My Irrational Fear of Spending Money Is Ruining Our Marriage

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: My Irrational Fear of Spending Money Is Ruining Our Marriage
Date: April 20, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony, Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show explores the profound effects of family history, financial anxiety, and relationship challenges through engaging, live calls. The main theme is the emotional and psychological roots of money fears, how trauma impacts adulthood, and the complexities of long-term marital struggles—especially those shaped by addiction and resentment. Dr. Delony offers compassionate, practical advice while helping callers unpack their unique histories and relationship hurdles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fear of Spending and the Legacy of Childhood Instability

Caller: Blake (Cleveland, OH)
Theme: Lifelong anxiety about spending despite strong financial standing

• Blake’s Background:

  • Both 34 years old, married for a year and a half, together for 7 years.
  • “We’re in the best position we’ve ever been in financially… Yet I can't stop thinking about going broke or losing a job, you know, all these different things.” (00:05, 01:28)
  • Grew up as the youngest of five in a family wracked by adult problems, sudden financial loss, and parental alcoholism.
  • Still haunted by visceral memories of safety lost and chaotic transitions.

• Dr. Delony’s Analysis & Guidance:

  • The “irrational fear” is actually a nervous system response, not “wrong” or “stupid”—it’s legitimate given his past.
  • “Part of healing here is going to be choosing to stop going to war with your body.” (04:15)
  • Illustrated “driving your own nervous system” with a tactile grounding exercise (scratching his own thumb) — a way to signal agency to your subconscious.
  • The importance of communicating anxiety to a partner so they can support you—using a signal or code for when you’re anxious.

• Financial Facts:

  • Household income: $200k.
  • Modest mortgage (~$190k), emergency fund: $80k.
  • History of job security, but current doubts after a failed job switch.

• Action Steps:

  • Identify safe financial thresholds, agree on joint goals/risk, intentionally practice spending on joyful, non-ROI things (e.g., vacations, date nights).
  • “I want you to spend almost indiscriminately... I want you to budget money with one intention, and that is practicing letting it go.” (11:09)
  • Reflect on survivor's guilt and responsibility: instead of guilt, focus on creating a healthy foundation to support loved ones if needed.

• Notable Quote:

  • “The real fight is, am I safe?” (13:36)
  • “Practice, practice, intentionality and more practice. This is changing your family tree, my man.” (16:17)

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2. Supporting a Spouse in the Postpartum Period

Caller: Connor (Dayton, OH)
Theme: How can I make my wife feel loved after childbirth?

• Connor’s Situation:

  • Baby born 2 months ago. Wife voices doubts (“Do you regret marrying me?”). Connor feels emotionally overwhelmed and unsure how to support her.

• Dr. Delony’s Advice:

  • Primary expert on “how to love your wife” is your wife—keep asking her what she needs, week by week.
  • Don’t take postpartum doubts/comments personally; view them as her “reaching out in the dark” for reassurance, not as accusations.
  • Instrumental to have regular touchpoints to check in emotionally and practically—“How can I love you well this week?”
  • Stay present, sturdy, and proactive; don’t get stuck in shame spirals or react defensively to her pain.
  • “Lock your phone away... you’re going to feel incompetent, you’re going to feel bored, and you’re going to feel like you’re wasting your time. And I’m telling you right now, these are magic, magic moments.” (26:39)

• Practical Suggestions:

  • Speak to a doctor or therapist if she’s struggling.
  • Divide up household/parenting labor; learn through mistakes.
  • “Give yourself some grace,”—advice to all new parents feeling inadequate (27:56).

• Notable Moment:

  • Gifted caller a year on the Together app for couples to foster daily connection.

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3. Navigating the End of a Marriage After Addiction

Caller: Lynn (Houston, TX)
Theme: When a long marriage ends in deep apathy and resentment after years of addiction

• Lynn’s Story:

  • 50-year-old woman, 31 years together, 26 married. Husband—a high-functioning alcoholic—now entering rehab after years of pleas from Lynn and their kids.
  • Lynn feels she’s “moved on,” lost respect and all romantic feelings. Carries exhaustion from being the main breadwinner and caretaker—feels burnt out and apathetic.
  • Asks: “Is it mean of me just to try to stay the status quo and stay the platonic marriage we’ve had, or should I go ahead and give him a divorce?”

• Dr. Delony’s Perspective:

  • “Your marriage has been over forever.” (37:00)
  • Acknowledges the complexity: Lynn stayed for her kids—even outsourced the divorce decision to her 14-year-old daughter, a move he gently critiques as “not fair.”
  • Stresses personal responsibility in co-creating this reality—but also validates her exhaustion and pain.
  • Points out that allowing husband to return to a loveless, status-quo arrangement would be “dishonest” and “cruel.” (49:24)
  • Suggests the compassionate route: inform husband of her decision while he’s in rehab, ideally coordinated with his care team for support.

• Reflections on Compassion and Responsibility:

  • Dr. Delony—deep empathy for both the addict and the spouse: “If he was a stranger, you would treat him with more grace… The fact that you’re mad that he’s going to get help…”
  • “You’re addicted to anger, you’re addicted to righteousness, and you’re addicted to rage.” (43:47)
  • Advice: “The most compassionate thing… would be to let him know while he’s surrounded by care and support.” (44:12)

• Notable Quote:

  • “If nothing changes, well, it’s dishonest… It’s cruel.” (49:24)
  • “Not every call in the show has a happy ending. This is a tough one.” (54:02)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Part of healing here is going to be choosing to stop going to war with your body.” – Dr. John Delony (04:15)
• “I want you to budget money with one intention, and that is practicing letting it go.” – Dr. John Delony (11:09)
• “The real fight is, am I safe?” – Dr. John Delony (13:36)
• “The expert on what your wife needs to feel loved is your wife.” – Dr. John Delony (19:54)
• “Give yourself some grace.” – Dr. John Delony (27:56)
• “Your marriage has been over forever.” – Dr. John Delony (37:00)
• “If nothing changes, well, it’s dishonest… It’s cruel.” – Dr. John Delony (49:24)

