I'll feel better. But what she's learning is it's her job to make sure dad's emotionally okay. And dude, that cannot be your daughter's job.

[JT]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That was alcohol's job. That was your affairs job. And now you've given it to your daughter. That can't be her job. That has to be your job.

[JT]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[JT]

Yeah, very. Yeah. There's been other stressors that I've been like really letting affect. Me and my wife has noticed, like, hey, you're really stressed about work and it's Affecting our home. So, like, was very clear. Work is just really stressful. Getting pulled 30 different directions to do everyone's job and covering incompetency from lack of effort from where I work. And I work really hard. And I have a different buy in because if I don't work, my family doesn't eat. And I worked really hard to develop that work ethic over the last two years. And even my wife said, hey, you're not allowed to bring work home because, like, of everything that we've been through, we've had very long conversations, we've had boundary talks, we've had rules put in place to keep us both safe. And there are times when the tension of work and just not like really high emotions spill over. And I do tend to get frustrated with my daughter. Not because it's my daughter, it's because it's like I haven't processed other stressors.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, make. Make that commitment right. Right now, today. Make today day one, day one. That that never happens again. Don't make her carry one too, man. She's three.

[JT]

Yeah, okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's the other side of that. I keep hearing in your language that you're trying to put yourself in a position where either you're the only one doing it right, or you're the victim of a thing. And if you're going to work and you're working really hard, even if you have to clean up other people's mess, but it's paying your bills and it's what you want to be doing every day, then exhale and make peace. You work with a bunch of people who don't do their job. Okay, but if you show up every day expecting that thing to fulfill you too, or I'm trying. I don't want to be like A Beautiful Mind here where I'm pulling this piece of data and this piece of data and trying to create a whole new story. But of all the different things you're telling me, everything is leading to a guy that is desperately seeking something external to tell him he's got value and he's okay.

[JT]

Yeah, definitely falling into. That's where I used to be. Like, that was my biggest, like, bro.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That'S you right now. That's you right now. That's you right now. You just moved it to something that's not going to get you arrested or get you divorced, which is work. And that's where most sophisticated men move their addictions. Do you have any friends?

[JT]

Yeah, actually, I've worked really hard to develop really good close friendships. The Past couple years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are those guys you can call and just whine about, work with for a minute?

[JT]

100%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do you have an exercise routine to burn some of this off?

[JT]

Not lately. We just moved. But definitely need to get back into that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Not as a place to escape, but a place to channel some of this energy. Kudos to you, my brother, for getting a group of friends. That's awesome. That is amazing.

[JT]

Thanks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Often I hear in these situations, wives just become trash bins for their whole day because they're the only person their husband has. Right.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about your addiction. What were you struggling with?

[JT]

It was pornography.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Yeah. That even tells me more like. Like.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Searching for somebody out there to tell you to feel. Help you feel alive.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where does that come from, man?

[JT]

That's the house I grew up in and worked really hard with my counselor to kind of address some of that. But no, it was like, I was homeschooled for all 12 years. And so it's like more of a student teacher relationship than a parent relationship.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You've been singing and dancing your whole life, huh?

[JT]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[JT]

Yeah. Can I just. Like, I don't know if you've ever come across this, but this is just something crazy in my life. I got a letter grade for how I cleaned a bathroom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doesn't surprise me.

[JT]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doesn't surprise me. Wow.

[JT]

I can't imagine that much wood at this point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, like, yeah, well. And I'm trying to. I'm just trying to quickly reverse engineered as a parent, like, all right, grade, like, you don't need to know about chlorophyll. Borophyll, but you do need to know about how to clean the bathroom. So I'm going to shift grades to I. I can see the logic there. But they can also see a kid being like, dude, I'm seven. I just got exactly in bathroom. Like, what are we doing? Right. I can see that, too. And so it's. It's like one of those things that, like, as you get older, you'll start to get compassionate because your parents are probably trying to do the best they could. And they were reading a lot of Internet and they're like, yeah, we're gonna do it different. And then they ended up giving their kid a grade on bathroom counter cleaning.

