A (2:25)

Yeah. So let's see a little bit of context. I'm in the process of becoming a social scientist, and I did a book report and a presentation on emerging technologies like robotics and AI, specifically in the realm of relational communication. And it stemmed a little bit into sexual communication. And I did an investigation on it and I was fine. And I didn't realize I flew a little bit too close to the sun. And. Yeah, I got hooked. Yeah, I got it.

B (2:53)

Yeah. How old are you?

A (2:56)

Yeah, this is a whopper. 26.

B (2:58)

Why is that a whopper?

A (3:00)

I don't know. I feel like many of the other aspects of my life, I feel like, are healthy, man. I eat well, got a decent friend group. I've got hobbies.

B (3:11)

You don't have purpose, though.

A (3:14)

Well, I feel like I do.

B (3:15)

What is it?

A (3:16)

I mean, well, like I said, social scientists. I'm in a PhD program and it's a blessing. I enjoy every. Every second of it, but. Yeah, but I've got passion.

B (3:26)

But what's. What's it? Passion. Let's take that off the table for a second. I think that's an abused word in our culture.

A (3:33)

Okay.

B (3:33)

It's. It's almost nonsensical. It's almost lost its meaning. Right. It's like a get out of jail card. Why do you want to be a social scientist?

A (3:42)

Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I. I think the only thing I bleed back into is when I was a kid, I was always interested in people.

B (3:49)

Okay?

A (3:49)

Right. I. I did want to study them. I was always fascinated by how we communicate, why we communicate, why we build relationships, why we maintain them, why we break them down, or, or break them up.

B (4:03)

But. But what is that? And I'm going to quote one of my old dissertation advisors, the great Dr. John Murray, who would always, at the end of every dissertation defense, ask one question. So what, you've given us your research, you've given us your findings. How does this help humanity? How does this help your neighbor? Because if you just did some sort of masturbatory exercise and I can do statistics and I can answer a big question, I can study something. But you didn't help anybody. Then we've all wasted our time. And I loved that idea. So you love studying people. Awesome. I love that you love something that's amazing. You love figuring out why relationships break down, how people can communicate better, all that's awesome. What's your end goal with that?

C (4:55)

Dang.

A (4:56)

That's a.

B (4:57)

It's a great question because similar to what you've experienced with your girlfriends, AI is about to take that part of it from you.

A (5:05)

It.

B (5:06)

It will be able to scan and research and compile and write articles instantly. It already can.

A (5:18)

Dang, I can't believe I haven't thought of it that way.

B (5:20)

Or when you walk across the stage with your doctorate degree, a PhD and whatever social science field you're in, then what?

A (5:31)

You know, I. I'd always shot for something like enjoyment, really.

B (5:37)

And enjoyment is good, I'll tell you that. Can. That's a really shallow pool to swim in. I've been studying marriage as though I'm doing another dissertation for the last two years. Like pathologically studying it. Right. And to the, to the expense of my health, to my sleep. Like when I get obsessed with a thing, I get obsessed with a thing. There's been long seasons where I'm not enjoying any of it, but I'm committed to the purpose of it. Which is. Can I answer this question? Is marriage still worth it? And if so, how can I help people have better one. Better marriages? You get what I'm saying?

A (6:14)

Yeah.

B (6:15)

And if I just seek enjoyment, that's just such a shallow pool.

A (6:20)

Yeah, I. I think. Sorry to interrupt.

B (6:24)

No, you're good, man. Go ahead.

A (6:26)

I. I think the way my mind works and the way I was raised is that there's. There's always. You know, I think it does seem like a shallow purpose. At least in my life. It's always, you know, set yourself up for success and be successful monetarily, financially, spiritually, all the aspects. So the whole purpose thing, I suppose I haven't fleshed out.

B (6:56)

You're gonna find yourself as a social scientist. You'll know exactly what I'm talking about. You're gonna find yourself, quote, unquote, successful. You're gonna find yourself, quote, unquote, financially secure. You're going to find yourself, fill in the blank. You'll achieve all of your quote unquote goals and you'll have nothing. And here's why this matters to you. Struggling with a pornography addiction. Your body knows that there's no purpose here, that we are going through the motions. And that exhaustion, that feeling dead in your own skin comes out in the form of compulsion, comes out in obsessive thoughts, and it comes out in over time, addictive behaviors.

A (7:46)

Can I. Can I ask you this? I'm curious. So in, I kind of split up my life, it seems like into segments. And it may not be healthy, but. So let's take spirituality, for instance. I can easily say my Purpose there is to glorify God. I'd like to think I'm faithful. I'd like to think how do I incorporate that into everything else? I mean that to me that seems like, it seems like a pretty good purpose, but I can't tell why. Not that it's not working. It's too simple.

B (8:20)

But are you trying to, and are you trying to glorify God because you think he's going to be pissed off at you and, and you're going to burn in hell for eternity if you don't?

A (8:33)

Not necessarily. I think, I think sometimes there's an intrusive thought that comes in okay, or,

B (8:37)

or, or do you glorify God because that the map that he gave you to live brings peace because you know, come what may, through every storm in life, I'm seen and I'm known, I'm loved. Which is the anchor point that all social science, it's a big toilet bowl that they've been circling for centuries. At the end of the day, people need to be seen and known. Celebrated period. And that's what that faith gives you?