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Timestamps for Main Segments

• [00:05 – 16:17]: Blake’s call: Financial anxiety, family history, practicing joyful spending
• [19:31 – 28:47]: Connor’s call: Postpartum marital support, vulnerability, new fatherhood
• [32:17 – 49:25]: Lynn’s call: Long marriage impacted by addiction and apathy, moral injury, end-of-marriage considerations
• [51:06 – 54:12]: Debrief and reflections with co-host Kelly—on the cruelty of status quo and compassion in endings

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Tone and Takeaway

Dr. Delony’s tone is deeply empathetic, direct, and grounded in real-world experience. He blends tough love with vulnerability—normalizing struggles, challenging callers compassionately, and calling for self-awareness, kindness, and personal responsibility. The episode leaves listeners with a sense that healing is a process of practice and presence; that intentional communication and compassion are vital, especially in life’s messiest moments.

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This summary preserves the candid, sometimes raw spirit of the episode, distilling the advice and emotional arcs for listeners seeking hope, tools, or comfort in their own relationship or family struggles.

Transcript

[Caller]

We're in the best position we've ever been in financially. It's all stemming from childhood, maybe, and just this irrational fear of things. But I can't stop thinking about going broke or losing a job, you know, all these different things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to press on. Your words, irrational fear. What up, what up? What up? This is Josh John with the Dr. John DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your life. Real people with real challenges. If you want to be on this show, click the link in the show notes and Kelly will get you on. Let's go out to Cleveland, Ohio, and talk to Balake. Hey, Blake. What's up, man?

[Caller]

Hey, Dr. John. How you doing?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good, brother. How are you?

[Caller]

Pretty good, thanks. What's up? Appreciate you taking my call. I'm really looking for some insight and guidance about how I can overcome this crippling fear of spending money. Seems to really be taking a toll on my marriage a little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, man, tell me about it.

[Caller]

So my wife and I have been married just over a year, about a year and a half. And how old are you? We're both 34.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

And we're in the best position we've ever been in financially. I mean, we've been together, you know, for quite a long time, so.

[Caller (Lynn)]

And it's just.

[Caller]

It's one of those things where I just feel like it's all stemming from childhood, maybe, and just this irrational fear of things. But we're saving so much money. We have a lot of savings. We're in a healthy position financially. Yet I can't stop thinking about going broke or losing a job, you know, all these different things, dude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Been there, homie. I want to press on your words, irrational fear. Tell me how money was growing up.

[Caller]

Constant, constant argument in the home. I mean, I. I'm the youngest of five boys, and we, everybody, all of us were involved in adult problems. So, you know, there was a lot of just craziness and a lot of fear of, you know, we were going to lose the house. My dad, you know, almost lost his job several times because of drunk driving. We just never had enough money to pay the bill. I mean, I take that back. We did. When I was real, everything was great, and then it was ripped away. So it was like I knew what security felt like at a young age, and then all of a sudden, I didn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. How long have you been with your new wife?

[Caller]

We've been together seven years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Seven years. Did your lived experience at home, especially with such an abrupt Transition, going from a pretty safe place to a pretty chaotic place. Did that play into how long it took you to decide? I'm going to go all in on you? Sometimes kids who grow up in pretty chaotic home environments who then meet somebody, even somebody that over time they consider safe and somebody they want to spend the rest of their life with. The idea of putting both feet in one boat till death do us part, you and me, Ride or die is not a scary proposition. In like, like scary movie kind of scary, but like in your nervous system, unwise, unsafe, unsmart, exposed. Is that, Is that part of the reason why it took seven years to. To formalize this? Or maybe not.

[Caller (Lynn)]

It is.

[Caller]

I mean, no, that's definitely, definitely part of it. Yeah. I would say there was a combination of different things I needed to do some growing up. I needed to do certain things and whatnot, but it is a little bit of that letting go, control and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you know, so the scariest part for you is that the peace you're seeking is on the other side of control. And also there's a chance on the other side of control you get hurt.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I can't guarantee you that it's going to work out on the other side of letting go, the other side of full trust. What I can guarantee you is you'll suffocate your relationship, yourself and those around you if you keep your hands closed so tightly on this side of control, I'll challenge you. I don't believe that what you're experiencing when it comes to saving money is irrational. It's burned into your nervous system. It's a lived experience. It's right for you. Okay? And so what in the reason I'm telling you that is. Is part of healing here is going to be choosing to stop going to war with your body. If you think the feelings you have and the emotions you have are wrong, irrational, stupid, misguided, then you have to fight yourself before you do the next right thing. If you can make the turn and this. And I wish there was a. A more sophisticated word than this, a more like psychologically attuned word. If you'll practice what I'm about to say, it'll change your life. And that is this literally taking your hand. I used to do it with a fist. I used to do with a whole hand, and now I can just do it. And you might see me on a stage someday doing this. I just take my forefinger and I. I scratch the inside of my thumbnail. That's often me feeling a Thing and showing my body, I felt that. Thanks for trying to take care of me. I'm going to go do this now because I'm driving. And when you put yourself in that position where your body knows I'm driving, that's the path to healing. Autonomy. Right. Agency is the nerd word for it. When your body knows you're driving, it can begin to release some of these automatic nervous system triggers from your past. And here's what this looks like in real time. Can we go through some numbers real quick?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you and your wife. What's your household income for a year?

[Caller]

About 200.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Who do y' all owe money to?

