Two People in Our Friend Group Had an Affair

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show
Episode: “Two People in Our Friend Group Had an Affair”
Date: December 26, 2025
Host: Dr. John Delony (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on real-life relationship dilemmas, focusing especially on a close-knit friend group's betrayal and its emotional aftermath. Dr. John Delony listens and offers incisive, empathetic advice to callers wrestling with personal and interpersonal crises: the collapse of a friend group after an affair, questions about pacing in new relationships, a survivor grappling with meaning after an organ transplant, and an awkward familial boundary issue. His tone oscillates between direct, compassionate, and humorously candid as he unpacks the realities of human frailty and hope.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Betrayal Within a Close Friend Group

Caller: Davis (Starts 00:05, main discussion until ~13:06)

• Situation: Davis shares the recent discovery that one friend in their tight group had an affair with another’s spouse. The fallout has shattered the group; there's anger, broken trust, and tough public ramifications, as the individual involved holds a prominent local position.
• Dr. Delony’s Perspective:
  • The close friend group as it was “is over”—"Somebody else threw a grenade inside your house, but you’re the one standing on your front lawn as your house is now in rubble." [03:06]
  • Layers of Betrayal: While Delony would support a friend who blew up their own marriage, he draws a line at intra-circle betrayals: “If one of my buddies slept with another of my buddy's wives, that sense of intra-tribal betrayal would be something that I couldn’t sit with you on.” [04:08]
  • Advice: Don’t chase after the person who left and don’t involve yourself in their new endeavors. “He threw the grenade, then took off down the street. Don’t go chasing him to make yourself feel less worse.” [05:44]
  • Group Integrity: Remain above gossip and resist making the affair the center of conversation; foster healing by not engaging in moral grandstanding. [08:48]
  • On Professional Overlap: If Davis can’t work with the individual anymore, discuss it honestly and, if necessary, step down, but “don’t let yourself be associated with someone whose choices you can’t stand behind.” [10:54–11:32]
  • Contextual Insight: Delony cites studies that indicate personal ethical lapses often parallel professional misbehavior: “You can't be a great guy in one place and a terrible guy in the other.” [12:10–12:17]
• Coping Together: He stresses the importance of Davis and his wife reassessing and reconnecting as they process the breach of trust in their community. “Shake up the snow globe a little bit. Reassess. Are we still good?” [13:06]

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2. Relationship ‘Love Bombing’ and Pacing

Caller: Connor (Starts ~17:29, main discussion until ~28:29)

• Situation: Connor feels patterns of “love bombing” (overwhelming rapid-intensity displays of affection and commitment) in his relationships, leading to fast flame-outs. He wants to understand if he’s being inconsiderate or unhealthy in how he starts relationships, and what realistic boundaries look like.
• Dr. Delony’s Perspective:
  • On ‘Love Bombing’: Love bombing reduces the other person to a stage for your own validation. “If you are doing this big performance...that can be intoxicating for you, but the whole thing is for them to look at you…it basically makes you a vampire.” [21:52]
  • Emotional Boundaries: Instead of wringing hands over pace and feelings, “just go out, have fun…treat people with dignity and respect.” [22:44]
  • Love vs. Feeling: “Love is a choice you make every day…all the sparkly Romeo and Juliet nonsense is so untrustworthy because it’s just fleeting. It’s not real.” [27:11–28:15]
  • Practices: Delony suggests tangible boundaries—limiting contact frequency, being mindful about sexual involvement, and honest conversations about pace.
  • Notable Advice: “Stop overthinking things and do the next right thing…don’t live in a world where you say ‘I just can’t help myself.’ Because you can.” [28:29]

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3. Letters to an Organ Donor’s Family and Survivor’s Guilt

Caller: Allison (Starts ~32:18, main discussion until ~44:00)

• Situation: Allison, 14 months post-liver-transplant, has written to her donor’s family. She struggles with ongoing medical issues, survivor’s guilt, and questions about whether writing the letter was “enough.”
• Dr. Delony’s Perspective:
  • On Grief and Guilt: “Survivor’s guilt can absolutely rot you…sometimes we do kind things because we’re looking for the family to reach back and tell us that it’s okay. And that probably is not going to come.” [34:57–35:35]
  • Making Meaning Out of Loss: “You have to make peace inside your own chest that you have a reason and purpose, that you’re going to continue to scratch and claw for this gnarly, elusive thing called hope.” [35:30–35:53]
  • Living ‘Round Two’: Dr. Delony urges Allison to envision the kind of grandmother, mother, wife, and community member she wants to be—not as abstract virtues but as vivid, specific identities: “Don’t wait for the world to hand you things. Say: I’m going to go live my life on this world.” [40:37–42:18]
  • Letter to Self: He recommends she write a letter to herself, five years in the future, expressing gratitude for the choices she’s starting to make now. [44:00]

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4. Familial Boundaries: Elderly Relative’s “Romantic” Feelings

Email Question Read by Kelly (Starts ~46:44, main discussion until end)

• Situation: Elderly male relative develops feelings for a much younger (early 20s) family member, causing discomfort and confusion.
• Dr. Delony’s Response:
  • Directness vs. Niceness: Parents probably should have let their adult daughter handle it, but it was reasonable to step in given the family context and unusual dynamics.
  • On Boundaries: “I don’t ever want my daughter to feel like she has to, out of the kindness of her own heart, go lead on an elderly man or have lunch with some older man.”
  • Humor and Realism: Dr. Delony and Kelly inject levity, but reaffirm: “Are you the problem? No. But also, step in if there’s a real risk. Otherwise, let your daughter be an adult.” [51:35]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Betrayal and Group Fallout:

  • “Somebody else threw a grenade inside your house, but you’re the one standing on your front lawn as your house is now in rubble.” – John Delony [03:06]
  • “If one of my buddies slept with another one of my buddy’s wives, that sense of intra-tribal betrayal would be something that I couldn’t sit with you on.” – John Delony [04:08]

• On Handling Gossip:

  • “Talking about it any further is a choice to be miserable, and it’s a choice to falsely try to elevate yourself… Not talking about this guy. He’s not going to be the focal point of our conversation moving forward.” – John Delony [08:48]

• On Parallel Personal and Professional Integrity:

