My Life Has Unraveled Since My Divorce

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show – "My Life Has Unraveled Since My Divorce"

Episode Information:

• Title: My Life Has Unraveled Since My Divorce
• Host/Author: Ramsey Network (Dr. John DeLoney)
• Release Date: July 30, 2025

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Introduction

In this deeply engaging episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney addresses the complexities of post-divorce life, mental health challenges, and the path to personal healing. The episode features heartfelt conversations with two callers, Catherine and Rob, who share their struggles and seek guidance on rebuilding their lives and relationships after significant setbacks.

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Catherine's Journey: Navigating Divorce and Personal Healing

Timestamp: [00:21] – [15:00]

Caller: Catherine

Background: Catherine, a 35-year-old single and divorced woman, opens up about her tumultuous marriage marked by two miscarriages and the eventual breakdown of her relationship. Her husband’s inability to cope with another miscarriage led to increased conflicts, alcohol abuse, and emotional distance, culminating in their divorce a little over a year ago.

Key Points and Discussions:

• Emotional Rejection and Self-Worth:

  • John DeLoney expresses empathy: “The idea that somebody looked at you and said, because of your body, because of you, you are unlovable for me. What up?”
  • Catherine reveals her struggle with feeling unlovable and the deep-seated rejection she experienced from her ex-husband.

• Impact of Alcohol and Miscarriages:

  • Catherine discusses how alcohol became a coping mechanism during her marriage’s decline, exacerbating their issues.

• Path to Recovery:

  • She shares her journey towards better mental health through counseling, developing healthier relationships with spending and drinking, and setting boundaries by removing her ex-husband’s contact information.
  • John highlights: “Have you forgiven yourself?” leading Catherine to acknowledge her partial self-forgiveness and ongoing battle with shame.

• Inner Demons and Longing for Family:

  • Catherine expresses a profound longing for marriage and motherhood, grappling with the fear that her current life might be her final chapter.

• Childhood Trauma and Its Effects:

  • Catherine recounts her difficult childhood, witnessing her parents' broken marriage and her father's betrayal, which instilled in her a belief that divorce is detrimental.
  • John notes: “Nine-year-olds aren't supposed to carry their households,” emphasizing the undue responsibilities Catherine felt as a child.

• Steps Towards Self-Love and Contentment:

  • Catherine has made significant strides in self-care, including quitting alcohol and establishing personal rules to maintain her well-being.
  • Notable Quote: “[10:02] John DeLoney: Because I'm worth it.”
  • Dr. DeLoney encourages Catherine to embrace her self-worth and continue the journey of self-love, recognizing the slow but steady progress she has made.

• Releasing Grief and Forgiveness:

  • Dr. DeLoney advises Catherine to hold ceremonies or write letters to let go of her grief over miscarriages and her marriage, highlighting the importance of forgiving herself to move forward.
  • John advises: “Let that woman off the hook because you're still beating her up trying to move forward in your life.”

Insights and Conclusions: Catherine’s story underscores the profound impact of marital breakdowns and personal losses on mental health. Dr. DeLoney emphasizes the necessity of self-forgiveness, intentional self-improvement, and the courage to embrace new beginnings despite lingering fears. By addressing both past traumas and present desires, Catherine is encouraged to find contentment in her current life while remaining open to future possibilities.

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Rob's Redemption: Rebuilding Trust After Infidelity

Timestamp: [34:29] – [46:19]

Caller: Rob

Background: Rob shares his harrowing experience of discovering his wife’s emotional and physical infidelity just before their two-year anniversary. Despite the betrayal, Rob chose to rebuild his marriage with the help of friends, family, and church support. While their relationship has improved, Rob continues to struggle with trust and controlling tendencies, fearing past mistakes might resurface.

Key Points and Discussions:

• Initial Betrayal and Decision to Rebuild:

  • Rob recounts the devastation of his wife’s affair and his commitment to salvaging their marriage, leading to a significantly improved relationship over the past year and a half.
  • Rob states: “Our marriage is currently better than it's ever been. However, dude, I feel like a wreck sometimes.”

• Ongoing Struggles with Trust and Control:

  • Despite progress, Rob feels insecure and often reacts by trying to control situations, such as tracking his wife’s location, which only exacerbates his anxiety.

• Seeking Guidance:

  • Rob questions whether his need for recognition and his controlling behaviors are justified or merely manifestations of his ego.
  • John reassures Rob: “You're not crazy. This is the repairing and rebuilding process.”

• Dr. DeLoney’s Advice:

  • Letting Go of Control:

    • John advises: “Take her tracking location off your phone. ... risk getting hurt that badly again or you're just going to turn into a glorified third parent for her.”
    • He emphasizes the importance of relinquishing controlling behaviors to foster genuine trust.

  • Embracing Vulnerability:

    • Rob is encouraged to embrace discomfort and take risks in rebuilding trust, understanding that occasional setbacks are part of the healing process.
    • John suggests: “Have some sort of thing with just you and your wife where you show her your phone and you say, I feel like I have become in my soul, your dad.”

  • Intentional Reconnection:

    • Establishing regular, intentional times for celebration and accountability within the marriage is crucial.
    • John recommends: “Put on a calendar and say Sunday night, Sunday morning, Saturday afternoon... Have time in that meeting for celebration time and accountability time.”

  • Developing Healthy Communication Habits:

    • Rob is encouraged to create pre-written responses or behaviors to manage moments of anxiety, such as calling his wife directly instead of relying on tracking or social media.
    • John advises: “Carry a note card with you. ... Tell her I'm not going to track you, but I will call.”

