My Son Converted to Islam for His Girlfriend

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode Title: My Son Converted to Islam for His Girlfriend
Release Date: August 1, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network – Dr. John DeLoney
Description: The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that provides real talk on relationships and mental health challenges.

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1. Caller Heidi’s Struggle with Her Son’s Conversion to Islam

Timestamp: 00:21 – 11:05

Overview:
Heidi, a caller from Chicago and a pastor’s daughter, reaches out to Dr. John DeLoney expressing her profound distress over her son's recent conversion to Islam, which she perceives as being driven by his relationship with his Muslim girlfriend. Heidi grapples with the emotional turmoil of seeing her son diverge from the Christian faith she was raised in, feeling both hurt and fearful about his spiritual future.

Key Points & Discussions:

• Emotional Impact of Religious Conversion:
  Heidi shares her pain over her son's decision, emphasizing that he was "kind of forced into that" due to cultural expectations within his relationship. She feels a deep sense of loss and fears that her son is rejecting the Christian faith she holds dear.

• Dr. John’s Approach to Coping:
  Dr. John encourages Heidi to shift from merely coping to actively rebuilding her relationship with her son and his fiancée. He emphasizes the importance of leading with love and curiosity rather than judgment.

• Emphasizing Relationship Over Religion:
  Dr. John suggests that Heidi should have a heartfelt conversation with her son and his fiancée, expressing her love and support while also sharing her concerns about his faith. He advises focusing on maintaining strong familial bonds despite their differing beliefs.

Notable Quotes:

• Heidi:
  “I’m having a hard time coping with my son’s recent conversion to Islam... it was kind of like a condition for their relationship.”
  [00:21]

• Dr. John DeLoney:
  “Coping is like treading water. I don’t want to just tread water. I want to eventually swim to shore.”
  [03:36]

• Dr. John DeLoney:
  “We’re all worried about our souls in eternity.”
  [06:21]

• Heidi:
  “Shouldn't love be first before religion?”
  [08:08]

• Dr. John DeLoney:
  “Lead with relationship first. I will love you guys to the end of time.”
  [10:23]

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2. Caller James’ Journey Towards Personal Growth and Relationship Dynamics

Timestamp: 15:37 – 43:00

Overview:
James from Philadelphia calls in to discuss his struggles with personal issues affecting his relationship with his fiancée. Having a history of infidelity and challenges with pornography, James sought help and adopted a new religion in 2023. Despite these efforts, he feels his behavior still burdens his fiancée, who often takes on a maternal role to support him. James seeks guidance on how to become more independent and a better partner.

Key Points & Discussions:

• Personal Accountability and Growth:
  Dr. John emphasizes the importance of James taking ownership of his life by making and keeping promises to himself. This includes small, consistent actions that build trust and demonstrate commitment to personal growth.

• Breaking the Mother-Son Dynamic:
  James acknowledges that his fiancée resembles a mother figure, often reminding him to perform basic tasks. Dr. John advises shifting this dynamic by establishing clear boundaries and fostering an equal partnership.

• Developing Discipline and Setting Goals:
  Dr. John recommends actionable steps such as setting weekly goals related to his aspirations of becoming a pastry chef, seeking mentorship, and engaging in regular physical exercise to build discipline.

• Seeking Professional Help:
  Recognizing the depth of James' issues, Dr. John suggests counseling through BetterHelp to address underlying emotional and psychological challenges stemming from his childhood.

Notable Quotes:

• James:
  “I want to be more independent. I want to feel more like a man.”
  [17:33]

• Dr. John DeLoney:
  “I don’t want you just to cope. I want you to grieve this. I want you to be really sad and then I want you to go do the next right thing.”
  [27:56]

• Dr. John DeLoney:
  “Discipline equals freedom.”
  [29:29]

• Dr. John DeLoney:
  “Find two or three men that you respect and ask them if they'll start having breakfast with you once a week.”
  [28:57]

• James:
  “So it’s taking on a very long time.”
  [42:40]

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3. Closing Insights and Encouragement

Focusing on Relationship Building:
Throughout both calls, Dr. John underscores the significance of prioritizing relationships over preconceived beliefs or personal shortcomings. By fostering open, honest communication and demonstrating unwavering support, individuals can navigate complex emotional landscapes and rebuild stronger connections.

Practical Steps for Listeners:

• For Parents Facing Religious Differences:
  Lead with love and understanding. Engage in meaningful conversations with your children and their partners, expressing your concerns without imposing judgments.

• For Individuals Seeking Personal Growth:
  Set small, achievable goals to build discipline. Seek mentorship and professional help to address deeper emotional issues. Focus on building trust within your relationships by taking consistent, positive actions.

