My Husband Refuses to Get a Job

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show | Episode Summary Episode Title: My Husband Refuses to Get a Job
Date: June 3, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony, Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around real, urgent relationship and mental health challenges brought by callers. Key themes include financial crises due to a spouse’s inaction, navigating boundaries as a parent and adult child, reconciling faith with family relationships, and the importance of tension in close relationships. Dr. John Delony delivers direct and compassionate advice, encouraging listeners to face difficult truths with practical steps.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Financial Crisis: “My Husband Refuses to Get a Job” (Sue, Vancouver, BC)

Timestamps: 00:16 – 17:32

Situation:
Sue calls in, overwhelmed after 18 months of her husband not bringing in income, leading their family into a dire financial strait.

Key Points:

• Husband’s inactivity is explained by his pursuit of the “perfect job” or business, but without concrete action or results.
• Sue has depleted their savings, is juggling credit card payments, and has started to borrow from family.
• Dr. Delony challenges Sue to recognize her husband is not supporting her or their family, likening his behavior to abandonment (“he's just journaling about it” [08:00]).
• Emphasizes the importance of survival and sets aside emotional/romantic needs for the moment—this is about “basic needs: food, shelter.”

Notable Quotes:

• “He’s not interested in that. It sounds like he’s living his dream life, which is… does he just sit around and play video games?” — Dr. John Delony (03:27)
• “Your husband has effectively left you. He just hasn’t moved out. He’s just journaling about it.” — Dr. John Delony (07:48)
• “You’re not asking for the moon here. You’re asking for lunch.” — Dr. John Delony (11:16)

Dr. Delony’s Advice:

• Validate Sue’s experience and pain.
• Encourages her to develop her own exit plan (“Is it 30 days? 60 days? Is it putting the house up for sale?” [16:40]).
• Advises separating finances and making concrete plans for her own and her child's stability.

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2. How to Trust Your Parents with Your Kids (Jean, Mississippi)

Timestamps: 20:47 – 37:06

Situation:
Jean is planning her first multi-day trip with her husband in six years, leaving their children with her parents. She feels anxious about boundaries not being honored due to her personal trauma history.

Key Points:

• Struggles with her parents dismissing boundaries around food restrictions (eczema-related) and media use.
• A core issue is deep anxiety when cousins (mixed genders) play together undressed, rooted in Jean’s experience of trauma.
• Jean wrestles with feeling broken by her fears; Dr. Delony reinforces she is not broken, but is responding to real past experiences.

Notable Quotes:

• “Going to war with your body when you say things like, I know this is irrational, I know this is dumb — it's not. You've been there, you experienced it.” — Dr. John Delony (30:54)
• “Do you want to keep going to war with your body, or do you want to have a season where I'm going to practice healing?” — Dr. John Delony (35:31)
• “Healing will not mean that what happened to you as a kid didn't happen... Healing means I can feel this way and I can go do the next right thing.” — Dr. John Delony (36:15)

Dr. Delony’s Advice:

• Affirm Jean’s right to have boundaries and to be cautious.
• Suggests being honest and clear with her parents, but acknowledges they can choose whether or not to comply.
• Encourages Jean to ‘practice healing’ by accepting discomfort where safety probabilities are reasonable, instead of avoiding all risk.

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3. Staying in Relationship with a Transgender Child Despite Conflicting Beliefs (Daniel, Milwaukee, WI)

Timestamps: 39:47 – 54:43

Situation:
Daniel’s 18-year-old child recently came out as transgender. Daniel struggles with reconciling his biblical worldview with his desire to remain in a relationship with his child.

Key Points:

• Daniel is grieving the ‘story’ he imagined for his child and family.
• Dr. Delony stresses that biblical worldview calls for love, hospitality, and respect—even when disagreeing deeply.
• Both parent and child set boundaries; relationship continuity depends on mutual respect, not total agreement.
• The importance of grieving lost expectations, pausing for thoughtful responses (“you get a season”), and not making “forever” decisions in the moment.

Notable Quotes:

• “What is your biblical worldview say about being in relationship with people you disagree with?... You don't run away.” — Dr. John Delony (40:21)
• “You get to decide what respect, kindness, hospitality means... Your child gets to decide do I want to be in relationship with that with you?” — Dr. John Delony (45:16)
• “Every single parent on planet Earth creates a story the moment they hold their first kid. And it’s hard when our kid comes in and says, this story is different now.” — Dr. John Delony (50:08)
• “I’ve never heard a parent say ‘I wish I cut off the relationship sooner.’” — Dr. John Delony (54:07)

Dr. Delony’s Advice:

• Grieving is normal and necessary.
• Encourages patience, ongoing honest communication, and intentional relationship-building within mutual boundaries.
• Cautions against all-or-nothing thinking in both faith and family relationships.

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4. On Tension as a Doorway to Connection (Q&A with Kelly)

Timestamps: 57:33 – 61:39

Key Points:

• Dr. Delony unpacks the idea that "tension is the doorway to connection" in relationships.
• Avoiding tension increases future conflict; leaning into uncomfortable topics with honesty leads to real closeness.

Notable Quotes:

• “Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. The more you go around tension, the bigger it gets, and it eventually explodes.” — Dr. John Delony (60:30)
• “Tension is the doorway in. The thing you want to talk about but don’t...that’s the path to walk into.” — Dr. John Delony (58:14)

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Memorable Moments & Tone

Dr. Delony is candid and passionate, showing frustration over inaction or avoidance especially when it harms loved ones. He brings humor, firm truth-telling, and gentle compassion, often validating callers’ feelings even when pushing them toward tough choices. Strong emphasis is placed on action, boundaries, and responsible self-care.

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [02:33] — Sue’s honest assessment of her husband's behavior (“He knows I’ll figure it all out…”)
• [07:48] — "Your husband has effectively left you..."
• [11:16] — “You’re not asking for the moon…You’re asking for lunch.”
• [30:54] — “Going to war with your body…”
• [35:31] — “Practice healing…”
• [40:21] — “What does your biblical worldview say…”
• [54:07] — “I’ve never heard a parent say ‘I wish I had cut off the relationship sooner.’”
• [58:14] — “Tension is the doorway in…”

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Summary

This episode tackles hard family and relationship truths with Dr. Delony’s signature mix of empathy, realism, and candor. Listeners leave with a powerful reminder: healing, connection, and survival often demand difficult conversations and decisive action, not just hope or passivity. The cost of avoiding reality is far higher than the discomfort of facing it directly.

