My Wife and I Are Sexually Mismatched

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode Title: My Wife and I Are Sexually Mismatched
Date: March 30, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony, Ramsey Network

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Overview & Main Theme

This episode focuses on the realities of relationships where partners are mismatched in their sexual desires and explores how couples navigate intimacy, trust, and support through challenges like trauma, infidelity, and mental health issues. Dr. Delony takes calls from real listeners, provides compassionate, clear advice, and reminds listeners of the importance of honest conversation and relentless curiosity with partners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Sexual Mismatches in Marriage

Caller: Nathan (00:05–16:31)

• Nathan's Situation
  Married 17 years, two kids, describes a lack of "excitement or adventure" in the bedroom. Feels that some of his desires for intimacy "are unlikely to be met" because of sexual mismatches and past trauma his wife revealed.

• Key Challenges

  • Initiation anxiety: Wife feels anxious when Nathan initiates, leading them to shift initiation roles, with some positive results.
  • Boundaries: Wife sets clear limits—e.g., not willing to wear lingerie—which leaves Nathan navigating unmet desires without pressuring her.

• Dr. Delony’s Guidance

  • Types of Desire (08:20):
    “Researchers have noted two different types of desire. One is...spontaneous desire, which is what Hollywood has sold us... But there’s another type...responsive desire. It's slow, it builds.”
    — Dr. John Delony [09:01]
  • Getting Curious vs. Demanding (11:13):
    "Ask, with curiosity, not judgment: ‘Hey, what is it about my approach? What is it when I look at you and say, I want to be with you? What is it about that that sets your body's alarms off?’”
    — Dr. John Delony [11:31]
  • Respecting Boundaries (12:59):
    “There does come a point when you say, ‘I’m going to stop beating my head against the wall. I’ll always be interested...and that door is shut, because I’m going to respect that person and go move on with my life.’”

• Tools/Suggestions

  • The “Erotic Envelope System”: Each partner writes down fantasies or desires; they discuss and try some, or at least learn why a line might exist.
    — Dr. John Delony [15:47]
  • Questions for Humans: Intimacy Deck: To facilitate open conversations in a non-confrontational way.

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2. Rebuilding Trust After Betrayal

Callers: Ashley & Joe (19:29–37:47)

• Ashley’s Confession:
  Six months into the relationship (with pregnancy), she deleted Instagram messages despite an agreement for total transparency, triggering Joe’s deep-seated trust issues due to past betrayals.

• Joe’s Struggle:
  Desperately values trust after being “trickle-truthed” in previous relationships. Finds it hard to extend trust after repeated promises are broken.

• Dr. Delony’s Nuanced Advice:

  • Stop with “deal breaker” threats:
    “It’s a constant sort of Damocles over your relationship...Either have the courage to say, ‘Okay, I’m out,’ or have the courage to say, ‘This broke my heart. This hurts.’” [26:26]
  • Concrete Path to Trust:
    Suggests creating a “seven-day path back to trust.” Lay out explicit expectations for a week, check in, and then expand if all goes well, giving Ashley actionable steps and Joe a way to actually observe change versus just hoping for it.
    • “If she walks the path, then after seven days, y'all have a breakfast already on the calendar and...create a new path together for the next seven days.” [30:48]
  • Mutual Accountability & Ownership:
    Rejects the idea of constant surveillance or punitive “testing,” focusing on both giving up and receiving trust.
    • “I'm gonna have to put my last foot back in the boat and risk again. Risk you hurting me again.” [32:58]
  • Creativity in Reconnecting:
    If social media is a flashpoint, find creative ways to sustain connection in person, not just through memes or DMs. [34:35]

• Recommended Tools:

  • The Together App: Micro-habits to rebuild relationship health.
  • Book: Building a Non-Anxious Life: Gives couples a vision for rebuilding trust based on healthy models.

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3. Supporting a Partner with an Eating Disorder

Caller: Connor (41:15–53:47)

• Connor’s Situation:
  Dating a woman with an active eating disorder; feels helpless and unsure how to be supportive without overstepping.

• Dr. Delony’s Clear Guidelines:

  • Role Clarity:
    “You cannot at any point ever be her therapist or her physician.” [42:44]
  • Supportive Language:
    “How can I love you today? ...What does today look like?” [43:48]
  • Powerless but Present:
    Recognizes the difficulty of watching someone struggle with a “lethal” disorder and the limitations of being a boyfriend, not a caretaker.
  • Handle Negative Self-talk:
    “When you say, ‘Oh my gosh, I look fat in this,’ … What are some things that are helpful for me to respond with?” [45:29]
  • Crisis Action:
    Willing to call for help: “I’d rather you be alive in five years and hate me still than me keep the peace right now and you not be here in five years.” [47:58]
  • Education and Humility:
    Admit the limitations of book learning; relational wisdom comes from presence, asking, and honest engagement.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sexual Desire Mismatch
  "An F250 is never going to be as fast off the line as a Maserati is. That doesn't mean it's a broken car. It's just different."
  — Dr. John Delony [10:10]

• On Boundaries and Anxiety in Intimacy
  "When somebody says, ‘Your approach makes me anxious,’ … you have to go through that anxiety."
  — Dr. John Delony [10:23]

• On Trust and Rebuilding after Betrayal
  "Over-intellectualizing it and over-therapizing it isn’t super helpful right now... Six months in, y’all already are on your third relationship."
  — Dr. John Delony [27:09]

• On Relational Growth
  "This might be the greatest thing that ever happened to you if y’all choose to wipe the deck, build something stronger, make commitments, and actually lean into those commitments."
  — Dr. John Delony [37:11]

• On Being a Supportive Partner with Eating Disorders
  "How can I best care for you right now? Because you can't fix it. This is an unfixable thing."
  — Dr. John Delony [47:19]