Final Thought:
Dr. John DeLoney’s compassionate and pragmatic approach provides listeners with actionable strategies to address personal and relational challenges, emphasizing the power of love, communication, and self-discipline in overcoming adversity.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the transcript provided and is intended to encapsulate the key discussions and insights from the episode "My Son Converted to Islam for His Girlfriend" of The Dr. John Delony Show. For a complete understanding and full context, listeners are encouraged to tune into the actual podcast episode.

Transcript

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Big news. New dates for money and marriage. Getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get [e-mail] events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Heidi]

I'm having a hard time coping with my son's recent conversion to Islam. The thing about this is. Hurts me so much because he was kind of for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me ask you this hard question, and just be honest with me. How much of this feels like he's choosing her over you? What up? What's up? This is John with a Dr. John DeLoney show, taking calls from all over the planet about your mental and emotional health and your relationships and your parents and your kids and whatever else you got going on in your Life. Just John Deloney.com-L O N Y John Deloney.com Ask and Fill out the form if you want to be on the show. I would love to have you. By the way, I've gotten more and more recently long questions on social media. I don't answer any of those ever. So if you want to be on the show, John Deloney.com ask is the way to get on. All right, Chicago, let's talk to Heidi. What's up, Heidi?

[Heidi]

Hi, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How are you, lady?

[Heidi]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing all right. Doing all right. What can I do for you today? How we doing?

[Heidi]

I'm a little nervous, so bear with me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I got you. I got you.

[Heidi]

So I'm gonna read off what I'm thinking, and then we can go from there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Perfect.

[Heidi]

Okay. Okay. So I'm having a hard time coping with my son's recent conversion to Islam. It's a little overwhelming. I'm a pastor's daughter. I'm a Christian, so you can see how that feels. The thing about this is earthly so much because he was kind of forced into that. I guess the culture is if you get, you know, if you meet a Muslim lady as the guy you must convert, you know, there's no choice there. So it was kind of like a condition for their relationship. And it bothers me so much, and I just don't know how to cope with that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can hear it on you. I'm sorry. That's scary, huh? Not scary that he converted to Islam, but scary that you feel like you're losing your son, huh?

[Heidi]

Yes. And hurts me. It hurts a lot. The fact that he doesn't. Like, we raised him to believe in Jesus Christ.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Heidi]

And he said, oh, no, Jesus is. No, no, Jesus is not the son of God. And Jesus is not God and you know, the Trinity and all that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Heidi]

So I'm like, how can you say that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Heidi]

So how do I cope with this? How do I, I know I can change it. Right. But how do I cope with this?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, I don't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't just want to cope. Coping is like treading water. I don't want to just tread water. I want to eventually swim to shore. I want to eventually get back on the boat. You tread water after, after the shipwreck, but eventually we're going to try to make it our way back to shore, right?

[Heidi]

Exactly. And I don't want to hold resentment because I know he's a good guy. And, and the girl, the girl is awesome. She's really good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I know. Like some, I got some great, great friends who are like, who are Muslim. Like, great, great, great, great friends. So let me ask you this hard question and just be honest with me. How much of this feels like he's choosing her over you?

[Heidi]

None.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

None. Okay.

[Heidi]

None.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you, you feel good, like, hey, my boy's supposed to meet a woman and go get married and like that's the way that's supposed to be. So there's none of that?

[Heidi]

Of course. Yes, of course.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so how much of this is. I'm just trying to peel the layers back on this onion here. How much of this is. You are genuinely concerned for his eternity? Because the faith tradition you follow says if he denounces Jesus that he's going to spend eternity in xyz.

[Heidi]

Yes, I'm, I'm. Because I was raised that way, right? I'm Christian.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, I don't care how you're raised. We're all raised ways that we do differently. I mean, I'm just trying to get to the like, are you concerned that a truck is coming right at your son and he's about to get run over?

[Heidi]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do you love your boy?

[Heidi]

I do, with all my heart.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you want a relationship with him?

[Heidi]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you want a relationship with his, his soon to be new wife?

[Heidi]

Yes, I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You want a relationship with his grandkids?

[Heidi]

Of course.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right. So those are all important things. And I've dealt with each one of those like, no, I don't want any more relationship with him. If he said this, I'm out. If she converts to this, I quit. Like, she's not welcome in our house anymore, all that.

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So any self respecting person who converts to a new religion, who has any sort of change that's different from the picture their mom or dad had for their life. Any person who makes a big shift, who I think is a person of integrity, understands that there's going to be a season of grief and that's okay. That's a way of mom and dad saying, I, I had a picture for you and I loved you and I need a minute because that picture's different. Okay?