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For listeners dealing with similar struggles:

• Face hard truths—avoidance deepens the struggle.
• Set and defend clear boundaries for your own survival and well-being.
• Invite honesty and directness into all important relationships—even (especially) when it’s uncomfortable.
• Remember: “Tension is the doorway to connection.” Walk through it.

Transcript

[A]

This is an ad for BetterHelp. If you've ever said, I'm not in a crisis, I don't need therapy, I want you to reconsider. The time to take care of your mental health is before things fall apart. Talking to someone can help. Get [e-mail] Deloney and save 10%.

[B]

For the last year and a half, he's not been bringing in an income, so we've kind of blown through all our savings.

[A]

Why isn't he working?

[B]

His goals are just so high. He's looking for, like, the perfect solution. The job or the business that can finally, like, live out his dreams.

[A]

What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so glad that you're here. Pull up a seat. Whatever you happen to be doing, going for a walk, running through the airport, vacuuming the house, cleaning the car, whatever you're doing, I'm glad you're here. We're talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your marriages, your kids, anything you got going on. Pull up a seat and we'll figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on the show, I'd love to have you on. I don't answer long personal questions on social media, but I do answer them right here on the show. So click the link in the show notes and we will have you on. Let's go out to Vancouver, British Columbia, and talk to a girl named Sue. What's up, Sue?

[B]

Hi, Dr. DeLoney.

[A]

How we doing?

[C]

I'm. I'm hanging in there.

[A]

Hanging in there. Good. Well, I'm glad you called. Pull up a seat. What's up?

[B]

So, I've got a situation with my husband and, I guess my family. We're in a bit of a financial crisis. For the last year and a half, he's not been bringing in an income, and he just doesn't seem to have an urgency to helping solve this problem. So we've kind of blown through all our savings. Why in the last couple of months?

[A]

Why isn't he working for a year and a half?

[B]

I. I don't know. I feel like he.

[C]

He.

[A]

This is going to be a crazy request.

[C]

He has.

[A]

Hold on. This be a crazy request. Don't feel like it. Tell me. Tell me. Like, use the words. The story I've made up is. And then tell me what you really think, not what you feel. Tell me what you think is going on here.

[B]

I think two things.

[C]

I think

[B]

he knows that I will figure it all out and get food on the table and take care of all the financial problems. And I also think he has. His goals are just so high. He's looking for, like, the perfect solution to be the job or the business that he can finally, like, live out his dreams and be that success. He's just been trying to be.

[A]

Well, he hasn't been trying to be a success because success begins with grinding at low levels of positions where you have no skills and you have to figure it out. Right. That's how success happens.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he's not interested in that. It sounds like he's living his dream life, which is. Does he just sit around and play video games? Does he do nothing?

[C]

No, it's not.

[B]

It's just that he spends, like. I mean, he listens to podcast podcasts, he does his devotions. He spends time, like, researching and writing about what he wants to do or his business ideas, but there's no follow through.

[A]

Yeah. So he is actively avoiding. He's using his spiritual life and his podcast life and his journaling life. He needs to get his head out of his journal and get a job or three jobs. Here's what's crazy.

[C]

Tell him that.

[B]

She says I'm being selfish.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

How long have you all been married?

[B]

Almost seven years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's our. Both of us. It's our second marriage.

[A]

Okay. And when did. When did this. When did this start?

[C]

Now.

[A]

Did he get laid off?

[B]

He had a business with a friend and it went sour. But I, like, I feel like I gave him a lot of grace initially. Like, you need to work through this. But now it's. We are in dire straits.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm exhausted.

[A]

Yeah. So paint me a picture of your financial situation.

[B]

Well, our savings are all gone as of a few months ago.

[A]

And are you blowing through savings? Are you blowing through savings, keeping the lights on and the mortgage paid? Are you blowing through savings? Like.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is he buying new journals and things like that?

[B]

No, no, it is, you know, keeping the lights on, gas, groceries, paying the mortgage. But that savings is gone. I pay the credit cards every month, just enough to put the new bills on. The last few months, I've had to borrow money from family.

[A]

Oh, God. And he just still sitting at home.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I got to tell you, I have so little use for men like this. I get grieving the loss of a close friendship, grieving the loss of a business. Like, there's some psychology. Like, that's a. That's a big weight. I get that. And you don't grieve it by spending 18 months or two years sitting like crisscross applesauce in the middle of a field listening to podcasts. Like, you have to go to work. You gotta go. You gotta, you gotta start grinding it out again. Because if he had gone to work two weeks after his business imploded, he would already be the manager of whatever business. Like, he already would have found his, like a path towards something.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Most importantly, he would have found confidence again. He has. No, he. That's all gone now. But that, like, talking about him does you and I no good. Right. Because he's not here.

[B]

No, I. Yeah, but I felt desperate.

[A]

And does he know that you feel desperate?

[B]

He does.

[A]

So you've sat down with him and said, here's, here's our situation.

[D]

We're broke.

[C]

Yeah, we're broke.

[B]

I've said, like, I need him to get a job because I need to not spend my entire being worrying about food and like, shelter.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That I need my basic needs met without it all being on me.

[A]

And what does he say to that?

[B]

He thought I was a being selfish because he was doing the best that he could.

[A]

Well, I don't hate to say this, but the best he can do right now is not good enough. And I don't think he's being honest. This isn't the best he can do. Because I know too many dads who get up at 5am and drive a bus and then they go work a really crappy job and they swing home at dinner for 30 minutes with their kids and then they go back to a third job. Those men are doing the best they can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so my question for you is a scary question. What are you going to do now? Because you, You. You've run to the end of your. This roller coaster. It's out of track.

[C]

It is.

