Should We Stay Married for the Sake of Our Kids?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John DeLoney Show – "Should We Stay Married for the Sake of Our Kids?"

Release Date: December 18, 2024

Introduction

In this emotionally charged episode of The Dr. John DeLoney Show, host Dr. John DeLoney tackles the deeply personal and often heart-wrenching question: "Should we stay married for the sake of our kids?" Through real-life caller interactions, Dr. DeLoney provides insightful advice on navigating complex marital issues and mental health challenges, emphasizing the importance of personal well-being and authentic relationships for both parents and children.

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Caller Spotlight: Brittany's Marital Struggle

Background and Context

At [01:30], Brittany from Las Vegas reaches out to seek guidance on whether to remain in her marriage to benefit her four children. She paints a vivid picture of her 12-year marriage fraught with recurring cycles of her husband's pornography addiction and infidelity through social media. Over nine years, Brittany has endured a tumultuous relationship plagued by deceit, loss of trust, and emotional abuse.

Key Issues Discussed

1. Addiction and Betrayal

   Brittany shares the cyclical nature of her husband's addiction: "looking at other women's social media profiles... confessing over a few weeks" ([02:04]).

   Dr. DeLoney probes deeper, recognizing that pornography is a "distraction" masking deeper issues: "you have been a figurine in his action figure fantasy" ([06:23]).

2. Emotional Toll and Self-Worth

   Brittany expresses how her husband's unrealistic expectations and lack of self-confidence have eroded her self-respect: "I don't trust him. I've lost respect for him, which has made me not trust myself and lose respect for myself" ([04:12]).

3. Desire for Authentic Happiness vs. Stability for Children

   Torn between personal happiness and the perceived stability for her children, Brittany states, "I just want to be truly happy and feel safe... I don't feel like I emotionally can get back to that point in the marriage" ([13:06]).

Dr. DeLoney's Guidance

• Challenging the Status Quo

  Dr. DeLoney encourages Brittany to reassess the premise of staying together solely for the children, asserting that often, neither staying nor divorcing is the optimal choice: "The best thing is, to rebuild something totally new" ([08:52]).

• Ownership and Personal Agency

  Emphasizing personal empowerment, he advises Brittany to "stand up and throw your shoulders back and say, I am ending this marriage" ([16:28]).

• Rebuilding Trust and Peace

  Dr. DeLoney suggests practical steps for rebuilding trust, such as defining what "peace" looks like in her home: "Here's what peace looks like and feels like" ([17:45]).

Notable Quotes

• "You deserve to not have 10 years of somebody cheat on me... you deserve to not be an action figure in somebody's fantasy life." – Brittany ([10:38])

• "The best thing is, is to rebuild something totally new." – Dr. John DeLoney ([08:52])

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Caller Spotlight: Lynn's Battle with Anxiety Post-Disaster

Background and Context

Later in the episode, at [32:06], Lynn from Asheville, North Carolina, calls in to discuss her struggles with anxiety and panic attacks following a regional disaster. Although her immediate family was spared significant harm, the traumatic experience has left her grappling with a constant feeling of impending doom and survivor's guilt.

Key Issues Discussed

1. Traumatic Experience and Grief

   Lynn recounts the loss of her grandfather during the disaster: "We were pretty much cut off... I think a huge part of the anxiety that I'm facing now is if this happens again" ([34:03]).

2. Isolation and Survivor's Guilt

   The isolation during the disaster exacerbated her anxiety: "There was no getting to mom and Dad's house... It was completely cut off from civilization" ([38:16]).

3. Ongoing Struggles with Peace and Safety

   Lynn expresses concerns about future disasters and the lingering effects on her mental health: "I just feel like if this happens again... we could not get in touch with pediatricians" ([38:30]).

Dr. DeLoney's Guidance

• Embracing Grief and Processing Loss

  Dr. DeLoney advises Lynn to fully acknowledge and process her grief instead of resisting it: "I'm going to make peace with your body" ([32:25]).

• Community and Shared Healing

  He emphasizes the importance of communal support in healing, suggesting, "Tell your husband to call me too. Happy to talk to him as well" ([17:45]).

• Symbolic Acts for Emotional Release

  Dr. DeLoney encourages creative outlets for processing trauma, such as writing letters to symbolize emotional release: "I want you to write a letter to the storm" ([40:16]).

Notable Quotes

• "Grief demands a witness. You can't just get in your house and figure this out by yourself." – Dr. John DeLoney ([37:16])

• "There's a weird feeling... an unmooring feeling when you're in the 21st century surrounded by cars and air conditioners, and your stomach drops and you're like, oh, we're on our own." – Lynn ([38:16])

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Concluding Insights

Throughout the episode, Dr. DeLoney underscores the importance of personal well-being over societal expectations. Whether it's a struggling marriage or coping with post-disaster anxiety, the common thread is the need for individuals to prioritize their mental and emotional health. Dr. DeLoney empowers his callers to make difficult but necessary choices for their happiness and safety, advocating for authenticity and self-respect as foundations for a healthy family environment.

