My Sister Married a Man in Prison for Murder

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show Episode: My Sister Married a Man in Prison for Murder
Release Date: April 2, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network

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Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, host Dr. John Deloney addresses a complex and sensitive situation brought forth by a caller named Gail. The episode delves deep into family dynamics, mental health, and the challenges of confronting loved ones when difficult truths emerge.

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Caller Story: Gail's Dilemma

At the heart of this episode is Gail's distressing revelation about her sister's recent marriage to a man serving a life sentence for first-degree murder. Gail shares that her sister met and married this man while he was incarcerated, keeping the entire relationship a secret until she recently informed Gail by sending a picture of her wedding band.

Key Points from Gail's Story:

• Secrecy and Surprise: Gail was shocked to learn about her sister's marriage, especially since her sister hadn't disclosed her partner's criminal background initially.

  Gail (00:05): "My sister recently met and married a man serving a life sentence for first degree murder. She kept their entire relationship a secret until she just texted me a picture of her wedding band and told me that she got married."

• Criminal Background: The man was convicted of first-degree murder after two trials, the first resulting in a guilty verdict that was dismissed, leading to a plea deal in the second trial. Despite the severity of his crimes, Gail's sister believes he is innocent and wrongfully convicted.

  Gail (03:16): "He was sentenced to life in prison for first degree murder, which he confessed to during the second trial... He claims he's innocent, and my sister believes him."

• Impact on Family: Gail is particularly concerned about the implications for her own family, especially their three young children who adore their aunt. She fears that if her sister's husband is eventually released, it could jeopardize the safety and well-being of her children.

  Gail (05:07): "If he gets out of prison and they are living their life together, I feel like we're gonna have to have a conversation to say, like, we don't want him in our lives or around the children, at least."

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Expert Analysis: Dr. John Deloney's Insights

Dr. Deloney approaches Gail's situation by identifying underlying issues beyond the surface-level concern of marrying a convicted murderer. He emphasizes the importance of understanding family dynamics, setting boundaries, and preparing for difficult conversations.

Key Insights from Dr. Deloney:

1. Underlying Issues: Dr. Deloney suggests that the core problem isn't just the sister's marriage but also the habitual behavior and decision-making patterns that Gail's sister exhibits.

   Dr. John Deloney (00:20): "I don't think that's the actual issue. Can I tell you what I think the actual issue is?"

2. Confrontation Strategy: He advises Gail to have a clear goal for her confrontation with her sister. Without a defined objective, the conversation may lead to further disconnection.

   Dr. John Deloney (10:18): "At some point, you're gonna have to sit down and have the hard conversation, and it's going to be best... You need to spend some time actually deciding what is the goal of this confrontation."

3. Protecting the Children: Dr. Deloney underscores the necessity of prioritizing the safety and mental well-being of Gail's children. He acknowledges the emotional turmoil of distancing from a loved one but emphasizes the importance of setting firm boundaries.

   Dr. John Deloney (12:27): "She just hasn't made the best judgment calls, you know?"

4. Emotional Honesty: He points out that Gail's sister may struggle with direct and honest interactions, often deflecting blame instead of addressing the issues at hand.

   Dr. John Deloney (08:32): "She does not handle direct, honest interactions very well, does she?"

5. Consequences of Inaction: Dr. Deloney warns that avoiding the conversation could lead to greater complications in the future, especially if her sister's husband is released on parole.

   Dr. John Deloney (13:38): "She's gonna learn more about her than just like, you know, the fun side."

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Key Insights and Conclusions

• Setting Boundaries: It's crucial for Gail to establish clear boundaries to protect her family, even if it means distancing herself from her sister temporarily or permanently.

• Effective Communication: Approaching the confrontation with a specific goal can prevent the conversation from devolving into unproductive conflict. Gail should articulate her concerns clearly and focus on the well-being of her children.

• Emotional Support: Dr. Deloney highlights the importance of Gail seeking support, whether through therapy or counseling, to navigate the emotional complexities of this situation.

• Long-Term Implications: Addressing the issue now can prevent future turmoil, especially concerning the children's perception of safety and trust within the family.

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Notable Quotes

• Dr. John Deloney on Setting Goals:

  "You have to have a goal for the conversation. And if your goal is, I need to say all the things I need to say, you're going to leave in completely disconnected." (10:41)

• Dr. John Deloney on Protecting Children:

  "Your children are absorbing what marriage is. This is what people look like, what love looks like." (51:25)

• Gail on Her Fear:

  "I have been just avoiding having a difficult conversation, so I always just come up with excuses like that." (07:42)

• Dr. John Deloney on Emotional Boundaries:

  "It's easy to defend herself by just calling you the bad guy. So I don't blame her for that. I get it, I understand it. It's hard." (09:23)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show offers a profound exploration of the tangled webs that can form within families when unexpected and challenging circumstances arise. Dr. Deloney provides compassionate yet candid advice, empowering listeners like Gail to take the necessary steps to safeguard their families while navigating the emotional complexities of confronting loved ones.

Listeners grappling with similar issues will find valuable insights and strategies to approach their own difficult conversations, emphasizing the importance of boundaries, clear communication, and prioritizing the well-being of their loved ones.

Transcript

[Gail]

My sister recently met and married a man serving a life sentence for first degree murder. She kept their entire relationship a secret until she just texted me a picture of her wedding band and told me that she got married.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't think that's the actual issue.

[Gail]

I hope not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I tell you what I think the actual issue is? And you can tell me if I'm wrong. Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is Jon Dr. John Deloney Show. So grateful you've joined us. The greatest relationships and mental and emotional health show ever. That's not true by a long shot. But if you just keep saying it, I'm telling you, if you just keep saying it, it. Evidently, it all just becomes true. It doesn't even have to be true anymore. So glad that you were with us. For more than two decades, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move or help them figure out what's the next right move. And if that sounds like something you want to be a part of, you want to sit down with me and we can figure out what's the next thing, next thing to do in your world, give me a buzz 1-844-693-3291 or go to john deloney.com. ask a s k. I see all in the booth laughing at me. Am I doing something? What do I do wrong? No, you're good. You're good. What's what I do?

