My Husband’s Affair Is Over. . . But He Still Talks to Her

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show Episode: "My Husband’s Affair Is Over. . . But He Still Talks to Her"
Release Date: April 9, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney addresses complex relationship challenges through real-life caller scenarios. The primary focus is on infidelity, trust issues, and the emotional turmoil that follows. Two main callers, Michelle from Corpus Christi and Lawrence (also referred to as Jason) from Nevada, share their personal struggles, seeking guidance on rebuilding their relationships amidst betrayal and breakdown.

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Caller 1: Michelle from Corpus Christi

Issue:
Michelle confronts Dr. DeLoney about her husband’s affair with a fellow Little League baseball coach. Despite the affair ending, her husband continues to interact with his former partner within the same team environment. This ongoing connection exacerbates her emotional distress and complicates their attempts to reconcile.

Key Points:

• Affair Discovery and Aftermath:
  Michelle discovered her husband’s affair with another team coach, leading to the end of their marriage. However, her husband remains involved with the woman, continuing to coach together and maintaining minimal communication.

• Loss of Friendship:
  The affair not only destroyed her marriage but also severed a longstanding friendship within their social circle, adding another layer of emotional pain.

• Emotional Struggle:
  Michelle grapples with her husband’s lack of remorse and ongoing interactions with his former mistress, feeling embarrassed and belittled by his actions.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney at [00:12]:
  “Your husband is an absolute embarrassment to husbands everywhere.”

• Michelle at [02:05]:
  “We actually had a friendship outside of this team... it was constant. So not only did we lose a friendship, but we also have this issue.”

• Dr. John DeLoney at [05:01]:
  “You're worth more than that. I'm just embarrassed, man. I would get on the phone with somebody who's a trusted professional asap.”

Insights and Advice:

• Recognition of Pain:
  Dr. DeLoney validates Michelle’s feelings, emphasizing that her emotions are justified and not a sign of insanity.

• Encouragement to Seek Professional Help:
  He advises Michelle to consult with a local counselor to navigate her grief and rebuild her sense of self.

• Acceptance of Reality:
  Dr. DeLoney underscores the importance of accepting that her husband may no longer value the marriage, encouraging her to focus on her own healing and future.

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Caller 2: Lawrence (Jason) from Nevada

Issue:
Lawrence shares his experience with his wife filing for divorce after discovering his secretive behavior related to pornography consumption. Despite efforts in couples counseling, the trust has deteriorated, leading to legal proceedings and the dissolution of their marriage.

Key Points:

• Marriage Breakdown:
  After a swift three-year relationship culminating in a seven-month marriage, Lawrence's wife seeks a divorce following his hidden pornography use, which she discovered through financial tracking.

• Admission of Vulnerability Issues:
  Lawrence admits to struggling with vulnerability stemming from past trauma, including the loss of his father in fifth grade, leading to defensive and non-transparent behavior in his marriage.

• Therapeutic Efforts:
  Despite attending counseling and attempting self-improvement, Lawrence’s wife remains resolute in her decision to divorce, leading him to seek further advice.

Notable Quotes:

• Lawrence at [32:05]:
  “No, it wasn't interactive. It was only fans, but it was, I was strictly paying for videos and subscriptions.”

• Dr. John DeLoney at [28:28]:
  “See how the best thing I can tell you, man, is keep seeing a counselor. But also put yourself in a position where you can begin to act differently in a way that you learn to trust you.”

• Dr. John DeLoney at [46:40]:
  “Big boy and big girl decisions come with big boy and big girl choices and consequences, period.”

Insights and Advice:

• Acceptance of the Situation:
  Dr. DeLoney encourages Lawrence to acknowledge that the marriage may indeed be over and to begin the process of grieving and self-healing.

• Focus on Self-Improvement:
  Emphasizing the importance of personal growth, Dr. DeLoney advises Lawrence to continue with therapy and work on his vulnerabilities to rebuild trust in future relationships.

• Healthy Closure:
  He suggests that instead of resorting to harmful actions, Lawrence should seek professional support to navigate the emotional aftermath and focus on creating a stable environment for his children.

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Key Takeaways

1. Validity of Emotions:
   Both callers express deep emotional pain stemming from betrayal and the breakdown of relationships. Dr. DeLoney emphasizes that their feelings are valid and should be acknowledged.

2. Importance of Professional Help:
   Seeking therapy or counseling is presented as a pivotal step in healing and navigating complex emotional landscapes following infidelity or marital issues.

3. Self-Acceptance and Growth:
   The episode underscores the necessity of self-reflection and personal growth in overcoming past traumas and building healthier future relationships.

4. Acceptance of Reality:
   Dr. DeLoney advises listeners to accept the current reality of their situations, even when it’s painful, as a crucial step towards moving forward.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Dr. John DeLoney provides compassionate and straightforward advice to callers grappling with the aftermath of marital infidelity and breakdowns. By validating their experiences and guiding them towards professional support and self-improvement, the show offers a path toward healing and personal growth amidst challenging relationship dynamics.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So she's a Little League coach.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he's a coach.

[Michelle]

And he's the coach on the same team. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they had an affair and you caught him.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he's still coaching.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your husband is absolute embarrassment to husbands everywhere. If this was a Hallmark movie, the only way to make this right is for you to call the other husband and be like, hey, what's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? This is jon with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. And for more than 20 years, I've been sitting with hurting people who. And that includes all of us trying to do life like, just do the next right thing and the wheels fall off. Whether it's in our marriages, our mental and emotional health, whether that is in our workplace. Wherever you find challenge, I'll show up and sit with you. And man, it's one of my life's greatest honors to sit with hurting people trying to figure out, hey, what's the next right move? Hey, I think I see a light over that hill. What if we headed that way? If you would like me to sit with you and just figure out what's the next right, right decision, give me a buzz 1 844-693-3291 or you can go to john deloney.com ask a. All right, let's go back to Texas and talk to Michelle in Corpus Christi. What's up, Michelle?

