Struggling to Trust My Wife After Catching Her in a Huge Lie

Summary

Summary of "Struggling to Trust My Wife After Catching Her in a Huge Lie" The Dr. John Delony Show
Release Date: January 15, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, host Dr. John Maloney delves deep into themes of trust, honesty, and relationship dynamics through heartfelt conversations with callers grappling with significant personal challenges. The episode offers insightful advice on rebuilding trust, overcoming negativity, supporting loved ones in crisis, and navigating complex family relationships.

---

Michael: Rebuilding Trust After Discovering His Wife's Deception

Situation:
Michael calls in from Cincinnati, Ohio, distressed over discovering that his wife has been lying about completing her nursing degree. He reveals that she dropped out of her program last year but continued to claim graduation, even ordering fake diplomas and attending a ceremonial graduation despite not having earned the degree.

Key Points & Advice:

• Confrontation and Communication: Michael has attempted to confront his wife about the lies, but her dismissive responses have only deepened his frustration and mental strain.
• Dr. Maloney's Guidance:
  • Timestamp [03:15]: Dr. Maloney emphasizes the seriousness of the deception, suggesting that such elaborate lies often indicate deeper issues.
  • Timestamp [09:16]: He advises Michael to shift the conversation from accusatory to affirmative, urging him to express his belief in his wife's dishonesty while seeking transparency.
  • Timestamp [13:01]: Dr. Maloney presents Michael with two paths: continue to catch his wife in lies or foster an environment where the truth can emerge, allowing them both to move forward.

Notable Quote:
"If your wife of one year has put on this big, elaborate ruse, I'm telling you right now, I've been doing this job a long time. She's lying to you about other things probably of grand significance."
— Dr. John Maloney [04:28]

---

Ashley: Transforming Negativity to Enhance Personal Relationships

Situation:
Ashley from Charleston, South Carolina, seeks advice on shifting from a pattern of negativity to fostering a more positive and friendly demeanor. She shares her struggles with anxiety, feeling disconnected, and the impact of her negative outlook on her marriage and friendships.

Key Points & Advice:

• Root Causes: Dr. Maloney explores Ashley's childhood, revealing that being the peacemaker in a turbulent family environment has shaped her current negative patterns.
• Breaking the Cycle:
  • Timestamp [26:13]: He discusses how ingrained trauma responses, such as striving for perfection to gain approval, can lead to adult relationship challenges.
  • Timestamp [29:16]: Encourages Ashley to take control of her thoughts and actions, emphasizing the importance of honoring her needs and seeking genuine happiness.
• Actionable Steps:
  • Self-Reflection: Writing letters to her past and future self to process her experiences.
  • Open Communication: Initiating honest dialogues with her husband about building a more authentic and joyful relationship.

Notable Quote:
"The things that kept you safe as a kid will destroy your adult relationships. It'll make being alive as an adult miserable."
— Dr. John Maloney [23:12]

---

Abby: Supporting a Friend Through Escalating Self-Harm Behaviors

Situation:
Abby from Sydney, Australia, reaches out for guidance on addressing her long-term friend's escalating self-harm behaviors without making her feel abandoned. She describes witnessing her friend's deepening depression and destructive actions, including cutting and suicide attempts, and the challenges in encouraging her to seek professional help.

Key Points & Advice:

• Setting Boundaries: Dr. Maloney acknowledges Abby's unwavering support but stresses the importance of recognizing when professional intervention is necessary.
• Effective Intervention:
  • Timestamp [42:09]: Advocates for a direct and compassionate approach, urging Abby to communicate the urgency of her friend's situation while setting firm boundaries.
  • Timestamp [50:38]: Emphasizes accepting the limited control Abby has over her friend's actions and the necessity of seeking external support to prevent irreversible outcomes.
• Emotional Resilience:
  • Encourages Abby to prioritize her well-being while continuing to offer support, ensuring she does not bear the emotional burden alone.

Notable Quote:
"The greatest gift we can give others sometimes when they are acting irrationally is to not take them other things they say in those moments as rational."
— Dr. John Maloney [41:33]

---

Kelly: Navigating Holiday Gatherings with Husband's Ex-Wife

Situation:
Kelly calls in seeking advice on attending holiday dinners hosted by her husband's adult child, where his ex-wife and her parents are also invited. Kelly expresses feelings of insecurity and discomfort, fearing her husband might still harbor feelings for his ex, leading her to consider making separate holiday plans.

Key Points & Advice:

• Addressing Insecurities: Dr. Maloney validates Kelly's feelings of discomfort and acknowledges the challenges of interacting with a former spouse during family gatherings.
• Assertive Communication:
  • Timestamp [58:10]: Advises Kelly to have an honest conversation with her husband about her feelings and the importance of setting boundaries to preserve her well-being.
  • Timestamp [59:01]: Encourages Kelly to express her needs confidently, ensuring that her concerns are heard and addressed without diminishing her self-worth.
• Balancing Family Dynamics:
  • Highlights the necessity of navigating blended family relationships with empathy and clear communication to foster a respectful and supportive environment for all parties involved.

Notable Quote:
"I would rather you mad at the psychiatric hospital because something happened while she was there than you look in the mirror and say, I should have called."
— Dr. John Maloney [53:22]

---

Conclusions & Takeaways

This episode underscores the intricate complexities of personal relationships and the profound impact of honesty, communication, and self-awareness. Dr. John Maloney provides compassionate and practical advice tailored to each caller's unique situation, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries, fostering open dialogues, and prioritizing mental and emotional well-being. Listeners gain valuable insights into navigating trust issues, overcoming ingrained negative patterns, supporting loved ones in crisis, and managing challenging family dynamics, all of which contribute to healthier and more fulfilling relationships.

Transcript

[Michael]

It looks like she dropped the program about this time last year and she has not gone back since to complete the degree. But she has continued to tell everybody that she's done with school and, you know, going as far as ordering a fake diploma, ordering a cap and gown.