A (9:13)

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel that a lot of times I just.

B (9:17)

But do you, you feel it? Do you believe it? Do you act on it?

A (9:25)

You know, I want to say yes, but it would be a discrepancy because I keep falling back into these cycles, man.

B (9:32)

Yeah. Okay, so, so you bro, you brought up faith and that. So that's a big deal to you?

A (9:38)

Yes, sir.

B (9:38)

Like I'll use your words, glorifying God, that's a big deal to you?

A (9:41)

Yes, sir.

B (9:42)

To what end?

A (9:46)

To what end?

B (9:47)

Meaning, meaning if you were a. I, I know guys who went to, got a theology degree and went and became bartenders because they wanted to sit with exhausted, lonely, hurting people and be a calm, steady, life giving presence to them. Right. If one of them became an alcoholic from working at a bar, I would tell them you got to back out. Right. And you have to find. How am I going to take this purpose of sitting with hurting people and use it somewhere else. So are you willing to, you're, you've got to, you've got to hold open handedly. I want to study this particular thing and it's more powerful than me. I can't objectively be a part of this. Are you willing to give that up?

A (10:42)

Yes. For that goal?

B (10:44)

Okay.

A (10:44)

Yes.

B (10:45)

Then I want you to think in those terms.

A (10:48)

Okay.

B (10:50)

And so the, the, I want you to read a book by. I mean, she's extraordinary. The great Anna Lemke. It's called Dopamine Nation. And as a social scientist, every single social scientist, student, practitioner should read this book. It's a masterpiece. But here's what you got to do. You have to give yourself 30 or 60 days of cold turkey come hell or high water. I'll get rid of my computer, I'll get rid of, I'll drop out of classes, I will get rid of my phone. I will do whatever I'll every hurdle possible in front of me to get to some marker of sobriety.

A (11:27)

Okay?

B (11:29)

And what you'll find is these AI love connections as they call them, which is not what they are. They are more powerful than any human could ever possibly be in terms of affirmation, in terms of doing whatever you want, in terms of visual stimulation. They're 24 7, 365. They never get tired, they never turn off, they always tell you the next right thing and it's hollow.

A (12:04)

Yeah, that's a great point.

B (12:06)

Fair?

A (12:07)

Yeah, absolutely, definitely.

B (12:09)

And if you decide I'm going to go all in on this, not because I'm disgusting, I'm a piece of crap, or I'm a 26 year old loser, but because I'm worth real relationships. And let me challenge you. You said you got some good buddies.

A (12:30)

Yes, sir.

B (12:30)

Do they know you spend hours a day. Okay, they're not good buddies then.

A (12:37)

Okay.

B (12:38)

They're not connected to you in the way that your body would know. I've got ride or dies. You want freedom? Call some of your buddies that you trust. Go to an essay meeting. I think it's the great Berne Brown that said shame eats secrets for breakfast. Go bear it open.

A (13:08)

Oof. Yeah, that's a lot to sit with. Wow.

B (13:13)

Hold on. It's not a lot to sit with. It's a lot to do. And you're a social scientist who spends the large amount of time, the majority of your life in your head and it's killing you.

A (13:28)

No kidding.

B (13:31)

So it's going to take radical vulnerability with a group of people. And if you don't have close friends that you don't think would weaponize this, it's going to cost you your job, Cost you. Then go to an essay meeting. I promise. They're all over Dallas. And since you're a person of faith, you can go to a faith based one if that makes you feel more comfortable.

A (13:50)

Yeah, absolutely.

B (13:52)

Sometimes those are great. Sometimes those are filled with people hitting you in the face with Bibles. I'm a person of faith and I probably would not go to a faith based One I would go to one where I could be fully honest. I don't have to perform. Everybody's different. And you gotta make a commitment on a lemke style of 30 to 60 days of come hell or high water, come what may. I will not do this thing. And I will put every possible roadblock in my life to keep me from doing it.

A (14:27)

Okay. I. I see portions of. Of me doing that. Like, I've. Gosh, I've tried putting content restrictions on my phone. Yeah, but shutting it off.

B (14:37)

You can't be your own accountability partner, right?

A (14:39)

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know why I didn't see that till now, bro.

B (14:44)

It's all right. This is why you share. This is why you open up. This is why what you're doing right now is step one, it's day one of extraordinary courage and bravery. That's why I'm not beating you up, dude. That's why I'm sitting here with you. I'm honored to be talking to you.

A (14:58)

I appreciate that. And by the way, I'm getting a little emotional.

B (15:02)

No, dude, this is. It's an emotional thing to. To submit to it. Got me? My anxiety is bigger than me. My addictions are bigger than me. My depression is bigger than me. My marriage challenges are bigger than me. I am, as they say in aa, I am powerless. And I don't think that powerlessness lasts forever, but I do think there's an important moment of. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And you cannot do what comes next alone.

A (15:32)

Okay?