[Heidi]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so there's something about you sitting down with him and this is a big shock. And to hear somebody say about your beloved Jesus, I don't believe in that anymore. Even if part of you thinks, yeah, you still do, but you're doing this just for her, like whatever you think. Okay, once that shock is over, I think it is important for you to take him and her out for breakfast one day or lunch one day and say, I just. I wrote some things down and I want y' all to listen to me. And then to say, I love you. I'm going to be the best grandma you've ever met in your life. And look at his fiance or new wife and say, I think you're amazing. I'm so glad my son met you, think you're going to be a great mother, all that stuff. And then say, I believe in Jesus. And I would not be a good mother, I wouldn't be a good mother in law if I didn't tell you both I'm worried about your future salvation. And so there's going to be times when I'm sad because I believe in Jesus. And it makes me sad because my belief, my tradition, my faith tradition says, this is what happens when you die and you don't believe in X, Y or Z. And if they're people of integrity, they will exhale and say, we get that. I get it. And we're not doing this to hurt you. We're not doing this to poke at you. We're not doing this to rub us in your face. We, your pain and grief is real and we get that. And we also am grateful that you're going to be a great mother. Grandmother.

[Heidi]

Yes. Okay. Well, I appreciate it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the deal.

[Heidi]

It turns me that it has to be a condition, you know?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know.

[Heidi]

Where's the love?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you mean?

[Heidi]

Shouldn't be love be first before religion? Shouldn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It sounds like he sounds like he's. It sounds like he's fallen head over heels for this woman. And so because he loves her so much, he's then going to change his. His faith.

[Heidi]

Right? That's that hurts me a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sounds like love came. It did come first.

[Heidi]

That hurts me a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Most would say faith comes before love. Where's your hurt come from? Heidi? Where's your hurt come from?

[Heidi]

My hurt comes from. What do you mean when you say that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can hear your hurt. Is it just that your son is no longer identifying as Christian? He's identifying as Muslim.

[Heidi]

Right. What gets me mad is that they're pretenders. That's another issue. Because if you're really a Muslim, and for you it's important that you follow the faith, then you should be following it 100%. They don't follow it 100%. Both of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So can I.

[James]

Can I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I make a recommendation to you?

[Heidi]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would get out of his head. Because what's happening is you're spending a lot of energy inside of trying to get inside of his head and try to wonder why he's doing what he's doing and how he's doing and what he's doing and why he's not doing what he's doing good enough and all that. And what you're doing is you're making yourself crazy because you'll never know what's going on inside his heart and mind. You'll never know what's going on in his relationship ever. You can only know what's going on in your heart and mind.

[Heidi]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And anytime you sit down with him, if you want a relationship with him. That's why I asked that question, because that's important often in this situation. You know, if there's somebody who's Muslim who converts to Christianity, parents say, I don't want you in my life. Or someone who's Christian and like someone who goes to a Baptist church, converts to Catholicism, someone says, I don't want, like, that. You're not my kid anymore. And that's a different conversation. That doesn't sound like what you want.

[Heidi]

No, that's not what I want.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then I want you to lead relationship first. I will love you guys to the end of time. And I'm also Heidi from Chicago, so I'm opinionated, and I'm gonna speak my mind. But know that I'm always speaking it because I love you. And if you feel that way, say, hey, if you're converting to Muslim, y' all need to go all in.

[Heidi]

Exactly. That's what I'm thinking.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Heidi]

You know, because then you're being a hypocrite.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. It's hard to go at relationship full relationships when you go judgment first.