[Gail]

Your shirt just has an image on it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's boobs. Your. Your shirt has boobs. No, it's Milo. It's his eyes. Looks like I have low bosoms. Well, y'all are making me self conscious now. I love this band. I love the Descendants. They're the best. Now, I'm gonna be all weirded out for the rest. Thanks, guys. I've got four nipples today on this show. All right, let's go out to Morgantown, West Virginia, and talk to Gail. Hey, Gail. What's up?

[Gail]

Hi, Dr. John. So, what's going on? I have a confrontation, I guess you would call it, that I need to have with my sister.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gail]

And I don't know how to go about this conversation, just in general. I just don't do well with confrontations.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent. All right, bring it on. What's the confrontation?

[Gail]

So, okay, I wrote this out. I'll read this to you just a little bit. My sister recently met and married a man serving a life sentence for first degree murder. She met him while he was incarcerated.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where is it? Like, is that like a special swipe right account? How do you. How do you do that?

[Jill]

No, she had.

[Gail]

He's like locally incarcerated from a. From our area. And I guess they just knew somebody mutually and her friend set her up with him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's. That is a ride or die friend right there.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Really?

[Gail]

I know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They're married.

[Gail]

They are married. Now that she kept their entire relationship a secret until she just texted me a picture of her wedding band and told me that she got married. And she hadn't even mentioned at first that he was in prison. So just the fact that she got married and I didn't even know that she was in a relationship was shocking. And then she told me that he also was in prison. And it's just snowballed for there because there are a lot of other. Just terrible details.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm gonna have a job forever. Because people keep making choices like this. Good gosh.

[Gail]

So he was sentenced to life in prison for first degree murder, which he confessed to during the second trial. The first time the jury found him guilty. That was dismissed. And then the second time, instead of going to trial again, he chose to confess and take a plea deal. And this is also the second time he has served a sentence prison. And his first sentence was for attempted first degree murder. And of course, you know, he says that he's innocent. My sister believes that twice. Twice, almost back to back. He was. Has been wrongfully convicted. And she.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All new wives believe.

[Gail]

I know, I know. And she just cannot be persuaded otherwise. And so anyway, he's up for parole.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Soon, and there's no chance.

[Gail]

That's what I thought, too. He's adamant that she thinks that. That he has a chance.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Then, Gail, hold on, hold on, hold on. Has she ever been right?

[Gail]

Very true. She.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She's never been right since you've known her. She hasn't been right. Right about anything.

[Gail]

Yeah, that's part of the problem. Honestly, if he's in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If he's doing a life sentence for murder one on the back end of another sentence for attempted murder one, he's not going to get paroled unless he's in California.

[Gail]

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my thoughts, too. And of course, she's adamant that she says, you know, well, his lawyer has new information. Or he sure does, which is what I tell her. I said, I'm sure he's telling you that, but I just don't think that that's true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I've seen Matlock enough to know that. Probably not. Probably not. All right, so let's pretend Though he gets out on parole, right?

[Gail]

Yes, exactly. So that's the conversation. I guess right now it's easy to just kind of pretend like it's not happening.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, no. Your sister's pretending you can live in real world.

[Gail]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But at least for us, the main issue is, you know, my husband and I, we have three really young children. They're. And they all love my sister so much, and they. We see her a lot and we talk to her a lot. They have no idea, of course, any of this is going on. But if she. If he gets out of prison and they are living their life together, I feel like I'm gonna. We're gonna have to have a conversation to say, like, we don't want him in our lives or around the children, at least. At the very least.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why? Because of a little murder? Geez. Yeah.

[Gail]

Really?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. I actually. I don't think that's the actual issue.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I tell you what I think the actual issue is, and you can tell me if I'm wrong?

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think the actual issue is they don't know her. They love the whirling dervish that is their aunt that sweeps into their life and buys them a bunch of cool stuff and acts all bananas, and they think it's hilarious and fun. And then you and husband have to keep the rules. And then she wisps away. And the. The excitement for a kid, would you say five, four, and three or something like that?

[Gail]

They're like five, three, and seven months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good God. Your house, by the way, it was crazy. So, yeah, you have like a live. Like multiple live chainsaws going in your living room right at any given moment. So they love the. And then it's like a roller coaster. It's fun.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can't live there. I think the bigger issue here is very soon they'll begin to know her.

[Gail]

Yes, exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're gonna totally agree, you're gonna have this. To have this confrontation. The guy's not getting out of jail. He's just not. But you're gonna have to have this conversation when it turns into, hey, I want the kids to come stay with me for a month, or, why don't you all go out of town and I'll come stay with them? And you're like, yeah, no, I think that's the confrontation that's coming.

[Gail]

That's true. That's very true. And my husband kind of thinks more that way too, because it's like, if she's making these type of judgment calls in this area of her life. What other type of judgment calls? We already kind of. We've never let the kids stay alone with her just before this has happened. She just hasn't made the best judgment calls, you know?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Gail]

So, yeah, that actually does come up a lot where she even, like on Valentine's Day, she said, why don't you guys go out and I'll watch the kids? And I was like, we're just going to take the kids with us.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We want tonight to be extra hot. So we're taking. Taking all three of them. Yes.

[Gail]

Because I just.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Gail]

I have been just avoiding having a difficult conversation, so I always just come up with excuses like that, like, we're just going to take the kids with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Us, you know, and so can I say this? My guess is, and this is the compassionate side of me, your sister's had a rough go of it, hasn't she?

[Gail]

She has, yeah. We had a rough childhood. And then she has had a rough. She was. Became a mom. She was a teen mom. And she's always been a single mom. And, you know, she's had. Yeah. Her struggles, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She's had her struggles. I can guarantee you she can feel it a mile away when someone's not being honest with her.

