Should I Quit Trying to Involve My Ex in Our Daughter’s Life?

Summary

Summary of "Should I Quit Trying to Involve My Ex in Our Daughter’s Life?" Episode of The Dr. John Deloney Show

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Dr. John Deloney Show
• Host/Author: Ramsey Network
• Episode: Should I Quit Trying to Involve My Ex in Our Daughter’s Life?
• Release Date: January 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dr. John Deloney Show, Dr. John Deloney addresses complex relationship and mental health challenges faced by listeners. The primary focus revolves around co-parenting dynamics, legal custody arrangements, and navigating familial responsibilities amidst personal struggles. Skipping over advertisements and non-content segments, the episode delves deeply into callers' real-life issues, offering insightful advice grounded in empathy and practical solutions.

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Caller Jennifer: Navigating Co-Parenting Without Legal Custody

Timestamp: [00:05] – [08:12]

Jennifer's Dilemma: Jennifer from Anaheim, California, seeks guidance on whether she should involve her daughter's biological father in school activities, especially since he has shown little interest in participating otherwise. Given that there is no legal custody arrangement in place, Jennifer is concerned about her daughter’s relationship with her biological father and her husband’s frustration over the father's lack of involvement.

Dr. Deloney’s Guidance: Dr. Deloney emphasizes the critical importance of establishing a legal custody arrangement. He passionately advises, “Please get a legal custody arrangement. Please, please, please, please, please. The greatest gift you can give her is some clarity.” [02:14]. He underscores that without clear legal boundaries, Jennifer risks future complications that could adversely affect their daughter’s emotional well-being.

Key Recommendations:

1. Legal Custody Arrangement: Dr. Deloney urges Jennifer to formalize custody to provide stability and prevent future disputes. He warns against the ambiguity, stating, “Ambiguity does not work in these situations.” [05:53].
2. Consideration for New Marriage: He advises that finalizing custody now can protect the family from potential future conflicts if the biological father remarries.
3. Full Custody and Termination of Parental Rights: Dr. Deloney suggests the possibility of filing for full custody and termination of the biological father's parental rights, allowing Jennifer’s husband to adopt their daughter. This, he believes, would provide a stable and supportive environment for the child.

Notable Quote: “Number one, no, if dad is showing no interest, behaviors of language, he's opted out. Number two, there's got to be some legal protection here for your daughter, for you and your new husband.” [05:53]

Outcome: Jennifer expresses that Dr. Deloney’s advice has given her a new perspective on the situation. She considers legal steps to solidify her family’s stability, balancing her desire to maintain a relationship with her ex while prioritizing her daughter's well-being.

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Caller Brooke: Helping Her Son Overcome Fear After Father's Accident

Timestamp: [16:13] – [25:21]

Brooke’s Challenge: Brooke from Charleston, West Virginia, calls in seeking advice on helping her four-year-old son overcome his fear of the woods after witnessing his father’s hiking accident. The incident left a significant emotional impact on both her husband and their son, exacerbated by underlying ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) in both her husband and son.

Discussion Points:

1. Impact of the Accident: Brooke recounts the traumatic event where her husband slipped and fell during a hike, leading to a severe ankle injury. Her son, witnessing the accident, has since developed a fear of the woods, a place that previously served as a calming environment for them.
2. Emotional Responses: Dr. Deloney explores the emotional dynamics, highlighting how the son's fear is tied to the father's display of pain and vulnerability during the accident.

Dr. Deloney’s Strategies:

1. Exposure Therapy: He recommends gradual exposure to the feared environment. Suggesting, “The nerd is exposure. We're gonna gently walk him back through it.” [20:03], he advises that the father should participate in small, positive interactions in the woods with their son to rebuild a sense of security and normalcy.
2. Creative Expression: Encouraging activities like drawing, Dr. Deloney suggests that Brooke engage her son in drawing both the scary and positive aspects of the woods. This helps him process his fears while associating the environment with positive experiences.
3. Emotional Resilience: Emphasizing resilience, he notes, “They're so resilient if the adults in their lives are resilient too.**” [20:17], reinforcing the importance of parents modeling strength and coping mechanisms.

Key Recommendations:

• Father’s Active Participation: Encouraging the father to take small steps into the woods with their son, demonstrating recovery and normalcy.
• Creative Coping Mechanisms: Utilizing drawing to help the child articulate and manage his fears.
• Consistent Support: Maintaining a stable and supportive home environment to anchor the child emotionally.

Notable Quote: “Ambiguity does not work in these situations. Thanks for the call, my friend. I wish you guys the best.” [05:53] – While addressing Jennifer, this quote underscores the importance of clarity and structure, principles similarly applicable to Brooke’s situation.

Outcome: Brooke adopts Dr. Deloney’s advice, planning to involve her husband in gradual exposure activities with their son and incorporate creative exercises to help him overcome his fear, fostering a supportive and resilient family environment.

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Caller Brooke: Assisting Her Brother with Financial Responsibility

Timestamp: [27:01] – [47:04]

Brooke’s Second Call: In a follow-up segment, Brooke from Dallas, Texas, seeks advice on helping her brother become financially responsible while he stays with her family. Her brother struggles with alcoholism and gambling addiction, making it challenging to maintain financial stability. Brooke feels conflicted between supporting her brother and managing her own household, especially after her husband lost his twin brother to suicide shortly before her brother moved in.

Dr. Deloney’s Insights:

1. Boundary Setting: Highlighting that Brooke initially set a boundary by requiring her brother to adhere to a budget, Dr. Deloney emphasizes the necessity of enforcing boundaries for healthy relationships.
2. Accountability Tools: He advises implementing structured accountability measures, such as weekly budget reviews, to ensure her brother remains on track financially.