[Dr. John Maloney]

What up? What's going on? This is jon with a doctor, Dr. John Maloney Show. Taking real calls from real people all over the planet, people struggling with their emotional and mental health or relationships, just trying to figure out what's the next right move. Some of these calls are, are, are heavy. Some of these calls are light. Some of these calls are just all of us trying to figure out how to do our lives a little bit better with a little bit more peace, a little less chaos in a world gone mad. So glad that you're with us. If you want to be on the show, go to john deloney.com, ask a s k, fill out the form and we'll holler back girl at you. I ain't a hollow back girl. And then we will see if we can get you on the show. Let's go straight out to Cincinnati, Ohio and talk to Michael. What up, Michael?

[Michael]

Hey, Dr. Lonnie. How you doing, sir?

[Dr. John Maloney]

Rocking on, brother. How are you, man?

[Michael]

A question or more of an issue with how do I approach my wife who has been lying to me about attending nursing school and also graduating nursing school as well? I don't know if you want me to give you some backstory.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Tell me some more about this one.

[Michael]

Yeah. Okay. So my married my wife for about a year. We just year last year or still married? Excuse me? I said not we're still married. Excuse me. She started a three year nursing school program back in October of 2021. So it was gonna commence, you know, this year, you know, end of August. I mean, September. End of August, Early September. So, you know, you know, as we approached the leading up to it, it just, something seemed off and, you know, lo and behold, by doing some of my own research and, you know, finding out, it looks like she dropped the program about this time last year and she has not gone back since, you know, to complete the degree. But she has continued to tell everybody that she's done with school and, you know, going as far as ordering a fake diploma, like ordering a cap and gown. She happened to get sick the morning of the graduation ceremony, you know, became very ill. So that's how we arrived at where we're at now.

[Dr. John Maloney]

So what have your conversations been like with her?

[Michael]

Oh, I did. I mean, I come up and ask her like, hey, like, you know, I know you're not done with school, you know, and then she tells me, I am done with school, you know, I don't support her, I don't believe her. And you know, stuff like that is kind of how it always goes. And it's just becoming mentally draining because, you know, it's just, I know the truth, but she will not admit what's going on first to be able to move forward. And I just don't know what else I can do.

[Dr. John Maloney]

What else does she lie to you about?

[Michael]

Nothing really. It's, it's just the school stuff. We've been together since we were 17 to like 12 years. I mean, that doesn't really lie about anything else. It's just this seems to really be an anchor weighing her down is when you get this stuff, I don't know if it's, you know, low self esteem because, you know, don't, don't, don't go.

[Dr. John Maloney]

About trying to solve it or diagnose it. This is, it's just madness. It's just madness. So you ask, how do I approach her about her life? Yeah, like straight through it.

[Michael]

Okay.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Like, because here's the deal, through the wall.

[Michael]

Here's the deal, right through the wall.

[Dr. John Maloney]

You think your wife is a liar of epic proportions. She says you to you, she says to your face, you're a gaslighter. You don't support her, you don't believe, whatever, you'll have to solve that gap. And so she can put down a transcript, she can log into her transcripts and solve all this right now. And then you have to deal with the fact that I didn't believe you. Go ahead.

[Michael]

I bring that up to her. Like, you know, I, I, you know, I tell her, like, you know, hey, you know, see, you know, see, there's, you know, a video online of the commencement. You know, she tells me that's not, you know, you know, that's not her school. And you know, stuff like that. And I say, hey, show me a transcript, you know, a degree audit, you know, you know, from that. And she said I shouldn't have to do that. And that's just kind of how I, you know, from, to me, if you, if you have nothing to hide, you know, you shouldn't be unwilling to do that, that simple thing to alleviate all this burden off everybody. In my opinion, maybe I'm wrong.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Well, I mean, the interaction here is incredibly sophomore. It's just, it's just very mature. Right, right. And it's, it's one of Those things that you are gonna find yourself rolling around in the mud throwing Legos at somebody because they're sitting in the mud throwing Legos, right? And so you're like, you show me. I don't want to show you. Show me. Like, you show me. And then pretty soon you're gonna say, well, I'm taking my ball and I'm going home. Right? I mean, it just gets to like. So I want to elevate the conversation because here's the deal. If your wife of one year has put on this big, elaborate ruse, I'm telling you right now, I've been doing this job a long time. She's lying to you about other things probably of grand significance. It would be very out of the ordinary for there to be this level of long term, intricate deception, Right. And only be this thing where, where was she going when she said she was going to class?

[Michael]

Yeah, I mean, so I, I mean, I, I work, I, I work in like, mortgage sales. So I go to an office three days a week and like, I'm at home to two others here. So, like, I go to her office. So, like, she, you know, would say that on Tuesdays, you know, because he did have a schedule where, like, it was one of those things where, you know, you take two classes and you go every, you go pretty much all year round, so you take two classes every eight weeks and, and so on from there. That, that was a work. That was like the remote class day. And of course I'm in the office. And so I didn't know if she was doing homework or not.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Where was she going when you were, when you were at home on Thursday?

[Michael]

She would leave and go to. Go somewhere. And now, lo and behold, she would just be around the school area and just maybe sit in the parking garage for two hours. I mean, that's what I think happened, bro.

[Dr. John Maloney]

This is not.

[Michael]

Well, I agree. That's why I'm talking to you.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah. You have to throw on every light you have in your house and call this because there's something else going on.

[Michael]

Right?

[Dr. John Maloney]

If she got in a car and drove and sat in a parking garage for two hours, that's.

[Michael]

I'm assuming she did. I don't, I know. I was busy working and stuff like that.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Like, are you. Let me put it this way. Are you 100 sure she's making this up?

[Michael]

Yes, because there's another wrinkle. You know, you can, you can dissect this as you wish. No, she works part time. Like, she goes to school, they go to School or part time. So she works with. At one time, her like little laptop was left open and I went into like her school like email and she hasn't sent a school email in almost a year, so. And then, you know, when I asked her, hey, you know, why have you said why is there no school email there? She says, I don't use my school and I use my personal. And like I work for a big corporation. If I send stuff my regular email, I'll get fired. But that was the first thing. And then, you know her, like her you know, coursework log. There wasn't any courses taken in this year of 2024. That's why I all pieced it together. But the blackboard they use had no courses taken this year. That's how I put this all together.