[A]

So you're going to put the house up for sale and move in with your family. What are you going to do? Here's the thing. Your husband has effectively left you. He's just. Hasn't moved out. He's just journaling about it. This isn't even about meeting emotional needs or sexual needs. Like, a lot of the calls on the show are, this is a guy that's watching his wife starve and he's like, yeah, I don't care. You're being selfish. I, I guess I, I want to shine a light here because, A, you're not crazy. B, I'm wondering if you're the last, especially six months, five months, four months as savings have dwindled to Nothing. And you're now playing a shell game of credit cards just to eat and keep the lights on. When we get in desperation mode, right, we get in desperate situations. We stop being able to see the big picture because we don't have the luxury of looking at the big picture because we're trying to survive today. Like, there's some great sociology on a poverty mindset versus somebody who has a wealth mindset. And sometimes it's as simple as if you've been worrying about how I'm going to get through today for long enough, you stop being able to consider you at 40. Right. Even when you start getting money, you blow through it. Because I just. I'm just worried about today, and then I'm. Tomorrow. I'll worry about tomorrow, but I don't have the luxury of thinking about next week or next year or two decades from now. And so I want to tell you, this is desperate, desperate times. And this man has left you. He just hasn't had the. He doesn't have the gumption to move out. And you can probably hear my frustration. I'm not angry. It's not my situation. But I'm pretty frustrated on your behalf because I have no use for men like this. But I don't. I don't. I can't tell you what to do now.

[D]

No, you're not crazy, is what I think.

[B]

No, I just. I think I knew that these are words that you would say.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I know, but I know it's hard to hear. Just on. On the car ride over to the studios this morning, I was talking to a mom who recently lost somebody precious to her, and she knew what I was going to say, but saying it was really hard to hear. And I know that's. You're in the same boat. Like, it's hard to hear that, but if you can find the space to just zoom out, not 30,000ft, 2,000ft, you're on an unsustainable trajectory. And this is not about YOLO and living our best life. And he doesn't meet my emotional. It's not that you have an active parasite in your house that gets mad at you for wanting to keep the lights on. That's madness. Husband 101 is make sure your wife has food and a. In a roof. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I guess that's always been my rule.

[A]

Well, it shouldn't be a rule. I mean, if that's how low the bar is, being married to you would be awesome. Because it would be pretty easy, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You're not Asking for the moon here. You're asking for lunch.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Do y' all own your home?

[B]

We have a mortgage.

[A]

Sure. Do you have any equity in your house?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we do.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

About 300.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you have family members you could move in with?

[B]

No, my family lives across the country.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you have such an amazing job that you can't move?

[B]

It's a pretty good job.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I don't want to put words in your mouth or in your.

[B]

We have two. Yeah. Like, he has two kids that live with us full time, and I have one that's still at home with us, too.

[A]

How old are they?

[B]

Mine is 20 and his are 16 and 17.

[A]

Okay. So you're 20 year old. It may be time for you and him to have a hard conversation. Are you and her to have a hard conversation?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's adult time and maybe they can start paying rent. And as for his 16 and 17 year old, have you adopted them?

[B]

No.

[A]

Are you, are you their stepmom?

[B]

I'm stepmom, yeah.

[A]

Okay. He needs to give you a plan in writing for how he's going to feed his kids.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I, I, I hate to, to, man, I sound like I, I lack compassion here. And I kind of. I do for him. I don't. For your marriage. And I'm compassionate for your marriage. I hate it for you, both of y'. All. I always say if, if somebody files for divorce the day you get those papers, you are no longer in a marriage. You are now in a business transaction. And you don't have divorce papers in hand, but you have a divorced spouse continuing to sit in your house. And I always. My rule number one when somebody gets married is get a joint checking account. Those days need to be over for you.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You've got to, you've got to begin to think, how am I going to be okay? Because the person you pledged your life to is not interested in whether you're okay or not. Am I being unfair?

[C]

No.

[B]

I like everything you're saying. I, I think I know from a logical place. Right. It's just. Yeah. And he's a nice guy.

[A]

You know what? He's not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because even, even jerks take care of their families.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's not nice to watch your spouse turn to ash because they're so exhausted and to blame them for getting dust on things. Right. That's not nice. I, I'm heartbroken for you. I'm sorry.

[B]

Thanks.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm even more mad because he's got Kids. He's got kids watching this play out. He's got kids that you're having to put food on the table. So if you don't mind me asking, what are you going to do?

[B]

I don't know. I. My part of me just wants to go back and plead with him again.

[D]

How many times have you done that to do something?

[B]

Well, a lot, you know, so let's. Let's just chalk that before the mortgage is due. It happens.

[A]

Let's chalk that up, too. That doesn't work. That plan doesn't work. We're going to stop doing the same thing, expecting different results. Yeah, I guess what. What I want you to spend time doing is asking yourself your or what Statement. And by the way, if the thought of getting divorced again, if the thought of breaking up again, if all of that madness that you remember still, like, clearly is. Is lodged in your body from last time, this happened a decade ago, and you're just like, I'm not doing that again, great, I'll support you. But I want you to free yourself from walking in every day and looking at him and wishing he would be different. He's not going to be. Okay, then it's a choice to add existential weight to an already unbearable weight situation. Right,

[C]

Right.

[A]

