Wife’s Ex Is My Child’s Godfather

Summary

The Dr. John Delony Show

Episode: Wife’s Ex Is My Child’s Godfather
Date: April 15, 2026
Host: Dr. John Delony (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Dr. John Delony Show dives into complex, real-life relationship dynamics through three major calls:

1. Caller #1 (Dawson): Struggles with his wife’s double standards regarding friendships with the opposite sex and controlling behaviors.
2. Caller #2 (James and Laura): A marriage rocked by long-standing infidelity, questioning whether real change is possible after betrayal.
3. Caller #3 (Mary): A wife wrestling with anxiety and losing respect for her partner due to recurring patterns and perceived lack of initiative.

Dr. Delony offers his signature blunt, compassionate, and practical guidance, focusing on core issues of communication, self-respect, emotional maturity, and the hard realities of rebuilding trust or moving on.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Wife’s Double Standards and Control (Dawson’s Call)

[01:08–18:37]

Main Issue

• Dawson’s wife demanded he cut ties with a female co-worker (based only on unease, no evidence), making severe threats (leaving him, restricting access to their daughter).
• Meanwhile, she maintains close, personal contact with male coworkers and even chose a former boyfriend to be their daughter’s godfather, which she hid from Dawson.
• This perceived double standard, lack of open communication, and threats of abandonment have crushed Dawson’s sense of agency and self-worth.

Dr. Delony’s Advice

• The real problem isn’t just the double standard, but the inability to resolve conflict or foster connected communication:
  “Y’all don’t have a roadmap for conflict. You don’t have a roadmap for connected communication together.” [08:40]
• The marriage is marked by resentment, lack of respect, and harsh statements from Dawson’s wife (“she has told me that she does resent me...she doesn't respect me and that she's embarrassed to be my wife” [09:37]), which Dr. Delony identifies as a deep sign of issues:
  “Bro, lead with that next time.” [09:48]
• Dr. Delony reframes the situation as one where the wife may already have left emotionally, trying to force Dawson to “pull the trigger” legally:
  “Your wife is done with the marriage... and now it’s just a matter of who’s going to sign the papers.” [14:47]
• Advice for moving forward: Become a man you respect; model stability for your daughter, regardless of your wife’s volatility.
  “Can I look myself in the eyes and do I respect what I'm doing next?” [16:15]

Memorable Quotes

• “It appears to me your wife does not like the life she signed up for, and she's holding you responsible for the choices that she has co-created together with you.” [09:19]
• “You’re playing a really long game right now, because you made a human with somebody who treats you like crap and does not want to live in reality.” [17:02]
• “At the end of the day, brother, that’s literally all you can control here.” [18:40]

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2. Infidelity and the Hope for Change (James & Laura’s Call)

[22:03–36:56]

Main Issue

• James admits to years of self-centeredness, detachment, and repeated infidelity (emotional and physical; issues predated marriage).
• Laura is at her breaking point, having repeatedly allowed boundary violations in the hope of change, only for cycles to repeat.
• Now legally separated, Laura questions if change is even possible for “cheaters,” and whether to pursue reconciliation.

Dr. Delony’s Advice

• Change is possible, but rare and extremely hard. Both partners must acknowledge their marriage “as it was” is over and commit to building something new from scratch. “You will build something that is... will stand the test of time and will change your family tree. But anything short of that becomes the same, like, as you said Laura, the same loop de loop cycle.” [29:23]
• Practical next steps:
  • Design a true, adult separation (no punishing/policing or carrot-chasing for the kids)—write out terms, agree, and hold to it.
  • Use structured communication:
    1. Here is what I see happening
    2. Here is the story I made up about what happened
    3. Here’s how I feel
    4. Here’s what must be true/what I want next
       [35:12]
• Both must decide whether they want to be partners, rather than caretaker/child or adversary/confessor:
  “Laura, you have to decide. I want to be a wife, not a mom. ... James, you have to decide. I'm going to stop being a little boy. I'm going to be a grown man who honors my wife and loves my kids.” [36:24]

Notable Quotes

• “My wisdom for my daughter will be, I hope I have raised you in a way where you know that no matter what decision you make, I will be right here with you.” [29:57]
• “Do I think change can happen? Yes. Is change in this kind of situation hard? Unimaginably hard. Has it been done? Yep. I’m with people all the time who have put in the work.” [37:02]

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3. Marital Stalemate, Anxiety and the Feeling of Uneven Partnership (Mary’s Call)

[38:45–58:11]

Main Issue

• After 12 years together (4 married), Mary feels stuck in repeated arguments and is losing respect for her husband.
• She describes a dynamic where she feels like she “owns everything”—“I am this ocean with all this chaos and things underneath... he's just a boat on top, along for the ride.” [42:52]
• Tasks are shared but she feels he lacks initiative, being “along for the ride.”
• Mary struggles with pervasive anxiety (family, kids, health, world), has started therapy and medication, but still feels isolated and emotionally exhausted.