  • “Turns out you can’t be a great guy in one place and a terrible guy in the other place. It just kind of is who you are.” – John Delony [12:10]

• On Love and Relationships:

  • “Love is a choice that you make every single day. That come what may, I’ll be right here.” – John Delony [27:20]
  • “The pinnacle of love is two teenagers who snuck away from their families, got secretly married just so they could sleep together and then had a murder suicide ending. Star-crossed lovers. It’s such a charade. It’s not real.” – John Delony [28:15]

• On Survivor’s Guilt and Rebuilding Identity:

  • “You have to make peace inside your own chest that you have a reason and purpose, that you’re going to continue to scratch and claw for this gnarly, elusive thing called hope.” – John Delony [35:30]
  • “All this goes back to that letter you wrote…What’s important is you not waiting for them to make you feel okay. Because it’s probably not going to come.” – John Delony [44:00]

• On the Awkward Family Scenario:

  • “If one of my uncles is trying to hit on my daughter, I’m stepping in. That’s different than a stranger.” – John Delony [51:49]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:05 — Davis begins describing the friend group’s betrayal
• 03:06 — Dr. Delony explains the finality of the group’s collapse
• 04:08–05:44 — The difference between supporting a struggling friend and intra-group betrayal
• 08:48 — How to handle gossip and lead with high integrity
• 10:54–12:17 — Decision points on professional association after betrayal; ethics parallel
• 13:06 — Encouraging reconnection and open discussion with spouse after group trauma
• 17:29–28:29 — Connor’s “love bombing” discussion, boundaries, and advice on real love
• 32:18–44:00 — Allison’s post-transplant letter, survivor’s guilt, and identity exploration
• 46:44–end — Email question: elderly relative inappropriately interested in young family member; boundary discussion

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Tone and Style

Dr. Delony’s tone is alternately firm, compassionate, and playfully irreverent. He normalizes difficult emotions—anger at betrayal, confusion during crisis, guilt when surviving—and gently but consistently points back to honesty, dignity, and agency. The banter with co-hosts and callers preserves authenticity, even while confronting raw and awkward realities.

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Conclusion

This episode is a rich exploration of complex relational dynamics—betrayal, pacing in intimacy, existential meaning after trauma, and healthy boundaries—all filtered through Dr. Delony’s mix of warmth, wisdom, and wry humor. His recurring theme: honesty, intentional choices, and the humility to feel and move forward in the messiness of real life.

Transcript

[Davis]

I have a question about a friends group situation. Basically, last weekend found out that one of our good friends was having an affair with one of our other good friends.

[John Deloney]

Is that like a close friend group?

[Davis]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

Oh, sweet man. Cause why not, right? Geez Louise. What up? What up? This is John with Dr. John Delay, Lone Show. I'm so grateful that you've joined us. Talking with men and women and mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and sons and daughters all over planet earth, talking about your emotional health, your psychological health, whatever's going on with your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life, I'll sit with you and we'll figure out the next right move. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 184469332 91. Or you can go to john deloney.com/aS. Okay, let's go out to Omaha, Nebraska and talk to Davis. Hey, Davis, what's up?

[Davis]

Hey, John. It's a weird one, but I appreciate all that you've done since day one. Been listening and learned a lot. But I have a question about a friends group situation, and it's kind of troubling and haven't had this happen before, but basically last weekend found out that one of our good friends was having an affair with one of our other good friends inside.

[John Deloney]

Inside, like a close friend group?

[Davis]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

Oh, sweet man.

[Davis]

And correct. And I kind of blew up old school style.

[John Deloney]

Yes, I imagine so.

[Davis]

Coming, coming home from a work trip and we've kind of suspected a few things were happening but didn't really have any proof for a long time. And earlier this month, sat down the guy and asked him point blank and, you know, tried to address it head on, saying, these are some of the things I'm hearing out in the public and, you know, lied to me, you know, straight to my face. And that hurt. And now, you know, kind of picking sides, choosing sides, or how do we, how do we navigate this going forward? And he's kind of a public position, kind of in our smaller town of economic development.

[John Deloney]

And so this, this dude hooked up with somebody else's wife in your friend group.

[Connor]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

Oh, man.

[Davis]

Of a different friend.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. So. So I think, I think first and foremost, this friend group is over.

[Connor]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And trying to preserve what was is over. And that's, that's heartbreaking because you didn't do it. Right. Somebody else threw a grenade inside your house, but you're the one in your front lawn and your house is now in rubble. So that just is the second Thing here is, here's. And it might sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. So I'm thinking if I've, I've got a tight knit group that goes back years, okay. If one of those buddies, whether it was one of my women buddies, one of my husband buddies, if he came and was like, hey, I need y' all to know, like we've been ride or die for 20 or 30 years, I've been having an affair and things are about to blow up. And I just want y' all to know I'd sit with, I'd sit with that buddy, I'd sit with him and say like, I mean you can count on me. And, and the, and the, the joke, but not joke among all of our friends. What like my closest male friends was if you ever blow your marriage up, your wife can stay with us, right? Like she can come stay with us. I'll still be your friend. But just know we're going to, we're going to. So that's, that's kind of the always. We've talked about it, but the idea is I'll sit with my buddies when life happens to them, even when they've been both the match and the gas. Here's where that's different. If one of my buddies slept with another one of my buddy's wives, that sense of intra tribal betrayal would be something that I couldn't sit with you on. You're going to have to do this one by yourself because I wouldn't trust you within the bounds of our tight knit relationship. Does that make sense, right?

[Kelly]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

And I can see where that does. That kind of falls apart if you kind of pull that all the way out. Because if someone's going to violate their wife, then they might violate you. I get all that, but there's just a, to me, there's a different layer of betrayal there. And then you throw on top of that, you sat down, looked another one of your close buddies eye to eye and said, hey man, you, here's what I'm hearing. I'm, that's you basically extending an invitation. I think it's reconciling. This guy has walked away from who you are, who y' all are. And that's heartbreaking and I hate that for you.

[Davis]

Yes. And yeah, totally agree. And that's what it was. It was an invitation. And you know, loved your analogies about the 911, you know, building something new. And it's shared that. But kind of the other flip side of it is you Know, his wife and family said they're done. Maybe this wasn't the first time. And, you know, the woman that he's been having this long affair with may not stay with him, and they may even leave town. And, you know, like, you know, nothing's happened. And I think he's gonna. I haven't even talked to him at all. And we were very close, and. And I just don't know. Kind of don't.