It's like walking into the weight room and, you know, the weights you're about to lift are about as your max, max, max, and you're already really sore and you're like, let's put some more weight on that bar. Like, don't do that to yourself. But you got to come up with your or, what line. Is it 30 days? Is it 60 days? Is it? I'm putting the house up for sale.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'm going to go rent us a place. I'm going to go rent me and my son a place or me and my daughter a place. And if you want to contribute financially to this new rental house, then you can, and I'll give you your 150 grand of equity in the house, and then I'm out. And if you want to move in, here's going to be my rules for moving in. But, I mean, y' all are in a dire situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In dire situations require decisive action. Sorry you're in this situation. Thanks for calling, Sue. I'm really grateful. This is a tough, tough, tough set of decisions you have ahead of you. Call anytime. If he wants to call, I'd love to talk to him. Love to talk to him. We come back, a woman asks how to relax and trust her parents. With her kids so she and her husband can enjoy their anniversary trip. Be right back. So I went into a local store the other day and I just wanted to buy a few things. And at checkout, here's what they wanted. They wanted my address, my phone number. They might as well have asked for my Social Security number, my fingerprints. They wanted all of this stuff from me and all I wanted was some paper plates and some cups and some gum. They wanted my soul. Every time you give out your cell number, your email address, or you buy something online, data brokers are grabbing your personal information and they're selling it to the highest bidder. This leaves you vulnerable to spam and to scams. This is a big part of why I use and recommend delete me. Your phone number, your home address, your family's information, where your kids go to school, or all of the stuff is just floating around online sitting on data broker sites. And you've never even heard of these data broker sites. Deleteme finds your personal information online and they remove it for you. Not just once. They keep monitoring for your information and they clean it up month after month. You can close the gap between what you think is private and what actually is. You can't build a peaceful life if parts of your life are being bought and sold online without your permission. Go to Joind. DeleteMe.com DeLoney and get 20% off an annual plan. That's join DeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, so I started with cozy earth towels. They're amazing. And then I moved on to the cozy Earth comforters in these big giant awesome blankets. And now right now, I'm wearing cozy earth socks. I have cozy earth gear in every nook and cranny of my house and on my bod y right. They are awesome. And recently I got a pair of cozy earths everywhere pants. I didn't need another pair of pants, but I got them. And like all other cozy Earth gear, they're amazing. I want to tell you about these Cozy Earth sheets. Listen, these are not normal sheets. They're made from viscose from bamboo. You know what that is? I don't, but I do know this. They're soft, they're breathable. And somehow they keep me cool without me feeling cold or too hot. They're amazing. They must have been made at Hogwarts. They're so great. Cozy Earth sheets help me sleep better. And here's the deal. Cozy earth gives you a hundred night sleep trial on all bedding and a 10 year warranty on everything. Else. So there's no risk filling your house with Cozy Earth gear. Try Cozy Earth for yourself. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney and you'll save up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozyearth.com DeLONEY you can use code Deloney and if you get a post purchase survey, tell Cozy Earth you heard about their amazing gear right here on this show. All right, let's go to Jackson M I s S I ssi PPI and talk to Jean. What's up, Jean?

[C]

Oh, not much. Just trying to raise babies and homestead and do all the things.

[A]

Oh, sweet.

[C]

So you're a trip for my husband.

[A]

You're a YouTuber, huh? You love the twos.

[C]

Well, I wouldn't say YouTuber, but I did recently start a TikTok, so.

[A]

Yes, you did. It's one of the new rules of homesteading. You have to have a social media account to document it.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Trying to do it all.

[A]

Oh, man. How long have you all been given the old homestead a run?

[C]

Well, I would say off and on since we got married. My husband has always been a country guy, you know, all that. He's, you know, had dogs, horses, all the things. And now, you know, we still have our dogs, our hunting dogs. And I'm getting into baking bread and doing honeybees and making soap and say,

[A]

are you making soaps?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Sweet.

[C]

Doing it all. But our children, one of our children has eczema, so using the goat's milk soap has worked wonders for her. So that's really why we do it. I don't really sell a lot of it, but it's more just as a hobby.

[A]

Very cool.

[C]

And gives me something to do, you know?

[A]

I love it, I love it, I love it. Okay, so how can I help? What's up?

[C]

So I'm planning a trip for my husband and I. We've been married this summer will be 10 years and congrats. Thank you. It's our. My long standing relationship.

[A]

Do you still like him?

[C]

I do. I like him a lot.

[A]

Does he still like you a lot?

[C]

I hope so. But last year, if you'd have asked me last year, I'd have said no. I don't like him very much right now. We've been through a very hard time last, last year and we really need to get away.

[A]

Awesome.

[C]

Both of us had to have emergency surgeries and it just kind of told us who was in our corner during that time.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But that's a call for another day.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Because Whenever I wrote up my question and sent it in, I read it to my husband on Monday. He was like, you're adding too much information for this question, so you need to focus just on keeping, you know, doing with the children.

[A]

All right.

[C]

But anyways, long story short, my husband and I, we've been married for 10 years this summer, and I want to plan a trip. I've already got the room booked. I've got it all written out. I've got our places to eat all written down. I'm very organized when it comes to that. My problem is, is my parents. This is the first time we've left our children in six years for more than a night.

[A]

Is that because you're an anxious person?

[C]

Yes and no.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Because I lost her adopted child, and I had a very traumatic childhood up until the time I was adopted. And so when I was writing this out, I told myself I wasn't going to cry. You know, I had to write everything down. I've got, like, three pages in my notebook in front of me with a pen so I can write down what you have to say.

[B]

Awesome.

[C]

But my children are the ages that I were. I was when my wife turned upside down.

[A]

Okay. How old are you?

[C]

So I feel six and three.

[A]

Okay. Six and three. Okay. You want him to stay with your parents?

[C]

Yes, sir. Because my. My husband's family, they work or live out of state, and my. My family lives 20 minutes down the road, and we try to do as much as possible with them. And my. My parents are great when it comes to, you know, I know my kids are going to be safe. I know my kids are going to be taken care of. It's not that at all, but there are some boundaries that are put in place.

[A]

Like what?

[C]

That every. Okay, so.

[A]

And I want you to hear what I'm doing because I want you to begin practicing this with yourself. Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You have a. You have a thing you need to do, and you wrap that thing in so many layers of stories and emotions, and it makes the next thing you need to do really hard. It's like. It's like you need to walk over 20ft from you, and you put on your muck boots and you keep stepping in deeper and deeper mud, which makes just that, 20ft. So I'm interrupting you on purpose because I want to get to the action step. Okay. Because you've got so many layers around each one of these actions. So what are the boundaries you've put in place that your parents just throw away or ignore and run right through.

[C]

So two of them are just things that just daily practices that we try to do at home that I try to keep up there. And one of them is with food. You know, we try not to do a lot of sugary sweets.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

You try to cut out the food dye. And I have learned that when they go to the grandparents, that's not always the case. You know, they go to grandparents house. They only go over there like maybe once a week. So I can deal with that when they come back home. You know, one of our children has eczema and it is food related. And I'm like, I'll just give her, you know, oatmeal bath, do all the extra things if she has a flare up.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

You know, I'll, I won't die on that heel of the food, you know. The other one is the tablet time and what they're watching on the tablet. And I've given a list of like mom approved stuff. And it's been like, oh, you know, they just click from one video to the other and I don't want to sit there and, you know, sit on, sit beside them while they're on the tablet and monitor what they're doing.