B (15:34)

And you're going to find a massive purpose sized hole in the middle of your chest when you take out your numbing agents and you take out the things, addictions, here's the thing. They work, they're awesome. And then they kill you. They take everything from you. Including. Including what? I think maybe. I mean, you lose your relationships, you lose your friendships, you. You lose. You lose. You can lose your job, but I think it robs you of your dignity. It robs you of looking yourself in the mirror and saying, I love that guy. I love that guy enough to delay. Delay gratification. I can get it all right now from an AI porn bot. I can. I can get all right now. But it's a copy of a copy. It's a shallow hack. It's a really thin, like, shallow pool. Or I can fumble through fall, be vulnerable, accept somebody else's shortcomings and vulnerabilities and develop a real relationship and say, I choose you. Till death do us part. We're gonna anchor into this thing together and we're gonna build a true romantic connection over time. It's not following our passion that is making a choice. I'm going to live into this because I'm worth this. You're worth this. We are worth this. Our family trees are worth this. And at least for the time being, no AI Bot can give us that. It's been an honor to talk to you, my brother. Thank you for calling. You call back anytime I can. I can be of support with you as you're, as you're walking through this. Congratulations on your academic work. But listen, have a reason why you're doing it? Have a picture of somebody you're going to help on the other end of this. And it may just be that your journey through flying really close to the sun and getting catching on fire and crashing to earth, that might make you one of the great social scientists of your time. The ability to study people and be connected to them, to know what they've been through. You're the man, brother. We come back, A woman asks if she should tell her husband that she doesn't like his gifts. Oh, this is gonna be good. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts, it can also damage our mental and emotional health, and it can really take a toll on our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety, and they're one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. My wife and I struggled with money stress for years, and it definitely had a negative impact on our relationship. Therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about financial advice, but it is about helping you build healthier ways of coping with money stress and giving you strategies to communicate about money without always going to war. I want you to check out my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and your preferences. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct, and they are fully licensed in the United States. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no additional cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H lp.com DeLoney all right, let's stay in Texas and go to Austin, right down the road from Dallas and talk to Marie. Hey, Marie, what's up?

C (18:58)

Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

B (18:59)

I'm doing great.

C (19:00)

How about you, I'm doing pretty well.

B (19:02)

Awesome.

C (19:02)

God did great and my life is good.

B (19:04)

Very cool. What's up?

C (19:07)

I am calling because sometimes my husband gets me gifts I don't like, and I'm wondering if it's a good idea.

B (19:12)

Like. Like what? Like what? I'm laughing with you, not at you. Like, like what?

A (19:17)

The.

C (19:18)

One of the most prominent examples is I got an ornament as a gift when I gave birth to our first child, our son. He. It was the most thoughtful gift to him in the options he had in the hospital gift store. But to me, I was like an ornament. Okay. Oh, yeah.

B (19:37)

This is so hard.

C (19:40)

So I'm wondering if it's a good idea if I should start trying to teach him about things I like and if so, how I can go about it. He truly is, like a thoughtful, kind person, and I don't want him to feel, like, emasculated or hurt his pride. I know I can't control his feelings.

A (19:58)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that.

B (19:59)

And if his. If his pride and masculinity is tied to you will like everything I do, then that's a very shallow masculinity.

C (20:10)

Yeah.

B (20:10)

Okay. That's a very shallow ego. That is a. That is a Chihuahua sized e. I mean, that's a. That's a. That's a one of those. The Clifford the big Red dog sized egos. But inside is a teeny, light, tiny, barking Chihuahua. So you. You said it perfectly. And let's set the stage here, okay? Can I just be brutally honest with you? Is that cool?

C (20:35)

Let's go for it.

B (20:36)

Part of me. Has deep compassion for this guy. He was anxious and nervous and scared for your health in ways that you probably have no idea, and terrified he's going to mess something up. And then he had the thought in the hospital, good God, I got. I want to give her something special. And he ran down to the stupid gift shop. And so there is a component of that that I want to tell you. Like, dude, get over yourself. He brought you. He showed up to the hospital, which is more than some men do these days.

A (21:11)

Right?

C (21:14)

Be there when your kid's born, you

B (21:15)

would think, but I wouldn't have a job if everyone agreed on that. So.

C (21:18)

Okay.

B (21:19)

There's a lot of things I think are the bare minimum that people are like, what? And the other side of it is I want to grab him by the ears and be like, bro, think about this before you're on the way to the hospital.

C (21:34)

Yeah. No, And I. I do appreciate the kindness it didn't help that, like, I had thought ahead. So I got him a custom book as, like, written by his son, you

B (21:45)

know, kind of stuff. Now we're into the real stuff.

C (21:49)

Yeah.

B (21:49)

When you start keeping score, your relationship will crash and burn. And so when it becomes I did this, but you only did this, now we have a problem. And so I want you to take your, like, you verse him off the scoreboard and re. And put another scoreboard up that just has one score on it. It's you and me versus the world, and you said it perfectly. And this is very unsexy, very unhollywood, and very countercultural. The greatest gift you could give him right now is a road map to what you want and what you like, and in those few instances, what you need. That's an amazing gift. Can I tell you how to do that?

C (22:36)

That's what I'm looking for. That's why I called.

B (22:38)

Here's what I did in my own. I'm gonna tell you exactly what I did in my own house, so you can adjust this however it works for y'.

C (22:45)

All.

B (22:45)

What does your husband do for a living? Let me see if I can be creative here.