[Michelle]

Hi, Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How are you?

[Michelle]

I'm doing good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. Good, good, good. What's up? How can I help?

[Michelle]

So my question is, how do I cope with when my husband wants to remain on the same team as the woman that was. He was involved with an affair? So what? Basically. Yeah, I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What team?

[Michelle]

It's a Little league baseball team.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

God help us. We're doomed. As a culture, we're doomed.

[Michelle]

I know. Unfortunately, they're both the coaches for this team. And. Yeah, it's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Was he with another man?

[Michelle]

No, no, no. He. It was a woman.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So she's a Little League coach.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he's a coach.

[Michelle]

And he's the coach on the same team. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they had an affair and you caught him.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he's still coaching.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Michelle, I know you're in Corpus Christi. They would never find his body if you took it far enough out in the bay.

[Michelle]

I've considered it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you have. Don't do that.

[Michelle]

No, I wouldn't. So as ridiculous as it sounds, this is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is ridiculous at a level that it's even ridiculous for my show. And you can just look at the thumbnails on YouTube and this show gets ridiculous.

[Michelle]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is insanity.

[Michelle]

It is insanity. And that's where I'm struggling with. Because, well, to add, you know, more sprinkles on top of this dessert, the husband is also aware of the affair, and her husband, so he's agreed to stay on this team for this last season as well. So it's, It's. So basically on top of that, we actually had a friendship outside of this team. Like, we had three or four years. We've already been friends with this couple in a group of couples, and so we hung out with them outside the baseball field, you know, on, you know, personal lives and everything. And it was constant. So not only did we have that we. We lost a friendship, but we also have this issue.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on, hold on. It's not an issue. You lost your marriage. Your husband's. Your husband is absolute embarrassment to husbands everywhere. An absolute embarrassment.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He blew up his marriage, and he is going to rub it in publicly. That's, that's astonishing to me, the fact that he has all of his teeth from the other husband. If this was a Hallmark movie. The only way to make this right is for you to call the other husband and be like, hey, what's up? Like, what are y'all? Like, I can't even wrap my head around this.

[Michelle]

Yeah, I know, John. It's been tough. I can say that. My husband did chess. Up to everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He. It. He got caught.

[Michelle]

Yeah, he got caught.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's no. He gets no gold stars here. None. Zero gold stars. He's an embarrassment to men.

[Michelle]

Wow. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

An absolute embarrassment to married men, to unmarried Mateo. All men. The cowardice to take his. The cowardice and shame it takes not to cheat on your wife. It happens. I've got. I, I, I will sit with you. Okay. But to rub your nose in it. You sit up in the stands while me and her share a dugout, and we're going to bring our kids around so that they get to see this, too.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And not having the courage just to leave you, as crazy as that sounds coming from me, it's just. This is just. It's embarrassing. I'm sorry you have to deal with it.

[Michelle]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely embarrassing. So, look, can I say this? You're not crazy, because I guarantee you, we with some. Okay, we have a psychology for when somebody stabs us in the back, right? Like somebody that is like the snake in the grass at work that takes your job. Like, it hurts. And we get mad and angry. And all that. But we, we, we intellectually understand that. Most of us don't have a psychology for when somebody stabs us in the front, in the face. Someone that we love and care about and we trust. And then when that happens, in the rarer moments when they point at you and they say, oh, yeah, Any response? You, oh, you're screaming in pain. You should sh, Be quiet, be quiet. Then you start to think you're crazy. You're not crazy. This is insane. Madness.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or let me say it this way. You know what? It's not madness. It's not insanity at all. It's just clear data that he does not want this marriage. He does not, period, want, period, to be married to you, period. And that was a lot of periods. And I was trying to be emphatic.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because nobody who hurt somebody like he hurt you decides going to go ahead and rub her face in the concrete. And who cares if you have a nine year old who's like, I don't want to switch team. It doesn't matter. You're nine. There's a grenade in the middle of your home. I don't care less what you want. You're nine. We're playing rec ball. We're not playing baseball this year. How about that? We're going to go fishing. Because I'm going to rebuild my marriage from the inside out because I just messed it up. Yeah, I, I, I'm rarely speechless. And you got me on this one, Michelle.

[Michelle]

Yeah, no, it's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Even though I'm speaking a lot.

[Michelle]

Yeah, no, I, I mean, there's, I don't know what to say because, I mean, he's trying. We're trying out for another team.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So quit baseball.

[Michelle]

Stop. I did, I did suggest that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Suggest. You have a voice in this, Michelle. You've got a voice. You're getting dragged behind a car through your community and you're like, hey, what if we went slower? Like, like, stop.

[Michelle]

Yeah, that's true. I guess we put it like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to take the driver's seat back in your own life. We're trying out for other teams. Quit baseball. You. It's God almighty. What is wrong with people? Okay, I'm talking way too much, even though I'm speechless, which I know sounds weird, but God help me, that's, that's.

[Michelle]

Kind of what I've shared with him, too. I've told him, okay, look at it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Stop sharing. Stop sharing. You got to just tell him. Like I listen, okay, how can I help? I'm just, I'M just kind of getting out of my seat.

[Michelle]

I mean, it's. It's. That's basically it. Like, we want to work on our marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He absolutely does not. He Absolutely 1000% does not care about your marriage. Period. End of story. End of story. I hear behavior is a language. He wants to spend hours and hours and hours in a confined space on a joint mission and purpose with the woman he cheated on you with. Period. End of story. That's it.

[Michelle]

Okay. I guess that's me having to take.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you got to metabolize that kind of. That kind of pain. I've had people who cheat at work and who quit their jobs to save their marriage. And that's noble. Fed people get rid of their computers because they're struggling with pornography. And their spouse says enough is enough. Like, there's people who move. They go to the ends of the earth to save their marriage. Your husband is not be interested in being married to you as only so far as. I mean, you kind of will take anything, right?