[JT]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, so it's like one of those, like, oh, gosh, this is insane. And also, I've been dead in my own skin for 12 years, and now I'm finally free. And then all of a sudden, the world hands me this box with every active depravity known to, you know, in human history. Yeah. And oh yeah, now I'm married. Now I got a kid that won't listen to me. Now I got people at work that won't do. And it just kind of unspools. So what if I flipped it all over, dude, and said this? Are you still fighting on a day to day basis to put away pornography?

[JT]

No, actually that with a lot of hard work and accountability group, I've been able to find good chunks of sobriety. I had a relapse in January, but since that point there's been no problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cool.

[JT]

And before that it was nine months. Before that it was six or seven months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, but what I'm asking is I, I asked it in too dramatic of a way. But you're staying vigilant, right? You're still working?

[JT]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good. Are you done cheating on your wife?

[JT]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you and your wife sat down and begun to the healing process to get to the root of all this stuff? Okay.

[JT]

Yes. We've worked really hard to get there. We, we actually had our dreaming vision for this upcoming year meeting like last December. And like a lot of your, your tips and tools have really helped us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's awesome. The next gift you can give your family, and this is a tough one, is to deal with the nuclear reactor that's sitting in the middle of your chest. The one that's always hot, always looking for the next person, always trying to get out of the next thing. Always worried about what you just said. Always trying to make sure you're impressing the person over there. Over there. The one whose head's always on a swivel. The eyes are always moving. Situational awareness 24 7, 365, right?

[JT]

Yeah. I'm trying not to care so much what people think, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but you, that kept you alive growing up. You had to because you were getting graded. And listen, your daughter's teeny, tiny little body, think of her just as a walking nervous system. I promise you that little girl wants more than anything on planet earth to run and hug her dad. And her teeny, tiny little body is saying, do not do that. He's electric. And I know this brother from personal experience. And when I freed myself, I freed her. Now I'm getting all choked up on the radio, man. Hold on.

[JT]

No, I, I. Having a daughter is the wildest adventure I thought I could ever be on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know my daughter, dude. She is a human hurricane. And she still, she, dude, she fights me every Single day, literally and figuratively, and I love it. But it's not from a place of nervous system fear anymore. It's from normal developmental. I've got a really tough, amazing, beautiful little girl who's gonna grow up to run some stuff someday. It's not me versus her anymore. It's me with her. But I had to go do my work so that I could show up. Okay. And I had to get my head off the swivel. You get what I'm saying?

[JT]

Yeah. Like, okay, I hear what you're saying now. My brain is like trying to think of like, practical next steps for how to do that. Is that through counseling? Is that through reading, exercise, routine? Like, probably both.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And okay, probably all the above. When you met with a counselor, were you totally honest about what you grew up with?

[JT]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. There. I still see my counselor every other week just because there's a lot of stuff I have to work through.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[JT]

Yeah. That's the one place that, like, I've dumped every little thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So I want you to go ask for some very specific practices, not just tools, but practices on reactivity.

[JT]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The nerd word is mindfulness. It's, it's the gap between stimulus and response. We're going to start to lengthen that gap between when your daughter goes, no, daddy, and the rage that fires up without you even realizing it. And the rage comes from a perceived lack of control, out of, out of power, out of balance.

[JT]

That's exactly what it is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that came from when you were a little bitty kid because you never had any autonomy in your house. You're getting graded on toilet cleaning.