Final Thoughts

The Dr. John DeLoney Show provides a compassionate and practical approach to some of life's most challenging dilemmas. By addressing the intricacies of marital strife and the enduring impact of trauma, Dr. DeLoney offers listeners valuable tools and perspectives to navigate their personal journeys toward healing and fulfillment.

Transcript

[Brittany]

Instead of getting divorced, would staying married and being friends with my husband be helpful or more harmful to our four children?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've come to hate that question. So tell me more. That question is very surface y. So I feel like there's something you're not telling me. Like there's a thing beneath the thing. What am I missing here? What up? What's going on? This is John, Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so glad that you're with us. So glad, man. Every day I wake up and I'm like, man, I'm running a scam called a podcast and a YouTube show. It's so great that you're with us and helping me with my scam. We're talking about your mental and emotional health. We're talking about your relationships. For 20 years, I've been sitting in the messy lives of hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move. And now I get to do it on the Internet with all of you. So grateful that you're with us. If you'll take one second real quick and just stop, collaborate and hit subscribe wherever you happen to be. It makes a huge difference. We're so close to the million subscriber mark. And man, every one of you guys, men and women who are out there, who hit the subscribe button makes a huge difference. So thank you so, so much. All right, let's roll out to Las Vegas, Nevada, home of the great Michael Easter. And we're going to talk to Brittany. What's up, Brittany?

[Brittany]

Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm so excited to talk to you today. So my question for you today is, instead of getting divorced, would staying married and being friends with my husband be helpful or more harmful to our four children?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hmm. I've come to hate that question. So tell me more and, and I'll explain. And it's not you. They don't hate you. I think you're. Wonderful to meet you, Brandy.

[Brittany]

Brandy, nice to meet you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think, I think there's. That question is very surfacy. So walk me through what's going on in your world.

[Brittany]

Okay, so me and my husband, we've been married for 12 years. Right after I gave birth to our first child, my husband found himself addicted to pornography and looking at other women's social media profiles. So he would kind of start a cycle of, um, looking at that for about a year and then he would secretly stop for a year and then he would do like a trickle down confession to me over a few weeks. So we did that cycle like every year for nine years. So just a lot of loss of trust and stuff over that time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you're also like one second, that's always symptomatic. So that also means you're married to somebody who is a shell of themselves or who is. Doesn't like the skin he inhabits. Right?

[Brittany]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about that guy.

[Brittany]

Yeah. Yeah. So that guy. That guy, I think, never felt like he was good enough. He felt like all he just needed to provide to create this multi million dollar financial estate for him and his family and that all that mattered was money. And I needed just to be like the housewife for him and be perfect so that he could go do all the house or the finance stuff. And then when I wasn't perfect, surprise, because we had four kids in six years and I was tired. And not making dinners every night really triggered him in this perfect world that he wanted. And I think he wasn't confident in himself either, very sexually. And I just think overall he just wasn't happy of who he was. But instead of taking all the blame, he would just put it on me. We kind of figured that out through therapy, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So yeah, you got four years, a decade plus. So including the time y'all dated. So you're going on a decade and a half. Ish. Right?

[Brittany]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And y'all are considering calling it. Tell me about that.

[Brittany]

So this last time that he came and confessed of what he'd been looking at and stuff, I asked him if he could just move out. I needed some physical space. My body was like fight or flight mode. I was breaking out in rashes and I couldn't sleep at night. I just. My body just needed some, like, physical separation from him. And it was. And that was really good. I was able to just like, come back down to myself. And I just kind of realized I don't. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. And I felt like at that time I was like, I think I deserve to be treated a little bit better than this. And I don't want my daughters to settle, to be treated not like a queen. And so I. I told him that, you know, after we've been doing therapy for a while, I just, I. I just don't. I don't trust him. And I don't. I've lost respect for him, which has made me not trust myself and lose respect for myself because I never know he's telling the truth or if he's not. And I just emotionally, I can't get back there with him. He's been doing great for three years. He's made so many changes. He's become the man I always wanted him to be. And I'm so proud of him and he's my best friend, but I just don't feel like I emotionally can get back to that point in the marriage with him. It just feels like there's. There's just been too much deceit and hurt and emotional hurt from things he said. And so I just said, I want a divorce. And he said, over my dead body. I'm not doing that. And I said, okay, I love to stay married and be friends and raise the kids. And he said, that's a terrible thing to do to our children. And so we're just kind of stuck in this place where we don't know where to go from here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I feel like pornography is a distraction here. And I feel like because it's sexualized and because it's a form of betrayal, it's easy to put everything on top of that. But you've been married to a guy that you have been a figurine in his action figure fantasy.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You'll have never truly been a partnership. And if I hear you correctly, so tell me if I'm wrong. Three years ago, he said enough is enough. And he stopped treating you as a figurine. And he started getting to the bottom of why he was hurting so much. And you stayed. And in fact, y'all made another kid together. And he has, in your exact words, become the man of your dreams. But now you're choosing to not re. Engage.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That doesn't sound like. Because it sounds like he has for three years, 36 months. It sounds like he has healed the trust. Sounds like he is doing the things. He's becoming the husband that you fantasized him becoming. The words, I can't get there. I don't think that's true. You can choose to not get there. And in a strange twist, you can choose to leave your marriage. You can make that choice. You're a grown up. But the phrase I just can't get there, I don't buy it. Did something happen recently for you to call? Or is it just at the end of three years you're just like, nah.