[Michelle]

Yeah, I guess. I guess I've been the one that's kind of been holding on for our kids for everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have a daughter?

[Michelle]

Yes, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Imagine she's 22 and you're. She's telling you this story. What would you tell her to do?

[Michelle]

Friend.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I feel like I matter on your behalf than you are.

[Michelle]

I guess I. I don't know why it's just so hard for me to stand up for myself.

[Jason]

I guess in this sense, I'm not gonna.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not Michelle. I'm not gonna beat you up. Let's don't do that. It just is. I hate it for you. I hate you being treated like this. Nobody, nobody, nobody deserves to be hurt like this. Nobody. I'm so sorry.

[Lawrence]

No.

[Michelle]

Yeah, me too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And like, make no mistake, like.

[Michelle]

I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Guess the picture in my head is there's a house fire and the house burned to the ground. And you were checking out the ashes of the house and a beam that had kind of burned through started to fall, and you were holding it up. Your arms are so tired, you're covered in soot and ash and you're exhausted, but you don't want to drop the beam because you don't want to acknowledge the house fell.

[Michelle]

Yeah, that's. Because that's. That's exactly how it feels like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So regardless of all the nonsense advice you're gonna get, nobody can give you your next decision, your next choice. If somebody cheats in a relationship and the other person chooses to stay and they choose to rebuild their marriage and rebuild trust. I applaud that. I think that's amazing. I'll be in the corner all day long. And if somebody cheats in a relationship and they say, I've got. I can't. I can't come back, I'll sit with you, too. I'll be in your corner all day long, too. The one thing I can't stomach is the person who cheats blows up everything and then looks over and says, yeah, I'm gonna keep doing this. I mean, help me out. What's. What's his justification?

[Michelle]

I mean, he's. He did say it was because, you know, he felt like our marriage was already kind of crumbling in a sense. I had started therapy, and he refused to do any therapy. And so then when they started talking, it never was like that, but it started becoming more emotional there and then, because he would vent to her and they would talk about baseball and, you know, talk. Then they started. She started having problems in her marriage, and so then they started talking about each other's marriages, and that's how that started.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so let me. Let me pause there. That's not an uncommon scenario. And this is going to sound strange to say, like, that doesn't freak me out. Like, that part isn't. I'm trying to think of the right words. It's not rare, but. What on earth. Post that moment. The. Oh, my gosh, I just changed everything. I just slept with one of my close friends. Wives. I just slept with one of my wife's close friends. Someone I travel with that we coach games. Like, I just, Whoa. What in the world could possibly be the justification for being like, all right, so here's the deal. We're going to continue coaching together.

[Michelle]

Well, his. For him, it's because he doesn't want people to find out what happened. So he doesn't want to leave the team abruptly. And then people start questioning why he left. And I said, who cares? Since when do you care what people say or think about you? Now all of a sudden, you care. And that's why we're trying to. We were trying to quietly exit because nobody knows. I mean, between the four of us, minus, like, a cousin of mine, nobody else knows. In our family, in our friend circle. So that's why he was trying to do a clean break, but now that the season's about to start, he's like, well, I don't know if I want to leave just yet. We agreed we're just going to do this last season, and then we're done. But I'm finding it hard to do that. Even though they've cut all communication, like, her phone numbers blocked, like, they don't interact at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Guarantee you they figured out a way around that. Guaranteed my truck is not nice, but I would bet the whole thing, they figured it out. I, I, I, I'm literally heartbroken for you, with you.

[Michelle]

Yeah, me too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If he cares more about his precious little imaginary reputation among the little league community, and he does about his marriage, that's about all you need to know.

[Michelle]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or let me see it like this. You're worth more than that. I'm just, I'm just embarrassed, man. I would get on the phone with somebody who's a trusted professional asap. And I think for you, going back to the house on fire analogy, you need to have somebody that can help you, like, clear the smoke and the ash so you can figure out what you want to do next. And maybe sit with a counselor in your local area that can walk through, like, okay, this one's happening, and this is happening, and this is happening. So they can be as hopefully as direct as I'm being. I just, I can't. I can't wrap my head around it. This is just shameful in so many different levels. It's embarrassing. I just keep saying embarrassing. I just embarrassed. Gosh, those calls, Michelle, there's not a happy ending to this one. I, I, I'm just heartbroken. Maybe he comes home today and he's like, dude, I'm. I'm out of my mind. I've been crazy. I quit the team. We're not playing baseball. I'm out. I'm not going to answer the five texts I get from parents because I don't care. And I'm saving my marriage. Ends of the earth. Here we go. Maybe, maybe. But good grief. I'm sorry, my sister. I'm sorry. Thank you for the call. Call anytime. If you get up to some big decision points, holler at me. Be happy to sit with you. We'll be right back. All right. You've heard the rumors, and they are true. The modern world exposes us to things that were unheard of until just a few decades ago. Listen, I'm talking about screens in our homes, screens in our offices, fluorescent lights, EMFs. All of these things can affect our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and more. And that's why I'm so excited to partner with Bon Char, a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use Bon Charge products, all of the time literally every single day. And I love them. And here's why. I think you're going to love them too. Studies show that red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress and help with sleep. And it can help your recovery from aches and pains, transform your skin, and even help with cellulite and stretch marks. My red light therapy panels, the infrared sauna blanket, my EMF mat, and more have become a cornerstone of my health and wellness routine. I use them every single day. And I want you to check out Bon Charge's other amazing products like blue light glasses, EMF protection products, infrared sauna blankets, and 100% blackout sleep masks. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15%. That's B O n C H A r g e boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15%. Go check them out. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say it a thousand times and I'm gonna keep saying it. You're worth being well. And I know many of you don't believe this to be true, but it is. And being well is hard work. But you're worth the work. And therapy can help. I see a therapist and many of you should see one too. But let's be real. Taking that first step to see a therapist can feel overwhelming and exposing. Maybe it's time. Maybe you have some preconceived notions about whether it will even work or not. Or maybe it's cost. Or maybe you're just not sure where to start. I know because I've been there. We spend money on gym memberships, organic groceries. Some of you are essential oil people. Some of you use special shampoos and creams and tracker watches. But when it comes to our mental and emotional health, we hesitate. Listen, your mental and emotional health are just as important as your physical health. And the good news, Therapy is now more accessible than ever. And BetterHelp makes therapy more affordable and and convenient. Since it's online, you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. No waiting rooms, no long commutes and no six month waiting lists. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get started. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney let's go out To Memphis, Tennessee, right down the road from where I am and talk to Lawrence. What up, Lawrence?

