This Secret Will Blow Up Our Church Group

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. John Delony Show Episode: This Secret Will Blow Up Our Church Group
Release Date: June 9, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network’s Dr. John Deloney

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Dr. John Delony Show, Dr. John Deloney delves deep into the complexities of trust, betrayal, and marital struggles within tight-knit communities. The episode features heartfelt calls from listeners grappling with personal challenges related to relationships and mental health, providing actionable insights and compassionate guidance.

---

Caller Segment 1: Rose's Turmoil – An Affair Within the Church Small Group

Rose's Dilemma
Rose from Indianapolis initiates the conversation at [00:05], revealing a distressing situation: she has discovered an affair between one of the wives and one of the husbands in her five-couple church small group. This revelation has left her grappling with trust issues and emotional turmoil.

Key Points:

• Discovery of the Affair: Rose learned about the affair indirectly through a coworker who knows Sarah, the wife involved.
• Emotional Impact: She describes feeling like she's going through the grief cycle, experiencing sadness and anger as she processes the information.
• Confrontation Attempt: Rose confronted Sarah directly, but Sarah denied any wrongdoing, exacerbating Rose's distrust and confusion.

Dr. John's Guidance: At [05:02], Dr. John advises Rose to "grieve the betrayal" by acknowledging the shattered trust within the group. He emphasizes the importance of understanding that "you can only control what you can control" and encourages Rose to make peace with the situation, even if it means leaving the group.

Notable Quotes:

• Rose: "I kind of feel like I'm going through the grief cycle. Like, I'm really sad, and then I get really mad..." [01:30]
• Dr. John: "Life is what somebody dropping a grenade in your lap at all times." [08:54]

Insights and Conclusion: Dr. John underscores the significance of integrity and personal boundaries. He advises Rose to evaluate whether continuing in the group aligns with her values and mental well-being. The conversation concludes with Dr. John reaffirming his support, highlighting the emotional complexities Rose faces.

---

Caller Segment 2: Chris's Struggles – Fifteen Years in a Deteriorating Marriage

Chris's Situation
At [17:44], Chris reaches out about his 15-year marriage facing significant challenges. His wife shows diminishing interest in the relationship, exhibits minimal effort, and there is a pronounced lack of intimacy.

Key Points:

• Emotional Disconnect: Chris feels his wife is emotionally distant, spending more time with her family than with him.
• Attempts at Counseling: They have tried couples counseling without success, as his wife was resistant to making necessary changes.
• Lack of Communication: Efforts to discuss feelings often lead to defensiveness and blame-shifting from his wife.

Dr. John's Guidance: At [21:18], Dr. John candidly states, "she has left this marriage a long time ago." He encourages Chris to recognize that his wife has emotionally disengaged and advises him to "make peace with it", suggesting that continuing the marriage under these strained circumstances may be untenable.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John: "She's left this marriage a long time ago." [21:29]
• Chris: "Every time you say that to people, they're like, oh, there's got to be something." [26:02]

Insights and Conclusion: Dr. John emphasizes self-worth and the importance of not staying in a relationship where one partner is unappreciative and dismissive. He validates Chris's efforts to salvage the marriage but ultimately suggests that peace may come from acceptance and moving forward, highlighting the emotional toll of prolonged marital strife.

---

Caller Segment 3: Gerard's Quest – Building a Marital Roadmap Amidst Financial Instability

Gerard's Challenge
Gerard from Brighton, Tennessee, calls in at [33:30] seeking advice on creating a "roadmap to his heart" for his wife and fostering an environment where she feels comfortable doing the same.

Key Points:

• Desire for Connection: Gerard wants to deepen intimacy and connection within his marriage.
• Financial Struggles: He shares recent financial hardships, including the collapse of a business and inconsistent employment.
• Sense of Security: His wife seeks stability and consistency, which Gerard feels he currently lacks.

Dr. John's Guidance: At [38:58], Dr. John advises Gerard to "give yourself six months of working two jobs" to establish financial stability and demonstrate commitment. He emphasizes the importance of consistency and taking actionable steps to rebuild trust and security in the marriage.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John: "The least selfish thing you could do is to put your wants and needs on the table." [37:25]
• Gerard: "I think she's more analytical, very task oriented. She's extremely organized." [42:19]

Insights and Conclusion: Dr. John highlights the necessity of concrete actions to rebuild stability and trust. He encourages Gerard to prioritize consistent employment and transparent communication, suggesting that these steps can lay the foundation for a renewed and secure marital relationship. The conversation underscores the interplay between financial stability and emotional security in fostering a healthy marriage.

---

Episode Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Dr. John Deloney consistently emphasizes the importance of integrity, communication, and self-respect in navigating complex relationship dynamics. Whether dealing with betrayal within a community, enduring marital dissatisfaction, or striving to rebuild a relationship amidst financial uncertainty, the overarching theme is the empowerment of individuals to take control of their emotional well-being and make informed, respectful decisions.

Key Takeaways:

• Addressing Betrayal: Confronting issues directly and making peace with necessary changes are vital for personal healing.
• Recognizing Self-Worth: Understanding one's value is crucial in deciding whether to continue or end a strained relationship.
• Building Stability: Consistent actions towards financial and emotional stability can revitalize and strengthen marital bonds.