Dr. Delony’s Advice

• Chronic conflict is normal (“69% of marital conflict... is pervasive. It will always be there.” [41:07]), but marriage can’t function if one person always feels unseen.
• Mary’s anxiety and sense of control may be coloring her perception, creating a shifting standard for her husband he can’t meet. She must separate what’s actually wrong from her emotional experience:
  “People generally go where they are celebrated. ... I feel that. And the challenge I want you to wade through is, I feel this, good. That feeling is important to acknowledge and to metabolize. And then we have to ask ourselves, is this feeling true?” [47:04]
• Reframes husband’s helpfulness as real partnership: “He sounds like a guy who's doing what he can to help somebody who's really struggling. Does that sound right?” [55:02]
• Concrete steps:
  • Continue therapy and focus on practicing “driving through anxiety”—don’t let fear decide responses.
  • Use new daily habits to intentionally connect (he gifts Mary the “Building a Non-Anxious Life” book and the “Together” app for micro-habits to reconnect).
  • Practice gratitude and avoid “mom-ifying” the partnership; acknowledge both partners’ struggles and contributions.

Notable Quotes

• “It could be a lighthouse for us, as we say. I want to get that too.” [58:11]
• “Your body would be failing you if it let you exhale inside your own skin, knowing you don’t have anybody you can call in the middle of the night...” [52:22]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Emotional Abandonment:
  “She’s left you. The question is a, can y’all get together and rebuild something awesome? But ... it does take both of you.” [10:13]
• On Self-Respect:
  “I want you to become a man that you respect... and that means treating everybody, your wife included... with dignity and respect while I tell you here’s what must be true for this marriage to continue.” [12:10]
• On Conflict Cycles:
  “It just always happens in every relationship I was in. And unfortunately, in this relationship ... I did physically cheat with a coworker.” (James) [24:20]
• On Boundaries and Patterns:
  “I have let him cross my boundaries so many times... Every time I tell him no more... talks me into, manipulates me.” (Laura) [26:02]
• On Rebuilding After Betrayal:
  “Our marriage is over. It’s... in ash. It’s over. Do we want to rebuild something completely new from the floor up or not?” [29:11]
• On Perpetual Problems:
  “The Gottmans report that 69% of marital conflict is what they call pervasive.” [41:07]
• On Partnership and Roles:
  “There’s a season when... I need you to carry 80% because I can only carry 20 right now because I’m doing all this work on getting well and whole.” [55:14]

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Key Timestamps

• Dawson’s Call (Double Standards & Divorce Threats): 01:08–18:37
• James & Laura (Infidelity and Change): 22:03–36:56
• Mary (Anxiety & Partnership Stagnation): 38:45–58:11

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Closing Thoughts from Dr. Delony

• Marriage won’t automatically heal existing wounds—it amplifies what already exists.
  “Marriage won’t just straighten that all out. It will just magnify and amplify what already exists.” [18:03]

• Healing and true change are possible, but require relentless honesty, humility, and sustained effort from both partners.

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Summary in Dr. Delony’s Tone:
This episode pulls zero punches about the dysfunction swirling just beneath the surface of so many relationships. The hard truth: Respect, stability, and love aren’t owed—they’re seriously hard-won. Whether facing controlling partners, the aftermath of betrayal, or that silent grind of disconnection, Dr. Delony’s message is the same: Get radically honest, take responsibility for your own healing, and—no matter what happens—become someone you (and your kids) can respect.

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For further resources, Dr. Delony recommends:

• The book Building a Non-Anxious Life
• The Together app for micro-habits to improve connection

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Transcript

[A]

My wife told me that she wasn't comfortable with me talking to this co worker anymore. She made, you know, threats that she was gonna leave me, that he would try to keep me from seeing my daughter.

[B]

Hold on. Are you. Did you date this person? Are you sleeping with this person? No. Why the. Why are these threats so caustic? Hey, yo, what's up?

[A]

What's up?