[Gail]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And my. Also my guest. Tell me if I'm wrong, I could be way out to lunch here. She does not handle direct, honest interactions very well, does she?

[Gail]

Yeah. No, she doesn't, because she thinks that specifically, we. We are Christians and my sister is not. And she specifically says that I'm judgmental and I think I'm holier than thou. And it just always. Anytime I say anything to question her decisions, which, you know, she makes a lot of. She has previously made a lot of bad decisions. It just turned into a fight about that, you know?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yelling at somebody and calling them judgmental when a. They're putting up a boundary or they're calling out unsafe actions. Right. When somebody says so, forget the right or wrong. Right. Forget that.

[Gail]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She probably makes choices, I'm just gonna guess, like, go out on a limb here. Like. Like marrying a murderer. She makes choices that are inherently unsafe. Right.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And when you say something, um, it's easy to defend herself by just calling you the bad guy.

[Gail]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I don't blame her for that. I get it. I understand it. It's hard.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's hard to hear someone who loves you saying, hey, if you drink like that or you snort that or you sleep with that, like you're gonna have problems Right. It's easy just to throw grenades. So I think for you, the hard part is I love my sister and I have a duty to my kids.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love my sister and I have a responsibility towards my marriage.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And those may not intermingle much.

[Gail]

Yes, Yes, I know.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Gail]

That's very much true. And I don't know if it. Maybe it just feels like it's coming to a head because this situation is just very, like, acute, I guess, but it's kind of just in. Just an overall problem, you know?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Gail]

With our relationship with her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

At some point, you're gonna have to sit down and have the hard conversation, and it's going to be best. I like the way my friend Jefferson Fisher frames it. Like, you have to have a goal for the conversation. And if your goal is, I need to say all the things I need to say, you're going to leave in completely disconnected.

[Gail]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you. So I want you to spend some time actually deciding what is the goal of this confrontation I need to have if it is to say, I'm never going to leave my kids with you. I just struggle to trust you. You just married a murderer.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like, I struggle to trust you, and I struggle to trust you with the safety of our kids. I do love you around them. But we're going to be there, right? Right, Dude. The whirling dervish of middle fingers. And, like, the way she'll talk about you and how dare you and who do you think you are? I mean, you can stand in the middle of that storm because you're anchored into the end, dude, Reality.

[Gail]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you gotta ask yourself, what's the point of the conversation? Is it to give her a lifeline? Like, hey, when this thing burns to the ground, we'll still be here. I mean, I. You gotta ask yourself what that goal is. If you go into the confrontation without a goal. It's gonna. It's gonna. No one's gonna be happy because you're gonna start searching for a feeling.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you'll never get that. You'll never get that feeling.

[Gail]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just. I think right now, where her feelings are so strong about the situation with, you know, her husband, I feel like everything always circles back to that. And so I would think, like, if I had a conversation, try and try to keep it broad in general, that it would circle back to that. And then I feel like it would almost be like she would give me an ultimatum. Like, you know, she gets.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She gets to do that. She gets to do that.

[Gail]

Yeah. I'M just afraid that she will just be like, I don't know, no contact. Like she will just say, well, if you don't want him, then you don't get me. Or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what's your alternative? To put your kids in an unsafe situation?

[Gail]

That's true. There's no solution.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, I mean, there is a solution, but you want to have it all and you can't.

[Gail]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You want to have a sister who's clearly been struggling for a long time, who just made a wild life decision, not hate you or not cut you off, because you probably feel like you're the only light in her life and your kids are the only light in. In their life. And you see your kids dying laughing when she's around because she's probably pretty remarkable with your kids.

[Gail]

Yeah, yeah. She really. They really love her so much. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She's chaos and fun and she's exactly what an aunt should be. Right?

[Gail]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

My sister goes by the name Tia Loca. Might I. I think my. I don't even know if my kids know. They do know her name, but they've never called her that. Yeah, but she also is, like super responsible and she's a funny, hilarious, like, everything's on fire when she comes in the house, which is exactly what you want with an aunt. Right? That's what you want.

[Gail]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And also, she's not married to a murderer.

[Gail]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's very true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know what I mean? So.

[Gail]

And like you said, right now they just see her as the fun aunt. But especially my 5 year old in a couple of years, I mean, she's gon. Yeah. Really just. I don't know. She's gonna learn more about her than just like, you know, the fun side.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, she'll learn, like, when I'm gonna come. I'm coming for your birthday. I'm coming for your birthday. And she doesn't show up or I'm gonna be there. I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna be there and she doesn't show up. That's when they'll begin to learn.

[Gail]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you're gonna have to sit in the heartbreak that all parents have to sit in with their kids when they learn that not everybody tells the truth. Not everybody has. Has. Some people have struggles and it's heartbreaking.

[Gail]

Right, Right. I don't. My sister, she has always shown up. I think it's a matter of like, if we, like, would allow her to show up, depending on what state she's in. So I think that it's going to come back, but like, the kids are going to maybe be resentful of us if we, if, if it becomes a no contact situation, even though it wasn't like we made it that way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. I would just tell you. Who cares?

[Gail]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

My kids get resentful, especially my younger one, when I turn the TV off.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

My younger one gets resentful when I don't let them eat ice cream for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like that's just kind of what they do because they're kids. They don't get a vote.