---

Notable Quotes

1. Rose's Grief and Anger:

   • "I kind of feel like I'm going through the grief cycle. Like, I'm really sad, and then I get really mad..." [01:30]

2. Dr. John's Perspective on Betrayal:

   • "Life is what somebody dropping a grenade in your lap at all times." [08:54]

3. Chris's Realization:

   • "She's left this marriage a long time ago." [21:29]

4. Dr. John's Advice on Self-Worth:

   • "You're worth being loved recklessly and celebrated." [25:23]

5. Gerard's Need for Security:

   • "She needs to see me healthy." [42:19]

6. Dr. John's Call to Action:

   • "Your next move is yours, my brother. And I'll support you either way." [26:09]

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show offers a profound exploration of the emotional landscapes that individuals navigate within their personal and community relationships. Through empathetic dialogue and practical advice, Dr. John Deloney empowers listeners to confront their challenges head-on, fostering environments where trust, respect, and personal integrity can flourish.

Transcript

[Rose]

How can I continue to participate in my church small group when I discovered an affair between one of the wives in my group and one of the husbands in my group?

[John]

This is awesome. Did the other partners know?

[Rose]

No.

[John]

Oh, even more awesome.

[Rose]

No.

[John]

Are you gonna tell them? Yo, yo, what's going on? This is John with a Dr. John Delo baloney show, taking your calls on your marriage, your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your kids, your workplace, whatever you got going on in your life. I'm so glad that you're with us. There's 8 trillion podcasts you could be listening to, and you picked us. So thanks for pulling up a seat at the restaurant and grabbing some chips and some queso and sitting with us as we figure out what's the next right move for a real person going through real challenges. Rose in Indianapolis. What is up, Rose?

[Rose]

Hi, John.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Four.

[John]

What's up?

[Rose]

Thank you so much for taking my call. I am such a big fan of yours.

[John]

Well, I'm a big fan of yours. I'm glad that you called. How can I help?

[Rose]

Yeah. Yes. Okay. So my question is, how can I continue to participate and grow in my church small group when I discovered an affair between one of the wives in my group and one of the husbands in my group?

[John]

This is awesome.

[Rose]

Yeah, I'm. I kind of feel like I'm going through the grief cycle. Like, I'm really sad, and then I get really mad and.

[John]

Do the other partners know?

[Rose]

No.

[John]

Oh, even more awesome.

[Rose]

No.

[John]

Are you gonna tell them?

[Rose]

Well, that's why I'm talking to you. I was hoping you would give me some.

[John]

Yes, you have to.

[Rose]

Okay, well, can I give you a little bit of the backstory here?

[John]

Sure.

[Rose]

Okay. So I've been in this group for about four years now. We have a total of five couples in the group, and between us all, we have 14 kids.

[John]

Is there a pineapple on the front porch?

[Rose]

You would think at this point, but no. Yeah, we get together every single Tuesday night. We have dinner together. We just get together and do life together. Basically.

[John]

A lot of life. A lot of life.

[Rose]

Clearly. Clearly.

[John]

So.

[Rose]

Yes. So one couple in particular has shared with us some of their marriage struggles. And I'll just refer to the wife as Sarah. So Sarah has been very open about the struggles in her marriage with our entire group. And so on the flip side of that, I recently started working full time after being a stay at home mom for about three years. And one of the coworkers that I've gotten close to knows Sarah. They have mutual friends. So she shared with me just a couple weeks ago that Sarah confided in her about this affair and shared details with her about who it was with. And it's details that I know she's not lying because she really shouldn't know any of these details. And they're really not that good of friends.

[John]

Like details like a mole on the back of his ear or like what kind of details.

[Rose]

The details consist of like knowing what kind of vehicle the husband drives that she's having the affair with. She knows when and how the affair started, which was back in December when the two of them, the Sarah and the husband, were planning the husband's. This is so confusing. The husband's wife's birthday party. That's kind of how it started, I guess, because they shared telephone numbers.

[John]

So walk me through what's your question?

[Rose]

Okay. So knowing this information, I sat on it for, for about a week. I process it with my husband, we prayed about it together. And I ultimately came to the decision that I just need to confront her about these things that I'm hearing. And so I did that. I took her to a coffee shop, sat her down and let her know, hey, I'm hearing these things. Is this true? And she denied everything. So now I'm kind of like, if this isn't true, I just, I'm not understanding how it's not true, how there's not any truth to it because of the details that my co worker knows. Does that make sense?

[John]

Yeah, totally.

[Rose]

So I just don't know how to proceed when I did the right thing by confronting Sarah. But I still feel this just awkwardness and I don't believe her. And so I don't know how to proceed.

[John]

I mean, there's, there's multiple things going on here. I think big thing number one is you have to grieve the fact that you did life with five families. For four years, every Tuesday, y' all shared secrets, y' all prayed together, you wept together, your kids played together. And okay, the affair, fine, the affair happened, but it's that you can sit down and talk to a friend heart to heart, and she just lied to your face.

[Rose]

Yes, that's. Yeah.

[John]

Right.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[John]

And yes, affairs shouldn't happen. And, but, but they do. I, this, this may sound crazy and I may get some flack for this. And I haven't even thought this all the way through. Just my two decades of working with student conduct, conduct issues, like from graduate students who are in their fif. The way to 18 year olds. I was always much more concerned about who they were the day after. Meaning people do stuff. They find themselves in situations. They make a bad choice, they make a bad decision, they do a thing that's so dumb. Who are you when somebody calls you on it?

[Rose]

Right, right, right.

[John]

And so you sat down with a friend that you trusted, that you poured your life out to and you thought had poured their life out to you, and she lied. Your face.

[Rose]

Yep.

[John]

And so that's the part I would deeply be grieving. Of course, I'm gonna grieve that these two marriages are now blown up and all that stuff. So I think, without question, you've. You and your husband are out of this group because it's like, what is it? 35 of it is untrustworthy.

[Rose]

Right, right.