Notable Quotes:

• From Rob:

  • “[34:33] Rob: I've been really intentional and growing and taking better care of myself.”
  • “[41:30] Rob: I don't like that advice, but it's needed, and I recognize the wisdom of it.”

• From Dr. John DeLoney:

  • “[38:24] John DeLoney: ... You're not crazy. ... you are a person. That just means you're a person. That means you're a human being.”
  • “[43:27] John DeLoney: You're not gonna like it. And people listening are gonna. ... Are you ready?”

Insights and Conclusions: Rob’s narrative highlights the tumultuous journey of rebuilding trust after infidelity. Dr. DeLoney provides practical strategies focused on relinquishing control, fostering open communication, and embracing vulnerability to heal and strengthen the marital bond. The conversation underscores that rebuilding a relationship is an ongoing process that requires consistent effort, self-awareness, and mutual commitment.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Dr. John DeLoney offers compassionate and actionable advice to callers grappling with the aftermath of divorce and infidelity. Through Catherine and Rob’s stories, listeners gain valuable insights into the importance of self-forgiveness, intentional self-improvement, and the delicate balance of trust and vulnerability in healing relationships. Dr. DeLoney’s empathetic approach and practical strategies serve as a guiding light for those seeking to navigate the complexities of personal and relational restoration.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Catherine:
   • “[10:02] John DeLoney: Because I'm worth it.”
   • “[10:07] Catherine: Because I'm worth it.”
2. John DeLoney:
   • “[02:20] John DeLoney: Anyone who would do that or say that or walk away from somebody in the depth of pain like that...”
   • “[14:17] Catherine: Oh man.”
   • “[43:07] John DeLoney: Because you're a year and a half in. You say you could feel it. You could say you kind of have a sense.”
3. Rob:
   • “[34:29] Rob: ... My wife had a little bit of a break, that's to put it mildly, and she ended up having an affair.”
   • “[41:30] Rob: I don't like that advice, but it's needed, and I recognize the wisdom of it.”

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided and indicate where specific discussions or quotes occur within the episode.

Transcript

[John DeLoney]

Big news. New dates for money and marriage Getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get [e-mail] events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Catherine]

I'm 35 and single and divorced. We had two miscarriages. My husband, he didn't want to deal with another miscarriage again. I didn't think we should be parents together.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, go God, man. The idea that somebody looked at you and said, because of your body, because of you, you are unlovable for me. What up?

[Michael]

What's up?

[John DeLoney]

This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on. On your life, on your mental and emotional health, your relationships, whatever you got going on. Squat to Chicago, Illinois and talk to Catherine with a C. Thank God. What's up, Catherine?

[Catherine]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[John DeLoney]

Of course. What's up?

[Catherine]

So I was just going to start with my question and then just give you, like, a brief history, I guess. Is that okay?

[John DeLoney]

That's however you want to do it. Let's just. Just cannonball.

[Catherine]

All right, so my question is this. How can I be content with how my life is now? I'm 35 and single and divorced when I long to be a wife and a mother. So I've been divorced a little over a year. And it was not a great marriage. We had two miscarriages. And then I found out why I was miscarrying with my husband, meeting me with that. He didn't want to deal with another miscarriage again. I didn't think he. We should be parents together.

[John DeLoney]

Oh, God.

[Catherine]

And then. Yeah, I mean, that was a while ago now, but.

[John DeLoney]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That one's not just a while ago thing.

[Catherine]

Yeah. I mean, it was like three years ago.

[John DeLoney]

I know, but the idea that somebody looked at you and said you were. Because of your body, because of you, you are unlo.

[Catherine]

Yeah, It's a lot more than that, too.

[John DeLoney]

Of course it is.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

That any. Anybody in that world, I mean, anyone who would do that or say that or walk away from somebody in the depth of pain like that, that always happens in a context way more than just that moment.

[Catherine]

Yeah. I mean, I was met with a lot of rejection in my marriage. Pretty much from there, it was just like fighting. And then, I'll be honest, like, alcohol was a big factor in our marriage. We both had problems with it, and it really just got worse, honestly, after my second miscarriage.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, it Works, right. Like if you don't have a partner that's sitting with you.

[Catherine]

A lot of other problems, but.

[John DeLoney]

Well, it does, but I mean it, it. If you don't have somebody who is sitting with you as you sob because you think something's wrong with your body. I've sat by my wife three different times, three different miscarriages. I, I mean, and I, trust me, I screwed it up. I'm not perfect. God, I was a train wreck in what I said, but I didn't leave. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, somebody bails on you in that moment. Yeah. Alcohol will prop you up. It'll destroy everything, but it'll prop you up, right?

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. God, I'm so sorry.

[Catherine]

Anyway, so yeah, then we had a lot of fighting and just I really over time discovered that my ex husband was pretty selfish and emotionally absent for me and I didn't react great and that just kind of led to him divorcing me. His dad actually had a medical crisis right before he filed and, and I during the divorce and like a little bit after I self medicated with alcohol and shopping. But now I'm doing better on that. I've been getting mental health support and I have a much healthier relationship with how I spend and with drinking. But I do catch myself sometimes still reaching out to my ex husband. And this guy had been seeing for a few months without response. So I've taken steps now to where I've deleted their contacts and no longer. So hopefully that'll set a boundary for me to keep from reaching out. But anyway, I found myself now in a place where I just. And I'm in a place where I never thought it would be. I thought I'd be married with three kids by now, you know, so I'm just longing for a partner and children right now and trying to find joy in my life currently.