[B]

This is jo with the Dr. John DeLoney show talking to real people, going through real challenges in their lives, in the lives of their spouses, their kids, their mental and emotional health. Whatever you got going on in your life, pull up a seat and we're going to figure out what's the next right move. Click the link in the show notes. If you want to be on the show, you can fill out the form. And if you don't know how to go to show notes like me, then ask a young person in your life because they know what show notes actually are. Got to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and talk to Dawson. Dude, he has a creek. What's up, Dawson?

[A]

Hey, John. How you doing?

[B]

I'm good, brother. How are you, man?

[A]

Oh, I'm. I've been better.

[B]

Ah. What you got going on, brother?

[A]

So I guess my question that I have for you is how do I deal with my wife's controlling behavior in double standards. Whoa.

[B]

Oh, man. What's going on?

[C]

So

[A]

my wife and I have had several arguments over the past several years that kind of always revolve around this female co worker of mine. I knew her before my wife. Well, I should probably also add that my wife and I both work for the same company, so we see each other every day. And then. So after we started dating, my wife told me that she wasn't comfortable with me talking to this co worker anymore. She made, you know, threats that she was going to leave me, that you would try to keep me from seeing my daughter if I kept talking to her.

[B]

Hold on.

[D]

Are you.

[B]

Do you ever, like. Did you date this person? Are you sleeping with this person?

[A]

No.

[B]

Why the. Why are these threats so caustic?

[A]

That's what I've been trying to figure out. I've only had a professional relationship with this co worker. We've never hung out. You've only texted briefly. Handful of times. She had. She's in a committed relationship. It's just always just been. Just. Just professional.

[B]

Okay, so let me. Let me jump in here. So. And I'm trying to get context, and I know there's another side to this with your. With. I'm assuming you're saying Double standards. I'm assuming your wife is involved in something else. There's been people over the years that my wife has met, and she said, watch out for this one. Right. And I've always, always taken that to heart. Actually, that's not true. The times I haven't taken that to heart, it's not been good. And so if your wife said, hey, I know this person, I've worked with this person too. Not a safe person to be around for any number of reasons, has it been hard for you to go, okay, cool, got you. My relationship with you, my wife, is more important than this? Or has it felt out of left field? Or you're like, no, like this? Like, are you digging your heels in? Tell me how, how this dynamic is going, because it sounds strange to me that your wife would just meet somebody. See, they all work together like we all do, and then be like, if you don't stop talking, I'm taking away your kid. I'm divorcing you, I'm leaving. Like, that seems like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's what just really blindsided me. I just, I don't understand. She's is. She's never really talked to her.

[B]

Talk directly into the phone for me, buddy.

[A]

Sorry. She's never really talked, had any conversations with her. She's. He just always, from the start, just said to me that she doesn't really like her, but she's never had any real reason that she's given me to say why she doesn't like her.

[B]

So what's the other side of this coin?

[A]

So after she told me, you know, you got to stop talking to her, I, you know, respected, you know, our relationship. I said, okay, I'll stop talking to her. So a year and a half goes by, still working with this co worker. We see each other, but we're not talking anymore. So it's just very awkward. And during this time, my wife has started talking to other men at work. She has one co worker who's in his 50s, he's married, has kids, you know, they're growing up, kids, you know, in college. And she's. She's always talking to him, always texting him. Says he's her good friend. Says, you know, I guess they met before I knew her. So she's just saying they're, you know, really good friends. And he helps her deal with any type of question she has about, you know, I don't know, day to day life or things. It just kind of frustrated me because I was like, why are you going to him instead of me, for one. But then she just would always go back to, he's just a good friend. There's nothing, you know, there. You know, romantically. I was like, okay, fine, whatever. I'm not really the jealous type. So I kind of just left it at that. And then our daughter was getting baptized, and she was insistent on having this guy that she knew from high school. They're. They're good friends. I met him. He's, you know, seems like an okay guy. She just kept saying, I want this guy to be her daughter's godfather. And I said, okay, fine. And then later on, I kind of discovered that she and the godfather had dated in high school. She never bothered to tell me this, and she actually cheated on him. They broke up and then ended up getting back together later on. And then obviously they slept together, but she didn't want to tell me any of this. So meanwhile, I'm not talking to my coworker for over a year and a half, and she's still in contact with an old ex boyfriend and talking to other guys at work.

[B]

Where else. So this. This situation feels huge. Where else in your marriage? How long have y' all been married, by the way?

[A]

I guess technically not even six months.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We had our. We met four years ago.

[D]

She.

[A]

She, you know, we found out she was pregnant after only four months of dating, and then we just recently got married.