[Gail]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then when they get older, they're going to be really grateful that mom and dad stood in the gap when they were children and kept them safe to the best of their abilities. And I mean, just imagine the alternative. The other conversation. Hey, mom, why did you keep letting aunt so and so come over when you knew she was gonna sneak alcohol in here and she was gonna leave us with murder boyfriend or murder husband? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think, I think you've got to let go. And it's going to be hard let go your responsibility for keeping your sister in check or in line. And you're gonna have to recognize I can't keep her in check and in line. No matter how much I love her, how much I try to coach her, no matter how much I try to quote, unquote, model the right, like a peaceful way of doing life. She's gonna go marry a murderer. She's gonna go do her thing and let's say the 0.0001 chance this guy gets out on parole. Good, great. Grand. He's not coming around my kids. And by the way, I've met people who got out on parole. They're almost always super clear eyed, like, yeah, of course I understand that you want some space between me and your kids. That's not a problem. I'm not going to come over for Thanksgiving. I get it. I totally get it. Totally get it. And I want to honor the. The temperature of your household. I'm not going to show up there. So, yeah, I, I would love her the best I can. And when you think confrontation is coming, then be super clear and have a goal for the meeting. But I think before any of that goes on, you need to exhale and just be sad for a little bit because I wish everyone could have an aunt like my sister. Everyone. I wish. And you don't have that. I'm sorry, that breaks my heart for you. Thanks for the call, my friend. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Cozy Earth in my house. I would prefer to go to sleep somewhere just south of the Arctic Circle. I like it cold. 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And remember, Cozy Earth spring into comfort sales happening right now with exclusive savings. For you watching or listening to the show 40 off everything that's 40 off. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 40 off. That's C O Z Y cozyearth.com DeLONEY let's talk about Delete me. My go to provider for online safety, security and peace of mind. Don't skip past this. Listen, we all know that we live on the Internet these days. Our whole lives are on the Internet. And I wish this was not the case. But it doesn't matter if I wish it wasn't the case. It just is. Everything we do takes place on the Internet. Our work, our personal messages and communications. Because so much of our life exists on the Internet now, we it should become normal to give away our email addresses to random companies, to give our phone numbers away to random companies. And those companies turn around and sell our information to other companies. This is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete me. I looked at my reports from my friends at Deleteme. Listen. They reviewed over 35,000 different data brokers. 35,000 data brokers that had my personal information. And they've removed my personal information from hundreds of scammy data broker sites. Deleteme has saved me countless hours, days even. And they've sent me detailed reports throughout the year showing me exactly what they've removed when they remove them, and from who. I want you to have this kind of piece, too. Listen, we can't avoid our lives being on the Internet, but we can make our personal data personal again with Delete Me. Get protected with Delete Me today and get 20% off all of the delete Me plans that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney that's join j o I n deleteme.com DeLoney all right, we are back. Hey, take one second for me, please, and subscribe to the show. If you're watching this on YouTube or go to the podcast and like it, or download it or do the. The reviews with all the stars. All the stars makes such a huge difference for us. Thank you so much. Let's go out to Mitch in Chicago. What's up? What's up, Mitch?

[Mitch]

Yeah, I called in. I've been having a little bit of trouble with my. With my wife, and I was looking to try and get a little bit of advice.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, man, what's going on?

[Mitch]

So my wife works as a nurse at a large hospital, and I work from home in a tech company. And some of her interests have kind of changed. She came home and kind of let me know that she had interest towards a co worker and kind of caused a little bit of a tough between us. And then I found out she was hanging out with some of her male doctors at their house, and she said that she was actually hanging out with some of her other co workers who were different in a more social scene. So just been trying to kind of work through that and get on the same page and see what's going on. I was kind of wondering what your thoughts and opinions were.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, I guess my first thing is, like, my first gut reaction. And again, this one's a little more challenging because you're not sitting in front of me. I can't see you. But it feels like one of two things. One, you don't fully want to metabolize the seriousness of this, or you've just come up with some. Some safer, more generic, unflavored oatmeal language to describe the fact that your wife is having an affair. She's cheating on you.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Which one of those is true? Is one of just nervous you're on the show and you don't want to, like, fully dive in, or is it just. Is it hit differently when you're like, no, my wife's having an affair, she's cheating on me. And I think my life as I knew it is now over and different now.

[Mitch]

I think I'm just trying to come to the sense of reality of it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There you go.

[Mitch]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, totally. I mean, your whole world got blown up. How long have you been married?

[Mitch]

We've been together for 12 years now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Mitch]

And we got married a little bit before COVID Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So just. Y'all been married for five years?

[Mitch]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ish. Okay. My gut tells me this didn't just start. How long has she had one foot out of the boat of this marriage?

[Mitch]

I kind of just started to find out about this towards the middle of end of last year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Was it a shock to you or did you go. I knew it.

[Mitch]

I was a little frustrated, to say the least.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. But that's not, that's not what I asked. Were you stunned by this? Did it catch you completely off guard or did it, it confirmed some fears you've had for a while?

[Mitch]

Yeah, definitely. I didn't know where this came from.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Did she ever cheat on you and you were dating, you'll date it for seven years, huh?

[Mitch]

Yes and no, she did not cheat on me during that time. That I know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Yeah, I guess, I mean, I guess the, the bigger questions are what do you, what are you going to do now? What do you want?

[Mitch]

It's a good question. We're trying to go to therapy at the moment to try and get an understanding. She indicated that she didn't cheat on me. She needed a father figure or another person who's more of a superiority individual to like talk about stuff with because what she does as a nurse is very traumatic. She works in an OR room than they do a lot of, you know, they are saving life and death, I guess. And I don't know, she just kind of indicated that she never really cheated on me. She went to somebody else. It was more like an emotional type thing. I don't know if that helped to provide any context, but I don't buy it. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

At all. You, you go to lunch with an emotional affair, you send inappropriate texts with an emotional affair, you over disclose. That person becomes your safe place and you begin dreaming about life with them as opposed to the person you're with. You don't go to their house over and over and over again.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dude, I, I've been in those rooms and I, I, I, I'm not in those room. I've never been in those rooms. Day in and day out, minute after minute, hour after hour. She's exactly right. It's a traumatic job. It's hard. And you go talk to, with those, about those challenges with a counselor. You go talk about those challenges with a group. You tell you, your, her husband, hey, I, I, I'm struggling, carrying the weight of this thing. I need to go talk to somebody. You don't sneak around for a year going over to, you know what I mean? And that, like, forget going over to doctor and surgeons houses. She told you she's got feelings for somebody else. It, I mean, am I wrong?