• On Wisdom
  "Some people think wisdom is, I gotta have all the answers...No, I need to make sure I have the ability to go find the information and the humility and courage to seek it."
  — Dr. John Delony [53:55]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Nathan on Sexual Mismatch: 00:05–16:31
• Ashley & Joe on Trust and Betrayal: 19:29–37:47
• Connor on Supporting a Partner with an Eating Disorder: 41:15–53:47

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Tone & Style

• Compassionate, real, down-to-earth: Dr. Delony creates a safe space, normalizes challenge, and offers practical—and sometimes wryly humorous—solutions. He often grounds advice in current research and always centers curiosity and respect.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Sexual desire mismatches are common and often rooted in deeper contexts—curiosity, not accusation, builds bridges.
• Trust can be rebuilt after betrayal, but it requires honesty, actionable baby steps, and risk from both parties.
• Supporting a partner through serious mental health challenges is about presence, boundaries, and asking how you can be helpful, not trying to "fix" the problem.
• Relationships evolve—and so must the ways we communicate, play, and connect.

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Additional Resources Mentioned

• Questions for Humans: Intimacy Deck
• The “John Delony Erotic Envelope System”
• The Together App
• Building a Non-Anxious Life (Book)

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Transcript

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

How do I come to terms knowing that some of my desires for intimacy are unlikely to be met with my wife?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To what degree is she willing to say, okay, here's the world that must be true for that to happen versus that will never happen. This conversation's over. Hey, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloitte Tony show coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, a rainy Nashville, Tennessee. Glad y' all are here. Talking about your marriages, your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life, figuring out what's the next right move for us. All right, let's go to Kansas City and talk to Nathan. Hey, Nathan. What's up, man?

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Hey, Dr. John.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm good, man. What's up with you?

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Oh, just appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and taking the time to. Yeah. Chat with me a little bit. Listen for a long time and appreciate all you've done to help people out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I appreciate that, man. Thank you so much. What's going on with you, man?

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Yeah, well, my. My question really is about just how do I come to terms knowing that some of my desires for intimacy are unlikely to be met with my wife?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Desires for intimacy. Talking about your sex life. Okay, so paint me a picture of that. Yep.

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Well, we've been married 17 years. We've got two kids. We're both in our mid to late 40s. And, you know, there's just things that haven't been a part of our sex life really, throughout our entire relationship. And, you know, a lot of things kind of over time have gotten in the way of that, whether it be, you know, we had kids very early on in our marriage and didn't have a lot of time, just the two of us, and we're both busy people, and, you know, time is a challenge. Challenge when you've got two teenagers and all those sort of things. And so got to a point last summer where we had a really honest conversation. I shared, you know, kind of some things that I was really missing in that area. And she was honest about how she felt about some of those things. And so kind of just became pretty obvious that some of the things that I was looking for were unlikely to happen. And to be clear, these aren't, you know, wild sort of things. They're pretty run of the mill, honestly, I think for most people. But, yeah,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

as much as you're comfortable with. Give me some ideas. Yeah. What is in. In. In your life when you look. I mean, your mind, when you look back on the decade and a half Or y' all probably dated before you get married, so the last two decades, and you've built this world with this person. But what's. What's been missing?

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Yeah, Well, I think it really comes down to just. There's just not as much excitement or adventure in that part of life. And I think I've come to a better understanding and talking with her, understanding maybe why that's the case.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What did she say? What did she say about that?

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

What did she say about that? She eventually, like, shared that there's some past history that I was unaware of prior to me that impacted her, you know, approach to things, in addition to just where she's at, has her drive, and those sort of things were just kind of mismatched in that area. So, I mean, frequency was a part of the equation, but beyond that, just, you know, it was pretty much the same every single time. And, you know, I wanted something with a little more variety, a little more adventure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. And is she an abuse survivor or an assault survivor,

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

something to that effect? She was. She had never shared it with anyone, and it was very emotional for both of us, obviously. And so. And I encouraged her to, you know, reach out potentially and talk to someone about that, but she didn't feel like she was at a point where she was ready to do that yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so let me say this. I don't think you're a bad guy. I don't think you're crazy. Okay?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep. And I. I don't think she's a bad person. I don't think she's crazy either. I guess. I guess backing out of this thing because. Because what happens really, really quickly, these kind of conversations is they get about, I need you to be a certain way, or I need you to do these things. Right. It gets really granular really fast. We never do this particular act, or we never try this particular position, or you never do these two or three things, and that ends up dominating the conversation. Backing out of this thing all the way and asking questions about what's the context with which you want to have adventure, have play, have excitement, have. Get your heart rate up. Right. And to what degree is she willing to say, okay, here's the world that must be true for that to happen versus that will never happen. I don't. I'm not. I'm not willing to invest in you in that way. I'm not willing to invest in us in that way. This conversation is over.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right? Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So paint me a picture of what that looks like, because what I hear often is Our lives are super busy, and our lives are super busy. We've got tons of stuff going on, and things get really routine. And the I over dramatize it when I say people just start to feel dead in their own skin. And often the bedroom is the last place for that, where like, let's try to reclaim all of that aliveness right there. And somebody else says, hey, I'm at the end of the day and I have to choose between that and sleep. And sleep's going to win every time. And so what does it look like to build a world where we prioritize us first, play first, context first, and then suddenly, dude, I would love to help around the house. I would love to give you margin in space. I know I'm tired over here too. But if that helps you have some freedom and some space to then begin to build adventure.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or begin to go see a counselor to deal with some past traumas. Like, you see what I'm saying? You build a context where this thing can actually happen.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that possible? Or do you feel like that door is shut?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

No.

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Well, I think it's a combination because through our conversation that we had, she communicated to me some things. Basically, I basically was the only one that ever initiated anything. And she basically said, you know, that gives me anxiety because if I, you know, not interested at that time, then you're upset about it and that' sort of thing. And so she basically said, like, I just. It makes me anxious when you initiate. I said, okay, I'm willing to step back from that. But you haven't initiated in a really long time. So if I step away from that, then I'm worried that nothing's ever going to happen. And so she said, well, I can. I can take on that, you know, and be willing to do that. And so that became. We kind of switched roles in that, honestly. And I was trying to respect what, you know, she wanted to do there. And that's had some real positive things that have come from that over the last few months. But then there were some other things that I communicated that I had interest in. An example would be, like, I was interested in her wearing lingerie. She said, no, I'm not willing to do that. And so there were certain things that she was like, drew a very clear line on. And so it's been a combination, and I think we've had some really positive direction with the changes that we've made. So I'm really more focused on, like, I'm not trying to change her or. Or have her do things that she's not comfortable doing. I'm trying to figure out what to do with my desire when I. When it's not going to happen, if that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure, 100%. So let's, let's address this. And I just looked this up to make sure I was right on it. I think I talked about this on another episode recently that hasn't come out yet. But researchers have noted two different types of desire. One is, they call it spontaneous desire, which is the nerd word. Which is basically, I'm being ridiculous here. But you can walk through your bathroom and see an old bra in the trash and be like, oh, I would right now. That's what it takes for you.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or you can be driving home and have a thought pop into your head about one time and be like, I'm ready to rock and roll right now.

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, if she was in the car, I'd pull the car over.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that spontaneous desire is what Hollywood has sold us for our whole lives. That that means things are good. That's the way it should be. And if one or both of you don't have spontaneous desire, what it means is your relationship has, quote unquote, run its course. And that's nonsense because there's another type of desire which is responsive desire. It's slow and it builds.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is. Y' all are watching a TV show and y' all are holding hands and your hand lands on her leg and you don't move it and she doesn't move it. Spot. Responsive desire is. I don't feel like doing it right this second, but I know when we get into it, I'm going to be glad that we're here.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And both of those are valid. There's not one better than the other. They're both fantastic. It's just they're different. And so most of the time somebody walks around either thinking they're broken or their spouse or partner's broken instead of saying no, it's just different.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

An F250 is never going to be as fast off the line as a Maserati is. That doesn't mean it's a broken car. It's just different. That's awesome. Great. Cool. That just needs a slower ramp up time before it hits top speed.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The, the. When somebody says you make me anxious or your approach makes me anxious, my concern there is, is just ending. That is a recipe for the anxiety to magnify itself. Or another way to say that that's less nerdy is you have to go through that anxiety. So I would be interested in knowing what is it about you, your approach that makes her feel anxious and shut down?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In exploring, are there ways I can. Are there text messages I can send you? Are there phone calls I can make? Are there like one researcher calls it chore play? Are there piles of folded clothes that are put away that send you the message I'm in? Right.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And instead of saying, oh, I get anxious about this, let's just not never do that again. Because by the way, her, her, the pressure for her to always come up with the plan, come up with the idea, come up with initiation, that will become a burden and anxiety ridden over time too.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So circling back and asking with, not with any accusation, just with curiosity, not judgment, hey, what is it about my approach? What is it when I look at you and say, I want to be with you? What is it about that that sets your body's alarms off?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because that's the point that we need to heal.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then there are things like, what is it about. I always want to get to the thing beneath the thing. Okay. So I want you to wear a lingerie. Never going to happen. Okay. Instead of just throwing my hands up and going, asking that next question. I'm curious. Tell me about that. And it might be I'm uncomfortable in my own body. I don't think I look sexy, so I don't want to put that stuff on. It might be. I feel objectified when I do that. It might be in her case, this is an old past thing that happened one time and it's lodged in there and it will shut down the whole night. Like, I want to get to the thing beneath the thing. And so if somebody's like, hey, I want to try because, because it works in, in. It works in the other way too.

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is it about this thing? I don't understand it. I feel uncomfortable in lingerie. What is it about me and lingerie that you would find compelling? Confined. Awesome. Tell me about that.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you being able to say it feels different, it feels naughty, it feels like something that doesn't. It feels special. Like whatever the thing or you look hot like, like being able to, to get to the thing beneath the thing is often where that connection is found.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The concerns I have are when people say shut down. Absolutely not. And there will come. There will become specific acts or things like, I'm not doing that. Okay, cool. There does come a point when you say, I'm going to stop beating my head against the wall. I'll always be interested in. I'll always desire. And that that door is shut because I'm going to respect that person, and then I'm going to go move on with my life. Right. But I love to ask the curiosity questions. Go ahead.

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Yeah. Do you have suggestions as far as

[Dr. John DeLoney]

what to do

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

with the. What. What can I do? If anything? Maybe there's nothing. But when I know that that type of desire is just probably not going to happen, how do I, I guess, come to a place of peace with that to just say, okay, I just have to accept that that's just not going to be part of this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know if. If making peace with it is really the objective out of the gate. I think the objective is I'm going to stop imaginary conversations before they take off. I'm going to stop the stories I make up. Yeah, right. About why she won't. And I would do anything she ever asked me to do, and she never has. And then 17 years, and suddenly, man, your body's at war.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you have an anxious woman who's got a traumatic history, who's coming out of the. Out of the shower nervously, and you are. She's met with a full energy of a whole ecosystem of stories you've made up.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So some of that is. I'm just going to stop the story before it happens. I'm going to stop meditating on what she won't do and also make peace with, I guess, like, you're not crazy for wanting your wife to be in lingerie, dude. That makes you a normal human.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And also, not landing on this is forever. This will always be this way. Partridge in a pear tree.

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if there's not full lingerie, is there a pajama set that she likes? Is there a. Is there a place we can meet in the middle here?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And is there a way, if you ask, hey, how. How do you feel most beautiful when we're together? How do you feel most celebrated when we're together? And let her answer some of those questions for you. And what she's given you is a. Is a road map. I'll send you the Questions for Humans intimacy deck. Okay?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That'll be my gift to you. And it's a magic power those have, which is the card Ask the question, not me.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Another funny thing. There's a whole backstory to this, something that countless couples have told me they've used, and it's been really successful. I call it the John Deloney erotic envelope system. Have you heard me talk about that?

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

I think so. Yeah, I think I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it's. It's me. It's me just making a joke. But it's get an envelope and you put in five things you would like to try. And she puts in five things she would like to try. And y' all commit to either A, given at the old college try or B, being curious about what is it about this thing. And often the conversation around those cards is equally as intimate as the actual doing of the thing on the card.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thanks for the call, brother. Appreciate it. And man, she wants to have a call. I'd love to talk to her. If y' all ever want to call in together, that'd be awesome too. We'll be right back. For years I thought sleep was for losers. So I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing and ignoring sleep. And of course that type of wisdom is nonsense. It's not wise at all. I started focusing on my sleep and that's one of the main reasons why I started sleeping on a Helix mattress. Deep sleep is when your brain resets and when your body actually does the work to clear all the junk out so it can be ready to roll the next day. And since I've started sleeping on Helix mattress, my sleep has been transformed. I've had mine for a couple of years now and I track my sleep and I've seen the difference in my deep sleep, in my REM sleep. It's made a huge difference. And Helix can make a difference for you too. I want you to get online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes and they're going to match you with the mattress that is just right for how you actually sleep. It will ship straight to your door and you get 120 night sleep trial. It's backed by a limited lifetime warranty. Go to helixsleep.com deloney and get 20% off site wide during their spring savings event. That's Helix H L I x helix sleep.com Deloney for 20% off. And be sure to tell them you heard about their incredible mattresses right here on the Dr. John DeLoney show with Helix. Better sleep starts right now. Every day on my show I'm talking about boun Listen, boundaries are not about being mean. They're not about cutting everybody off in your life. They're about keeping you and those you love safe. But most of us don't think at all about our digital boundaries, especially when it comes to sharing our data online. In fact, most of us don't even know we're sharing it. We're not sharing it. It's being taken without our permission and sold behind our backs. And this is why I use and recommend Delete me. If somebody can Google your home address, your phone number, all of your relatives, contact information, where your kids go to school, pictures of you that' not just quote unquote part of modern life. It's your personal information being bought and sold without your permission. Listen, you'd never let strangers walk through your home and start flipping through your photo albums and start reading your mail. But that's what happens online. Data brokers buy and sell your personal information to people you don't want having it. That's their whole business model. Delete me goes to those sites, removes your information and checks month after month to make sure it's gone. They handle it, saving you lots of time and a ton of hassles. If you're serious about protecting your digital boundaries, check out Delete me. Go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney For 20 off an annual plan, that's join J O I N joinedeleteme.com DeLoney We've got a couple on the line from Los Angeles, California. Let me bring on Ashley first. Hey, Ashley.

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Hey, Dr. John. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing all right. Let me bring on Joe. Hey, Joe. Hi, Dr. John. Excellent, man. I'm glad y'. All. I'm glad y' all are here today. Are y' all in the same house right now or y' all at different places?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

We're in different places.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, cool. So who wrote into the show?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

I did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You did? All right, so do you want to go first?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. All right, let it rip. What's going on?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Okay, so I called regarding. I called asking how to rebuild trust in our relationship. We've been together for about six months. One little thing that's going on is I'm currently pregnant. I'm about 17 weeks pregnant.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One little thing, huh?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Yeah, one little thing. So we'll throw that in at the beginning, but how do we build trust? After I betrayed Joe by deleting Instagram messages after we had promised to be open, honest, truthful about specific communication with specific people, I deleted the messages and did not tell him about them. And there's. There's a little bit more backstory there, which I'm sure Joe would. Would get into, but that's kind of the short.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So y' all have been together just for a minute, and it sounds like y' all got. You got pregnant really early. And are y'. All. Are y' all trying to stay together romantically?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And already in this short period of time, y' all made some agreements on how we're going to communicate with people from our past, I'm assuming.

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Yeah. And I'll let. I'll let Joe step into it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Joe. What? What? Where do you come in?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yeah. So we both value trust more than anything, you know, during our first few months of dating. And we both made that clear. And I made that that trust was the most important thing to me, and it was a deal breaker because rebuilding trust is very difficult. And the rebuilding process can even cause more damage, especially if you go through a conflict resolution, which we tried. And there were specific promises where Ashley reaffirmed. You know, I'm going to be honest, transparent, and open moving forward. I'm going to show you through my actions. And we made a specific promise about these two specific people. One girl who was communicating with me from the past, and then guy was communicating with her. And we said, we'll just let each other know if they ever reach out. And instead of fulfilling, like, that promise, which was in connection with conflict resolution, she did the exact opposite. And when I even asked her about it, or I told her, oh, I received a text, she didn't tell me anything and just kept deleting him. And then she only came clean. She lied. When I specifically asked that you deleted anything, you know, message you. It was just, no, no, no. But then only came clean and told the truth when I'm. Like when I mentioned Instagram data. So when she finally came clean, it wasn't even voluntary. It was. I had to, like, kind of have documents or. Yeah, for lack of a better word, evidence.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So tell me about your history with infidelity, with people cheating on you.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yeah. So we both kind of bonded at the beginning, you know, on our first date, immediately. Because our exes both betrayed us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

And we're. Our parents are both divorced. And we both agreed that we didn't want or we both valued that we didn't want our children to grow up in a divorced household.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

So based off our past experiences, and my. My ex, she kind of did the same things. There was a lot of trickle truthing or future faking, you know, saying, I'm gonna do all these things, but then it's just a repeat pattern, and that just caused so much damage. Yeah. And it was a lot of secrecy, you know, with the phone and social media apps.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So all of this is more complicated.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If y' all had just Met each other. Y' all were dating for six months. This happened. And you've got this value like that is a big neon sign for you.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And also, you have a lived experience multiple times. Right. It's a childhood you grew up in. This has happened to you personally. So your body's highly attuned. Its alarm system is. Is. Is got a hair trigger and a loud alarm on it. This would be a pretty easy. All right, let's go our separate ways. But y' all have this kid now,

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right? And I kind of. It was a deal breaker for me, because once there's no trust that. That's it. And then we made these specific promises to reinforce that. I got that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It happened. It happened, though.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yeah. And then once the stakes got higher, the secrecy got higher as well. So did the lies.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. And so that happened. Before we move further at all, the most important question I can ask you, Joe, is are you interested in rebuilding trust here?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

I am. Because I. I truly love her, and I want what's best. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I want you to stop using words like deal breaker. Okay. Because A, it's not true. It didn't break the deal, and B, it's a constant sort of Damocles over your relationship. I love you. I'm all in. We have a kid together. I see a future forever. But if this thing. And it makes it hard to operate in that world. Now, I'm not saying you don't hold people accountable, that you don't have standards, that you don't have responsibilities to each other. That's not what I'm saying at all. But it's. It's this idea that you're my person, and I'm going to do what I can to make this work. And when you violate that, either A, I'm gonna have the courage to say, okay, I'm out, or I'm going to have the courage to say, this broke my heart. This hurts. And especially you knew this one.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not like. It's not like she did something. She yelled at you or something and didn't know you come from a yelling household. Like, this one was a. Like a big time violation.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so this one hurts deep. And can you be honest about how you feel about it? Can you be honest about the stories you're making up about her? And are you willing to give her a path back?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yes, I'm willing to give her a pat back. I think we should both go to

[Dr. John DeLoney]

couples counseling, and I'm a mental health guy. But what will that solve for you right now,

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

ways to rebuild trust, I'm

[Dr. John DeLoney]

going to give them to you. And you sound like somebody who over intellectualizes some of these challenges. You have big words, you've got special words, you've got Instagram. You were like, I don't want to over intellectualize this. Six months in, y' all already are on your third relationship. The first one is you meet, you like each other, you're attracted to each other. Y', all, y' all hook up. The second new relationship is, oh, God, we're going to be parents. And the third one is you, she blew it up. And we're going to rebuild a third one. And by the way, this will be the. If y' all want to have a lasting, awesome, amazing marriage, which is my hope for both of you, y' all will be rebuilding your marriage over and over and over again, and that becomes part of the fun and part of the adventure. But over intellectualizing it and over therapizing it isn't super helpful right now. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yeah, and I like it sounds great, all in all in theory, but I mean, you can only take punch after punch, and if there's no actual change, that's. That's what I'm concerned about, 100 million percent.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But a, you have to put a path back, and then you have to open your hands and let her try to walk that path. And the sucky part of this for you, brother, is I'm going to put a path down, which if I, if. If you were my buddy and we were having nachos and you're like, what should I say? I would say we're both going to get flip phones, we're going to delete Instagram off our phones, and we're going to be honest about, like, sharing data with each other, because for you, this is such a core pain point that you're going to have to go to. You're going to have to teach your nervous system over time that she's safe. And Ashley gets to be a grown woman and say, I do or do not want to walk that path.

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Yeah. I've told him repeatedly that I'm. I'm all in. Committed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Committed to doing whatever it takes to rebuild. I've suggested deleting, deactivating the social media. And one thing that I was kind of surprised at, his response to me saying that was that to him, it seems like, well, that's just removing, like, that's like walking away from the problem almost, I think was something to the effect of what he had said, that wasn't his words verbatim, so it almost seemed like he wanted, wanted me to like be tested and to like prove that I could do the things that I've said I would do to show him if someone had reached out, if it happened, when I would rather just remove the, the underlying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Cause altogether.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, Joe, I'm hearing her say, I'll walk whatever path this guy puts in front of me. I love him. We're going to be co parents for the rest of our lives. And so let's make this thing work romantically. You say you love her. What are this is punch after punch after punch. You keep referring to

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

unfulfilled promises. And then it just wasn't with one guy. Then there were deleted messages with another guy, and then maybe even a third.

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

So

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

if it just Promises just keep getting broken and I hear the same thing over and over, but then there's no actual action that aligns with those promises. It just feels like I just don't know what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so I'll, I'll cut through it and give it, give it to you. You give her a seven day path back to trust. For seven days I'm gonna ask this of you. Are you in? And then she gets to say, I'm in. And when you give her that path, you're going to be committed to not bringing up old stuff and putting ace aces in your pocket so you can play them at any time you feel less than small or otherwise uncomfortable. And if she walks the path, then after seven days, y' all are going to have a breakfast already on the calendar. And you're going to go out and you're going to talk about, here's how I feel. How do you feel? Here's some stories I made up this week. Here's some stories she made up this week. And then we're going to create a new path together for the next seven days or the next 14 days. And then you're going to have to have the courage to have your or what statement. I'll tell you that. It sounds, I, I mean it sounds cool. I guess that's not the right word, but it sounds like tough, cool, noble, whatever word you want to throw in there that she needs to actually keep all the alcohol in the house and just prove she won't drink it. But if she's telling you right now it's best to not have alcohol in the house, I would honor that and say, oh, that's how much she loves me. That's how Hard. She's trying. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yeah. And then if, if it's. I mean, Instagram won't do these social media apps won't be deleted for lives. But then once.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why. Is it that important to you? Is it. Is that more important than your marriage? And then being good co parents together, creating a new life together,

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

our relationship and our baby boys, the most important.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so let's don't say things like, this isn't going to be this way forever. That's like your house is burned down. And you're like, well, no house can ever be as good as the old house. We can't rebuild something new that's ever going to be. And you're already limiting the possibility of what could be. And I'll be honest, you're probably right. And so we will get to a day, potentially when you say, okay, I'm like, I want to tell you that I love you. And you've been walking this path and I'm recognizing that I feel safe with you. I feel trust with you. And I'm going to have to put my last foot back in the boat and risk again. Risk you hurting me again. And so for the next three months, I want all the codes to your social media stuff. If you get that back on your phone. And she might say, dude, I feel so free. I don't want any of this nonsense on my phone anymore. But she might say, okay, cool, I'm back, or have to have it for work or whatever. And we're going to baby step our way through that one. Tell me where that's hard. No, all of it's hard. Tell me where that doesn't ring true.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Oh, it absolutely rings true. And I think that that could definitely be a great way to rebuild trust. It's. I mean, with the Instagram, there's this high risk or concern of secrecy. But then on the flip side, it's also a way that we kind of laugh because we share things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so maybe part of the creativity here is coming up with new ways to share things that are in real life, that are in person, that are if. If a couple's laughter and joy is reduced to memes of animals falling off tree limbs or whatever? Like, I would say, that's a pretty thin relationship.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

I agree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so what does it look like to be creative and say, okay, this connectivity, this point of connection we used to have, we're. We're removing it right now? It's the same conversation with coup. Couples used to drink together. They used to Always go to happy hour together every Friday. And then one of them has a problem with alcohol. It's like, okay, well that thing's over now. But that doesn't mean we don't really work hard. Okay, now we're gonna go, we're gonna take dance lessons. Now we're gonna go learn to fish together some or we're gonna go bowling or something ridiculous. But now the creativity, the fun, the play, the excitement is let's find new stuff to, to connect over. I, I, I, I just hear an air of pessimism over you. And I either want you to a say the air is, is too poisonous, I'm never going to trust it again, or I want you to crack the door for six months into someone do you barely know that suddenly you're connected to for life because y' all are making a human together. I'm going to choose, and this is a hard daily choice. I'm going to choose to imagine this thing works out better than either of us could have ever dreamed. I'm going to choose to put in the work. And that means not relying on feelings. Feelings are a great data point, but they're not a, they're not a good GPS system. I'm going to put in the work so that this kid never lives in the mess that I lived in. And some of that is reverse engineering and saying, what do we want our house to feel like when we walk in the door? How can I love you today? Do we have a regularly scheduled time when we meet and, and dream about what we want our life to look like? And then we're honest about doing the, doing those action steps, moving. But the truth is she hurt you really bad and sounds like she said she's sorry and she's willing to walk whatever path you put in front of her. And so really the ball's in your court. I'm going to send you two things. Okay. I'm going to send you a year of the Together app. Okay. Y' all aren't married yet, but y' all are headed that way. I'm going to send it to you. Okay?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's a, it's a daily thing that y' all can do together that will give y' all a nudge. It's a microhabit for rebuilding a relationship.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay?

[Caller 2's Partner (Ashley)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The second thing is I'm gonna send you Joe Building a non anxious Life. I want you all to read that together. Because both of you have, you're trying to paint a picture and both of the you're Trying to put a puzzle together, I guess, is a better way to say it. And both of y', all, the. The picture on the box for both of you, that is your marriage that y' all grew up with. It's a bad picture. And so y' all trying to put a puzzle together when really you don't have the picture of what y' all are trying to solve is. And so this book will give y' all a new picture for what y' all could build together. So it's gonna sound. It's gonna sound nuts. Joe and Ashley, this might be the greatest thing that ever happened to you if y' all choose to wipe the deck, build something stronger, make commitments, and actually lean into those commitments. And Joe, if she has a place to be honest and say so. And so reached out, and you're going to exhale, and it won't be, well, what did you do? It won't be accusatory. It will be. Thank you for telling me that. If we can build that thing together, man, y' all are off to the races. Thanks for the call, guys. Y' all don't know this, but this particular call will help millions of people because y' all the courage to call in here. How do we rebuild this thing? Right as it got off the right as the train left the station, it already got derailed. How do we rebuild it? This the path. And y' all may end up in couples therapy. Great. But this isn't a we need to race to therapy right now to therapize stuff. This is. We're going to start putting in the work right now. Today's day one on marriage number on relationship number three. I'll be with you any. Every step of the way. If you want to call back in as y' all keep going down the road here, y' all gonna have several new relationships over the next year. As you're. As the kid grows, as everything changes, as the kid's born, change after change after change. So hold everything really loosely. I'm grateful for your call. We come back, a man asks how to support his partner who has an eating disorder without causing her any harm. Most of the stuff on supplement shelves at your local grocery store is garbage. They're shiny labels with zero substance. I've never played that game. I'm not playing that game now. And neither is Thorne. I've been taking Thorn supplements for years, way before I had a show. Because when it comes to my mind, in my body, I don't mess around. I use Thorn. I use them for sleep. For performance and for keeping my brain and my body on track. Whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, or a dad just trying to show up for his family, you deserve the best. And when it comes to supplements, I want proof, not junk and hype. Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing. Not Thorn. They make every product with evidence, not spin. At their world class facility In South Carolina, 35% of their employees work in quality control. And Thorne rejects 15% of raw materials. Because good enough isn't good enough for Thorne. It's gotta be excellent. That's why pro athletes, Olympic teams, and more than 60,000 doctors trust Thorne. And that's why I trust them too. Stop guessing what's going into your body and take what it actually needs and nothing that it doesn't. Go to thorne.com, the letter U/Deloney and get 25 off your entire order. When you create an account that's T, H O r, n e thorne.com/the letter u slash Deloney. Go get started being healthy. All right, H town, Houston, Texas. Let's talk to Connor. What's up, Connor?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

I'm good. How are you? Dr. John, thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. What's up, brother?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

So my question is, how can I support my girlfriend with her eating disorder? And how can I navigate some of the negative self talk and, and behavior that she shows?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man. How old are you?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

21.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old is she?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

19.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long have you all been together?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Not very long now. A little, you know, a month and a half or so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so this is very, very, very new. Okay, so tell me how it's shown up.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Well, she opened up to me about it pretty early on and I've. I kind of like there were some earlier signs of it happening. When I like would ask if she wanted any food, she would heavily decline. But she opened up to me about it and since then, you know, it's shown up. Like I've asked if she wants to go to dinner or if she wants any food at all and she's just declined. And it has. There have been instances where she's been okay eating, but you know, the more I learn about it, the scarier it gets.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it is. I haven't looked in the last year, but it's if not the most right up at the top. But I think it's still the most lethal mental health disorder there is is disordered eating. Okay.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's super, super serious. So I guess the couple of things I Would tell you, especially at this stage in your relationship, is a. You cannot at any point ever be her therapist or her physician, for that matter. And trying to. What is that? That means she has to have a pretty significant game plan. And a group of professionals around here. This is that serious.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

She does.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Where she is actively seeking healing and support and care. And you, as her boyfriend, are going to remain in that role as boyfriend, not pseudo parent. Not pseudo. Did you eat anything today? Are you hungry? Do you need to. Have you been Right. Those kind of questions? So that puts you in a position where you feel pretty powerless. And so asking things like, how can I love you today?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Instead of, why aren't you eating?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Asking her, what does today look like?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Gotcha.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you. Y' all are so. Y' all are so young and y'.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y' all are so new. Y' all probably aren't at the I love you yet. So.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Asking her, hey, what do you want today to look like? I'd love to hang out. What do you want tonight to look like?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And here's the. A third thing. You can't be responsible for her thoughts and her actions. Those are hers. Okay. And so by trying to put her in situations where she's gonna do a thing that she might not otherwise want to do or feel comfortable doing is just a recipe for this thing to just run out of gas real, real fast.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

And one of the. One of the questions that I have is like, you know, when she. When she told me about it at first, it's such a foreign. It was such a foreign thing to me at the time. I kind of just froze up. And it took a while for me to process it. And still, when some of those. The. You know, the things that she says to herself in front of me, when that happens, sometimes it can be difficult to know what to say because I know it's like a. It's an area where I have to tread lightly. Like. Like you were saying I shouldn't be her therapist. So I have trouble picking out what exactly to say to support her in that moment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if. If you can learn this At 21, you win life. I was, like, in my late 30s where I figured this out. You ready? Ask her.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be honest about. This is new to me. And when I get things that are new, I take a couple days to process it. And so I don't ever want you to think my silence means I don't care. It just means I want to show up the best possible way. And Right now, I don't have a great response for you and maybe even be honest and say I'm. My bent is to try to fix stuff, and that's not my role here. So when you say, oh my gosh, I look fat in this, when you say, oh my gosh, I feel disgusting, what are some things that are helpful for me to respond with? Okay. Okay. Because here's the. Here, here's the deviance of the. The challenges she has. Okay. And I'll even call this one an illness. Like the, the. The. The disorder that she has is if she says, I feel disgusting or I look disgusting, and you say, no, you don't. You're not solving that problem for her. What you're doing is you're either a further confirming that she's crazy or you're distancing yourself by. She doesn't trust you.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so instead of play. I'm not going to play that game at all. I'm going to ask on the front end, what are some things I can say?

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's very natural for you as a young man especially, but most men do this is to try to fix the pain that somebody you care about is experiencing.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Definitely how I kind of process things, I think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's a. That's a noble impulse. The problem is most of us try to fix it in ways that we like things to be fixed.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

I need to ask her instead of

[Dr. John DeLoney]

asking, how can I best care for you right now? Because she's. She. Because you can't fix it.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is an unfixable thing.

[Caller 1 (Nathan)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that takes some vulnerability. That take. You probably didn't have that modeled for you. Most men didn't.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Definitely not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so it. It will feel. You'll feel like a simp. You'll feel like you're weak. You'll feel like. And what. What you're giving her is an anchor point. I'm so secure in myself that I am willing to ask you how can I best show up for you right now? And I'll do that thing.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And all of us have this responsibility, whether we're romantically involved or not is if I see something that I'm uncomfortable with, I'll sound every alarm. I'm willing to risk our relationship together for your safety. Or as I used to tell my students, and I've told a few of my friends, I would rather you be alive in five years and hate me still than me keep the peace right now and you not be here in five years.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

And so if things were to take a turn for the worse in her situation, what does that look like? You know, putting, like, what does that look like? Putting our relationship on the line to, to get her better.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like what?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Exactly. Like what steps,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

bro. I've called 91 1. I've called adult friends, parents before. I've called therapists. When I know somebody's seeing a therapist, I've called them and the therapist can't even confirm that they're seeing that person. But they can take one, one way information. Right? I'll call everybody. I don't care.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I, I, I, I, I just have, I've not made that call before and I've got to live with that for the rest of my life.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So that, and I'm not going to be, I'm never gonna lie about it. I'm not gonna go behind people's back. I'm gonna let somebody know. You're reaching a point of concern for me, especially when you're dealing with something that is this lethal.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so maybe part of it is you saying, what if I ever get to a point when I'm super worried about you, who would you prefer me to call?

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And she might say, nobody. How dare you. Whenever. And you can say in all secure, like in your, like, I care about you so much that I just want to have a game plan in case that care. My, my concerns get real big. I, Dude, I, I have a no holds barred, barred approach to this.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

It's just scary to deal with.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Yeah, I don't know when, I mean, you know, I, our relationship started in the midst of her situation and you know, when she tells me about the, the weight that she's lost, it's, it's terrifying.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's scary. It's very scary. And the path forward is, is, is, it's, it's, man, it's grueling because if you're struggling with alcohol, you can, you can not be around alcohol. But food is different, man. You got to make peace with it. And it's a hard road to navigate.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, I, I can name several adults in great relationships who've got kids who are successful, all that stuff, who wrestled with this stuff, especially when they were young. So it's not a, it's not a forever, it's not, it's not an end of time situation, but especially young, especially in late teen. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a multiple alarm fire.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

And do you have any advice on where I could go to just to gain a better understanding of, like, I guess, the psychology behind it just so I can. I don't know, because I still feel like, you know, I've. I've try to learn as much as I can, but it's still just, like. It still does just seem so foreign and, like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I think trying to understand it intellectually helps a bit if she. I mean, y' all are still together. Y' all are so new. Right? Like. Like, let me put it this way. I went to grad school. I learned all about it, but I didn't learn about it until I sat with more college students and young adults than I can even count.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so it's a. It's a thing that takes. You can learn about it, but the wisdom of sitting with somebody and caring for somebody who's going through this, man, that's. That's. That's a. That's not something you can just read in a book.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The. The. Maybe there will come a day. I think being together for a month and a half is too soon, but there may come a day when you've Go to her counselor with her and y' all talk about strategies together and how I can best care for her.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The. The challenge is you see her.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the challenge is who she sees in the mirror is not what you see.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

It's hard to wrap my head around.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. It is. And so I would suggest spending less energy trying to wrap your head around it.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And making peace with this is an is right now.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Right, Right.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I will. I will say this, brother. The fact that you want to not jump in and try to fix this thing, but you want to try to be a good partner here, that's really amazing.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm proud of you for that.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you being willing to ask for coaching this early on. Amazing, brother. Amazing.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Thank you very much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, this is. That's what you will be, a very wise 35 and 40 year old. Because you don't have a fear about saying, all right, I found myself over my head with Phil. Whatever it is, I want to get some wisdom before I just plow forward. That's awesome, brother.

[Caller 3 (Connor)]

Try to seek that out when I can.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the. That's. I mean, that. That, to me, is the definition of wisdom. Some people think wisdom is, I gotta have all the answers.

[Caller 2 (Joe)]

No, no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need to make sure I have the ability to go find the information and the humility encouraged to go seek it with all, all my might. That's you, brother. So I'm proud of you. Care for her well, but ask her what that looks like. And by the way, her answers will morph and change over time as she seeks additional care and hopefully is on a journey to recovery. That's awesome. It will continue to shape shift and continue to change. And so you showing back up to the table time and time again and asking what does care for you look like now? How does showing up for you look like right now? What would you like me to say in these kind of moments? Let me just hold your hand and stay quiet. I know you feel an insane amount of pressure. If I say, hey, let's go get dinner, I know that means something different to you. What I'm saying when I say that is I just want to hang out with you. So give me some insights on some, some questions I could ask. Let's get four or five things that we know we like to do together that don't involve going to dinner. Let's get those on the table and we'll take some of that pressure off. So that's the path forward, brother. I'm proud of you, man. Thanks for the call. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our mental health, our emotional health, and our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety and they're one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I struggled for years because of financial stress. Listen, therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about financial advice, but it can help you build healthier ways of coping and give you strategies to communicate about money without more fighting. To do all of this, check out my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the United States. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no additional cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney all right, something cool happened. Kelly, what is it?

[Kelly]

All right, so this is from listener Levi in Lynchburg, Virginia, and he writes we're. I was at the Valentine's weekend Money and marriage in 2025. I told everyone how I betrayed my family, but specifically my wife by having an affair. I struggled with trying to figure out how to be a good man for her and for our son. You and the other personalities and everyone else at the getaway were very, very supportive and encouraged me to just keep doing the next right thing. As of today, my 30th birthday, I'm 607 days sober. And believe you and Rachel and everyone else had a part in the continued healing of our family. From the deepest part of my heart and on behalf of my family, thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's awesome. Yeah. That. We just finished the. We. I'm going through puberty here. We just finished the Valentine's 2026 money marriage weekend, and it was. This is the best one by a mile. It was awesome. But, man, it's so cool to see those stories and hear everybody we got.

[Kelly]

So the cards that y' all do. The anonymous box, you know, with the anonymous questions.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We got so stinking many this year.

[Kelly]

Well, we get them from. So after Haley uses them, you know, one of the ladies that writes with you, and then she sends them over to us, and then we divvy up which ones we're gonna use and not. And then there's always a couple that Mia puts on top. She's like, I don't know what to do with these. So she hands them to me, and one of them was somebody that just said, we are having amazing sex this week. Yeah. So much amazing sex this weekend. Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, yeah, we. We throw a. The. The last event is cheesy on per. Like, over the top, cheesy prom and with balloon arches, the whole nerdy thing. And we hire a dj, and it's just a big old dance, and there are lots of married hands on married butts. Lots. It's like, man, there's lots of hands on butts to that Bon Jovi song. It's pretty awesome. Pretty great. But. And I want to say this at the end of the day, dude, I run my mouth on a podcast, and you're the ones out there actually doing the work and putting in the work to stay sober. To be honest, to tell the truth. And I just need you all to hear me say, I'm so proud of you. To every one of you who is grinding your way towards a better life. Amazing. Love, you guys.