[JT]

Huh? I've never thought to equate like that with how I react to my kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bro, you got a grade on how to pee. You've never, you got a grade on wiping your deuces, bro. You've never had autonomy, not for a second. That's what pornography gives you. It gives you, it gives you the sense of aliveness. And it's not even the pornography. It's the urge. It's the, the, the dopamine buildup. People think dopamine is after you click. It's before you click. It's the build, it's the feeling of. That's the rebellion of a life that has no autonomy. And a three year old little girl just reflects it back to you. And so for the sake of our entire family's souls, dude, you don't get a vote into whether I'm in a bad mood or not. I'm not Giving you that you're three, for crying out loud. You are going to stop hitting. Or you're choosing to fill in the blank, but okay, cool, Go check with mom. And then when you come back, you're going to do X, Y and Z. Like, I'm not going to make. Let her make me mad. She's three. And then what she's going to learn is, oh, mom and dad are united and everything. And then shortly, those need to go check with moms. Those things. Stop. Okay, but you get what I'm saying. I want you to ask your counselor for some very specific tools. Sometimes it's breathing exercises, sometimes it's journaling. Sometimes it's catching yourself being mad and forcing yourself to walk back and get down on your daughter's level and look her in the eye and put both hands on her face and say, daddy got too mad and that was not your fault. That was daddy's fault.

[JT]

Yeah, that I have done. There have been times where I have walked away, took a breath, and then apologized to her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you forgiven yourself for cheating on your wife?

[JT]

I'd like to say yes, But I don't 100% believe that I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Commit to that. Stop carrying it around. If your wife says she's not carrying around, you stop carrying it. Stay vigilant, but stop carrying it. Go be the next best husband you can be the next minute, the minute after that, the minute after that. Okay.

[JT]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's game on now, my brother. Good call.

[JT]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. Grateful for you, brother. Thanks for calling, jt. Stay out of trouble. Appreciate you. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about delete me. My go to provider for online safety, security, and peace of mind. Please don't skip past this. Listen, we all know that we live on the Internets all day, every day, and I wish this wasn't the case, but it doesn't matter. It's here and it's happening. Everything in my life and everything in your life takes place over the Internet. Our work, our health portals, our personal messages and communications. Where we live, we buy most of our things on the Internets now. It's where so much of our life exists. And because so much of our life takes place on the Internet now, somehow it just became normal over time to just give away our address or our email addresses or our phone numbers to random companies who then turn around and sell them to other companies. Ugh. This is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete me. I looked at the reports that my friends at Deleteme have sent me. They reviewed over 35,000 different data brokers that potentially had access to my information, and they've removed my personal info from hundreds of scammy data broker sites. Deleteme has saved me countless hours, days even. And they've sent detailed reports to me showing me exactly what they've removed and from where. I want you to have this kind of peace, too. We can't really avoid the Internet, but we can make our personal data personal again with delete Me. Get protected with delete Me today and get 20% off all delete me plans. That comes out to less than 9 bucks a month. Go to join Jo I n joindelete me.com DeLoney right now, that's joindeleteme.com DeLoney and save. All right, we are back. Hey, don't forget to subscribe like, and review the show with all the stars. You can punch into the Internet boxes. That was my. Is that a good song, Kelly? You don't think you like that song?

[Kelly]

No, I don't think I'll be downloading that one on my playlist anytime soon.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, fine. All right, let's go out to Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and talk to Turn the page. Hey, Paige. What's up?

[Paige]

Hi. How are you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing great. How about you?

[Paige]

Oh, you know, sitting on the floor, throwing treats at my dogs to try to keep them quiet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, one of those days, huh? So what's happening?

[Paige]

I'm gonna read my question because I tend to fumble.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Paige]

How do I metabolize anger and resentment towards my father, who is a therapist, while I also pursue my own career in therapy?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hmm. Why are you angry with your dad?

[Paige]

I mean, obviously, it kind of goes back to being a kid, but the big thing is, is I just see a big disconnect between his work life and his family life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you didn't practice what he preaches?

[Paige]

No, but the thing is, he's an amazing therapist, so it's kind of. There's. There's, like, confusion on my side, too, on how those don't connect.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let me ask you this. Is he your therapist?

[Paige]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so let's. Let's hold him accountable to the role with which he's assigned in your life. Okay, Forget what he does for a living.

[Paige]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are you mad at that he did or didn't do for you as your dad?