[Jason]

Hey, Dr. John. Glad. Glad to be on.

[Lawrence]

A little.

[Jason]

A little nervous, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, you're good, brother. Thanks for calling in, man.

[Jason]

Yeah, yeah. So, yes. Glad to be on. Nervous. Nervous to be on. This is a little. A little different for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. Well, I appreciate you having the courage to reach out, man.

[Jason]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's just you and me and a couple million people. It's all good.

[Jason]

Oh, yeah. Nobody. Nobody listens. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And trust me. No, nobody does. So.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Jason]

So how do we. How we jump into this? And Cannonball.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cannonball is the best way.

[Jason]

Cannonball. Yeah. So. So a whole. Whole whopping seven months ago, married this amazing, beautiful woman. We started dating approximately three years ago and moved really fast. I mean, she was the unicorn that. That I. That every guy dreams of, dreams of running into. She started off kind of as a. As a client of mine through a hobby job that I was doing. And then we had. We had both recently, you know, ended previous relationships and kind of found confidence in each other and quickly snowballed into a relationship and, you know, same hobbies, same interest, same, you know, everything. And we got married in May. I had brought a lot of baggage into the relationship financially and entered this marriage not really standing on my two feet, just trying to play catch up with life and bad decisions in the past. And everything was great up until planning the marriage. Our relationship had kind of gotten a little rocky there for a little bit. And I kind of alluded to, you know, just the stress of planning a wedding and planning a marriage. And, you know, post wedding, you know, we had that little honeymoon phase and things just never. Never really ironed themselves out. And so we started going to couples counseling at the beginning of June, and first. First session was great. You know, I made it adamant. You know, I'm all in just personal. Personal values, upbringing, you know, all in to work on your marriage and lean into it. And so I was all in. Our therapist gave us homework. We came back the following week, and she dropped a bombshell that she had gone back through a money tracking app that we had started doing together to kind of manage finances, kind of build a budget out. And she had found where I had basically paid for porn. It was something that I didn't deny it when she brought it up. I admitted to. Was something that I had. I had struggled previously with years and years and years ago. Wouldn't necessarily say addicted to it, but struggled with it. I had stopped and then Kind of relapsed back into it in the last year, year and a half. And about August, I kind of had that realization of, you know, I'm a married guy. I've got a wife. What am I. What am I doing? And stopped cold turkey. But she went through that money app and did some digging and investigating on her own and found it. I. I tried to cover it up. It was an app where you could change the name of the charges and things like that. I'd seen it on there. I tried to cover it up out of shame and guilt. Never admitted it to her out of shame and guilt. I had told her that I had. That I had previously had a problem with porn and admitted that to her later in our relationship out of a fear of being vulnerable to her and being judged for it. And I guess when she did her whole investigating and found blew up to I can't be trusted. She called me a cheater a couple times, which hurt. Which hurt the most, because I would never. While I understand that porn, you know, some people can look at it as cheating, I would never act on that. I would never physically step out of my marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but she doesn't know that.

[Jason]

Yeah, she doesn't know that. But the trust thing is the hardest part, that she feels like she can't trust me. And she basically said that she wanted that she needed some time to think. And our therapist suggested the one week no contact. That was the hardest, longest week of my life, I thought at the time. And we reconvened, and she walked into the therapy session late. I noticed she didn't have her wedding band on. When I saw her walk in the door, my heart immediately sank because that was the first thing that I noticed, that she wasn't wearing her wedding band. And she sat down and said she wanted a divorce. And my life has been basically crumbled since then. So we're a month post that last therapy session. Our therapist suggested we each individually see therapist again. I dove all in. I've been meeting with my therapist weekly here, more recently bi weekly. And I'm all in, you know, trying to do better for myself, fix my problems, my vulnerability, my honesty problems, vagueness problems, and trying to figure out how I can, you know, earn my wife. I still refer to my wife, although she's filed for a divorce.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So she has filed paperwork?

[Jason]

Yeah, she's filed paperwork. She's gotten her lawyer. I got my lawyer just to cover, you know, protect myself. And we're kind of letting the lawyers, you know, do their thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I'm still okay, but so you got. You have to exhale that this is over.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you haven't yet, have you?

[Jason]

No, I'm still trying to. I'm still trying to hold on. Still trying to fight, because I do, I do love her with everything that I've got. And I'm willing to do anything to show her that I'm all in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but you got to hear her say she doesn't care.

[Jason]

Yeah, I know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's hard to hear.

[Jason]

Yeah, it is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So how can I help you, man? I hate that you're going through all this.

[Jason]

I don't know. I understand. You know, I've got to go through the self healing process first. I'm still going.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, you do, but.

[Jason]

Really just move. I'm in a hole. And I'm just trying to figure out, you know, how that light at the end of this. At the end of the hole.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Stop digging. Yeah, stop digging.