[Dr. John Maloney]

But there's some level of self deception going on here with you also. You're being gaslit to the moon and back. Fine, that happens. But you're either not being honest about the state of your marriage, you're not being honest about the general integrity of this person because she would be lying about other things and treating you in other ways and disappearing and spending money and like you don't have this really safe, vulnerable, connected, brand new marriage with this giant tumor on the side of it. That is, she's just gonna go down to the, like, what is her end game? Not become a nurse.

[Michael]

I don't know what her end game.

[Dr. John Maloney]

By the way, dude, you have to do a practicum, a nursing practicum. Has she been in a hospital in the last year?

[Michael]

Well, that's, that's the thing, like when, that's, that's when it, like, you know, recently, you know, they. Correct. I mean, she, you know, tells me on, on, you know, that the Wednesday when they had a clinical, like, you know, that's the day they have clinical. And she sells me. She went to clinical. Like I said, I'm not, I'm not at, I'm at work. So I don't, I don't know where she goes. I know it sounds like naive and stuff, but I mean, and who am I not to believe her? And now, now I look like a fool.

[Dr. John Maloney]

So here's what I want you to do. I want you to change the conversation in your house and it's going to cost you. Okay, but you're going insane. I can feel it.

[Michael]

You think? How can you tell?

[Dr. John Maloney]

I, I can, I could feel it through the phone that you're, you're losing a grasp on reality. Not in a, not in A psychotic way, but in a. You're looking in the mirror going, what? What am I missing? I want you to change the conversation to an affirmative stance. I believe you're not telling me the truth. I believe you're lying to me. I've looked at this. I've looked at this. I've looked at this. I've looked at this. You might be able to call the school as. Depending on what kind of. If she puts you in as an emergency contact under her federal rights and Federal Education Rights and Privacy act, the ferpa, she may have put you down as someone who can call in and ask about her grades if she's enrolled.

[Michael]

There at the time. Is that correct?

[Dr. John Maloney]

You can ask for the enrollment status. I believe they can give that to you. It's been a minute since I looked at FERPA stuff. It's been about five years. Well, they might not. It depends on what program she's in, actually, whether she can. They can. She has to give. She has to have told them they can give you permission to check enrollment, but you can call. It's not. The worst I can tell you is I can't tell you that. But say, I'm calling on behalf of my wife. I'm looking for her transcript. I can't find it. But you can call and get. Get your questions answered the best you can. Maybe they won't answer them, but you have to act in the affirmative. Your marriage is falling apart right beneath you, and I don't think you want to acknowledge that. This is madness. This is insane. Like, she's saying she has a. A credentialed medical degree. You know what I mean? Like, this isn't just.

[Michael]

Well, yeah. Well, the thing is, too, also, like, the. The other thing is, you know, you can't find her name in the.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Oh, you know, the state registry either. And she just tells us, you know, that there's a glitch in the system, and, you know.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, you're going crazy. You're now looking up the state. You know that she's lying to you. You have. I know. I'm aware of that. Okay. So you got to deal with that.

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And you have to deal with the fact that you're. You're. There's probably other things she's lied to you about. You have to deal with the fact that your marriage isn't what you thought it was. She's not who you thought she was. I'm not saying you have to get divorced, but I'm saying the marriage. You had is now over. You'll have to decide whether you're going to build a new one. And it has to be one built on integrity. And no one ever tells a lie. And so you have two options here, and I'll give you the same options I gave my students when I was dealing with student conduct issues. You could try to catch her in a lie. You can call around, get all the information or whatever. Or you can. And when you're doing that, the goal is to catch her. Right? The goal is to be right. Or the goal can be to let the truth be free. I'm not telling you which one of these to do. I'm telling you there's two different paths you can take. The second path is sitting down and saying, I am married to somebody who is so deep in a lie and can't get out of it. You have 48 hours to come sit down and tell your husband the truth about what happened the last year, where you've been, what's going on with you. I love you and I want to be with you, and I'll walk with you through this. And the goal there is let's let the truth emerge so we can move on with our lives, whatever that means. The other is a game of cat and mouse, and I want to catch you because the purpose of the interaction is to catch you. Does that make sense?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

I would always tell my students when they came in with drugs, assault, whatever. All right, I've got your story. I've got my notes. You got 24 hours to come back, and I'm going to count it as though you told me the truth. After that, it's going to compound in a really significant way, because now you're a person who lacks integrity. And that's almost always. Not always, but almost always worse than the original offense. But maybe you sitting down saying, I'll be with you when the smoke clears on this thing, but I'm not going forward. You have 48 hours to come clean and tell me the truth. And then you have to have your or what moment? And your or what moment is. What are you going to do if she says, how dare you? Forget it. I'm not leaving. Are you going to move out? Are you going to kick her out? Are you going to try to get your marriage annull? Like what are you going to go do? You have to spend some time with your or what? But I think if you spend some time with your or what, you're going to spend some time honestly, reflecting. She probably has not been a person who's told you the truth throughout your relationship or she's fudged the edges or been in an exaggerator or forgot to tell you about one boyfriend. She went out when y'all were on a quote unquote on a break. Like Ross said, right? This is just madness. Throw all the lights on. This situation needs an adult. You are lying. You got 48 hours to come clean. I'll sit here with you. I'll love you. We'll walk through this thing together. But you got 48 hours. This ruse is over and we'll figure out what's going to happen next. Okay, before we get back to the show, let's talk about Organifi. Health and wellness is an adventure and a journey. It's not a destination. You can never eat so great or work out so hard on one particular day that you're good for the whole next month. Being well and healthy is something you work on every single day. And I'm not perfect by a long shot. And I'm guessing you're not either. Our health and wellness journeys have stops and starts and highs and lows and victories and setbacks. One way to make your journey easier is to make consistently healthy choices about what you eat and drink. This is why I love Organifi because their whole food blends contain only the best plant based, certified organic, vegan, dairy free and soy free ingredients. Organifi makes it super easy to get the benefits. Just mix it with water or your favorite healthy beverage, swirl it up and drink it. That's it. Their green juice is great in the morning. It's packed with superfoods that help boost your energy, calm your mind and support you throughout the day. Organifi red juice is loaded with antioxidants to help with focus, stamina and recovery. And don't forget the pure juice and those happy drops make Organifi part of your health and wellness journey. Go to Organifi.com DeLoney right now to save 20% off at checkout with code DeLoney. That's Organifi O R G-A-N-I F I.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney for 20% off forever. I've been talking about my love of red light therapy, my love for infrared saunas, my concerns about the way certain types of light disrupts our mood and our sleep, the amount of EMFs in everything we do and more. And I've been looking for someone I could team up with to offer red light and near infrared light therapy at the highest quality as well, as someone who could help me with my other concerns about our modern living environment, I've tried a number of different companies and products and I'm super excited that we are now partnering with Bon Charge, a world leader in red light therapy. I've purchased a number of Bon Charge products with my own money and I love them. Red light and near infrared light therapy has been reviewed in over 4,000 peer reviewed studies with 400 plus of those studies being double blind placebo trials. Not only do these studies show amazing health benefits, not one study has shown any negative side effects. Red light therapy can help with boosting your mood, helping with sleep, reducing stress, recovery from aches and pains, better skin and skin health, cellulite stretch marks and more. I use my red light therapy panels and mask both the near infrared and the red light up to 10 to 20 minutes each day, sometimes more. And I often do this during my prayer or meditation time when I'm sore from working out or when I'm having trouble sleeping. It has become a cornerstone of my health and wellness practice. And I've also recently ordered Bon Charge's infrared sauna blanket, their special lamps and light bulbs for my home and more. Bon Charge ships worldwide in rapid time and their products, including red light therapy, are HSA and FSA eligible. Bon Charge offers easy returns and exchanges and a 12 month warranty on all red light therapy devices. Go to boncharge.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 15 off. That's a B O N C H a r g e.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 15%. All right, we are back. Hey, don't forget you can download the Ramsey Network app, which is the network that hosts this show. You can check out all the show and you get it up to a week early, even in the video. You can click the link in the show notes for more details. All right, let's go out to Charleston, South Carolina and talk to Ashley. What's up, Ashley?