[John DeLoney]

Man. I'm sorry, Catherine. Like, I'm just, I'm sorry, have I just wrote down you said you've have a better relationship with alcohol, a better relationship with spending. Have you forgiven yourself?

[Catherine]

Yeah, I have a lot. I carry a lot of shame, honestly from my marriage. I think I'm like halfway there.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Catherine]

I'm just like learning to like appreciate and love myself for like how I am now. But it's just like I feel like so much is tied up in like the longing for wanting to be married and being married and it not working out at all and kind of being pregnant. But yeah, then that didn't work out either.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

So I Feel like it's like I had like a, a glimmer or glimpse of all that and then it's like snatched from me. And now it's like I really want those things still. But I know I have to be content and find joy in my life now because, you know, this could be it. And that's really scary.

[John DeLoney]

But I, I, I, I don't.

[Catherine]

Reality, I don't.

[John DeLoney]

I don't think your premises are all. I think your algorithm is messed up. And what I mean by that is your A plus B plus C doesn't necessarily equal the answer you've given yourself. Okay.

[Catherine]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

So walk me all the way back. Tell me about Catherine's life as a, as a nine year old little girl.

[Catherine]

Oh boy. Well, I come from a broken household. My dad and my mom, I'm sure they had a lot of marriage issues before he cheated on her and left. We have, you know, have a financial relationship now and I, and I mean I have a relationship with my dad now, but growing up as rough, I carried a big burden that, you know, divorce is bad and that my dad was this horrible person. And you know, I should have had counseling as a child, but I think I maybe went one time. But you know, that's back in the 90s where mental health was not what it is now.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. What was your relationship like with your mom?

[Catherine]

I love my mom, she's great. We have a great relationship now. Growing up.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, growing up.

[Catherine]

Yeah, growing up. There's a lot of judgment. I had a lot of judgment on me and then I internalized that and I still do.

[John DeLoney]

Right.

[Catherine]

Where I was always trying to be perfect and keep it together. I felt like I was kind of responsible for my mom's happiness.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, you, because you were.

[Catherine]

The divorce hurt her so much and she told me a lot.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Too much probably.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Nine year olds aren't supposed to carry their households and nine year old little girls aren't supposed to feel responsible for their dad leaving. And if their dad does cheat on their mom and blows up their house, dads are supposed to make sure their 9 year old little girls feel as loved as humanly possible in that chaos and mess. Because those are grown up problems, not little kid problems.

[Catherine]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

Until you can exhale and say I'm worth being loved. No. No husband, no kids, no dollar amount, no job. No. None of that stuff's going to fill that gap. And most of the time I found that people have to exhale and decide, I want to believe that. And then this is where it gets a Dicey, you have to go do things for yourself that prove to yourself you're worthy of loving you. And here's what's awesome. I think you do some of those things. You quit drinking?

[Catherine]

Yeah, for the most part.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Catherine]

I have rules in place where I can only, you know, like, I can only have a drink or two with people that are gonna, you know, hold me accountable. I don't keep it in the house.

[John DeLoney]

So do you. Do you keep your promises to yourself?

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, so answer the question. Why. Why do you keep your promises to yourself now?

[Catherine]

Because I'm worth it.

[John DeLoney]

There you go. Why'd you go to counseling?

[Catherine]

Because I'm worth it.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, there you go. And so you're doing these things, and they don't feel like it every day, but here's. It's kind of like being, you know. Have you ever seen somebody that you went to high school with and they've gained or lost a whole bunch of weight, and you see them, you're like, oh, God. Like, you. Like, oh, God, wow, like, you look great or, oh, God, wow, like, what happened? You know what I mean? But for them, it happened minute by minute, day by day. And I think there's some pretty cool things going on in your life right now that you could pan back from and say, I am slowly, minute by minute, decision by decision, day by day, proving to myself that I think I'm worth being loved. So the. The big secret of meeting somebody new, somebody forever is just choosing to work on yourself really well and putting yourself in positions where you can run into people and risk getting hurt so bad again. And your dad hurt you, your mom hurt you, your husband crucified you. Even your body's betrayed you. And now we're gonna go out again. That's the only path. That's the only way to do it. And there's joy in that, but there's not. It's not fun. It's not contentment. You're not happy. Right? But it's joy because it's the next right move, even when it's uncomfortable. It's like being in the gym, and you're doing a really hard workout, and it hurts, and it's painful, and it sucks, and you're joyful because you are taking steps for you, because you're worth that time in the gym. So how do you be content? I don't know that you can be content not having a thing that you want, especially something as amazing as motherhood, as amazing as finding a partner. And anyone who tells you otherwise is Lying to you. Right. And there's a whole ecosystem you've probably tried to get a part of that will tell you like, no, you just be you bro. Like, you know what I mean? Like. And I think that's disingenuous. Yeah, it's disingenuous. But there's joy in doing the next right step for future you. And so let me say this. If you haven't had a funeral for those two babies that you lost, consider doing that and don't do it by yourself, do it with a friend or two. Yeah. And if you had names for them, I don't care if it was three years ago or five years ago, your body will hold on to grief forever until you metabolize it.

[Catherine]

There weren't any names. It was put there pretty early.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. If you haven't had a funeral for your marriage, what was, what should still be and what isn't anymore? If you haven't written, how old are you now?

[Catherine]

I'm 35.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. If you haven't written 30 year old Catherine a letter saying I forgive you for doing what you did to survive in a messy marriage, in a time of profound grief, like let that, let that woman off the hook because you're still beating her up trying to move forward in your life.