[Jason]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's why I wrote this down. When you first started talking, you came into this marriage thinking you were less than her sexually, financially, probably attractiveness. Like, you came in thinking, oh my gosh, look at the fish I got on this line.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so everything, all of your actions are from a position of. I love how you just ended it. I'm in a hole.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And until you stop working, walking around, giving your credit card to a. To a porn company is in the whole behavior.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That is less than that is. I am desperately trying to feel alive in my own skin. So much so that I'll take one of the most untrustworthy groups of people on the planet and give them my account number.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You said something that I want to make sure I double click on that. You. You kind of held some stuff back from her because you were worried about her judging you. But I got a sense that you kind of feel right righteous about that. Like.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

See, when you found out, you're not. You're judging me.

[Lawrence]

Not.

[Jason]

Not really. And I dove. I dove into that as I've always had issues with just being vulnerable. Yeah. Just previous. Previous life. I. I lost my dad when I was in fifth grade and, you know, I kind of was forced to grow up and had to put on this Persona of being 10 foot tall and bulletproof for family and stuff like that. And I've always had a. A problem of letting myself be vulnerable to other people. And I didn't realize how much that affected me until I dove in with my. My personal therapist.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So. So what?

[Jason]

So it was a scared I Was, I was scared of being, and I don't blame her for the way that she acted.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, hold on, hold on. It's very, very rare. I, I, I'm not sitting in day in and day out in marriage therapy offices. Okay, so in, in law, law offices. But in my world, it is very, very rare for somebody to find an old incidence of paying for or, or pornography. Search history found an old expense. What was this? Because that story is not super ringing true with me. Either that or she wanted out of this thing so bad and she found a path.

[Jason]

Yeah, and, and that's what I'm thinking, that this is kind of a, a death of a thousand cuts. And that was.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but you only, you were only together seven months. There's not even time to have a thousand cuts unless you're screaming at her and hitting her and swearing and just being an all around scumbag. Right? Yeah.

[Jason]

No, and it was actually kind of, kind of the opposite direction.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, so what was, what did she find?

[Jason]

That, that's what, that's what she told me. You know, and there was really nothing else. I mean I had, I tried to start, I tried to start a business right there when we got married, which took a lot of my time, which probably wasn't the smartest, smartest move on my part.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's, that, that's all fine and good. There's some, there's something else here, brother.

[Jason]

And I don't know, was it pornographic?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Was it like pornography or was it like webcam girl? Like what? Was it interactive?

[Jason]

No, it wasn't interactive. It was only fans, but it was, I was strictly paying, paying for videos. There was no interaction there or anything like that. I was just paying, paying for videos and subscriptions. And you know, she, she, she basically said that, you know, a lot of lied about it. I relapse, I'm, I'm cheating on her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and you said you don't have an addiction problem, but you continue to use addiction language.

[Jason]

Yeah, and I was never clinically dinosis. Addicted. Sure, I guess I, yes, I am.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't, I mean, I don't think you are, just from what you're talking about. But I don't work with you day in and day out, so I don't know. But I, yeah, I, I really don't know how I can help other than the faster you exhale into. I mean she's, it's one thing if she says I want a divorce, takes her ring off and then doesn't do anything for a month or two. Yeah, Then you for. In my world, that's the. So you're telling me there's a chance? Yeah, this is. This is filing. Here's the paperwork. The lawyers have a date, and we're moving down the road. That's when, like, here's the deal, man. You can't go to all this therapy and do all this stuff to try to win her back. You got to go to the therapy and stuff because there's something not right. And it might be that she's not right. And I might say she can do whatever she wants. She can divorce you for whatever reason, and she's feels. This is infidelity. It's infidelity. I'm out. Okay. But either. This is just. I don't know. I'd have to. I'd have to talk to both of you longer, I think, to. To get a better beat on this thing. But what I can tell you is the faster you exhale and grieve this thing, it's heartbreaking. You did some stuff. You weren't honest about it. It doesn't matter what anybody else's opinion on it is. She says that's a violation. That's infidelity. I'm out. I can't trust you sexually. I can't trust you financially. You hide things. You go change labels. We went to marriage counseling in June, and it's August when I found this out. And so we've been through two or three months of counseling, and you didn't tell me. I'm out. I'm out. People could judge her all day long, but she's got every right to walk. It's you that's got to exhale and go, okay, this is happening. What's going to be different next time? And by the way, she's not a unicorn, dude. When you put that kind of pressure on somebody, that somehow you've found this mystical being that people tell you doesn't exist, you find somebody and you choose to love them. And you keep showing up, and you keep showing up, and you keep showing up. See how the best thing I can tell you, man, is keep seeing a counselor. But also put yourself in a position where you can begin to act differently in a way that you learn to trust you. Because right now you're entering into all these relationships. The counselor, the marriage, the everything from in a hole. Stop digging and just stand up. The hole's not as deep as you think it is. Stand up. And this one may have cost you everything. And dig down on the chin. That's another big loss for you press your dad and your marriage. That's tough. Tough, tough, tough stuff. Tough. There is healing on other side, man. But you got to own the reality of where you find yourself. Thanks for the call, man. Best of luck to you. Holler back if I can help in any way, man. If you've got some directed questions I can help with, I'd be happy to walk with you. We'll be right back. All right, good. Folks, there's a lot of talk these days about the ingredients in what we eat and what we drink, the food dyes and the colors and the extra nasty chemicals, the pesticides. Listen, I'm not a food scientist, but I know none of this stuff sounds good. And this is one of the big reasons why I love organifi. I trust their ingredients for me and for my kids. I don't have to worry about anything. Organifi products are certified organic, non gmo, gluten free, pesticide free and herbicide free. And they make it super easy to get your daily dose of superfoods with their green juice and red juice. Organifi green juice is a detoxifying mix of 11 superfoods like Ashwagandha that help boost your immune system, reduce stress and help you feel good. And their red juice is filled with antioxidants and it recharges your mind and your body with natural energy. It's focused without the caffeine jitters. And finally, don't forget their greatest hits album, the Organifi starter kit with red and green juice travel packs and magnesium capsules for easy access to good stuff even when you're on the go. And right now you'll save 20% on the kit at Organifi.com Deloney with promo code Deloney. Go to O R G A N I f I organifi.com DeLoney today and use code DeLoney for 20 off everything else on their site. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Reno, Nevada and talk to Jason. Redeem the show. Jason, what's up?