[Ashley]

Hey, Dr. John.

[Dr. John Maloney]

What's up?

[Ashley]

I have a question for you. I want to know if you have any tips on how I can change from being a negative person to a more positive, friendly person.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Well, I work with Kelly Daniels, so I've got a lot of insight on this one.

[Ashley]

I, I feel like I tend to be a realist, but I'm also kind of riddled with anxiety. I get nervous a lot and I have trouble kind of staying present in the moment. Like feels like no matter what I'm doing, I don't feel like I Get excited a whole lot anymore. And I kind of struggle to express the positive things. And I feel like I just express the negative to my friends. Like I'm trying to be conversational. And then I realize, oh, that sounded really negative.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

And I. I think it just comes out all the time. I feel like I've been stuck in a pattern of negativity for a pretty long time.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah. That's a heavy. That's a heavy air to breathe, isn't it? It's exhausting to be awake, isn't it?

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Have you found it begin to spiral on you where you found yourself? Man, I'm more negative. And then all of a sudden you look up and two years later, it's all the time. Every breath, every thought, every everything.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

Yeah. I think that's where I'm at.

[Dr. John Maloney]

What is your. And you may not know off the top of your head, but what is your body trying to protect you from? I like to start from a place of. Our bodies are usually right. And in your situation, bodies are often trying to like, protect us from unsafe economic situations, you owe a bunch of money, or unsafe work situations. You're being asked to do things that are unethical. Your job may go away at any time. Or unsafe or lonely relationship issues, like you don't have any ride or dies. Your body's identified that you don't have any friends. Yeah.

[Ashley]

I feel like. I don't know, I feel like maybe just mean people in general. I feel like maybe I've lost faith in humanity. And I feel like everybody could be judging me at any moment for anything.

[Dr. John Maloney]

They could. But why would it matter?

[Ashley]

I don't know why it matters. And I. I feel like.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Tell me about your mom and dad. I was growing up.

[Ashley]

It was good. I had a good childhood. They. They divorced once. All the kids moved out.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay. Which tells me there was stuff going on throughout the whole marriage.

[Ashley]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember in childhood kind of telling my friends I wish they would just get divorced because they did argue. A good bet.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah. How did you get. How did you. How did you get your parents attention?

[Ashley]

I don't know. I know I ran away a few times. Not really ran away, but we. We lived on a few acres, so I would just run to the woods and hide all day. I don't know. I. I.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Did you make straight A's growing up?

[Ashley]

No.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay.

[Ashley]

I was, I was. I mean, I was on the AB honor roll. I did work really, really hard at school. I. I think. I think school was harder for me than I ever really realized. And I was just working, like, really hard to get good grades.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Why did you need to get good grades so, so badly?

[Ashley]

I mean, for sure. We reviewed the report card. It definitely felt like it was expected, you know, And I kind of put a competition on me and my siblings. Like, I was always proud that I was the only one who never got an F in college. Okay. I feel like I make everything a competition, really.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Well, if. If coming out on top is the way you survived as a kid, is the way you got distance between you and the next person that was going to get yelled at or ignored or shunned or screamed at or hit, that's a good place to be.

[Ashley]

Yeah. And, yeah, that makes sense. You've got on top is. Yeah, definitely.

[Dr. John Maloney]

It keeps.

[Ashley]

Sounds like a goal.

[Dr. John Maloney]

That's right. Coming out on top can be a trauma response, too. And if you have a house with two dysregulated adults screaming at each other, ignoring each other, you can feel the tension in the house all the time so bad that you can go run and sit in the woods. Then coming out on top is a way to, like, get out above the clouds, to get away from that nonsense and get other stable adults to pat you on the back and say, I see. Good job.

[Ashley]

For sure.

[Dr. John Maloney]

But the things that were supposed to keep you the most safe in the whole world, your mom and your dad, they didn't. They were too busy with themselves, going to war. And so you have two competing stories. Reality and this other story. My childhood was great. Which is exactly how you started the call, Right? It was heavy. But also, you've been a people pleaser. You've been a. You've been a peacemaker. Peacekeeper.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Is that fair? Your job has been to make sure everybody else is okay forever.

[Ashley]

Oh, for sure. I know. There was one point in high school where I. I tried to plan their anniversary date, and I could just tell it was about to fall apart. And I wanted to make something really special for them.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Ashley, you know they didn't get divorced because of you, right?