C (22:48)

He is a program manager.

B (22:50)

Incredible. And do you. Do you work outside the home?

C (22:53)

I do.

B (22:54)

What do you do?

C (22:56)

I'm also a program manager.

B (22:57)

Dude, do y' all send each other, like, sexy love notes and via Excel spreadsheets?

C (23:04)

I wish, but no.

B (23:08)

Oh, man. Hey. I'm in a house where two nerds love each other, and we are raising nerds.

C (23:14)

And so, yes, his first DND dice set. So shout out to your team that plays dnd.

B (23:20)

Oh, no, I will not shout that out.

C (23:22)

I know.

B (23:22)

Although I just finished Stranger Things, and it's so great. Okay, so here we go. Stranger Things is a modern masterpiece. All right, so. So shout out to the Dungeons and Dragons community. All right, so here's what I did with my wife. She's an. She was a college professor in her former life. I was, too. And so I said, hey, I realized over the last few years, you've gotten into books, you've gotten into music, you've been studying different forms of spirituality and theology. You listen to different podcasts. Strangely, I don't know you like I once did. Will you make me a syllabus of you give me 10 podcasts, give me 10 books. Let's set up a date where we can talk about five things that we used to, like, in the bedroom, in household chores, in, like, hanging out with family members and friends. All that five Things we used to like that we don't anymore. And what's five things about you that I don't know that you'd want to try, that you'd want to. And am I just talking about, like, sex stuff? I'm. That that's part of it, but it's also gifts. It's also, I want to start having more people over again like we used to. Right. It's those kind of things. But it's a syllabus. And so for y', all, it might be, hey, you know how we have a project manager? I want to do an exercise where I want to become the project manager of you, and I want you to become the project manager of me, which means I would love to get to know you again. We have an all new marriage. We have new kids. The marriage we had has, is over. We have a new one now and we get to program it however we want to. And that takes the pressure off of. I didn't really like that gift, cuz. Can I tell you something? He didn't either. Like, he knows.

C (25:18)

Yeah, he, he caught on to it for Valentine's Day. He kept asking me, do I like it? I was trying to smile and be polite and fourth time asked me. I'm like, okay, you know, so I'm.

B (25:29)

Hollywood says true love is they can read my mind. And that's nonsense.

A (25:33)

Yeah.

B (25:35)

True love is I love you enough to tell you what I want. And this is very unpopular. True love is a month out when, you know, he's stressed out of his mind at work and he's exhausted and he's running and gunning and trying to figure out to be a dad in real time, trying to change the oil in this car of his life while he's still driving down the highway saying, I'm doing something really special for you, for the birth of our kid that's coming in 30 days. This is your. This is your reminder.

C (26:09)

Okay.

B (26:10)

Gosh, that's unsexy.

C (26:11)

Not sexy.

B (26:12)

It's not at all.

C (26:13)

But it works.

B (26:13)

But. But hey, it keeps you from. It keeps it. Maybe it's annoying, maybe it's frustrating, but it keeps you out of resentment. And it's saying, you know what? I know him. I see him. And he doesn't forget these things because he doesn't love me. He forgets these things because he's got so. He's carrying so much up in his head trying to keep like this family. And I'm making up stories here right now. Like, right.

C (26:42)

No, that's absolutely true. No, I can say that with 110% certainty. That is. That is the truth.

B (26:47)

And so the greatest gift I can give my wife is not to expect her to love me the way I want to be loved, is to give her a map and to ask for a map. Get what I'm saying?

C (27:03)

I am. I'm also writing notes, so.

B (27:06)

All right. So I would. I would, like, love him and say, I want us to get away for half a day and grit your teeth, oh, this one's gonna hurt. You get the childcare. And I know that's you're like, again, really? All the time.

C (27:21)

Yes, I do it all the time. Anyways, change anything or.

B (27:24)

Or tell them I want you to get the child care, and I'm getting us. I'm setting this thing up for us. But here's what I want. I want you to send him a list. I want to know these five or ten things, and then grit your teeth and listen to the podcast. Read at least one or two of the books. Listen to one or two or three of the albums of the songs. Not all of them. And trust me, my wife is into historical fiction. She loves studying the dust bowl. She loves exploring ancient spirituality. She listens to podcasts that sometimes make me want to set my face on fire just to see if I still feel pain and vice versa. Right? So it's not like I have to do this all the time, but it's. I want to get to know you, and then that's going to give me opportunities for curiosity.

A (28:16)

What.

B (28:16)

What is it about this music? This feels so chaotic, insane, crazy. What is it about this? Once a. It. Basically, once a semester, because we still live on semester schedules at my house. We just did it for so long. Once a semester. She's like, pick a comedian for me to go watch with you. And so I curate that very carefully and often. I'm. Right now, there's a few that she came to. I was dying laughing. I look over, and she was not having it all right? But she'll go with me. She'll go to a punk rock show with me if I'm like, please, please, please. Awesome. And I'll go to a theater production. I love going to theater productions, but I'll go to one. A musical that I may not be into because I'm. I'm passionate about what she. I'm not passionate about what she's passionate about. I'm passionate that she's passionate about something. You know what I'm saying?

C (29:08)

I think I do.