[John]

And there's big, giant secrets being had in there. And now that you've sat down and talked to her, if she has any brain at all, she's deleted everything she told the person that she had the affair with. We're going to delete everything, change everything. And so everything is what it is, what it is. Right, right. And then it might just be he said, she said, she said, he said. What about. Are you friends with this other guy's wife? The one who's kind of the. The.

[Rose]

Yes.

[John]

How's that conversation gone? Have you met with her?

[Rose]

So we had our small group just this past Tuesday night. Sarah and her husband were not there, but the other. The husband. The other husband and his wife were there. And it was very awkward for me. It was very awkward for me.

[John]

Is Sarah ever going to come back?

[Rose]

Yes, they're going to come back. They. They're on a trip together, trying to work things out. So it just. It just reiterates the fact that she's lying to me because I think she's in, you know, cleanup mode right now. She's trying to clean up the mess that she made or, you know, damage control.

[John]

So has your husband sit down with the guy?

[Rose]

He has not. Should he? That was one thing we had talked about.

[John]

I would.

[Rose]

Okay.

[John]

And I'd probably phrase it like this. Hey, I know what happened. You don't have to explain yourself to me. You don't have to. But my expectation is you say something. I'm not just going to sit here and keep showing up every Wednesday with your wife holding your hand, who has no idea. And I know it's also not wise for anyone to assume that these spouses don't already know.

[Rose]

Right. That was the other thing. I'm like, well, maybe they know and they're okay with it. But maybe they're not.

[John]

Maybe they're not okay with it.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[John]

And here's the deal. At the end of the day, all you can control is what you can control.

[Rose]

Right.

[John]

Would you want somebody to sit down with your husband if he was having an affair with one of your friends? Would you want someone to. Would you want one of his friends to sit down with you if they found out he was sleeping with somebody else? You can only do what you can, can, can do. And then you're gonna have to choose. We're heading out of this thing.

[Rose]

Yeah. It's just heartbreaking because all of our kids are best friends.

[John]

Hold on. That's it right there. Yeah, don't, don't go past that. This is just heartbreaking. It's a mess.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[John]

In the old, in the, the way I learned, it was not by your hand, but in your lap. You didn't cause this. And here it is. The neighbor's house caught on fire and it was dry outside. And your house burned to the ground too. It didn't do anything. But now you got to clean up a burned down house. And it's just heartbreaking.

[Rose]

Yeah, it is.

[John]

You had a group of an awesome thing going and somebody else blew it up and then they lied about blowing it up. It's just. It's just heartbreaking.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[John]

How old are your kids?

[Rose]

I have a six year old and a three year old.

[John]

Yeah. They're not gonna understand what's up and what's down. And so you're gonna have weeks of why can't we go to whatever's house?

[Rose]

Mm. Yep. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's just heartbreaking. And then I just overthink and I'm like, well, maybe she's not lying. But I'm like, no, there's. There's something going on here.

[John]

But here's the thing. I. I'm saying this because of the tight knit nature of how you've painted this group. And I'm thinking of my friend Todd and my friend John and their wives Melissa and Jennifer and my wife John and. Or Todd would probably call me privately and the next time we all got together, it would all be put out on the table because we have that kind of closeness in our relationship.

[Rose]

Okay.

[John]

Because, hey, Deloney, your stupidity affected all of us. And so it's this. You did the right thing. You went to the person, which I think is the right way to handle it. Right. And you're sounds like you're a person of faith. That's the way the Bible says to do it, go straight to them. And then what does it say? Take a couple of people.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[John]

And so if you want to follow that, that model, I think that model works everywhere in and outside of faith communities. But go to that person. We're going to bring a couple people. Hey, here's the deal, man. Like we kind of know.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[John]

And now it's about a friendship. Now you're not being honest with the friendship.

[Rose]

Right, Right.

[John]

And then you'll have some decisions to make about where you're going to go to church and what groups you're going to get plugged into. And you'll have to grieve the fact that you had a good thing going and somebody else blew it up.

[Rose]

Yeah, we do, we do have leaders within our group and we did share with our leaders what we had heard. And they approached her as well and asked her the same things I did. And she denied it then too.

[John]

Of course. Of course she is. So.

[Rose]

Yeah, so hold on, but hold on.

[John]

If, if what you know is to be true, that she's a person who lacks serious character. And I know you're not supposed to rank these things, but there's difference between meeting somebody on a, at work or on a work trip and having a one night stand and then sleeping with one of your closest best friend's husbands.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[John]

Like there's layers and, and I'm sure, I know I'm up. An affair isn't fine. That just sounds worse to me.

[Rose]

Right.

[John]

So if that person is that kind of person, then I wouldn't expect them to suddenly develop a sense of integrity and character when they're called out on it.

[Rose]

That's true. Yeah.

[John]

They've already, they've already shown you who they are. And so I, I wouldn't keep going back to that. Well, you've done the first step. The, the way scripture lays it out, you've done the second step. Then y' all have some decisions to make. Now you can tell her she's not welcome until she wants to clear it up. And she could say, hey, this is our family private business. I'm not bringing it here. And you could say, well, hey, the whole point of a small group is that we all agree to share business. Yeah. That's the whole point of what we're doing. We're doing life together, which is good stuff. And it's when things get sideways and she's opting out. But if the leaders aren't going to do that and the other people in the group are going to Stay in the dark. Then you're going to have a choice to make.

[Rose]

Okay. I was afraid you were going to say that.