[Catherine]

Yeah, I just felt like, you know, I contributed to it too. It wasn't just my ex husband.

[John DeLoney]

That's what I'm saying. You got to forgive her. Like there like, like there's no mistake. You did dumb stuff, right? You did survival stuff. You made choices that that 35 year old Catherine wouldn't make again. We all have, every single one of us.

[Catherine]

Absolutely right.

[John DeLoney]

And by continuing to punch and wail on that person while you're trying to move forward and find somebody new, it's just like ah, it's, there's a tension there that can't be resolved until you just make peace. 30 year old Catherine did what she did. She survived. Here we are. I'mma forgive her then I'm looking forward because now I'm going to start thinking about 45 year old Catherine, what that life's going to look like.

[Catherine]

Oh man.

[John DeLoney]

But see, you're looking at it with fear instead of joy, instead of opportunity, instead of potential instead of could be. Because all your eyes are focused back on how much pain there's been. There's been a lot.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Is that fair?

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Hang on the line. Catherine. I'm going to send you a copy of two books. Own your past, change your future and building a non anxious life Both of those were number one books that I wrote. I'm going to send them to you for free and I want you to work through them. The second one is a road map. It's a roadmap book. But I want you to begin to put yourself back out there because you're worth it. You're worth being loved. We come back. A man wonders how he can express his discouragement to his wife. Yo, yo, it's Deloney here for organifi. Every single day of my life, I talk to people who are stressed out to the max. They're anxious, they're not sleeping well, they're disconnected and they're grumpy. And most everyone I talk to is trying to fix their life with this cocktail of comfort food or caffeine or white knuckling or scented candles or all of it. Can we all just agree that what we're trying to do is not working? And that's where organifi comes in. Organifi superfood products are made to help you feel better. More energy, less stress, less jitters, and helping give you some better sleep. And all of this gives your body what it needs without all of the artificial nonsense. Case in point, I love my organifi happy drops. The little gummies made with all natural ingredients that have a positive effect on mood and emotional well being. They're loaded with things like saffron, which help your brain and it releases happy chemicals. So great. In fact, there are clinical studies showing that people who take saffron have improved social relationships even, and that other studies show that saffron can help you lift your mood. And I get all of that in a gummy, which I super love. Organifi also mix green juice and red juice blends. You just mix them with water and then you're ready to rock and roll. Listen. I can talk about ingredients and clinical studies all day long, but here's the best endorsement I can give you. I use organifi every single day. Family members of mine take organifi. I travel with it, I take it home. And I want you to give organifi a try to go to Organifi.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 20% off your entire order. That's 20% off everything with code [e-mail] DeLoney everything is about technology and digital footprints and people having all your information but you don't even know it. Does that terrify you? Every email you send, every text message you send, every website you go to listen, that's Why I got to tell you about my friends that Delete Me. Do you feel kind of like I do that? Our digital footprints, the emails we go, the websites we go to, the apps we use, are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right back to us. Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a ph, where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you or pretending that they want to help you out.

[Michael]

You.

[John DeLoney]

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[Michael]

Hey, John, what's up? How you doing, man?

[John DeLoney]

Great. How are you, man?

[Michael]

I'm good. Thanks for having me back on.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I'm glad you're. I'm glad you came back, dude. What, What. What's going on these days?

[Michael]

Yeah, so since my wife and I were on the show pretty recently, since we were on and really since we had the whole blow up that kind of brought us there in the first place. I've been really intentional and growing and taking caring better of myself.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Michael]

Not just, not just for the marriage, but, you know, for my own well being. Yeah, it's kind of been a common theme at times and trying to be very, very intentional about it.

[John DeLoney]

Can I just tell you I'm proud of you for that. That's a tough change, you know? That's a tough change.

[Michael]

Yeah. And what's going on right now is where we're at. It kind of feels like the. My wife really only sees me through this lens of my past issues, things that I've, you know, messed up on in the past. And any progress that I've made tends to get overlooked by, like, lingering resentment. Hmm. And I'm wondering, is there a healthy way to express that I'm feeling discouraged, like, I'm working hard, and I'm not really seeing these results? Or is this more or less my ego just wanting recognition? And where do I kind of draw that line?

[John DeLoney]

You know, it's funny you. You asked this question now, dude. So I was just working on a marriage retreat yesterday and working through. It's just. It's. It's a whole weekend thing that we work through, and I was just. And I'm working on a book right now, and. Or the very beginning of a book where I start throwing everything at the wall. But one of the things that keeps coming up over and over and over again is this idea that partners need to celebrate each other, and they need to hold each other accountable, which is important. And we need to be able to hear accountability, but we need to be able to celebrate each other. And I think that's very important. And I remember a cornerstone moment in, like, a before and after moment in my life was my wife and I were deciding whether we were going to stay married. I remember saying, I just need you to say you're proud of me. And I felt. I told her. I was like, I feel embarrassed that I have to say that I feel embarrassed that I. That I want that from you. And. But it was an important thing to put on the table, so. No, I don't think you're crazy. I can. I. I believe you. That you're working really hard and that you're being really intentional, and you're not crazy for wanting your wife to say, I see this. I see the progress you're making. I'm really proud of you, especially if it's met with just continued criticism. The same as before. Right.

[Michael]

Right.

[John DeLoney]

So when you say you. You are just being met with resentment over and over again. Tell me more about that.

[Michael]

Well, the conversations that we have on this subject, when we have time to actually have them, it's definitely apparent that we're working really hard to acknowledge and respect each other and be very clear that we see what the other person is doing, and we, you know, we appreciate the Work that the other person is doing. We once read this book about, like, the 8080 marriage.