[Caller]

We just have. We have a very modest mortgage and we have her car payment that, I mean, we can pay off, but, yeah, that's a whole different story. Her work pays for it, so it's a whole different thing. But, yeah, that's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much do you have in. In, like, in an emergency fund or just cash? Liquid.

[Caller]

Like 80.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How much do you owe left on your mortgage?

[Caller]

Like, about 1, 190. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How secure is your job?

[Caller]

As of lately, it's felt a little bit insecure. I've been at this particular company for 12 years, so it's never felt that way. And it's honestly kind of a job where I feel underemployed. My wife tells me a lot, like, you should probably go get something that more equates your earning potential. But it's probably one of those things where I've stayed here because of its security. I did leave for like a year and a half to take an outside sales position that I ended up, like, getting let go of because the company was really struggling. So I took that leap of faith to leave this comfort, and it backfired. So now I'm back at the place I was at, and now it's feeling a little unstable again. But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So can I. Can I challenge you on something?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you grew up in a chaotic, unsafe. Unpredictable is probably a better word. Home environment. You said you're the youngest of. Of five brothers.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The youngest of an alcoholic son. I mean, alcoholic father.

[Caller]

And. Yeah, both. Both parents.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Any sort of setback will be felt. As I told you. So I want to suggest that you didn't get an I told you so. You got a hell, yeah. And here's what I mean. Everything in your body orients towards is there a safe place? And for you, safe means predictable.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you chose to step out of predictability for something that might happen. Like, I Just said, on the other side of control, something great could happen. You could have had an outside sales, and it could have exploded. You could have had your home and paid cash for your neighbor's home. And on the other side of control, it doesn't always work out, but when you grow up the way you did, every decision you make is judged not on strength and not on risk and not on the next right move. It's simply judged by, did you inconvenience or bother somebody else?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I would suggest you should be really, really proud of yourself for taking that step. And you learned. Oh, man. Whenever I take this step again one day and take a risk, take a step through, Step through the tension and go to the other side of control. I've got cash in the bank. I got a wife who's a good. Who makes a great salary.

[Caller]

I got.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We are going to take a risk, but not uncertain. We're not going to be homeless, and we're not going to lose food. And also, I have some more information now, some more wisdom, so I know better questions to ask about the stability of where I might try to step into. And the cool thing about getting married, especially if you marry a ride or die, somebody who's not against you but on your team, y' all, two versus the world is she's able to see things and experience things that you don't see. And that can be the beauty of things. Now, there's some wives that will nag their husbands. You need to make more money because they want a bigger Tahoe or whatever. Doesn't sound like her at all. It sounds like she's saying, dude, I see so much more potential in you than you see in yourself.

[Caller]

Yes. 100.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that means you married well, brother. That's awesome.

[Caller]

For sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So here's the path with money, everybody has a different risk profile. Okay? For me, I'm. I'm pathological, meaning I can't sleep well. Like, I literally have tracked my sleep. My sleep is less when I owe people money. It's a constant threat to my nervous system. Just is. So my wife and I have lived in smaller houses. We've. We've driven crummier cars over the years because she loves me more than she loves shiny toys. And I have committed that when we hit certain thresholds and milestones, when we have this much savings, we have this much in retirement, when we have paid this big thing off, we're going to go on whatever vacations you want to go on, we're going to Spend. Like, I want you to spend almost indiscriminately, like we budget our money, but I want you to spend whatever you want on fill in the blank. And so what I've had to do is say, are you with me? And I had to do the work of identifying this is where I feel most exposed. And then on the back end of that, saying, okay, I'm going to practice. This sounds stupid for everybody listening to this, who's really struggling financially right now. But I'm going to practice spending money. I'm going to budget money that with one intention, and that is practicing letting it go. Practicing seeing how joyful my wife is because we went to dinner together. Feeling that and then walking through it and saying, let's go do this. Let's go. Do you plan the vacation wherever you want to go? Let's go. We're going to intentionally put three date nights on the calendar, and two of them are going to be at nicer restaurants than Chili's. Right. We'll have one Taco Bell night because everybody needs a Taco Bell night, but we're gonna have two of them that are pretty nice places.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm going to practice feeling that feeling and then going to do the next right thing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Absolutely does. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wish it was more complex than that, but my promise is if you will practice over. Practice this over time, your body will reorient its your nervous system, your. Your threat detection system to one that is. Oh, this guy's driving. He's in control.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And especially if you give your wife a signal of some sort, a hand sign, a certain hug, like, whatever that lets her know, hey, I'm. I'm pretty anxious right now, or I'm nervous today, or I'm nervous this month, and she has already has a road map for how she can love you in those moments. Dude, y' all are. Y' all are way, way ahead. Most otherwise, you'll end up fighting a fight about spending and saving. And that's not the real fight. The real fight is, am I safe?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you, brother, I'm real, real proud of you.

[Caller]

Oh, thanks, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you haven't already, survivor's guilt is coming too. Are you already there?