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And you know there's not a damn thing you could have done to keep them together, right?

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Sometimes when our whole life has been about squashing what we need, what we want, what we love, what brings us joy, what makes us laugh, squashing all of that in an effort to keep mom and dad together, to keep little brother from getting hit, to keep our grades all perfect so we can get a certificate from the school counselor, the assistant principal. Your body just begins to get rageful because all that crap is trapped in there.

[Ashley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And everything has a cynical twist. Everything has a. Oh, yeah. There's another side to that story because you live the other side of the story. Everybody in your neighborhood thought your family was great. Fair.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

So I say this a lot on the show and I'll unpack it a little bit for you. The things that kept you safe as a kid will destroy your adult relationships. It'll make being alive as an adult miserable. The things that kept you safe as a kid was making sure everybody else is okay to the detriment of your own sanity. The things that kept you safe as a kid was constantly, always being on guard to emotionally regulate the two adults in your life. You've been chasing variables and your whole life, and now you're in a world where who knows what the government's. Who knows. Can't trust anybody. Education, I don't know. Science, I don't know. Medicine, I don't know. Like, the whole world seems to have all the strings pulled on it. And here's the deal. It's so easy to fall into the trap of pessimism and sarcasm. It's all coming down. Oh, yeah. You know, this. Can you believe? Right? You see what I'm saying?

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

It's a. It's. It's false control. It feels like you're grabbing hold of all the potential bad things. Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing, tragedy. You are pre thinking all the negative stuff you're telling everybody. That's how you're trying to bond with the worst things that could possibly happen. And then your body realizes that you're pushing everybody away. They don't want to be around that, you don't want to be around that. Right?

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Are you married?

[Ashley]

I am.

[Dr. John Maloney]

How's your marriage?

[Ashley]

Not great.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Tell me about it.

[Ashley]

Well, he has a 9 on the atheist test or whatever you guys call that. And I. I mean, I have a one. You know, my parents argued, but there is no violence or anything. I think I have a one. I may have a zero. So we come from different worlds.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Hey, Ashley, I can promise you, based on what you've told me, you have more than a one. For whatever it's worth, the Aces score is not a competition either.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And your mom and dad don't need you to protect them anymore. Okay.

[Ashley]

Okay.

[Dr. John Maloney]

But you. You married another guy that you're trying to fix, right? Trying to make sure it's going to be okay?

[Ashley]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John Maloney]

You. You're realizing in real time you can't do anything about that. Right.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

I'm sorry.

[Ashley]

Yeah. We've been married eight years, and we have two kids.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah.

[Ashley]

And we just. We've just always argued a lot.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah. You got two people's bodies in that house to two nervous systems that are just playing whack a mole with each other.

[Ashley]

Mm. Yeah. Things are things that can be good, you know, for a pretty good time, you know, like, six months or so. We'll go with no arguments. But we're also not really. We're not connecting on, like, deep levels.

[Dr. John Maloney]

No, it's avoidance. Yeah. Avoidance.

[Ashley]

Right.

[Dr. John Maloney]

It's not real peace. It's just a lack of bombs, but there's no peace.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Will your husband. Will your husband go. Will your husband go get counseling? Will he do the work?

[Ashley]

No, not. I don't think he will. I mean, we. Honestly, this last fight we had, it was pretty much, if we don't do counseling, I'm gonna. We're gonna have a separation for a while, you know?

[Dr. John Maloney]

What was his response?

[Ashley]

He said, okay, we'll do it. This is after, you know, I think, year one. I said, we should do it. So we did it. We did three, and then we kind of just stopped. I think I mentioned to him one time, you know, when would you like to schedule the next one? And he's like, you think we need it, and we just haven't done it again.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Well, I kept you in that moment from saying, absolutely we do, because I feel like.

[Ashley]

I don't know.

[Dr. John Maloney]

I can tell you, I think you feel like what you actually feel and what you want doesn't matter.

[Ashley]

True.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Ashley, you're worth more than that. Your kids are worth more than that. Your husband and your marriage is worth more than that.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Here's your path forward. Okay. And it's a rocky, rocky, rocky path number one. You can only control what you can control, and that's your thoughts and your actions. And that's it. That's it. The first thing is you've got to honor your body. Your body's trying to keep you safe. You have a home life that you haven't fully come to reckon with. Telling the truth about it, it was hard and scary. You've got a marriage that's really, really tough because you're married to a guy that went through a lot of. Of hurt and hell growing up. You got two kids. It's chaotic. You're in the year eight, which is always just a stressful season. Like, your body is right to be bitter about the world. You don't have a safe place, Right?

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah. Or. That sounds so cheesy. You have no place where your shoulders drop and you just laugh.

[Ashley]

Right.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Right.

[Ashley]

I don't.

[Dr. John Maloney]

So your homework is assignment. Assignment is to go be honest about what that place would look like. And ask your husband, would you build that with me? And he might say no.

[Ashley]

Yeah. I think one of the biggest problems with me trying to come up to him with something is not that he'll say no. He'll say, well, really, he'll just laugh at me and say, really? And, you know, make it seem like it's something stupid first. And he'll go, he'll go along. He'll go along with things, but it's only if I'm, you know, pushing it and going. If I'm pushing it past, you know, the way he's making me feel about it, you know, so.

[Dr. John Maloney]

So do you. Do you want to not have it or do you want to have it? And you carry the lion's share of the weight for the. For the first. The first bit.

[Ashley]

Yeah, I guess I could do that.