B (29:09)

It's the thing underneath the Thing, Like, I want you to be passionate. Not about the gift he did or didn't give you. I want you to be passionate about the fact that he's wild about you.

C (29:19)

Yes, he is.

B (29:19)

So let's give him some clues and some. And some. A path on how to direct that wildness right at your. In the middle of your chest.

C (29:29)

Yeah, I think I just need to do a better job at giving him a heads up of, hey, by the way, you know, clocks are ticking on something.

B (29:37)

Well, like, I don't. Do your best not to moralize this, okay? What do you mean I need to do better? I failed. I screwed up. No, you didn't. If I had to go 51.49 on this one, like, whose fault was this? I'll blame him. Like, if y' all were both sitting with me, I would laughingly look at him and go, dude, you blew this one. Gift shop. Really? Ornament? Yeah, In June. Great. Good one. Right? I. I would. I would. I would point at him, but I would look back at you and say, how much does this guy carry all the time?

C (30:11)

A lot. A lot. He. He's an amazing person, and I. I love him deeply. And that's why, like, the gift thing, it's not. It doesn't. It's really not a factor on our relationship or our life. It's just more of a. I could have spent that money on groceries and, like, enjoyed it and ate them well.

B (30:28)

And also, is it not a proxy for, like, buying somebody a gift that they don't want over and over and over again? Or. It can be a proxy. It can. It can not a proxy. It can be a. An example of I don't feel seen and known in my own house.

C (30:50)

Yeah, it definitely could be a proxy for that. But overall, I say we're pretty good.

B (30:55)

You are. And that's where I'm going to allow myself to be seen and allow myself to be known. And that's a very vulnerable thing because. Because he might choose to not do it, and now we got to deal with that. But he doesn't sound like that kind of guy.

C (31:08)

He's not that kind of guy. He absolutely will. He might be a little sad, but he's.

A (31:12)

He's a good dude.

B (31:12)

Give homie a roadmap.

A (31:14)

Okay.

B (31:14)

And honor him by saying. And love him well, by saying, I want a roadmap for you. And you might think, you know, you. You might not. Okay. You might not. So. So here's. Here's the deal. I'm going to hook you up with this. All right, you ready for Marie?

C (31:27)

I'm ready.

B (31:27)

I'm gonna hook you up with you and your husband for a year with a together app.

C (31:31)

Oh, great.

A (31:32)

Cool.

B (31:32)

Okay. And here's what it is. It's microhabits. It's a thing he can do every day towards you, and it's a thing that you can do every day towards him. And it gives y' all connecting points, not in huge firework shows, but in tiny steps towards each other. Okay? So hang on the line. I'll hook you up with a year of it for free. You and your husband, y' all can get it on together. It's awesome. It's got it. It. It's. It's. It's helping people in ways that I. I did not. I couldn't have imagined. But I'll hook you all up with that, and it will give you all an opportunity, a crack in the door to have this conversation, but I don't think you need a crack in the door. It sounds like he's got that door wide open. And if he's sad, you have to begin to practice. It's not my job to go rescue his sad feelings. I need to be able to tell the truth, to be honest and safe inside my own marriage. And yes, he's going to hurt his. Have his feelings hurt, but I'm not going to rescue him from that. Those are his feelings. And then he gets to choose to do the next right thing, and so do you. It's awesome. Awesome, Marie. I love talking to couples who are trying to get it right and who love each other more than. Than life itself. That's awesome. Awesome, awesome. We come back, A woman asks if she is wrong for believing that dating after a spouse dies is okay. Be right back. For years, I thought that sleep was for losers and for weak people. I kept pushing and pushing in my work, with my relationships, with my hobbies, and of course, I crashed. I started focusing on my sleep, and one of the things I did to focus on my sleep was I started checking out great mattresses. And that's how I ended up sleeping on a Helix mattress. When you're exhausted, everything feels heavier, harder, and more complex because your body is always keeping track of how much you are or are not sleeping. I've had mine for a couple of years now, and I track my sleep, and I've seen a powerful difference in my deep sleep and in my REM sleep. It's made a huge difference. And Helix can make a difference for you, too. I want you to get online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes and they'll match you with the mattress that is just right for how you actually sleep. Because we all sleep different. Helix mattresses will ship straight to your door and you get 120 night sleep trial and it's backed by a limited lifetime warranty. As we head into spring, everyone's talking about resetting your routines and getting ready for the summer. Remember, your routine starts and ends with good sleep. Go to helixsleep.com deloney and get 20 off site wide during their spring savings event. That's Helix H E l I x helixsleep.com Deloney for 20 off and be sure you tell them you heard about their amazing matt right here on the Dr. John DeLoney show with Helix. Better sleep starts right now. All right, Kansas City, Kansas. Let's go to Joe. What's up, Joe?

C (34:29)

Hi. Hi, Dr. John.

B (34:30)

How are you?

C (34:32)

Great. How about you?

B (34:33)

I'm remarkable. I'm running a scam called the podcast. It's the best. What's going on?