[Mitch]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so what are y'all going to therapy for? Because, because you can go with two different, with two different mindsets here. If you're going to understand what happened, if you're going to just poke around in the drawers, this will happen again. This will happen again. This will happen again. If you're going to save your marriage, then you'll have a different track to take. Do you get what I'm saying? Okay, because she's still going to work in the same place with these same people. Right?

[Mitch]

The individual no longer works there is what she told me after some time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but I don't, I don't trust her as far as I can see her. Does she show you her text every day and have her location turned on?

[Mitch]

She actually turned her location off and said it was overarching and overpowering.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yet she wants a, a father figure.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm sorry, man.

[Mitch]

Yeah. Sucks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. You love this woman, huh?

[Mitch]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You all have kids?

[Mitch]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. My associate producer of the show let me know that she never even changed her name on her driver's license. Is that right?

[Mitch]

Eventually she did after some time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long?

[Mitch]

But it took a while.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How many years?

[Mitch]

Three.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so just from the outside looking in, man, it sounds like somebody who, for whatever reason, it took y'all the better part of a decade to, to even get married. And even after that, she didn't want to give up her independence or her way of navigating the world. And maybe she didn't mind writing co pilot or her driving and you writing co pilot, but she wasn't going to become one with the person she married. And let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Let's say she's exactly right. She never slept with anybody. High five. But she doesn't trust you enough to say, I'm struggling. She doesn't honor you enough when you say, when she says, hey, I've got feeling for somebody else. And you say, okay, let's rebuild Trust. And she's like, no, no, no, I can't rebuild trust like that. Like, you need it. Like, let me see your text and let me know where you are because you're telling me you're going over these guys houses late at night. And she says, whoa, whoa, slow down, that's too much. I mean, if behavior is a language, she's telling you like, I want you there, I want you at home working the IT job so I can know that direct deposit is going to keep happening. But I want to go live my life. I want to deal with my stuff the way I want to deal with it. I want to involve other men in our. In our circle of emotional and physical trust. And you just have a grown up decision to make, my brother. Yeah, And I hate that. I know. I hate that for you.

[Mitch]

We do split everything, which is, you know, nice, and have separate bank accounts and things.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, that's terrible. That's terrible. That means y'all are roommates, dude. And I say terrible, like, not as a judgment call, but as like, you can't make your marriage work that way. I mean, you have split emotions, you have split physical lives, you have split financial lives. It sounds like the only thing that's different is y'all went and got a government stamp on. On a piece of paper, but your lives are still as though you're dating.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Does that make sense? Yeah, I guess. The. The only. The. The path you got moving forward, brother, is to truly, honestly, and as painfully as this would be, write down the questions you actually have. Not the him haw, not the, like, put your head down. And she just kind of tells these tales about, I'm struggling and then this. And then I had to go over their house over and over and over again. And you say, will you go over there anymore? Like, how dare you ask that? It's too much. It's just too overbearing. You need to write down the questions you actually want to know the answers to. And then you're going to have to ask yourself, a, do I trust this person? B, do I want to stay married to this person and see what must be true for me to remain married? And no one can really make that decision for you, Right? I can just tell you, if I was to switch places with you, I would it be real, real, real thin ice.

[Mitch]

Yeah, I understand that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you feel like you got the full story?

[Mitch]

I feel like there might be a few areas of the painting that still needs to be drawn out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

But it's mostly There.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, well, I can't make. I can't. I mean, I can't tell you what to do next, brother. All I can do is just say from the outside looking in, you're right to feel completely bewildered, because the actions of both of you aren't the actions of a married couple. It's going to be ride or die till. Till the wheels fall off. It's going to be standing there at the castle gates, like, just saying, bring it on, world. It's. It's. It's us two versus y'all. Your marriage is. Is built on. We have two different lives that we just happen to share. A house and a marriage certificate. That's the way I run it, dude. You can run it that way. The data tells me it's not. It's not going to work. And I think a lot of people race off to marriage counseling after there's some sort of infidelity, and they just want to talk about it and talk about it and talk about it. And maybe you don't even know if you want to save this marriage. You want to find out some more information. You want to get to the bottom of some stuff. But it's gonna always land on what to feel like I can reestablish and she can re. Earn my trust. And what things are we going to do differently so that we create a life where one plus one equals one? And that's the choice you're gonna have to make, man. And again, if it's me, all the notifications are turned on. Probably she's getting another job. She's working at a different hospital. She's committing to letting you know I'm struggling in these areas. And so I'm gonna go talk to this professional, this person. And I'm not going other. Over to other rockstar surgeons and doctors, houses late at night and lying to you about it. I'm not going to continue working with people that I've got that I want to have, you know, relationship with, an intimate or romantic relationship with that I have feelings for, if you will. We're going to share finances, all those things. Like, man, you're going to have to do a bunch of different stuff that y'all haven't done in, what, 10, 12 years of being together. And you don't have to build a completely new marriage. And you just. It's going to start with you asking yourself, do I still want to do that? And then asking her, do you want in on that? And that's two big question marks in my mind. And then from there, man. I believe y'all can build whatever you want to build. I just have a belief in people and redemption. I have a belief in people. They can, they, they've chosen a miserable life. They could choose an amazing. But it all comes down to that choice. And both of you have to have both feet in the boat. Both of you have to be all the way in. Thanks for the call, my brother. Call anytime. And I'd love for her to, to reach out too, man. I'd love to hear her side of the story, but you have some hard questions to ask moving forward. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas and I love, love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. He's got a mustache and he solves all his problems by himself. It's a great fun story and it's a lie. In a society that's obsessed with your diet, your workout routine and your job and your everything else, it's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care whether you're introverted or extroverted or whatever Internet based relationship style you want to give yourself. I don't care about any of that. We all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. Listen, it's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourself to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of support or help for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's a BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney all right, we are back. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button. I just got to Indianapolis, Indiana and talk to J I L L what's up? Jill?

[Jill]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's going on in your world?

[Jill]

Well, I, I think I know the answer to this but question that I have is how can I get my husband to Prioritize his mental health. When I'm at my breaking point.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm sorry, how long have you been this close to the edge?

