My Shopping Addiction Is Ruining my Marriage

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show – "My Shopping Addiction Is Ruining My Marriage"

Podcast: The Dr. John Delony Show (Ramsey Network)
Episode Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony
Main Callers: Tia, Mary, Lola

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Dr. John Delony takes calls from listeners grappling with deep personal crises around addiction and toxic relationships. The primary focus is on Tia, a woman struggling with compulsive shopping that’s threatening her marriage, and her journey into the root causes of her behavior. The episode dives into cycles of shame, childhood wounds, anxiety, and the practical and emotional steps toward healing. Subsequent callers, Mary and Lola, also discuss partner addiction and controlling relationships, providing a broad discussion about self-worth, boundaries, and reclaiming autonomy from destructive cycles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tia’s Compulsive Shopping and Its Roots

[01:07–18:26]

• Tia’s Confession:
  Since January, Tia has spent about $14,000 on shopping, mostly for clothes and jewelry. Despite recognizing her overspending and attempting multiple strategies to curb it (deleting apps, involving her husband), she finds herself unable to stop, feeling out of control and overwhelmed by guilt.

  • “I feel like I’m spiraling, and I just… I feel like I can’t stop.” — Tia [01:24]

• Emotional Origins:
  Delony gently guides Tia to explore how her shopping is a coping mechanism for deeper pain, particularly issues of self-image stemming from her childhood and postpartum period.

  • “What does shopping for jewelry and for clothes… what does that get you?” — Delony [02:31]
  • Tia reveals she shops for confidence, struggling with her sense of self, especially after gaining weight post-pregnancy.

• Childhood Messaging:
  Through probing questions, Tia admits her mother made frequent critical comments about her weight and appearance as a child, while her father never explicitly affirmed her beauty.

  • “Who told Tia, when Tia was young, that she wasn’t beautiful?” — Delony [04:21]
  • “Actually, I can’t think of a time [my father told me I was beautiful].” — Tia [06:00]

• Patterns Repeating:
  Tia worries she will unintentionally repeat her mother’s harshness with her daughter, confronting her fear of becoming the parent she resented.

  • “Is there any part of you that’s scared that you are going to treat your daughter like you were treated?” — Delony [10:18]

• Breaking the Cycle:
  Delony frames the spending not simply as a financial issue but as a shield against underlying pain—from her childhood and her present anxiety as a mother. They discuss the need for Tia’s husband to become an active support, calling out negative self-talk and affirming her value.

• A Plan for Change:
  Delony suggests immediate actionable steps:

  • Pause and Reflect: Before downloading shopping apps, Tia must breathe deeply and journal her feelings in the moment, identifying what emotion is driving her urge.
  • Scorched Earth / 30-Day Challenge: Tia is challenged to go 30 days without shopping apps—“go caustic”—as a hard break in the cycle.
  • Inner-Child Work: Write a letter to her 9-year-old self, granting permission to simply be a kid.
  • Family Support & Accountability: Engage her husband for daily check-ins and accountability.
    • “You’re changing your family tree. Not just financially, but the way we talk to each other in this house.” — Delony [17:25]

• Resources Offered:
  Tia receives a free year of the Every Dollar budgeting app, encouraging open, accountable financial management with her husband.

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2. Mary’s Fight to Escape a Marriage Destroyed by Gambling

[20:38–36:18]

• Mary’s Situation:
  Married for 15 years, Mary describes her husband’s unremitting gambling addiction, financial deceit, and the resulting devastation—damaged credit, repossessions, $65,000 in back taxes, and the burden of singlehandedly supporting a special-needs child.

  • “He’s really financially destroyed my credit and I’m just tired of it.” — Mary [20:48]

• Facing Reality:
  Dr. Delony and Dave stress that Mary must accept a total "leveling" of her current reality to ensure safety, advising her to prioritize essentials—housing, food, transportation—above pride or lifestyle maintenance.

  • "Whenever you leave a 15 year marriage, you have to understand—I am leveling the ground of the life I know.” — Delony [23:55]

• Practical Steps for Exit:

  • Explore low-cost or community legal options for divorce.
  • Leverage family support even if it’s humbling (“I gotta move in with family. And that is awful. I wouldn’t wish that on anybody…” — Delony [27:57]).
  • Freeze credit and review financial damage.
  • Contact a tax pro for the IRS situation; referred to Ramsey Solutions' professionals.
  • Focus emotional energy on problem-solving, not anger at her spouse:
    • “Every second you spend going back being angry and enraged... is an ounce of energy you’re not using to move forward and save yourself and your child.” — Delony [30:36]

• Emotional Validation:
  Delony acknowledges and affirms Mary’s grief and anger—validating the loss and betrayal she’s endured—and encourages her to focus on pragmatic steps forward.

• Support Offered:
  Mary is gifted Financial Peace University to empower her with tools for regaining financial independence.

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3. Lola & the Reality of a Controlling, Emotionally Abusive Relationship

[38:03–53:01]

• Lola’s Dilemma:
  Lola describes her nine-year relationship (fiancé, not yet married) with four children, in which her partner is controlling about her clothing, finances, social relationships, and uses shaming language.

  • “If I wear those [leggings, maxi dresses], then I’m just asking for attention from other men and acting single.” — Lola [38:20]

• Toxic Pattern Recognition:
  Delony firmly names the behavior as controlling and emotionally abusive, directly challenging the narrative that Lola is responsible for her partner’s insecurity or lack of contribution.

  • “Your kids are absorbing every second of this.” — Delony [40:49]
  • “He doesn’t get a vote when he tells you you’re not a good wife or not a good girlfriend… He does not get a vote.” — Delony [46:34]

• Empowerment and Next Steps:

  • Use personal direct deposit to save for an exit plan.
  • Take up free therapy support via Better Help, gifted by the show.
  • Instructed to be honest in therapy and to co-create an action plan.
  • Encouraged to find at least one trusted person to confide in for support despite embarrassment or shame.
    • “Grief demands a witness… you have to sit down with other people and just explain what’s going on.” — Delony [49:01]

• Validation and Compassion:

  • Delony heavily validates Lola's feelings, calling out societal and personal shame, emphasizing that her situation is "not okay" and that she is "worth more than this."

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4. Therapy Bro Summer: Destigmatizing Mental Health Support for Men

[54:50–60:16]

• Cultural Trends:
  The show closes with a discussion on “Therapy Bro Summer,” a new social trend encouraging men to seek therapy, supported by research that women increasingly prefer emotionally literate partners.

  • “Real men face their demons; they don’t run away from them.” — Kelly [57:17]
  • Delony likens therapy to calling a skilled professional when you lack specific skills:
    • “I didn’t have the skills, I needed to go get these skills.” [57:51]

• Destigmatization:
  All hosts support the idea that seeking therapy is a sign of courage and responsibility, not weakness, especially for breaking patterns of addiction and abuse.