Key Recommendations:

1. Firm Boundaries with Compassion: Dr. Deloney encourages Brooke to maintain her boundaries firmly yet compassionately, acknowledging her own emotional limitations. He states, “You, Brooke, didn’t not keep your brother-in-law safe. That's not on you.” [34:50].
2. Financial Independence: Suggesting that Brooke provides her brother with a down payment for an apartment, he advocates for empowering him to take responsibility for his own living situation. “I'd rather you give him $2,500 and say, we love you. Here's a down payment on an apartment.” [44:47].
3. Self-Care and Prioritization: Dr. Deloney emphasizes the importance of Brooke prioritizing her own family's needs over her brother’s struggles, ensuring she doesn’t become overwhelmed or resentful.

Notable Quotes:

• “He didn’t ask for your accountability.” [30:33]
• “Give yourself some grace. You guys lost somebody so, so close.” [31:08]
• “Your little boy is absorbing the fear and the tension in the home...” [12:32] – Reflecting similar themes of stability and clarity.

Outcome: Brooke grapples with the emotional difficulty of enforcing boundaries with her brother while managing her responsibilities as a wife and mother. Inspired by Dr. Deloney’s advice, she contemplates having a candid conversation with her husband and brother to establish clear expectations and potentially assist her brother in finding independent living arrangements.

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Listener Email: Transformation Through Vulnerability and Self-Worth

Timestamp: [50:46] – [53:12]

Gina’s Email: A listener named Gina shares her transformative experience following a brief conversation with Dr. Deloney. His advice enabled her to shift her mindset from insecure comparisons to understanding her value in her relationship, particularly in the context of her girlfriend’s previous boyfriend’s suicide.

Key Takeaways from the Email:

1. Self-Worth and Love: Gina highlights how Dr. Deloney helped her recognize her worth and capability of being loved by reframing her insecurities.
2. Overcoming Vulnerability Fear: She acknowledges that his guidance on embracing vulnerability has lifted deep-seated fears and shacksled beliefs about deserving love.

Dr. Deloney’s Response: Expressing heartfelt appreciation, Dr. Deloney reinforces the importance of vulnerability in creating profound and meaningful connections, despite the inherent risks of potential hurt. He references C.S. Lewis’s sentiment, “There's one way to never get hurt, and that is to never love or be loved.” [52:16], emphasizing the value of embracing love fully.

Notable Quote: “Being vulnerable almost guarantees that you will get hurt, but it will also guarantee that you can be loved in a profound and deep way.” [52:16]

Outcome: Gina experiences a significant personal breakthrough, attributing her newfound sense of self-worth and openness to love directly to Dr. Deloney’s compassionate and insightful advice, exemplifying the show's impact on listeners' lives.

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Concluding Thoughts

Throughout this episode, Dr. John Deloney demonstrates his adeptness at addressing sensitive and multifaceted issues related to relationships, parenting, and personal growth. His approach balances empathy with actionable advice, empowering callers to navigate their challenges with clarity and resilience. By emphasizing the importance of legal structures, emotional resilience, and boundary setting, Dr. Deloney provides listeners with practical tools to enhance their personal and familial well-being.

Final Notable Quote: “Ambiguity does not work in these situations. For her sake, let's get this thing wrapped up and protected.” [05:53]

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John Deloney Show serves as a valuable resource for individuals grappling with co-parenting complexities, familial responsibilities, and personal insecurities. Dr. Deloney's thoughtful and strategic advice offers listeners the guidance needed to foster healthier relationships, secure legal protections, and develop stronger emotional foundations for themselves and their families.

Transcript

[Jennifer]

Do I involve my daughter's biological dad in school activities when he shows no interest otherwise to pick her up, or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What'S the custody arrangement?

[Jennifer]

There is no legal custody arrangement. We kind of just left it for now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't do that, please. Please don't do that.

[Kelly]

What up?

[Alex]

What's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is Dr. John Deloney show, taking your calls from all over planet earth, taking your calls on your relationships, your marriages, your kids, what to do next with your emotional and your mental health schooling, what, whatever you got going on in your life.

[Alex]

Here's my promise.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'll sit with you. We'll figure out what's the next right move. Give me a buzz at 1844, 6933291 or go to john deloney.comslask ask. And I get questions from all over the planet, from Europe, from some Asian countries, from Australia. Yes, you can write in. Yes, we've had people from other countries on the show, John Deloney.com ask and we'll figure out a way that we can connect if we can line up our schedules together. So I'd love to have you on the show and take a quick second.

[Alex]

Quick second hit subscribe on the YouTubes, man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you so, so much. All right, let's go out to Anaheim, California, A and talk to Jennifer.

[Alex]

What's up, Jennifer?

[Jennifer]

Hi, John. How are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, I'm dancing like I've never danced before. How about you?

[Jennifer]

Oh, I just woke up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm not dancing. So same team.

[Alex]

What's up?

[Jennifer]

Okay, so my question is, do I involve my daughter's biological dad in school activities when he shows no interest otherwise to pick her up or, you know. Yeah, pretty much just pick her up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Otherwise, no. But continue and tell me your story.

[Jennifer]

Okay, so there was. She just started school. She's five. And there was a teachers conference. And, you know, I thought it was, you know, my due diligence to tell him, like, oh, there's a teachers conference. If you would want to be involved, you can. And you know, he was like, yeah, sure. But then my husband, he had a problem with it and he feels like because my daughter's biological dad doesn't show interest in picking her up on his days off, he has three days off, works four days, has three days off, and he doesn't pick her up on those days, which, you know, I feel he should. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what's the custody arrangement?

[Jennifer]

There is no legal custody arrangement. We kind of just left it for now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

God, don't do that. Please. Please don't do that.