[A]

Great.

[C]

And I'm like, well, that's part of what I'm asking you to do because you can't just walk away if they're just click, click, clicking. Or download this app, you know, PBS kids or whatever, and don't put them on YouTube, you know, so if you,

[A]

if you write this stuff out, and by the way, whether it's with family or with friends, my wife leaves a pretty detailed list.

[C]

Right. And I do that too with most of the people.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But this is where it comes to. So like, and the last one is like, I'm gonna die. The last one is the hill I'm dying on. You know, that is a major boundary for me. And whenever I mention the last one, which I'll get to in just a second, and even with the other ones. Oh, you're just being too sensitive. You're, you know, you're thinking too much.

[A]

Okay, so what's the third thing? What' the third thing?

[C]

The third thing is. All right, so because of things that's happened to me in the past, I'm very protective when it comes to my children and who they're around and all of that. And my parents are not bringing people over that they're not supposed to or anything like that. So it's not that at all. It's just a few times that I've been over there and they've had all the grandkids. So I have two little girls and the rest are boys. The boys very comfortable with themselves and they will strip down to their underwear and run around the house like little boys do. And that bothers me.

[A]

Okay?

[C]

Mostly because if we're comfortable with that now because they're little and it's innocent and there's nothing wrong with it, you know, because they're, they're cousins and they're just children. If we're comfortable with it now, when they're little, when they're older, we'll still be comfortable with it. So I want to draw the line.

[A]

That's not a real, that's not a real leap, okay? Like, like you will find I've spent my career sitting with people who were sexually abused, okay? And so I am, I'm insane about it with my own kids. And to assume that a three year old or a four year old little boy running around his underwear is going to turn into a predator, that's not a, that's not an honest leap that you taking.

[C]

Feel that like I don't, like, I don't look at the kids and be like, oh, you're trouble, you know, but it's in my head and my nervous system is like, okay. I experience things that I shouldn't, I should not have at that moment. I know I'm overreacting, but I don't know how to tell my body to be like, okay, you need to calm down. Yeah, you know, I don't know how to do that. And then whenever I bring it up and I try to talk through it with my mother because I don't talk about this stuff with my dad, but when I talk about it with my mom, it's. Well, you know, you're overthinking it. You're overreacting. This is, you know, you know, you're just, you're just putting too much emotion and too much thought into this. But I'm like, these are my children and I have to protect them. And you know, that's the way that I look at it. And I'm like, I know it's not normal and I know it's not okay. And I feel it. So, like, I feel it down in my chest that I want my kids to have a good time when they go over there and enjoy the cousins and enjoy being with my mom, but I'm having to leave them for four days. Is she just going to abandon every, every expectation, every boundary that I put in place and Just let the kids just run buck wild and whenever I get home have to do damage control.

[A]

Well, there's damage control because they went to grandma's house and had a bunch of junk food. I'm okay with that. That's what grandmas are for.

[C]

I can deal with that one. Right. I can handle that one.

[A]

My, one of my kids has a severe peanut allergy. I don't play with that.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And so if they were to go to my parents or my in laws and by the way, this would never happen. So if they were, and they were like, oh, it's just peanut butter, get over yourself. I can't because you're gonna kill my kid. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so if your kid gets, has food related eczema stuff's got allergies to certain foods, if I'm gonna send my kid to someplace that has a health related concern. And by the way, I don't hear you saying this as some sort of internety health concern. Right. Like if he has, if your kids have nine skittles that they're gonna suddenly. I don't hear that at all. Like if my kid eats this kind of food, then they have a skin rash breakout.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Please don't give them this food. If the person says, oh, you're being ridiculous, then you can't see, I can't leave my kids there.

[C]

Right, right.

[A]

That's easy. And, and for you it's an either or when it comes to and, and I don't want to put things out into the world, but I, I, I want to be honest with you. Cousins, extended family are prime abusers. So you're not crazy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And going to war with your body when you say things like, I know this is irrational, I know this is dumb. It's not. You've been there, you experienced it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What I'm, what I, what I can't get to on this call is and I want you to dig into it either way, it's going to be hard.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Which hard do you want to choose? Do you want to sit down and say when, when we've gone through this list, my parents are, are going to completely dismiss the things that we write down and give them a piece of paper that say here's, here's what, here's what we're asking for.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And by the way, I'm gonna, this is gonna sound cruel. They get to do that. It's their house, it's their time.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And then you can say, I can never go on a trip with my husband because fill in the blank and, or I'm not going to go on this trip and I'm going to be really sad that I don't have two parents who are willing to love my kids in a way and respect me and my husband.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Be sad about it. Or they're going to be fine over here. Of course it's appropriate that kids, 6 year old girls don't change with boys. Of course. And if they think that's weird, then my kids are not going over there.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

But if you think, you know what they're going to give them Skittles and Twizzlers, but they're, they're going to honor this stuff. They're not going to have little boys running around being inappropriate.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the kids are going to change. Like, if you think that's going to be true, then feel uncomfortable. And when you feel uncomfortable, have a code word with your husband that says, like, ah, I'm feeling anxious. Ask your mom to text pictures of them a couple times a day.

[C]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[A]

But either path is going to be uncomfortable.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Which path do you want to take?

[C]

I'd like for them to have that relationship with my family because, you know, I no longer have a relationship with my biological family.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And then my, my brothers and my sisters, we're all biologically, you know, we were all adopted together. And I'm extremely grateful for the sacrifices. This is where the other emotions come in that my husband was like, you're adding too much into it. You know, just leave it as, just, how do you get over being anxious leaving the kids? And this is the reason I'm, I'm really grateful for the sacrifices that my, when I say my parents, my adoptive parents

[B]

gave to us.