[Brittany]

Or just every few weeks just getting in a fight of. He says that, okay, let's just stay married and be friends. Like, I want. I want you and my. And the kids in my life. And I'm like, great. And then things are going great and we're Great. Best friends. We have a lot of fun together. And. And then after a few weeks he blows up and says a lot of mean things. And. And then the next day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well then don't say he's the man of your dreams now because that's not true.

[Brittany]

He's 90%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And. And the whole, like, my daughters deserve to be treated as queen. I don't buy that either. Your daughters deserve to have somebody that they co. Create a world with together and yes. Treated right and supported and loved and provided for and also equally heard and equally have a seat at the table. Like all of that stuff, Right?

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the reason. I don't like the reason, like the. Should we stay together for the kids or is it better just to get divorced? That. That presupposes a foregone conclusion. One or both of us have quit the marriage. We're done. So is it better for us to just stay together? Done. Or is it better for us to get divorced? My answer to that is always neither. The best thing is, is to rebuild something totally new. So that's best choice. The next choice. No teaching your kids that we're just going to be friends and we're going to have people on the side and we're going to have like, that's never a good option.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is going to be about ego and this is going to be about fantasy and this is going to be about blowing up pictures. This is going to be about blame. This is going to be about splitting estates. It's going to be a big old mess.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So no, none of this will be, quote, unquote, good for your kids. I'd say an environment where kids feel that two. The two adults in our house are acting very childish.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Brittany]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so in a perfect world, y'all swipe the deck clean if you're saying, I don't want to do that anymore or we've swiped the debt clean three times, four times, five times, and he keeps blowing his side of the table up. And so I'm going to end this marriage. Own that step. I just don't like the. Because our culture says words like, well, this marriage just ran its course. I just don't buy that. I just can't get back there. I'm going to choose to not do those things. I'm going to choose that. And that's okay. Make your choice. But I just want. I want it to be something that everybody owns, not this inevitable. Well, just is what it is what it is. You get what I'm saying?

[Brittany]

Yeah. Yep, totally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you standing tall and saying I deserve to not have 10 years of somebody cheat on me. I deserve 10 years of not being gaslit and yelled and screamed at in my own house. I deserve to not be a action figure in somebody's fantasy life where they're gonna have all this money and I'm gonna be a trophy and oh my gosh, my body changed because I have four kids. Four of your kids, by the way. And now suddenly I'm less than. I'm not good. I'm worth less. So I feel like there's something you're not telling me. Like there's a thing beneath the thing. What am I missing here?

[Brittany]

No, it just kind of feels like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have somebody. Do you have somebody new?

[Brittany]

No. No, no, no, no. Not at all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Brittany]

I'm so tired.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Does. Does. Does. Does his changes alter the dynamic of your marriage to a point where you feel uncomfortable?

[Brittany]

It feels uncomfortable because he's being so nice and so giving and wanting to serve me and everything. And it makes me feel really uncomfortable because he's never done that. So it's like, wait, what's going to.

[Lynn]

Be the ulterior motive?

[Brittany]

Like what? Like, what's he gonna come at later tonight and be like, I freaking did the dishes, so whatever, you know, And. And he doesn't now. But it just. Because that's how it was for so long, it's still feels like it. And it feels like if I just forgive and we move on and create a happy life, it feels kind of like a slap in the face to myself. It feels like I'm like, you idiot, you got treated like garbage and you're just like, said, it's okay, let's keep moving on. And it's like, it's been really hard for me to get past that of being like, no, like, stand up for yourself and don't, like, you deserve. I don't know. I don't know how to explain.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It sounds like you have identified forgiveness and new growth as you lost as a one loss.