[Jennifer]

Well, I. I'm only 24. I had her when I was 19.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. And so I'm telling you as an old man, I'm a thousand years old. Please get a legal custody arrangement. Please, please, please, please, please. The greatest gift you can give her is some clarity. Because what's going to happen is he's going to meet somebody and that person's going to start running everybody's life. And you're going to make a decision based on. I don't use this word mean. I mean, I mean this in the best sense, but based on a fantasy. Like, I had a baby, an amazing young girl by this guy. He's kind of been a deadbeat. I'm remarried, I'm going on with my life. But he is going to rise to the challenge and be a great friend and co parent to our amazing little daughter. He's not. He sucks. And so you're gonna keep ticking along and what you're going to find yourself doing is trying to drag him into a situation that he is. Behaviors of language. He is letting everybody know, including his precious little baby girl. I don't want anything to do with this, but someday somebody's going to sue you for custody and he's going to show you. Look at all these conferences I went to look at all this. And he never picked her up, never helped, never put a dime on the table. I, I can't tell you how important it is to get a custody agreement illegal. And then just follow it. But to answer your broad question, without an agreement, if you have a guy here that shows no interest, doesn't pick his daughter up, isn't driving you crazy trying to see his precious baby girl, then he is telling you on a day to day, minute by minute, second by second basis, I don't care about your life. I don't care about her life. And so he doesn't. He's opting out. And so. No, he doesn't. He is not a part of her rhythms of her life. And will that come back and haunt her? God, yes. But what you and your new husband can do is give her an amazing tethered home so that when she begins asking the terrifying question, what was so bad about me that daddy chose to opt out of my life, that she'll at least have an anchored, stable group of adults, a mom and a dad at home that she can stay tethered to while she really goes through that haunted house. Does that make sense?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You.

[Jennifer]

You really got me thinking now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tell me.

[Jennifer]

We've thought about the. The custody thing, there was a time where, you know, things got very crazy, and we thought about it. We think we would win just because we actually, we have everything settled. We have our own apartment. You know, we're both working. We have our son as well. And, you know, we've. We've. We've got life together.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And a great thing that will be in your favor is four years of dad being completely mia and really what you'll go to. And you'll petition the court to just codify what is. Can we just go ahead and get in writing that this guy wants nothing to do with her? As he's demonstrated for the last four years. What you don't want to do is have him get married and have somebody think that they can somehow have access to. Your husband's going to get a giant promotion one day, you're going to get a house, and your deadbeat ex is going to have somebody in his life that's going to want some of that money, and your daughter will become a. A bargaining chip. Not doing that. It may happen anyway, but at least you'll have some established precedent. Did he show up to the. To the. To the school meeting?

[Jennifer]

No, he didn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm done.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I think the person that's gonna have to grieve the most here is you. Because probably for five years, you've wanted this man to be something that he is not.

[Jennifer]

Most definitely. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You've wanted him to become somebody that he does not have any interest in becoming. If you sat down with your current new husband. How long have y'all been married?

[Jennifer]

We've been married for almost four years now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. If I'm you, you may not get this, but I would file for full custody, and I'd also file for termination of parental rights, and my husband gets to adopt her.

[Jennifer]

That would be a dream.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would. I would go get an attorney and see if you can make that happen. And that will probably be expensive. And your attorney can tell you whether they think they can win or not. California's got some wonky stuff, but it often falls against the man, especially the deadbeat. And you may have an opportunity here because one day, I want your. Your current husband. Is he a good man?

[Jennifer]

Very. He's. He. He grew up a Christian. Biblically, you know, I know a lot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Of moronic Christians, though. Is he a good guy?

[Jennifer]

No, he's a very good guy, I promise you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So I. I would love for him, when your daughter's deconstructing, which will Happen. I would love for him to be able to look at her and say, yeah, but I chose you. I went and fought the courts for you. You're right. Your daddy, he chose something else. And I'm so sorry. We, none of us can change that. But I never want you to forget. I, I went, I went and got you. I want that to be his story. Is that fair?

[Jennifer]

Yeah, no, that's, that's been a topic of conversation. She still calls my husband by his first name.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's. How much, how much interaction has she had with bio dad?

[Jennifer]

She's been with him since a year old.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Does she go stay with him? Does she go spend the night with him? How does that work?

[Jennifer]

Oh, no, no, no. I was like you said, with biological dad. Yes. No. Yeah, since, since she was born. She was going to see him like, you know, on his weekends. I've been with my husband since she was a year old. And so after that point, that's when he started just doing visitation. Usually it was once a week because that's all he could manage. We do live quite far apart, but yeah, so eventually when she started school that kind of started dwindling down because now his days off are on the weekdays and you know, he has the weekends that he could take her, but it's just very wonky and he's trying to, you know, get his schedule fixed. But I know the type of person that he is and he, he's not the type to really get working on things.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I can, I can imagine that's heartbreaking for a father. And then I'm going to be tired on my days off because I'm going to get up at 5 o'clock in the morning and be at your house by 6:30 in the morning. So I can take her to breakf. I can take her to school and I'm going to work on my GED or I'm going to work on a certification class in town and I'm going to pick her up from school and we're going to go get ice cream because she's the most important thing that ever happened to me ever, ever, ever. And I just don't have a lot of sympathy for anything else. But I think it's so broadly answering your question. Number one, no, if dad is showing no interest, behaviors of language, he's opted out. Number two, there's got to be some legal protection here for your daughter, for you and your new husband, and quite frankly for her bio dad. Give him some sort of opportunity to speak up publicly. But I think he's. I think he's done five years of speaking up. But, but to really sit down and clarify stuff, this ambiguity, I promise you promise you promise you will come back and bite you. And if it bites you, the person who will pay the biggest price is your daughter. So for her sake, let's get this thing wrapped up and protected. That might mean that you miss a weekend or that might mean, fine, great, if dad's gonna step up and be a part of this thing, cool. But man, ambiguity does not work in these situations. Thanks for the call, my friend. I wish you guys the best. We'll be right back.