[John]

I mean, yeah, I don't really have another option. I hate it for you. It just is what it is. But, I mean, it just stinks. And whether this happens at work, whether this happens in church, whether this happens with friends or this happens with family members, it's just. Life is what somebody dropping a grenade in your lap at all times. Occasionally we have a grenade in our own lap and we pull the pin. But often life is just a series of dealing with other people's grenades. And I've just come to a point where my two guiding principles are I'm going to try to do my best to be a person of integrity. I don't always get it right, but I'm going to try to be a person of integrity when walking through cleaning up a mess that somebody else has caused in my life. And the second thing is I want to make sure that when the smoke clears on what just happened, that I can look in the mirror and still honor. I. I'm still a person of honor and integrity and respect. And that doesn't mean I'm gonna do it perfect. That means I'm gonna. I'm gonna spend the effort doing the next right thing. You, Rose, are at that point when you've prayed about it, you talked about it, you've thought about it, it's haunted your nights and your mornings. You think about all the time. You confronted the person you. You told the leaders of the group, and you're still back here at square one. And so now you've got that hard choices. I think we got to go or I think we got to put the all of us on the table. When everyone's sitting around the table. Let me know what you choose. What you choose to do, Rose. Let me know what you choose to do. I think everyone wants to know what's going to happen next here. And just FYI, at some point, Rose, you're going to have to answer the question, why did you not let Jack on the door, too? That was my Titanic joke, in case anybody got that. If you didn't get that, Kelly's just shaking her head at me. I thought that was a good one. No, not a good one. We come back, we talk to a man who has put everything into his marriage for the last 15 years and his wife wants nothing to do with it. We'll be right back. Father's Day is coming, and no dad that I know wants another tie if you're thinking of giving the dad in your life some gear that will change everything, let me tell you about Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth has changed my life. I can't wait to get into bed because they make amazing sheets and bedding. No more crashing on the couch and I can't wait to get in and out of the shower because Cozy Earth makes the greatest towels ever in the history of the planet. They're the size of a comforter and they stay soft even when you wash them with the wrong towels. I didn't even know that was a thing until my wife told me about it, but I did it and the Cozy Earth towel survived. And I've come to love my Cozy Earth sweat joggers, tees and lounge gear. They're soft, breathable and most importantly, they're durable. My teenage son has started stealing my T shirts and my hoodies. They're that comfortable. Make this a Father's Day to remember. No more ties and no more white button up dress shirts this year. Give the man in your life the gift of comfort with Cozy earth. Go to cozyearth.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to get 40% off. That's cozyearth.com DeLONEY with code DeLoney I love love love red light therapy and that's why I'm excited to tell you about my friends at Bon Charge. Our lives are lived almost entirely inside under the harrowing glow of fluorescent lights and in front of little screens. Im medium sized screens and big screens, then back to little screens. All this stuff affects our mood, our sleep, our anxiety and the studies are showing it. And this is why I love Bon Charge. Bon Charge is a world leader in red light therapy and EMF blocking gear. I use the red light therapies every single day. Red light therapy can help boost your mood, reduce stress and help with sleep. I use my red light therapy panels, the infrared sauna blanket, the EMF matt, all of it. And listen up. If your skin looks tired, check out Bond Charge's red light mask for skin recovery, collagen production and improve blood flow. I got the mask and I'm starting to look beautiful. Just wear it 10 minutes a few times a week for fresher skin easily. No creams, no appointments, it's lightweight and it's cordless. Go to bond charge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15% off your entire order. That's Bond B O N C H A r g e boncharge.com DeLoney and use coupon code DeLoney to save 15%. That's the salt Lake City. And talk to Chris. What's up, Chris?

[Chris]

Hey, Dr. John.

[John]

What's up, my brother?

[Chris]

Oh, just trying to make it through the day.

[John]

Let me know what's going on, man.

[Chris]

Oh, well, the question that I called in for, I'll try to not get too tongue tied, but the question I called in for was to see what I could do or how I could figure out what to do with my wife, who doesn't seem to want to be in this marriage anymore, doesn't feel like she's putting any effort in anymore.

[John]

Has she told you she doesn't want to be in anymore?

[Chris]

No.

[John]

Okay.

[Chris]

Every time that that question comes up, she says, oh, I'll try, I'll try, I'll try. But every time we're no longer in that conversation, I don't see anything.

[John]

What are some things she's not doing or that are signaling to you that she's not interested in being married?

[Chris]

She doesn't want to spend any time with me. She doesn't really seem to care about what's going on in my life or what's going on with work or anything like that. She spends most of her time with her family. And if I have anything to say about how I feel about what's going on, then it's twisted or turned against me. And if I bring up any instances of times that I feel like she's kind of dismissed me or put me off, then she says, no, you're twisting my words. That's not what I said. That's not what's going on. When I asked for clarification. Then she breaks down and says, oh, I'm a bad wife. I don't know what to do.

[John]

How long has this been going on, man?

[Chris]

A few years.

[John]

You have kids?

[Chris]

No.

[John]

How long have you been married?

[Chris]

Almost 15 years.

[John]

Okay, so how can I help, man? What are you thinking?

[Chris]

I don't know. I've talked with a couple of counselors, and they kind of get to the end of the line of questioning and say that there's not really much else that they can do. There's not really much that they can try. We've tried couples counseling, which she hated because the counselor asked her to make some changes that she was not willing to make.

[John]

Like what.

[Chris]

Specifically? The one that really made her angry was the counselor asked her to put some effort into the marriage, you know, making sure that she was involved in the decision making and involved in the. In growing the relationship. And she didn't like being Given that assignment.

[John]

Wow. Does she have psychiatric challenges or she'd been diagnosed with any sort of psychological diagnostic.

[Chris]

I don't know. I asked her to go and seek counseling on her own. After the marriage. Counseling didn't work, and she went for a couple of times. And I don't know if she either didn't tell the counselor or lied to the counselor, but they gave her a clean bowl of health and kind of moved on.