[John Deloney]

Don't go chasing him to make yourself feel less worse. Yeah, he walked away from you. He. He threw the. He threw the grenade, and then he took off down the street. And if you chase him down to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, man. Hey. You see what I'm saying? There's a difference there.

[Davis]

And I'm just definitely not chasing. But also, you know, he's trying to go from a distance that, you know, still involved with, you know, economic development and city council things that I don't know if he's trying to stick with.

[John Deloney]

That and it doesn't concern you. He took his story and he's writing it somewhere else, and he's. He's opted out of you being a part of that. So I would tell you, you don't get a vote into what he's trying to do. If you don't want a guy with that kind of integrity running your town, you can vote against him, you can run against him, whatever. But trying to figure out what's he trying to do, what's his next move? Dude, I would stay completely away from that.

[Davis]

Okay?

[John Deloney]

He showed you who he was. Not just that he blew his marriage up. That happens. And people give me a hard time for. It doesn't just have. It does. It just happens. And I'll sit with somebody if they pull the pin on a grenade and it blows up in their own lap, I'll sit with you, dude. We'll help figure it out. If you throw it at me and my family in my. And. And get even beyond me. I'm so hyper protective of my other friends and their spouses. Like, if you blow up somebody else's life and this other person blows up, like, like, dude, you've walked away now. He calls you back in six months and says, I've blown up everything in my life and I'm at the end of my rope. Will you come have coffee with me? I'd go, yeah, because that's. I mean, but I don't know the. The depths of your friendship, but, dude, I would. Even if his wife, who's probably one of your close Friends. Also, if she starts calling you, hey, can you believe I would stay out of the. I wouldn't say anything negative because you never know when people get back together. And if you're like, yeah, he sucks, but she'll always remember in her heart what you said about her husband.

[Davis]

Yeah, right.

[John Deloney]

And vice versa. So I would stay at it if she needs help. You know, I'm. I'm a Christian guy. The Bible says be with widows and orphans. And those kids don't have a dad. They're not technically orphans. They don't have a dad. So they can come to my house, I'll take them out to dinner, that kind of thing. But, man, I'm not getting involved. And he said, she said. And I'd probably tell her, hey, I'm not. I'm not a good place. I'm too close to this. I'm not a. I'm not in a good place to talk about him or the situation. You can always come stay at our house, and you can always come have him. You and your. And your kids can always come eat at our. At our table. Right? We'll grieve with you, but I'm not going to be a gossip mill with you.

[Davis]

And that's. And that's. And she's got a lot of support, which has been great. And I guess I haven't thought about that piece of. I know you've said it in the past of, you know, not to trash him. And even. Especially with kids. So how do I shut down other people, you know, if they're talking in a group and how horrible it is and other stuff keeps coming out.

[John Deloney]

I think you need to be a person of high integrity and leadership here, okay? Because what's happening is, is everyone. There's some great work by Dr. Richard Beck on disgust psychology, but when somebody does a thing, one of the things we like to do is to point out how gross the thing is. And it could, because it gives us distance and it gives us moral virtue instantaneously. I may yell at my kids or I may watch too much pornography, but I'm not that right. And suddenly I go up two rungs on the moral ladder that I go around judging the world with. Yeah, and there's nothing to say, this guy blew his life up. He blew up your friend group. He blew up your family. Talking about it any further is a choose. Is a choice to be miserable, and it's a choice to falsely try to elevate yourself as to, look who we're not. What a waste of time. You Know what I mean? So I think it's important to be like hey, when y' all around me, we're not talking about this anymore. Not talking about this guy. He's not going to be the focal point of our conversation moving forward and you may get ostracized for that. So be it.

[Davis]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Correct.

[Davis]

And I guess the final kicker, this economic development group. I've been part of it for the past 12 years since it started and president for so many years and just moved to past president. And so. And he's the executive director of that. And I don't know how to navigate one. I can easily just resign and have nothing to do with that program.

[John Deloney]

But what do you lose if you resign.

[Davis]

Of the program's reputation.

[John Deloney]

Getting the reputation's tarnished. It's. It's got a person with no integrity who's the executive director in a small town. Right. It's not like you can. It's not like you're in Houston. You can hide this. It just everyone's gonna know.

[Connor]

Correct.

[Davis]

And I mean that's not a fireable offense. But didn't know if there was anything worth talking to him about of move on type thing.

[John Deloney]

I think if you've drawn a line in your mind that says I won't be on this council with him, maybe an integrous thing to do would be to take him out to her coffee and say hey here's the deal. I'm a long time friend of yours. So I'm coming to you direct face to face. I can't work side by side with somebody that will lie to my face. That will blow up our friend group that will like sleep with somebody else's wife in our friend group. Like I can't be a part of that. I'm asking you to do something courageous and have integrity where you have in the past. And I'm asking you to resign your position.

[Davis]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

He might tell you to go blank yourself. Like screw off. I'm not doing that.

[Davis]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And cool. Then you can resign the next day if you've drawn that line. That I'm not going to be associated with this guy. Because let me tell you what, there will be other things that come out.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

There's that real famous Ashley Madison study where the two social psychologists studied it and basically they. Long story short, men and women who are business leaders and who have rep. Have. Have demonstrative. They cheat on their. On their spouses. They also have business. A higher instance of business infractions. Ethical violations.

[Davis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Turns out you can't be a great guy in one place and a terrible guy in the other place. It just kind of is who you are.

[Davis]

Makes sense.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Okay.

[Davis]

So, no, that definitely helps and kind of reiterates a lot of what I was thinking.

[John Deloney]

And can I tell you this, though, brother? You get to be sad.

[Davis]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

I hate this for you. Hate your buddy lied to your face. Hate your buddy slept with your other friend's wife. I hate that she slept with her other friend's husband. I hate that you're all intertwined like this. It's like the best parts of a small town are y' all eat together, you worship together, y' all work together, you play together, and then one person or two people blow up something. You can't go to the movies, you can't go to the grocery store, you can't go to church, can't go anywhere. And I hate that for you.

[Davis]

Correct. Yeah. It is unreal. So. But again, appreciate all that you've done through, you know, all the different podcasts that you've been on. It's been awesome. Learned a lot and shared a lot.