[Jill]

I think that I have been at my breaking point for like five years. And I feel like recently I broke.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What broke it?

[Jill]

Well, I think what really did it was my husband. And I have. He's kind of always been in this, like, low grade depression for a really long time, and it caused a lot of damage to, or a lot of hardship for our marriage. So we went to a, like a marriage retreat thing and it went really, really well. And he was great for about six weeks and then. Then it just went back to how it was. And I think that is really what broke me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Finally you believed one more time, huh?

[Jill]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have little ones?

[Jill]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old?

[Jill]

Eleven, nine and six.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, man.

[Jill]

So they're not little, little, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But they're in prime absorption. Like they're able to. Yeah, absorb and, and see, Right?

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I guess my question for you is, what do you want to be different?

[Jill]

I want him to be happy. Like, I. He's not my first love, but he was my best friend and I miss my friend a lot. And I've tried, like, I've had other friends and they're not him. Like, he's the one that I want and he's. He's not there. I married him because I knew that he would never, ever leave me. And it never really occurred to me that he would leave mentally and stay here physically, which might actually be worse.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Did it ever occur to you that he could feel the fact that you never fully loved him?

[Jill]

I fully loved him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. But you married him out of loyalty, not out of I want to build a life with you.

[Jill]

No, I definitely wanted to build a life with him. He was a person who I knew that I could build a life with. Definitely that, like, he was not the first love. The first love was a teenage thing. It was definitely very.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Teenagey.

[Jill]

It has had. It has had a lot of impact on our relationship in large part specifically because when we were a couple years into our marriage, this first guy who basically ghosted me called me out of the blue and I was like, what? And so I talked to him and it caused huge upset in our relationship. I was 21, I think, when this happened. I got married very young.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When you say you talk to him, I've learned that that means different things to different generations of people.

[Jill]

I. I talked to him on the phone that night for a couple hours and just was like, what happened?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, so you didn't, like, talk to him, like, go hook back up with him?

[Jill]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And why did this phone call disrupt your husband's equilibrium so bad?

[Jill]

So. So it wasn't the phone call itself. It was me. It was. We were not doing great in our marriage already at the time. We've always kind of struggled in large part, I think, because my husband hasn't ever actually fully trusted me. But I didn't know that until after we got married. But so basically I. All of those, like, what happened with this. This first boyfriend, we'll call him.

[Gail]

He.

[Jill]

He kind of just disappeared out of my life, like, in the middle of the, like, infatuation in love period of the relationship.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you were 18. 18, though, right?

[Jill]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. How old are you now?

[Jill]

34.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, let's stop talking about high school boyfriend. Like, both. Both, Both him.

[Jill]

I would love to him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And. Yeah. And husband. Like, if your husband's still bringing this up, then, yeah, he's got some. Some significant. What is.

[Jill]

What is significant is that I was trying to talk to my husband about, like, basically I was confused. Like, this is bringing up a lot of old feelings. We're not in a good place. And I was trying to talk to him, and I think what I was trying to do really was communicate. Like, I'm confused. I'm kind of scared. Like, I don't. I don't know what's going on. But what I said to him and what he heard was he said, are you in love with him still? And I said, yes. And he said, do you love me? And he said, are you in love with me? And I said, I don't know. And that is the thing that was so extremely damaging. It's not about the boyfriend.

[Gail]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. But that was when you were 21 years old, 15 years ago.

[Jill]

Yep. Yep, that's true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The things I said 15 years ago. The things I said seven years ago, God help me. You know what I mean?

[Jill]

Like, Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The thing is, is y'all chose to stay together. You chose to work on it. You chose to make humans. Y'all have made three humans, right?

[Jill]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I. I guess at the end of the day, if that's still a thing floating around, that when you were 21, you admitted to your brand new husband that you still had feelings for a high school boyfriend, and you were confused because a lot of people get married and they think it's supposed to, like, magically make all old flames go away. It doesn't. Right. And they think, I'm gonna get married and it's gonna magically be magic, and it's just super not right. Like, so all that to say is, I don't know anybody who gets married at 21 that doesn't say dumb stuff. I don't know anyone who gets married at 31 who doesn't say things that 10 years later, they're like, I wish I could have that one. Yeah.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so here's the deal. We're here right now. Let me ask you. What do you want for you? When I asked you that question, the first thing you said is, I want my husband to be happy. What do you want?

[Jill]

I want to be happy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, there you go. What does that mean? Paint me a picture of that.

[Jill]

I want to know that I am valued in my home and in my life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you don't value Jill. You're still heartbroken about a dumb thing you said when you were 21 years old.

[Jill]

It's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, you think that the reason he doesn't talk to you is something is wrong with you.

[Jill]

That's the thing that I'm told.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. But you believe it.

[Jill]

I don't. I. I know that his stuff is not my fault.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jill]

He has reacted to a lot of things, and I feel like, in an effort to be fair to him, it is important for me to be transparent with what I actually did do to cause him damage. But I did not cause his stuff. His dad left him when he was 6, and I think that all of his stuff stems from that. But he doesn't really acknowledge that that's still a problem that he's never worked through.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm gonna go one step further. Yes, that happened. Yes, you broke his heart when you said you still had feelings for another guy 15 years ago. He continues to struggle because he hasn't chosen to change his life.

[Jill]

Mm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And now y'all have gotten in that weird figure 8 infinity loop dance. That is. You show up feeling less than in your own house, and you tiptoe around your own house, and you tiptoe around your own kids, and then he knows people are tiptoeing around him, and then he chooses to not do anything to bridge that gap, or his body shuts him down, whatever. And it just gets in this. And then you are reaching for ghosts. And this guy that was never going to leave you, but he's left you. Like you said perfectly. He left you, but he never left. And somebody has to stop that dance. And sometimes it is. Here is the deal. Here's the life I am looking for. You have left Me in our own home. Or a better way to say that, a more connecting way to say that is I feel like you have left this marriage. You just haven't left our home. You haven't left our bed. Do you want to stay married to me? Because if you want to stay married to me, here's what must be true. And I would like to be married to you. What must be true for you to want to stay married to me. Y'all got to put that. That on the table.