[Caller]

Pretty much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because some of your brothers didn't make. Make it like you did, did they

[Caller]

really? Only one, to be honest. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So. So as the survivor's guilt builds and the feelings of guilt that you have, which I don't really think they're guilt, but I. But it's just an easy word to put on them. As those feelings build, consider this. I want to put myself in the best situation with my marriage, with my mental and emotional health and my finances, so that if the day comes, I need to help somebody that I care about. I'm in a position to do so. Right. It's, it's, it's, it's. It's like me switching from I want to work out so I can get a six pack and I can get ripped to making the switch to I want to exercise every day so I feel my best so I can show up and be the best husband and co worker and dad I can be. And that shift changed everything for me. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm going to say no to all my brother's text messages and requests for money and hey, hey, man. Oh, must be. I'm. I'm going to say no to those things so that when one of them needs some money down the road, needs some support or help down the road. I got you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this is just part of changing your family tree, brother, For you. It might be that you and your wife work like bananas over the next 24 months to pay your house off, and everyone's gonna say, I can't believe you're paying it down with the interest rate. They don't get a vote, dude, I call it my sleep tax. Right? Like in, in it. Maybe that's not for you. Maybe that's just for me. Maybe that's for somebody else. But, like, what is it gonna take for you to say, okay, the risk profile is low enough for me to be able to breathe. And now we're going to lean into this because you're saving money, right?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. Like crazy. I mean, but. And things we have spent good money on, they've always had like some kind of return. Like, oh, I'll spend this big boatload of money, but it's going to be on finishing the basement. Because there's a return.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It's never just, oh, yeah, let's go blow money on a cool vacation. Because there's no return except for just joy. I. I want that joy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Life will live. I'll tell you, man, what. My buddy, who's one of my best friends on planet, he's a banker. He. I remember, like, I mean, I was just ranting and raving about the ROI on this particular house I bought. And I'm going to do this. I'm going to keep it and blah, blah, blah, and flip it and move it here. And I remember he stopped me and he said, dude, get your wife a home. And I realized then I didn't know how to do that right. Like, not everything needs to ROI in the short term or on a spreadsheet. There's different types of roi. Purpose, passion, meaning laughter, fun. And if you've never experienced those, or worse, if you've experienced those and gotten hit over the head because of them, you're just gonna have to practice your way into my brother. Ask. I want you and your wife to have this. This conversation. I want you to go to dinner and. And I want you to ask her this one question. How do you want the house to feel every time I walk in, if y' all decide to have kids? How do we want the house to feel when all of us are in the house together? I want it to feel warm. I want to feel laughter. I want you to be happy I'm home. All those things. And I want you to be honest. Here's what I want to feel when I walk in the house. And I want you all to reverse engineer what must be true, what actions are going to get you and your body towards these places of peace. But, man, you are doing so, so good, dude. It's awesome. Thanks for the call, homie. Practice, practice, intentionality and more practice. This is changing your family tree, my man. We come back, a man asks how to help his wife feel loved and supported after giving birth. All right, let's talk about love and not the I wrote you every day for a year kind of love. Not that kind of nonsense love. I'm talking about a love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you with action. I'm talking about term life from Zander Insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, spouses, kids, or anyone, you need term life insurance. My wife and I trust Xander for term life insurance. I've used them for years, long before I started this show. So because I trust them when it comes to term life, here's the deal. You should get a coverage of 10 to 12 times your annual income because that gives your family real protection. So if the unthinkable happens, your family can spend their time grieving and being sad and not worrying about where their next meal is going to come from. Zander makes buying term life insurance simple, clear guidance and honest support. They help you figure out the right amount of coverage for you and your family. And they shop all the top companies to find you the best price. Getting term life Insurance is a way of saying I love you, especially when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to xander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 and get term life insurance the right way. That's xander.com. all right, we're back. Hey, please, please take two seconds, hit the subscribe button and help put this show up in more people's feed so more people can get access to these amazing, brave conversations that folks have. Let's go out to Dayton, Ohio, and talk to Connor. Hey, Connor. What's up, man?

[Caller]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good, brother. What's going on, man?

[Caller]

So I was just wondering how I make my wife feel loved after she's given birth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask on that one, dude. Have you asked her?

[Caller]

Yeah, we've had conversations about it, but, you know, I just wanted to hear from an expert, I guess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, the expert on what your wife needs to feel loved is your wife. Tell me how the conversations have gone.

[Caller]

So sometimes she'll just be in like, a moment of doubt and she'll, you know, look at me and ask if I regret marrying her or regret having our son. And I understand that at some capacity, if she even has thoughts like that, then I've. I've failed. And I. I truly. I love my wife. And I want her to feel loved and I want her to be loved. And I don't know, it just. It just makes me sad that she feels like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I've talked with her. I asked her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, how soon after. How long ago was your baby born?

[Caller]

Two months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so she's still very much in a postpartum time frame. Okay. Correct. And so I would say one of the hardest challenges, like people talk about, I don't want to. I don't know how to wash bottles or what. You can learn all that stuff. The hardest part is staying present and staying sturdy and choosing to hear certain things and not take them personally. Because that kind of statement, do you still love me? Are you still glad you married me? Is a bid for. Think of somebody with a blindfold on in the dark, reaching out, saying, are you still there? It's not an accusation or it's not an indictment. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, dude, I. I failed at this miserably. I took every word my wife said personally. I took every rejection from like 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 month old kid personally. I remember sobbing, dude, I remember being like, banging on my car dashboard. What kind of Loser father can't sue their four month old son, five month old son. And it took me, it took me a long time to realize, oh, that was not about me at all, had nothing to do with me. And if I could go back, I would hug myself and say, bro, just stay present, stay here. It's not about you. And so here's a road map for you. Okay. Is she seeing somebody