[Brittany]

Yeah, it does feel like that, which is awful. Like it's not a win or lose thing at all. I don't know why it feels like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I can imagine his. His side. He's treated you bad for 5, 6, 7, 9 years, and finally his whole world blows up. And he's like, I'm ready to make the changes. And he's trying to follow the path you cut for him. And again, I don't want to defend the guy. I don't know the Guy. But it sounds like y'all made a plan together. Y'all been going to therapy for three years, and you made a plan, and he's following the plan, and now you don't like the kindness. Tell me what. Tell me what you really want.

[Brittany]

I. I just want to, like, be truly happy and feel safe and not feel on guard, and I just. I just do with him, and I. I don't know how to not feel that anymore, to feel like I can just fully rest in him. Phil. Yeah. I don't. I just feel like I'm always on guard, and I'm always so tense and anxious and just, like, waiting for the. The ball to drop, and it hasn't. And. And he's proved that, and. But it just, like. Okay, but it will. When will that be? And so here's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the scary thing. Here's the scary thing. Number one, I just want to tell you I think you're brave. I think you've been working hard, and if. If. If your. Your story is to be trusted and always trust people who call the show. Not always. Most of the time, he's been working his butt off. Too fair.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. The only way you ever find out if this is for real is if you risk getting hurt again. Here's what. Here's why I'm pushing around the edges. I don't. I don't hear somebody that wants to be divorced. I hear somebody that's so freaking tired of not having their home be a place of peace. Be fully honest with me. What is it that still makes you feel unsafe? Does your gut know that he's still cheating on you?

[Brittany]

I feel like my gut thinks that he's not, but my brain is like, you idiot, he lied for 10 years. You can't trust what you think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you laid out on a map for him the things that you still need to do to make sure trust is secure?

[Brittany]

Yeah. I mean, he's deleted all his social media and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you look at his phone?

[Brittany]

Occasionally. But I don't like doing that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know you don't. None of us like doing the things that we got to do to rebuild trust. It's one of the worst things. But I'm asking you. What. What. What would it take to rebuild trust? What's the road map there?

[Brittany]

I mean, I think it's just more time. It's just consistency.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you don't feel like he has that right now or 90% of it. And then he gets upset and frustrated because he's working so hard and it's just not enough.

[Brittany]

Yeah. No, he does. He, he. That's why I feel so bad is he is working so hard and I just wish that I could get. Get that trust back right like that. And it's just. I don't know exactly how because he's done and changed and done all the things that I've asked him to, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know the ins and outs. And you and I could talk for a couple of hours on what you've endured over the last 10 years. Okay.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I can't make the call for you. If you choose to end your marriage, I want you to stand up and throw your shoulders back and say, I am ending this marriage. Take ownership. Okay.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you listen to the words you just said, and you said, no, no, no, I think we can make something beautiful. And you've got 12 months, 24 months, 36 months of a changed guy. And. And I, I say this with all respect. I would not do this show if I didn't believe in redemption.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I know that's easy to be like, they never change. I would not do this show if I didn't think people could change. So 36 months, three years. Okay. I think there's time for a symbolic moment. What I mean by that is you write him a letter that says, I'm going all in again and if you hurt me, you're going to kill me. And then you begin to practice peace. And don't lose sight of your gut and don't lose sight of the things that you need to feel trust in your own home to feel peace. But I think you all have been solving for pornography. You've been solving for friendship. You've been solving for. I did the dishes so we have to have sex. You've been solving for. You need to go to the gym. You're not. You like, you need to tighten your body back up after four. Like you've been dealing with all that crap.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Beneath that, I want you to begin to solve for peace what must be true for me to go into my own home and drop my shoulders. I know I'm a stay at home mom. We are going to have a house cleaner because I need some help. I know I'm a stay at home mom. I'm going to hire two high school kids to come over and play with the kids Monday through Friday because I need human interaction with adults. I'm going crazy. I'm lonely. So here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to get off the phone and say, well, this man told me I have to fill in the blank. I want you to hear the opposite. This man told me to get off the phone and I'm finally going to exhale in my own house again.

[Brittany]

Yeah, that sounds great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For the first time, I'm going to stop trying to moderate his behavior like I'm his mom. I am going to begin to solve for peace in my house. Here's what peace looks like and feels like. Brittany, you call anytime. Tell your husband to call me too. Happy to talk to him as well. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, it's that time of year when it's getting a little colder, it's getting dark earlier, and sometimes we just want to stay in and get cozy. For me, my perfect night at home is something we call bed pile. It's so cozy when my whole family gets under some blankets. We get around the fire and we either read some books out loud or we watch a movie together. Whatever your perfect night in looks like therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, replenish your energy and take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of the year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapists. You can talk with your therapist just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney Christmas time is here. Parties, buying things. Being sad that no one bought you anything. Travel. All of it. There's so much going on that we can forget to set aside time for what's truly important. And the good news is that Hallow is here to keep you on track with your spiritual priorities this crazy season. Hallow is the world's number one prayer and meditation app. I use it every day and I love it. And right now, their Advent Pray 25 challenge called for God so Love the World is in full effect. Plus they've got book studies led by Bear Grylls and Jonathan Roomie Prayer Guides, a Bible study on the Book of Ephesians, Kids Advent Programming and more. And if that's not enough, you can join Hallow's 12 Days of Christmas music right now. Good. Folks, this season can be an amazing time to encounter God's love and find the true joy of Christmas. And Hallow wants you to experience all of this. So they're giving you three months for free when you sign up right [e-mail] DeLoney you can enjoy this fantastic prayer challenge and all of the rest right now. Three months for free. Hallow.com deloney all right, let's go out to Quebec, Canada. Hey. And talk to Lynn. What's up, Lynn?