[John]

I mean, I don't have a lot for you. You've done all the things I would tell you to do. I guess my question for you is, are you gonna stay married?

[Chris]

Yeah. I don't know. That's kind of the.

[John]

How often do you. How often do you all sleep together.

[Chris]

In terms of, like, sexually or. Yeah, not very often. That was one thing she wanted to step away from fairly early on in the marriage.

[John]

So for 15 years, you've been dealing with a living within in somewhat of a sexless marriage.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[John]

And why no kids?

[Chris]

Couple of reasons. When we were first married, we were very poor.

[John]

Okay.

[Chris]

So that we didn't feel comfortable bringing in kids into a household that was that way. And then as we progressed and were able to get more finances taken care.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Of.

[Chris]

When I brought up the idea of children, she was not super receptive to that. She was really scared of the physical pain. She didn't want to become a person like her mother. She was very afraid of the unknown. And I said, okay, well, we can work through that together. Let's take the first step. She's had some medical issues in the past, and so we went and got those addressed. And that caused some questions and some issues with her family. And because her family got involved, all of a sudden, it was okay. Now we know have kids.

[John]

Why have you done this for. Why have you done this for 15 years? Just out of curiosity?

[Chris]

Because every time it gets brought up, she says that she'll try. And I don't know if I'm just too cowardly to step away or if I'm just too wrapped up in the ideas that maybe she try this time.

[John]

Yeah. I mean, you and I could probably talk for a couple hours and unpack that one. I guess. I guess, for whatever it's worth, she has left you. She left you a long, long time ago. She. She quit this marriage ages ago. And I don't know what she gets out of it. I don't know if it's financial security. I don't know if it is anchor security. I don't know what it is. But she spends most of her time with her family. She told you early on, sex is not going to be part of this. Sex and intimacy, which is a cornerstone of any romantic relationship. I'm up. We're not doing that. I don't want to build a future with you. I'm gonna walk out of a therapist office who says I need to invest more in this relationship, this primary, the like the highest order relationship in my life. When somebody says, hey, you need to invest in that, well then fine, screw you. I quit. We're not gonna have kids. Like, like she's opted out completely. And so I guess if, if nothing else, just hear me say y' all still have a piece of paper. But she left this marriage a long time ago. Y' all just happen to share a house a few nights a week when she's not at her parents house. And if that's the life you want to choose, if that's the life. If, if, if fidelity means I said till death was part and so be it, then I'll honor that choice for you. But what you will get is a continuation of what you've got, what you've. Your life has been. And so I would tell you, make peace with it. If you're down to birthday and Christmas sex and that's it, and she spends two days a week at home and the other five days with her parents, and that's just our life, then I would tell you to don't fight that. Make peace with it. It is what it is. If you want more for your life and you're recognizing that fidelity can mean or marriage cheating, if you will. To use a crass. We're like cheating in a marriage can be with another person. It can be with money, it can be on a golf course. It could be by just starving the marriage until it withers away to ash. Right? Just not watering the plant until it just dies. I. I have a much bigger view of fidelity in a marriage than most people do. But that's just me. But I guess hearing like I'm. You've done every single thing I would have told you to do. And it sounds like you fought for this marriage in every way. I would have told you to fight for it.

[Chris]

Well, that's comforting. At least I know that I've tried everything. Because whenever you say that to people, they're like, oh, well, there's got to be something.

[John]

I mean, you've gone to therapy, you've stuck it out for a decade and a half. You have made concessions. You have dealt with a lack of physical intimacy I mean, you. I mean, it's just been one thing after another after another after another. When she. When she is honest, what does she blame you for?

[Chris]

Everything.

[John]

Well, give me some examples.

[Chris]

She's blamed me for the relationship with her parents, in a sense that if there's anything that is wrong for that week or that day or whatever, then it's my fault because I didn't insert reason. She's blamed me for the reason why she's gained weight. She's blaming me for the reason why she's not happy with her work situation.

[John]

Those aren't even good blames. Yeah, if she blamed you for being a jerk or for always yelling at her or for being physically oppressive, I mean, but you just rattled off a series of decisions that she has chosen to make that she's blaming you for. So, like, she blames you for everything that she doesn't like about herself in her own life. What does she celebrate you for?

[Chris]

Nothing. I mean, as far as. Again, it. It feels that, like, I had a fairly large milestone last year in my career.

[John]

What's that?

[Chris]

And I earned my journeyman's license.

[John]

Congratulations, brother. That's a long time coming, man.

[Chris]

It was. And it was. It was a serious deal for me. And I told her the night before everything was finalized, and she's like, oh, well, great. You won't be so busy anymore. And that was where it ended.

[John]

I hate this for you, man, because if I'm hearing your side of the story right, you're a guy that's been grinding it out, making a quarter or half of what the wages in your. In your field for years, crawling through hot attics, cleaning buildings or going into cutting sheetrock and fixing things in buildings with no air conditioning for years and years and years to try and provide some sort of stability for a partner who repeatedly tells you both in word and action, I don't value you. I don't love you. I don't want you around here. And for whatever it's worth, man, you deserve a partner that's different than that. I absolutely hate this for you. I'm sorry.

[Chris]

Yeah. Like I said, I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about it all. And what you said, if I can make peace or not.

[John]

Here's the thing. I think you. I think you're scared of. I think you know how you feel about it. You wouldn't have called me.

[Chris]

Yeah, I think I'm scared of both options. I don't really want to start over. I mean, it's been 15 years. There's a lot of investment when we paid off the house and, you know, driving paid off vehicles and, you know, that's the financial side. But also, you know, we've invested time and energy in keeping this relationship together. And if that.