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Memorable Quotes

• “Hurt is also the things that weren’t said to us that should have been said to us. And you got it from both sides, huh?” — Delony [06:25]
• “What if I told you that maybe your spending is acting as a pretty good buffer? It’s a way to distract yourself or numb out from that feeling of I don’t want this to happen again.” — Delony [11:47]
• “Anybody can white knuckle anything for 30 days. Proud of you, Tia.” — Delony [18:19]
• “Every second you spend going back being angry and enraged… is an ounce of energy you’re not using to move forward and save yourself and your child.” — Delony [30:36]
• “He doesn’t get a vote.” — Delony [46:34]
• “Grief demands a witness. You have to sit down with other people and just explain what’s going on.” — Delony [49:01]
• “The bravest guys I know go say, hey, I don’t know how to do a thing and go get it.” — Delony [59:23]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Tia’s Story: Recognizing and Exploring Shopping Addiction: [01:07–10:56]
• Unpacking Childhood Roots & Family Dynamics: [03:23–06:36]
• Mother-Daughter Fears; Breaking Generational Patterns: [10:18–12:57]
• Designing a Practical and Emotional Recovery Plan: [15:08–18:26]
• Mary’s Marriage and Gambling Chaos: [20:38–36:18]
• Empowering Steps to Escape, Legal, and Financial Recovery: [23:34–35:35]
• Lola’s Story & Confronting Relationship Control: [38:03–53:01]
• Therapy Bro Summer and Destigmatizing Men’s Therapy: [54:50–60:16]

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Tone and Style

The conversation is direct, compassionate, and practical. Delony frequently validates deep pain while insisting on actionable steps. The language is candid but supportive, often mixing tough love with warmth. Listeners are reminded throughout of their worthiness of love, support, and better circumstances, regardless of their past wounds or current struggles.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a powerful look at how shame, addiction, and toxic relationships are often rooted in old wounds, and gives listeners both permission and a road map to break cycles for themselves and their families. Through empathy and actionable advice, Dr. Delony creates space for healing and self-reclamation, reminding listeners: you are worthy, you are not alone, and real change is possible—starting with one brave step at a time.

Transcript

[Tia]

Since January, I've spent about $14,000 on shopping. Originally, I added up everything that I spent just to kind of give myself a shock of how much I spent. And even after doing that, I go back to shopping again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who told Tia when Tia was young.

[Joe]

That she wasn't beautiful or she didn't look right?

[Dave Ramsey]

What up? What up?

[Joe]

This is John with the Dr. John Del Show. Hope you're doing good. Like, I really, really do hope you're doing well, and you got a moment of clarity, a moment of peace.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe you're doing something important or not important or whatever, but I'm.

[Joe]

I'm just super grateful that you're with us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whether you're driving around or mowing or vacuuming or cleaning something or avoiding somebody or sitting in a coffee shop or wherever you happen to be consuming this.

[Joe]

I'm just super grateful that you are with us. We're talking about your marriage, your mental, emotional health, struggles with addiction, whatever you got going on, your kids, everything. That's what we talk about on this show. And I'm going to sit with you, and we're going to figure out what's your next right move.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's go out to Salt Lake City.

[Joe]

And talk to Tia.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up, Tia?

[Caller (Tia)]

Hi.

[Tia]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm doing all right. How about you?

[Tia]

I'm okay. Just feeling a little nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's all good, man.

[Joe]

I'm not very good at this, so we'll both be nervous together.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Tia]

So since January, I've spent about $14,000 on shopping. And because of that, I've just been carrying so much guilt. I've done everything that I can think of to stop shopping, whether it's like, deleting the apps, deleting my card. I've been open with my husband about my spending habits. And originally, I added up everything that I spent just to kind of give myself a shock of how much I spent. And even after doing that, I would still. After a week, I'd go back to shopping again. At the beginning, when we were doing our, like, paying off our debt, I was the one with the spreadsheets and with being so stickler to our budget. And now I just can't seem to get back to that mindset. And I feel like I'm spiraling, and I just. I feel like I can't stop.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's scary to feel out of control. Like you're like your body and your mind are on a roller coaster. Right. And you can't get off, huh?

[Tia]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, so let's. Let's slap it up and flip it and reverse it. Is that cool? Can we come with this at a new angle?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

All right, so what does shopping. Let's ask this.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you buying?

[Tia]

Mainly buying clothes and jewelry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this isn't like, you're not.

[Joe]

Prepping for something and buying extra freezers or. No, this is just like, adornment stuff. So what does shopping for jewelry and for clothes, what does that get you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's helping you out in some way. What's it.

[Joe]

What's it helping you with? What's it protecting you from?

[Tia]

I think it's given me some confidence. I just feel good when I have, like, good clothes on and jewelry and just. I. For a long time. I mean, I recently, after having my daughter, I gained weight, and so I just wasn't feeling confident like I was before. So after doing all this, I feel more confident, but it just seems like I just can't stop.

[Joe]

Yes. We're past the confidence. Take me to what you just said about you had a baby and you gained weight, which is what happens when you grow a human inside of you, right?

[Tia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take me before you had this baby.

[Joe]

To times you've struggled with how you look.

[Tia]

I mean, I was very active. I had an active job. And then once I got married and move, I quit that job so that I wasn't as active as I was before. I mean, I felt a lot. Very much confident when I was more active.

[Joe]

Take me back to when you were a kid. How was little girl? Tia.

[Tia]

She struggled with her weight and how she looked.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who told Tia when Tia was young.

[Joe]

That she wasn't beautiful or she didn't look right?

[Caller (Tia)]

My mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell me about that.

[Tia]

She would comment on my weight a lot. She would tell me that I was. She makes night remarks like, oh, don't eat bread. You're gonna get fat. Or you should do sit ups. Look at your stomach.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yikes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where was dad?

[Tia]

He was there. I mean, I. I don't know if he knew that she was talking to me like that.

[Joe]

Could he not?

[Tia]

Could he. Could he not?

[Joe]

Could he not know?

[Caller (Mary)]

That's a good question.

[Tia]

I'm not sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell me about a time your dad.

[Joe]

Y' all were driving in a car somewhere or sitting at a coffee shop or just doing stuff, and he looked over and said, you're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah, he's.

[Tia]

He's done that. He's.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell me about a time, like a.

[Joe]

Like an actual memory that pops into your mind when I ask that?

[Tia]

I mean, he's told me how much he's proud of me.

[Joe]

Like, that's not what I asked. That's not what I said.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah, okay. Yes.

[Joe]

Tell me about a time he told you you're the most beautiful little girl.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

In the whole world.

[Tia]

Actually, I can't think of a time.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Tia]

Yeah, I just can't think of any.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sometimes hurt is things people say to us. Like a mom, it's always telling her.

[Joe]

Little daughter that she's too fat or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not pretty enough, the boys aren't gonna like you. Or you shouldn't eat that because.

[Joe]

Or you need to stop what you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing and start exercising because I can see your belly.

[Joe]

But sometimes hurt is also the things that weren't said to us that should have been said to us. And you got it from both sides, huh?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's take weight off the table for a second. Tell me about your relationship with your mom growing up as far back as you can remember.