[Katie]

So my question is how do I fully commit to something academically for the first time?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are you trying to commit to?

[Katie]

University. But basically I've just had a lot of trouble with trying to find my career path. You know, I'm 26 and I've kind of started and quit a lot of things and I just really want to follow through this time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does that mean?

[Katie]

I don't know. I've been listening to the show for like a year and I've been waiting to hear someone with a question similar to mine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Katie]

And it hasn't come up, but I have heard spouses of people like me talking and they're complaining about how sort of, you know, their spouse doesn't have any dreams or ambitions and they're just kind of floating. So, yeah, that's kind of how I feel, how I am right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you don't know where you want to go and you don't know what you want to do and you don't. More importantly, again, I think like finding your passion, I think that's idiotic. That's a, that's a terrible thing to start out with. I think a, a better thing to do is to seek out who can I help, who can I serve, and if it is, I can be the best waiter for exhausted families after 6:00pm I'm going to do that while I figure out what's going on. Or I want to be a therapist or I want to build bridges or I want to like. I called the guy yesterday to fix the gutters on my house. Dude was amazing. He's, he's on time. He said, I'll get you a quote bus afternoon. He got me a quote by this afternoon. It was a fair quote. Like, that dude's giving me a lot of peace at my house. He's taking care of my largest investment, which is my home. Right. So whatever, whatever it is, you, you, whoever it is, you want to help is a good driver. I would not spend the money on university to stumble around and quote, unquote, find your path.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I think you can find yourself in a whole bunch of debt. You can find yourself with a whole bunch of credits and be like, yeah, stupid.

[Katie]

Yeah. That's also kind of a big fear. And why I haven't really started anything yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what do you love.

[Katie]

Kids? I've been a nanny for six years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Katie]

And so I'm planning on taking child studies and there's quite a few things I can do with that. I think it's just more the fear of school and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why don't you want to be a nanny anymore?

[Katie]

I really enjoy it. I think it's just the economy right now is kind of making it tough. I can't really find and keep a job at this point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can't find a job or you can't keep. You mean you keep not showing up or doing a good job or people have to let you go because they don't have the money to keep paying a nanny?

[Katie]

No, I've been doing a great job. I've just been let go three times this year. So it's time to move on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah. Good call. And dude, so it sounds like you've got a path. What are you nervous about?

[Katie]

I don't know. I've never, like, growing up, I never saw myself going to college, university. It's not really something that anybody in my family ever really had money for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Katie]

And I. Yeah, I never, you know, when kids in high school were talking about, I just never pictured myself there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you know that one of the people that was my dissertation advisor, one of my first ones for my first PhD person was. Was let go. And the person who became my advisor told me that. And she was an amazing woman, Dr. Jacob. She's just awesome. But she told me that she was given a list of students and mine was at the top of them of students who wouldn't make it, would never finish. Flighty, just kind of all over the place, not going to do it. Did you know I was at the top of that list that they. That they handed her?

[Katie]

Yeah, we found similar.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Lynn. I didn't see it either, man. And I ended up with not one, but two PhDs. And now I help a whole bunch of people after spending my whole life trying to avoid the Internet. So here's. Here's the thing that has given me life. And you and I do. We sound very similar. Okay. By the time I was 26, I had multiple jobs and they were good jobs. They were careers for people. And I was going from thing to thing to thing. But here's, here's what always was the North Star. I liked helping students, I like helping people. And if you love being with kids, then think of university not as I'm going to university, think of university as I'm going to go get some concrete skills how I can better help young people.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I want to serve kids. I want to be there for them. I want to teach moms how to do that job well. And maybe I'll open a daycare, maybe I'll work at a daycare. Maybe I'll become a child psychologist one day. Maybe I'll have a YouTube show one day. But like, the thing that has given me peace throughout my life is to follow the next right thing. And if you've been laid off three times because of the economy, people think, say, man, you are amazing. I just can't afford you right now. I'm so sorry. And then somebody gobble snaps you up and they're like, oh, thank God we, we got Lynn. And then they have to let you go because they get, or their hours get cut or whatever. You're so wise to not just keep banging your head on, on the like, oh, what you're doing the next right thing. I'm going to go get some skills. And maybe you work with a different demographic so you're not, you're not a nanny in somebody's house, but you're working at like a low income daycare and you're getting some skills with a different set of people who need some help.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you get what I'm, you get what I'm saying? I think you're on the right path.