[Dr. John Maloney]

But there's a Sitting down and saying, hey, in the past, you make fun of me, you hurt my feelings, you laugh at me. Please don't do that this time. I'm being vulnerable with you. I want to have a different kind of marriage. And I want you to be happy that you're home, and I want to be happy that I'm home. Here's what that looks like. I've written it out for me. I would love for you to write that out for you. And please don't make faces at me. Please don't roll your eyes. And if he does, if he dishonors your vulnerability in that way, then that gives you a. A firmer foundation to deal with the reality that he's not the man that you think he is. Yeah, often women do it, but men do it the most. They make jokes, they go, are you serious? Because they're so uncomfortable. It's not a pass. It's not a. It's not a. It's just a lack of skills. And so they laugh, they roll their eyes like I'm doing that. Most men would love to have the woman of their dreams sit across the table and say, I want to go all in with you. But men are so utilitarian and competency based, they don't know what that means, how to do that. And so the only way they can protect themselves is by rolling their eyes and laughing. And so is this a cop out? No. Is this a way it should be. No. Is this reality? Yes. Sometimes it takes somebody, an interested member of this marriage team to say, here's what I want this thing to look like. I want to go all in. Here's the road map to my heart. I would really appreciate if you'd give me a roadmap to yours. And I think you need to sit down and be honest about writing a letter to your mom and dad. Don't ever send it, but be honest about what you experienced. I want you to write a letter to nine year old you who's running and hiding in the woods because of all the screaming. And I want you to write a letter to five years from now you. You're just running the same script you ran as a kid and it'll keep you distanced from hurt, but it's gonna always avoid connection and I want that. And he's gonna have to make some choices to change his life too. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey folks, we all have stories. We have the family and cultural stories we were born into. We have the stories of the good and challenging things that have happened to us. And we have the stories we are constantly telling ourselves, both good and not so good. The stories of our pasts and the stories we have yet to write about our future are powerful. And while you can't go back and change any of your old stories, the world is waiting to see what story you're going to write next. As we enter 2025, I want to encourage you to examine and even heal your old stories and be intentional about the new ones you're writing. And I'm not talking about goals that will be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life forever for the better. If you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and begin writing new one. Maybe think of your therapist as an editorial partner helping you write new, better stories. If you're considering therapy, I want you to consider BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Start writing a new story this month with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. Month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to Sydney, Australia and talk to Abby. Hey Abby, what's up?

[Abby]

Hi. How you doing, Dr. John?

[Dr. John Maloney]

I'm doing okay. How about you?

[Abby]

No, thanks for having me, man. I was just wondering how do I best address my friends harmful patterns without making them feel abandoned? I know, it's a bit of a loaded one.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah, tell me about it.

[Abby]

So I've had this friend for a long time now. It's nearly been 20 years. And I care about them deeply, like they're one of my closest friends. But unfortunately they've had a lot going on through their life and every couple of years it's almost like clockwork. They fall into a deep depression and like I'm always there for them, which I always will be. But it's getting to a point now where the self harm and the, and the destructive like behaviors are just the repetition is all. It's a lot to not see them trying to help themselves in any way. Like, I don't know how to.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Tell me about self harm. What, what kind of self harm?

[Abby]

So self harm in the sense of like, like with, with medications and with physical self harm, like with blades and stuff too.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Cutting. Okay, when you say medications, are these suicide attempts?

[Abby]

I'd say yes. With the medication, with the cutting, not so much because it's not in the. The right way, I guess you could say. I think the self harm in the cutting is more of a trying to feel something different than their own mental health problems for a moment, which is really sad.

[Dr. John Maloney]

But how long has the cutting been going on?

[Abby]

Since before I've known them, to be honest with you, and I've known them since we were teenagers.

[Dr. John Maloney]

How is the cutting escalated a long time.

[Abby]

That time it's just gotten worse. Like deeper and, and yeah, like deeper, I guess you could say. And my most recent experience with them, it was pretty bad. And unfortunately my friend won't allow it. Sounds so silly. I'm so sorry, Dr. John, but they won't allow me or my friends to call any actual emergency services or take them to a hospital because they believe that they'll actually get help there. They think that they're going to get thrown away like in a psych ward or something. And that's just not how it works. And we've tried to explain that to them and it's just getting to a point now where it's really, really hard to stop everything going on in my life to do this every time this happens. But there's that conflicting feeling of of course I'm gonna stop what's going on in my Life to help them. But there's. Yeah, it's just at a point now where I just feel so weird about it because my friend won't even accept the help when we're trying to give it.

[Dr. John Maloney]

So, number one, I'm gonna tell you that I wish the world had more friends who cared like you.

[Abby]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Like, all the way across the planet. I want you to feel me saying, I'm grateful for you.

[Abby]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Maloney]

It's pretty amazing. And I would love to spend several hours just having nachos with you and listening to your story about how you came to become a person who just cares so deeply. It's pretty amazing. So I want to change directions a bit, but I'll loop us all the way back around. Okay.

[Abby]

Yes.

[Dr. John Maloney]

What do you do for a living?

[Abby]

I'm an artist.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay.

[Abby]

I do. Yeah, I do tattoo work.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay. So let's say you have a friend named Dan, and Dan has a small flat in Sydney. And one day, Dan calls you in the middle of the night screaming, come over, Come over. Come over. And because you're Abby, you're who you are. You ask no questions, you grab your small bag and you are on your bike and you're there in no time. And you run in the door and all of Dan's toilets have exploded. They're just pouring water and urine and cha, cha, cha, cha, cha all over the place, Right?

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And you're getting drenched and the smell is dreadful. And Dan is in the middle of the house screaming, and there's several other friends over, and you're like, what are we doing? And he's like, I don't know. My toilets have exploded. And you say, well, I'm calling emergency services. And he's like, no, no one's calling a plumber. You have to fix this, Abby. And you're thinking, I'm an artist. I do not know how wax seals on toilets work and plumbing. I don't know anything. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Your love for your friend is clouding the fact that this is far, far exceeded your ability to help her.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And help is different than sit with. I'll always be there.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

But as a friend, I refuse to watch you sit by me and die. And so, if you want to call it abandonment, fine. And by the way, there is cutting. Doesn't raise my eyebrow one iota. I've dealt with cutting my entire career. And there's an escalation to cutting that becomes a dress rehearsal for something worse. It becomes like the act of dying. By suicide is so unnatural to the body. There can be an escalation, a practicing, if you will.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And what you're describing to me as cuts that are so bad your. You and your friends are trying to call emergency services and they're screaming, don't do it. Demanding not to do it. I want you to drop your shoulders and finally exhale. Not in a powerless way, but in a powerful way. I am over my head now. I'm calling in every authority I can call because I value your life. And if you don't like me or you get mad at me, so be it. I'll be happy to know that you are alive, hating me, then planning your funeral.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And so the greatest gift we can do some. The greatest gift we can give others sometimes when they are acting irrationally is to not take them other things they say in those moments as rational. Right. Somebody that is hurting themselves to that level. Have you had to. Have you had to put the wounds back together, hold them?