[Alex]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

On the Ramsey Network app and you can get the show up to a week early. Click the link in the show notes below or go to and download the Ramsey Network app on the Internet, on Google or Android platforms or wherever you. I don't. Dude, I don't know how the Internet's work. Just go find the Ramsey Network app. Y'all know how to do that more than I do. Let's go out to Charleston, West Virginia, talk to Alex. What's up, Alex?

[Brooke]

Hey. Hey, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Alex]

What's up? How we doing?

[Brooke]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent.

[Alex]

What's going on in your world?

[Brooke]

So my question is, how can I help my son overcome his fear of the woods after he witnessed his dad in a hiking accident?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, man. Tell me more about it.

[Brooke]

So my husband and son were hiking on my parents farm and my husband slipped and fell and broke his ankle and dislocated it pretty badly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ooh, pretty gnarly.

[Brooke]

Yeah, pretty bad. Yeah, it's got a lot of hardware in there now, but he since had some surgery. He's recovering pretty smoothly so we're hoping he'll be walking here soon. The problem is that my son was with him whenever he fell and my husband is not a very hide Your emotions kind of guy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Brooke]

He's very loud and he screamed and he was. I know he was in pain, but he screamed really loud.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And men love, love to let other people know that we're in pain.

[Brooke]

My son, on the other hand, he's very bubbly and happy and he was yelling for me, saying that daddy hurt his leg. He was very scared.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Brooke]

And so we ran up there, I got my husband settled, I took him to the ER and got him taken care of. But since the accident, my son has been very scared of where the accident happened. Okay. In the woods. My husband and son both have add and I have found independently that the woods and hiking is like the place where they calm down.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's, it's, it's a magic. Magic when you, when you find that out and finally figure that out and you realize what we do to kids in schools, especially little boys, you realize what the great travesty we've done to a generation of human is. But yes, I'm 100% with you. Me and my son live in the woods. It's so. My daughter too. It's just yes, yes and yes.

[Brooke]

Yeah. So now I'm kind of worried because now he's very scared of the wood. And I want to help him to overcome that fear so we can go hiking and, and to go camping and stuff. Again, like I said, we're in West Virginia, so we have woods everywhere.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. That's right. So the greatest gift that could be given to that four year old little boy is your husband with his crutches, goes back out, even if it's just a little bit, and takes that little boy with him.

[Brooke]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your little boy is absorbing the fear and the tension in the home, especially from dad. He got scared his body, he learned at a very young age the dad's not the su. Is not Superman. I remember being a very young kid, maybe five or six or seven, arguing with my dad that my dad could beat up. I don't remember, like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. And my dad was like, I can't, son. And I was like, yes, you can. But he's my dad. Right. And so you're a 4 year old.

[Alex]

Not only did he see dad get.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hurt in the woods, but his world shattered. My dad's a human. Most people don't figure that out until their dad, like they find out about infidelity or he doesn't clear his search history or he gets cancer. Right. That's when they find out. Your son found out at 4, right. And so dad needs to go back with him out into the woods. So what we're gonna. The nerd is. The nerd word is exposure. We're gonna gently walk him back through it. Another thing you could possibly do with him is have him draw a picture of the woods and at night begin drawing pictures with him. So he can begin to conjure up pictures of the woods. But he's got the relational safety of being right next to mom at the kitchen table.

[Brooke]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And he can draw what's a scary thing that happened in the woods. And he'll probably draw a picture of dad falling down or a slippery rock and then say, draw me something that's awesome in the woods. And you'll find four year olds are in.

[Alex]

They're like Gumby.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They are so resilient if the adults in their lives are resilient too. So can I ask you a hard question? Is your husband laying around moaning still, or is he being pretty tough about everything? Not, not tough. Not like in the Marboro man tough. But is he, is he, is he working on healing or is he, is he soaking this thing up?

[Brooke]

I think he had a little bit of time where he did kind of, kind of had a pity party for a little bit. And I don't mean that, mean, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, I mean, it's, it stings.

[Brooke]

Yeah, but, but since like this past weekend, um, he's been hopping on one leg around, he's been going back to work, he's been doing things on him, on himself, trying to do exercises and stuff. So he's kind of getting back up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If he'll, if he'll invite his son with him. Hey, will you help daddy do these exercises? Daddy needs your help on some of these exercises because we're going to make my leg real strong again and we're not going to use words like we're going to fix because daddy's not broken. There's nothing wrong with dad. Dad just got his. He got hurt and his, his legs healing up. And so little boy is going to participate in the work dad is going to do to get back out there. And then if he's got some crutches and he can begin to say, hey.

[Alex]

Let'S go out there and see if.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We can find a bird, okay? I need, I need to see a.

[Alex]

Bird would make me feel better right now. Let's go see if we can find a bird.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Daddy, I don't want to. I'm going to go. I want you to go with me and we're going to invite him out and you can start drawing pictures. Now, I want you to hear for everybody listening, especially I want you to hear what I'm not doing. You can't fix this. You can't heal this as much as dad can, okay? Because this is scary about the woods. But the woods now represent a place that took the soul, took the air of my dad's mystique away. That's what this. That's what the big fear is, not the slippery rock. Okay? So it would be cool if you could just grab his hand and go out in the woods. That'd be fine. It's gonna be different. Dad needs to be. It would really facilitate things if you're the only one left. If dad had died in the woods and you're the only one left, then, yes, you'd be the. You'd be the go to. But if dad can make his way out there, bring a little boy with him, and little boy may not want to come. That's okay. He'll end up going. He'll end up going. He'll end up going.