[Jill]

I think right now my hang up is that we're about to our 15th anniversary. And for 14 years, I have always been the one bringing up the things that need to be talked about and pushing for the connection and pushing to resolve things.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so, Jill, what's your. What's your alternative? Because now you're keeping score. Keep. When you start score keeping, that is. That's somebody hovering over the ash of resentment. That's contempt. That's one of the Gottman's four horsemen of the end of a marriage. I've been doing so much. You've been doing nothing but being a net drain on this relationship. And suddenly you find yourself going up a ladder and you're looking down upon him. I've been doing this. I've been doing this 15 years. I'm out.

[Jill]

I mean, that is essentially where I am. I'm not. I'm just. I'm trying to be peaceful. Like that's basically what I'm trying to do now. But I'm not bringing up the things that need to be talked about because I'm exhausted.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I get that. So are you going to leave?

[Jill]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so you're going to stay?

[Jill]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're never gonna leave?

[Jill]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. If you're gonna make that choice that I'm gonna stay, then that frames what your next move is. If there is a or else line you're drawing, this has to change or else I'm going to go live my life. Because this isn't a marriage of fidelity. He's. He's choosing to opt out of the marriage. And maybe he didn't sleep with somebody, or he's not opting out with work, but he's opting out by choosing to not engage. If there's not an or else line you're going to draw, then you have to do one of two things. Make peace with the way it is and begin to live your life. If you don't want to go dancing with me, fine. I'm going to go take dance lessons because I want to dance.

[Jill]

I have done a lot of that. It's just lonely.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's so lonely. But I guess what I'm trying to get you to see is the prison you're in is locked on the inside. And there's not a move you make without consequence. If you bring it up yet again, you're going to be mad at yourself because you swore yourself last time. I'm not bringing this up anymore. I'm gonna. He has to start doing it. And like the old Dr. Phil line, like, do you want to. You want to be right or you want to be married? I'm going to bring it up one last time. Or letting him know I'm not bringing this up anymore. Tired of being lonely. And so I'm going to go find some friends and we're going to go do life. I'd love for you to join me. My bigger concern right now is your three kids are absorbing. This is what marriage is.

[Jill]

This is what marriage is.

[Gail]

This is what people look like, what love looks like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is what husbands who go to in ends of the earth for their wives look like. This is what. And instead they're getting like. This is what it feels like when mom gives up.

[Gail]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is what it feels like when dad quits. And peace. Keeping the peace in a household feels like electricity for a child. They feel it. And I hope you hear me not dumping all of this back on you. I just want you to hold. You're the only one. Your husband clearly doesn't want to make another move. He kind of likes the way his life is. He gets to do whatever he want, thinks how he wants. He doesn't have any responsibilities and the life just keeps going on. And also, I bet he's miserable in his own skin. Is that fair?

[Jill]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I mean, you said it when you called. You knew my answer. There's nothing you can do. You can't. There's not a thing you haven't said other than maybe I love you till the end of time and I'm never going to leave you. And the day you want to start having joy in your life, I'll be right here. But what I want you to do, if that's your decision, I want you to make peace with it. Because right now you're at war in your own body.

[Jill]

Yeah, I think. I think the biggest thing that is at war at the moment is this is the first year ever in my life when leaving came up as an actual thing that I wanted.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How'd it go?

[Jill]

It. What do you mean?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, when you Brought it up. Did you put on the table and tell him that you're considering leaving?

[Jill]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Can I tell you. He knows. He can feel it.

[Jill]

He. Okay, so the thing is, I wasn't considering leaving.

[Gail]

It's.

[Jill]

I want to. I do want to, but I won't. And if he doesn't know that about me after 17 years, I don't. I'm at, Like, I'm at the. I feel like I've fallen off the rope. I'm not even at the end of the rope anymore. I've fallen off the rope as to how to. How to get him to believe me that my loyalty has nothing to do with how I feel. And that's a comfort to me. That would be a comfort to me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but you're not just. You're not underwater in depression when your feelings weigh so heavy that they are immobilizing.

[Jill]

I. I guess maybe not as bad as him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you scared to hurt this guy?

[Jill]

I feel like the only reason why I'm not immobilized, why I can't, why I don't come home and be catatonic some days like he does, is I don't have the. I don't have that luxury.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. That's right. And I. I hear this from mothers all over the country when people are like, how'd you. How'd you do it? And you're like, I have to. Like, there's. There's no way to explain it. I've got three kids who have to eat. And to quote Henry Cloud, what you. What your husband needs is some problems. He needs to know his laundry is just not going to magically appear, that his kids don't just magically come home and have every one of their needs taken care of while he sits there and just veggies out. Maybe that your husband needs some problems that aren't just in his head, but that are in reality, so he'll stand up on his own two feet and begin to get his feet underneath him. It's a decade and a half. Something's got to change. And if nothing changes, nothing's going to change. But I can't stress this enough. You got to go find a therapist in your local area and sit down and talk to somebody, because I think your trend line is not great either. But the prison you're in is locked from the inside. And I want you to turn the key. And I know it's scary out there, but I want you to turn the key and take a step out. Confront that reality. Go get them. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Hallow, the number one prayer and meditation app in the world. It's officially lint, which are the 40 days leading up to Good Friday and Easter and Lent is when Christians all over the world commit to a season of fasting from all sorts of things, and they commit themselves to reconnection and remembering prayer and meditation. Right now, Hallow has a challenge going on called the Way. It's meant to reflect living the way of Jesus. And that means doing hard things that lead to peace, joy, and healing over time throughout the way, you'll get to hear some incredible stories from people like Jonathan Roumie of the Chosen, Chris Pratt and Mark Wahlberg. And you'll also be invited to participate in experiencing life Change yourself. Plus, you can check out Hallow's Lent challenge for kids. It's called the Little Way. It's a fun, meaningful adventure for the whole family as y'all will follow along with two kids learning to live out gratitude every day. And this is just a tiny bit of what Hallow offers. Hallow has an enormous catalog of music, guided prayers, meditations, and more. And when you sign [e-mail] Deloney, you'll get three months for free. That means you're covered through the entire Lent season and beyond. Go check out [e-mail] DeLoney that's Hallow. H a l l o w.com DeLoney for three months for free. All right, we're back. We got a money in marriage question. Let it rip.