[Paige]

Well, I'd probably just say, like, he. He wasn't always a therapist. He became a therapist within the, like, the last eight years, but he. He kind of like self diagnoses himself as a workaholic and he, he knows it. So like, as a kid I just kind of always felt abandoned by him. But a lot of what my anger comes from is recent stuff between him and my mom. And I know it's not my place to get in the middle of that and it might be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is it?

[Paige]

So they had a really rocky start. They did not start off their marriage in the best way and there was a lot of really bad stuff that kind of happened between them in the first couple years. And they've been married for over 30 years now, but now they're empty nesters. And my dad is kind of using his, his therapy knowledge kind of against my mom. And it's, it's really frustrating for me because I'm going to school to become a trauma therapist and what I learned, I've applied to my life. And my dad is such a smart guy. Like, he's, he's really smart and I just kind of, I'm really frustrated with his behavior and how he treats my mom. And some of the stuff that's coming out that I'm learning is just, it's really, really bad. And I don't know where my place is to step in or not because I'm the youngest child of five.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you still, are you in graduate school right now?

[Paige]

Yeah, I'm in undergraduate. I'm kind of taking it slow so that, you know, no debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure, sure.

[Paige]

But I do a lot of my own, my own studying off the course as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So there's a couple of things here that are, are kind of blinking lights at me. Okay. And so I'm, I'm always okay to be wrong. I'm, I'm, I'm often wrong. Okay. But there's a few big blinking lights that are relatively common. And so. Are you in your 20s, early 20s?

[Paige]

Yeah, yeah, I'm like mid-20s.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right, so big blinking light, number one is there's actually some words for it. I won't, I won't nerd out. But students who study psychology, students who are in the first couple years especially of graduate school for psychology, lmft, lpc, social work, whatever. Begin to pathologize and diagnose everything and everyone around them about everything.

[Paige]

Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everything. Everything. And it's a, it's a, it's, it makes sense. But as one colleague I used to, I used to, she used to say, no unauthorized practice of magic outside of Hogwarts. And so if you're not in School. Close the book. Now. School's always fun to be reflective and to, like, ask yourself questions, but it's not until, you know, like, when you. You think you have every diagnosis until you do one of your practicums in a psych ward and you go, oh, that's what that is.

[Paige]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. I was uncomfortable. That is not. That is what we call fill in the blank diagnosis. Right?

[Paige]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so that's number one, which is don't look to counteract your dad's, you know, wizardry with your own undergraduate wizardry. It's a fool's errand. Okay.

[Paige]

Yeah, no, I'm very, very aware of that, because I actually. A lot of this started before I even got into school, and I've been listening to your show forever, and I actually pull a lot of. I actually learned a lot from you, which is kind of. Kind of fun.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I appreciate it.

[Paige]

But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you'll know, so you'll know. What am I? What am I? One of my big things is no diagnosis. Don't. Don't. Don't diagnose your friends and your neighbors and your. Whatever.

[Paige]

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm. Yeah, I've. I quickly understood that in. In the beginning, and I'm like, okay, this is not a good idea.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome.

[Paige]

I. I actively try to close the book on myself. This is all what I'm Perfect.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I. I intentionally don't ever use the words narcissist around my friends. I don't use the words. There's just words like that that are. That are diagnostics. I don't use them. I just don't use them. I say, that guy's a jerk, and I'll leave it to his clinical psychologist to diagnose him. But what I can say is, and this is the part two, focus on the behaviors. I don't care what your job is. I don't care what you're. How smart or how not smart I think you are. Don't talk to somebody like that. And so I don't care what the diagnosis is. That's a context, not an excuse. You can't treat people a certain way. Yeah, I don't care how. I don't care what your IQ is. You can't treat people a certain way. Have some dignity and some decorum, for crying out loud. Right. The third thing is I get involved when somebody's getting hurt. I don't care if that's my role or not my role or my place or not my place. I could care less if somebody's getting hurt. I'm getting involved. And so if your mom's getting hurt, then. And you can't sleep at night without saying something, then say something. Know this. You've probably got a part of a conversation.