[John]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. No, y' all haven't. Y' all have. Not at all. You have. You have. Y' all have not invested in keeping this relationship together one bit. You have. And that's an exhausting, tiresome, frustrating, heartbreaking partnership marriage. You don't have a ride or die. Here. You have somebody that just complains when you drive the motorcycle out of town. There's a thing in business called sunk cost fallacy, which is I've already invested this much money in this company, so I have to keep investing more money. And successful people will tell you there's a time when you realize if I put another penny in this, then I'm just setting this money on fire. You make peace with it. And this is the life you, you want to say, I've chose this life and I'm going to make peace with it. Awesome. Then I'm. What I would tell you is you have to decide. I'm not going to complain or whine or be frustrated by any of this madness. I'm choosing this on a day to day basis. So be it. I'll high five you. You. Where is America? You can make those kind of choices all day long. I'll also tell you, if nobody's told you this, you're worth more than somebody who blames you for every breath youh take inside your own house, who doesn't celebrate with you, who left this marriage years ago and blames you every minute there's tension in the house. Your next move is yours, my brother. And I'll support you either way. But man, you're worth being loved recklessly and celebrated. And iron sharpens iron held accountable. You're worth a lot. A lot more. All right, listen. When we come back, a man shares his struggles trying to find ways to love his wife better. We'll be right back. Let's talk about digital privacy and delete me. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right back to us. And now scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a. They trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. You might get an email, a text, or a phone call. And the person or AI bot on the other end Sounds like someone who's trying to look out for you and take care of you, but instead they rip you off. With all this new technology, no one is really safe. So the question I have is what are we supposed to do first? You can start by controlling what you can control. You can learn about how to be careful online and offline and you can sign up with Delete Me. I personally use and recommend Delete Me because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. This way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data, selling it and sharing it. Delete Me has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me and they've removed my data from hundreds of them, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, stop the harassment and stop the other online threats before they even start. And take control of your digital privacy. With Delete me, go to joindeleteme.com DeLoney today for 20 off the annual plan and that comes out to less than $9 a month. That's join J-O-I n joindeleteme.com DeLoney let's go out to brother Gerard in Brighton, Tennessee. What's up Gerard?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, sir. How are you doing today, dude?

[John]

Rocking on to the break of dawn. What you doing man?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love it, man. I am sitting here about to talk to you.

[John]

Outstanding.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dangerously close to fantastic.

[John]

That's a good place to be. That is a good place to be. Kelly has never been there. She has never been to fantastic.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, maybe one day.

[John]

Well, I think her life is fantastic because she works with me, but she disagrees. But such it is. So what's up brother?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, John, I have a two part question for you. You mention oftentimes in your show that to ask your spouse and to give your spouse a roadmap to your heart. And so I thought about that many times when I've heard you share that. My question, first question is how can I build that roadmap for my wife? For my spouse. And then the second part is how can I better create an environment where she can do the same for me?

[John]

It's a great question. What do you why or how? And both of those questions, by the way, are questions counselors aren't really supposed to ask. Why? Lucky for you, I'm not a counselor, I'm just a YouTuber. Why or how do you feel you're not able to tell your wife what you want?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think that's probably the deeper question is I don't understand why it's so hard for me to know what I need.

[John]

Forget what you need. What do you want?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Peace.

[John]

Okay. What does that mean? Be specific.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Be specific. Sorry if it's. It's loud. It's starting to rain here in the car.

[John]

She yell? Does she yell at you? It's all right, man. Does she yell at you?

[Chris]

No.

[John]

She not like you. Let me rattle off a few things. Just answer yes or no. Does she not like you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think she likes me.

[John]

Does she seem disappointed in you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Probably, but probably even bigger, I'm probably disappointed in myself.

[John]

Okay. Does she roll your. Her eyes at you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

She can do that? Yes.

[John]

Does she think by action? Not even by words. Does she think she's. She does life better than you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't think so, no.

[John]

Okay. Do you want more sex and intimacy in your marriage?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would like better connection while. While it's happening, yes.

[John]

What. What does that mean?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just more. More connection. And instead of just an actual.

[John]

On her end or your end, when you're having sex, you want her to actually like it? Is that what you're saying? Or are you still replaying, I think, other activities you. I mean, other actions, people you've been with in your head?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, definitely not that on my end. Just where we're both freed up enough and our minds clear so we can actually just enjoy each other. Granted, we do have a toddler, so that's. That's a given. Yeah, there's a lot there. But yeah, just maybe distracted would be a good way to put it. But for me, for me just. It's hard for me. It's hard for me to put that list together of how to get to my heart. Because oftentimes I feel selfish when I'm making that list. Like, oh, I shouldn't ask for that or I shouldn't do this.

[John]

So what's, what's more selfish? What's more selfish? Having some things in your marriage and in your life that you want and then another person could help you with? Or is it more selfish to not say the things that you want and. Or need and then to blame that person for not giving them to you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. That's spot on. That's good.

[John]

The least selfish thing you could do is to put your wants and needs on the table. And by the way, I. I'm becoming more bearish on the word needs. Food, water, oxygen. That's what people need, right? They want sex and intimacy. They want you to help with the dishes, for God's sake. They want to not have to work a full time job and then come home and have to work Another full time job. And also get you off before you go to bed because you can throw a temper tantrum. Right. Those are all wants. What do you think she wants?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Security, consistency.

[John]

Stop with those two.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Schedule.

[John]

Stop with those two. Why are you not safe?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's been a hard financial season for us.

[John]

What does that mean?