[Heidi]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I Would love you to flip it around and go curiosity first. I think you're an amazing woman. I think you're my son and I love you. Tell me about this. I don't understand it. Well, mom, we had to do this because of this and this and this. Well, you don't even live like that. How do you square that up? Teach me about that. See how you're going curiosity first instead of you hypocrites, right? Somebody starts calling me a hypocrite, I'm just. I'm out. I'm out. If somebody asked me questions and asked me to teach them about something or why I'm doing something, I'm in on that. Somebody sits down and says, hey, I love you and I'm going to love you to the end of time. I'm going to be the best grandma you ever met in your life. But you got to teach me about this. I don't understand this at all. And by the way, I believe in this particular faith, and I believe in it till the end of time. And I just got to tell you, I'm going to be heartbroken because I'm worried about your soul in eternity. And they may look at you and say, we're worried about your soul in eternity. And we be like, ah, we're all worried about each other's souls past the pancakes. But let's lead relationship first, if that's what you want. Let's lead curiosity first. And let's get out of your son's head trying to guess why. Make up stories about why he's doing what he's doing and make up stories about why they're not doing what they're not doing. And to judge those stories that you've made up, it's just a way to be exhausted. And for everybody listening, I've got some amazing Muslim friends and just. I've got some amazing Christian friends, and I've chosen to lead relationship first. My friends know where I stand. They know I'm Christian. They know where I stand on stuff. They know my faith and. But they also know everybody's welcome at my house. I'm glad to hear that from you, Heidi. And by the way, you're allowed to have your heart broken that your son is no longer in the faith you raised him in. You're allowed to be heartbroken about that. And hopefully he's a son of integrity that understands why his mom's heart's broken. It's both. And hopefully that's the case. Thank you for the call, my sister. I appreciate that. I don't want you just to cope. I want you to grieve this. I want you to be really sad and then I want you to go do the next right thing. But I think all of this is get out of his head and have some real conversation over a meal and let them both know I'm gonna be the best grandma you ever had. I'm gonna give my opinion because I'm an opinionated Chicago woman and y' all teach me about a few things because I don't understand why y' all doing what you're doing. That is a recipe for a great long term relationship. We come back, a man wonders how to end the mother son relationship dynamic between him and his fiance. Poncho is back as a supporter of this show and I'm super jazzed about it. If you've seen me on stages across the country, if you're watching me on this show, checking me out right now, or recently even saw me when I was out fishing with my son in the surf during a recent trip to Gulf Shores. Sometimes you might even see me mowing my yard out here in Nashville. I'm almost always wearing Poncho shirts. Poncho makes the absolute best outdoor performance shirts for men, period. Whether they are sponsoring this show or not. You're going to almost always see me wearing Poncho because I love their stuff and of course, I love their denims and their insanely soft flannels. But now that it's super hot outside when I'm out, I'm wearing Poncho's ultra light shirts too. They're lightweight and they're breathable, yet they're tough enough to handle whatever chaos my day brings. I'm talking everything from traveling to being up to my chest, fishing in the surf or doing yard work. These shirts move with you, not against you. They dry fast and they don't cling or bunch up and they come in slim or regular fits. So you're not walking around looking like a sausage link or a circus tent. Head over to ponchooutdoors.com DeLoney and try them out for yourself right now. Customers get 10 bucks off their very first purchase. Just sign up with your email. That's poncho outdoors.com DeLoney and trust me, Poncho ultralight shirts will turn into a summer essential for you too. All right, let's go out to Philadelphia, where Kelly was born and raised. In the playground is where she spent most of her days and talked to James. What's up, James?

[James]

Hi. What's going on. Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up, man? How we doing?

[James]

I'm pretty good, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent. What's up?

[James]

Nervous? A little nervous.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't be good. You're all good, man. You're all good.

[James]

All right. Me and my fiance, we've been dating for about, let's say, eight years in October. We started dating in 2017. I've had a long history of, like, infidelity and porn issues and stuff like that, and. But in, like, 2023, I decided to kick that habit and try to get myself better and get some actual help and stuff, and adopted a new religion. And that helped a lot. But now I've been dealing with myself, and it's been hurting her in little small ways. It's kind of like, emotionally, she's, like, carrying me like a mother. I have trouble initiating things. I forget a lot of stuff, like initiating connection and stuff like that. And then she'll, like, often she'll have to remind me to do certain things, just even basic, like hygiene and, you know, telling me about stores around the house. And, you know, I'm not. I'm not good at, like, being independent, making good decisions and stuff like that. Especially, like, finances and stuff like that as well. I'm just, you know. See if she's a big fan of yours. She'll. She'll watch your videos, but, like, every day and I'll look at them and I just sit here like, you're a good guy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I appreciate that. So what. What's your, like, bottom line? Question.

[James]

I want to be more independent. I want to feel more like a man. I want to be able to step up. I feel like I'm going to lose her, you know, I don't want to keep on. Keep her waiting around and having to carry me and, you know, I always feel like I have this mental overload, and I figured you might be able to help and try to look into what can I do to be able to be able to step up as a better partner, potentially a husband?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, y' all been. She'd been your fiance for eight years?

[James]

No, I engaged. I asked her to marry me last year, but we've been together for. Well, we'll be eight years in October.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And say that one more time. How long you been engaged?

[James]

About a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

About a year. Okay. And she's. You say she's acting more like your mom than your fiance?

[James]

I would say so, yes. It doesn't feel like an equal partnership, you know, I mean, there's good things about me, but it's it's the things that we often fight about, which is what she'll like, bring up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to move her off to the side for a second and just, and just have a straight up conversation. Just two guys. Is that cool?

[James]

Well, just me right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what I mean. Just me and you. Just me and you. And I need you to hear me say, I am no better than you. Okay. I'm older than you and I'm still trying to be the best dad and husband I can be. And I don't get it right a lot. Okay? So when I talk direct to you, I don't want you to say like, I'm like some superior something or other. I'm sitting in some taller chair than you're in. Okay? There's just two guys sitting across the table. We just happen to be on a phone. Is that cool?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. The reason she's acting like your mom is because she has to. So my question for you is, what is it about you inside your chest? Make a fist in your hand right now. Can you make a fist?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. I want you to put that right square in the middle of your chest and hold it there. Okay? What is it about this inside the middle of your chest that you don't feel like you're worth basic hygiene? Showering, brushing your teeth, putting on deodorant. What is it about that hole inside the middle of your chest that you don't feel like you're worth getting a full time job, getting two full time jobs because you're just in your 20s, you're young. What is it about that hole in the middle of your chest that you don't handle your money right? Like, at the end of the day, why do you feel like you're not worth even getting up and brushing your teeth for?