[John Deloney]

I appreciate that. One thing I'd recommend you do is you and your wife go out and talk and put on the table, how do you feel about this? Do you have any questions that have come up? Because it wouldn't be weird for your wife to be like, hey, your best friend on the planet did this. Are we okay? And it wouldn't be weird for you to think that about her. It's always good to go out and have. When we have these life defining moments, like, you know, you bury a parent and it's important for you and your spouse to go out and be like, hey, what do we want on our tombstone? What do you want our funeral to be? Like, what do we like about that? Or not. And those are hard. But that's part of the processing, as part of the healing, and it's also part of the growth. I think it's important for your marriage to go out, you and your wife, just. Just shake up the snow globe a little bit. Reassess. Are we still good? Any questions you have for me for, like, not me, can we just be sad together? This is wild. Can't believe this has happened in our town with our friend group because it kind of blows up what you know to be true. And it's good that you and your wife re. Establish yourself in firm footing before y' all just head off into the new world. So, man, I hate it for you, brother, but I appreciate you thinking through it with me and man, your willingness to call in is gonna help a lot of people navigate in the same yes, thanks for the call brother. We'll be right back. I got three dogs inside my house right now. Yes, it's chaotic but I love my dogs and I also know how stressful it is when you're traveling with pets for the holidays. You're going to be on the road away from your regular vet and you're going to need some sort of pet care. What are you going to do when you're on the road? Call Dutch because Dutch has your back. Dutch is the leading telehealth service for pets. Gives you 247 and access to licensed veterinarians. Dutch can treat over 150 common pet conditions and you can get expert care in minutes. No waiting rooms and no long waits to get in. Just a 10 minute call from home and you and your pet get a treatment plan. A Dutch membership covers up to five pets that includes unlimited visits, unlimited follow ups and prescriptions shipped for free. With my code. All of this is less than seven bucks a month. You heard that right. Less than seven bucks a month. That pays for itself fast because you spend that much just to see a vet in an office one time. The average pet owner saves over $800 a year with Dutch. If you've ever felt helpless trying to get care for your pet, Dutch gives you the peace of mind you've been looking for. Go to Dutch.com DeLoney and use code DeLoney to get 50 bucks off a year of vet care. That's Dutch. D U t c h Dutch.com DeLoney use code DeLoney the holiday seasons are here. It's my favorite time of year and it can be a challenge to slow down and just be present during all the chaos. With everything going on, I want you to ask yourself right before Christmas, who on your list deserves a gift that can help them relax this holiday season and into the new year? I want you to think of that person or those people and I want you to get online and order them. Cozy Earth's Bamboo Sheets these sheets keep you cozy without overheating and they help you sleep several degrees cooler. And it's perfect for snuggling on winter nights without getting too hot and waking up refreshed the following morning. Cozy Earth has something else that's incredible. It's called the Bubble Cuddle Blanket. I didn't name it, but it is awesome. It's like a giant teddy bear. It's great for family movie night or for cuddling by the fire. It turns every occasion into a special occasion. Cozy Earth sheets and blankets are more than gifts. They're a way to help your loved ones relax and recharge in everyday luxury. As always, cozier products come with a 100 night sleep trial. Try them out and if you don't love them, you can return them hassle free. But I am telling you, you're not going to want to head to cozy earth.com and use code DeLoney for up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozy co z y cozyearth.com DeLoney use code DeLoney. All right, let's go out to Santa Barbara, California and talk to Connor. What's up, Connor?

[Connor]

Hey, how's it going, John?

[John Deloney]

I'm great, brother. How are you?

[Connor]

I'm doing all right.

[John Deloney]

Very cool. What's up, man?

[Connor]

Hey, so I've been watching a lot of videos, trying to, you know, work on being a better partner in relationships recently, and you know how it goes.

[John Deloney]

Can I, can I interrupt you just right before you even get going?

[Connor]

Yeah, totally.

[John Deloney]

Are these videos helping? Because I've been wondering that lately.

[Connor]

I don't think so. I think it's mostly just mindless entertainment, but.

[John Deloney]

Okay, okay. All right. Because I, I thank you for saying that because I've been watching, wondering, like, and there's calls that don't make air on my show. There's calls that, like, there's private conversations I have over and over again. But anyway, just wondered like, someone's like, hey, how do I do this in X, Y and Z with my spouse? And I'm like, have you asked them? And they're like, no, but I watched 40 videos anyway. All right, I'm just wondering. Thank you for sharing that mindless entertainment. All right, that's cool. I'll go with that. All right. So what's up?

[Connor]

Yeah, so I've heard this term love bomber being used a lot recently in the past couple months. And at first I kind of like wrote it off as like, oh, you know, people are just like regretting relationships that they've been in. But I think, like, I've been looking more into it and I feel like I do share a lot of traits with what some of these people describe as a love bomber. And I'd like to learn how to better manage the pace of my relationship so that I can be more considerate and be a better partner in that aspect. So, so what do you think you're doing?

[John Deloney]

What do you think you're doing wrong?

[Connor]

So over the past two Years. All of my relationships have been, you know, super, super fast paced. Like, one to three months maximum. Like, sometimes, like, the milestones, the relationship milestones come really quickly, like within like, a couple weeks or a week.

[John Deloney]

Relationship milestones, you mean you meet somebody, you go out once, you get kind of bananas, you text a thousand times, then you are going steady.

[Connor]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, exactly.

[John Deloney]

And then. But it's like jet fuel. And then it burns out in, like, three months. Y' all don't like each other?

[Connor]

Well, so far it's like, other than my first girlfriend, who I was, like, absolutely obsessed with, like, to an unhealthy degree like the rest of them, I feel like they've still had feelings for me by the time that I break up with them. And I try to be respectful about it. Sometimes it's a little bit of a hectic situation. It's a little difficult to end things amicably, but I don't think it's always even. There's been like one or two where it's been pretty, like, easygoing on both of our sides. Sometimes I feel, like, spineless in a way. Like, I know that they want this and I, you know, give them something that maybe I don't truly feel all the way. I think sometimes I genuinely do feel that way. And maybe, like, I've heard people talk about, like, pacing yourself. Even if you do feel a certain way, you know, you still have to know that, like, you can't put your whole self out there immediately.