C (34:39)

It's awesome. Yeah. Thank you for, for taking this call. So the. I feel like I have to give just a little bit of back story, but my husband and I have been married 15 years. Great. Really, overall awesome marriage. Not perfect, but strong and solid and we have it, we align on most things and that's why we had a situation about almost a year ago. So after church we come home and I just casually mention that I thought it was so cute that a couple from church, they're in their 80s and they were holding hands in the back and it just warmed my heart. I did it kind of as like a throw away. And my husband like quickly was like, that wasn't, it's not appropriate. And I was like, he's kind of a joker, right? He was like, it's not appropriate. And, and he's, he's a joker. Like, he's funny. And so I was like, well, they weren't making out back there. Like they were just holding hands. And gosh, I thought it was super cute. They were making out that 80s 90s, right? That's how I feel. And so he, he said, he was like, when you. I made a kip, like it kind of spiraled into this. The topic, you know, the conversation of like after, after death, is it okay to, to remarry or to date or to anything. And he just looked at me and he's like, I committed to you. Like I'm in it with you. And I probably not my best move back. I Was like, yeah, still death. Right. That's the point. And then you're free.

B (36:12)

Yes.

C (36:12)

You do whatever. You know, you move on. Or. So we. So I just kind of, like. I could tell it was, like, stressy. Who. Him. And thought, this is just kind of crazy. So I moved on. And then probably not my best next move was. Which is why I'm calling now. Okay, so we have.

B (36:28)

You're already my hero of the day.

C (36:31)

Thanks. Probably not his, but. So we have some really close friends, and they were over one night, and we were having wine, just hanging out. And so I brought up the. Brought it up. I was like, hey, what do you guys think about this? We were having. We were talking about the couple. Like, they're so cute, Roy and Irene. This is how I see it. And he, like, thinks, this is not okay. And, you know, my girlfriend being a good girlfriend was like, yeah, seriously, this is. It's okay. You know that it's cute. It's companionship. And, you know, we went on to, like, it's not even sexual probably at that, but if it is, it is. Right? Have at it. But it's more about just the companionship. And he just really kind of doubled down on it. And this has been months and months ago, and it isn't something that, like, really, like, plays in my mind all the time, but I listen to your show often, and I thought it would be a. Like, am I the problem? So I kind of pictured it being like that. And then I got the curveball with the call.

B (37:27)

Oh, awesome. I think this is a great conversation. And I'll. I'll answer it this way. Okay.

C (37:35)

Yeah.

B (37:36)

In my house, my wife has very specific requests for who I date and marry if she were to die.

C (37:47)

Oh, okay.

B (37:48)

Okay. And one of the main requests is. I won't say it on the air because she said it jokingly, but I think she kind of wasn't joking. But she gave me some very clear instructions that wouldn't fit in either of our moral situations, but. Or our values. But it was. It was, please don't get married three weeks after I die.

C (38:08)

Right. Yeah.

B (38:10)

And because she knows I'm an emote. Well, it's not. It wasn't even that. She goes, I could. In her. In her mind, I'm dead. I don't care. I don't get a vote. I'm dead. What she was saying was, john, you're emotional. I love dating. I love love. Okay. And she said, you also don't do well when you're alone. And so you will Grab on to the first car that drives by and be like, this is my forever car. And she, and, and we're laughing when she was doing all this, right? But she's like, the kids will pay the price for that, so go do all the crazy you want to do. But right? And I said, I want you to marry somebody awesome and I want you to date. I want you to have all these adventures. And she looked at me and said, john, you're it for me.

A (38:56)

Ah.

B (38:57)

And, and here's the thing. I, I, I, we talked about it forever. We've talked about it multiple times because I think it's hilarious. But she's like, I'm gonna move to this particular location, get it, get some cats, and no one will ever see me again, ever. And here's, here's what I had to wrestle with. She said this. She said, I've done marriage. I did it with you. I chose you. And her credit, and she was just kind of filling me with hot air. She said, I can't do better than, you know. And she said, so the thought of me trying to run that back is, I'm not interested in that. And she has a very real lived experience. Her grandmother, one of the most amazing humans to ever walk the planet, was married to a literal, like a World War II veteran who was on the ground in Germany fighting Nazis, like, and he died 20, 30 years ago. And she never remarried. And she would always say, I had my husband and my, my love and my care are going to go to my family, to my grandkids, to my neighbor, and just one of the most extraordinary women ever. And so here's what I want to hold space for. I firmly with all of my guts. Yes. If your spouse dies, it's still death. Does y' all part, Right. I wouldn't probably tell your husband.

C (40:20)

Right.

B (40:20)

I wouldn't probably tell your husband. Then I'd be free. I wouldn't say it like that, probably right? But this idea that, yeah. When I was in the throes of years of undealt with anxiety, I was not well, well, okay. I remember reading a book and my wife was reading a book and we were sitting in bed and I, I remember looking at her and I was like, oh, gosh. And she's like, what? And I said, because I said it kind of in a over dramatic, exasperated way, which I know you could never imagine that I would be like that. I looked at her and I was like, best case scenario is I'm 95, you're 94. New Year's rings true. Like the New year bell, like, turns. We kiss each other and we both die at the same time. And our children have to deal with our dead bodies. And I said. She looked at me, goes, what's the matter with you? And I said, any other situation is just worse than that. And I was like, that's the best case. And she was like, go to bed or go to therapist. Right. But here's the thing. That's. That's the. That's the dream, right?

C (41:26)

Yeah.