[Caller]

like a therapist?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or has she been honest with her obgyn about how she's kind of landing the plane, coming back to postpartums? Man, it's tough. It's. Everybody experiences it different and it can be a scary place. And if your wife knows, oh, I also have to manage my husband's emotions, too often she'll stop talking because she doesn't want to hurt you. And that. Stop talking. That, that, that action of stop talking, man, it just becomes, it becomes really internalized. And so sometimes people get counselors, sometimes people like, are real open and honest with their ob gyn, with their aftercare doctor just to say, like, hey, here's what I'm experiencing. And man, there's so many cool opportunities, treatments, medications, in certain cases, there's so many different things to help land that plane. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Right? Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'd highly, highly, highly recommend that she talked to the doctor. If she's struggling, okay. If it's just a random this or that. What I would re. Not a random. That's not a dismissive. But, um, if, if she's not struggling, if she's not wrestling with postpartum, if, if she's just like, her body's not where she wants it to be, her, she's doubting her skills as a new mother, which many, many, many, many people do. If she's going through that and she's just like literally reaching out in the dark center. You still here? Are you still here? A great avenue is to not look at this as the rest of your life, but to come up with a weekly touch point that is when everybody's good or as good as you can be with a two month old that just, that just blew up your entire lives, right? And say, hey, when you're not feeling great, what's, what's a couple of ways I can love you? Well, right when you're really down, what's the way I can love you?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have a couple of guys that I hang out with that I talk to. You never have to worry about my emotional well being. Right now I'm sturdy as an oak And I'm going to trust you that if I need to take something personally, you will say, I want you to take this one personally.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're giving each other roadmaps. And you're not saying, this is going to be the way it is forever, because it's just not, man. This too shall pass. But it's going to be this way for seven days. And then next week, we're going to check in on Sunday nights or Monday morning or whatever, and we're going to do this again. What about this week? What about next week? And if she tells you, hey, dude, you're not helping enough around here. And you can say, okay, can you help me? Like, I'm trying my best. I know it shouldn't be your job, but I just need help. What else needs to be done around here? I don't know how to sterilize bottles. I've never changed a diaper or whatever. And you choose not to take that personally as you're some kind of failure as a father, but instead you choose to say, I'm going to be one of those dads that steps in the gap. In the gap. And not only steps in the gap, but picks this house up from the foundation up. All men can wash dishes, all men can change diapers, all men can come home exhausted from work and take the baby because their wife is. Is crumbling under the weight. That's just what good spouses and good partners do. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm. I'm just. I'm imploring you to not take the shift and change as she doesn't love you as much anymore. She's doubting your relationship now. You're a failed father. Man, this stuff, it's all so new. It's just about doing what's the next right thing. And she's going to be the best guide for how you can love her. Well, when she's struggling, when she's up, when she's down, whatever. Like in that situation you just gave me. When my wife was two months postpartum, the greatest gift I could have given her in that moment is to say nothing and just go hug her, just go hold her. Because that wasn't a information question. It was a nervous system question.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah. Makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you scared? You nervous? Tell me what you're feeling.

[Caller]

I. It's a lot, you know, I. I feel like I don't do enough for her. And I try to. I'm not as present as I should be with the baby. I'M willing to admit that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I want you to lock your phone away and you're going to feel incompetent and you're going to feel bored and you're going to feel like you're wasting your time. And I'm telling you right now, these are magic, magic moments. If you'll lean into them through the boredom, through the frustration, through the I can't make him stop crying, through the I don't know what to do. Otherwise you're going to spend your time in a shame spiral where I'm not helping like I should, and you're going to pick up your phone to alleviate that. And then your kid's going to start crying. You're going to hand them back to her while she just needs five minutes in the shower by herself. 20 minutes in the shower alone. Please, God. And you're going to hand her the baby back and you're going back to your phone and back to your phone. Put your phone away and force yourself into that discomfort. Okay.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you ever been a dad before?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you ever been married to someone who just had a 2A. A two month old, had their body explode and had a two month old?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've been married to somebody before?

[Caller]

Oh, I thought you meant like this marriage. No, no, no, no. This is my first marriage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So will you do me a huge favor?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cut yourself some, some slack, man. Give yourself some grace.

[Caller]

Okay, I try.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know most men and I'm looking at myself here. Didn't even know enough to ask, how can I love you? What tasks need to be done. Maybe call two or three of your buddies and say, hey, what's 10 things I can do? Or call your buddies, wives that you're still close to. Call them and say, hey, I need 10 things that I need. I'm going to walk in the door every day after work and I'm going to, my phone's going to be away and I'm going to knock these things out. And by the way, you're going to wash the clothes. You're going to be like, dude, I'm going to do all the laundry and you're going to wash them with the wrong soap or whatever. And your wife's going to say, I can't believe you wash the wrong soap. You're going have to choose not take that personally and say, cool, learn something else. On to the next. You get what I'm saying? It's about showing up and just showing up and just showing up.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's so. It's so hard, man. So hard.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But the best, the best person to tell you how you can love her is her. And I promise all the men listening, if your wife knows I can't fully let myself be seen and known cuz my husband's going to take it personal and he's going to go into a temper tantrum or a shame spiral, whatever. They're going to stop telling you, they're going to stop letting themselves be seen and known. And when that happens, man, now y' all got real problems. And so I'm gonna have a group of guys that I complain with. I'm gonna have a group of guys that I ask questions to. I'm gonna have a group of my buddies, wives who can help me, like, hey, what are 10 things I need to be doing right now? Right now? And I'm gonna knock them out. I'm gonna be so tired. But she is too. We're both tired. And I'm going to keep grinding and grinding and grinding and me and my wife are going to have at least one touch point a week. How can I love you this week and your baby, your marriage, your wife. It will change that quickly in this season. It'll level out in several months and it will level out in several years. But right now, it's changing minute by minute. So, hey, I'm gonna hook you up, dude. I'm gonna send you and your and your wife the Together app for a year for free. Okay? So hang on the line, homie. I'm gonna hook you up. And it is just a small daily action back towards each other. One of them is to write a note of support and. And love for your spouse. I sat down at my desk this morning. I'm working on a writing project. I sat down, my wife had written the note and said it right there, dude. And it was. I can't tell you how awesome it was because me and my wife use the app too. So I'm gonna send it to you. And it's just a daily action, a small bid back to each other. And as we're finding out from folks who are using this app all over the country, it makes all the difference. And so hand the line. We're going to hook you up for it. If you interested in the Together app, go to the app store and download it. It's awesome. It's super inexpensive for you and your spouse. Super inexpensive. We did that intentionally and Android. Folks, we're on the way. We'll be right back. Every day on my Show I talk about boundaries. And listen. Boundaries are not about being mean. And boundaries are not about cutting everybody off. Boundaries are about being safe. And most of us do not have boundaries when it comes to sharing our data online. In fact, most of us don't even know that we are sharing it. We're actually not sharing it. It's being taken from us. And this is why I use and recommend Delete me. If someone can get online and find your home address, your phone number, pictures of your relatives, where your kids go to school. This should not just be a part modern life. This is your private life being sold in public. You would never let strangers walk through your house and start flipping through your photo albums, going through your phone and reading your mail. But that's what's happening online. Data brokers buy and sell your personal information to people you don't want having it. That's their whole business model. You, you're the product. Deleteme goes to these sites, removes your information and checks month after month to keep it gone. Delete me handles it, saving you tons of time and tons of hassles. Protect your digital boundaries. Go to join DeleteMe.com DeLoney for 20% off an annual plan. That's JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, let's go to H town and talk to Lynn. What's up, Lynn?