[B]

Okay. Where else do y'. All. Are you experiencing what you're calling double standards? And I'm thinking of things like her yelling at you for. Or being mad at you for leaving your clothes around your new house that you share together, but her clothes are all over the place. Like, where else is there double standards? In small ways like that, If any.

[A]

I don't know if there's really any, like, small ones. It's just always mainly about her having a lot of guy friends and then her not allowing me to have even really one female friend. I guess that's what's been the big issue here. I don't really. It will be a whole lot of little ones.

[B]

The bigger issue to me is y' all don't have a way to communicate together.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You don't have a roadmap for conflict. You don't have a roadmap for connected communication together. And there is a caustic. It's going to be my way, and you'll just do what I say.

[A]

That's how it's been since pretty much my daughter. Our daughter was born. Is. She's just.

[B]

Why did you marry?

[A]

I. I wanted things to work out. I thought things, you know, would get better, and they've just progressively have gotten worse.

[B]

Yeah. It appears to me your wife does not like the life she signed up for, And she's holding you responsible for the choices that she has co created together with you.

[A]

I mean, she tells. She has told me that she does resent me, okay. And she doesn't respect me and that she's embarrassed to be my wife, so.

[B]

Well, bro, lead with that next time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Like,

[A]

It's just. I just feel like there's no winning because anytime I bring up something that bothers me, she. She takes it as like, I'm leaving you. I'm divorcing. You know that that's always been the big threat.

[B]

Okay, so let me reframe it. She's already. Y' all still may share a house. Y' all will forever share a daughter. She's left you. The question is a, can y' all get together and rebuild something awesome. The problem with that analogy that I'm always using, you got to rebuild your marriage is it does take both of you. And there are a lot of times when one person is like, dude, like, we got off to a bad foot, a bad start. We've been doing this for a decade, and the tower has fallen over. That was our marriage. And, well, can we rebuild a new one? But one person's like, I will. I'm willing to do the work to rebuild. The other person's like, no, it's your fault it fell over. I'm not doing anything. And that's what it sounds where. It sounds like where you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. Here's what I want to challenge you to do. Okay. I want you to challenge you to make a list of what must be true. Like, I need a wife that I can have honest, hard conversations with. I want a wife that will spend the rest of her life learning how to see and know and celebrate me. And, yes, challenge me too. I will make that same commitment. And then I want you. And this is a strange one. I want you to become not through manifestation nonsense, or not through, like, chanting to yourself in the mirror, but through stone cold action. I want you to become a man that you respect. I want you to become a man that your daughter respects. Okay?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And that means treating everybody, your wife included. And your wife has said some pretty awful things to you. I'm embarrassed to be your wife. You'd gross me out. I don't respect you. Like, all that's Pretty gnarly things to come back from when someone looks you in the eye and tells you that. Someone who's like dragging around her ex boyfriend and lying to you about it. And not only dragging on her ex boyfriend and lying to you about it, but integrating that person, that other man into the forever life of your daughter. Someone who's holding herself to a different standard than you in the workplace. Like all that, man. Like, I'm going to treat you with dignity and respect while I tell you here's what must be true for this marriage to continue. But it sounds, bro, she is looking for a. She is looking for any reason to. To solidify this marriage is over. And it sounds like she's of the type of coward that wants to force your hand so that she can walk around the office and say, this guy left his daughter. Look, I left me and I can become a martyr in this thing, too.

[A]

That's. That's what I've kind of got the feeling of. Because she'll. She'll always just keep bringing this up and saying that's. That we're getting a divorce. But then she'll tell me she wants me to go and file.

[B]

Have you looked her in the eye and said, I will not file for divorce? If you want to get divorced, I'll honor it, but you go file the paperwork.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What did she say?

[A]

She. She won't do anything. She just gets quiet.

[B]

And that's the. That's the definition of cowardice right there. And I'm sorry that you're having to deal with it. You have a choice to make, brother. Do you want to go ahead and dig your heels in and say, I'm not doing this. I'm not going to be the person who, in who dissolves this marriage. I want to continue to know that for me, the guy. Look in the mirror. Becoming a man that I respect, is I fought for this thing to the very last day, or is looking yourself in the mirror and respecting yourself saying, my daughter is living through my wife's firestorm right now. And the greatest gift I can give this entire house, myself included, is I will. You don't have the courage to do it. You just have the courage to set fire to everything. You don't have the courage to come tell the people to get out of the building, I'll do that. But that's. That sounds like your choice, man. Your wife is done with the marriage.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now it's just a matter of who's going to sign the papers. And it might be that you have to deal with the blowback of her going around the office saying, oh, my gosh, my husband left me. He left his daughter. What a scumbag. What a what? Maybe.