B (41:27)

You both get up and you're both walking to another room and you both fall down dead. And 99.9999999 chance that won't be how it goes.

C (41:37)

Right.

B (41:38)

And so to use your words, yes, if your spouse passes away, you're free.

A (41:45)

That feels.

C (41:46)

I feel bad saying that. That's me.

B (41:47)

But it's true.

C (41:50)

Calling me out on that.

B (41:51)

To date again, to love again.

C (41:53)

Yeah.

B (41:54)

And I. I'll tell you the. The greatest wisdom I ever received was from somebody who used to work with me. She's just. She's. Again, man, I'm just surrounded by amazing, awesome women. And Kelly. And she's amazing, awesome, too.

C (42:09)

He is.

B (42:09)

But she. This woman told me her husband had passed away, and she was awesome. And I met her new husband. It was years later I met her new husband, and I would not have on. On, like, if I just met her and met him, I wouldn't have put them together. And I was like, tell me about this guy. Like, how did you go back and get remarried and all that? And she said, oh, I built a life with someone. I've done that. I raised kids. I created a home. We both work. Like, I did that part of my life. Now I married somebody who I love. And we're going to get old and we're going to get unhealthy, and we're going to have as much fun as humanly possible until our date, our number gets called. And I loved that attitude. Like, I've. I'm not gonna build a new, like, family unit.

C (42:58)

Right.

B (42:59)

You and me, ride or die. We're gonna have the most fun ever. We're gonna get old, and our knees are gonna hurt. We're gonna take each other to doctor appointments, and we're gonna go out on the lake and we're gonna, like, man, that sounds awesome to me. That sounds like my wife's worst nightmare. And so I. I want to keep it from one is right and one is wrong. And I want to open. I want to have compassion for your husband. I Can't psychologically picture you in the hands of another man. So I'm not going to ever. You're mine, and I love that. And he doesn't get to tell you what you get to do after he dies. Fair.

C (43:42)

Yeah, Agreed.

B (43:44)

And so it's just holding space for each individual person's. And I'm gonna tell you, I took it personal when my wife said, I'm done being married. I was like, well, what's. So have I made this not awesome to, like, where you'd want to go do this again? And she was like, a, no, not at all. But B, she's like, it doesn't get more awesome than this. And I don't. I don't want to run that back. Right. And so all that to say is, everybody's different. And so I think making a blanket. It has to be this way. Some people are going to say, no, I found my love, and now I'm going to take the energy and compassion and whatever I have, and I'm going to express it in the world in other ways. And me, I'm going to give it three weeks, and then I'm hitting the scene. Get all the apps.

C (44:33)

Three weeks in one day.

B (44:35)

Swipe right and all that stuff. Yeah, dude, not really. I'd be a lost basket. You'd find me in the woods, haggard. I can just imagine Kelly coming after me in the woods, and I'm like, haven't bathed in months. And I'm just like, yeah. She's like, hey, we need. I've got a job. We need to keep making shows. But I would be a disaster. I'd be a train wreck.

C (44:58)

How do you like? I. I so appreciate that. And I can. I can see. See that I. Where I feel. And maybe I'm making it too personal. Like, how do I feel like I would continue to honor him, like, when that's real life, if we. Obviously, I don't want that to happen. I want to be 94, 95. But if he does pass away, I don't even know, knowing how he feels. Like, how could I even think about it? Does that make sense?

B (45:25)

Totally. And what I would tell you is one of the definitions of anxiety is creating future problems that don't exist yet and trying to solve them in the present.

C (45:35)

I know.

B (45:37)

And so let's cross that bridge when we get there.

A (45:39)

There. Okay.

C (45:40)

Yeah.

B (45:41)

Because he may be holding your head, your. I mean, holding your hand as he passes away and look at you and say, go live a crazy, wild life.

C (45:50)

Sure.

B (45:51)

Just make sure he's Handsome.

A (45:53)

Right.

B (45:53)

Or whatever. Or he may look at you and say, if you ever hold the hand of another man, I will haunt you until. Right. Like, let's let that moment happen and then we'll deal with that moment.

A (46:02)

Sure. That's good.

C (46:04)

Yeah. Thank you.

B (46:05)

But I like projecting that out right now. I wouldn't spend a lot of energy on that. I, I and, and the Gottmans talk about this. I think it's 69, 70% of marital conflict. Like this is perpetual. It, it won't be solved. You're just gonna have different beliefs on a thing.

C (46:25)

Yeah.

B (46:25)

And so there is a space inside of a marriage for an arms agreement. Like, we know those are in the closet. We're just going to both agree to not fire those rockets off because we disagree on it.

C (46:37)

I like that. Yeah.

B (46:39)

And it feels like, oh, we're disconnected. No, we're mutually both deciding. And let's leave those rockets where they are.

C (46:46)

Yeah. That makes.

B (46:48)

Because the thought of you being super lonely for the rest of your life is terrifying. And the thought of dishonoring your husband is terrifying. Let's solve that when we get there. Right?

C (46:58)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (47:00)

That's great.

B (47:01)

Is that fair?

C (47:01)

It doesn't impact day to day? Absolutely.

B (47:03)

No, no, no. The fact. And there's a place for you to rest in. Dude, that guy, that guy loves me literally till the end of time.