[James]

Well, I can honestly say for a long time, especially growing up, I wish I could let go because I'm getting too old for this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, we're not. We're not going to get to that stuff yet. You're already, you already. You already shamed yourself halfway through that answer. You see what I'm saying? Like you can even get the answer all the way out before you're like, stupid. I should be old by now. I. I just want to hear you for a second. Okay? Where does that story come from? You're not even worth brushing your teeth for.

[James]

Mediocrity, Being okay with mediocre talk.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Talk directly into your phone for me.

[James]

Dealing with being okay with mediocrity.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but where does that come from? That's a story. Is your old man still around?

[James]

My biological father isn't here anymore. That was when I was very young. But my stepdad is still. He's still living? Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did he have high expectations for you? Did he love you? Well.

[James]

I would believe he loves me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not what I asked you. Did he love you? Well, did he hug you? Did he tell you he was proud of you? Did he give you a good example for you to follow and how to treat a woman, how to treat a wife?

[James]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What about your mom? What's your relationship with her?

[James]

It's okay, I guess. We're. I want to say cordial, but we're not, like, the best of friends.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, she shouldn't be friends. She's your mom.

[James]

Yeah, I mean, like a. Like a close relationship, but we talk and stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where's your. Where's your bio dad? He leave or. He passed away.

[James]

Well, he passed away.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How'd he die?

[James]

That's unsure of. The police say it's one thing, but the family, like, my family, says another thing, so it's never barely been.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What'd the police say?

[James]

They said it was a suicide.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. How old were you?

[James]

I was a baby. Probably like, a few months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you. You may know this, and I'm preaching to the choir here, but I just want to say it for everybody listening. And you may not know this, and so this may be the first time you're hearing this. If you're a little baby and your dad dies, especially a violent death, whether he was murdered by somebody, whether he died by suicide, and your mom, who's caring for an infant, suddenly loses her ride, or die in a violent, scary way, your body will take that on. That will be in your nervous system, in the way you respond to threats, the way you respond to discomfort, the way you respond to peace. And if you had men coming in and out of your life when you were a young kid, different boyfriends, different. Different stepfathers that treated your mama kind of way, then you had a stepfather move in a little bit more permanently, that he was fine, he was mediocre, he didn't step in and try to be a dad, but he didn't. He didn't do anything bad or anything like that. And your mom's just trying to. Been surviving for the last 15 or 20 years. First thing I want you to do is give James a little bit of peace because you survived. Okay. Are we square on that?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are you right now?

[James]

28.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

28 years old. Can you just say out loud, my name is James. I'm 28 and I survived.

[James]

Hi, my name is James. I'm 28 and I Survived, period.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Now, here's the deal. You survived, and the things you had to do as a kid to survive are now going to be the things that blow up your adulthood. So what you have to do is decide, I'm through surviving, and now I'm going to begin to heal. I'm going to become a grown man. And the challenge for you is you don't have a great picture of what that even looks like. All you have is the Internet. You got. Hopefully you have a. The religion that you adopted. You've got some good mentors and role models. Most young men 21 to 31 that don't have good male role models in their life are getting it from the Internet. That's why we get all kind of screwy stuff. But it sounds like this woman loves you. Is that fair?

[James]

Yeah, definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. She loves you so long. She's hung on for eight years since you were 20 years old. But also she's still having to remind you to do basic things. And so the way that you are going to get your feet underneath you and begin to stand up is you're going to begin to make a series of promises to yourself, and you're going to keep your promises to yourself, because the first thing you have to do is begin to trust you. And you don't trust you. You don't even trust yourself to put on deodorant. You don't even trust yourself to. To brush your teeth, much less be the husband that you want to be. Be the future father that you want to be one day. Fair?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where do you work right now?

[James]

I work in a warehouse.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you do in that warehouse?

[James]

Case picking.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you want to do one day?

[James]

Well, my dream is maybe a professional baker or pastry chef.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A pastry chef?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Name one thing you've done in the past year to get you closer to that dream. Nothing. So starting tomorrow, you begin once a week, getting online and getting a recipe and going and cooking a pastry for you and your wife. I mean, you and your fiance. Fair?