[Lawrence]

Good morning, sir. How are you today?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm all right, brother. What's going on in your world?

[Lawrence]

Just a quick correction. It's Nevada, not Nevada. The true Nevadans will. Will catch you on that one. But you. I'm just. I'm just saying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Desert dweller rat.

[Lawrence]

For sure. For sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, say it one more time. It's Nevada.

[Lawrence]

It's Nevada.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nevada.

[Lawrence]

It's Nevada. We from Nevada, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We from Nevada.

[Lawrence]

Yeah. All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Anyway, sounds like you're falling and just hit the Ground like Nevada.

[Lawrence]

And we don't count Vegas. Vegas is California. So whatever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We here in Texas and Tennessee, we call it Nevada because we're. Yeah, we're a little bit perfect with our speech.

[Lawrence]

I'm just letting you know, if they're from Nevada, they're gonna roll their eyes at you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Trust me, bro. I've said Louisville. Almost got shot for that one. What was the one in. In Pittsburgh that I said, Kelly? Lancaster. Yeah, I said Lancaster. In Pennsylvania, it's Lancaster. You would have thought. Anyway.

[Lawrence]

Okay, so I didn't know that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Anyway. Jason from Nevada. What's up, man?

[Lawrence]

Hey. My world kind of blew up, and the ride or die said she didn't want to be married anymore. I gave her. I did. Yeah, it was rough. I did the turn the lights off or turn the lights on, slow down the music conversation at breakfast. Yep. And I thought it was pretty good. And she said, nope. I said, okay. So then I followed up a couple weeks later, said, all right. Well, then I wrote an email and said, well, I think these are the options to blow it up. The house. You sell it. We don't have a place to live. You try and buy me out, I try and buy you out. You know, get the lawyers involved with a lot of money, trying to be respectful, amicable. We got two sons. And she's like, well, what about nesting? So what? It turned. And it turned into. I was like, all right, if I can go explore that option, we got a. I got a family member down the road a little bit. And I said, I'll go see if, you know, their extra room is available. And they would. They said, well, before I could even have that conversation, it was breakfast, made some phone calls, this and that. Then she's like, wait, no, let's not do that. We left breakfast saying, let's try nesting. That was kind of the.

[Jason]

You know.

[Lawrence]

And then on my way over to, like, have that. Well, no. What about just co parenting under the same house, knowing what we know, not telling anybody yet. I'm like, wait, what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. No.

[Lawrence]

Isn't there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nope. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Nesting is a terrible idea.

[Lawrence]

That's kind of what I was thinking. So on the follow up that a week later, she's like, can you come to my theorist appointment? I was like, sure, yeah. You got something to say? Well, I just need to save space to talk about this. All right, what you got? Well, what about separation? And you just leave for a little while while I get my stuff lined out in my head? No, you're the one Wanting a divorce. I said, that's right. I want to ride or die. I want to go. I can fix this. I don't think there's grounds. Like, there isn't any trip, you know, infidelity. Like, I'm not some, you know, drunk. You know, I'm not. I'm not a bad guy. I don't think. And I think when I hear you. I've been binging your show for about six months, and I can see the failure factory. I can see that. Not handling your own trauma. I can. Like, I've gone through my own journey. We have drama with my youngest, this and that, and I don't think she processed it. And it's turning into, I don't want to be married. And if I do something else, and I don't know what to do, because the next conversation with the therapist last night was, well, what if you leave the house and I stay here? I'm like, wait, what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Yeah, no. If she wants to leave you, she can leave you. She's an adult and you can't stop her. Okay, but coming up with these bull crap, hippie, dippy, over intellectualized ways to avoid reality and for people.

[Lawrence]

Reality, exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

People listening. Nesting is. We're going to keep the kids at the house because the. Supposedly it's better for the kids for mom and dad to get divorced, but the kids to stay in the house, and mom lives there a couple days a week and dad lives there a few days a week instead of them going back and forth. The part that the intellectual goofballs leave out is if we had that ability to coordinate, we'd be able to fix our marriage. If we had that kind of resources, we could. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just. It's. It's lunacy. And the fact that kids are, Are. Are air filters for a home. They absorb everything. And so when you have just. It's. It's just madness. It's madness, dude. Anyway, I could go on. I don't want to derail the conversation. It sounds like I. I trust you, man. You sound like a pretty amazing guy. It sounds like your wife is spinning out and is just trying to whack a mole with feelings and hurt and all that stuff, and you're bearing the brunt of it, but at the end of the day, she's choosing to dissolve your marriage and leave. Then if she's making that choice, that choice comes with a whole bunch of consequences. And choosing to work on your marriage and to recommit and Build something new. That's a choice too. Both of those are hard. She just has to choose her hard.

[Lawrence]

So then, okay, I told that she's like, I don't want to choose that hard. Okay, fair. So then the next conversation stepped up to like, all right, well then what do you tell the boys? What I want to tell the boys is like, I wanted to be married. Mom didn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Lawrence]

I don't that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are they?

[Lawrence]

We're in the third. About to be 13 couple months and about to be 10.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, that is a fair statement.

[Lawrence]

Right. And the therapist, which I think is a loon, she's like, well, yeah, let's not you know something where you know it villain of villainate vilifies one person.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or the other, but one person is the villain here. Right.