[Caller (Lynn)]

Hello.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up?

[Caller (Lynn)]

Well, they told me to keep it short to the point. So here's my question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go for it. What you got?

[Caller (Lynn)]

50 year old female, been with my husband 31 years, married 26. And he's been an alcoholic, a high, high functioning alcoholic the whole time. And he finally decided, after many years of me and my children begging him, whatever, we finally gave up and he can do his own thing. Then he decided he was going to go to rehab. So I took him to rehab and the whole way down there he was, you know, I just want us to get back together or reconnect. I just want you to love me and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's not been the deal. I've been living for ever and I kind of have moved on whether he's aware of it or not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean? What does that mean? Are you seeing somebody else?

[Caller (Lynn)]

Absolutely not. That is the last thing

[Dr. John DeLoney]

done with men.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I just, I'm, I don't need one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller (Lynn)]

So I, I have really lost, you know, lost respect for him a long time ago. And he's welcome to come home, he's welcome to be back in the house, he's welcome to Be, you know, there and everything. But my question to you, I guess, is, is it mean of me just to try to stay the status quo and stay the platonic marriage that we've had for the last however long, or should I? Is it mean and to expect that because I know he's going to want to expect something different when he gets back or do I just, you know, go ahead and give him a divorce so if he wants to move on, he can.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, it sounds like you've already

[Caller (Lynn)]

left him years ago. Yeah, it's only brand new information to him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But he was sick.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Do what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He was sick.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah, but there was a lot of in the meantime, I mean, like I said, he's high functioning, was able to keep his job, go to work every day and do. But years of, you know, him knowing he has a drinking problem and children asking him when they were as little as five and six to not drink and do. And me being 100% responsible, being the main breadwinner provider for our children, everything. And I get that he was sick, but, and this may make me sound bad after a while, you know, you don't care that they're sick.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so, so, so yes, to answer the question, for him to come home and for him to come home to somebody who you don't just not like him. You despise him. You despise what he's putting. You don't.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's worse. Let me say it's worse than despise.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I'm apathetic.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it. You don't even care.

[Caller (Lynn)]

No, I don't. Yeah, I'm completely apathetic. My children have really suffered. My son had a drug overdose a year ago and I have been begging for help with our son since he was little. And I was turned into the villain by him, with our son. And I had to go pick up our son and carry him out of the house, literally carry him like a baby, 21 years old and go to the emergency room to save his life. And my husband showed up for 20 minutes and I stayed in the hospital with them for three days and got him 5150 to take care of him. And this is how my life has been with. I have to take care of everything. And now that he wants to take care of his problem, now I'm supposed to flip the switch and be like,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

okay, no, not at all. I don't think that's what anyone is asking. I think you're mad that he's going to get help

[Caller (Lynn)]

well, yeah, because now it's costing me money again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen, listen, Lynn, your marriage has been over forever.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why won't you just like what you. What you're not owning here is that you have chosen every minute of this too.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Mm. Yes, I. I purposely did. When I had talked to my daughter when she was 14, I had taken her out for a girl's day, and I was gonna say, hey, you know, because I knew she would be the one to take it hard. And I approached divorcing her father and she lost it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know. But you outsourced your emotional. The next right thing, your emotional maturity onto a 14 year old girl. That was not fair.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yes. No, it wasn't. I look back at that and I know 100%. But I knew that if she could be okay with it, I could do it and we could move on and have a better life. And she melted down and I said, okay, that is not something you will ever have to worry about. Don't worry about that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, hold on. Do not. Lynn, do not put this on her.

[Caller (Lynn)]

No, I'm not. What I'm saying is I would have left a long, long time ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, but hold on. But you didn't. And here we are.

[Caller (Lynn)]

No.

[Caller]

Yes, here we are.

[Caller (Lynn)]

So here I am a lot of years later.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You feel like you have burned your life to the ground.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you feel like he kept putting kindling on the fire.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So until you get over your anger with. With yourself, until you take ownership of. I stayed. Ever. I stayed in the passenger seat on this. On this roller coaster. I. I could have got out at any time, but I chose to stay here. I chose to stay here.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yep. Yes, I did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And until you take co responsibility for the world y' all co created now, if he was on the phone. Hundred percent, he should have been there for his family, should have been there for his kids, should deal with drinking a long time ago.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And he didn't.

[Caller (Lynn)]

No, I was. I have my equal fair share.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay?

[Caller (Lynn)]

I was hard on my kids. I was everything else. So. No, the. They're 100%. I have been that way. Not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, but. But listen. If he was a stranger, just somebody you worked with, you would treat him with more grace and gratitude than you're treating him right now. If he was a homeless person on the side of the road in downtown Houston, and you talked to him for two minutes and they're like, hey, I just got out of recovery. I blew my whole family up. And I decided, like, I gotta be. I. I want more for their life. I want more for my life. You would high five them. But the fact.