[Brooke]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Does that make. Does that make sense?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Does it make you uncomfortable as mom. Are you cool with that?

[Brooke]

No. No, I'm very cool with that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. All right. All. Everything that's happening in your house is. Is as it should be. Your little boys. There's not something wrong with him forever.

[Brooke]

Okay, good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. He's. He's not. He's not ruined forever.

[Brooke]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's not somehow dysfunctional. He's going to have parent. He can develop fear over time if you'll never head back out.

[Brooke]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If he learns that is a place we never ever go ever again. It's the dark, scary house at the end of the block. He'll. He'll put that GPS pin in his nervous system. Here's a good example. I have a friend who's an adult who is an incredibly accomplished higher education executive. And when a storm comes, there's a tornado warning, he gets catatonic. It is wild. And he had a scary situation when he was a kid. Like they had to get in the. Get in the. In the bathtub, underneath. Underneath a mattress. You know, scary situation, like tornado hit, hit town. What didn't happen after that, I'm assuming, is that there wasn't conversations in the house. There wasn't norming. Like, my kids know, you just go to the basement, there's a storm coming. But they feel mom and dad acting quickly and with purpose but not panicked. And sometimes we go outside and watch a storm come in. When I know it's not going to be terrifying, right? So I don't want my kids to just to their bodies to shut off when it comes to weather. But there's, there's an appropriate response to things we got to do. We got to do these exercises to help your husband heal, get strong again. And man, there's some amazing things out in the woods. Not, I mean, especially peace for somebody whose mind is. Can be a little bit scattered.

[Alex]

So good on you, mom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I appreciate you calling in. I think, I think everything's gonna work out great for your family. I enjoy a good pity party for a couple of days after, after an injury. I do. And then it's time to get up and get after it. And that doesn't mean be a goofball. Doesn't mean be like, oh, I'm gonna snap into a swim. That's idiotic. It does mean I'm gonna do the things I need to do to be well and strong so that I can go do the things that keep me well and whole. It's awesome. Alex, thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Okay.

[Alex]

Before we get back to the show, let's talk about organifi. Good folks, health and wellness is an adventure and a journey, not a destination. You can never eat so great or work out so hard on one particular day that you're good for the rest of the month. Being well and healthy is something you work on every single day. And I'm not perfect by a long.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Shot, and probably you're not either.

[Alex]

Our health and wellness journeys have stops and starts and highs and lows, victories and setbacks. One way to make this health journey easier is to make consistently healthy choices.

[Dr. John Deloney]

About what we eat and drink.

[Alex]

That's why I love organifi because their whole food blends contain only the best plant based, certified organic, vegan, dairy free and soy free ingredients. Organifi makes it super easy to get the benefits. Just mix it with water or with your favorite healthy beverage and that's it. Their green juice is great in the morning and it's packed with superfoods that help boost your energy, calm your mind and support you throughout the day. Organifi red juice is loaded with antioxidants to help you with focus, stamina and recovery. And don't forget the pure juice and my favorite, the happy drops make Organifi part of your health and wellness journey. Go to Organifi.com DeLoney right now to save 20 at checkout with code DeLoney that's Organifi O R G-A-N-I-F I.com DeLoney and code DeLoney for 20% off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, home of the failing Cowboys, and talk to Brooke. What's up, Brooke?

[F]

Hello, John. Thank you for having me on your show. Super excited you said that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Awesome. You're like, thank you. I'm super excited.

[F]

Thank you for having me on your show. It means a lot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You got it. What's up?

[F]

So I guess, just briefly, my question is, how do I help my brother that is staying with us, be financially responsible? And I can kind of dive into that a little bit more if you would like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure, yeah. Tell me about it.

[F]

Okay. So a long story short, my brother moved in with us this last August, and he was kind of, like, at a rock bottom place, and my husband and I told him that he could come stay with us. And, you know, he was kind of struggling financially, and I believe that he struggles as an alcoholic and struggles with maybe, like, a gambling addiction. And, you know, we just kind of laid it out for him, you know, that we want him to get. Come stay with us here. And I guess.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, Brooke, talk right in your phone for me.

[F]

Yes. Can you hear me better?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, much better. Yeah. Okay.

[F]

Okay. And so he's staying with us. He has a job, and I guess our only obligation for him was that he had to stick to a budget. And we're not asking him to, you know, pay any bills or anything. We just wanted him to stick to a budget to be able to pay his debt off. But I think for us, it's kind of like I feel like having to mother him to stay on that budget, and I don't want to damage our relationship, and I don't want my husband and I's relationship to become impaired because, you know, I'm. I'm kind of like, in a hard situation. You know, my husband supports him being there, obviously, but it is a hard balance between the two.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure. So. Well, here's what you did. You put a boundary down.

[F]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so when you have a boundary, you have to have some sort of accountability tool.

[F]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For you to live here, you must do a budget. So the accountability tool means every week you have to show it to me.

[F]

And that's what we were doing. And so, like, last month, it was kind of derailed, and it just feels like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What does that mean, it was kind of derailed or your. Your brother spent a lot of money?

[F]

Yeah, he spent a lot of money that he didn't account. So we want to sit down and, like, say you have. Account for every dollar.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like, okay, that's different than I want you to have a. Keep a budget.