[Katie]

Yeah. I think I'm just lacking the confidence for some reason.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Here's what, here's what sucks about confidence. You have to go through it to get it. And that's probably the greatest lie of your generation, is that confidence is something that somebody else can give you that you can go use in the world. Confidence can only be found inside your chest after you've done a thing. So if you want to get confidence, and by the way, I can. I just by listening to you, you've been told you can't your whole life, haven't you?

[Katie]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your whole freaking life. And yet you keep showing up to work and you keep doing a good job and people are telling you no, you can and you can and you can. And you're beginning to go, dude, I think I can. And you're at war with those voices because the voices, those stories that people make up about you and they told you all your life, over time, they become the stories you tell yourself and the stories you've been telling yourself about. I'm just not that kind of person. I'm just not a university kind of person. I don't need to do that. I'm. I'm just like a. I'm just a nanny. It's all I'm ever going to be is crashing into people who are paying you. Hey, I trust you to be with my kids when I'm gone. You do a great job. And so you got two competing stories. And the only way to find out the truth is take the next right step. So if you're my. If you're my daughter, if you were my sister, if you were a close friend of mine, I would tell you two things. I would tell you to go get a job at a local daycare center if you can, even if it's way less than you normally make, because you are still in the skills acquisition phase. You're building confidence not just because you can deal with wealthy people's kids. You can work with anybody's kids with any kind of struggles. And you can only learn how to do that by just going to do it. So I'm going to take long hours. I'm going to work really hard, and I'm going to start taking some university classes so I can get some credence. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of own your past, change your future. It's. It's your arc. I wrote that book for you. I'm going to give it you a free copy of it. All right. But go get a job. Go get a 8 to 5 job clocking in, making half of what you've been making, a third of what you've been making to learn some new skills. You're still in the investment phase. And go take a couple of classes on child studies. Get something that will lead to a certification. Not just mindless family stud. Like that's going to lead you to a certification that you can use in the marketplace. Go pick up those skills. Kids are gonna be lucky that you did. We'll be right back. Hey, folks, colder weather is here, and that means I'm wearing more flannel shirts and more denim shirts from Poncho, the world's best performance shirts for men in the. In. In the universe. Poncho shirts are all great and their flannels and Their faded denim shirts are my favorites. I love poncho flannels and denims because they're soft yet super durable. You can't destroy them. I have tried and they have a little bit of stretch, they move with you and they dry quickly and they have slim and regular fits for different body types. Listen, poncho shirts make great gifts for the men in your family this holiday season. So head to ponchooutdoors.com and check out all of their styles. And right now use Code Deloney show at checkout and get a gift with every purchase of a button down shirt. That's ponchooutdoors.com code Deloney show. All right, hey, listen, I'm excited to share 3 major updates I'm my shows is put out by the Ramsey Network and there is a new Ramsey Network app. So first, the newest episode of my docu series United States of Anxiety is available. It's available exclusively in the Ramsey Network app and it follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives. And I personally walk alongside them. Everybody always wonders, like, does this stuff actually work over time? So this is that show. It's just like calling my bluff. I walk with somebody for 90 days, give them homework assignments. It's the show lived out over three months and we watch people transform and it's amazing. And my full show is now in video. It's on video in the app. And the episodes of the Dr. John DeLoney show, if you just can't wait, you just can't wait. They're now available a week early in the Ramsey Network app. So you can get get everything early, exclusive and for free. Click on the link, click on the link in the show notes and you can download the Ramsey Network app today. All right, let's go out to Asheville, North Carolina and talk to Katie. Hey, Katie, what's up?

[Lynn]

Yeah, so my question is, is how do you cope with anxiety and panic attacks while still processing grief in a constant impending feeling of doom after going through a regional national disaster?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man. Your body's telling you the truth. You make peace with your body.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did you lose everything?

[Lynn]

Thankfully, I did not. We had some minor damage at my home. A lot of damage in our neighborhood, but our home and my immediate family is safe. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So have you sat out in the front yard, look around and ask why me?