[C]

Like, I'm extremely grateful for that. And I don't want, you know, this is out there in the world and I don't want my mom to hear this and think that I've, I'm ungrateful or I think that she's putting my children in terrible situations because that's not it at all. But when I bring these concerns to her and I say, look, I'm feeling this away, or I don't like that y', all, you know, the, you know, the boys are just being boys and they're, they're boys. You know, my kids have been raised with these little boys their entire life. They spent every day together for several years. You know, my oldest one was basically like a twin with the other cousin. They're six weeks apart, inseparable, you know.

[A]

Okay, so it sounds like this is inside of you. Is that.

[C]

How do I. How do I fix that?

[A]

You don't fix it. You don't fix it. You work. You walk right through it. You're not broken.

[C]

I feel very broken.

[A]

You're not. Your body's doing what it should. It's trying to keep you safe. It's been down this road before.

[C]

Yes. I told my husband yesterday. I was like, I feel like I want to just light myself on fire than to deal with this because it would just be easier just to cancel the whole trip altogether.

[D]

It.

[C]

I don't just take them with us.

[A]

I. Maybe, but are you gonna bubble wrap them forever? Or more importantly, you're gonna bubble wrap yourself forever? And is there a night between now and that trip that y' all can spend one night apart and begin to practice?

[C]

Well, we do that not very often because my. My mom wants the kids when it fits into her schedule. And my husband's family, they work full time, but we. We did on Sunday. She had both of my girls, they went and spent all day Sunday and spent the night. And then because the boy cousins came over and they spent all day together. So it's kind of like a trial run of having.

[A]

How'd it go?

[C]

All four kids, they had a blast.

[A]

Okay, so you get to make a choice. Do you want to keep going to war with your body, or do you want to have a season where I'm going to practice healing. And healing will not mean that what happened to you as a kid didn't happen. And healing will not mean that you and your parents, your adoptive parents, aren't going to not see eye to eye on everything. Healing means I can feel this way and I can go do the next right thing. I'm going to take ownership of my life, the good stuff, the bad stuff, the scary stuff. But I refuse to stay a victim inside of this thing forever. And healing is. Yes, terrible things happen to me as a kid. And healing is there are good people in the world. And healing is things could go wrong again. And healing is, I've done my due diligence. And in this situation, they probably won't. And probably is important because they might. That's the world. But probably not. And if I feel good about the probably not, then I'm going to make the next right move for me and my husband. And ask yourself this, by the way, you have this big idea about a trip, this big idea about us getting away. Do you want to get away with him for four days? Is your marriage in a place that y' all want to go, spend time together for four days. Is that going to be good for y'?

[D]

All?

[A]

Y' all gonna have fun. Y' all gonna look at each other in the eyes. Y' all gonna hold hands. Y' all gonna laugh. Y' all gonna make out, make sweet, sweet, sweet. No kid around. Love all. I'm just being ridiculous, but do you want to do that? Is there some anxiousness about what if this trip doesn't go well? Write this stuff down in your lists. Be honest with yourself and come to a decision. I'm going to stay at home from this trip or I'm going to feel uncomfortable. I've done all my due diligence. The kids are going to be fine. And the anxiousness is inside of me. And so I'm going to walk right through the middle of it. That's your choice. Both paths are going to be hard. I want to choose the path that's going to lead me to where I want to be. And where I want to be one day is I feel anxious about it. I make sure I cover all the variables I can, and then I want my kids to go have the time of their life with friends, with family, and safe situations. And safe situations don't mean 100%. They never do. They never do. Thanks for the call. I'll be rooting for you whatever you decide to do. But personally, I hope you go on the trip. We come back, a man asks how to keep a relationship with his transgender son despite his personal beliefs. Be right back. I love talking about Helix Mattresses. I have two people in my family who are getting married this summer. What did they ask me for? Helix mattresses. Why? Because my whole family sleeps on them and we won't shut up about how great they are because Helix mattresses rule. They don't just build one mattress for every human being on the planet. They build a number of different mattresses just for you. Whether you're a side sleeper, a back sleeper, a hot sleeper, they build mattresses for everybody. Here's what I want you to do. Get online and take the Helix Sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes. And Helix will match you with just the right mattress for the way you sleep. No guessworks. This is one of those small decisions that can change how you show up every single day. Go to helixsleep.com DeLoney and get 20 off site wide during their summer savings event. That's 20 off at helixsleep.com DeLoney and listen, this discount is only for my audience with Helix. Better Sleep starts right now. All right. Hey, take two seconds and like and share and subscribe and all those things. It matters. You taking a few seconds doesn't cost anything just to click on the things matters. Thank you so much. Let's go out to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, get some cheese and talk to Daniel. Hey, Daniel. What's up, brother?

[D]

Hey, Dr. John. How are you?

[A]

I'm good. My man. What are you up. I'm sorry, what are you up to? I didn't even finish that sentence. That was weird. What's up?

[D]

Well, I guess it. It starts with about two months ago, my son came out to me as transge.

[A]

Okay. How old your son?

[D]

And 18.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

And I want to know how to be able to keep a relationship with him despite my biblical worldview.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

And how that fits in.

[A]

What is your biblical worldview say about being in relationship with somebody you disagree with?

[D]

Well, I. I still love him.

[A]

That's not what I asked. That's not what I asked.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

What is your biblical worldview say about being in relationship with people you disagree with?

[D]

You. You don't run away.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

You face it head on.

[A]

And what does facing it head on mean?

[D]

It means still enjoying quality time with him and mutual respect, despite our disagreements.

[A]

That's what my biblical worldview says. And you and I both know that if you have a child that you disagree with and who's living a life that you disagree with and you choose hospitality and respect and love and staying in relationship with. And by the way, all relationships come with boundaries. That's not a free for all. You know that that's going to cost you certain people you interact with. That's going to cost you looks. It's going to cost you. Right. It's going to cost you. Because not everybody holds your same worldview. Right.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Did your child give you a new name they want to go by?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So having had this conversation with multiple parents over the years, I'll tell you what I've told everybody and that I've seen it navigate well. Okay.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Did your child say that they've been thinking about this for a long time and it's been weighing on them, etc. Etc.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

Okay. You haven't been thinking about this for a long time. You're 60 days out. Right.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Were you pretty caught off guard by the conversation?

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

He.

[D]

He basically had a midnight confession because he couldn't hold on to it any longer.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah, he told me at midnight.