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

So somebody lands at that level and you're holding compresses. You are taping people like you've stitched, like you've. You've been there.

[Michael]

Right.

[Dr. John Maloney]

I've seen this. And then. So you're seeing somebody do something that is not rational, which is to injure themselves. Not just to feel pain, but to hurt.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And yet they say, don't call anybody. Or else. Well, that's. I want you to hear. That is not rational either. Okay. Not picking and choosing which one. Now, when I tell you, I want you to sit down with your friend and say, hey, you've got 24 hours. I'm going to go with you. I'm going to be with you every step of the way that they'll allow me. But you got to go get professional help because I'm not going to watch you die.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Imagine yourself saying that and tell me what's in your guts. Where do you feel the resistance to that conversation?

[Abby]

I think just because we've. Maybe because we've had that conversation before, but maybe I haven't been as direct as what you've just said. I've spoken to them about seeing someone or coming with me to see someone together. And I can just sit in the room if they need me to, I'll sit outside of the room. But every single time it's no, no, I'm not doing that. I don't want to. And that's where my frustration is lying, I think.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Well, and that's where you have to make the choice.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

To this sounds harsh. To protect you.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And I want you to make the choice to refuse to watch your friend wither and die in your presence over a period of 20 years. I refuse to refuse. And so the conversation does get very direct. It's not a matter of, hey, I would love it tonight. Why don't please make the call, I'll go with you. It's not it. The conversation is, here's the deal. By the end of this evening, you will be in psychiatric care. You want me to drive you or do you want them to come here and give you a shot and strap you down? You get to pick. Yeah, I would love to drive you. You don't care about me. You're this, you're that. Swear words screaming I hate you. Oh my gosh, you're abandoning me. Great, I get that. I get you're mad. I believe you. Which choice would you like? Choice A, I drive you, or B, tonight's the night you go get help and you see the difference. I'm going to begin to squeeze every option you have out. And I don't know the laws in Australia. I don't know if she can just go sign herself out after a 72 hour hold. I don't know all the rules in Australia, but that's the kind of conversation I'm going to have with a close friend that I love.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And for whatever it's worth, I've had that conversation with people that I love and it's almost always, it's almost universally the person who's hurting exhales because they can't keep carrying all of this.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Right.

[Abby]

My friend's a good person too.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Of course she is.

[Abby]

She does. They deserve to feel like they belong here, right?

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yes.

[Abby]

Yeah. I think that's where it hurts. I don't even want to tell them that I've been sad and upset about this because I don't want to put extra pressure on them. But it's just, man, like, you know, we all love you and we all want you here and I know that sometimes that's not enough for some people, but like, they have so much support and so many people that care.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Like. Yeah. I just hope. Yeah. That the next conversation they can actually, as you said, they might turn around and be like, I hate you. But yeah, you're right. I would rather them be disgruntled and upset with me for doing the right thing than just sitting there and yeah. Letting them. Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

I, I, I will risk the oldest, longest, most connected friendships I have for life and death.

[Abby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Every step of the way. And I. I've been through this conversation so many times with close friends, with other. With people that just that. That I do professionally. I've almost taken it as a responsibility of somebody saying, like, I imagine life in a car, and they're screaming, I can't drive this thing. Please come take the wheel. And I need you to hear me say, abby, when somebody gets to that situation, there's not a thing you can say that you haven't already said. They're gonna go, oh, you're right. You're right. Here's how to drive.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

They've decided, I'm not driving. So they can move over, or you can pick them up and put them in the back seat, but you have to take the wheel. And in this case, this. It's exceeded your capacity, exceeded your ability. And that's great. That's good. That's why we have amazing professionals who will come in and walk alongside her.

[Abby]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And your goal here is not to be liked. Your goal here is not to make sure she's quote, unquote. Okay. The goal is to be a kind of friend who wades through fire and does the right thing, especially when it's hard.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Can I leave you with one other piece of just. Just as honest truth as I can lay on you?

[Abby]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Take a big, deep breath and hold it. Three, two, Exhale it. Drop your shoulders. Okay. All right. Can you hear me?

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay. There's a very real possibility that you do everything right here, and there's not a great outcome.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And the trend line you're telling me is especially concerning to me. And so I want you to make peace with the very limited amount you. Of control you have in the situation. Okay?

[Abby]

Yes. Yes.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Is that hard? God, it's. It's the worst thing you can imagine.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

But you can do everything right here. Calling every professional call in every situation and your friend to do something irreversible. And you can choose to spend the rest of your life wondering, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I shouldn't have. Or you can spend the rest of your life exhaling, knowing, I'm heartbroken that I lost my friend, but I did everything. I did the next right thing every time I could, especially when it came to knowing when I was over my head and needed to call some professionals. And I know that's a sad, heartbreaking place to be, but when I. People that I work with are hurting in this way, I always leave Space for. They're still autonomous adults that can make decisions that are terrifying and scary and heartbreaking for all of us who remain.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And I'm gonna do everything in my power to prevent that. But you get what I'm saying?

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

All right. Give me a pulse. Give me a pulse. Check. How are we doing? Did you think this is what I was gonna say? Are you, like, man, you suck?

[Abby]

Yeah. No, no, no. I actually really appreciate it because, you know, here I am in my head going, have I done this? Can I do that? Should I do this? And really, like, you've given me direction of what I can do next, but the permission, which, like, I know, really give myself permission, but reminding me to give myself permission to breathe and realize that it's not all on me. Like, it's. You know. Yeah. At the end of the day, they are an adult with their own decisions to make, too. And I can only. I can only do so much.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And you're past that.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

And let me promise you with all my guts. Promise you. Promise you. Promise you. Promise you. You would much rather be on the side of this friend not ever wanting to talk to you again and them still being alive than going to a funeral and wondering if I. What would have happened if I'd called.

[Abby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

I promise you that. Okay. I'd rather you mad at the psychiatric hospital because something happened while she was there than you look in the mirror and say, I should have called. You gonna make.