[John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Michael]

She may be familiar with.

[John DeLoney]

I know that book. Yeah.

[Michael]

Yeah. So we had used that kind of as like a baseline a while ago, and I've kind of made my way back to that. And what it's feeling like for me right now is when I go a really, really long time with, making sure I'm very fair with things that I say and I'm considering things that I do before I do them and how it's going to affect her or how it's going to affect our marriage and really try to be intentional about this. A lot of time can go by where we're in a really, really good place and when we get to either time to be alone together or time for me to say, hey, I'm going to go do this thing with my friends today or tonight. A lot of these past issues come up where she may not trust me or she may not think that I'm going to behave myself, but not like in an. I mean, I'm not having affair or anything like that, but in a way that is like, hey, have you noticed what. How much I've been trying these last months?

[John DeLoney]

How did she. How does she bring those things up to you? Like, let's, let's. Let's play out a scenario. Hey, honey, the guys are getting the fights tonight. And so I'm going to go over to so and so's house and we're going to watch the fights. What does she say to you?

[Michael]

It's more of trying to. How do I phrase this? It's trying to show me that she's not comfortable with it.

[John DeLoney]

How. How. Give me a very specific example of how she shows you she's not comfortable with it.

[Michael]

Of maybe she says, let's say that she'd rather me stick around. Sure. She'd rather me, you know, not go hang with this group of guys. Or she'd rather me, you know, well, make sure that I've, you know, remembered what I've done in the past and any stupid mistakes that I've made, and she's going to bring them back up and say, well, I'm not crazy about this because of what happened. X, Y, and Z, which I, in turn, completely understand and respect. I also want to then bring up like, that was a long time ago and things have changed. And there's one incident in particular that involves. Let's just say it involves gambling when I was out for a trip in Las Vegas and how long ago, three years, give or take.

[John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Michael]

And it still very much fits with her. And I understand that I had hurt her, and I understand that there's a lot of work that goes into, you know, not fixing that, but trying to heal it.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah. So here's. Here's your path back. Okay. The first thing is you mentioned early on in this call, when we ever have time, which we usually don't, to have these kind of conversations, that's big red flag for me, number one, because what you're both trying to do is reset your default setting. Because if you say, hey, I want to go out tonight with the boys. And she said, and she's thinking, I want to make, like, wild, crazy love to my husband tonight. Anything she says to you, you're going to hear it as, oh, my gosh, here we go again. And the other flip side of that is, hey, I want to go out with the guys. She hears that as, oh, here we go. Right. So what we want to do here is reset our default setting. And that just takes time. But the way to hack that time is to ask for very clear path. And here's what I mean, honey, since we had that phone call with Deloney back in May, and since I've been trying to be really intentional, the gambling thing that happened back in Vegas, and by the way, you are going to put this directly on the table. It has come up several times. I'm interested in a path back to you to where I can go spend time with my friends. And it doesn't always bring that back. Back up.

[Michael]

Yeah. What.

[John DeLoney]

What must I do?

[Michael]

I want to be earn your trust spending that time. Say, I want to be spending that time with her, too, and have her clearly forgiving me.

[John DeLoney]

I know, but. But you. But you know, the forgiveness isn't. Is a series of actions. It's not just a light switch.

[Michael]

Sure. Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And so you ask for a path. What's the path you want me to not take? My phone so I can't gamble online. Cool. Do you want me to, like, what does that look like? And if she says, well, I just don't know. I just don't know. I want you to be clear. I would really love a path because I know that I will never do that again, ever. But I want you to be able to have your shoulders down and exhale when you're at home. And in many cases, that's a choice that she has to make. You get what I'm saying? It's a choice for you to never gamble again. It's A choice for you to not violate her trust in Vegas or fill in the blank. It's a choice for you to not text your co worker back. It's a like what I'm. And I'm just. I'm speaking you as the universal you now to any of our listeners, it's a choice to not drink anymore. Now look at pornography again. But also if your partner says I want you back and I want to make this thing work, they have to make choices to re establish trust in you also, which means they have to feel their discomfort when you go without to the. With the guys and watch the fights and they have to exhale and they have to give you. I want you to check in with me every hour. Okay. I want you to leave your phone at home so you won't gamble online. Okay. I want you to look me in the eye and promise I will not gamble as I walk out the door. I won't drink or I won't look at pornography, whatever. The thing is.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And then I think this would be fantastic to do is to set up a. Like, this can't be a when when it just happens because you're being really intentional about your health, you're being intentional about your emotional well being, your physical well being. You. You have to be intentional about time together. And so the only way I know how to do that for busy couples is to put on a calendar and say Sunday night, Sunday morning, Saturday afternoon, Saturday mornings. And by the way, in some seasons in my marriage, it's been Saturday morning, some it's been Sunday night, some it's been Wednesday. Like, it just, it shifts and alters depending on kids and life and work and all that kind of stuff. But having time in that meeting, we're gonna have celebration time. What are two or three things you've seen in me and what are two or three things I've seen in you? We're gonna have accountability time. What are two or three things that you're feel strugg you're still struggling with? That I'm still struggling with. Let's talk about them. And it's going to be uncomfortable. We might get in a fight. Okay, fine. We're gonna put on the table, but now we're at the, at the clarity point. You get what I'm saying?