[F]

Okay, so. And I guess that's where I'm like, is that too. Is that like, a little bit too much? Like, we're. We're wanting him to sit down and go over his finances and account for every dollar, because this is kind of my demeanor behind it, too. Like, we're not asking you to pay any bills. You know, my husband and I both work. We have five kids. Our plate is, like, to the max. And so when you're, you know, stopping at the convenience store every day or you're eating out every day or you're buying stuff or you're buying vape, like, that to me is, like, not okay. And so I'm having a hard time, like, not trying to be his parent, but also holding him accountable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He didn't ask for your accountability.

[F]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I know that's hard to hear.

[F]

So how do I. How do I. How do I get myself out of this situation?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You. You for some reason to think you can save him, and he's trying to let you know, I don't want your saving.

[F]

I think you're totally right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I can't. I can't think of a more heartbreaking thing than a brother or a sister trying to save their sibling. He don't want your help. He wants. Just keep living his life. He wants you to bail him out. He wants you to feed him and give him free rent.

[F]

I'm. I have a passive personality, so how do I. It's really hard for me to sit down and say, hey, listen, brother. And this is what my husband's told me. He's like, hey, honey, like, I know you want to help him, but you have to. You have to let him go and figure it out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[F]

How do. How do I do that? Because this is kind of like, another thing I'm struggling with. My brother came to stay with us, and two days later, my husband lost his twin brother to suicide. And so we. He came to stay with us, and we're walking through that, and it's like, I just worry about him hitting rock bottom, which I know I can't be his savior. And you're right, but just totally hit the nail on the head.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it, like, give yourself some grace. You guys lost somebody so, so close. And my. My impulse is the same as yours. I want all my chickens real close to me. All of them real close. My kids will never know how Many times I get up and walk by their doors where they're sleeping. Yeah, they'll never know.

[F]

And I just naturally have that personality.

[Alex]

And so did you and your brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Was it pre tough growing up?

[F]

Yes, we had a tough childhood.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[F]

And yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it sounds like he's still got demons and he's figured out a couple of tools that quite honestly work. They numb those, they numb the pain.

[Jennifer]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you learned at a real young age, I'm gonna make sure everybody's okay because that'll keep me safe. And so hear me say, you didn't not keep your brother in law safe. That's not on you. And you can't extract the hurt from the other half of your, your husband's heart because he lost his twin brother. And so you can sit with him, but you can't make that okay. That's a hurt that, that you can't absolve him from. And you've been trying to take people's hurt from them your whole life. And your ding dong brother, who you love to the moon and back, is just choosing to burn his life down like a candle.

[F]

When I feel like he's only doing good because we, you know, we have our thumb on them. And I'm just like, I'm so. Just overwhelmed every day between being a wife and a mother and so many things. And I'm just like, I want him to do good and right, but I don't have the energy to exert on make, like, okay, did you do your budget today? Okay, like, you can't be spending money like, you know, so, like, how do I move forward? What's the next best thing? As I hear you say, like, what do I do to not sever the relationship, but also let him know that, okay, brother, like, I love you, but how do I sit down and like, have this conversation or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Did somebody leave you growing up?

[F]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Who left?

[F]

My grandmother raised me, so my mom and dad were never in the picture.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Will you do me a favor?

[F]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Will you take both of your shoulders and clench them up as tight as you can around your ears, real tight. And then count backwards from 3, 2, 1, and drop them. Okay. I don't want you to hear me. They left because something was going on with them, not because of you.

[F]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[F]

It took me a while to realize that. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you still think if your brother struggles with alcohol and he gets pissed off and leaves, that it's your fault. It's not. If there is a severing of the relationship, it's because he Chose to walk away.

[F]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Your husband's brother, very, very sick. Struggling deeply. He made a choice that he can't take back.

[F]

Yeah, that's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's not a relationship that you use. Ever. The one person you have never stopped to put both hands on the bathroom counter and look into their eyes and ask, what do you want? Is you. So the next right move is you being really, really honest with Brooke and asking, what do I need right now? And if the first thing that pops in your head is, I need my house back, I need this guy out of my house, then that's your answer. If your first response is, I need some help with the kids, awesome. Sit down with your husband and talk about hiring a college student to come by a couple hours a week just to play. If the first thought is, I miss my husband so much I can't breathe, then y'all figure that out, or, I need some me time. I wanna go back to school. I hate my job. I wanna give three of my kids back because five is too many. I don't know. I don't know what it is, right? But, like, I want you, for the first time, to write down a piece of paper. What do you want? What do you need? In counseling, there's a nerd word. We call it leakage. The stuff that you're hanging onto real tight will find a way out. And it usually happens at an inopportune time. Or you can, in a controlled burn, take the lid off and relieve some of that pressure intentionally. Does that make sense?

[F]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The second part of this is I think it would be really wise to sit down with your husband because, you know, you're in this. And I do this with my wife sometimes when I'm over my head emotionally, I'm a very emotional guy. I write everything down with the help of somebody that can see a situation clearer than me. And I will go have the direct, hard conversation with it written down. Brother, I'm acting like your mom. You don't want that. I don't want that. And I don't. I don't like checking up on you. You're a grown man. You don't need me to do that. I'm wanting this more than you want this. So here's the deal. In 60 days, I'm gonna need you to move out, find a place to live. Or in 30 days, I need you to find a place to live. I want you to be my brother. I don't need. I. I don't want you to be a sixth kid.

[Alex]

What are you kicking me out? What are you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, no, no. Let's just be honest. I'm not gonna check your budget every week. I'm not gonna get. I can't be checking up every time you buy something at the gas station, every time you're vaping out in the backyard. I. Like, this is awkward. You got 30 days. You got 60 days. And I'll be your biggest advocate. If you ever want help with budget, with money, with whatever, I'll be here. But let's call this what this is, okay? And then that's the best you can do, Brooke. And if he throws a fit and screams and yells and calls you, you're.