[John Deloney]

And it's.

[Connor]

It's hard to know, like, what. What the right move is and to distinguish those feelings.

[John Deloney]

Okay, here's the thing. If you look at the interaction with another person as a move, or if you look at the. The interaction with the other, with another person as a game to play, you've already lost.

[Connor]

Right.

[John Deloney]

If you meet somebody and you like spending time with them, that's awesome. Spend time with them. If you meet somebody and you don't. You don't. It doesn't. You don't hit it off. Great. Love bombing is this idea that. That somebody else is a performance for you.

[Connor]

Right?

[John Deloney]

Right. And so if you are going out with people and you are doing this big performance, you're, like, really going for it. You are over the top. You're like. That can be really intoxicating for you. But the whole idea, the whole thing you're rolling out for somebody else is for them to look at you. It's not for them.

[Connor]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And so if you need. Basically, that makes you a vampire. You're Using somebody else in. In what I would consider a vulnerable state. A first date where they're asking, do you. Do you see me and do you like me? And you're like, oh, do I like you? Right, right. That's predatory. And so if that's what you're doing. Yeah, stop doing that. And that might mean you got to put some brakes on it. Doesn't sound like that's what you're doing. Unless I'm missing something.

[Connor]

Yeah. Really, the only. The only. There was, like, one time where I felt, like, pressured to, like, say something, but for the most part, like, it's just. It's hard to know, like, what is like, like differentiating different feelings of good. Like, is this feeding my ego or is this, like, genuinely, like, I really like this person? There's a mix of both. And.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, but that's like postmodern mumbo jumbo. Just go out, have fun.

[Connor]

Right, Right.

[John Deloney]

And if you think you like them, say, I think I like you. And if they're like, oh, wow, too fast. I don't like that, Then they're not the right person for you.

[Connor]

Right.

[John Deloney]

And if they are, then cool. And if three weeks later you're like, hey, I. I went way too fast and I'm sorry, then you're going to learn from that. But trying to get all existential about. I. I think we just are staying our heads too much. Treat people with dignity and respect. PM Melody has a really remarkable classic work called Love Addiction, where people. It sticks when we have dozen. Another. Whether you get addicted to the thing or that thing gets you your addiction of choice, which is alcohol or numbing behaviors or whatever. But regardless, people who are obsessed are addicted to user language with that first over the top, like, just nuclear reaction phase. But as Arthur Brooks talks about, there is a point when your body goes back below baseline and it doesn't feel super great and you get that tension. Like, why haven't they called B back? Where. Where are they? And you start texting them 500 times. It's that weird back and forth. It. It feels painful that you just have to tolerate. It's just part of it. It's. It's neurochemistry. It's just part of getting close to somebody.

[Connor]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

It's not always. It's not always. What do you call it? It's not always cotton candy and fireworks. It just kind of is. But.

[Davis]

Right.

[John Deloney]

How are you meeting these people? So I have a hypothesis. See if I'm right.

[Connor]

The last four girls that I've met have all Been in bars. I've tried dating apps. I haven't really been introduced to anybody, like, organically, like through a common activity other than bar hopping or karaoke or whatever.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so if you. If you stuck your hand in a. In a paper sack and you got bit every time, how long would you quit putting your hand in a paper sack because there's a snake in there biting you.

[Connor]

Ideally the first time.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so you've gone to bars four times. That's not working. You've tried dating apps? That's not working. Is there other ways to try?

[Connor]

Yeah, I'm sure there are. I would like to say that the girl that I'm with right now, I did meet her at a bar and I think, you know, I tried really hard to, like, keep things going slowly at the beginning. You know, we didn't do anything the first night that we met and, you know, we went for a long date the next day. And, you know, I've been talking with her for the past month and it's.

[John Deloney]

Been.

[Connor]

Well, more than talking, but I. She seems like somebody who's. Who I really do want to be, like, in that steady paced, like, consistent, loving relationship with.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Connor]

And do that right.

[John Deloney]

Like. Like, don't overthink it.

[Connor]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And set some boundaries for yourself. I'm not going to be sexually active because I know how I get after I sleep with somebody. I'm only going to text you once a day because I know how I get.

[Davis]

Right.

[John Deloney]

We're gonna go out once a week or twice a week. Because when I go out seven times a week, I get broke, I get frustrated and I start to get antsy. Like, I don't know what you're. What, what. What your boundaries are.

[Connor]

I haven't really had any.

[John Deloney]

I know. And it's. And it's crashed and burned. And by the way, going back, you can meet people in bars. That's amazing. That's great. It hasn't worked for you.

[Connor]

Yeah, no, I understand what you were saying. Yeah, I didn't mean to.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah. Man. If you met somebody great. Have you had this convers?

[Connor]

We've had conversations about pacing and stuff. And in some ways it feels like the cat's already out of the bag. Like we've already, you know, said I love you and, you know.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's pretty fast, dude.

[Connor]

And I mean it. I do feel it.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. But love's not a feeling. But I also get that's why you keep burning things through.

[Connor]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Love is a choice that you make every single day. That Come. What? Come. I'll be right here. I won't move.

[Allison]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

Love is something you practice. In fact, many of the greats for most of human history, until recently love, I mean love as in these sparkly Romeo and Juliet nonsense, was so untrustworthy because it's just fleeting. It's not real. It's these. It's these little. They're just cool shapes and clouds that go by. And think about this dude, how insane this is. Our, our modern. The. The pinnacle of love is his two teenagers that snuck away from their families, got secretly married just so they could sleep together and then had a murder suicide ending.

[Connor]

Right?

[John Deloney]

Star crossed lovers. It's such a charade. It's not real. And so you could say I love you, but what you're really saying is I feel all. All oogly googly right now.

[Connor]

Right?