[A]

Okay. I want to first honor you for being a safe place for Your child. Okay.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

That means you're doing dad. Well,

[D]

he says I am.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Actually.

[A]

So I want to honor you in that. Okay. For an 18 year old to come out and say that to their dad, they're, they're risking I might not ever be able to have Thanksgiving dinner with my family again. I may be getting cut off forever. And so I want, I want you to acknowledge like that your child trusted you enough. And that's a pretty cool thing.

[D]

Yeah, I've been, I've been learning that.

[A]

Okay, so that's number one. Number two, I've looked at countless 18 to 25 year olds and said, hey, your parents get a minute. If you walk in this door and decide you're a different gender and a different name and a different whatever,

[D]

your

[A]

parents had a picture that every parent has when they have a child. And it includes Thanksgiving dinners. Thirty years from now, it includes Christmases. Thirty years from now, it includes hunting and fishing trips or bowling trips or art projects or whatever. And you, 18 to 25 year old, just change that. They get a minute. They get to mess up and say the wrong things. If they're doing it out of love and respect.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

They get to really struggle with the name they gave their kid. Suddenly not being allowed to be uttered in their own home anymore. That's hard. Okay, so I'll tell you, dad, you get a minute and a minute is not a minute, it's a season.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

And then you get to decide what you think respect, kindness, hospitality means. Does that mean I'm, I will go along with the new name you want me to, to call you? Does that mean I'm going to refer to you as my daughter or as my, I'm going to keep calling you son because that's what you will always be like. You get to decide those things and then your child gets to decide do I want to be in relationship with that with you?

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's going to come down to, hopefully, let me put it this way, in this particular conversation over the last, especially 10 years, it gets all or nothing real, real quick. And I just reject that on its face because no relationship on planet earth is all or nothing. Right?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

None, zero. Not with spouses, not with kids, not with pets, not with any anything. There is no all or nothing relationship.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And 18 to 25 year or 18 year olds, their frontal loes aren't fully developed yet. Right. So that can be a hard thing for them to stomach.

[D]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

So walk me through, walk all of us through what's the last 60 days been like for you

[D]

is just kind of start from the beginning.

[A]

No, no, no. I. I'm just interested in. In like your. Your child's not on the phone and so it's gonna sound crazy. I'm less interested in their story. I'm interested in yours.

[D]

Okay. Well, I. I will say he. He did. When he came out, he was like, this is how it's gonna be. And I think the wisest thing I did is not say too much.

[A]

Excellent.

[D]

Because again, it was. He dropped the bomb on me. So. And I've been praying every single day because I don't know what to do.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

And I didn't even tell a single person for two weeks. I do have my friend and his wife who've been very supportive. They have helped me a lot. Just someone to talk to. We have not told my family yet, so you're like the fourth person I've told. So.

[A]

Just me and you and a couple million people, dude, we're good.

[C]

Right?

[D]

You know, I knew what I was getting into and I was okay with that. It's got to happen anyway, so. But yeah, I. You know when it's like a loss, I feel like when I held him in my arms and he was born.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

All of that's gone. It's. It's like this isn't how it's supposed to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

You're supposed to. I'll raise you up as well as I can. You meet a nice girl, you get married and have some babies. It's like I don't even. I don't even know if I'm gonna get grandkids.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And I have one child.

[A]

Okay. And do you hear you. What. What you're experiencing is what I was. You just. You just put skin and bone on what I was saying earlier, which is you had a. You. You're holding this baby and kids don't understand this. I didn't understand this until I.

[C]

My.

[A]

My first kid. It's amazing how you hold this kid and a boom, a 60 year story shoots out from you. And. And by the way, our stories as parents, that's not fair to the kids. But it happens. It just isn't. Is Right.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And. You're allowed to grieve that like crazy.

[D]

Yeah. That's a good way of putting it. That's. That's what I've been doing for the last two months.

[A]

And I don't want you to hold on to this particular story as forever either.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Because it's easy to go well Now I'm never gonna have grandkids. And now my family lineage stops with. With me. I'm it. I'm the last. I'm the last male with my name. Like all those stories now that are going to shoot out from you, those are as made up and fragile as the one that you had when you first held your son.

[D]

That's not nice to hear.

[A]

I know, I know, I know. But here's the thing. It's truthful.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Every single parent on planet Earth creates a story the moment they. They hold their first kid.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's hard when our kid comes in and says, this story is different now. And by the way, to a much lesser degree than what you're experiencing. It's different when you instantly think, my kid's going to become a doctor. My kid's going to change the world. My kid's going to be a star ath. Like, parents just come up with stories. It just happens.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And then your kid says, I'm not going to law school. I'm going to. To puppetry camp. I'm not going to like. Right. And then you're. You get frustrated at your kid, but what you're really doing is you're grieving the story. And also, if you're a good parent, you begin projecting out, life's going to be really hard for you,

[D]

You know?

[A]

And again, taking off the transgender conversation. If you think, I want my kid to be a physician so that they don't have to worry about money like I did growing up, and then they tell you, hey, I want to go be a forest Ranger and make 41,000 bucks a year, if you're a parent and you're like, no, I want to tell all my friends that my kid's a doctor, well, then you're a jerk. But if you think, oh, I wanted you to have a $300,000 salary, now you can have a 41, your life's going to be hard. You're. Of course you're going to grieve that for your kid. And then we have a choice. Do I want to then walk alongside you and say, okay, then you're going to be the best freaking forest ranger that ever lived. You're going to honor that job. You're going to work hard. I'm going to teach you how to budget, man. Because things are going to be tight. Maybe I'm going to make a little bit of extra money on the side so that I can pitch into the college fund for your kid. Right. So you start saying, okay, how Am I going to walk alongside you and for you, your kid comes out and says, I'm changing genders, I'm changing names. You automatically know your life's going to be hard. And then you also realize, oh, your life has been really hard and you've kept it all inside your chest. I'm sorry you had to do that alone. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But I, I. You get to, you get to. Let me say it like this. You get to determine the boundaries you want to place on this relationship.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

And then your kid gets to decide that they want to be in relationship with you. And by the way, I would, I would refrain from making forever statements. I would say, for the next 30 days, I'm gonna really wrestle with the name change because I gave you this name, and it's hard for you to come back and say, nope, here's my new one. It's hard. It's hard when I've bought you jeans and T shirts for every Christmas for the last whatever. And now you want me to buy you a dress. Like, that's hard for me. And that's you not keeping secrets. That's you being honest in this conversation,

[D]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

And honesty and giving somebody a path to relationship with you, I think that's noble and that's good. They get to decide whether they walk it or not.