[Alex]

Leaving me, just like mom did or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dad did, then he is. He's showing you his true colors, and he's gonna head off. Or if he exhales and says, you're right, dude, thank you. You gave me two months of kind of a gap, a glitch in the matrix. Get my feet under me and I'll be on my way.

[Alex]

And I know it's easy to think.

[F]

You know, my husband has said, you know, the same thing, and so I think it just resonates. And I know, like, that's probably the best thing. It's just, you know, being that I feel like having that hard conversation of how I'm going to say that, not so much how he's maybe going to receive it, but I just feel wrong for doing that. That. But then again, I'm like, you know, my husband is. He's such a hard worker and does what it takes to provide every day, and I wanted my brother to get on his deep so that he could provide for his son. And it's just like, you know, I can't. I'm. I feel like I'm kind of punishing my husband, too, because he sacrifices so much for our family, and, you know, I just need him. I'm trying to make my brother have the same drive as my husband. And it's not that. It's not so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, Brooke, can I tell you what I really think?

[F]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think you're punishing, Brooke. I think, yeah, it's hard on your husband, but he married you. He loves you for every bit of the people pleaser you are, and he loves you for every bit of you you take in. Every stray dog and cat. He. He loves you for that. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it expensive? Yes. But he loves you for that. But you, Brooke, keep carrying around that, somehow you're going to be the person that keeps this thing duct Taped together because mom and dad didn't. And you don't have that kind of power.

[F]

And so it's funny you say that because, like, so many of our. My siblings have lived with me for various, you know, just getting on their feet, and I'm the person they call, and it's like I want it more than they do. And then I get myself in a hard situation because I pour so much into it. And then at the end of the day, you know, I'm the one who gets crapped on for a better word. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's. Right.

[Alex]

And here's the thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It goes back to that original thing I said. Mom and dad didn't leave because of you. They left because they had their own demons.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Somehow you don't think you're worth the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Life that you have now. You don't think you're worth this amazing husband. You don't think you're worth these beautiful five kids in this nice house you live in. And as long as you keep carrying that story around, you're going to keep letting in every stray cat that doesn't want to improve their life. Dude, anybody can come stay with me and my family if they're. If they want to turn the knob. People come stay with my family if they need a place to crash. But I'm not going to burn my house down for somebody that just wants a place to. To not have to deal with their responsibilities. And so I want you to consider. This is going to be a sharp turn for you. I want you to consider. What would you say to Brooke? How would you love Brooke if you were to knock on your door and you'd probably say something like, God, sister, come in here and rest. And if there was a bunch of hound dogs following her, you'd say, hey, get out of here. She needs a rest. She's working. She's got a house of five kids. She's got an amazing husband that she wants to spend time with. I want you to care about you at least as much.

[Alex]

And there's probably some things.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't want to speak this into your life, but there's probably some ways. Your husband's been trying to love you for years, and you won't let him because you don't think you're worth it.

[Alex]

I want you to go tell him you're sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let that poor man love you. Am I. Am I right? Ask him.

[F]

I don't know. Ask him. I will.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be wrong. Y'all can just Be like, that guy's an idiot. And y'all can say that together. That's great. I have a feeling he'll be like, man, I've been trying.

[F]

I think I'm going to ask him that question. I'm. I don't know the answer.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. The world needs more gentle spirits like you. And also, I think your gentle spirit is a very carefully crafted cover up for a very strong, strong. Knows what I want and knows how to survive scratching and clawing. Hope Field woman. And I want her kids to get to meet her. I want your husband to get to meet her because she's bad ass.

[F]

Thank you. I really appreciate the input. And I guess from here it's just having that hard conversation. And my husband and I, you know, we kind of talked about it and we were like, well, maybe we'll just give it till after the holidays and then, you know, or maybe tell him now that way he can, you know, prepare and save up as much as he can and, you know, be looking, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I challenge you one more time?

[F]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old's your oldest kid?

[F]

He's 14 this Friday.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. He has four Christmases left in your house. Where he's gone.

[F]

I know. My husband and I just said that last night.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's got four left. Let's don't take 25 of those as a, as a, as a walking on eggshells for a grown up brother who may throw a temper tantrum at any moment.

[F]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'd rather you give him $2,500 and say, we love you. Here's a down payment on an apartment.

[F]

My husband mentioned that too. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your husband sounds like the most genius guy who's ever.

[F]

He really is. He really is. He honestly is. And it's not that I don't respect, like what he says. It's just like I. Oh, he, he.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Married you because he loves himself a spreadsheet and the next right thing. And he married you because you have a heart that's so big, it's like oxygen for him. You're perfect for each other. And that also is going to be tension there. He's going to want to buy generic dog food and you're going to want to buy the dog food that like, I don't know, is blessed by some holy leader in some other country and it's. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's just your heart. And so it's going to be awesome. But yeah, I wouldn't burn five kids worth of a Christmas break dancing on eggshells. Or maybe you say, hey, we're gonna let you stay through Christmas or through December 15th. And for those of y'all listening, this is into the new year, but we're gonna let you stay through December 15, which is a month from now. But if there's any kind of xyz, if you smoke in the house again, if you vape out in the yard again, if you like any of those things, you gotta go. So you get to choose whether you stay here or not. But here's the rules for staying for the next 30 days.

[F]

Yeah. And then I guess that was where I struggled, too. Is like, you know, talking about holding them accountable, but not really holding them accountable. But, yes, I think I feel peace with telling them, you know, giving them that time frame, and it's just sitting down and having that hard conversation. And I love him being around. You know, I love him being there, but I just. I think it's time and necessary say.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Those words to him. I love it when you choose to be here. So for the next 30 days, choosing to be here looks like this. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And if you can tell them if I made this awkward by having this conversation. Now, I get that. If you feel awkward here in the house, now I get it. Here's 2,000 bucks if you want to go get an apartment now, everybody listening.