[Caller (Lynn)]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The fact that you're mad that he's going to get help.

[Caller (Lynn)]

No, I'm not. I, I'm. I'm. I'm mad that it's too little, too late.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If that's the way you want to see it, then yes. It's cruel for you to welcome him back home and say, I'm still going to remain cut off. I'm not going to listen to your. To you walk through your guilt and your pain and your shame and regret. I will not be here for you. I haven't been here for you for years. You weren't here for me. Yes, that's cruel.

[Caller (Lynn)]

That's what I need to know. I mean, I do not wish him ill will. I do not wish anything bad for him at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't believe you. I think you.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I. I really don't. I really would love for him to have a wonderful life. I think we both cheated each other. I really do. I think he could have had a much better existence than I could have. And we both messed up by.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so it's blowing it up. Is ending it? Is that the best shot?

[Caller (Lynn)]

I don't. Okay, this sounds terrible. I don't have one ounce of respect for him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Not one ounce. He. There's nothing that he provides our family that I need. And I think he should work on his relationship with his kids and not worry about me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay? Like, you're. You've been divorced from him for a long, long, long time.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Long time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And your, Your feeling of superiority over him is. Yeah, it's going to be a tough shadow for him to heal out from underneath. Because you think you're so much better than him.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I will not disagree. Because of the stuff that's gone on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay?

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah, I know that. I know it's awful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, you're being honest. And I wanna. I wanna honor you for being honest, for telling the truth.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah, I. I think. I don't think that morally I'm a better person. I'm just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think you do. I mean, I mean, you showed up for your kids and he didn't. I would make a moral snap judgment on somebody in that situation.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah. And that's just many times. And that's why he said to me the other day when he called from rehab and said, you know, I called our daughter and she was just like, whatever. And she's very apathetic as well. My son is kind of like, well, just do what you got to do. And everybody. And he's like, he can't understand why we're all not, like, jumping for joy, patting him on the back. And it's like, we've been begging you for years. And so now that you were the one uncomfortable, now that you were the one struggling physically, and that's the only reason you chose to go. That's the reason you went. Not because of us, not because of your kids, not because of anything else, because you were physically struggling and the

[Dr. John DeLoney]

animosity baked into the stories you've made up about why he does what he does.

[Caller (Lynn)]

What do you mean?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I guess having spent my whole career sitting with folks struggling with addiction, losing everything, man, I've gotten mad and I've gotten pissed off, and I made some commitments to myself. I've got an addictive personality. I'm a pretty boring hang these days.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I've seen what it does on the other side.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, man, if I. I just. I have nothing but heartbreaking compassion for folks in the throes of addiction.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yes. And I have helped all my family members.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller (Lynn)]

All of them. And I've helped him the exact same way I've helped them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But. But right now. But listen to me. You're addicted to anger, and you're addicted to righteousness, and you're addicted to rage.

[Caller (Lynn)]

And I'm telling you, what I'm addicted to is the last three weeks have been the best three weeks I've had in a long time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. You've had peace.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yes. I'm not mad. I'm just. Don't. I'm. I'm too far past to go back to try to have a romantic relationship with him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller (Lynn)]

And so, you know, then I think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think the fair thing, not the fair. When I'm gonna talk about fear, I think a compassionate thing would do to do would be to let him know while he's surrounded by care and support.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because at least he could hear that news face to face from you. And then have a team of rehab specialists and sobriety specialists and hopefully mental and medical care, mental support and medical care around him.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, he metabolizes that. And by the way, part of treatment.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to hurt him. I don't want his life to be bad. I really don't. I. I know you think I do. I. I promise you I don't. I would love for him to go have a happy life if he found somebody else and Was thrilled and tickled. I would be tickled for him. I. I don't have. I don't hate him. I don't anything. I really do wish the best for him. As long as it doesn't include me doing more work for him like I've always been doing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I'm burnt out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I hear it. And. And I. I don't. I don't blame you for being burnt out. I don't blame you for being exhausted. I don't blame you for being mad.

[Caller (Lynn)]

So the best thing for me to do would be to tell him before he comes home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. I can't. I can't tell you what the next right move is for you. This is too messy. And.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're too mad. You're too angry. I. I can tell you.

[Caller (Lynn)]

I promise I'm not mad. I promise I'm not mad. I. I am.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can only tell you the most compassionate thing.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

By the way, I assure you, if that rehab program is worth its salt, is an inpatient program. How long is he gone for? 30 days? 60 days?

[Caller (Lynn)]

45.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

45. I promise you there'll be more self loathing going on in there than you can possibly wrap your head around.

[Caller]

Down.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Oh, yeah, I. And I don't want to add to it. I swear to God I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not about adding to it. It's not adding to it.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. It's not about that. He will have to learn there are some things when it comes to making amends. I have to make amends to somebody and I can't resp. I can't own how they choose to respond to it. And that might come with a ton of grief and heartache, okay? Guilt, shame, all that. What I'm telling you is the most compassionate thing for somebody as fragile as his situation is, would be to give him hard news while he's supported by care. And honestly, the most compassionate thing you could do would be to call his head person, the person in charge of the social worker in charge of his care, okay? And say, this is the decision I have made. I'm choosing this. When's the best time?