[Dr. John Deloney]

A death of a dream. I worked on a business for multiple years and it looked like it was going really, really well. And then it all fell apart very quickly. And so there's a lot of dreams, I think, that were lost in that.

[John]

Yeah. Are you working now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm currently not, no.

[John]

Okay. By the end of tomorrow, you have to have a job. Whether it's at Walmart, whether it's at a yard crew. You got to have something. Okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[John]

And here's why. It's about dignity and it's about respect. And yes, she'll come along, but you don't respect you right now. And when people don't work, they lose their sense of purpose and dignity in themselves. Okay. This will be about you at least feeling like you're contributing in some short way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I feel that.

[John]

So if you came home and said, hey, this dream died, it, it may have died to the tune of, now we're in the hole $500,000 or a million bucks in debt, or it might have died. We don't owe anybody any money. But, man, I was all in on this thing. How long have you been out of work?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I do, I do like contracting work, like a security work.

[John]

When's the last time you brought him a paycheck?

[Dr. John Deloney]

A week and a half ago.

[John]

More than $1,000?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[John]

Okay, so you're working.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Off and on. It's been, it's been inconsistent. So I'll have really good, you know, paying job for a month and then there won't be anything for a couple of weeks and then another gig will come around. But I want to provide a stable, more stable environment where, you know, she knows when I'm going to be home. We know what our bills are every month and not the kind of up and down.

[John]

Give yourself six months of working two jobs that you clock in and clock out of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[John]

And put on a uniform and be frustrated that you're going to flip burgers or make eggs in the morning or that you're driving Uber for somebody. I don't know how much driving's going on in Brighton, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Give how much.

[John]

Yeah, probably not, but give yourself. Go throw boxes at tractor supply from 8pm I mean, from 3pm till 11pm and look your wife in the eye and say, I've just been sitting here waiting for life to happen and I've allowed you to feel unsafe and I'm sorry. Tomorrow I'm going back to work and this isn't going to be for my forever job. This is going to be my right now job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Word.

[John]

Is that fair do that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, it is fair. I can do that.

[John]

What was the next one you said? You said consistency. How are you not consistent?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't take this the wrong way, John, but I'm a lot like you, okay? I'm a creative brain. I'm an energetic brain. I get bored easy. I like change. And I think she's more analytical, very task oriented. She's extremely organized. She's incredible, you know, making lists and whatnot. I'm not that way necessarily. And I think for her a good schedule is important, but honestly, some of that is part of the work because they travel with me when I've done contracts. And I think she wants more of a consistency for her, for our daughter and for me. So schedule just knowing we're going to get up at the same time every day and this is the routine. And I think that that gives her a sense of security, a sense of health. She also wants to see me healthy. I've.

[John]

That's it. So we are alike in that way. Except the number of days I've been married and not had a job are zero. I've never not had a job. I've been miserable, but I didn't quit until I found the new one. I thought I was going to get laid off and I made sure I had four other lines in the water. And my wife got up two and a half hours before I did this morning because I was in another city last night and my plane didn't get in until super late and I didn't get into bed until early this morning. And so consistency. People will often default to the thing that they need to anchor into because the other person isn't a safe anchor. So sometimes that's booze, sometimes it's a calendar, sometimes it's pornography, sometimes it's work. My wife knows she can anchor into me. And so some mornings we get up at the same time, some we don't. And so I don't want you to, because what you're going to make your. What's happening right now is you're starting to make yourself the martyr on behalf of her. She needs this calendar. She needs us to both get up at the same time. She needs this routine she needs her husband to have a purpose.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's true.

[John]

She needs her husband to say, I've I wife. She wants to stay home with this baby. I've got us. And just because I get a job on a random Tuesday doesn't mean the whole family has to pack up and go. My wife and kids didn't go with me yesterday. They've got school, they've got work, they've got lives. And so I have the illusion of chaos, but my chaos runs on a treadmill that is bolted into the bedrock of the earth. Do you get what I'm saying? No, I'm. Okay. I'm a chaotic mess. But, dude, there's some things I don't compromise on. I take care of my physical health and I take care of my mental health and I take care of my marriage because I've been in seasons when I didn't prioritize those three things and it didn't go good and I prioritized my career. Well, I mean, even if you said you were going back to school, because I'm going to ask you, like, what are you going to do with that brain that likes to. That likes novelty, that likes excitement? Go be a cop that likes new things every weekend, that likes things not the same, but kind of the same. Go. Go be a therapist. Go be a firefighter. Go. Go start a lawn business and take. You know. You get what I'm saying?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely. Yeah, I get it. I need a purpose. I need. She needs to see me pursuing something.

[John]

Let me say this. I'm saying this, not I'm gonna use the word cheating, and that sounds ridiculous. I'm not. I'm not saying that in this case, but it a funny word. Okay. Right now she's having an affair with her calendar because that's the safest, most stable thing she knows.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[John]

I want her to have an affair with you. I want her to fall in love with the guy that she fell in love with before. The dreamer, the guy that was starting a business, the guy that was all in. The guy that worked late hours, the guy that was trying to make things happen, that was hustling and moving. I want that guy to come back. And that guy got knocked out. Every fighter gets knocked out, Right? What was the job you were doing?

[Dr. John Deloney]

The business.

[John]

Huh?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It was in defense industry.

[John]

Okay. What did you like about defense?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Creating. Building something. Or not necessarily building something, but creating something. Using my mind to mold and shape something and. Yeah. Building something from the ground up.

[John]

Okay, I didn't hear in that answer. Keeping People safe. And so if the defense industry was just a particular place where you were allowed or you had permission to build things with your mind and create things, then you can build and create things at Home Depot. You can do that in the construction business. You can do that in the mental health space. You can do that at churches. You can do that anywhere. If you are put on earth to keep people safe, then go sign up for the police academy tomorrow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's definitely my. Definitely one of my purposes to keep people safe.