[Michael]

I do, yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And it might be a, this might be a cheesy thing, but literally go over to Walgreens and get glasses, get silly ones. So this whole thing feels a little bit lighter than it needs to be, but get ones that are like 0.5 or 0.05 or that are clear glasses that have no, like, magnification to them, but it's just this action. I'm going to put these on, and I'm going to look at you with a different set of lenses. I'm going to intentionally celebrate you. But what that is is just a conscious practice that when I'm looking at every single thing my partner's doing all of the time, and I'm looking for ways they might be doing things that they did wrong in the past, it's a very critical set of glasses that somebody's wearing. And that's fair and good. But if I want to have a healthy, whole marriage, I also have to, regardless of what has happened, if I've chosen to stay in, I've chosen to rebuild something new. I have to put on a new set of glasses and consciously look for where's my partner, however small, taking tiny steps towards a new future. The new thing we're building together. And I got to be intentional about looking for it. Because your default setting might be everything's negative. Everything's negative, everything's negative. And what we want to do is slowly, over time, shift to, my gosh, look how amazing. And that means she's gonna have to will be willing to get hurt again that you went and violated trust. And spoiler alert, you will hurt her again one day, multiple times, and vice versa. The goal will be, do we have paths back? Do we know how to repair after we hurt each other? That's just part of it. Intentionally, unintentionally, etc. But I want you to sit down and say, okay, we have to start being intentional about our time together. Intentional about celebration, intentional about when I go out to the guys, this keeps coming up. I would like a path back on this particular issue so that we can begin to change your default setting. And if your partner says, I'll never forgive you, I'll never forget what you did to me, y' all have to have a deeper conversation. Because your partner, regardless of what they are saying, has no interest in rebuilding something new. They just are interested in keeping you chained to that old thing that you did out in the front yard so that they can never get hurt again. And unfortunately, you can't rebuild, you can't repair, you can't build something new. And that's the way it is. Hope that helps my brother. I, I, I think there has to be a place where you can express discouragement, where you can say out loud, okay, here's what I've been feeling the last week. How about you? Here's what I've been doing the last week. How about you? And are we slowly but surely working towards a new future? And by the way, you've been working hard for a month or two. This process takes time and there's usually one big important meeting and it feels so good and so big. There's actually a whole bunch of conversations that happen week by week, sometimes day by day over time. Thanks for the call, my brother. When we come back, a man asks how to mend relationships or buy an affair. It is the middle of summer and I gotta talk about Cozy Earth. All right, so hearing the term nine to five, it's a drag. It makes most of us think of bosses with coffee breath or those co workers that have no boundaries or trying to work from home in the summer with kids running around acting bonkers. Listen, that's why Cozy Earth in the hottest time of the year wants to make your 5 to 9 the time that matters most. The most comfortable. Drop your shoulders relaxing part of your day. Cozy Earth is a big part of how my wife and I make our home warm and cozy. My wife gets into her cozy Earth PJs as early as possible without being weird. And I love in the summertime my cozier T shirts and pants because they're soft and breathable and also they're tough. They survive my front yard wrestling matches with my daughter and my long jogs with my son. Plus, my whole family loves Cozy Earth's temperature regulating sheets. They naturally wick away moisture and heat from your body to help all of us sleep several degrees cooler. Cozy Earth is so confident that they offer a 100 night sleep trial and you can try them during the hottest nights of the year. And if you don't love them, you can return them hassle free. And of course, Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all bedding products which makes for a decade of gray sleep. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 40% off their bestselling temperature regulating sheets, apparel and more. Trust me, you're going to feel the difference the very First Night. That's cozyearth.com DeLoney and code DeLoney to save 40% off sleep cooler lounge lighter. Stay cozy. All right, Atlanta, Georgia. Let's talk to Rob. What's up Rob?

[Rob]

Hey Dr. John. How are you doing today?

[John DeLoney]

I'm good brother. What about you ma'?

[Michael]

Am?

[Rob]

I am great. I've had a productive morning. I did have an energy Drink a little early into the day, so I am wired, but I'm happy to be here.

[John DeLoney]

Hey, me too. I'm drinking my buddy Chris Williamson's new tonic drink and this thing makes me feel like a laser beam, man. So it's awesome. Here's a free plug. They don't produce the show but. Or they don't sponsor the show, but this stuff's amazing, man, so. Me too, man. I am fully loaded. So what's up?

[Rob]

Yeah, so I am in a, I guess, unique situation for me. My wife and I have been married about three and a half years. Two years in, on the dot. It happened actually the night before our two year anniversary. My wife had a little bit of a break, that's to put it lightly, and she ended up having an affair. There was an emotional affair that had gone on for months before that that I was very much aware. And you know, we would talk about it, it would go away, it would come back up. And then I think it all boiled over in a physical affair with a completely different guy, basically a stranger. The night before our two year anniversary. So obviously that blew our lives up. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to walk through in my life. And that was about a year and a half ago. But I made the decision of we are going to double down. And at the end of, at the end of the day when I go and meet my maker, I want to say we gave it all we had and man, it's worked really well since then. Through a combination of friends, family pouring into us, people from church, literal, just miracles. I didn't think we'd be here. Our marriage is currently better than it's ever been. However, dude, I feel like a wreck sometimes. I. I'm just tired and I think I'm struggling with a lot of trust. Things that I know in my head I can go a little bit easier. But I just feel like I'm really stepping in and trying to control everything. And I don't know if that's a place out of insecurity. You know, there's always that voice in my head that is like life is always going to be different. And I think, I know that the perspective I have to have is I can't view it as we're trying to fix an old relationship. We have a new one. It's just tough, dude.

[John DeLoney]

Yeah, I. I mean, yeah. Can I ask you a couple of hard questions?