[Lynn]

Yes and no. I think I've kind of been through a lot in the past and I've kind of come to terms with it like I'm not special or above bad things happening to me personally. And it's kind of a part of life. Things happen. But I know that's definitely being felt by a lot of people in my area and is definitely something that can still definitely be a struggle day in and day out, seeing the suffering around consistently.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I think the first thing I want you to do is to stop going to war with your body.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You should feel anxious for a season.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your whole. Your whole city is gone.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That beautiful downtown district, one of my favorite places in the United States. It's gone. Doesn't exist anymore.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your body should be anxious. A show just released yesterday. When we're recording this release. Yeah. Monday with the great David Kessler. It's a two part series and I want you to listen to that.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The thing that most people skip in this process is grief.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just being sad.

[Lynn]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think the grief aspect. I'm glad you mentioned that part, because I did. My grandfather did pass away in the middle of the storm.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good. Gosh. Well, slow down. Hold on, hold on. Start with that first. What's his name?

[Brittany]

Sorry?

[Lynn]

His name was William. Yeah. Good guy and very good guy. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How did he pass away?

[Lynn]

They put cardiac arrest on his death certificate. Induced, probably stress from the storm. He was in the between. Like where he lived was between two of the massive landslides you probably will hear about on the news. So we were actually not able to access him at all to find out if he was okay. And his wife during the storm, I was able to talk to someone via like a starlink during the whole mess of things in the first few days. And someone on foot got to his house to confirm that him and his wife were safe. And then that night we got a phone call via satellite phone from first responders that he had gone into stress, cardiac arrest and had passed. So that grief side of things is like when the panic attack really started. I think just not knowing how to process the loss of a grandparent on top of knowing that not even getting up to his house at the time was possible. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He didn't pass away because of you.

[Lynn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's not a thing you could have done.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And I know you're in great shape and you're a good runner and you're probably a little bit of a. Of an Asheville prepper, like they all are in Asheville, which I love them for it.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happened is your community got hit by a bomb.

[Lynn]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's not a plan for when a meteorite hits. And that's what happened to y'all.

[Lynn]

That's what it feels like. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's exactly what happened. Okay.

[Lynn]

Yeah. I think we're having a hard time coming to terms with that. We're kind of in denial.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. And most planners are. Yeah. And the people I know in Asheville. I know there's an extraordinary, just magical arts district in Asheville, but my friends who live there. Yeah. In an ironic twist of fate, picked Asheville because it's. It feels disconnected from the world.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is our haven away from all you crazy people.

[Lynn]

It's a pretty great place.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is, but it's not supposed to happen there.

[Lynn]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Lynn]

It's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Lynn]

They're supposed to protect you from storms.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. That's why we moved here, so the y'all suckers would have the storms. Here's. I don't want you to think about managing this.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't want you to think about processing this.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to think about just being real sad.

[Brittany]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You lost your granddad.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In his final moments, were protecting your grandmother.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What an awesome guy.

[Lynn]

Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to process. I lost my city. I lost my town. I lost vibrancy. I lost the heartbeat.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of a magical little mountain community.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're not going to manage that. Yeah. We're not going to process this. We're going to be really sad.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And some of that might be. I'm going to write my granddad a letter.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell him what he meant to me, how much I loved him. If I'm feeling real gangster, I'm going to read it to my grandmother and to my mom and my dad. If I'm. If I'm real, real gangster. Everybody in my family is going to write granddad a letter, and we're all going to read them to each other.

[Katie]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As David Kessler says, grief demands a witness. You can't just get in your house and figure this out by yourself.

[Lynn]

Yeah. And I think that's one of the tricky parts of all of this, was that in the initial week or two that I didn't have power or cell service, there was no getting to mom and Dad's house. There was no getting to Granddad's house. There was no contacting family members.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Lynn]

There was. It was kind of very isolating, kind of very.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was completely cut off from civilization. Yeah. Right.

[Lynn]

We were pretty much cut off. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. And there's a weird feeling. There's a Strain. I grew up in Houston, where there's hurricanes and things go like, right. There is a unmooring feeling when you're in the 21st century surrounded by cars and air conditioners, and you. Your stomach drops and you're like, oh, we're on our own.

[Lynn]

Yeah. We were basically an island in the section of town that I live in. Culverts were at our road for our neighborhood was out. It was completely inaccessible. I mean, I have two small kids, and I think a huge part of the anxiety that I'm facing now is if this happens again. Like, we could not get in touch with pediatricians. We could not get emergency care. And thank God we were okay in that moment, but not everybody was. And there's also, like, a significant amount of survivor's guilt. That's right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what I talk about. You going out in the front yard and looking around and being like, why me? Why did we make it right?

[Lynn]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what most people never talk about, and it's not culturally cool to talk about. And again, David Kessler talks about in that episode. I want you to go check it out. Definitely is post traumatic growth.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We don't realize on this side of the hurt how much stronger we can be on the other side. If we will sit in the sadness, we will honor the grief. We won't go to war with our bodies trying not to feel anxious and masking anxiety with pills and drugs and running. And all we're gonna do, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna be sad. I'm gonna be heartbroken. And there's something powerful about recognizing I thought I had every variable under control, and I didn't realize how tightly I was gripping the world.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

At any moment, it can rain and just not stop raining, and my kids can't see a dot. And here's the thing that happens. Your hands open up.