[John Deloney]

You see what I'm saying? Because if you truly love somebody, then I'm gonna stand by you as your mom dies of cancer. And I'm gonna stand by you and we have nothing. And I'm gonna stand by you when you make. When I find somebody else. Like you're texting somebody else on your phone and we're gonna figure it out. And that, that. You see what I'm saying? That's a. It's a choice that you make every day. It's not chasing this, this how do I feel and how do I feel and I don't know how I feel. And I want to think about it and am I doing this? And I. It's a choice to wake up every day and for all of us, I've. I'm going to choose to exercise every day. All right? I got to put some boundaries in place. I got to make some commitments and stick to them. I have want to make X amount of dollars. All right? This can take this kind of work. I want to be this kind of dad and this kind of husband and this kind of family member. Okay, I'm gonna have to make some choices. Same as I want to be this kind of person in this kind of relationship. Then I got to set up some boundaries. And you know that for you, I wouldn't recommend anybody saying I love you in the first 30 days you meet somebody and then. I mean it. I. I mean, okay, I wouldn't recommend anybody saying like are sleeping together in the first 30 days you meet somebody, you're starting a chemical cascade that's really tough to think clearly when you're stuck in that. But all. But here's the deal. That ship is sailed for you guys. Now the choice you have to make is can y' all be completely open and honest with each other as you walk this next path? What does that mean? I feel like we're going super, super fast. And I told you I loved you and I don't even know if I know what that means. I just know it feels good when I'm around you. That's honest. That's me putting it out there. I'm starting to feel different and weird, but I'm also feeling more connected to you. Like it's. It's a decision that we're not going to have secrets and we're just going to walk together. I hope that helps. Ma', am, my recommendation for you is check out that book by PM Melody. If that helps. We'll link to it in the show notes. It's just a masterpiece. But even deeper than that, or in addition to that, stop overthinking things and do the next right thing. And don't live in a world where you say, I just can't help myself because you can. You 100%. Whatever the thing is in front of you, you can. You just gotta make some choices and put up some roadblocks and have some boundaries. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right. Most of the stuff on supplement shelves is just garbage. If I'm going to take a supplement, it's got to be amazing. And that's why I've been taking Thorn supplements for years. When it comes to my mind and my body, I don't mess around. I use Thorn supplements for sleep, for performance, and for keeping my brain on track. So whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, a dad trying to show up for his family after a long day at the office, you deserve only the best. And when it comes to supplements, I want proof, not hype. Most companies outsource production, production and skimp on testing. Not Thorne. They make every product with science, not spin. In their world class facility In South Carolina, 35% of Thorne's employees work in one place. Quality control. And they reject 15% of the raw materials. Because good enough is not good enough when it comes to Thorne supplements. It's why pro athletes, Olympic teams, and over 60,000 doctors trust Thorne. And that's why me and my family have been taking Thorn for years. Stop guessing about what's going into your body. Take what it actually needs and nothing that it doesn't. Go to thorne.com,/the letter u/deloney to get 25% off your order when you create an account that's t h o rne.com/the letter U slash Deloney Thorn supplements are the best. All right, let's go out to Lexington, Kentucky and talk to Allison. Hey, Allison, what's up?

[Allison]

Good morning, my friend. How are you?

[John Deloney]

I am dancing on the ceiling like Lena. Richie, what are you doing?

[Allison]

Love it. Love it. I just got back from doing labs from the doctor and prayers that are all are good. But the reason I'm calling is I had a liver transplant last July, so I'm 14 months post.

[John Deloney]

Are we holding up?

[Allison]

I'm still in rejection, thank you for asking. I'm on three anti rejection drugs, not weaning from any of them anytime soon. Hope in the next six months. Yeah, but thank goodness for medicine.

[John Deloney]

Can we exhale and say that's frustrating too?

[Allison]

Oh, it's really hard?

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's real frustrating. I'm sorry. I know everyone tells you you're supposed to be so grateful that you got a liver and blah, blah, blah, but it also stinks.

[Allison]

Last year can kiss my butt.

[John Deloney]

There you go. Yeah, I'm with you on that one, sister. All right.

[Allison]

Okay. So I went to Florida last month by myself and wrote a letter to. To my donor. I did three parts. So I did a letter directly to the donor. I did. So it's one letter combined into three. The donor and the donor's family. And then I told just a tiny bit about myself, the letter. Since I called in the first time I have mailed the letter and I called my social worker this week and it is. It has been. They have received the letter.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Allison]

So I guess it's kind of a two part question of, you know, how, you know, what things could have better been done about the letter, if anything. And what. How do I handle if I don't hear from them?

[John Deloney]

There you go. That's what I was looking for. And I'm smiling with you. Okay.

[Allison]

Right.

[John Deloney]

There's this sense, okay, Tell me if I'm wrong. Okay.

[Allison]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And I love being wrong. So I can hurt my feelings one bit.

[Allison]

Okay. I trust you.

[John Deloney]

But there's those frustrating nights when you're taking meds again and you're taking meds again. And there's those nights that you're not sleeping and there's those nights wondering, is this one going to ultimately have to be redone again that it's easy to go to. Why. Why not me instead of him?

[Allison]

Why did my donor survive and not myself?

[Connor]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Yeah. And, oh, survivor's guilt can absolutely can rot you.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Allison]

There's no doubt about that.

[John Deloney]

That's right. And so sometimes we do kind things. We write letters like that because we're looking for the family to reach back out and tell us that it's okay.

[Davis]

And I don't think I was.

[Allison]

That I was the receiver.

[John Deloney]

You're looking for somebody else to make you feel okay. That you have somebody else's heartbeat inside your chest.

[Davis]

Correct.

[John Deloney]

And that probably is not going to come.

[Davis]

Oh.

[John Deloney]

You have to make peace inside your own chest that you have a reason and a purpose, that you're here and that you're going to continue to scratch and claw for this gnarly, elusive thing called hopefully. And you now have an obligation to go live because you got. You got around two and most of us don't.

[Allison]

Oh, 100. And it's happy and sad. I know, at the same time that you had your old self. But basically, I came home August 10th. I was in the hospital for four months. Came home August 10th, and I had a. I had to learn a whole new me. My whole life.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Allison]

My whole life is like, who in the hell. Okay. Hello. Nice to meet you.

[John Deloney]

But also. But also, behind your eyes, you're still you. And it's a weird juxtaposition, right?

[Allison]

Oh, yeah. Confusing.

[John Deloney]

It's. There's the word. Don't use the other family to try to unconfuse you. That's not their job. Their job is to grieve with you. And what you've given them is one of the greatest gifts I think you could possibly give someone. And that is the person that we loved who's passed their life had one more additional meaning. And in some way they're continuing to go on.