[A]

My guess is already done that. Well, yeah, she's already texting family members saying that, you know, that I'm basically cheating or, you know, just because I, you know, say hi to this co worker.

[B]

She sounds incredibly unstable.

[A]

I mean, she'll call me toxic and say, you know, I'm crazy for bringing up things that I see. Like you. I see a co worker Texting you at 9:00 clock at night. And then she'll just be like, well, I'm gonna block him, and I'll be miserable at work just like you are. She'll just say stuff like that.

[B]

Well, cool. Let her know that in court, all of her text messages become part of the record.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And all of her Facebook exchanges and her whatsapps. And they can go get all that stuff now. It's all gonna be part of the record, as will. As will your text messages with this mysterious co worker of yours or whatever. Yeah, but what y' all had, what you. What you wanted to have never happened.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

And you get to decide what happens next, man. But I would. I would frame everything from. As the man of this amazing young daughter, can I look myself in the eyes and do I respect what I'm doing next?

[A]

I just know I just want what's best for my daughter. And right now I just feel like this is. This is just going down a path that's not going to benefit her at all anymore.

[B]

It's already down that path.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And y' all getting divorced and your wife getting half custody of her and having this, your daughter bathe in this. I mean, it. You made a child with this person. So this is in half of your child is this person. Like, what you can do moving forward is become a stable, sturdy presence for her for the next 20 or 30 years. But you're playing a really long game right now because you made a human with somebody who treats you like crap and does not want to live in reality. And so I want to be a person who I. I remember telling some guy that I was sitting with behind closed doors, like, who just got decimated. I. I think grossly and unfairly in a. In a divorce proceeding. And I said, all right, then you have the. You have the choice to make. You're going to show up every week for or every month for the next one year, two year, five years, 10 years, so that one day when the light comes on for your, in this case, his son. When the light comes on, will you be able to be somebody that you were you respected? And that's going to be tiring and exhausting and heartbreaking. All those things will be true. Those feelings will all be real. But can I be emotionally mature? Can I be strong? Can I be respectable enough to go do the next right thing, even despite all these big heavy feelings? And that's what adults do.

[A]

Yeah, I just. I don't feel like myself anymore, you know, just been beaten down too much and.

[B]

Okay, then let's. Then let's rise up. Or rise up sounds dramatic. Let's. Let's stand up and let's write down, here's what must be true, here's what I'm worth. And I'm going to be respectable. I'm going to respect myself moving forward with my decisions and my actions. Because at the end of the day, brother, that's. That's literally all you can control here. That's it. What are you going to do next? And she can text your family and friends. My guess is this type of person, her co workers know, and if they don't, God bless them. But her co workers know. And you can't help her bombing text messages and trying to when she goes to court and trying to what, like, sue you for like, oh, man, you can't control any of that. You can just control. I'm going to do the next best right thing for me and for my daughter. And what your daughter needs right now is some sort of steadiness in this crazy storm she's been dropped in the middle of. And for everybody out there who's in a really messy, gnarly, twisted up relationship, marriage won't just straighten that all out. It will just magnify and amplify what already exists. It's not the get out of jail card. And so dealing with the realities of your relationship right now is really important before you sign a legal document. It's really important before you make a human. And y', all, y' all skip that step. So here we are, brother. So thanks for calling me. And I don't have any good, like, great, like, pat you on the back advice other than it's time for you to stand up tall and say, I'm gonna take decisive, respectful, dignified action starting now. We come back, I'm going to talk to a couple who is wondering, is it possible to change after infidelity? Let's talk about Helix mattresses. For years, I thought sleep was for losers. So I just kept pushing and pushing and ignoring sleep. And of course I crashed because you can't ignore sleep. When you're exhausted, everything feels heavier, harder, and more complex. Deep sleep is when your brain resets and when your body does all of the work to clean out the junk so you can be ready to rock and roll the next day. When I finally started taking my sleep seriously, everything in my life changed for the better. And one of the big changes I made was switching to sleeping on a Helix mattress. I've had mine for a couple of years now, and I track my sleep and Helix mattresses have made a huge in my deep sleep and in my REM sleep. Helix can make a difference for you too. Get online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes and they will match you with just the right mattress for you for how you actually sleep. Helix mattresses ship straight to your door and you get 120 night sleep trial. And it's backed by a limited lifetime warranty. Go to helixsleep.com DeLoney and get 20% off site wide during their spring savings event. That's helixsleep.com DeLoney for 20 off. And be sure to tell Helix you heard about their amazing mattresses right here on this show with Helix. Better sleep starts right now. All right, I'm going to Bring on James first in Newark, New Jersey. James, you there?