C (47:13)

He loves big.

A (47:14)

Yes.

B (47:15)

Yeah.

A (47:15)

This is true.

B (47:16)

And man, great. If you can rest in, in that bear hug. That's pretty sweet.

A (47:21)

Yeah.

B (47:22)

Pretty awesome.

A (47:23)

Okay.

B (47:23)

But hey, great question, Joe. Dude, great question. That's awesome. You know what? I'm gonna hook you and your husband up with the together app too. I love y'. All. Y' all are the. Y' all are rad. Your husband's dreadfully wrong here. But y'.

C (47:34)

All.

B (47:34)

I'm just kidding. But y' all are. Y' all are rad. And I love that y' all are having these hard conversations. I love you're bringing to debate and discuss. I love it. I love all of it. Together Apps is a just a microhabits app. It's going to help strengthen your marriage in the little things. So that when you have these big discussions, you all never forget at the nervous system level. She's mine and I'm his. We're connected. We're all in this thing together, anchored to the same concrete. We just disagree on this thing. We believe different things about this thing. It's awesome. Hang on the line. We'll get you hooked up. We'll be right back. Every day on my show. I'm talking about boundaries. And I know boundaries have become oversold in our culture. Boundaries are not about being mean. They're just about being safe. But most of us don't have boundaries when it comes to sharing our data online. In fact, most of us don't even know we're sharing it. That's why I use and recommend Delete me. If somebody can just look up your home address, your phone number, the names and pictures of your relatives, that's not just quote unquote a part of modern life. That's somebody stealing your private information. That's your private life sitting out there in public for anyone who wants to see it to come by and see it. Listen, you'd never let strangers walk through your house and just start flipping through photo albums and going through your mail and personal information. That's what's happening online. Data brokers buy and sell your personal information to people you don't want having it. That's their whole business model. Delete Me goes to those sites, removes your information and checks month after month to make sure it's gone. Delete Me will handle it, saving you lots of time and a ton of hassles. If you're serious about protecting your digital boundaries, check out Delete me. Go to joindeleteme.com deloney for 20% off an annual plan. That's Join J o I n joindeleteme.com DeLoney all right, Kelly. Am I the problem? All right, so we have an email from Vanessa and she's in San Francisco and she writes, I am 21 years old and an only child. I moved back home two months ago to pay off debt while working as a first grade teacher. Since returning, I've noticed that my parents arguing has worsened because of their different values. This often leads to daily yelling, especially about how money should be spent. I tried talking to both of them.

A (49:56)

I know.

B (49:56)

Isn't that cute? How sweet.

C (49:58)

I know.

B (49:59)

Explaining that these value differences are not new. Bless her heart. And that constantly fighting won't change that. It's only stressing them out and affecting their health. My efforts have led to no change. What? Shockingly, tell me more. And both refuse to go to therapy. This situation has taken a toll on me too. It's caused me a great deal of stress and it's made it difficult to be present while I'm teaching. Sitting by and doing nothing feels impossible because I care about both of them.

C (50:28)

Them.

B (50:28)

Am I The problem? Yes. 100%. A common rule of wisdom that all 20 and 30 and even 40 year olds, 50 year olds should internalize. Your parents do not want your opinions on their money or about their sex life. I don't know, I don't know why that is. I don't know a study where that exists. But that's just an is. Occasionally they may ask you, hey, give me your thoughts on money or I'm struggling with this. And if they invite you into that conversation for help, jump in with both feet. Amazing. But you're learning as a 21 year old, as we all did. And God bless you for learning this to 21. I learned this at like at 40. I only enter into conversations like that when I'm asked, when I'm invited, when people say, do you have another opinion on this? And one of the most unempowering things for adults to learn, and you're learning it, and I hate it for you, is watching people you love do painful things, things that are hurting them and those they love and they don't want your help or advice or any input from you at all. And it feels powerless. And so your choices are, is to own the only two things on the planet you can own, which are your thoughts and your actions. You can move out and it will. Everything you choose to do will come at a cost. You can stay and you can go in your room and put on your headphones. When they start nagging with each other and fighting, you can move out and that's going to delay you paying off student loan debt. You can get some roommates and figure out another arrangement. But you had a picture in your life of how you wanted it to go. And that picture is different now. And so we're going to be sad about it, we're going to grieve it and then we're going to go make a new picture. And any choice to not make a new picture is a choice to be miserable in the present. And so take ownership of what you can control. You cannot control their, their 20, 30, 40 year fight about money. It's been going on forever and it's going to keep going on forever. You can't control their choice to not deal with this issue. You can't control, control how they yell, how. You can't control any of that stuff. All you can control here is you do. And that feels both powerless and hopefully really empowering. I get to choose what I do next. So choose what's going to bring you peace. Choose what's going to make you feel empowered to go do the thing that you're your purpose, which is right now, teaching, being present with little kids, giving them a an example of a regulated young adult and commit to yourself. Now, when I get married, I'm going to be on the same page with my spouse, with money. I'm going to be on the same page with how we handle conflict. And I can make those changes for my family tree moving forward, but I can't do anything about the branches that are already growing out of this tree. Thanks for call, sister. That was a great, great question. Good on you. Love you guys. Bye.