[Paige]

Yeah, no, it's. It's weirdly enough, even though I'm the youngest and I know this isn't healthy and I've tried to back off on it, but both of them do kind of come to me to talk about stuff or at least.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but you.

[Paige]

My dad does sometimes because he knows I'm interested in therapy. But then I get his side of the story and then my mom side, and it's like they're two different things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And have you studied triangulation yet?

[Paige]

A little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Google that one because it's happening to you.

[Paige]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it always collapsed the relationship between everybody.

[Paige]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you're getting triangulated into this. What do you think about this? Well, what do you think about this? Do you hear what she said? She told me that you said that I'm out. I am not playing that game. One of the most successful things I've heard from multiple peers, people my age is they tell their parents. Whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. That's my dad. I don't hear you talk bad about my dad or that's my mom. I can't be your safe place for that.

[Paige]

That's actually one thing that I learned from your show that I actually kind of did with my dad because he. He would try to, like, badmouth my mom, and I'm like, hey, I'm not here to talk about my mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[Paige]

Like, this is. This is a different conversation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, but one step further, I'm not going to listen to you talk bad about my mom. If you need to talk bad about mom, you need to get yourself a therapist.

[Paige]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. So that's one thing. Like. Like one is, I'm not going to talk about mom. The next layer of boundary is I'm not gonna sit here and listen to you do it.

[Paige]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if you keep talking bad about mom, you are asking me to leave by your actions.

[Paige]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's a different level of grown upness, of putting up boundaries. But you're not gonna. And I'll tell the same thing about my. About mom. I'm not gonna sit here and let you talk bad about dad.

[Paige]

He doesn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I know, I know. I'm just. I'm just putting it out there. It's just not picking on dad. And I would back all the way out. And as it comes for resentment, I wouldn't give him that kind of power. Like, go study and be the best therapist that you can possibly be. There's tons of hurting people out there that need somebody to sit with them. And if you notice he is not being congruent in the things that he learns versus how he's weaponizing some of these things and how he is like, honoring his patience more than he honors his own kids or honoring his patience more than he honors his wife. Or then make a firm commitment. As for me in my house, I won't do that. The best way to. To navigate resentment is to commit and then live out, step by step, by step by step, a different kind of life. Okay, I'm not going to be that kind of person. The path forward as two adults navigating how to move forward is one person has to turn the lights on and say, here's the boundaries, and I'd love to have you in it. Here's my picture of what us together looks like. Are you in? And as another adult, whether it's your dad, it's your mom, it's your spouse, it's whoever, they can say, I'm not in. And avoiding that reality. I mean, you can kick the can down the road, but that reality is eventually going to catch up with you. And it's heartbreaking at any point. So I'd rather catch it earlier than later. But, Paige, go be a great therapist. Go be the best counselor you could possibly be. The world needs you. The world needs you. We'll be right back. Hey, everybody. Easter is just around the corner, and it's one of the most important days of the Christian calendar. Easter is a season of spring, which means new life and freedom that goes beyond feeling good in any one moment. It's about real, lasting freedom that comes from being intentional, choosing peace, and finding and trusting God. And that's why I love what Hallow is doing this Easter. They're offering a special prayer series focused on finding interior freedom, letting go of the stress, worry, and that constant need to try to control everything. Their prayer series is about finding peace by trusting in God's love and grace and mercy. These short prayers and reflections are designed to help you keep building on those daily habits you started during Lent, so that you can carry that sense of peace into Easter and beyond. And that's just one of thousands of songs, prayers, and meditations on Hallow's amazing app. And they help you stay grounded and connected every single day. So download Hallow right now and get three months free at Hallow. H A L l o w hallow.com DeLoney Again, that's Hallow. H a l l o w.com DeLoney for three months for free. All right, we are back. Kelly, my voice is fading.