[A]

Hey, Dr. John. How are you?

[B]

All right, got you, brother. I'm doing good. All right, let's bring on Laura. Hey, Laura, you there?

[E]

Yes, I am.

[B]

All right, awesome. So are you all in the same location right now or y' all are different places?

[D]

Different place.

[B]

Okay. All right, cool. So I don't know much about what this call is about, so James, you're first. So go ahead and let it rip.

[D]

All right. Laura and I have been married about six years, two small kids, and basically the entire time, I have just been a horrible person.

[B]

What does that mean? What does that mean?

[D]

Been a horrible partner. Not present. I haven't shown up. I've only cared about myself. Like I said, we have two small kids. I've just been a horrible father.

[B]

Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're using big words like be specific for me. You haven't shown up. What does that mean? You've been out at the bars and out at the club. You just sit there on the couch and watch TV while your wife is trying to manage all these two. These, both of these kids. Like, what does that mean?

[D]

I do work quite a lot and Sometimes, you know, I have to work long hours, and then when I'm not working, it could just be hanging out with my friends or. You know, the second part of this, as far as changing to save our marriage, does have to do with affairs. And that's where being a horrible partner and husband comes in. It's something that I have dealt with way before I met my wife, that I have always been unfaithful to whatever partner I was with. I would constantly seek external validation from other people other than my significant other, whether it be texting or Facetiming or Facebook messaging. It just. It always happened in every relationship I was in. And unfortunately, in this relationship with my wife, I did physically cheat with a co worker.

[B]

Just one?

[A]

Just one. Okay.

[B]

Are you committed to that story? Is that the full truth?

[D]

That is the full truth.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And I just. This all came to light in December when my wife found messages on an iPad. Because this is not like it wasn't

[A]

a

[D]

first time she found out moment. You know, she's. She's called me several times throughout our relationship, whether it was something stupid or inappropriate conversations, and we've had conversations about it. And every time I was caught, I'd apologize and I would tell her how sorry I was and how it would never happen again. And each time it just progressively got worse. I would just hide it better. I would sneak better. So it's last incident when she called me in mid December, we were at that point. I believe we are legally separated now.

[B]

Okay. Did you pull the trigger or did she.

[D]

She did. For security for herself and for our family.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

Because she's afraid that I can't make good conscious decisions,

[A]

and I don't blame her. Yeah.

[B]

Laura, tell me where you are.

[E]

Yeah. So to clarify some of the things that he was saying when he says he does his own thing, you know, he does the stuff that he would still do as if he was a teenager. He would, you know, if he wanted a dirt bike, he would rebuild a dirt bike. He would, you know, hang out with his buddies or whatever he needed to do. Just made sure that he. That done first before he was ever able to help me pick up the kids or. Or do anything with the kids. This has been going on our entire relationship. I kind of made peace with that part of the relationship that I was going to take on 100% of our life. And I kind of made peace with that. Not saying I wasn't resentful, but definitely made peace with that. Where I'm struggling is I feel that I have Let him cross my boundaries so many times. Like I said, I've caught him multiple times doing this. Every time I tell him no more. If I catch it again, he talks, talks me into, manipulates me into saying, oh well, it's really not that bad and it's not really what you're seeing, but it's kind of come closer to home. It's now been with my friends. His. He was talking to one of his friends. Wife's inappropriately our neighbors affecting our children. So it's really just hitting home more.

[B]

Yeah man, that's. What a mess. So how can I help? What are you all aiming to do here?

[E]

So he's telling me that he's changed. He's now going to church, he's going to therapy. He listens to your show now. You know, he promises me this is never going to happen again. And I just really don't believe it because we've just been down this road before. I feel like it's just a toxic cycle. And so I guess my question for you is, you know, can people actually change? You know, can cheaters actually stop cheating or is this just a toxic cycle? You know, in a relationship that we both have to recognize as you know, the relationship is not a healthy one

[C]

for both of us.