[Lynn]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Some people will respond to this by tightening even more every variable in their life, and they will suffocate themselves to death.

[Brittany]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Others will open their hands and say, I'm going to do the next right thing. I want you to write a letter to the storm.

[Lynn]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want you to acknowledge what that storm took from you, how indiscriminate her damage was.

[Lynn]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then I want you to let that storm know, here's who I'm going to become as a mom, as a wife, as a citizen of this community. Here's what you've unleashed in me in my house.

[Brittany]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Lynn]

Yeah, Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you can get a couple of Your weird Asheville friends. My favorite people in the world. If you can get a couple of your weird Asheville friends, I want you all to all write letters to storms. And by the way, if you're in Nebraska, give me write a letter to storm Asheville people. Y'all understand writing letters to storms. I know. I want you to write letters to storms and I want you to read them to each other. I want you all to process this. I say process. I want you all to be in this together. Tell the stories. Tell the stories and put a new picture in your head about what's going to be. My heart's broken for your family and the loss of your life with your granddad. What an amazing guy who is protecting people till the end. Thanks for the call, sister. We'll be right back. All right, good folks, it's time to talk about Cozy Earth. The holidays are coming in hot and there's buying things, traveling and the little drummer boy on repeat. And more than ever at this time of year, your physical and mental health and your relational health is a little bit tough. And you need to take a break from the madness and create a peaceful sleep and wind down environment. I call it my sleep sanctuary. And for me and my family, a big part of our sleep sanctuary includes products from Cozy Earth. Their bed sheets are amazing. They're made from viscose from bamboo, so they're smooth as silk and tough as iron. My wife is in love with Cozy Earth's long sleeved bamboo pajama set. And I love their cityscape hoodies and crew necks that I wear around the house before bedtime. And I even go out with them. They come in men's, women's and kids sizes. And also recently I got this giant weighted Cozy Earth blanket and my whole family has been piling underneath it to watch a movie. And it's amazing. Don't forget, during gift giving season, Cozy earth offers a 10 year warranty on all of their bedding. So when you find yourself in the middle of the holiday chaos in the Pahrumpa Pum, establish your peaceful sleep sanctuary with help from Cozy earth. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code deloney for an exclusive discount of up to 40% off. That's cozyearth.com deloney and if you get a post purchase survey say that you heard about Cozy Earth on this show. All right, we are back. All right, Kelly, you got a email, an Internet communication they call it.

[Ashley]

Yes, got this actually while we were doing the show. This is from Ashley In California. She says, hello, Dr. John and team. I wanted to say thank you for the amazing David Kessler interview.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

God, the guy's so good, man.

[Ashley]

Yep. I know it's just the first half, but I took notes as you suggested, and I have found it so inspiring. Even though I am not in grief now, I think all of the moments I've been in deep grief and recognize that I'll be there again in the future is just inevitable. I have a whiteboard in my kitchen and wrote some of his quotes on it that really inspired me. Thank you for everything you and everyone on the Ramsey team does. You're truly changing lives. That's something I believe as humans, we all hope to do, even in the smallest way, and you help do that. We're also going to post a picture on YouTube of the board.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's cool. She sent it in. Very cool.

[Ashley]

Yeah, it's got make this moment count. It's a gift that doesn't belong to us. Feelings or data, Information and knowledge. No feeling is a fact. No feeling is final. Freedom is only found in real life. And don't fight reality because it was always win. Yeah, she wrote it on those boards. So for people that want to know, the second half of the Kessler interview will be out on December 23rd.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yes. Two days before Christmas, right?

[Ashley]

Merry Christmas, people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you're sitting there at your in laws house, you're like, I wish I was not here. I'm in grief. We got you.

[Ashley]

There you go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We got you.

[Ashley]

And the second half is more tactical.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like what to do, right? Yeah.

[Ashley]

Like, here's some things you can start doing now kind of thing. So it's great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We've had a run of guests where I leave and I'm different when I leave.

[Ashley]

Oh, 100.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Arthur Brooks, Carlos.

[Ashley]

Yeah, Carlos Whitaker. That was coming up beck ton of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, I just leave and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna make some changes in my life.

[Ashley]

And we've got some pretty exciting ones coming up that we won't talk about, but right now. But they're gonna be coming up after.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The first of the year, so rad. All right, everybody check out that interview. If you haven't checked out the interview with David Kessler, go check it out. Download the Ramsey app and please go to the YouTubes and hit the subscribe button. It helps us out. Love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Peace.