[Tia]

We've fought a lot.

[Joe]

Tell me about it.

[Tia]

She was harsh with me. I'm more shy, quiet. And she would, like, get on me if, like, I wasn't talking or I was just sitting quietly, and she would, I don't know, kind of just nag at me for just being that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you still shy and quiet?

[Caller (Tia)]

A little bit, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You answered a little bit as though.

[Joe]

You'Re working on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're trying to be somebody that you're not. But.

[Tia]

Yeah, I'm trying to. I guess I'm trying to get out of that just because. Maybe because that's what I was told that I shouldn't be.

[Dave Ramsey]

What if the world needed a little bit more, A lot more people who.

[Joe]

Were reflective and thoughtful and quiet and less judgmental?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

What if I told you I want more people, like your innate natural being walking around than people who are yelling at each other, that you need to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fix this and you're not good enough and you don't look right.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So is this your first kid that you have?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes, it is.

[Joe]

Tell me about her. Or him. I don't even. I just assumed. It's a girl. Is it a girl?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes, it is.

[Tia]

She's. She's spunky, she's outgoing. She. She's so friendly and happy, and she's literally the best kid ever.

[Joe]

I mean, my kids are amazing. But I'll give you this one.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how far along into being a mom are you?

[Tia]

She's. 16 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

16 months.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you were to.

[Joe]

To describe how you are doing as a mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like if you were to be sitting in.

[Joe]

In the audience like Simon Cowell and judging you on a stage, what two or three or four words would you use to describe how you're doing is as a mom?

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't overthink it and don't judge your answer.

[Joe]

Just let it rip.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Tia]

I'm kind. I'm comforting.

[Joe]

Those are adjectives. I want you to give me performances. Like performance scores.

[Tia]

Like numbers.

[Joe]

Well, I mean, you just. Just let it rip. You just gave me personality traits or character traits. I want you to judge your performance as a mom so far.

[Caller (Tia)]

Oh.

[Tia]

I.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Tia]

I'm thinking too much. There are times where I do, I guess, get overwhelmed and I do snap at her, but I always want to be there to comfort her when she's upset.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm trying to get beneath.

[Joe]

I'm trying to get beneath the qualifier voice.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Joe]

Let me ask it in a different way.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you a good mom?

[Joe]

Yes or no?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Tia]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you feel good in your role as a mom?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Joe]

You think you're hitting it out of the park?

[Caller (Tia)]

No.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there any part of you that's.

[Joe]

Scared that you are going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Treat your daughter like you were treated?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Joe]

Tell me about that.

[Caller (Tia)]

Like I said, my.

[Tia]

Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're okay. Take a breath. You're good.

[Tia]

My mom was like harsh.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Tia]

So sometimes I felt myself being harsh with her. And I know she. Every few little. She doesn't understand, but. Yeah, I just. I don't. I just get frustrated with her.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know why? Because you're a human being. And 16 months old are both beautiful and fun and they blow up everything.

[Joe]

Your body, your marriage, your finances.

[Dave Ramsey]

They blow up everything.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yet you still have this mother over your shoulder with her arms crossed, judging everything you do. You don't look right after being a mom. You're kind and compassionate and you're doing a good job, but you snap once and then mom's right there over your.

[Joe]

Shoulder going, see, I told you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now in addition to telling you you need to do more sit ups.

[Joe]

And look more beautiful because your husband's going to leave you, you're also not doing that right either.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fair.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what if I told you and I'm.

[Joe]

I'm making something up here, Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What if I told you that maybe your spending is keeping you is. Is. Is acting as a pretty good buffer? It's a way to distract yourself or.

[Joe]

Numb out from that feeling of I don't want this to happen again.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's really painful to enter back.

[Joe]

Into that relationship with this little girl.

[Tia]

Yeah, it's accurate.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so blaming the spending, trying to.

[Joe]

White knuckle through spending. Like, I'm gonna tell you, like, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotta stop doing that.

[Joe]

Right. It's gonna, it's gonna cause all kind of pain in your marriage. And like, there's a math problem that you're creating.

[Dave Ramsey]

And at the end of the day, you know as well as I do.

[Joe]

That this comes out in shame, comes out in a bunch of different ways. You might start hiding and your husband will be like, where's my wife? Or you'll snap at him, or he'll.

[Dave Ramsey]

Say, hey, we gotta stop. And you'll feel judged again. You'll come after him or you'll snap at this little girl. So we have to stop. We have to stop spending. But until we get to the root of what is spending getting you, what is just this constant search for I.

[Joe]

Need to be beautiful, I want to feel good inside.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is that actually trying to protect you from? What are some things your husband has said to you?

[Caller (Tia)]

Nothing.

[Tia]

I mean, he's, he's like the kindest, sweetest person ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

He might be nice, but it's not kind to watch somebody that he loves.

[Joe]

A, like, begin to erode the security, the financial security of a family, but also just constantly being, struggling in pain, right?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah, that's true.

[Joe]

He might be really nice and not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Want to be non confrontational, but sometimes.

[Joe]

That'S not kind, right?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah, that's true.

[Tia]

That's true. Yeah, he's very non confrontational.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, when's the last time he looked.

[Joe]

At you and said, my God, you're so beautiful?

[Tia]

I think it was on Sunday.

[Joe]

Okay, so he's starting to change that narrative inside, right?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or he may not be changing the narrative.

[Joe]

He's trying.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah, he is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or weirdly, he might just think you're.

[Joe]

Beautiful, which is hard for you to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Internalize when you've got however many years.

[Joe]

Of your mom telling you that you're not.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so some of this is going to be you sitting down with your husband and saying, look, I'm starting to hear my mom's voice again, judging me for how I'm parenting, how I look, how lovable I am, and.

[Joe]

I want.

[Dave Ramsey]

You to walk alongside me and I'm going to give you permission to begin to call out when you see me or experience me or hear me talking to myself in a way that's just simply not true. Does he trust. Is your husband trustworthy in that way?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The second thing is I want you.

[Joe]

To take the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've probably heard me say this a million times on this show, but I want you to write nine year old you a letter and say nine year olds are allowed to be pudgy.

[Joe]

My God.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nine year olds aren't supposed to be doing sit ups because their tummies are too big. They're supposed to be out running around playing, having fun. And then to really change addictive action, you're gonna have to put some major.

[Joe]

Breaks, some major hurdles in front of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you said you've cut up cards, you've deleted the apps, whatever. How do you end up going back.

[Joe]

To jewelry and clothing websites and things like that?

[Tia]

I just download them again and put everything back?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What I want you to begin to do is two things. Number one, when you start to download everything, I want you to remember this conversation.

[Joe]

And I want you to, before I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Going to give you permission, pull them back out, pull your phone back out and. And download those apps.

[Joe]

But before you do that, I want.

[Dave Ramsey]

You to promise me and all the listeners that you're going to exhale and take a deep breath and exhale three times.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that you will carry a small little journal with you in your purse or in. In the. Wherever you find yourself downloading this stuff again. And I want you to write down what you are feeling in this particular moment.

[Joe]

I don't feel beautiful right now. I feel bored right now. I feel scared right now. I don't feel lovable. I don't feel sexual anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like whatever the things you're wrestling with.

[Joe]

I want you to write those things down.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's the second thing. I want to challenge you for 30.

[Joe]

Days to go caustic. You know what that means?

[Tia]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to go scorched earth. I want you to either turn your.

[Joe]

Phone completely off and put it in a drawer for 30 days.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to challenge yourself to.

[Joe]

Just not download apps for 30 days.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And at the end of 30 days, if you want to download them again, download them again.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And before you download them, I want you to do one more thing that's going to be really annoying.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to get a picture of your mom. Do you have one in your house somewhere?

[Tia]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to get a picture out. I don't want you to look at her and say, mom, I'm doing this for you.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay?

[Joe]

Because deep down I think you may have been right about some of the mean, awful things you said to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

And hopefully that puts the brakes on. I'm not too.

[Joe]

I'm not giving you that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm changing my family tree.

[Joe]

Not just financially, but I'm changing the way we talk to each other in this house.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you do those things?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes, I can.

[Joe]

Okay, so let's come up with a plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Also. Hang on the line. I'm gonna hook you up with the Every Dollar app.

[Joe]

It's the budgeting app that I use, that my friends and community use, that we use here at the. At the office. It's gonna. I'm give it to you for a year. Is the Every Dollar app.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it links your purchases to your.

[Joe]

Bank, but also to your husband, and you all can keep each other accountable.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if we get to a point in 45 days, 60 days, where I've gotta.

[Joe]

I've gotta take my name off, I gotta disconnect this spitting app. Husband, I want you to change the online code to the bank. So I can't just like, we're gonna.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put some major hurdles in front of.

[Joe]

Us, but I have a feeling that linking these things together is gonna really help.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then going scored shirts for 30.

[Joe]

Days, just breaking this pattern. Anybody can white knuckle anything for 30 days. Proud of you, Tia.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is one of those moments you got a 16 month old girl and we talked about this like, I'm gonna change my family tree. And we try to grind through some stuff.

[Joe]

This is about you making peace with man. You were treated like hell growing up. And I'll be damned if my daughter's gonna experience this too. And by the way, from the sounds of it, you're a great, great mom. It's an honor to get to talk to you. We come back, a woman asks how to begin leaving her husband with a gambling problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Joe]

Harvard bar in Boston. That didn't sound right at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Talk to Mary. What's up Mary?

[Caller (Mary)]

Hi. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm great. How about you?

[Caller (Tia)]

Good. Good.

[Caller (Mary)]

I am calling for some advice. I've been married for 15 years and my husband has a severe gambling problem which also includes him being extremely sneaky and lying a lot. And he's really financially devast destroyed my credit and I'm just. I'm just tired of it and I'm over it. And I need to know if I'm being irrational wanting to get out of this marriage. And I also don't know how to move forward with doing it affordability wise.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's.

[Caller (Mary)]

It's a hard situation.

We have a 10 year old child with special needs. So I'm just kind of looking to see if I'm thinking I'm on the right track and making the right decision.

[Joe]

No, I mean you have a partner who's making you incredibly unsafe in a bunch of different ways. And so that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

That's that.

[Joe]

Again, I take a broad view of fidelity.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Joe]

And that that is not being a person of fidelity. That's a person who is refusing to get help for a pretty traumatic traumatic traumas used overused I think but a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Devastating as you said, to use your.

[Joe]

Words, Dev struggle with addiction. That is not just a personal thing. He's destroying you. He's destroying the path ahead for your special needs kid. He's destroying the trust, all that stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no, I don't think you're crazy at all. I think you're crazy at all. I do think this is the, the.

[Joe]

Scary reality that women in your situation Face often is there's a math problem to solve here.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right, Right.

[Caller (Mary)]

That's my biggest hurdle is the math problem. The little that I do get for contribution.

[Joe]

Wait, wait, what does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean?

[Caller (Mary)]

Well, it means, I mean I pay the majority, I pay our rent, I pay my own bills, my car, my own car payment, my own, you know, any credit card bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're already on your own.

[Caller (Mary)]

Right. But he does pay for, you know, our weekly food shopping and pays our utilities. And I wouldn't be able to sustain all of that on my own income. And, and we're still behind in utilities because half of his paycheck every week disappears to. I don't know, he has a story every week and obviously I know where it's going, but the little help I do get, I just can't do it all on my own without I financially.

[Tia]

Can'T do it all.

[Joe]

Sure. So I think it's, this is me. I'm just going to talk to you just direct. Normally I would, I would talk to.

[Dave Ramsey]

You for a lot longer, get some.

[Joe]

More context here, but I'm going to be pretty direct. Is that cool?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joe]

The, the thought of I'm out, like.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm over it, I'm done.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a sense that I'm gonna separate from this and get on with my life. I just need to figure out this.

[Joe]

500 gap or this 700 gap.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whenever you leave a 15 year marriage, you have to understand I am leveling the ground of the life.

[Joe]

I know. What does that mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

That means for the safety of me and my child, we may have to.

[Joe]

Go to a one bedroom apartment for the next four years. We may have to fill in the blank. He may have to go to a different school, your child or she may have to stop seeing the three different professionals and go to a different sort of care.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like it's, it's, it's about leveling from the floor. Not say not.

[Joe]

I, I live in this house, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Drive this car, I have these types of insurances, we have this type of.

[Joe]

Support and I just need a gap financially, you know what I'm saying?

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when, when you talk about leaving a 15 year marriage, especially with a.

[Joe]

Somebody who's not well and who gaslights.

[Dave Ramsey]

You out of your mind about how they're not well and is willing to take you and your special needs child.

[Joe]

Down, you have to understand, I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

I am wiping the deck on the.

[Joe]

Life as I know it.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right.

[Joe]

And I have to reverse Engineer reality here.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you may be in a situation.

[Joe]

Where you're living in a house where your mortgage is less than rent. That may be the case, but maybe not. It's just a matter of we're going.

[Dave Ramsey]

To have to sell a house, we're.

[Joe]

Going to have to possibly move. I might have to get a new job. It's all of that stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

So tell me where you are financially.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yep.

[Caller (Mary)]

So we, We. We did own a house at one point, but we sold our home because we needed to move to a different part of this. Of the state so we could get my daughter into the right schooling. So we now do rent, and our rent is unfortunately significantly higher than our mortgage was because we did this during COVID and things were just kind of crazy and insane. So, you know, our rent is higher. He doesn't have a car currently because his second car was just repossessed a couple weeks ago. The first one I was a cosigner on. So I have an issue with. We've been established in our apartment for a few years now, and I no longer have the credit to be able to apply somewhere else for a new apartment or even the money to, you know, do a first and last somewhere. So I feel stuck in that regard. And I also, you know, even if I do get a little bit of money from him, from child support, I don't even have the money to file court fees for divorce and child support and custody and things like that. So it's like I can't even legally move forward because I'm so strapped with, with money issues.

[Dave Ramsey]

Would he fight you on a divorce?

[Caller (Mary)]

No, I don't think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

If he won't fight you, there's a.

[Joe]

Way to do it very inexpensively.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Joe]

I mean, it's. I, I've. I've several colleagues who've. Who have gotten divorced. They shook hands.

[Dave Ramsey]

They.

[Joe]

And they. I mean, it was like 400 bucks. But they didn't. They didn't fight each other.

[Dave Ramsey]

They went down to the court, they downloaded some. Some papers online, filled them out, shook.

[Joe]

Hands and just called it. They acted like adults in the separation.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would be stunned if he let.

[Joe]

You walk away like that because you're his gravy train, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe he will, or maybe he's. His shame is so overwhelming that he.

[Joe]

Just needs somebody to stop the boat.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. And maybe he'd let you go. But if he would, there's ways to do it very, very inexpensively.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Joe]

There's also community resources, and I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know them off the Top of my head in Boston.

[Joe]

But I would research those community resources and there's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, there's millions of women who get trapped. And I make just enough money to pay my rent and to get my kid over to school, but I don't make enough money to qualify for some of these programs.

[Joe]

You're going to have to just figure that. That math out for yourself.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have family connections there in, in your area?

[Caller (Tia)]

I do, I do.

[Caller (Mary)]

I'm close with my family.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It may be for six months or a year. I gotta move in with family.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that is awful.

[Joe]

I wouldn't wish that on anybody and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not even because family's great, but it just uproots everything. What type of special needs does your child have?

[Caller (Mary)]

My daughter is deaf and she's on the autism spectrum.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay, how.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's her, what's her. Trying to use a non nerd word here?

[Joe]

How social is she?

[Caller (Mary)]

She's very social.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Caller (Mary)]

Very social.

[Joe]

All right. So she gets around and can, can make a way.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay. All right.

[Joe]

What is her ability to, to grasp. Grasp social situations? Could you talk to her about what's going on?

[Caller (Mary)]

I don't think she would quite understand that we do communicate via sign language, but I know, I feel like there is a little bit of a language barrier. Her school is very good at helping communicate with things when, you know, if a family member passes away, they've been good in the past helping communicate these types of things.

[Tia]

So I'm trying to get assistance so.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you got some support, just somebody to sit with you.

[Joe]

I said, hey, we're moving into Uncle Joey's house or grandma's house for, for a while. We're going to have a fun adventure.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's going to be different and new and Dad's really sick and so he's going to go get some help that he needs.

[Joe]

Like how.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is this kid?

[Caller (Mary)]

My daughter's 10.

[Joe]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's varying degrees.

[Joe]

And I'll let you be the expert on your child, obviously, and get some support.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, it's, it's that. And if you haven't already, I would freeze my credit.

[Caller (Tia)]

I have.

[Joe]

Okay, great.

[Dave Ramsey]

So nobody can take out anything against you anymore.

[Joe]

And then it's just about looking at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your credit report and see what kind.

[Joe]

Of mess you have.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's, it's a mess.

[Joe]

Tell me, how much of a mess. How, how much in the hole are you?

[Caller (Mary)]

Well, I mean, my bills in my name are good and up to date, but probably outside of my car Payment. I probably have about $10,000 in credit card debt overall, and then I have a $3,000 a month rent, but I have repossession from my husband's car being repossessed and just things that have been late.

[Caller (Tia)]

But.

[Caller (Mary)]

But the part of the problem is, too, is that my husband for many, many years was a 1099 employee and never filed taxes appropriately. And now we owe about $65,000 to the IRS. And I'm very afraid that my check is. Then I'm going to be. My paycheck is going to be garnished at some point because it's so many years old, and I don't even know where to begin with that, which is completely separate. But it's, you know, it's just all cumulative. All of it's building up between, you know, him spending all this money on bookies and online gambling and everything else.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I need you to do something for me that's gonna be very, very hard.

[Joe]

Okay. I want you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this is going to sound nuts.

[Joe]

And we're going to come back to this in a year.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Every second you spend going back being angry and enraged at this man you married has blown your life up. So much is a. Is.

[Joe]

Is a.

[Dave Ramsey]

An ounce of energy you're not using.

[Joe]

To move forward and save yourself and your child.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the more energy or discussions you have about what he did with bookies and all of this and the repossession, you have a serious crisis on your hands.

[Joe]

Let's just get to solving the crisis.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there's part of you that's going.

[Joe]

To have the grief about the failed marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Part of you is going to have the grief about this man that instead.

[Joe]

Of being a husband who lifted his.

[Dave Ramsey]

Family up and took care of his.

[Joe]

Family, has absolutely thrown an anchor around.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your neck and dropped you in the.

[Joe]

Middle of the ocean.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. All that. That will come in waves. That will. But we're going to, for the next year, do the best we can to.

[Joe]

Get out of this crisis.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Caller (Mary)]

That's what I need to do.

[Joe]

How much do you owe?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, how much do you make?

[Caller (Mary)]

I make. My salary is close to 75, 000 a year. From my individual to combined, we make about 150 on paper.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're.

[Joe]

Again, we're gonna go 75.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're gonna look at that number.

[Joe]

And it's gonna be half of what.

[Dave Ramsey]

The fantasy has been for a long time, and we're gonna be pissed off about that. And then we're Gonna go move forward.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I am super great.

[Joe]

I'm. I'm. It relieves me that you make 75K.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Joe]

And that you have family support.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Joe]

That's pretty awesome. It is not awesome that you might.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have to call your mom or your.

[Joe]

Father or one of your sisters and say, I gotta move in for a year.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right.

[Joe]

And I'll pay you a thousand bucks, and that's Gonna free up $2,000 for you.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a buddy of mine actually one.

[Joe]

Time sat down and called 10 apartment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Complexes in a major metropolitan city with a credit score of 0, and 9.

[Joe]

Out of 10 of them accepted him.

[Caller (Tia)]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Joe]

And so there's this fallacy that you have to have.

[Dave Ramsey]

He did have to have first month for.

[Joe]

In all of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think first and last in several. So it might take you several months of paying mom a thousand bucks a month, and your mom might say, absolutely not.

[Joe]

You're not paying me anything. Who knows?

[Dave Ramsey]

But I'm gonna take that 2,000 bucks and I'm gonna scratch and claw or I'm gonna take 1500 of that, and I'm going to save up this money so that I can get first in last month's rent, and I'm going to knock on doors at a safe apartment complex in six months or in a year. And then we're gonna. I'm gonna hook you up with a tax pros.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I work at a place called Ramsey Solutions, and they've got relationships with.

[Joe]

Tax pros in your area.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can go to ramseysolutions.com tax and I want you to put your zip code in there, and they'll send you several tax professionals, and I want you to reach out to one of them.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Joe]

Or reach out to all of them and interview them.

[Dave Ramsey]

They work for you.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're going to be able to walk you through.

[Joe]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you're.