[B]

I mean at the 30,000 foot level, yes. I would not do this job if I didn't believe that everyone, anyone's capable, not everyone. That most people are capable of change that. This is a word that has religious overtones to it. But I mean it in a bigger way that, that, that there's not redemption for folks. I believe in that in this particular situation. James, you've got some demons, brother. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the road ahead is good. Would be very challenging for both of you. Is it possible 100%. Is it going to happen overnight because you went to church a few times and went to therapy a couple times? Absolutely not. And it takes an overhaul of. I. I guess the best way I could say this is it takes you guys both, both of you recognizing our marriage is over. It's. It's in ash. It's over. Do we want to rebuild something completely new from the floor up or not? And the couples who make that turn and work together to learn all new skills, all new relate ways we relate. New connected communication tools. New connected conflict tools. Dude, you will build something that is. That will stand the test of time and will change your family tree. But anything short of that becomes the same like as you said Laura, the same loop de loop cycle.

[E]

What are the Signs that somebody is changing. If I was your daughter, what would

[B]

you tell me to do if this

[E]

is happening to your daughter?

[B]

My. My wisdom for my daughter will be, I hope I have raised you in a way where you know that no matter what decision you make, I will be right here with you.

[A]

Okay. And

[B]

I would tell her the road ahead, if you want to make this thing work, is very, very hard for both of you. Because my guess is, James, tell me if I'm wrong. And by the way, I'm happy to be wrong on this one, Laura. Maybe James tells you, hey, I'm gonna go do something. I need to go be at work a little bit longer. And your response to that is hard to hear because him having to work a little bit later changes what your picture of the day looked like.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

And he might have learned early on, oh, I'm just not going to tell her. Right. And so it might mean that you've got to go through a period of opening your hands up, opening your arms up a little bit more, being softer to when things actually change, because they do. And, James, you're going to have to deal with the demons, man. You've been. You've been. You've been treating people as though they are disposable. Sounds like your whole life, huh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where does that come from? What's the root of that, man?

[D]

I think just talking to the phone for me. I think just always having a problem with the person I see in the mirror.

[B]

How come? Why don't you like James?

[D]

Not exactly sure yet. That's something I'm working through with my

[A]

therapist,

[D]

so I'll have to get back

[A]

to you on that one.

[B]

And so here's what I want you all to do. Okay. I want you all to. It sounds like y' all can be in the same room. Can y' all share a meal together?

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And here's what I want to happen in the next 48 hours. And, Laura, this is going to take some homework on your part. And this is going to take some homework on your part. James. I want y' all to both map out an ideal, a true separation. Y' all aren't really separated right now. Right now, Laura is punishing James, and that can't. I mean, that's not going to get y' all where you want to be. That's not going to get you the safety inside your chest that. That you want. That's not gonna get you the safety inside your chest that you want. Laura and James is always going to be like, dance Monkey dance. He's going to try to be performing for you, right, so that he can get the, the carrot at the end of the stick. I can get to see the kids. I can get to see you. I can get a hug. I can. Right. I can tell you another sob story or whatever. And so like, coming up, both of you draft one and it could be a week, it could be a month. I want you all to draft a true grown up. We're going to act like adult separation, okay. For seven days. I'm gonna go spend the night with these two guys. I'm gonna go stay at my mom's house. I'm gonna stay at my dad's house. I'm gonna stay in a hotel. Like what, Whatever that looks like. Or we just simply do not have the money. Here's what it's going to look like inside our house. Separations. We're not going to talk about the relationship stuff. I don't want to hear your therapy. Like, we're gonna just simply co. Manage this house for seven days. And at the end of the seventh, and I want you all to negotiate. When you come down with your idea, James, and your idea Laura, I want y' all to both negotiate that and to sign it, like spit, shake on it. Like, this is. We're gonna hold to this. And James, by the way, you, you're feeling like a Broadway actor right now. And this will give you some peace too, because you haven't dropped your shoulders yet in a long time. You've dropped your head, but not your shoulders. You get what I'm saying?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And then a key part of this seven day exercise is we will have on the calendar the date, the time and the location of where we're going to meet up. Whatever cafe, whatever diner, whatever, whatever, we're going to meet up and we're going to talk about how each other's doing. And that's you, Laura, you're going to hand him se. If you want to keep going. Seven days of here's what must be true this week to, to begin slowly rebuilding trust. If you want to still do that, and it might be, Laura, you're like, I'm not ready even for that yet. Cool. And James, you're going to go. Cool. I'm going to keep becoming the most respectable version of myself I can possibly be. I can, I can possibly create.

[C]

Okay, do that.