[Allison]

And I got the chance.

[John Deloney]

And then you get the chance. Hopefully you put in that letter or if they reach out to you, hopefully there was something about. So here's who I'm gonna become with round two.

[Allison]

I didn't go there.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Allison]

I tried to keep it. I tried to keep it as little about me as possible.

[John Deloney]

I get that. But you have to see that in some ways, the memory of the person they lost and you have been merged.

[Allison]

Oh, yes. Because of this person, whomever he she might be. Yeah, absolutely.

[John Deloney]

And so I've heard from veterans who say, like, who struggle with the. Why me? When they're. When their buddies got killed right next to them, that the greatest. The greatest thing they can do every morning is to get up and not recklessly. That's the word. I like to use but just recklessly go live. I'm gonna say yes. I'm gonna start that business. I'm gonna go on the adventure. I'm gonna love insanely. I'm gonna hug my kids. I extra. I'm not going to scroll on Instagram because life's too precious.

[Allison]

Correct.

[John Deloney]

And so that now I'm going to go live because I got two lives to live now. And there's something really romantic about that and really like pretty mesmerizing and exciting about that. It can also be really heavy and overwhelming when just living your life is tiring.

[Allison]

Correct?

[John Deloney]

Right.

[Allison]

Yeah. But it's. But it's not a bad tiring.

[John Deloney]

No, it's just exhausting because you're always wondering if you're new, if you're. If you're. There's got to come a point when you're so frustrated with your body, like why you keep trying to kill me. It's exhausting.

[Allison]

That, that. Yes, yes, yes. There are many complications.

[Davis]

Correct.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

And then the doctors come in with this miracle surgery and then your body's like, nah, that's. And when you can't trust your own heartbeat, that's. That's. That's unmooring, right?

[Allison]

Unmourning.

[John Deloney]

Unmooring. Like it's. You feel untethered. You feel like you're at a boat out at sea with no motor. Right. You're just floating out there.

[Allison]

No, no, Lord, no. No. I felt more anchored. Absolutely.

[John Deloney]

So let's do this. Tell. Tell all of us who are listening, tell me, who are you gonna go be?

[Allison]

I'm gonna be me.

[John Deloney]

Okay. What does that mean?

[Allison]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna. I am in the process of starting a new business. Our daughter is getting married in a month. I'm gonna look forward to grandbabies down the road. I look forward to many more years with my husband.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so all those things are external. You're hoping somebody gives you more years. You're hoping somebody gives you grandkids. You're so hoping somebody has a good event. I want you to. To. To paint me a picture with identity. I'm going to be that crazy grandma who out wrestles my 4 year old. I'm going to be that crazy grandma that shows up with googly eyed glasses and I take my grandkid out and we go to the. To wherever and watch elephants at the zoo. I'm gonna be that older wife that is so grody, commodity, handsy with my husband that I make everybody uncomfortable at the at the coffee shop like you. I'm gonna be that, that mom, that proud, proud mama at my daughter's wedding who dances so much, people think I want to be like her. So you see what I'm saying? Like, it's not you waiting for the world to hand you these other things. It's you saying, no, no, no, no. I'm going to go live my life on this world.

[Allison]

I, I feel like I'm, I'm definitely stepping in that direction.

[John Deloney]

Tell me what it is. Tell me who you're going to be.

[Allison]

I am going to be a strong, independent happy.

[John Deloney]

Boo. Boo. Who are you going to go be? Who you could go be.

[Allison]

Don't boo me.

[John Deloney]

No, I'm just playing with you. Who are you going to go beyond? Because happy's a drug. Strong and independent is like a, It's a. I don't know. It's something you read out of, like, Reader's Digest from back in the day. Like, like, paint me a picture. What kind of grandma are you gonna be?

[Allison]

Present.

[John Deloney]

I like that.

[Allison]

I like that available, nurturing kind.

[John Deloney]

Yes. Okay. What kind of mom are you going to be as your daughter transitions to this new phase of her life?

[Allison]

I am proud. I am encouraged. I am hopeful. I am. I'm tickled pink, I guess.

[John Deloney]

Okay, you're. It sounds like you're proud of your baby girl.

[Allison]

Oh, and my son. Yes. He's just not there yet.

[John Deloney]

And you're gonna make. So you're gonna be the kind of mom who blesses her kids, doesn't anchor her kids. And so if you haven't already, write your daughter a letter and tell her how much, how proud of her you are, and be specific in it. Tell her what you see in her that she might not be able to see with herself, and send her in her new marriage and send them off. See what I'm saying? Like most kids. You know what I'm saying?

[Allison]

Yeah. Well, I did write them one letter telling them to remind them to put their seat belts on.

[John Deloney]

That's not the same one. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's like, hey, can y' all be 10 years old one more time? Okay. What kind of wife are you gonna be in this new phase?

[Allison]

Well, I, I, I hope to have more adventure, not so much trips, but just, you know, not things you really want to talk about on the radio, but, you know, you want.

[John Deloney]

Oh, yeah. So here's the thing. Like, I want you to spend some time with that question. Who am I going to be? What kind of wife am I going to be? What kind of woman am I going to be? What kind of grandmother am I going to be? What kind of community member am I going to be? And then the goals are going to reverse engineer out of that. I want to be that kind of wife that is just like, I've got the best marriage and me and my husband are best laughing, hilarious goofball friends. Or we're not, we're just not goofy people like that. We are sit by the. By each other on the couch and drink coffee and read the newspaper because we're so cool. We still get the newspaper, like, whatever it is. But I want you all, I want you, you to spend some time. And all this goes back to that letter that you wrote. That family. They may reach out to you and say, thank you so much. It may be too painful for them, and that's okay. What's important is you not waiting for them to make you feel okay. Because it's probably not going to come.

[Kelly]

More.