[Abby]

I really appreciate that you're gonna make the call, like, a lot. Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Okay.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Maloney]

I'm proud of you. This may be the most.

[Abby]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Loving act of kindness you've ever waded through, and it's an honor to have gone to talk with you.

[Abby]

No, I really appreciate speaking to you. Thank you.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Will you. Will you holler back and let us know how the conversation goes?

[Abby]

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you.

[Dr. John Maloney]

All right. Thank you for blessing us with your bravery. It's been an honor to get to talk to you. The world needs more friends like you.

[Abby]

Thank you, Dr. John, and thank you for what you do. I really, really appreciate the time that you spend with all of us. So thank you.

[Dr. John Maloney]

You got it, my sister. Thank you so much. We'll be praying for you guys. Since the first day I started the show, I've been running my mouth about the importance of regular exercise and taking care of your physical health. I am thrilled to announce that I have partnered with TrainWell, an amazing app and personal trainer all in one. TrainWell offers tailored workouts with step by step guidance from real people. So while it is on your phone or your computer, it's not just an app and it's not just a personal trainer. It's the best of both me, my wife, my colleagues and their wives. We've all been using trainwell for some time now and the feedback, the interaction with a real personal trainer, the accountability and the personalized nature of the workouts have been amazing. To get started, you just need to answer a few questions about your fitness journey. Whether this is your first time ever or you're a seasoned veteran expert when it comes to working out, you're gonna hop on a chat with an exper expert trainer to discuss your goals and make a personalized plan. And then it's time to get to work. As you complete your workouts, your trainer will keep tweaking them to help you get better. If you're ready to start taking control of your physical health, take the quiz to find your Perfect [e-mail] DeLoney Today this January only, you'll get 45% off the monthly price plus 14 days of free training. Go to trainwell.net DeLoney that's TrainWell. T R A I N W E L L.net DeLoney all right, we're back. All right, Kelly, what happened now?

[Kelly]

All right, so I've got into my the problem which people I still need more, so reach out. Make sure you put am I the problem in the subject line. Send me those cool crap that happened and am I the problem now? I realize this actually airs in January so it'll be after the holidays, but for now it's Thanksgiving week and this is kind of a holiday themed one, but it's still a good one.

[Dr. John Maloney]

All right, let's do it.

[Kelly]

All right, so she says, I've been married for five years to my husband for the holiday. One of his adult children has started hosting dinner at their house a couple years prior. However, my husband's ex wife and her parents are invited as well because that's the child that's hosting that's child's mother. I went for the first time and I was pretty uncomfortable. They were married for many years before she left him for another man. I feel insecure in matters that involve her because I still wonder if he secretly wishes he was with her. So last year I made separate holiday plans for my side of the family. Now another holiday is approaching and I don't feel like spending my holiday with his ex walking around with a fake smile on my face. Am I the problem? P.S. all of the children are grown adults.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yes. I mean, no, I, I'm not, I, I, there's nothing clinical about this. This is just straight from John's guts. If my wife left me for another dude and Hank has holidays and he invites us all, number one, I'm going to call Hank and be like, dude, what are you doing? Like, I'm not doing that. And two, yes, I would always wonder, right? And if I bring in my, my new wife, she's always going to wonder, like, would John still want to be married to her if she hadn't left him? Yeah. Whole thing just sucks. I'm not doing that. I wouldn't do that. That's, that's probably my final answer because now I'm talking myself out of it. Also, I'm gonna say, you don't seem.

[Kelly]

Real secure in that answer.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Put a fake smile on your face and go to dinner for two hours and get on with your life.

[Kelly]

Exactly. That's. I can sit on both sides.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Super, super obnoxiously flirty and lick the side of his face. That be so awesome. It's like, will you pass the whipped cream? That so great, man. Like, you could choose to have fun because. Yeah, you know what? I'm changing my whole answer. Screw everything I just said. Listen, I'm an external processor. I'm external. I'm processing this in real time. She said, I'm wondering if he is. That's your husband. Ask that question.

[Kelly]

Right.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Ask the question. And if he says, absolutely not. I hated her. She left me for another dude. Hopefully he says yes. In a perfect world. I wish I still had my old life. That world's over. It's gone. I'm so glad I have you. Because there's a reality that if she doesn't run off, they don't have their life. Let's just have to call that out. I'm, I'm happy to be doing life with you.

[Kelly]

And I'm gonna give kudos to the husband because he is still. This is the way I'm viewing it. He is still, I'm thinking, for his children's sake, willing to spend his holiday. Cause he wants to spend it with his son. That, you know, he's man enough and adult enough is more the thing to say. Even if she's there, they're still the parents. And we talked about this before. When you marry somebody with kids, I don't care if they're grown to kids.

[Dr. John Maloney]

That's what you married into.

[Kelly]

You married into it.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yes.

[Kelly]

And you gotta figure out what I said.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Put a smile on your face. Just go. Just go be. Be awkward and weird. Have some fun with it. Make a lot of, like, digs. Make it. I'm all about. Yeah, all go for it. Yes.

[Kelly]

But you can just maybe be an extremely pleasant person.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yeah. Be over the top kind. Kill them softly with. With kindness. That's not really what Lauryn Hill says, but.

[Kelly]

No, I think that's kind of a.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Few things I kind of mushed Lauren Hill in the Bible. But listen, just. Just be overly kind. Put a smile on your face. It's a thing you got to do once a year. You married into it. You married into it. And maybe lick his face. Maybe lick his face at the table. Or just put shaving cream all over his face and rub it real slow and be like. Remember? He'll be like, nope, nope, nope. That's. That's what I'm doing. That's what I. That's what I say. You're in, Kelly.

[Kelly]

Minus the shaving cream.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Yes. Whipped cream. Grody.

[Kelly]

I'm shaving cream.

[Dr. John Maloney]

Oh, I meant whipped cream. Shaving cream. Whipped cream. Oh. Bye. Love y'all. Hey, what's up, folks? Big news. The Dr. John DeLoney show is now available a full week early in the Ramsey Network app. That's right. You can catch all the real talk of mental health, relationships, emotional health before anyone else. And the best part, it's completely free. Just click the link in the show notes to download the Ramsey Network app and start watching early today.