[Lawrence]

Well. Or she said something like that. I'm kind of like, I told her I want to be married and she doesn't want like a nine year old. That's okay for a nine year old.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean to hear that it's like, hey, mommy is struggling like with the 13 year old. Yeah. You got to be honest because here's the deal. You can't risk them thinking as their world is exploding. Oh, my dad's a liar too.

[Lawrence]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That is hyper untethering.

[Lawrence]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There is something about you guys sitting there saying, to the ends of the earth, we love you.

[Lawrence]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We will always be there for you. We will always figure out a way to come through for you. All that kind of stuff that parents need to say together to another 13 year old whose whole world is exploding. But also it, I think it's fair to say mom is going through a lot right now and she is choosing to not be married anymore.

[Lawrence]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We both still love you. She loves you forever. And yes, a 13 year old's gonna go, I wonder if one day she chooses to not want to be my mom. That is a fair question.

[Lawrence]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's needs to be addressed on the table. And you can't avoid this with a 9 year old. It does need to be a little more delicate.

[Lawrence]

Yeah. He's our special one and he understands, he's smart, he has some medical stuff. And again, there's my like, after listening to you, I can be like, hey, you didn't resolve this grief. Like you didn't like. And I had people that had my back and mowed my lawn and like I cried with a lot of guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Lawrence]

And she didn't have that. And she didn't look for it for me either.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And My guess is it's well, dub inside of her soul. That plus everything else, plus probably some resentment that you had all the support and she didn't and yada yada, at the end of the day, she doesn't, she doesn't feel safe in her own skin. She doesn't like the life she's co created.

[Lawrence]

Right. And I can't do nothing about that except. That's right, make money and try and be around. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I mean the only thing you could do is what you've done, which is say, hey, we have, we have co created this life. I want to co create a new one with you. And she said no.

[Lawrence]

Yep.

[Jason]

And so then, yeah, there's not a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Way to soft land this.

[Lawrence]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to tell her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think, I think you're on to something. And this isn't every relationship, but I think in your marriage particular, I think you love her enough and see enough. I've known her well enough to know this is going to be yet another Xanax.

[Lawrence]

Oh, and I want to clarify also, like, I've had my Xanax too. Don't get me wrong.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, we all know. We all do. We all do.

[Lawrence]

I, I did it like I messed up and you know, I look forward. Yeah, I get it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We all, we all have. We all do. We all do. I'm saying, you know, this is her kicking the can down the road even further.

[Jason]

That's what I feel like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She'll have a reckoning at some point. With a mirror. With a mirror.

[Lawrence]

So my dilemma now is like, all right, well now she wants to. But nesting was the first. Now the second one's like, how about you move out of the house just so I can buy some time so that I can set myself up and you know, my teaching credential needs to come through and this and that, blah, blah, blah, big.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So how big boy and big girl decisions come with big boy and big girl choices and consequences, period.

[Lawrence]

How do I say that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Lovingly, I think, is loving. Nothing you say is going to be received lovingly. Because lovingly for her is, I want the world to bend to how I feel in this particular moment. And she found some therapist that would bend that way. She found some Internet article that said, well, here's an alternative to reality. We'll call it nesting. Where we're going to live under the illusion that the kids lives aren't disrupted or they're minimally disrupted when it's just, you know what I mean?

[Lawrence]

So to Me, I want to turn it into a, like, find it. Like I make all the money. Not all the money she makes. She has two part time jobs and she's like, well, and a few years ago she, she put her. Started putting her. She just got into part time jobs. She had a teaching career for a little bit and started putting. Stashing all that money in an account. I couldn't. Okay, fine, whatever. That's her savings. I make enough money to make the house go right, so her. Well, if you move out, I'll start putting my part time paychecks in there so we can run the house. I'm like, it costs $4,000 a month to run the house. Like you're 80, 100, whatever it is. And you want me to move out?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Lawrence]

That doesn't sound like I deserve that one. But I don't know how to not, you know, like, turn this into a bickering, fighting, blow up grenade and still hold integrity and do the right thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It already is. And so let me just tell you this. In my house, I would, heartbreakingly, and with all the grief in the world, if my wife was having the same conversation, I would say, hey, I love you. And if you need to go, I won't stand at the door like you're an adult. I'll do anything and everything that I can to help you create a world where you feel safe enough to stay. But if you want to go, you can go. I'm not going to leave. This is my house and these are the kids. And if you want to take the kids from their home, you can take me to court. But you can't pretend that you're, you can't. At the same time you're blowing up this family, you can't also pretend that everything is mostly going to stay the same. And I would say that by, in an honorable way in retaining her dignity, she's clearly going through hell. But it's a disassociative. Like she does not have her feet on the ground. And I'm heartbroken that she got in with a therapist that didn't firmly plant her feet on the ground and say, I'll sit with you and walk with you and I'll hold up a mirror as we go through this, this separation, this divorce. But I'm going to be honest. We got to make a budget and we're gonna have to talk about what no fault looks like in Nevada. And we gotta, we gotta go through these things and what sharing custody is, because the world you're envisioning is not a real world and her therapist failed her. And I'm sorry.

[Lawrence]

I'm just looking for anything else I can do that could be a right move.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think you're a pretty good man.

[Lawrence]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, it sounds like you've gone to hell and back. Or maybe you're not back yet. And maybe.

[Lawrence]

Maybe I'm getting there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I know. Well, here's the thing. The challenge is when you get back, your. Your skin's a little bit thicker and it's easy to want to just mount up and go to war. And I think for you, the challenge is going to be exhaling because pretty soon she's going to go from this woman I'm desperately trying to stay married to to a woman who's blown up my kids lives.

[Lawrence]

War would feel better. You're right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's hard. It's harder to stay in it and it's harder to make that shift. Like I'm gonna model for my two boys.

[Lawrence]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What dignity and respect looks like when they're getting punched in the face so hard. But this is my home. This is their home. And we're gonna stay here. If you want to go. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna slash your tires. Hey, brother, I'm heartbroken for you. Hey, how about this? See if your wife will call in, okay?