[John Deloney]

More likely, I want you to begin to say, okay, well, my body continues to. To fight this, this other organ in my body until it finally makes peace that we're going to live. Here's who I'm gonna be. And not with a bunch of adjectives that you stitch on pillows or cute little sayings, but like, very specific. I'm gonna be the kind of grandma who, who's present. Cool. So anytime I have a grandkid in the room, no phones, they're gone. They're gone. I'm going to be the kind of mom that is so proud of my daughter and she's going to know it. We're going to. We're going to reverse engineer this. All of this is about. You got two people to live for now. This person who gave you a second shot in you. And that's an amazing gift. But that, that vitality is going to come from the inside out. It's going to be a choice you make, too. Go take on the world. Not that you hope the world will give to you. I wish you the absolute, absolute, absolute best in these upcoming adventures, Alison. And I'm gonna be honest. I'm glad that you're with us. The last person I want you to write a letter to is Alison. Write a letter to five years from now Allison and tell her thank you for the things you started doing right now so that five years from now, Allison could become the woman, mom, grandma, mother, wife, whatever that you want, business owner that you want her to be. I'm glad you're still with us. And I'll keep talking to you year after year after year. We'll be right back. This time of year, we're giving away our time, our money. And sometimes, without meaning to, we're giving away something way more personal. Our personal data. And this is why I use and recommend Delete me. I like a good deal as much as the next guy, but I want you to remember that every email click, every newsletter signup you do this holiday season is yet another piece of your personal life that you're handing to someone else. And that information often doesn't stay with them. Shady data brokers grab it, bundle it, and sell it. Your name, your phone number, your address, all of it's floating around out there in some digital wilderness. And that's how you end up with all those spam calls and weird texts that make you feel like someone's watching over your shoulder and checking out your digital life. If you want to take back your privacy and your peace, you need delete me. They're like a digital cleaning crew. They find your information on these data broker sites, they get it removed, and they keep it gone. Peace does not just come from turning off notifications. It comes from knowing your data is not for sale. And right now, you can get 20% off your annual plan. When you go to JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney that's join J-O-I N JoinDeleteMe.com DeLoney all right, we're back. Kelly, am I the problem or you?

[Kelly]

All right. This is from Shelley in Pennsylvania. An elderly male relative in his early 80s took a liking to my daughter, who's in her early 20s. Let me finish reading.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Kelly]

After his wife of many, many years passed away in 2020, so the daughter's in her early 20s. My daughter has been kind and talked with him on occasion because she knew he was lonely. She has absolutely no romantic interest in him whatsoever. He asked her to go to lunch with him, and out of the goodness of her heart, she said yes. He took it to mean that she was interested in him. She was just going to be kind to a relative. He called his daughter and told her that he had a girlfriend at church. And then his daughter called my husband and stepped. And then the husband stepped in and he talked to the man and said a relationship with our daughter was impossible because one, he's a relative. Sorry, John. Hope y' all can see John. Right now he's struggling. Two, the age difference, and three, our daughter wasn't interested in him romantically. The elderly man talked to another one of our daughters yesterday and told her to tell her sister that he still has feelings for her. According to the elderly man's son, he blames us for stopping their relationship. Are we the problem? Should we have stayed out of it and let our daughter handle it on her own? So clearly they don't think anything should have happened, but they're wondering, should they have let her handle it because she is an adult? There you go.

[John Deloney]

Kelly. We're doomed. Just as, as, as a society, I don't think we're gonna make it.

[Kelly]

I can come at it from a little bit different direction.

[John Deloney]

Yes. They should have let her handle it.

[Kelly]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

And she didn't.

[Kelly]

Right. She was being sweet and being kind.

[John Deloney]

Correct. An 80 year old widow is probably.

[Kelly]

Benign and he's probably insanely lonely.

[John Deloney]

Yes. And so I don't, like, I don't see a risk or anything like that here other than breaking an old man's heart. I don't ever want my daughter to feel like she has to quote, unquote, kindness of her own heart is going to go lead on an elderly man or is going to go have lunch with some older man. Like, I don't. So there's some parenting gap there somewhere that I don't know. Like, I don't know. But that's not what the purpose of this is. I don't know that there's a problem here. I think there's just an 80 year old man and everyone's trying to be nice and nice and nice and I don't really care what his son thinks. I could care less what his son thinks. I could care less with anybody. I could care less what he thinks. And here's the other. Let's just. We're gonna get gross. Let's get gross. If they're 20, whatever. How old was her daughter? 25.

[Kelly]

She just said early 20s.

[John Deloney]

Their 25 year old daughter wants to date an 80 year old man. There's not a thing you can do about it.

[Kelly]

But she doesn't.

[John Deloney]

She doesn't. So she needs to tell him.

[Kelly]

Right. And it's a relative. Lots of, lots of things here.

[John Deloney]

Well, I was going to leave Jerry Springer out of this, but here we are. Let's wish it all. We. Joe, can you get like a Jerry. Just, just have a button that you can start pushing. Yeah. And there's also sick. So gross to relative.

[Kelly]

I wonder if there's any sort of. Is there any dementia on this man's part? I mean he's, he's, it is no.

[John Deloney]

I think they would have included that. I think just gross. I think just gross.

[Kelly]

I think maybe just lonely and bad.

[John Deloney]

Decisions and gross and gross. Because here's the other thing. When my daughter is 20, I'm trying to do the math real quick. My dad will be in his 80s. His brothers will be in their late 80s. My uncles and. No, no, no, no. On any front. And I hope that my daughter would go have lunch with her great uncles and not have to worry about getting hit on and that my daughter would go out and have adventures with her great uncles because they're my great. My uncle. My. My uncles. Her great uncles are hilarious men that I would love for my daughter in 20 to just be that young, 20 beautiful, like, hanging out with her crazy great uncles. That'd be hilarious. But she needs to be able to do that and not worry about all across the board here. So I don't even know what to say. Are they the problem? No. But yet I don't know. What do you think? Is there a problem here? Other than there's an old gross man?

[Kelly]

I don't think there's a problem. And that's why I wonder if there's some form of dementia starting or something, because if, like, had he ever displayed any of this kind of behavior before?

[John Deloney]

I don't know, and it doesn't sound.

[Kelly]

Like it, so maybe there is something happening.

[John Deloney]

But let me throw this in. If one of my uncles is trying to hit on my daughter, I'm stepping in. That's different than a. Than like a stranger.

[Kelly]

I think the father was totally in line to say, and probably politely say, hey, this isn't going to happen.

[John Deloney]

Gross, gross, gross.

[Kelly]

So I don't think anybody's at fault.

[John Deloney]

And this show just ended weird, Kelly. I guess it started weird, too. It's just such is the show, America. We'll see you next time. Be nice to each other.