[Kelly]

Yes, I know. I can tell.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I kind of feel like this is how the metal singer always wanted to.

[Kelly]

Sound like just does not sound like Sebastian Bach. Just so we're aware, guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's so good. All right, so am I the problem? Go for it.

[Kelly]

All right, so this is from Jessica and she says I read a lot. I'd say 40% romance books. Many have explicit scenes. I recently got into a discussion with friends and I'm wondering if I'm the problem. A friend said I was reading porn.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct.

[Kelly]

And it is the same as watching porn. I disagree for two major reasons. One, no real person is being harmed, trafficked, taken advantage of. Regardless of where you stand on sex work, there's actually none of that happening in books. Two, if my book is 300 pages, maybe 30 or 40 pages is quote unquote porn, the rest is enjoyable. And that's fine because of the other 80 to 90% that's actually character development and plot. Even in the quote unquote smut books that are 50% explicit, I'm still reading 150 pages of plot. What do you think? Are explicit romance books just as bad for our minds and bodies as videos? And my ruining my chances for healthy relationships? Or is mixing in a little romance between real books? Okay, now and then this question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You wrote this question. I know you did.

[Kelly]

No, I did not. But I was never had really thought of it this way. And I was very, very curious to hear your thoughts on it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I was with her 100,000% on point one. I think she's really reaching on her point two. Mainly because there's no plot in those books. Come on. It's not like she's like reading literature that just happened to have some nudity in it, right? Like I was walking through a museum and I saw sh in the. David was standing there, right? Not real. And I actually just did a big event and this question came up. I don't have any data. So the the best generalizable data or I would say non generalizable data, but we'll generalize it here. And by the way, generalized. I say that all the time. All that means is I can make a point about men and cast that upon all men. And when you say non generalizable, that just means I can't say this about everybody, right? But I Think I'm pretty close here. That in some you're like, you still don't know what you're talking about. I'll stop speaking nerd. On the whole, women read pornography, men watch it, and I can't. I've never read a study on this. I've never. Whatever. And that doesn't hold true for everybody. Some women watch pornography, some men, I. What's that? What's the fairy porn? Porn book? Oh, yeah, I read a couple of them first.

[Kelly]

I tried to read the first one of those and could not even get into the book. But the Game of A Court of Roses and Thorns or whatever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Whatever.

[Kelly]

But there's a whole, I think, I mean, that's a whole genre now. Fantasy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It's like Hogwarts After Dark. Yes. Yeah, it's Hogwarts After Dark. But like I, I, like, I read the first, that first book on the airplane. Like, I read it, whatever's fine. I can't from, for the life of me, I've never seen a study on this. It cannot be as, quote unquote, damaging neurochemically as watching hardcore pornography. I can't imagine that. Okay. To the dopamine system, to the whole dopa. Genetic system. I can't imagine that. Okay. At the same time, Anna Lemke writes really eloquently. Like she studies addiction at, at Stanford School of Medicine. She talks about her addiction, literal addiction to romance novels. They became a place where she went to and they got increasingly sexualized and they got increasingly out there. And she had them on her Kindle. She could hit another one and another one and another one and another one. And it was like a morphine drip. Right. And so when any type of sexual content, if you will, becomes a way to escape the life that you have, you're in a big problem. You're in a problem. I will say the visual stimulating stuff, it just, I, I just think it's worse. I think it's not good. It's just not good. And I think it has to do different stuff. I need to talk to Huberman about, like, he has to do different stuff to you. Maybe I'm, I'm wrong and I'm okay being wrong there. I'm not saying that I want to be the, the police on nudity and movies. I'm not going to be the police on like, what's a good book and what's not a good book. Whatever. I think anytime you get into banning books, you get into. That's never gone well in history. Ever, ever, ever. So all that to say is, you know, you know, and I know that's not a helpful thing, but, you know, you know, if. Here's a good example with one of the. The fairy porn books, I told ask my wife to read one. I was like, read this. This is, like, going through like, it's wildfire. And I don't get it. She texts me. This is actually kind of hilarious. She texts me, hey, I'm reading this book. I just read the hottest scene I've ever read. I bookmarked it for you, bro. Town in Motown. You want to say, I got home early that day. I got home, clear the decks.