[Alex]

Do you have to give 2000?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, you don't have to. But if you're in a position to do it and it just helps, then I'm all for it. And this is not like you, get.

[Alex]

Out of my house right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's not that. Right. This is compassion. And this is also honesty. And this is you for the first time saying, okay, I got to put my oxygen mask on. Because in the hierarchy of importance, I got this husband that I looked at and said, till death was part. I made a covenant. I got these five kids that came into the world because of me. And then I've got this brother who's a grown adult who should be taking care of himself and his family, who's made choices up until now, did not. So we're going to go in that order of importance. Super, super honored that I got to talk to you today. And I'm grateful, grateful for your heart. Call anytime we can help. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you financial Peace University for free. And I want you to gift it to your brother. You can tell him you can stay here 30 days, but you got to watch all nine lessons, by the way, make all five of your kids Watch it. It'll be fun for them. Actually, they'll be. Some of them will be bored out of their mind, but your 14 year old will like it and they can watch this thing and they can begin to all have conversations and learn together. Maybe that'll work. Hang on the line here, we'll get you hooked up. We'll be right back.

[Alex]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, good folks, listen. We all have stories. We have the family and cultural stories that we were born into. We have the stories of the good and the challenging things that have happened to us. And we have the stories that we are constantly telling ourselves. We've got the stories of our past and the stories we have yet to write about our futures. And they're all powerful. And while you can't go back and change any of your old stories, the world is waiting to see what story you're going to write next. As we enter 2025, I want to encourage you to examine and even heal your old stories and be intentional about the new ones you're writing. And I'm not talking about goals that will be long gone by February. I'm talking about new stories that will change your life forever for the better. And if you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and begin writing new ones. Maybe think of your therapist as your editorial partner, helping you write new, better stories. If you're considering therapy, I want you to try calling my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Start writing a new story this month with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, we're back.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Kelly, you have your making fun of me face going.

[Kelly]

No, I was actually commenting on Keeler made a pretty bad joke yesterday and I was just commenting on it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Gosh, if people could hear Keeler's jokes.

[Kelly]

It was just a bad dad joke. He wasn't like a bad joke. It was just one of those like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But even Keel's bad jokes are fantastic.

[Kelly]

It's pretty good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So we were down there by your NASA station. If you could just like, we need to give him a microphone. He could just pitch in and make jokes the whole time. Be Great. I do have a microphone. I know, but you, like, don't want to get canceled and you value your job and blah, blah, blah. Half the things I say probably can go on the show.

[Kelly]

He's probably right about that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There you go. All right, so what you got?

[Alex]

You got an email, Kelly.

[Kelly]

All right, so for those that have listened to the show, that's right below this one in the feed, we had a caller who was struggling with his girlfriend's boyfriend. His. Her previous boyfriend had died by suicide.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Kelly]

And he was struggling by comparing himself to her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I remember this call. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

Well, for us, it just happened yesterday.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But that's.

[Kelly]

But that's still.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I remember. I remember this call.

[Kelly]

Yeah. So he sent in a lovely email and I wanted to read it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Awesome.

[Alex]

Oh, so he wrote it. He wrote the email 24 hours later.

[Kelly]

Yeah. Sent this to Taylor.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Gina.

[Kelly]

Okay, so says John. Even though we had a short conversation on the show today and I was extremely nervous, the advice you gave me was life changing in two particular. Two particular things. For one, you helped me flip the story I will be telling myself from now on of the insecure comparison, which is unfair to my girlfriend, to one of understanding that she saw me as someone that brings a light back to her life when it was dark for so long. After you said that, I instantly felt a sense of relief and almost happiness. It showed me that I am capable of being loved. Second, you talked about how this really has nothing to do with her late boyfriend or. And more or less has to do with my fear of vulnerability, which I will step into. Our conversation has lifted what felt like shackles that I had around me. And afterwards, I feel as if a deep rooted belief of not being worthy of love has been broken. And every time she tells me she loves me, I will take your advice and say to myself, I believe you. I tried to put these words together the best I can altogether. Thank you. You are a role model for me and your understanding of life's problems and their solutions is incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dude, good on that guy. What a great note. It's awesome. Thank you for sending that man. And I guess if he was sitting right with me, I would give him a. I'd give him a quick word of caution. Like, being vulnerable almost guarantees that you will get hurt, but it will also guarantee that you can be loved in a profound and deep way. And so it's both. And was that. Is it CS Lewis? It says that there's one way to never get hurt, and that is to never love or be loved. Right. And so it's both ant but good on him, man. What an amazing kid. Good on him. Cool. And I guess just one more thing I would pass along, Kelly. Like, that's just a good example of what kindness looks like. Maybe you could. Maybe you could try that one day. Be cool.

[Kelly]

You're doing so good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

2025.

[Kelly]

You were doing so good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's going to be kind in 2025. She's not. Love you guys.

[Alex]

Bye. Hey, what up? What up? Listen. The latest episode of my docu series United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app. Each episode follows a caller from my show on a 90 day journey to transform their life. You want to know the cool part? I personally walk alongside them throughout it all. This episode features Kelsey, whose battle with severe anxiety is putting her most important relationships at risk. And you can only watch this show on the Ramsey Network app. So make sure you download the app and dive in right now. And while you're there, you can also binge episodes of the Dr. John DeLoney show on Demand and other Ramsey Network shows like the Ramsey Show. And did I mention this app is free? Go ahead and download the Ramsey Network app right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Go.