[Joe]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not liable for this, or you are liable for this, or we're going to file this or whatever.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that might be 500 bucks. It might be 5,000 bucks. 5,000 bucks against $75,000 of wage garnishment plus penalties is worth that every second, right?

[Caller (Tia)]

Every. Yep.

[Tia]

Every second all day long.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so let's solve this problem in order of importance. Importance. Number one, you have to find a place to live.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number two, you have to make sure you've got food and your child has food.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number three, you got to keep your.

[Joe]

Transportation because you got to get to and from work. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're going to go down. You have to have water and electricity. We're going to cover those four walls.

[Joe]

They were going to deal with ego.

[Dave Ramsey]

They were going to deal with pride. You make 75, 000 bucks. How old are you?

[Caller (Mary)]

I am 46.

[Dave Ramsey]

46 year olds making 75 grand should not be living with her parents.

[Joe]

And yet here we are.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right.

[Joe]

There's some ego there, there's some frustration, there's some anger. All that's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

But we're gonna go do the next right thing in order of importance.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay. We're gonna.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going to sit down with husband.

[Joe]

And say, I'm leaving, I'm moving out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because that's the decision I've made, by the way.

[Joe]

I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't be held responsible for you.

[Joe]

Deciding to end your marriage.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Caller (Tia)]

I know.

[Joe]

I'm assuming you're down that road. I could hear it.

[Caller (Mary)]

I'm there.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm. I'm there.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you could print off the, the papers, you could fill them out and.

[Joe]

You could hand them to them.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If there's retirement accounts out there that are 400,000 bucks and you're like, you're.

[Joe]

Not walking away with all that met Whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet if you're in the house.

[Joe]

Of a gambler, there's no money left anywhere, right?

[Caller (Mary)]

No, there really is. And I have a very small 401k that unfortunately I've taken loans against to try to cover rent in the past and whatnot. So, I mean, minimum maximum 20,000 maybe.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Joe]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I want you to also be honest about. I'm gonna send you Financial Peace University. It's an online course.

[Joe]

It's got eight. I want you to watch it start to finish.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what it's going to do, it's going to empower you. Like you haven't been empowered before.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it feels like the wall is crashing down. A lot of that is rage.

[Joe]

A lot of this anger. You make 75k.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yep.

[Joe]

And you have family support that, that puts you way ahead of a lot of folks. Not going to be easy, but it's put you way ahead.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Caller (Tia)]

Right. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're struggling with gambling, I'm getting.

[Joe]

This call over and over and over and over again. Make today be the day you call somebody. You got to go to meetings, you've.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got to put some significant hurdles in.

[Joe]

Front of yourself, and you gotta get well from this catastrophic addiction. It's destroying everybody. Go get the help that you need.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you so much for the call. Mary, we come back.

[Joe]

A woman asks how to deal with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her fiance's control over how she dresses.

[Joe]

I can already tell you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Run.

[Joe]

We'll be right back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Poncho is back. As a supporter of this show, and I'm super jazzed about it. If you've seen me on this show or on stages across the country, I'm almost always wearing Poncho shirts.

[Joe]

I got one on right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wear Poncho when I'm fishing in the Gulf. And I was wearing Poncho shirts all weekend while I was mowing my little miniature farm out here in Nashville. I'm telling you, you should wear Poncho, too, because Poncho makes the absolute best outdoor performance shirts. And I also wear them inside for men, period. I love Poncho's denims and their insanely soft flannels, but now that it's a million degrees outside, I'm wearing Poncho's ultralight shirts, too. They're lightweight and breathable, and they're still tough enough to handle whatever chaos my day brings. Everything from travel to being up to my chest, fishing in the surf or doing outside labor. These shirts move with you, not against you. And they dry fast and they don't cling or bunch up. And they come in slim or regular fits so you don't look like a circus tent or a sausage link. Now, here's what I want you to do. Head over to ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney right now and check out the selection of my favorite shirts, like the Laramie and the Buffalo. Right now, new customers get 10 bucks off your first purchase when you sign up with your email. That's $10 [e-mail] Deloney Poncho is the best. Go check them out. All right, Indianapolis, let's talk to Lolo. What's up, Lola?

[Caller (Tia)]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

How we doing?

[Caller (Mary)]

I'm. I'm here. I'm good. How are you?

[Joe]

I'm here. I'm. I'm present and alive.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm doing great. What's going on?

[Caller (Mary)]

So I have a fiance who's controlling about a lot of things, but my main thing is what are some ways that I can help, I guess him become more accepting of my clothing choices. I don't dress provocative or exposing as I'm a business casual corporate job, but he has a lot of issues with leggings or maxi dresses because if I wear those, then I'm just asking for attention from other men and acting single. Oh, sister, I know this isn't the only issue I, I was about to.

[Joe]

Say I 100 get that. So let's put clothing aside.

[Caller (Mary)]

Okay.

[Joe]

Wow. I'm taking a deep breath because I tend to overreact and I'm trying to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Be present with you just like you're, you're present. Right. What are other ways he acts?

[Joe]

Controlling.

[Caller (Mary)]

So I'm the only one that works. We have four kids. He watches them and you know, that's what we initially agreed to. However, you know, I, he, he was aware he needed to get a part time job. He didn't. So I took it upon myself to get one. And he basically told me if I did that then we weren't going to be in a relationship. And I told him, well, I was going to take the job. I need to do what I need for to pat to have my bills paid.

[Tia]

Basically.

[Caller (Mary)]

That's one thing. Like who I talk to.

[Tia]

At work.

[Caller (Mary)]

If I need assistance with something, I reach out. And if a male helps me, then, you know, that's a problem. So it's a lot of like, you know, you can't spend money on this bill because I had it planned to use for trading stocks. And it's just a lot of like, who I can talk to, who's allowed in our life, what I wear, you know, what I can and cannot post on Facebook. And so it's a lot, a lot of things. And we've been together for nine years. And I'm honestly at my point because I don't want my kids to have to witness this.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are your kids?

[Caller (Mary)]

My oldest is 7 and then 4, 3 and 1.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know that I will talk to a person who's carrying more guilt in their life than you.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm not saying this to pile this on.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to be very delicate, but.

[Joe]

Your kids are absorbing every second of this.

[Caller (Mary)]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not to mention what they're.

[Joe]

What the air they breathe while you're gone at work, working both of these jobs because the person you've had kids with is such a freaking bum.

[Caller (Mary)]

Yeah, it's hard because his version of working is wanting to trade stocks and he hasn't had much luck with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know why? Because nobody has luck trading stocks, contrary.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

To what Tick Tock tells you.

[Caller (Mary)]

I, Yeah, I know. And like he just tells them mom isn't coming home. So it's, it's hard because then I get home and they're like, well, why did, why did he say this? And so it's, they don't understand obviously.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you Lola, this is a loaded question. Why. Why are you marrying this guy?

[Tia]

So.

[Caller (Mary)]

We're not married.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but you're. You're engaged. You call him your fiance. Why are you going to marry him?

[Caller (Mary)]

I'm not. We. He proposed in October, and he basically did it because he said he thought I was going to change and I didn't deserve it, and I don't deserve my job or my kids. But I'm. I'm at my point because I can't let my kids go through that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Caller (Mary)]

The most important thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, stop, stop, stop. You are worth more than this. And if I'm the first person who's ever told you that, I am heartbroken for the people that raised you, for the people, for the world you grew up in. You are worth so much more than this.

[Caller (Mary)]

It's hard when he's obviously saying different. I don't have a lot of family support.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, clearly. Because I. I can't imagine a man like this in my family system, and any. With a man in this family. All the guys at the booth are shaking their head like, I can't imagine this.

[Caller (Mary)]

Yeah. And it's hard to save up money to.

[Joe]

I know.

[Caller (Mary)]

Move somewhere else, because I'm.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah, I know.

[Caller (Mary)]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it is very rare that I say what I'm about to say, but.

[Joe]

You got to get out of this mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I'm not telling you something you.

[Joe]

Don'T know and haven't thought about.

[Caller (Mary)]

Yeah. It's just hard because I don't have a plan and I don't have anywhere to go.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Yeah.

[Caller (Tia)]

So.

[Caller (Mary)]

And thankfully, we're not married, so we don't have to go through the divorce process.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We all been together for eight years, and you got four kids together, so there'll be a. There will be a legal process.

[Caller (Mary)]

Right. Yeah, I know that I kind of have that in plan, but whenever I bring up, like, trying to figure out when we would have the kids. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just. I get called toxic, and I'm that bitter baby mama, but I'm really just wanting something legally.

[Joe]

Okay. I need.

[Dave Ramsey]

I need you to. I need you to consider something.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't make you do anything.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to answer a few questions for me.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Has your husband been a person of integrity? Does he tell you the truth?

[Joe]

Yes or no?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he does tell you the truth.

[Caller (Mary)]

Well, I would like to think he's truthful.

[Caller (Tia)]

Wow. I guess.

[Caller (Mary)]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, let's. Let's just.

[Joe]

Let's Just be honest, okay?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he tell you the truth? That you're just a baby mama, you're.

[Joe]

A leech, you don't. You don't show up for your kids.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Tia]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is he been a man of integrity?

[Caller (Mary)]

No.

[Joe]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is he a man who is thoughtful about the finances of his family? No. Is he a man who supports his wife while she's working one and a.

[Joe]

Half jobs and he's at home hanging out with the kids?

[Tia]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is he taking care of the emotional and spiritual and physical needs of your.

[Joe]

Four kids and that includes being a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good example, getting them out and about teaching them how to honor their mother?

[Joe]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's stop going back to that same person who doesn't tell you the truth, who doesn't live an honorable life.

[Joe]

Who doesn't honor and respect his wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's stop going back to that source for information or advice on what to do next. That person has disqualified them for any input moving forward. And I know that's a terrifying feeling for you because you got no family and friends support.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right? Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he control your direct deposit?

[Caller (Mary)]

No, I have a direct deposit going to my own account. He's not on it.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what we have to do is create a sub account there and begin to save up money for an apartment, first month's rent. Will that be fun with four kids? No, it'll be a disaster.

[Joe]

And that's the world you're in right now. I'm going to hook you up with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three months with my friends at Better Help for free. And when you get on there, you've.

[Joe]

Got a history of trauma, don't you?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Caller (Mary)]

And he likes to hold it against me. I know he does it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to repeat after me.

[Joe]

He does not get a vote.

[Caller (Mary)]

He said he doesn't get a vote.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Joe]

No. I want you to say that he doesn't get a vote.

[Caller (Mary)]

He doesn't get a vote when he.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tells you you're not a good wife or not a good girlfriend.

[Joe]

He doesn't get a vote when he.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tells you that you're a leech and a bum. He doesn't get a vote when he brings up past trauma, past assault. Then you whisper to yourself, he doesn't.

[Joe]

Get a vote.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because no man, no.

[Joe]

Man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Holds past trauma over the woman they love.

[Joe]

Over any woman. My God, women I hate. I wouldn't bring up that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get what I'm saying?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I need you to hear me say.

[Joe]

This is unhealthy and this is not normal. And your gut reaction, your gut Feelings.

[Dave Ramsey]

About all this are right, and probably.

[Joe]

Your whole life, people have told you what you feel and body autonomy, all that stuff is not yours. And I want to. I want to hand it right back to you. It is yours.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Your next steps will feel scary. They'll feel lonely.

[Joe]

They'll feel isolating.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there anybody in your sphere, maybe somebody at work, a professional mentor who's a woman, a couple of colleagues at.

[Joe]

Work that you could take out for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Coffee and just say, here's what I'm experiencing, and I need somebody to walk with me through this next season.

[Caller (Mary)]

I probably could, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. No buts.

[Joe]

No buts.

[Caller (Mary)]

I. I think I do have people. Work is already aware of my situation, but there's nothing that they can. But, yeah, I. You know, I probably could do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's nothing that they, quote, unquote, can do.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they can't sit with you and listen. They can give you advice when the other. The other voice in your ear is telling you that all of this is your fault and you're a terrible person and you're not beautiful, and, oh, yeah, that guy did this because you.

[Joe]

All that insanity. God, dude, I'm. I'm getting mad on your behalf, Lola.

[Dave Ramsey]

But here's the thing. And this is heartbreaking for me, I can't get more upset and motivated and mad about this than you. This has to come from a place.

[Joe]

Of, I am worth more than this. My kids deserve safety and security and a man that will honor them and me.

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so there's. There's an old phrase that I got from just an amazing man, David Kessler. And here's the phrase, grief demands a witness. You have to sit down with other.

[Joe]

People and just explain what's going on.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they have to be people who you can trust.

[Joe]

And hopefully you have a worker, colleague.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or two and tell them, I know y' all can't do anything about this. I just need somebody to sit with me as I begin to make some pretty significant changes in my life, because I'm going out on a limb for.

[Joe]

The first time, and it's scary.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I can almost guarantee you you'll have people come out of the woodwork to support you.

[Joe]

You'll have people say, I'll show up and help you move.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can stay at my back apartment.

[Joe]

In the back of my garage.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Like you.

[Joe]

Like, people will show up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller (Mary)]

I guess it's just more so, like, embarrassing that I have to go through it and that I've dealt with it so long. So it's Just hard for me to open up on those type of things because I don't want anyone to look.

[Tia]

At me any less because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen to me, Lola. They're gonna look at you just like I'm. They're gonna hear you like I'm hearing.

[Joe]

You, with open arms and open hands. And if they don't, Good God almighty. If they don't, then we're going on to the next.

[Dave Ramsey]

That embarrassment is probably less embarrassment and probably more shame. And if you lived a life of sexual abuse, if you lived a life of physical abuse, if you lived a life of parents walking out on you, if you live a life whether where a guy is just a total bump on a log, shame is the.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

That.

[Dave Ramsey]

That constant going back to the mirror.

[Joe]

And saying, I'm getting what I deserve. This is happening because of me.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not embarrassment.