[James]

Yeah, do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're going to begin. You're going to put it on a calendar, and you're going to ask her, please don't miss this. I'm going to make fresh coffee, and I'm going to make us a pastry once a week. I'm going to practice it, and I'm going to make it because the dream you have of being a pastry chef, you don't know how to cook it. You don't know how to run a business. You don't even know what that life feels like or looks like. You just like the picture of what that looks like. So we're going to take a tiny, tiny step. And if you want to be really out there, like, like truly step into it. Find somebody from a friend of a friend of a friend's dad, who maybe is a chef for a living or as a pastry chef for a living, and say, I want to take you out, sir, for coffee. I'm going to take you out, ma', am for coffee. And I want to learn about your job. How, how do you even get qualified for this? How'd you step into this role? What does that even look like? Or instead of throwing boxes in a warehouse, being a picker at a warehouse, find two pastry chef, like two pastry places and just take out the trash and clean the floors there and begin to practice and learn. You see what I'm saying?

[James]

I hear you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, this. This is you writing down on a piece of paper. I want to do this. So by the end of this year, I will have made 52 of my own pastries and shared them with my fiance. I. I'm gonna do all the dishes. I'm gonna clean up all the dishes. This house gonna look spic and span when I get done, but I'm gonna do the work from start to finish. I'm gonna go buy my own ingredients, and some of these recipes are gonna be a disaster. And when they taste disgusting, we're all gonna laugh about it. We're gonna have a good time with it. Cause failure is gonna be part of it. And when they're delicious, I'm gonna put a check mark by that one. And maybe I'll make one for my mom too, once I get it down. And over the next year, I want to have three meetings with somebody who does pastry stuff for a living. And I'm gonna send out 10 resumes for various pastry places in the community. I'm gonna put a checklist on a note card. No apps, no nothing. I'm gonna put a checklist on a note card in my mirror. And I'm going to do this stuff every day. Whether that's 10 push ups, 10 air squats, and 10 jumping jacks. Sets of five. I'm. I'm gonna do something movement wise. I'm gonna brush my teeth. I'm gonna do those things. You get what I'm saying?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's about you beginning to take ownership of your life. Do you have a pen?

[James]

Not on me right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. I want you to remember this. There's a book that I think is one of the health books of all time, and it's written by my buddy Jocko Willick. It's called Discipline Equals Freedom. It's the easiest book to read ever. And it's a masterpiece, I think, because there's a ton of wisdom and depth in that book. I want you to get it today, okay?

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can get it on Spotify audiobook or you can buy the hardback cover. I would buy the hardback if I was you, but it's a simple, simple, simple read. Okay. But I want you to follow that book page by page, and it's not even a lot of pages in it, okay?

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a very easy read. Your girlfriend, sl. Fiance/future wife is going to treat you like a mother until she doesn't have to. And so the way to change the mother son dynamic is to become the man that you want to be. Here's the final homework you got. Okay, you ready? You have to find two or three men that you respect and ask them if they'll start having breakfast with you once a week. Because you have to put a couple of men in your life that are years ahead of you. Who are the dads you want to be, who are the husbands you want to be? Who are the workers that you want to become? And you're going to have to walk alongside them and build a relationship with them because you don't have a good picture of what this looks like. I'm going to give you one more thing I want you to do. Hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with three months from my friends at BetterHelp. I want you to start going to counseling. I'm going to give it to you for free for three months. And you can do it on your computer. You can just FaceTime the person or zoom or whatever, whatever digital interface it is. You can even do it on your phone. And I want you to start talking about your childhood and start digging into some of this stuff. Okay? So it's game on today's day one, James, of you saying, I survived 28 years old. It's way past time. But we can only start from where we are. I'm going to start becoming the man I want to become. Discipline will equal freedom. Tiny Tiny wins. Doing the next right thing, taking little steps towards this dream I have. And that starts with brushing your teeth in the morning. It starts with seeing a counselor and being vulnerable. It starts with doing push ups in the morning. Day one, brother. Thanks for the call. Game on. When we come back, a man wonders how to give the appropriate amount of respect to his new boss. Everybody's talking about AI and the Internets and your digital privacy. And I want to give you a quick word about my friends at Delete Me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel like digital trails leading bad scam artists right back to us? Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks with a ph where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. You might get an email or a text or a phone call. The person or the AI bot more than likely on the other end. Sounds like someone who's trying to help you out. They're not. And with these new technological advancements that are moving way faster than any of us can comprehend, no one is really safe. So what are we supposed to do? You can start controlling what you can. You can learn about how to be careful online and offline with your digital privacy. And you can sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Deleteme because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. And that way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my information. They've reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, the harassment, and the other online threats before they even start and take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney today for 20% off the annual plan that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's join delete me.com deloney go check them out. All right, we're back. Hey, don't forget, take two seconds and subscribe to the show. Hit the like button or whatever you do on the Internet to tell the the overlords that you like this show. Let's go to Cody, Wyoming and talk to Frank. What's up, Frank?

[James]

How you doing, Dr. John? I'm good. Taking a break from work here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How are you, man?

[James]

I'm doing well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up?

[James]

Okay, well, I've got kind of a practical question that leads into more of a philosophical question. So I'll start with my practical question. How do I give my boss the appropriate amount of respect when my interactions with her make me think that she maybe doesn't have the care of the group, the care of the team at first in mind. And, and even the technical knowledge she possesses doesn't really fit the role.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not going to like my answer. If you don't trust the leadership where you work, you need to find a new place to work.

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because it will end in ash. And usually since you're not in leadership, you will end up in ash. When, when somebody else isn't trustworthy, the thing you have to do is look in the mirror and say, I can trust myself.

[James]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's hard to be an employee who shows up early, works really hard, puts their name on things. When you don't believe the person you're working for has integrity, that doesn't mean you're going to agree with them. I don't agree with my boss all the time. I agree with my boss on a lot of stuff, but I trust him.

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what I mean?

[James]

Yep, yep. I hear you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And almost, almost like behind closed doors, I've seen. I have high, high trust, high trust. And so I guess, I guess I'd tell you I would start a process of finding a new place to work.

[James]

Yeah. Can I give a little more context?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, sure.

[James]

So she came in, let's say, about five months ago now. The boss prior to that was promoted to a higher position. And he was great. I mean, he always had my back. Why? I enjoy working at the current place through a lot of hard work on my part and struggling through a very tough project. I was promoted recently as well. So I'm kind of right under this new boss who has come in and kind of replaced him. And so I love the company. It's a great company. I. I love working for the team. That's a great team as well. It's just this new boss has come in and it's just, it's a struggle.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is the person being dishonest?

[James]

It just seems like she doesn't care. And it really grinds my gears well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So there's a difference between I have and I would work for someone who's inept. That's fine. If you'll let me just do my job and take care of my people, I'm okay with that. Especially for a season. If you're a person that lacks integrity, then I, I don't. I, I can't trust that there's not a second set of books. I can't trust that this company is safe. I can't trust that my job is safe. I can't trust you that my team is safe. So I'm not working for you.

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So trust for me isn't that we agree on everything, not how we vote, not how we go to church, not how, like, I don't need. We can figure that stuff out. It's. It's not even that you're the best at what. They even know what you're doing. I would make a different decision than you, but you're the boss. You get to make the calls. That's fine. Where I'm saying you got a bail is if there's integrity issues, because here's the deal. That kind of leader, if there's a leader who's just feels like she doesn't care, she's just in it for the title, she's not going to last very long.

[James]

Yeah, that's what I'm. That's what I'm figuring.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Unless, though, at the first sign of trouble, she's the kind of person who lacks integrity and rolls over on her number two.

[James]

Yeah. And that's what I'm worried about. So I guess time will tell on that. I guess. How do I best support her? Because I have had no time at the company. I know how things run, and I want the group to remain in a healthy spot. So how do I best support her and her new role to help her get, you know, comfortable with it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here is something that I have been a number two employee at a lot of different places reporting to, like, either directly to the president or directly to, like, the provost. Right. Like, that's been my. That's been mostly my role or the Associate Dean reporting to the dean. Right. And in my higher ed context, a couple of questions I began to ask to every single new supervisor I had was the following. What's the greatest gifts I can give you in this current role? What do you want and. Or need from me? The second one is, how do I give you news you don't want to hear? What. How do I give you bad news? Like, do you want it just in an email? Do you want it direct? You want me to text you? Do you want me to come running in? Like, how do you want to hear it? Every. Every supervisor, every boss have ever asked that question always gets a big smile and has leaned back in their seat and said, I never thought about that. Because here's what's going to happen. I want to take as many of those hard things and give it to them in a way that they have told me that they want it. So when I have to give them bad news, hey, this idea is not going to work. Or you asked me to do this and it blew up in this way. Or you asked for my budget proposal and you slash this, here's what's going to happen. Then you can. The ground you can stand on is, hey, this is exactly how you told me to tell you.

[James]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The third thing is I would ask, how can I. How do you envision me leading this group of people that reports to me? And what you're doing by asking these questions is saying, I am going to trust first. And if she answers, I don't know, I don't know. That's your job. I don't know. Okay. Or if she says, I want it like this, I want it like this, I don't want it like this, and then she begins to beat you up for it, then you know she's not a person of integrity.

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It might be, though, that you walk in and ask those questions and she goes, close the door. And she goes, oh, thank God. Who knows? It might be. Is there any chance she's as nervous about you as you are of her?

[James]

I think that is some of it. There's a nervousness or anxiousness there, but it's. It's almost like she has a front of, I'm tough and I don't let things get to me. And. But it comes off as, I don't care.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Have you ever worked for a woman executive before?

[James]

No, this is first time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. My experience has been there's a shield that women executives have to have to get that far because they sit at boardrooms and they're the only person in the room job after job after job. And men have that same thing. It's just that when you're only around men leaders, it's just kind of. It's. It's this. Understood, this is the way this is, and it's not. But it just feels that way.

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so there's something powerful about any supervisor that you're separate with, male or female, but any supervisor. And sitting down and saying, all right, how could I best be a supporter for you in this role?

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And let me ask you one more question. Is there any part of you that wanted that job and didn't get it?

[James]

No. No. Okay, maybe in the future, but not. Not at this point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I would. I would say that, too.

[James]

Say. Say what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would let her know, I don't want your job.

[James]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Like, I'm really glad that so and so brought in somebody from the outside. Awesome. How can I best support you in this job? Because, by the way, if she wins, y' all all win, right?

[James]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so if you feel like she doesn't care, give her a reason to care. And if it feels like she's walking around with armor up, give her an environment where, if she chooses to, she can drop the armor a little bit.

[James]

Yeah, that's what I'm working on. Because it seems to be taking on a very long time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, when you ask somebody direct, then they can choose to turtle up on you or they can choose to give you some very clear instruction direction. It's kind of like. It's kind of like I take it out of this context completely. Take it home. Are you married?

[James]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, just imagine, like, well, I did the dishes and I mowed the lawn. And so tonight, right? And it's like, hey, I told. Like, you didn't even get my. Like, just ask. You know what I mean? Like, you want to hook up tonight? Yes. Okay, let's do it. Like, there's something about, like, I'm sending a lot of these leadership messages, and she's not Seem to be. Get. Okay, cool. Let's just go in the office and just ask. How can I best support you? I've been here a long time, and I want you to win. Like, you've been here a few weeks, a few months. What are you seeing? How can I best do this? How do you want to hear news that you don't want to hear? Because I want to give it to you in a way that's palatable. How can you go straight into it and ask those questions? And in some ways, it's putting her on the spot, but in many ways, it's giving her a. Okay, I got a path here now. This would really be awesome if. That'd be fantastic, man. That's what. That's what I would do. If there's trust issues and it's integrity, you can't work there, man. Your integrity is not worth it. Or if you feel like I can't be a person of integrity and I've had that before, I can't be a person of integrity and still be here, then, yeah, it's time to go. It's time to go. And you love that company. You should grieve it. You've spent time there. You've built something up. You got a good team. Yeah. It's going to break your heart. I'm not going to go down on this boat because the person is shooting holes in it and duct taping them over and saying everything's fine. Not going to be a part of that. Thanks for the call, my brother. I really appreciate it. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Life can be a mess. Work can be stressful. And when these collide, when your regular life and your work life just smash together your mind and your body, feel it. And there's plenty of data showing how workplace stress and even your boss can have a major impact on your mental and emotional stress. And most of us can't just take a vacation from work every time that we want to. But we can start with small steps to manage our work stress. First, we got to do the things that keep our bodies and relationships strong. Exercise, sunlight, eating right, relationship check ins. And when you need someone to sit with you and help you navigate things moving forward, getting a great therapist to help walk with you can be a game changer. If you're thinking about trying therapy, reach out to my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online, which means it's affordable and it's convenient. No six month waiting lists to get started. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. And BetterHelp has an app store rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's incredible. Manage your workday challenges with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, Kelly, something cool happened. What is it?

[D]

All right, so a couple weeks ago we had a caller on named Katie that had she was resentful about some of her husband's career decisions and where they had left them. So she sent in a follow up. She said, I just wanted to share a quick follow up on my call last Thursday. Dr. John suggested that I write my husband a letter telling him how proud I am of him and how excited I am to build something new together, et cetera. Well, I did it about an hour after we got off the phone and my husband happened to come home early from work because we were leaving for a trip the next day. I sat him down on the couch and read the letter to him and it was very special, very meaningful moment. He was like, what prompted this? And I told him, remember how I told you I was going to be a guest on a podcast. Anyway, my letter led to a really important conversation and some spontaneous physical intimacy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

Which is kind of in short supply because I'm pregnant and we have a young child.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Could have done without that. That got weird.

[D]

So the next day, we flew out to visit my parents with our three year old. While in the airport, a lady leaned over to me and said, I want to compliment y' all on how kindly you're talking to your husband and how kindly he's talking to you. I've been married for 44 years, and it's such an encouragement to observe your family. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, this made us feel so good. I'm not saying that writing my husband a letter fixed everything, but it's really helped.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's awesome. The next right step. Good for you, Katie. I'm proud of you. Proud of you. And I'm proud of you guys for being in an airport with a little one while you're pregnant and still talking to each other nicely. Dang, Gina. That's a big win. Congratulations. I'm proud of y'. All. Sometimes the letter doesn't fix anything, but you can look in the mirror and know I did. I reached out, I. I put all my cards on the table and I said, I see you. And sometimes it's the first right step in building an entire new marriage. It's amazing. Congratulations, Katie. Thanks for that note of encouragement. Love you guys. Bye.