[Rob]

Absolutely.

[John DeLoney]

So how often are you driving down the road on the way to work and you're at a stoplight and Boom. An image pops into your mind of her with that guy.

[Rob]

Honestly, man, almost never. Okay, hold on.

[John DeLoney]

Let me keep asking questions. How often does she leave? I don't know, something in, in the sink and you walk by and you go to insta rage, like you just find yourself like, oh my gosh, like disproportionately getting mad.

[Rob]

I wouldn't say that specific scenario. However, I do frequently have moments where I think normal, like marital stuff will come up. And it just flips a switch on me where I'm like, why did I fight for this?

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Okay, let me tell you, like, as directly as I can, you're not crazy.

[Rob]

I appreciate that.

[John DeLoney]

You're not nuts. This is the repairing and rebuilding process. Because here's what, here's what's crazy. If you, you're. You've been married three and a half years now.

[Michael]

Yep.

[John DeLoney]

Pulling the affair out, pretend that never happened. You would be having moments where you ask yourself, why did I get married?

[Rob]

Sure.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

And people, People think if they have that thought, if they have a week of that thought, if they, if they are like, why did I do this? Or you run into an ex girlfriend somewhere and you just wonder like, oh my gosh, she's still beautiful, that suddenly you're a bad person. You're not a good person of your faith, your marriage, you never should. Got me. All that is nonsense. That just means you're a person. That means you're a human being. So I want to give you some peace. Those thoughts. Why did I even fight for this? I had a chance to get out with my faith. I had a chance to get out. All my friends and family would have been like, oh, hell yeah, get out of here, dude. And I stuck it out. All of those feelings and thoughts are normal. What matters is what's the next right move you make? Are you taking actionable steps both in the thoughts you choose to think, in the thoughts you choose to meditate on, and in the next loving action you take? And are you working towards building the life that you and your wife have decided we want to co create together, that we want to build anew?

[Rob]

Yeah, I. I would like to answer that and say yes, but I think where my struggle comes up is, dude, I'll just have things that'll set me off. Like, I think I have a really good example from yesterday.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, go for it.

[Rob]

I had a phenomenal day yesterday. Great work day, was super productive. Got a lot done. I got a lot of positive feedback from stuff. My wife and I were communicating well. The Entire day I go home, I'm waiting on her to come home. And just out of curiosity, I was going to do some chores around the house, so I went up and I tracked her location on my phone. I saw that she was probably five minutes from the house, so I thought, oh, that's great. I can get all this stuff done. Like, 10 minutes go by, she's not there. Just sheerly out of curiosity, I open my phone again, and she's suddenly across town. And, dude, that made me shut down.

[John DeLoney]

Okay, stop. Stop right there. Stop right there.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

Completely and totally rational, normal and okay. It doesn't make you a bad husband. It doesn't mean you're broken. Doesn't mean this, this. This attempt to rebuild is somehow going wrong. It's all good. I would have felt the exact same thing. I've been married to the same person for 23 years into my knowledge. She's never cheated on me. And I would have had that same, like, what's happening? Where's she going? What's. What's going on here? And if I was a year and a half out of her just going off the rails like Randy Rhodes style and hooking up with a stranger, of course you would have that. Of course.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

So let's pause. What's the. What's the next thing you did?

[Rob]

Honestly, man, it, like, I kind of just turned into a zombie.

[Michael]

Like, that's it? Yeah, that's it.

[Rob]

Like, those moments, whenever they come up, it's like I've never. I've been a pretty emotionally level dude my entire life. I'm a super glass house full person, but it. It really did just, like, throw off the rest of my day. And, you know, in the end, she just decided to get gas and took the wrong exit. That's all it was. And I do trust her, you know, like, since everything happened, I've got, you know, like, all her social media on my phone. She offered that up, like. And I'm not silly enough to think that a grown adult, you know, couldn't hide something from another, but I know in my head that nothing's going on. Because, I mean, in all reality, when stuff was going on, I could just feel it in my soul, you know?

[John DeLoney]

So can I tell you the path? Here's the path.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[John DeLoney]

You're not gonna like it. And people listening are gonna. They're gonna leave me a bunch of mean comments on this one, I can already tell you. Are you ready?

[Michael]

Yep.

[John DeLoney]

Are you really ready?

[Rob]

I hope so.

[John DeLoney]

Take her tracking location off your phone. Take her Social media, off your phone because you've got. At some point, take the training wheels off your bike again and risk. And risk falling over.

[Rob]

Okay.

[John DeLoney]

Because you're a year and a half in. You say you could feel it. You could say you kind of have a sense. You kind of know. But you have to begin to walk uncomfortably again and risk getting hurt that badly again or you're just going to turn into a glorified third parent for her.

[Rob]

Yeah. And I mean, dude, you hit it on the head right there. That's. I. I kind of feel this guilt that I am not. How do I say this? I am not able to champion her as my wife because I feel like I have. When I spiral, I have to control everything that's right.

[John DeLoney]

And you have to re. You have to learn. Even the way you describe your day. I was very productive. I got positive feedback. I got this. I got this. What I really want to know who you are. The way I'll really know who you are is who are you when the workday sucks and your boss says, hey, this report you turn in was awful. Chad, GPT could have done this better than you. Get out. I'll talk to you tomorrow. And you drive home and you get a flat tire. Your car's almost out of gas, and you barely make it. And then when you get home, your wife's not home, that's going to tell me if you're healed or not. Because you're going to have a bad day and you're going to be frustrated, and then you're going to be annoyed, and they want. I want to know, what do you do next?