[Joe]

That's shame. And shame is a powerful, powerful demon.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you've ever listened to this show, the times I've said it is.

[Joe]

Time to get out is very, very rare.

[Caller (Mary)]

Yeah, I listen to it a lot, okay?

[Joe]

So I'm telling you it's time.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the deal. I want you to hang on the line. I'm hook you up with better help so you can get some licensed professional counseling care. Because this is going to be a journey for you, and probably it's going to be equal parts reality, like math problems, right? Like financial. And also it's going to be very.

[Joe]

Challenging emotionally because that guy knows where all your. Your. Your red buttons are, doesn't he? He knows how to bury you really quickly, doesn't he?

[Tia]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're gonna need some professional care. And I'll hook you up at least the first several months of that.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Caller (Mary)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you call this counselor, I want you to promise me two things.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number one, I want you to tell the whole truth, unfiltered.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're used to shame, embarrassment, whatever. You're used to kind of hedging the truth. I want you to tell the full truth.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

There will be some freedom in that.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

The second thing is I want you to say, I need an action plan. I need you to walk with me as we co create an action plan.

[Joe]

Together.

[Dave Ramsey]

For me to get to freedom.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Okay?

[Joe]

I just need to tell you I'm so sorry, man.

[Caller (Mary)]

It's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. No, no, no, it's not.

[Caller (Mary)]

No, it's not okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to make me feel better.

[Joe]

I'm okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know your whole life is about making the other people in the room feel okay. You don't got to do that with me. It's not okay.

[Joe]

All right, dear?

[Caller (Tia)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You call me any time.

[Joe]

You got it.

[Caller (Tia)]

Okay, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. It's been an honor to talk to you. Okay, hang on the line here. We'll get you hooked up with some of these resources. Also, you know what? I'm also going to send you financial Peace University as well. I want you to walk through this. You're gonna have to learn alone how.

[Joe]

To do some of these financial things and get caught up. And this will free you as well. Oh, my goodness. Hey, we'll be right back.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller (Tia)]

All right.

[Kelly]

Have you ever heard the term, like, hot girl summer in terms like that?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, have we met?

[Kelly]

Have you ever had a hot girl summer?

[Joe]

Yeah, dude.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, Keeler, Joe.

[Joe]

We, like, we're having a Hot girl summer right now. What is a hot girl summer?

[Kelly]

It's probably not the one to ask because I'm also not in this age range, but it's just the whole idea of, like, you know, summertime, and we're gonna do all these things and have a hot girl summer or whatever the term du jour is.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does that mean? Like, we're gonna wear, like, bikinis and go to the beach. We're gonna like, go line dancing down on Broadway. Like, what does that mean? Is it just like, YOLO is just like a saying?

[Kelly]

Yes, basically. Well, the new one for 2025 is therapy bro Summer. And this is one I can get on board with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Therapy Bro Summer.

[Kelly]

Therapy Bro.

[Joe]

As a bro.

[Dave Ramsey]

Am I bro?

[Joe]

I don't think I am, am I?

[Kelly]

You can be.

[Joe]

Damn, Gina, that hurts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so as a bro already, I'm.

[Joe]

Out on Therapy Bro Summer. What does that mean?

[Kelly]

So according to a study that was released this past May, 55% of Gen Z women refuse to date a man if he's not at least willing to go to therapy. And 45% people found that people that go to therapy are more attractive. And that number goes to 55% for millennial women. So the whole idea of this is trying to get men to go talk to somebody. Talk to somebody. So this is when I can get.

[Joe]

Behind, I can get behind that.

[Kelly]

Yes, because basically it makes people more attractive when they're willing to. When they have a little self knowledge.

[Dave Ramsey]

Deal with their crap.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So this quote says, self actualization, emotional literacy, authentic confidence, humility, and the ability to make healthy choices will naturally make someone an attractive mate and a better partner in the relationship, romantic or otherwise.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so therapy. I guess so. I guess my caveat to that would.

[Joe]

Be therapy can be an avenue to those things. But I wonder if the. Underneath all of that is you're a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Person who will go seek new skills when you realize the things that you're doing aren't working.

[Joe]

Is that fair?

[Kelly]

Yes, because it said that unfortunately, a lot of men still consider going to therapy weak.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Kelly]

And especially those over 35. When real men face their demons, they don't run away from them.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I remember, I remember asking, he's in his 60s, and I'm painting this.

[Joe]

Picture an insanely wealthy guy with, who's a big gun collector and like, all this stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he was talking to me about going to.

[Joe]

Going to marriage counseling back in, like in the 80s. I was like, dude, dudes didn't go to marriage counseling in the 80s.

[Dave Ramsey]

And his response was so important, it changed my perception. And what he said said was I didn't have the skills, I needed to go get these skills. And it sounded as though he was.

[Joe]

Like, dude, my air conditioner went out.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I don't know how to fix it. So I called somebody who has that toolkit and that set of skills to fix it. But it was just very matter of fact. And I often think that men look.

[Joe]

At therapy as.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like you said, like weak as coward. But if you look at it as I don't have a set of skills, like we talked to one of the calls today. Like, I am burning through my family's.

[Joe]

Money because I have a gambling addiction.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I don't have the skill set.

[Joe]

To get out of this. I need to go get some more skills. I need to talk to somebody.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm struggling with pornography, with cheating on my spouse. I find myself flying off the handle.

[Joe]

In rage at my four year old.

[Interviewer/Host Assistant]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't have a skill set, so.

[Joe]

Maybe that's a way to destigmatize it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I think the call out here is, is important. If you're 30 or 35 and you can't find anyone to date, there may. It may be you. You may be undatable. That marriage book I'm working on right.

[Joe]

Now, like one of the chapters, like the headings will change.

[Dave Ramsey]

But right now it's millions of unmarriable men who are trapped in this loop.

[Caller (Tia)]

Of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody wants to be around me yet. I'm angry all the time. I have to be right all the time. I have to fix everybody all the time. I am like fill in the blank. All these different actions and, and thought process and behaviors.

[Joe]

But I guess for whatever it's worth, I see a therapist. So I don't, I don't know. There's the bravest guys I know go say, hey, I don't know how to do a thing and go get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you say, Joe?

[Joe]

Oh, I thought you were about to say something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Therapy Joe's about to be like, Therapy Bros for life.

[Caller (Tia)]

Ah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Kelly, you're in support of a hot girl Summer, which you're a huge.

[Joe]

Fan of, and B, therapy.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it? Therapy Bros Therapy Bro.

[Kelly]

Summer. I'm definitely in support of that. I'm just for that for anyone that needs something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Care. Yeah.

[Kelly]

That needs, you know, they've got things they need to deal with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nate, dog, what do you think about Therapy Bro? Summer, I'm all for it.

[Joe]

Is that probably why you work on this show? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guys, go get the help and care you need. Whether it's from a therapist, a medical professional, an electrician. Go learn the skills you need to learn. The rest of the world is counting on you. We love you.

[Joe]

Bye.