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you will not be the first person to have called the rehab facility to say, I'm filing.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay? Yeah. Okay. That's what I wanted to know is, is it bad just to let him come back and stay status quo the way we've been for 15 years?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It will be impossible.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He'll try to plug, he'll try to connect, which is what human beings do. And you will be shut off. And he'll go right back to either the old addictive behaviors that covered up a home and a life and a self that he couldn't connect to, or he'll find new ones.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay, well, that is exactly what I wanted to know. That is because, like I said, if he can get sober and stay sober, there's nothing better in the world for my children. Nothing. And so if. If I would be, you know, coming back, doing the same old, same old, and that would throw him back into bad behavior. That's not going to help my children because I. They're finally old enough. They're 22 and 25. They're. They know. They're now adults. They can deal with it if parents aren't together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate that it ends this way for y'. All.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Well, I tell you what, it. We should have never got married. But I did get my children out of it, so I'm thrilled with that. I. I'm not shocked that it's ending this way. So that was. My question is no. And you answered it. Don't come home to status quo. Because that if nothing changes, well, it's dishonest. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's cruel.

[Caller (Lynn)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So, yeah, I wish you guys the best in what you're doing. We'll be right back. Hey, let's talk about Helix. For years, I thought that sleep was for losers, for weak people. I just thought you had to push and push and push and snap into a slim gym and just keep ignoring sleep. And of course I crashed. It's nonsense. When you're exhausted, when you haven't slept well, everything feels heavier, harder, and more complex. Deep sleep is critical to your brain health, to your body's health, and. And to controlling wild emotional responses. If you got big feelings like me, one of the greatest things you can do for yourself is get good sleep. And when I finally started taking my sleep seriously, everything changed for me. And one of the big things that helped my sleep was switching to a Helix mattress. I've had mine for a couple of years now, and I track my sleep. Helix has made a huge difference in my deep sleep and especially in my REM sleep. Helix can also make a difference for you. Go online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes, and they're going to match you with the perfect mattress just for how you actually sleep. It ships straight to your door. You get 120 night sleep trial, and it's backed by a limited lifetime warranty. Go to helixsleep.com DeLoney and get 20 off site wide during their spring savings event. That's helixsleep.com DeLoney for 20 off. And be sure to tell them that you heard about their amazing mattresses right here on the Dr. John DeLoney show with a helix better sleep starts right now. All right, we're back.

[Caller (Lynn)]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Kelly.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Talk about that last call. What do you think?

[Kelly]

I think she's just done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I think she made that clear. Yeah.

[Kelly]

Yeah. But I don't necessarily see that she wants him to hurt him any or anything like that. I think she's past that because there comes a point when, when you're angry and you want to hurt somebody. There's still a passion there of some sort. She has passed that point because she has lived in 25 years. Yes. That she co created 100% and I think she took responsibility for that. But it's to the point now where it's like there comes a point when it's too little too late when you've gotten to a point you can't get past anymore that she's just done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, no, I, I, I 100 understand and agree with that. What I, what I don't, what I struggle with is folks who a which we talked about in the call. She asked her 14 year old's permission. I think that's never, that's a no go that I have a hard choice to make. I'm going to put on my kid. The, the call shifted. I, I felt shipped over time from I can't believe he's doing this now. Who does he think he is? After all these years of going through all this. Now he's gonna go get well and healed and okay. And, and maybe there's a tension there between I'm anger now. Angry now. Why now? And also when we have hard decisions to make. She looped all the way back to we should never even have gotten married. Well, now we're into some revisionist history. We're going all the way back. Right. And at the same time. Yeah, there's just a, a cruelty to. I got so mad this many years ago that I decided I'm just gonna plant my, plant my flag in the ground. My kids are going to base in this. He's going to base in this. I'm going to base in this and I'm going to get madder and madder and madder and, and to the point of. Yeah. Burning off the endings of all of my emotions and feelings to where I feel nothing except now I feel peace because he's out of the house, which I have no debt, no doubt about that. Right. And so I, I, I guess what I hate is I hate that it took getting here.

[Kelly]

Yeah. I definitely agree. And, you know, I also understand the. You keep thinking it'll change and you keep thinking it'll change, and you look

[Dr. John DeLoney]

up at 20 years have gone by. I get that.

[Kelly]

Right. And the kids are growing up and you're just trying to function and get through on a daily basis. And she probably spent a lot of time getting between him and the kids and trying to make everything better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It's been a mess forever.

[Kelly]

Yeah. And then like you said, you look up and it's been 20 years, and then it's like, now that I'm to this point, now you're getting help. It doesn't make it right, but I can see her feelings of, like, seriously?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Now. And the fact that I, you know, it kind of sounded like based on reading her email, that does he feel like, well, I'm getting help now, so everything will be better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's like, well, that's what people think. Day two and day three. Right. And then they get into it. Hopefully it's a good facility and a good team around him. But you get into it and you realize, oh, no, no, no. Everything is different now and everything is revealed. Right. They slowly peel the cataract of the wake of hurt and pain and damage you've caused all those that loved you and that you loved. And that's a heavy, overwhelming thing. I mean, that's, that's extraordinary. I just got a lot of compassion for people to carry that, and I have a ton of compassion for people who are trying to love people in the throes of addiction. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Yeah. It's just messy. Not every call in the show has a happy ending. This is a tough one. It's a tough one. And on those moments when you don't know what to do, or you're burnt out or you're fried or you're angry or whatever, or you're just done, that's the moments when I think we have to be intentional about choosing compassion, choosing kindness, and choosing dignity, even if other people haven't shown it. And I'm going to do the most gracious, I'm going to do the next hard, hard thing that I know is going to hurt you, but I'm going to do it in the most gracious, compassionate way I can. And I'm not going to do another 20 years of choosing this life with someone I don't have any feelings for and blame you for them. So, yeah, it's a tough one. Tough, tough, tough one. Good call. Good pick, Kelly. Way to bring up a room. Next show, Kelly's going to set me on fire just to see what it feels like. Love you guys. Bye.