[Rob]

Yeah, you're right.

[Michael]

I don't.

[Rob]

I don't like that advice, but it's needed, and I recognize the wisdom of it.

[John DeLoney]

Okay? So here's the thing. I want you to make a big.

[Michael]

Deal of it, okay?

[John DeLoney]

I want you to, like, have some sort of thing with just you and your wife where you show her your phone and you say, I feel like I have become in my soul, your dad. And I'm not your dad. I'm your husband. I love you. And the only way this rebuild that we're doing fully, that we can fully rest in it in a hammock on the front porch of this new house we're building together. And I want you. Her to see you delete the whole thing off. And you look at her and say, I'm trusting you again. And I'm trusting you to hurt me as bad as you did that one time. I'm trusting that's never going to happen again.

[Michael]

Wow.

[John DeLoney]

Okay. And then you're gonna feel wobbly, you're gonna feel disoriented. And here's the next scary thing. When you feel that like, where is she? She's not here. That's a normal feeling. Dude, I want you to pick up the phone and call and say, hey, I'm just checking in. How are you? And when you don't do that and you actually just go to the location and then you go to the location again and then you check her social media again. What you're doing is you're actually using those things as a Xanax as a way to avoid the actual scary thing that could actually happen. You call, she doesn't answer. And you know what that means because you remember that night you were calling and calling and calling and she didn't answer the phone. Yeah. And so having all these proxies feels good, but it's not. It's like. It's like people who tell me they like have a relationship with Chad GPT now you can but chat. GBT is not going to cry if you at your funeral.

[Michael]

Jeez.

[Rob]

Yeah, that's a crazy one.

[John DeLoney]

Or it's like. It's like watching a lot of pornography. You can watch a lot of crazy, cool sex and a lot of beautiful people doing it, but that's not being with somebody in your room by yourself. And so all these things are cool. They're all proxies. But I would love for you to have an event. You are my wife. And here we go. I'm jumping off the high dive again. And something we're making together. So give that a shot. And when you feel uncomfortable, have a couple of things already pre written out. Maybe carry a note card with you. I've done that for a season. Write on a note card. I will call when I feel awkward and tell her I'm not going to track you, but I will call. I'll shoot you now. I'm not even going to text. I don't want any more electronic communication. I'm going to call you. I'm going to FaceTime. You say, hi, I love you. How can I love you right now? Or I'm just gonna go do the chores because it's the next right thing. And if I'm like, where is she at? I'll call her. I'll reach out. Or I'm gonna go for a walk real quick. Or I'm gonna call a friend real quick. I'm gonna have a couple of behaviors in the shoot ready to go when my body starts to spin out on me. Because my body's just trying to take care of me. And you're not crazy. So give that a shot. My brother. Welcome back. And, hey, I'm proud of you. What you did is hard, which you did. Most people wouldn't do. That's okay. What you're. What you're doing is hard, and what you're trying to rebuild is amazing. And I'm proud of you for going all in. All in. Now it's time to go all the way in. We'll be right back. So I just got back into town from a trip with my family, and I'm heading back into work. I'm still a little bit fuzzy. And the first thing I did was to turn on Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. I don't like to go anywhere. I don't like to do anything without starting my day with a Hallow app. And if you're juggling work, if you're going through family nonsense or just the busyness of summer and a million other things going on in this chaos, if you're like me, you often forget to pause and reflect. And I was reminded this morning, and hopefully this reminds you, creating peace in our lives doesn't just happen. We have to choose it. We have to make space for it. And that is where Hallow comes in for me. And that's where I think Hallow can come in for you. Hallow provides you amazing opportunities to slow down and reconnect with what matters most. One of the best features on Hallow is the daily reflections with Jeff Cavins, because he helps you connect scripture to real life joys and real life challenges. Or if you're like me, sometimes you struggle with anxiety or feeling overwhelmed by all of it. Hallow offers mental health meditations and prayers that I personally find useful. From healing emotional wounds to establishing healthy habits, these guided prayers give you words of comfort and longing when you're all out of things to say. If you're ready to find some peace in the chaos that is your life, and if you're ready to find some purpose in your day, check out Hallow right now. When you sign [e-mail] DeLoney, you'll get three months for free. That's Hallow. H-A L L O W.com DeLoney for three months for free. All right, Kelly, am I the problem? I don't know. Probably.

[Kelly]

I say definitely. But anyway. All right, so this is from Danae in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and she writes My siblings are getting together to celebrate my mom's 65th birthday this Saturday. At the beginning of the week, my mom was sick with a stomach bug that lasted until Wednesday. My husband and I decided not to go to the party with our two toddlers because we don't want to take the chance of catching any lingering stomach bug germs. No one else is avoiding the party. And now I can tell that my mom is upset that we aren't coming. Am I the problem?

[John DeLoney]

Yes. Yes, go to the party. Your kids are eating bugs off of piles of dog do in the yard. Like, yes, go to the party.

[Kelly]

Plus, it's been. I mean, at that point, it'll be like four days.

[John DeLoney]

Yes, go to the party.

[Kelly]

Let's go to the party.

[John DeLoney]

Good grief. Stomach bug. Yes. Sorry. You're the problem. Just go and the layer deep. If you don't want to go, you don't want to be around all that madness, then you're not the problem. If you have the courage to say, hey, we're not gonna be able to make the party period, have a courage to do that. And then they can be the problem if they want to throw a fit. But yeah, dude, you should go. Go to the party, dude. I'm gonna get the comments on that one. Peace out. Love you all. Bye.