[Kelly]

Hey, dad.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Shut up, kids. Everybody. Not really, but, like, I read this quote unquote scene. I mean, I went thumbed through it to find out, like, dude, am I gonna have to, like, get on Amazon and get some wings? Like, what are we doing here? Like, I'm down, but, like, I need to know. It was the most boring scene in human history. It was so. I didn't get it. It was like. We were like, no, it was nothing. There was nothing explicit. In fact, I asked my wife, like, when did they start hooking up? And she's like, that's not the. That's not. What are you talking about? That's not the point. I was like, that's pretty much always the point. She's like, no, it was about anticipation and build and nobody knew, but they knew. But maybe one person knew and nobody was watching, but maybe. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I don't know. You. Like, we've been together for a quarter century. I don't know. But. So that led to a hilarious, fun, amazing conversation. I learned stuff. So all I have to say is this. I'm not going to police all that stuff. Like, especially when it comes to literature and whatever. I will say, you know, if you're hiding from your own marriage, you know, if, dude, I can't stop doing this, or I'm increasingly becoming more aroused by these books and about my own life, or. Or I'm skipping sex or intimacy or hookups with my husband or my wife so that I can get under the covers and read these. But, like, then you got a problem, right? And I guess we can, if you want, get super moral about it. If you're going to say, I don't want to have eyes for anybody else, then, yeah, clear the deck, man. If you're going to clear the deck, clear the deck all the way. But as for. It's the. So that's me. Just Spinning off top of my head here, but I don't know if that answers the original question. I don't even remember. What do you think?

[Kelly]

I think I agree with you pretty much 100% on this. I would love to see like a brain scan because we've seen brain scans of when men watch porn.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It lights up like a Christmas tree. Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah. I would love to see a woman reading one of these books. What it does. Is it the same because I'm like you? I don't think it would be, but I don't know. They're not the type of books I read.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know because nobody gets beheaded. There's not true crime books.

[Kelly]

I read three kinds. Murder history or biographies. That's pretty much all I read. But I did try the. Because I knew the whatever court of whatever it was called the fairy porn. I tried and I was like I can't. I mean they're not even human. Whatever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hogwarts Gone Wild.

[Kelly]

Yeah, Hogwarts has kids in it. So let's not. That's a children's thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, sorry.

[Kelly]

So let's not besmirch that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's don't use besmirch on this show. Gosh.

[Kelly]

But I agree with you that I can't think it's the same. But I think it's all about the escaping. If you are escaping something and this is your real life escaping and obviously this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's times to escape.

[Kelly]

Oh yeah. Sometimes I just want to read a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Book but it's being intentional. I'm intentionally escaping.

[Kelly]

I'm intentionally. I don't want to deal with this. I'm going to just get escaping versus numbing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think maybe that's like have a.

[Kelly]

Life outside of this world. Then we've got a problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go.

[Kelly]

But it's, it is a thing now. It is a huge, huge money making genre now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well. And AI do just prints them. Yeah. Like you can just hit a button. Cuz there's hot plot.

[Kelly]

I think, I think the first one, I mean 50 shades of gray started all of it. I think that was the first one. Which one was 50 shades of gray?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I don't know.

[Kelly]

I think that was the first one I remember hearing about like that's when.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It crossed over to like, like bds. Like like some.

[Kelly]

Yeah, but that was the first one I remember hearing from even my friends like oh my gosh. I read this book and I'm sure it was out there before but not that explicit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gotcha. Yeah. Well, still don't know that it beats the real thing.

[Kelly]

I hope not for people. That's not good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If it does so they say. That wraps it up. Another educational episode. If we helped anybody on that one. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye.