My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show: Episode Summary

Title: My Wife Brags to Friends About Her Past Sex Life
Host: Ramsey Network’s Dr. John DeLoney
Release Date: March 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, Dr. John DeLoney addresses two primary caller concerns: Jesse's discomfort with his wife discussing her past sexual experiences with coworkers and Marie's struggle to support her alcoholic best friend while maintaining healthy boundaries. Through empathetic dialogue and practical advice, Dr. DeLoney provides listeners with insights into managing relationship challenges and supporting loved ones facing addiction.

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Caller 1: Jesse from Auburn, Alabama

Issue:
Jesse, who has been married for 20 years, contacts Dr. DeLoney after discovering his wife has been openly discussing her past romantic relationships with coworkers. He feels hurt and insecure about her glorifying her "glory days" in college, especially since he values having waited to engage in sexual activity until marriage.

Key Points & Discussions:

1. Jesse’s Discovery and Feelings:

   • Transcript Excerpt [00:05-00:22]:

     Jesse: "I've recently stumbled across some messages where my wife has been talking to some co workers of hers and how she had lots of love in college... And they don't need to be talking about that stuff."

   • Emotional Impact: Jesse expresses feeling deeply hurt and betrayed, struggling with insecurity as he believed he had put her past behind them.

2. Dr. DeLoney’s Initial Response:

   • Transcript Excerpt [02:45]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "So I hear the hurt in your voice. Okay, let me ask you a few questions..."

   • Empathy and Validation: Dr. DeLoney acknowledges Jesse’s pain, creating a supportive environment for Jesse to explore his feelings.

3. Understanding the Root Cause:

   • Dr. DeLoney identifies that Jesse's discomfort stems more from embarrassment and the perception that he is somehow "better" than his wife due to their differing values around sex before marriage.

4. Addressing Personal Insecurities:

   • Transcript Excerpt [12:25]:

     Jesse: "Yes, that is completely right."

   • Insight: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes that Jesse needs to reconcile his feelings of superiority and accept that his wife’s past does not diminish their current marital relationship.

5. Practical Advice:

   • Transcript Excerpt [14:18-14:56]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "Like, I would sit down with my wife and say, for 20 years I've walked around with a story that I'm somehow better than you..."

   • Communication Strategies: Encourages Jesse to engage in open, honest conversations with his wife using "I statements" to express his feelings without shaming her.

6. Conclusion on Jesse’s Issue:

   • Dr. DeLoney advises Jesse to let go of feelings of superiority and focus on rekindling mutual respect and understanding within his marriage. He suggests accepting her past as a part of who she is and ensuring that her sharing does not undermine his self-worth or their relationship.

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Caller 2: Marie from Los Angeles, California

Issue:
Marie seeks guidance on supporting her best friend, who recently confessed to being an alcoholic after years of secrecy. Marie struggles with maintaining boundaries while being her friend's main emotional support, especially as her friend insists on keeping her addiction a secret from others.

Key Points & Discussions:

1. Marie’s Situation:

   • Transcript Excerpt [22:22-24:35]:

     Marie: "About nine months ago, she confessed to me that she is an alcoholic... she literally asked me to just kind of keep this a secret from everyone..."

   • Emotional Toll: Marie feels drained by the cycle of supporting her friend through relapses and maintaining her secrecy.

2. Dr. DeLoney’s Analysis:

   • Transcript Excerpt [27:16-28:14]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "Number one, you've been super close... and you found out that they kept a huge secret from you for a long time, and you're really hurt by that."

   • Core Values: Highlights the importance of Marie's values, particularly honesty and integrity, which are being compromised by her friend's secrecy.

3. Setting Healthy Boundaries:

   • Transcript Excerpt [35:12-35:32]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "If you want help from me, of course I'm going to bring him along."

   • Actionable Steps: Advises Marie to clearly communicate her boundaries, emphasizing that she cannot support her friend without her committing to long-term sobriety and honesty.

4. Empowerment Through Boundaries:

   • Transcript Excerpt [37:14-38:48]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "You have permission to set strong boundaries."

   • Empowering Marie: Encourages Marie to prioritize her well-being over maintaining the friendship at the expense of her values and emotional health.

5. Implementing Boundaries:

   • Transcript Excerpt [39:21-40:49]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "I think if possible, is there an opportunity for you all to see each other in person soon."

   • Practical Recommendations: Suggests Marie arrange a hard conversation with her friend, involve other supportive individuals, and make tangible plans to support her friend while safeguarding her own mental health.

6. Conclusion on Marie’s Issue:

   • Dr. DeLoney underscores the importance of Marie recognizing her limits and enforcing boundaries to prevent burnout. He validates her struggle and provides a roadmap for confronting her friend's addiction in a way that honors both her values and her need for emotional protection.

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Caller 3: E’s Sleep Issues (Insufficient Sleep and Anxiety)

Issue:
E, a mother of three young children, experiences sudden insomnia triggered approximately a week and a half before Christmas. She wakes up at 3 AM unable to return to sleep, plagued by anxiety about daily responsibilities and fears of not meeting her family's needs.

Key Points & Discussions:

1. E’s Sleep Disturbance:

   • Transcript Excerpt [44:41-47:26]:

     E: "Starting in mid December... I suddenly just stopped sleeping... and I would find myself spending so much energy trying to actively stop my thoughts..."

   • Symptoms: Panic, racing thoughts about failing as a mother, and existential fears disrupting her sleep cycle.

2. Dr. DeLoney’s Intervention:

   • Transcript Excerpt [47:24-54:37]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "Number one, I like to start with the idea that my body's not broken... So if you have three young kids... your body would be failing you if it let you sleep all night."

   • Cognitive Reframing: Encourages E to view her body’s wakefulness as a signal for addressing underlying issues rather than perceiving herself as failing.

3. Practical Sleep Strategies:

   • Transcript Excerpt [53:10-54:37]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "After 10 minutes, get up. And I want you to smile... then write down all the stuff that's in your head."

   • Actionable Tips:
     • Get out of bed after being awake for 10 minutes.
     • Smile and change the environment to reduce anxiety.
     • Journal thoughts to externalize worries and identify actionable items.

4. Addressing Bedtime Battles:

   • Transcript Excerpt [55:23-57:36]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "Sometimes creating time at 9am in the morning to write down... can help."

   • Sleep Hygiene Advice: Suggests establishing a calming bedtime routine, limiting blue light exposure, and seeking professional help if sleep issues persist.

5. Support and Encouragement:

   • Transcript Excerpt [57:36-58:37]:

     Dr. John DeLoney: "You're not broken, Marie. You're not broken. You're doing good."

   • Positive Reinforcement: Reassures E of her strengths and the impact of her efforts, fostering a sense of control and capability.

6. Conclusion on E’s Issue:

   • Dr. DeLoney provides E with a structured approach to manage her insomnia, emphasizing the importance of recognizing physical signals, implementing cognitive-behavioral techniques, and seeking support to alleviate anxiety-induced sleep disturbances.

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways

• Self-Reflection and Acceptance: Both Jesse and Marie grappling with deeply ingrained personal values highlight the necessity of self-reflection and acceptance in overcoming relational and emotional challenges.

• Effective Communication: Dr. DeLoney underscores the importance of open, honest communication using "I statements" to express feelings without assigning blame, fostering understanding and connection between individuals.

• Boundary Setting: Marie’s situation illustrates the critical role of setting and maintaining healthy boundaries when supporting loved ones with addiction, ensuring personal well-being is not compromised.

• Practical Solutions for Mental Health Issues: Dr. DeLoney provides actionable strategies for managing anxiety and insomnia, demonstrating how targeted interventions can address specific mental health concerns.

• Empowerment Through Values Alignment: Aligning actions with personal values emerges as a central theme, empowering individuals to navigate complex emotional landscapes with integrity and resilience.

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Notable Quotes:

1. Jesse [00:05]:

   "I am just trying to figure out how to, how to handle this information."

2. Dr. John DeLoney [03:25]:

   "Whoever listening, I'm glad y'all are here. It's good to talk to you all."

3. Marie [22:19]:

   "I do anything I could from afar to be as best of a friend as I could."

4. Dr. John DeLoney [17:10]:

   "You're still right back where you were. So as much as you feel comfortable, it's put on the table."

5. Marie [36:14]:

   "I just don't know how to make my brain stop doing that."

6. Dr. John DeLoney [40:12]:

   "Your friend deserves to hear that from you directly."

7. Dr. John DeLoney [56:37]:

   "If you got 10 minutes, 5 minutes where you can just exhale and say, I'm really grateful for my husband."

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Final Thoughts:

This episode adeptly navigates complex emotional terrains, providing listeners with both empathy and practical solutions. Dr. DeLoney’s compassionate approach reinforces the importance of self-awareness, honest communication, and maintaining personal boundaries to foster healthy and fulfilling relationships. Whether dealing with personal insecurities, supporting a struggling friend, or managing mental health challenges, the episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice for listeners seeking guidance in their own lives.

Transcript

[Jesse]

I've recently stumbled across some messages where my wife has been talking to some co workers of hers and how she had lots of love in college, you know, kind of glorifying the glory days, so to speak. And they don't need to be talking about that stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, that's it right there.

[Jesse]

Uh huh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the issue. What in the world is going on? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so, so grateful that you're with us, wherever you happen to be. I hope you're doing well, hope life's going okay and I hope you are making good choices. I'm looking at a couple of folks behind the glass that don't make good.

[Nikki]

Choices and that's how we ended up on this show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know somewhere your careers took a tragic turn. But for everybody listening, I'm glad y'all are here. It's good to talk to you all and good to be with you if you want to be on the show. Real people going through real challenges, mental and emotional health, your relationships, whatever you got going on, dealing with grief, dealing with, I hope things, I wish things were going to be a certain way. They're not anymore. Whatever you got going on, I'll sit with you. 1-844-693-3291. You can leave a message and we'll holl the back girl at you or you can go to john deloney.com ask as. All right, let's go out to Auburn, Alabama and talk to Jesse. Hey Jesse, what's up?

[Jesse]

Hey Dr. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up man?

[Jesse]

Hey man, I'm just calling to see if you can help me work through something. I've been married for about 20 years and had what I thought was a great relationship and hopefully still do. What I've recently stumbled across some messages where my wife has been talking to some co workers of hers. They're, they're close friends, co workers. They do go on work retreats together and spend a little time together. And I have found about, I stumbled across some threads where she had been referencing some conversations she had with them about some previous partners she had had back in college and sort of talked about them kind of braggingly so, you know, kind of glorifying the glory days, so to speak. And, and it really, really hit me pretty hard. And I am just trying to figure out how to, how to handle this information.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I hear the hurt in your voice. Okay, let me ask you a few questions. So you say the glory days. Did your wife have multiple sexual partners back in College.

[Jesse]

That's another big difference between the two of us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on, hold on. Let me just answer that question. Did she have multiple partners back in college?

[Jesse]

She did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. She did. Yeah. And so y'all have been married 20 years, and you found some text messages that she was texting some co workers, male or female co workers.

[Jesse]

It's actually a group account, social media, that she has, where there's a little click of four of them. Okay, two. Two women and a man. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So when she was talking about the quote, unquote, glory days. Give me some examples.

[Jesse]

She would say things like, you know, in the context, she'd be talking about, you know, former relationships and how she had lots of love in college. That was a quote. And how the ages 19 to 23 were like heaven, or she hopes that's what heaven's like. And she would reference a few of the. Of the men and about the story that accompanied that. And when they talked about it at the last trip they were on, and the story about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So she went into detail about having sex with one of these dudes or a couple of these dudes, and what she liked about it, didn't like about it and all that.

[Jesse]

Fortunately, not. Not a lot of detail. But I'm just seeing the tip of the iceberg. I'm just seeing the reference on when this story was associated with this person or that person.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do you know it's the tip of the iceberg?

[Jesse]

Well, the. The. What I stumbled upon was her text threads where she referenced those stories where when they were together, you know, she talked about this guy. And that's when, you know, we were at this resort when I was telling y'all about this guy. And that's. Those are the threads that I'm seeing. So I'm now sort of discovering that she's talked about these former sexcapades that she's, you know, when they're together and then while they're chatting on the text thread, the social media text thread is, you know, when they're talking, you know, referencing more about it and making more jokes or. Or just whatever she's just talked about. It's just. I just can't believe she said these things. And it's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So is her past a surprise to you?

[Jesse]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Jesse]

That's kind of. My twofold question is obviously finding out that she is, you know, when I married her 20 years ago, you know, I put her past behind me, and it took me some time to get over that, but I. I did, and I don't want to Shame her about her past. You know, we. You know, we're moving forward, and I thought we were moving forward. And now she's got this new group of work friends she's been with the last six or eight years, people she didn't know in college, and they don't need to be talking about that stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, that's it right there, huh? That's the issue.

[Jesse]

Yeah. She's brought her past into our marriage and into our current life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You and her brought her past into your marriage? You signed up for it.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And I think in your mind, putting it behind us means we're going to pretend this never happened.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's. That is like. It's. That's not a reality. Like, it did happen. All of it happened. And now that she's had 20 years with somebody who's safe and stable and predictable, she can look back on some of the stuff that happened and be like, yeah, that was actually a good time. It was stupid, and we're young and dumb and whatever. But I'm just thinking of. I don't know, every time I get. With old friends, we tell old stories. But. And again, to your point, they were there, right? Did y'all have an agreement that. We're not talking about this. This is. I. I guess.

[Jesse]

No, no, we didn't have an agreement. When we. When we did get together, and I did find out her past, it was hard for me to accept.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, bro, that was 20 years ago, and I could. It's like you're finding out today. Where is that coming from?

[Jesse]

It's. It's been something that's been hard for me to deal with ever since.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why?

[Jesse]

I mean, I. I actually saved myself for marriage, and. And she didn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, okay, let's pause right there. You had a value, and you held on to that value. She did not have that value. She didn't hang on to that value. And then y'all found each other, and you decided to have new values together and then create a life together, which you have for two decades.

[Jesse]

That's right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So regardless of her past, you going back and trying to retroactively suggest that you're somehow better than she was. You. Like, it's an unfair standard because you all didn't agree on something that. Then you both went and one of you did. You. You agree. You kept with the agreement. One of you violated the agreement. I guess my question is for you. Like, these things happened. Y'all met, you found love. You decided to build A life together. And we'll, we'll get to the appropriate sharing or inappropriate sharing. We'll get there. But.

[Jesse]

I, I agree with everything you're saying and I, and I knew about these relationships going into it, and I, I've tried my best not to shame her, and I don't think I have. And I, and I have put all this in my past. Excuse me, but what's just bothering me so much now is that she's brought it up to these friends and not so much as in a, you know, these types of things happened and, you know, this is, you know, my life, but just in such a, in such a glorified way that she's just bragging about, you know, these things that she's done and sharing it with these individuals that weren't there. And it, it's just, it's just rocked me and I don't know how to handle it. I don't know if I'm just completely insecure and that's something I've got to deal with on my own, or should I talk to her more about it or should I just move on? I don't even know what, what to do next.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It sounds like there's multiple things going on here. I think that until you stop me at any time and tell me that I'm wrong, I'm out to lunch. But you say you, quote, unquote, put these in your past. You absolutely have not. They haunt you. Even calling them sexcapades. Like you've got a picture and a story in your head of what happened. Do you know what happened back in college? Or is it all just rumor and conjecture and story.

[Jesse]

She told me what I believe to be a semi watered down version of a handful of people. I don't know a number and I don't know names. And I can't look these people up on social media. Things that I don't want to do and haven't tried. In, in the text thread that I found from her recently, I found out more information that. About these, about her past that I didn't know to that detail or level of interest.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you ever asked?

[Jesse]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so number one, you want to pretend this never happened and you've pretended that for 20 years.

[Jesse]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can say, I don't want to know a number, I don't want to know names I don't know, I don't want to know dates, I don't want to know. And I know people like that. Cool. But that's a choice you're making to not be invested. And when you find out a piece of that information to then say, well, I didn't even know that happened. Well, you never asked. Right. And, yes, I totally get, like, there are parts of her story that you want to remain private, but it sounds like. And again, tell me if I'm wrong, brother. It sounds like you're embarrassed that other people might find out that the woman you married had consensual sex with multiple people back in college.

[Jesse]

Yes, that is completely right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That's a tough pill to swallow, man.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Know how to handle it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So until you can move past this idea that you're better than her and you can move past this idea that somehow she is tainted and something's gross and wrong about her, you're always going to have shadows in your marriage, my brother.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You haven't made peace with this. And I don't say make peace like, wish it never happened. Right. I don't know anybody who wishes their partner had had a whole bunch of previous people before them. Right. I get that. But you're choosing to pick and choose parts of her that you deem acceptable, which tells her, hey, part of you is not welcome in this house. Part of your story is not welcome here. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to see about it. We're going to pretend it never happened, and we're going to go on and pretend with a charade that we have this family. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Jesse]

I hear you. I've never had anybody say it to me before. Then again, I've never really talked to anybody about this before.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, that's fair and I appreciate it. That's why I say, like, I. I'm. I can hear it on you, how bad the hurt is, but I don't know that it's hurt as much as you're embarrassed that somebody's going to find that. Find out that somebody else slept with your wife back in college 20 years ago.

[Jesse]

What am I supposed to do?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, I would sit down with my wife and say, for 20 years I've walked around with a story that I'm somehow better than you, and I'm not. And I'm so sorry that I put that on you.

[Jesse]

I didn't even think that I thought that until you're saying those words out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Loud, I know that's okay. And then the next level is, it makes me super uncomfortable for you to be out talking about these things from your past as though they were wonderful and exciting and great. Makes Me feel less than makes me feel small. That the last 20 years weren't as fun or exciting or whatever makes me feel less than.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know how much. I don't know how much of what you think she was telling them how great it was and all these fun sexcapades and. Or if she was just telling a story. Like one person says, oh, yeah, one time in college I did this. She's like, oh, God, one time in college I did this. And it may not be as sensational or wild as. As you are in your head or telling her yourself that it was. Maybe it actually was. Maybe it actually was.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But then all of this starts with I statements, I married you, knowing this about you. And I loved you. I still love you. And man, I've been walking around thinking I somehow was better than you because at 18, 19, and 20, I made different choices than you.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm uncomfortable when you roll out the laundry list to some people that I don't even know that. That are somewhat strangers to me because it makes me. I feel less than that somehow. I haven't been fun. I haven't been exciting. That your life, you have now wasn't as great as the wild, adventurous life you had when you were 20, 21, 22.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And she might look at you and say, you're right, dude. It's just been downhill for 20 years. I doubt it, though. She's probably going to say, this is the life I dreamed of and I love having doing life with you. And you knew this about me and. Yes, I got caught up with some friends, telling stories, blowing things out of proportion, exaggerating, you know, like. Oh, you know what I mean?

[Jesse]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And hopefully she would say, I realize that me talking about that impacts us, and I won't do that. Oh, that would be my hope. It sounds like the kind of woman she is. Am I wrong?

[Jesse]

She's a wonderful woman. I've always been insecure about this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's. There it is right there.

[Jesse]

I mean, I really thought I had put it behind me, though.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. I think. I think my guts a. May I get it? Your wife told some stuff that you thought weren't talking about.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I always caution people to be careful when they tell somebody else. You. They can't tell their story.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. But I think that I don't know how to move forward is you are finding out you're someone that you don't recognize because you thought you were in a different place. And that's where anytime I find myself, oh, I thought I was super in self control. Like I. I had great self control here. And something happens and I snap or I get mad or I get angry, whatever. I need to go say, dude, I'm so sorry. I thought I was in a different place. I'm not. And that's why I say, like. I think this is one of those moments where you go and say, I'm so sorry. For 20 years, I didn't realize this. I thought I was better than you. I've been pretending that a chunk of you didn't exist. And then you get to decide. I want to hear some of these stories. Tell me about them. We've been together 20 years. We've made humans together. I can hear the stories. Or you can say, I don't. I don't want to hear the details. I don't need that in my head. I don't want to picture you with other. I don't want. I don't want that. I don't want that. But it sounds to me like the. Like, again, I don't want to reiterate myself over and over, but it sounds like the problem. You're the challenge. The stuck you feel is that. Oh, my gosh, I didn't think it. I didn't think it was going to. I thought I was past it. You, my friend, are not. You're still right back where you were. So as much as you feel comfortable, it's put on the table. And every conversation starts with an I statement. I think your marriage is gonna be good, man. I think it's gonna be good. I think you got some work to do. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right, good folks, listen. The modern world exposes us to things that were unheard of until just a few decades ago. And I don't mean the endless streams of lame videos or the rise of AI influencers. I'm talking about screens in our homes and offices. Fluorescent lights, emfs. These things can affect our mood, our sleep, our anxiety, and more. And that's why I'm so excited to partner with Bon Charge, a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use Bond Charge products all the time, literally every single day. And I love them. And here's why I think you're going to love them, too. Studies show red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress, and help with sleep. Red light therapy can help your recovery from aches and pains, transform your skin, and even help with cellulite and stretch marks. My red light therapy panels, my infrared sauna blanket, the EMF mat and more have become a cornerstone of my health and wellness routine. Like I said, I use them every day. And you can check out Bond Charge's other amazing products like blue light glasses, EMF protection products, infrared sauna blankets, and 100% blackout sleep masks. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15%. That's a B O N C-H-A R G E bondcharge.com DeLoney use coupon code DeLoney to save fifteen off your entire order. All right, let's be honest. There's no such thing as mental health separate from physical health, separate from emotional health separate from Listen. It's all just health. It all works together and everything's connected. It's impossible to be whole in one area and struggling in another. So if you're ready to make positive physical changes that can help restore some balance to your whole self, check out TrainWell. TrainWell offers tailored workouts with step by step guidance from real people. Meaning it's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer. It's the best of both. To get started, you just answer a few questions about your fitness journey where you happen to be. Hop on a chat with an expert trainer to discuss your goals and make a personalized plan. And then it's time for you to get to work. As you complete workouts, your trainer will keep tweaking them to help you get stronger and better. I love the workouts. My wife loves them and we both love how they adapt to my crazy travel schedule too. TrainWell takes away our excuses and makes working out easy. And they can do it for you. If you're ready to start taking control of your health, take the quiz to find your Perfect [e-mail] Deloney today they still have a special offer just for my audience. $69 a month. When you lock in your plan, that's almost 50% off their regular month rate plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.net DeLoney that's T R A I N W L L trainwell.net DeLoney Check it out. Let's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to Nikki. Not Nikki Six, but just regular Nikki. What's up, Nikki?

[Marie]

Hi John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How's it going?

[Marie]

It's going good. Just happy to be here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent. I'm glad you're here. What's up?

[Marie]

Okay, so here's my question. How do I support my alcoholic best friend while Maintaining healthy boundaries.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know. Tell me more. Tell me more.

[Marie]

Okay, so this is one of my very best friends of about 25 years. We've been friends since we were about 13. And she's like sister to me. She was a big part of my life growing up and into adulthood, except she lives on the other side of the country. I live close to where we grew up. But we always been really good at staying connected. And she does visit California often because her family is here, too. She is single. She doesn't have any kids. She owns a house by herself. She's really dedicated to her work. That's why she lives there. But essentially she's there alone. And so 25 years of friendship. There's obviously a lot of history there. And there were many incidents over the years kind of leading up to where we're at today. But the point of this call is that about nine months ago, she confessed to me that she is an alcoholic and that she's been lying to everyone around her for years. And so in this confession, I learned that the extent of that addiction is really bad. And so I did anything I could from afar to be as best of a friend as I could and just encouraged her to take steps in the right direction. Also worth noting that I believe I am kind of her main source of emotional support and the only person she has talked to about this. And on top of that, she literally asked me to just kind of keep this a secret from everyone who basically is on the other side of this double life that she's been living.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Who would be on the other side. She's not married, she doesn't have kids.

[Marie]

Her family, her job, our friends, even my family, like my husband. She just doesn't want me talking about it to anybody and kind of also expects me to go out of my way to cover it up with any mutual contacts we have, which I'm pretty close with her family. We have a lot of the same best friends, all of that kind of stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you see this escalating in a certain trend direction is getting worse.

[Marie]

So since all of that, it's been just a mess. It kind of turned into this draining cycle that was becoming a lot for me to handle and just be a part of on my own. So I did make the decision a few months ago to kind of distance myself from all of it and created some boundaries for myself, which, in a nutshell was basically that she will only have access to me in the way that she's used to if she can commit to pursuing Long term sobriety. And at the time, she didn't want that. She wasn't ready for it. So I took a step back. I still don't know if it was the right thing to do or not. But fast forward to today to kind of catch you up to speed. She now tells me that she hasn't had a drink in about two months. She says now she's going to AA on a weekly basis and that her mindset in general is just kind of shifting and she is starting to understand now that she does need long term sobriety from alcohol. So basically telling me, you know, all the things that we want to hear. And I hope that's all true. My main issue, I suppose, is a whether I should even be believing her and letting my walls down again. And even if she is telling the truth and she is making that progress, I'm so happy. But there are still just some views for me that haven't really changed and has just led me to still feel kind of conflicted and resentful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean, some views that haven't changed?

[Marie]

Yeah, so I think it is, you know, the fact that she still isn't being fully honest with the people around her and wants me to kind of COVID this up for her. When she, when we are together and she's still refusing to tell anyone else or admit to anyone else about her alcoholism and wants me to keep it a secret and uses me as kind of like excuses around things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Give me an example of that.

[Marie]

Yeah, so say when she is in town visiting family in California and she's going to an AA meeting, she tells them that she's, you know, she's going to, to see me or make plans with me or if she's bringing in non alcoholic products, she says they're mine. So it's not even the fact that she. How bad her alcoholism is, it's even that she's in recovery. She doesn't want anybody to know about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is her family behind closed doors, people who could metabolize the fact that she's in recovery.

[Marie]

I'm. I. So her, she has a interesting kind of relationship with her family. She only recently is rebuilding a relationship with them after being kind of estranged for the last couple years as a result of her alcohol use. So it wouldn't be a surprise, but I think it would strain things with them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so tell me if I'm, I'm out to lunch here. Here's what I'm picking up. Number one, you've been super close, totally vulnerable, 100% open to a person for a quarter century, and you found out that they kept a huge secret from you for a long time, and you're really hurt by that.

[Marie]

100% true.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I wrestle with the disease. That's a whole other conversation, but I'll just use this language. Your friend's been sick for a long, long, long time, and a function of the sickness is secrecy, as a matter of survival.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you can. You can choose to say you lied to me for 25 years or 23 years, or you can say after 23 years, I'm so deep in my bones, grateful that you found me the only safe person you could tell, because as well as you know her, I can almost guarantee you, you don't know the ins and outs of what she grew up with in her house.

[Marie]

Yeah, I mean, I. I know some of it, which is bad enough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So the second part of that is, anytime somebody's in recovery, recovery 101 is you got to be honest with people, but you got to be honest with people who can accept your honesty.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if her family cannot accept her honesty, then it makes sense that she doesn't just come home and say, hey, everybody, here you go.

[Marie]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because there's a. There's a chicken in an egg to. To addiction. Right?

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like you. You don't just become somebody who struggles with alcohol in a vacuum. Usually those seeds are planted along the way. And we drink. People who struggle with alcoholism, they drink because it works.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a powerful, powerful numbing tool to make that whatever pain is in there, whether that's from mom, whether it's from dad, whether that's from abuse, whether that's from assault, and who knows why, but it works.

[Marie]

Yeah. And I think that, you know, while I am surprised at the extent of how bad it was today, like, how much she was using on a regular basis and affecting her day to day, there's still. You know, the fact that she abuses alcohol is not a surprise to me, as I had mentioned, just so many things that have happened throughout the years. And I knew that there was. You know, it was a coping mechanism for her, for sure. I just didn't know the extent of how bad it was now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what I can't tell is, are you burdened by. Are you burdened by. I get. I guess I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes. If I had a friend who's been a friend for 25 years, and I've got several friends who've been friends that long, if one of Them said, hey, dude, I've been. I'm. I'm a long term alcoholic. I've been struggling for a long, long time, and I'm coming to visit my family and I'm gonna need to go to a couple of meetings and I'm not telling them. And so I'm gonna tell them you're at your place. I. I mean, if that. If that, I would gladly take that. I wouldn't lie for you. You can tell people whatever you want to tell them.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't tell if the burden is the problem or if I can really honest, Nikki. And this isn't actually. This is me with you at the table. Okay. It sounds like when she disclosed this, you went like, you rose above her in who's righteous and who's not.

[Marie]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I hope that's not the case. I don't think that that's the case at all. I actually, you know, I felt that in my immediate response when she first came clean to me was like, I will do anything I can to support you. Let me know what you need. You know, did a lot of work with her and just tried to get her in the right direction and was absolutely, you know, open to being her kind of point of contact for support.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, awesome.

[Marie]

I think it was in the period between then and now, there was a lot of the. You know, it just turned into kind of this exhausting cycle of celebrating each day together without drinking to. Then a relapse would come and I would find out by getting a drunken call out of nowhere, being completely belligerent, and then lying and gaslighting me. And then the next day, full of shame and regret and asking me forgiveness and support again. And then that just kind of repeating itself over and over again. That became really hard for me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is the. This year. Yes. Any of us who have ever have friends or loved ones who struggle with addiction know exactly what you just experienced. Yes.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's exhausting and it's frustrating. And so let me tell you this. You have permission to set strong boundaries.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Marie]

I. Okay. I think that what I struggle with now is I still want to be that person for her. I really do. I just don't. During that. That. That phase and seeing that cycle and how real that addiction was for her, I don't know what I can believe now. I feel like I don't. When she does tell me that she hasn't had a drink in two months, and do I just say, like, okay, great, like, what's the other option.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's the other option? You get to pick in that moment when she says, hey, I've not had a drink for two months. I'm just calling you to celebrate. You get to pick one of two things. A story that she's lying to you yet again, or a story that, oh, my gosh, she is on the path.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Either one of those stories have no impact on her. The only person they impact is you. And so you can pick. Yeah. Right. My. You lied to me for 25 years. You're still lying to me. Or. Yeah, dude, anytime. Anytime outside of a TV show that somebody says it's time, there's always fits and stops and starts.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And falling off the wagon. Getting back up. Falling off the wagon. You hear me say on the show. I took it from the recovery community. The day one language is day one. And lots of people who go to recovery have lots of day ones. Because you're learning how to feel that hurt that alcohol has been working so well to take away for so long.

[Marie]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's exhausting. Both are true.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what you want right now is both. And you want to be her person, but you don't want the weight of being her person.

[Marie]

Yeah. I think it's just. I'm up for being the person. It just. It's hard being the only person.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's fair. And I think that's where you can come in and say, I can't be your only anymore. And by the way, I'm not going to do things that violate my core value, which is like keep secrets from my husband. Not going to do that.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you want help from me, of course I'm going to bring him along. How dare you? You broke my trust. Okay, then. Then you're asking me to violate one of my core. Core values. I'm not going to lie to your family. You can tell them you're over at my house. Fine. I'm not going to go out of my way to lie for you.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll go with you to meetings or I need to know why they're suddenly so unsafe that they. You have to lie to them that you're bringing me into this. But what you're not establishing, I think that's important, is like wipe the table clean and just have. Just spend a minute with you. It's probably good to journal about this a little bit. Write it down.

[Marie]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are my values? Or in another way to say it more directly, who am I? I'm a woman who never keeps secrets from her Husband, period.

[Marie]

Yeah. I will say that one of the things. And I have. I feel like I have tried to do a lot of that type of reflection around this situation. One of the things that does bother me, that might be a me issue is kind of like, when she does come into town and we are with our friends and she is kind of pitching her life as something I know that it's absolutely not, and so it becomes uncomfortable for. I mean, I think that's the problem I have with her not being honest with other people. It's because it's, like, uncomfortable for me to just sit by and listen to what I know is lies in front of people I know could help her and support her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then you need to tell her that directly.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you come here, I can't just sit by and have you lie to all of our friends, because that violates one of my core values, which is I don't lie to my friends.

[Marie]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so if you all want to get together and we all hang out, that's fine. But you can't go on these tirades about how wonderful everything is when you're drowning, and I'm the only one who knows it. It's not fair to me, especially because all these other women love you as much as I do.

[Marie]

Mm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you see how it comes back to not something she's doing, but it's one of your values that's being violated. I'm not going to lie to my friends. And when you come here and do that, I feel like I'm put in a position to either support you or lie to them, and I'm not going to lie to my friends.

[Marie]

Yeah, that's helpful, because I think that that is the part I was struggling with if I should be putting my own values over, pushing or forcing my friend to do something she wasn't ready to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She brought you into it.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And so one of my things I've done multiple times is tell people, hey, you got 48 hours. And then I'm gonna get some other people involved in this. So you can control the story for 48 hours. You go make the phone calls you need to make, you send the text message, whatever you need to do. I am going to bring other people into this in 48 hours, 72 hours, because I can't carry the weight of this anymore. If you tell anybody, you're totally. No, no, no, no. You brought this to me, and I love you enough for you to not like me right now so that 10 years from now, we are Able to laugh. And I'm not at your funeral.

[Marie]

Yeah. I've had to kind of reiterate that a couple times to her that when she gets really angry with me, I just. I'm like, I love you, but your safety and health are more important to me than our friendship right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All day, every day.

[Marie]

It's okay if you're mad at me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All day, every day. I. That's probably one of the most common things I've said over my career is I'm much rather you hate me right now and be alive to hate me 10 years from now than the other way around than you to like me now and not be here in 10 years.

[Marie]

So, yeah, I do think it really is at the point of being afraid for know that she'll stay alive and with this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I think if. If possible, is there an opportunity for you all to see each other in person soon.

[Marie]

In the next month or so?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Okay. I would tell her we need to have a hard conversation next month. Give her some time.

[Marie]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I think it's worth you writing down your bullet points of that conversation so that it doesn't get. Because she'll. People who struggle with addiction are amazing at shifting the conversation. Part of the illness is honesty, an ability to see reality as it is. Right. All that's part. It's baked into it. And so the best you can do to not take it all personal. Right. As it's as. As her dishonesty is a personal attack on you versus her dishonesty is a way her body's telling her, this is what we have to do to stay alive. Right. That's why the amendment making amends is so important. Circling back and saying, I lied to you for this many years and I'm sorry, but that comes after. That's not. That's not step one. Right.

[Marie]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you backing up and saying, hey, here's. Here's how this is going to go from here on out. You came to me and told me this. I'm taking the reins on my life now. Here's how this is going to go, okay? I'm bringing in these four people in 48 hours. You can get everybody together and we can have a conversation and we'll rally around you and we'll pray for you, we'll get you whatever, we'll all pull our money if you need to go to rehab, go to 30 day, whatever, but I can't carry this by myself anymore. Screw you. I can't believe I trusted you. Yeah, I'm sorry. But she deserves to hear that from you directly, I think.

[Marie]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm comfortable saying that to her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Expect that to not go well. Don't be surprised if it doesn't go well. And again, this is so easy for me to do, but to say it from over here. But do your best to not take it personally, even though it will. It will hit you right in the middle of the chest. And she'll probably say some things about like, I know you struggle with this, and you did that. I didn't. You're right. You're right. Cool. Great. Grand. In 48 hours, I'm telling our four friends, 48 hours, I'm calling your sister. 48 hours, I'm calling your big brother. Unless you can tell me why that person's not safe. But I can't carry this anymore. I'm worried you're gonna die. Let's get pretty direct with it. And generally those conversations, it's great to have a phone number or two for somebody to call. I've even done research right here. Here's an area. A place in your area will get you in. We'll get you in. But, yeah, your boundaries are right. I think y'all have strung this thing along. Now that so far. Now that you're still holding on to this trust violation, let that go. You have a friend who's just deeply, deeply hurting. Let that stuff go for right now. Y'all can circle back on that later. What we're worried about now is I'm worried about her not being here anymore. And that means, as a friend, I gotta risk being hated, being not liked, being called names, because I'm over my head and I need some help. And we're not keeping this secret anymore. Thanks for the call, Nikki. Go do the next right thing. Holler back at us and let us know how that conversation goes. And if your friend wants to call in the show, I'd love to talk to her. It's awesome. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags and friendships and romantic relationships. You got red flags and green flags and beige flags. Listen. Yes, it can be helpful to look for relationship patterns or unsafe behaviors. But if you ask me, all these flag labels can distract from what's really important when you're trying to find a lasting relationship. What's really important are your values and your potential romantic partner's values and whether both of you are willing to wake up every day and choose to honor each other's values. But when you grow up in challenging environments, or given how we are all bombarded with everyone else's values all day, every day, it can be tough to even know what are my values, what is important to me in a relationship, and how will I show up to honor myself and love my partner? Forget all the different flags on someone else. Instead, ask yourself, how can I learn what I value? Therapy can help you figure out your values, help you learn for what you're looking for in relationships, and then help you decide your boundaries and non negotiables. If you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy that works with your schedule. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So whether you're dating, you're married, or you're building a friendship, or you're just working on yourself, give it a shot with better help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, let's go back out to California A and talk to dear Marie. What's up, Marie?

[E]

Hi. How's it going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just remarkable. What's up in your world?

[E]

Ah, not sitting in my car. I can't believe I'm doing this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I'm glad you're here. Cannonball in. What's up?

[E]

Okay, so it's kind of changed since I originally wrote my question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome.

[E]

A little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I don't even know what your really your original question is all the way, so go for it.

[E]

Excellent. All right. Okay. So starting in like mid December, it was like a week and a half before Christmas. I suddenly just stopped sleeping. Basically I would go to bed, fall asleep totally normally, and then pop up at like three hours later and just not be able to go back to sleep at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you have big life changes?

[E]

I did not. It felt like it was so out of nowhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[E]

And I, I have a one, a three and a four year old and so it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hold on. Those are big life changes, Marie. Good God.

[E]

Yeah. Well, I mean, we've been around for a year, a little more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, nothing's changed. I just have three human I created in the last four years.

[E]

Yeah. You know, pretty quickly and it, yeah, it felt like it was pretty out of nowhere. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want, I. I want to do a thing with you. Is that cool? I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm going to do a thing with you.

[E]

No, totally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, close your eyes.

[E]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then on the count of three, on the count of three, I don't want you to snap them open. Over exaggerated. You're in your car, nobody's watching, and if they are, they're going to think you're weird already. So three.

[E]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Two, one. Snap them open. Okay. You're wide eyed right now. Yes. Pretend it's 3am okay. What is your body desperately trying to get your attention for?

[E]

Well, the, the thought spiral that would happen is, was usually like first I would start to panic knowing that I was probably not going to fall back asleep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[E]

And then I would immediately start thinking about everything that I had to get done the next day that was about to be ruined.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[E]

And everything because it's the holidays that is about to get ruined and I'm gonna make myself sound like a crazy person. But the, you know, then the thought spiral continues and then it goes into, oh my gosh, if I am this level of sleep deprived, then I have a hard time not being impatient with my three very small children. And then I'm going to be a terrible mom that day and my kids are getting a subpar childhood and it just goes and goes and goes. And I would find I just find myself spending so much energy trying to actively stop my thoughts. Snowball.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There you go. That's it. That's it.

[E]

Yeah, that's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you still married?

[E]

I am, yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In some of these thought spin outs, do you look over and see your husband just peacefully dead asleep next to you and you just want to punch him?

[E]

Actually, yes. Yes and no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know.

[E]

Yes, because I wish I was sleeping. No, because he's been like a rock star through all of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'm gonna rattle some things off to you. Okay.

[E]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Number one, I like to start with the idea that my body's not broken.

[E]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to start with the idea that it's. My body's doing the best it can. Okay. That's not always the case, but most of the time it is.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if you have three young kids.

[E]

I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you. I'm going to rattle off four or five things. Okay. See if any of these hit home. If you don't have active engaged relationships with other women on or about your age or some help with those kids, your body would be failing you if it let you sleep all night. If you and your husband owe a bunch of money and your amygdala knows I've got three kids. And if one thing happens during this Christmas season and we don't make this sale or we don't get this thing or his raise doesn't come through, they're going to take our house and our cars and our food. If any of that is true, even if it's bananas, that's way down the road. Your body would be failing you if it let you sleep all night. If you can't think of the last time you wrote things down or you felt like you were doing anything. You ever been skiing before? Water skiing?

[E]

I failed, but yes, I tried.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, but when? Okay, so you know what I'm about to say? Whenever you're water skiing and you're behind the boat and you wave like, all right, go for the first 30 yards, you're just getting blasted in the face with water until you can get up on top of the water. When you have a one year old, God help you, much less a four year old and a three year old on top of it, most of your day. Feels like I'm getting dragged behind the boat and I can't get on top of the water.

[E]

Yes, that's accurate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you, your body knows any one thing that doesn't get done, the whole day falls over. It would be failing you if it let you sleep. So what happens is you go and you go and you go and you go and you go and you tell yourself a story. I don't have time to sit down and journal. I don't have time to go have a cup of coffee with somebody. I don't have time to go talk to a counselor. My husband. I don't have time or any money to get somebody to come watch the kids for half a day so we can reimagine our marriage. Because our marriage is completely different than it was four years ago. Then your body's going to crash for three hours, take the minimum amount of sleep it can get by on, and it's going to spring you back awake because it is under threat. Loneliness, clutter, debt, existential angst. And what I mean by that is lots of scrolling, lots of news watching, lots of people making predictions about the future and they're trying to get you to buy stuff because by terrifying you and you got three little kids, your body is not wired to absorb all of that. So it may be that you're not broken as much as there's just some things you got to do differently during the day. Does that make sense?

[E]

Yes, definitely. The not having it in my Head. That there's zero time to sit down and that if one thing goes off the rails, then everything is toast.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[E]

I just don't know how to get out of that thought pattern. It's so hard. I don't know how to make my brain stop doing that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So in counseling, one of the. One of the terms we use is leakage. It's just a gross word. I know, but it is what it is. Those fears and those thoughts and those to do's, they will find their way out of your body. You can take the time throughout the day and write them down, or they will wake you up in the middle of the night to get out, but they will come out.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I understand that. What I'm asking a mother of three. Are you working? Are you staying at home?

[E]

I am staying at home right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Can you honestly look me in the face even though we're on the phone and tell me you aren't dreadfully lonely?

[E]

I actually am not. I have like the best friends ever. I'm so blessed. I feel like I have an army of people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you see them in person? You'll hang out?

[E]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Do y'all talk about.

[E]

Not as much as I'd like, but yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You talk about real stuff?

[E]

Yeah, we do. We do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent. Will y'all commit to writing things down?

[E]

Yeah, I will.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And commit to saying, okay, I need somebody to come over twice a week so I can go for a walk by myself. Yeah, I need a nap. During the day or for you? Right now I need to stay up during the day and I'm going to use that time to write, even though all I want to do is lay down and go to sleep because I'm so tired I can't even see straight.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How's your marriage?

[E]

Great. My, My husband's wonderful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He can be wonderful and you can be wonderful. Yeah. But y'all can both be great. But you both may be operating on old software.

[E]

Oh, no, he's. We, we. Honestly, we've. We actually, we've been. Both been listening to your show for like a year and we've put into practice a lot of things that we've heard you talk about. And we did a little year end meeting.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Dude, look at you.

[E]

We were like, this is. I just feel like the best. We've been married 11 years and I was like, year 11 was just the best year for us, even though I stopped sleeping.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. So a couple of just tricks of the trade. If you bust wide awake at 3 o'clock in the morning.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

After 10 minutes, get up.

[E]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

After 10 minutes, get UP. And I want you to smile and it's going to be so hard to do because you're going to be pissed off.

[E]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to smile and say, well, I guess it's time to get up. And then I want you to go into another room and get out a notebook, a journal of some sort and write down. All right, you woke me up. What do we got to do? And here's all I want you to do. I want you to write on a list all the stuff that's in your head. Just get it out of your head and onto a piece of paper. Okay?

[E]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then I want you to take that list and really quickly at 3am, divide it up. What are these can I do tomorrow? What of this is existential and I can't do anything about it. You can't do anything personally about the fires in California. You can't personally do anything about the state of the world economy and the rise of AI. You can't do anything about that.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can say, I've got five amazing friends once a week. Everybody's coming over for dinner. Husband, I love you. You're out. I can say, hey, husband, you and I need to get on budget because we're going to stop being in debt because I'm tired of my body waking me up at 3am because we're under existential threat because we owe all this money.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you get what I'm saying?

[E]

Yeah, I do. I hear you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. If a couple of weeks of that doesn't stop. Oh, by the way, after that, go get a book and a light, a low, like a low glow light, a non blue light, and just read some fiction in the living room until your eyes start to really droop and then go back and get in bed. But here's what we need to do. We need to retrain our bodies that are. They don't go to war in that bed. So if we go to war, we, we get up because I don't want my body to begin to tense up and anticipate going to bed and then sleep, sleep, sleep. And then it crashes and it wakes up like, oh, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep. And then it just. You're training your body that that's where we fight.

[E]

All right. Yeah, I can definitely, I, I can definitely relate to that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

After a few weeks, if this is not getting any better, I want you to call your OB GYN and say, I'm really struggling. Okay.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I don't I won't give brand names. I'm very weary of sleep meds especially. I won't give brand names. But sleep hypnotics, they don't put you to sleep, they make you unconscious.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But they also, in the very short term, can help retrain yourself. Like, this is a place where we go to sleep.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So carefully and thoughtfully, I would sit down with the doctor.

[E]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But hear me say commit. Today I'm going to stop going to war with my body. If it's waking me up at 3, it probably is trying to get my attention about something. I just need to figure out what that is. And for some people, just shifting the posture of go to sleep with instead of, I'm glad you woke me up. What's up? Sometimes that's enough just to drop your whole body posture.

[E]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sometimes creating time at 9am in the morning to write down. All right, here's what I need to get done today. Here's what must get done. Here's what I'd love to get done. And here's end of time if I don't. Right. All that.

[Marie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And. But I'm gonna get those things out maybe at 2:00 in the afternoon, which again, I'm making stuff up. I'm talking to a mom of three kids under four. That's lots of booties to wipe and lots of baths to get. I get it, I get it, I get it. If you got 10 minutes, 5 minutes where you can just exhale and say, I'm really grateful for my husband. I'm really grateful for these three crazy kids. I'm really grateful for this household. Like, I'm just gonna take a minute to see how I feel. I'm gonna check in with myself and if I'm not doing okay, I'm gonna have that text thread of those four or five women that I just love because I'm so blessed by them. I'm gonna send out a note, not doing okay, everybody think about me tonight. If y'all want to come have a cup of hot tea on the back porch, come over to my house. But everyone has to leave at 8:45 because I'm going to bed at 9. But let's begin to try to let some of that stuff out during the day and try to get some actual solution plans. The body is amazing at dealing with stressful things. When it knows you're driving, it will wake you up every three hours. If it thinks there's no driver and the car is just careening off the edge of a cliff, you can Be in the driver's seat driving off the cliff. And it won't. You won't be anxious, you'll be nervous, you'll be frustrated, you'll be exhausted, you'll be annoyed, but you're not anxious. Your body's waking you up because it doesn't think anybody's driving. So we're going to find teeny tiny pockets of digging in and finding out. Okay? Why you keep waking me up. I need to let you know I'm driving. I know, I know, I know. I want to get all these bottles washed. And I know it's not the end of time if I don't. I know I want to get these diapers purchased. It will be fine. It'll be annoying tomorrow, but it'll be fine. Fine. Let's get all that on paper before 9 o'clock, before we go to bed. And again, couple weeks of some really intentional. I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna get up, go the other room, call your doctor, say I'm really, really struggling with sleep. Can we talk about it? You aren't broken, Marie. You're not broken. You're doing good. Those three little kids are lucky, lucky, lucky to have you as their mama. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Delete Me. My go to provider for online safety, security and peace of mind. Listen, we all know that we live on the Internets these days. I wish this was not the case, but it doesn't matter if I don't like it. Everything in my life and in your life takes place over the Internets now. Our work, our personal messages and communications, we buy most of our things, everything's on the Internet now. So much of our lives exist there. And because so much of our lives take place on the Internet, it's become normal. Normal to give away our email addresses to random companies who then turn around and sell them to other companies. And this is why I'm happy to use and recommend Delete Me. I looked at my reports that my friends at Delete Me sent me. They've reviewed over 35,000 different data brokers with my personal information. And they've removed my personal info from hundreds of scammy data broker sites. Delete Me has saved me countless hours, days even. And they've sent me detailed reports throughout the year showing me exactly what they've removed and from where. I want you to have this kind of peace too. So, listen, we can't really avoid the Internet, but we can make our personal Data personal again with delete me. Get protected with delete me today and get 20% off all of the delete me plans. And that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Go to joindeleteme.com deloney right now to sign up. That's J o I n joinedeleteme.com DeLoney all right, we are back. Oh, by the way, during the break, I gave that last caller Bill an unanx life. I think that'd be a good road map for them, her and her husband to walk through. Dude, there, Kelly, there's nothing worse. I just have ptsd. Not diagnosed, but just imaginary PTSD from those years when I couldn't sleep. Oh, my gosh. Getting Wake up. 3:00am 3:00am 3:00am, 3:00am all right, so something cool happened. Go for it.

[Nikki]

All right. And I, I've never, not, I've never had a problem with sleep, but I'm married to someone who struggles big time with sleep. So I have a lot of compassion for her because I see what it does to him. He struggled with sleep for 20 years, so it's. It's a lot. All right, this is from Most.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Made the best joke about rolling over and seeing you, but I didn't.

[Nikki]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I didn't make it. I didn't make the joke.

[Nikki]

But if you say the joke you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Didn'T make, it doesn't count. Anywho, you can't triple stamp a double stamp.

[Nikki]

All right, this is from Don, and she says over the holidays, I got behind on a few episodes and I started listening to two episodes in one day for like a week. That's a lot. John mentioned a few different times about stating what you want in your relationships. I gathered my courage and because we were both at work, I had to send him a text. But I texted my husband about some things I want in the bedroom. Not need, because he responds to my needs very well. This was a want, which is very scary for me to state. He texted back almost immediately saying that he understands and he's happy to go along with it and he's really glad that I told him. Thank you for encouraging me to handle this quickly. We've only been married for two months, and instead of letting it go unsaid and feeling the certain type of way for years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Nikki]

Thanks for the show. What is the name for a Deloney groupie? You may have to workshop that one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A doopie?

[Nikki]

Nope.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know.

[Nikki]

We need, like, a collective noun. You know, how, like, you have a, like a murder of crows or, you know, that one. Come on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. Murder of crows. But I'm just thinking like a murder of.

[Nikki]

But we need a. We need a collective now again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Our gang for the gang. Yeah, I'm in on that. If somebody wants to ride in to John Deloney.com Ask and Put Put name of gang in the byline. If we pick your name, we'll send you a bunch of Deloney gear. That would be awesome. Could do. Felonies. The felonies. That's how it always auto corrects is to felony.

[Nikki]

To that or baloney or.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, or to baloney. Hey, high five. What was it? Who was that? Dawn. Dawn.

[Nikki]

Her name was Dawn. She has to go by Dawn.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Excellent. I am so proud of you. I don't love that you texted it, but hey, you know what? I'm super happy that it happened. And in case you're wondering, I there's outliers everywhere. Most husbands I know would love to get a text message from their wife saying things that she wants to do in the bedroom. Hashtag, just saying, probably be awesome if you said it. But man, the text. Good place to start. Doesn't surprise me that he immediately responded with awesome. Cool. Great. I'm in, right? Yes. Not a surprise. Awesome, everybody. Thank you all for joining us on the show. I think like a theme of the show today, Kelly, was like, if your friends or loved ones do something and it says something off inside of you, you gotta look in the mirror first. Let's be with each other. Love you guys. Bye.