[D]

I, I think I've kind of been doing that without really thinking, you know, without having that in my mind. I think that's how I've been going about it.

[A]

I would, after having this conversation with so many parents over the years, I'd almost guarantee it because you were safe enough for your son to come talk to. But it sounds like you're walking alongside an 18 year old making some big life choices, some big announcements, as well as you possibly could. And e, Even the, The parents I've met with over the years that are celebrating their kids coming out as transgender, they still, they still weep because the picture is different now. They still grieve because I had this thing, I got to change my picture.

[D]

Now,

[A]

even if we're celebrating and throwing a party, it's still, it's still a big shift and big change. But it sounds like you and your child are handling this about as good as you can. And so you get to decide what biblical worldview means to you. You get to decide what action steps I'm going to take, and you get to decide the boundaries of what we're going to, What I'm going to allow in my house. And then your kid gets to decide whether we're in on that. I will tell you, I've never heard a parent in all my years of sitting with teenagers and with young adults and their families, I've never heard a parent say, I wish I had cut off the relationship sooner. I have heard over and over again, I would do anything to have that first conversation back. I've heard that over and over again. And it sounds like you chose I'm just gonna be quiet and listen. Which is always the best approach for any big announcements from kids, especially one as challenging as I want to change my name and my gender. And here's my rules for being my parent now. Sounds like you handle it perfectly. Call anytime as you head into this. Sounds like you're doing a pretty, pretty great job. And for all parents experiencing this, you get a minute. You get a minute. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. I'm excited to tell you about a brand new sponsor on the Dr. John DeLoney Show, Capstone Wellness. I've spent the vast majority of my career working with teenagers and young adults and their families. I know from personal experience how hard it is to find help and care for a teenager or young adult can be a nightmare. If you're a parent and your teenage or young adult son, age 14 to 28 is struggling with trauma, addiction, mental health challenges or other destructive behaviors and you're running out of options, I want you to consider residential treatment care. Capstone Treatment center is a residential treatment program for young men. In this live in therapeutic setting, your son can fully step away from the chaos of the world for a few months or longer than and into a structured environment with trained licensed clinicians. This is daily intensive work that has the power to transform your son's life and your family's life. And listen, I know the folks at Capstone. It is Christ centered but they care for all types of people in all walks of life. If somebody close to me had a son who needed that level of help or if my own son needed this level of help, Capstone would be my very first call. Residential treatment is a very serious investment in money, time and energy because the level of care is completely different than anything you've ever seen or experienced. Financial aid and other support is available. Go to capstonewellness.com DeLoney to learn more. That's capstonewellness.comDeloney all right, we're back. Kelly, what's up?

[E]

All right, so I have a question about the Together app and this is one that I haven't. This is a question for Me too. Because I'm not really clear on what you. What's meant by this.

[A]

I'm always very clear, Kelly.

[E]

Oh, yeah, Clear as mud.

[A]

That's you as a what?

[E]

Mud.

[A]

Oh, I thought you said a bud. And I was like, dude, don't bring your weed smoking stuff in here.

[E]

It's not what I said. That's not the saying. Nobody says that.

[A]

Clear as bud.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When you get high, that's what you say. You just don't remember. Okay, go ahead.

[E]

Anywho, all right. You say tension is the door to connection.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

What does that mean? In. In. In the sense of, like a marriage.

[A]

Yeah. So tension is the door to connection. That is. That's not only. I know. I'm restating the. I'm restating it. You're such. God. The worst tension is the doorway. Not only applies to marriage as it applies to relationships with kids, your boss, yourself, your body, exercise, anything. The thing that feels hard. Can I give you a sideways example?

[E]

Please.

[A]

I'm going to be clear as mud. Yes. I was backstage at an event that I was speaking at that jocko, the Navy SEAL was also speaking at, and we're somehow we got to talking about pull ups as one does as well as. As two dudes do. And I said something along the line. This is probably six years ago now. I said, I can't do that many pull ups. And in very jocko way, he said, you can do one. And I was like, oh, yeah. And it started with doing one. And I had this tension that was, I can't do that thing. I can't do 10 pull ups. I can't do 20 pull ups. Whatever. You can do one. And so I literally got home from that trip and I went down to my basement gym and I just did one. And then the next day I did one. And the next day after that I did two. And it was. It was a. The tension, like me going around it with a story that I can't do. That thing was not the solution there to getting stronger, to navigating that problem. It was going right through it. And so in your marriage, tension is the doorway. I can't talk to him about that. He never. She always. That is the place is the path to walk directly into. And that's why, like, sitting down and saying, I've made up a story that you will never help me with the laundry, because you think it. You're beneath. You're above it. You think this is a beneath you task. You think this is not your quote unquote, your job in the house. The story I've made up is we don't have as much sex as I would like to have because you don't think I'm attractive. You don't like that. Tension is. It puts everything on the table, and that's the path towards bringing people together. The more you avoid the tension, the more. Let me put it this way. Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. The more you go around tension, the more tense it gets, the bigger the tension gets, and it eventually explodes. And so tensions. The doorway in the Together app, sometimes the thing that pops up is write a note and leave it on your spouse's pillow about two or three things you're grateful for. I'm not doing that. They're not going to read it. They will roll their eyes. I don't even have three things I could say. Boom, there's attention. I'm going to walk right through it. I'm going to put the note down, and that's where we're going to find connection. And so that's what I mean by that. Is that clear as mud for you?

[E]

That was clear as mud.

[A]

So tension is our doorway. Kelly, you're mean to me. The story I'm telling myself is it's because I'm handsome and really smart, and you just feel like less than when you're around me. And that makes me feel sad.

[E]

Yeah, that's the reason.

[A]

See? Tension gone.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Just love you guys, but. Well, that was a good noise.