[John]

Sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The police been there, done that. And the schedule and the constant stress level was just. It was not my, not my jam. So I have high respect for anybody that can do that. But it wouldn't have been good for my mental health.

[John]

That's a tough gig. How many jobs have you had since you've been married?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Three.

[John]

Okay. How long have you been married?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Three years.

[John]

Okay. That's a lot of change for her.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[John]

For a mom of a brand new baby.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I get that. And can I also get grounding like you said?

[John]

Yeah. It's just. It's just she gotta have something to anchor into. Can I tell you what I think would really help with this anchoring conversation?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Please.

[John]

You find somebody not her. You find somebody that can keep your baby for a few hours and take her out and just say, I've grieved the loss of this business long enough. You've got to have something to anchor into. So I'm just saying out of the front of the gate, I'm sorry. We got married three years ago. I've been through three jobs which looked like three different careers and I'm looking unstable to you. And I get the fact that you're holding this baby tight and you are feeling like you're lost in the wind. I get it. And would you be willing to build a second marriage with me? And my guess is she's going to say absolutely, yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[John]

And then ask her what must be true for you to feel safe. And you see what I'm saying? Here's why this is important. In this order, it's you going taking a knee at that table. I provided this. I've provided this lack of stability. I've run through three careers. And by the way, bro, I've been through so many careers at this point, who cares? But here we are. I don't have a job. I've got. Things are fishy. I'm sorry that I put you here. Will you rebuild something new? Absolutely. Gerard, I love you. Let's do it. Okay, cool. How can I love you. Starting right now, by the way, we got to be done here at three because I go to work. What? I go to work. I'm going to tractor supply. Sixteen bucks an hour. I'm start tonight. And as for me in my house, I'm a clock in and clock out because there's no job beneath me when it comes to providing and giving my wife stability and safety. I'll do this for six months. And while I'm doing this for six months or a year, I'm going to be applying out to other jobs. I'm going to be going to see a counselor. I'm going to be talking to people so that I can begin to get my feet underneath me. And what you're going to find is you're in the ocean and you feel like you're drowning, but the water's only three feet deep. Once you stand up, it's going to come up to your waist. You can be like, oh, man, I'm good. But right now it feels like you're out. Out at sea, and that's okay. I'm really grateful for the call, brother. You call me anytime. We'll get you to the front of the line and I'll. I'll walk with you every step of the way. Every step of the way. But today we're going to start with action. No more thinking about it. We still grieve the loss of this business, but we're going to go and we're going to take action. Thanks for the call, man. All right, coming up next, something awesome happened, and Kelly's going to tell us about it. And no, she did not get her tattoos removed. We'll be right back. All right, Staloney again to talk about my friends at Organifi. Every day I talk to people who feel overwhelmed. And I don't just mean emotionally. They're physically worn out. They're mentally burned out. They're anxious, not sleeping well. They just feel foggy and disconnected from everything. And most of them are trying to push through with a combination of coffee and willpower. Can we all just agree what you're doing probably isn't working? Redlining your body every minute of every day is burning you and your loved ones to the ground. And that's where Organifi comes in. Organifi makes organic superfood blends and gummies. I love the gummies that are designed to support your body, your mind, and even your emotions and not set everything on fire. You just mix organifies superfood blends with water and you're good to rock and roll. And for me that's green juice in the morning for focus, red juice in the morning and in the afternoon for clean energy without the crash. And I love my happy drops to boost my mood. And the she legit gummies help me feel like a laser beam. Look, most people don't have to overhaul their entire lives to start feeling better. You just have to listen to your body and make some small daily choices. And you can start with my friends at Organifi. Go to Organifi.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to save 20% off. That's 20 off everything with code [e-mail] DeLoney all right, Kelly, what's something awesome that happened?

[Kelly]

All right, this is from Jessica in Salem, Oregon.

[John]

Ooh, which trials?

[Kelly]

That's Salem, Massachusetts.

[John]

Wrong. Salem. Yep. Right when I said it.

[Kelly]

Yep. All right, so she writes she.

[John]

You were like. I was there. Trust me, dude, that was a deep cut right there. That was a witch joke and an age joke.

[Kelly]

I know. I less take less offense about the witch 100 more about the age part.

[John]

Fair enough. Exactly right.

[Kelly]

All right, she writes, I started listening to John about a year and a half ago. About a year ago, my husband and I started talking about how to pursue peace in our life. We realized that it started with our home and our finances and decided to reverse engineer it. We sold the home that we'd lived in for less than two years in an unsafe part of town and moved an apartment so we could save up for a house that was peaceful and pay off the last of my husband's school loans. Thanks to an unexpected windfall and despite some hardships, we arrived at our goal much sooner than expected and are now moving into our blessing house with cash to spare for some updates, new furniture and a good sized emergency fund. The steps we took to reversion to near peace actually caused a much more peaceful way of life before we ever achieved the goal. Thank you.

[John]

Awesome. Dude. I love love love. I want to start that movement. Kelly, stop solving for some dollar amount stop solve for peace. Just whatever that looks like in your house, wherever you happen to be. I'm going to solve for peace. And that doesn't mean you're not going to have seasons of great Looney Tune chaos. That's great. But overall we are solving for we're headed towards. Ah, so happy. I'm home. That's awesome. What was her name?

[Kelly]

Jessica from Salem, Oregon.

[John]

Way to go Jessica from Salem, Oregon. That's all I'm gonna say. About that. I'm proud of you. Good call. If only Kelly could also find peace. Peace out later.