[Lawrence]

She, I sent her, I sent her one just to see if she would do it. Like, hey, check this out. And I told, I called her like you, I would even alluded to your advice. I said, hey, I'm talking to this group. She's like, oh, you're new guru.

[Jason]

I got a guru.

[Lawrence]

Hey, thank you for your time. I really appreciate what you do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

God bless, brother. Thanks for being in our gang. Dude. I'm so sorry this is happening, man.

[Lawrence]

Thank you. Take care.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, so, so sorry. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about delete me. My go to provider for online safety, security and peace of mind. Please don't skip past this. Listen, we all live on the Internet these days, and I wish this wasn't the case, but it doesn't matter what I wish. It's just happening. Everything in my life and everything in your life takes place over the Internet. Our work, our personal messages and communications. We buy most of our things on the Internet now. It's where so much of our lives exist. And because so much of our lives exist there now, it's just become weirdly normal to just give away our email address to random strangers. Just give away our cell phone numbers to random companies who then turn around and sell our information to other companies. This is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete Me. I looked at my reports from my friends at Delete Me. It's madness. They've reviewed over 35,000 different data brokers with my personal information and they've removed my personal info from hundreds of scamm data broker sites. Delete Me has saved me countless hours, days even, by removing all of this nonsense for me. And they've sent detailed reports that show me exactly what they've removed and from where. I want you to have this kind of piece too. We can't really avoid the Internet, but we can help make our personal data personal again with Delete Me. Get protected with Delete Me today and get 20% off all delete Me plans. This comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney to check them out. That's J-O-I-N JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, we are back. I guess we're a month out from the last Money in marriage event. We got tons of just pretty amazing questions that were part of a lot of the Q and A's that we do. The October money marriage and the February money marriage for 20, 25 and 26 are already open if you want to come join us in Nashville, Tennessee. It's in a just extraordinary weekend. But here's a question that comes from the money Marriage weekend. We are in our late 30s and we make about 250 grand a year. Dang, Gina. Maybe y'all are hiring. We both come from families that struggled financially. We've made more disposable income than we thought we'd ever make. We like to spend money on things like travel. Last year we spent 20 grand on travel. Is that too much? How do we think through the best way to allocate, quote, unquote, extra money and not feel guilty? Man. This is something that actually my buddy Dave Ramsey's taught me about personally because I grew up with not a lot too. And my life has changed here now that I'm living in this, the last great loophole of mankind called podcasting. Well, there's a couple things here. Number one, if you find yourself with more money than you ever thought you would make, it's important to acknowledge the ratios. Meaning if you make $30,000 a year, you're driving a used Corolla and you're going to drive it till it dies. Right? Because that's X percentage of your annual salary. If you make $500,000 a year then a nice used Lexus and a new. The new Lexus proportionally to your salary is less than that used Corolla was to when you made 30,000 bucks. So there's something ratio that has given me peace. Lets me exhale a little bit. The second thing here is some people who grew up with money very scarce. It's wired into your nervous system. Money is something to be afraid of. There's never going to be enough. It's always going to run out. That's just your body trying to take care of you. So don't go to war with your body. But I always tell people when you're making out a budget to put money that you will give away and put that at the top of the list. Giving is a. It's a, it's a way to enter into the world as though I am participating in this world. I'm a person who gives. I'm a person of generosity. And the second one is I tell people who are struggling with scarcity mindsets or that guilt feeling you have put money away that you will spend on yourself. You have to practice enjoyment, you have to practice joy, you have to practice peace. Those are just things we've never done before. It's great, it's good. And then the last thing is feeling guilty. You might feel guilty for a while and so you can come up with some tips or tricks like I don't know, I'm gonna commit to giving away. If I'm gonna go on a vacation that cost X, I'm gonna give away a quarter of that money to a charity that I love or to some friends who want to send the kid to college or whatever, to a family member, whatever. You can come up with stuff like that. I personally like the idea of feeling a little bit guilty looking at the math and saying is math on my side here? Yes. And then go on a vacation. And while you're on the vacation or on these different travel experiences which by the way I think the data says spending money on experiences is turns your default setting towards joy happiness, if you will. More than buying stuff than things. That's right. You tend to fall back to baseline more. But go on the trip and feel it while you're there. I never pictured myself here. This is outside of my picture. But here I am on this really nice vacation. Here I am at a concert on the other side of the country. Here I am. And just be present in that space and then be grateful for it. Choosing to change your default setting from panic and running all the time to gratitude just helps. But, man, late 30s make about 250k a year. You don't owe anybody any money. I'm going to read that into this. If you owe people money, if your brain knows we're on a $20,000 vacation and they're going to take our cars from us if we get fired, then, yeah, you're not going to sleep. Your body would be failing you if it let you sleep. If you have a mortgage out and they know, hey, we could take. We could lose the house if we don't, your body's not failing. It's working just as it should by giving you these feelings, these powerful emotions. But I think there's just some honesty. And, man, I never thought I'd have a marriage this good. Feels weird when we're just sitting on the couch at peace. Man, I never thought I would be this healthy after I lost all this weight. I'm just gonna feel that for a minute. I never thought we'd have money like this after growing up in a scarce environment. Just gonna sit in that discomfort for a minute and then I'm gonna be really grateful that we got struck by lightning and we're here and I'm going to be super, super, super generous and then we're going to book that trip because we're going to go see the world. So hopefully that helps. Thank you for that question. And it happens more than you think. Get tons and tons of calls on the Ramsey show, the other show that I, I co host. People struggling with how to spend their money when they've actually get there. When struggling with, man, we worked really hard and we've saved up for this car. Is it okay to get it? It's a very real thing. So thanks for the call. Thanks for being vulnerable and honest. Appreciate you. Love you guys.

[Jason]

Bye.