[Gail]

Yeah. So this one is, how can I be more intentional about adding more fun and lightness into our marriage?

[Dr. John Deloney]

How, dude, Man, I love that question. One of the things that every marriage researcher talks about, Esther Perel, the Gutmans everybody talks about, is we have such a roi work centric world that we do every action we. We take has to have a benefit to it. We exercise so we can. We do this so we can. I. I even talk about it. Like, I work out now so that when I'm 90, I can roll around with my grandkids, right? Like, everything is. Is so ROI oriented. And, dude, we have sucked the joy out of being alive. Fun. Just fun. We've lost fun. So what are some ways to, like, in. In couples all over the country, they reach out, dude. They've recognized this. Our house functions so well. Our finances are getting back on track. We. We put sex on the calendar. We have it 2.1 times a week. We. All the things, dude, we don't have any fun in our house. We just don't have any fun. So the only word I can give you is practice. And I know it sounds dumb to practice fun, but you gotta practice fun. What does that mean? Sometimes let the kids stay up too late. Sometimes fill up a bucket of water balloons and just drill your kids when they get get off the bus. Just, just unload on them, you and your spouse. Sometimes the dinner's halfway being done and you're like, I don't want to eat this tonight. Just order pizza. Sometimes turn all the music up on Spotify as loud as it will go and just have a dance off. Sometimes play spin the bottle with your husband or wife. That might even be fun. Play Truth or Dare, the John Deloney erotic envelope system. Just come up with five things you want to try, five things they want to try. And then you just agree to pull one up. And you won't judge what's on that card. You're just going to be curious about it, even if you don't even understand the physics and geometry of whatever put on that. Like, I don't know how this is physically possible to try, but I'm. I want to hear about it. Like, choose curiosity, choose fun. And inject some things in there in my house. Here's some, some things we've done. My wife with her dream. Her dream is to be in bed by 9:00 every night. Like, just dream. And she hears the next morning when I'm talking about how hilarious a comedian was. So last year she put on the calendar. I'm gonna go to this many live comedy shows, John, you curate it for me. And she knows I, I know the kind of humor she likes and I especially know the kind of humor she doesn't like. So I curated them specifically. But when somebody was coming to town, I was like, you got to go to this one. And do. We laughed our heads off. I she put on the calendar. I will go to some concerts. That means I'm gonna be out till midnight or 1am and dude, we went and hung out with Ava brothers. We went and hung out with Frank Turner. We went hung out with some of our heroes and it was awesome. And on the other side, I committed. I'm gonna. On certain nights I'm gonna go to at 9:30, I'm just gonna go to bed early. And then lo and behold, I sleep all night. I wake up feeling like a million bucks. The mornings are full of laughter. Instead of me being all grumpy and mainlining coffee like it, it's just a. We have a wrestling mat in our living room so me and my daughter can just literally go Karate Kid 3 as often as we can. My son and I are always making jokes. Making jokes. So it's to. I'm going to release my grip a little bit on. Routine. Release my grip a little bit on. Everything's got to be tucked in. Release my grip on. My hair's got to be just perfect. And instead I'm going to focus on laughter, fun, play, joy, and whatever that means to your house, knock your lights out. It might even mean when your kids playing Minecraft, that you go in the other room and log in on a separate account and you just attack. Right. I don't know what that means in your house, but let it. Can you attack somebody on a Roblox? I don't even. I don't know. I'm not into things on. Yeah, the two nerds in the booth are like, absolutely. I don't know. I. That'd be funny if your dad suddenly had a secret Fortnite account and, like, attacked you. Oh, that be fantastic. Yeah. And then it's like, by the way, like, stop wearing my underwear. I don't know. Like, something you'd. Funny you'd say to your kid. I don't know. I guess if your kid's wearing your underwear, you got other issues. But, yeah, I. I don't know. It's. It literally is a mind shift. That, yes, routine is great and going to bed about the same time every night is good. And also good God, order pizza and stay up too late dancing. Here's one last thing I'll leave you with. Ask yourself, is this a funeral speech moment? And here's what I mean by that. I was in Walgreens a year or so ago. My wife started this tradition that on the last day of school, we hide and we attack the kids with water balloons. And it's become a funny thing. Like, one year, my son was on the roof of, like, our small. Like, it's become like World War iii. And it's super, super fun. And they get me sometimes. We've snuck up and got my wife. It's. It's. The whole thing's just chaos. I was in Walgreens and I was getting some medicine or something, and I saw a thing of, like, 100 water balloons. And I just grabbed it because I thought, that's going to be funny one day and something was going on and we needed to get to bed or whatever, and I'd filled up. Long story short, I remember saying, if I throw all these balloons right now, I think it was in the house. It might have been in the house. If I throw these right now, they will tell this story at my funeral. Like, remember that one time? Not that dad got us to bed on time again, but do you remember that time goofball dad started throwing water balloons or snowballs or whatever it was in the house? And so sometimes I ask myself, will they tell this story at my funeral? Because if so, I'm gonna. I'm Let it rip. Now, that's not always a good thing, but it's one of those just, this isn't a good idea on a Tuesday night. Yeah, but they'll tell the story one day. So, again, I love that question. Let's return our lives and our homes and our marriages and our relationship with our kids. Yes, they gotta get their math homework turned in, but can we all start looking for a little more fun, Playfulness, joy, laughter. Go get them. And don't play Fortnite. God help you. Love y'all.

[Gail]

Bye.