[B]

You get what I'm saying?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And at some point, y' all will circle back up and probably end up in a, in a counselor's office. Together, to handle dynamics, to handle conflict, to handle all that I'm going to give you right now. Before. Before we go, I want to give you a. A framework. Either of y' all taking notes?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. I want you to write this down. Okay.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I want this to guide the conversation you'll have about a separation of seven days, of 14 days, of 30 days. Don't go beyond 30 days, because then he starts getting real wonky. But here is the framework I want you to use. Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Here is what I see happening. Here's what happened. Number one. Number two, here's the story I made up about what happened. Number three, here's how I feel. Number four, here's what must be true. Here's what I want to have happen next.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

And both of you use that framework. So when she says, james, I actually don't want you to leave. I want you here. Cool. Or I want you to go stay somewhere for seven days and you can say, all right, what just happened is you're kicking me out for seven days. The story I'm making up is this marriage is over. You'll never love me again. Whatever. That makes me feel. Empty, hollow, embarrassed, ashamed of all the things I've done, all that stuff. Here's what I want to have happen next. I want you to promise me you'll be at our. At our lunch in. In seven days. You get what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And here's what that exercise does. It lets us own our stories, our feelings, and our wishes for what happens next. And then we open our hands and hope to God the other person will love us enough to follow through.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And, Laura, you have to decide. I want to be a wife, not a mom.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

And I know you've probably been forced in that role, like you said. And, James, you have to decide. I'm going to stop being a little boy. I'm going to be a grown man who honors my wife and loves my kids. And the best way I can love my kids is by triply honoring and loving my wife.

[A]

Well,

[D]

yeah.

[B]

And I'm telling you both, I. I made it real simple. This will be a exercise in hell. And I think you're both worth it if you want to do it.

[E]

Okay.

[A]

Thank you, James.

[B]

Anything else?

[A]

No.

[D]

Thank you for your time. Thank you.

[B]

Do I think change can happen? Yes. Is change in this kind of situation hard? Unimaginably hard. Has it been done? Yep. I'm with people all the time who have put in the work. Is it worth it? I think there is nothing else on the planet worth more than getting yourself right and getting your marriage whole. So it's worth the work. But man, it's hard, man. It's hard. Thanks for the call. Thanks for being honest and brave. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our mental health, our emotional health, and our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety, and they're one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I struggled for years because of financial stress. Listen, therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about financial advice, but it can help you build healthier ways of coping and give you strategies to communicate about money without more fighting. To do all of this, check out my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the United States. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no additional cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H lp.com DeLoney all right, let's go out to Dallas and talk to Mary. Hey, Mary, what's up?

[C]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

[B]

Of course. Thanks for jumping on here last minute. What's going on?

[C]

A little nervous. So sorry in advance. I'm flustered.

[B]

Oh, you're all good.

[A]

You're all good.

[C]

I just had to run to escape my kids, so

[B]

I may have had to do that before too.

[A]

So yeah.

[C]

Okay. So just to kind of keep my thoughts in order, I wrote my primary concern in some context. If you don't mind if I just read that really quick, go for it. So primarily I'm dealing with losing respect for my husband due to his lack of consistency and follow through when times get tough and we're in a season of conflict. So for some context, we've been together 12 years. Most of the relationship we've kind of just coasted through without any major conflict. Things have been good. And then four years of marriage and two kids later, we decided to become intentional about building a better relationship and getting to the root of the repeat fights that we get into. But the problem is we never seem to make it past the discussion phase and into true resolution. We seem to fight about the same things over and over. And the fights follow the same pattern and end with him promising to change and wanting to change. And then things are good for a little bit, and then they slip, and we're back at square one. And then on top of that, during our conversations, things seem to get derailed because we have common communication issues. And so I'm often left feeling unseen and disrespected. And I just feel like we're at an impasse, and it's leading me to start losing respect for him the more we continue to have to fight about the same things.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So when it comes to conflict over the same things over and over, I have good news and bad news. Okay. The bad news is the Gottmans report that 69% of marital conflict is what they call pervasive. It will always be there.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

And there is an element to making peace with it. Now, I'm going to caveat the heck out of this. So hang on. Okay. You don't make peace with fights about abuse or showing up or, like, saying, hey, I want some help with this with our kids, and it being met with, oh, well, I'm just too busy in my video games. That's not what we're talking about. So give me some examples of things that are constantly showing up.

[C]

So I think I used to be the person that would get mad that he folded the towels wrong. Okay. But I will say we are past that point.

[B]

Like, we can celebrate, you know what? The towels are folded.

[C]

Yes, exactly. And I have let go a lot of control over little things like that. But I think the place where I struggle is seeing him not. I'm trying to find the best way to put this, but I feel like a lot of the times I don't see any effort or intention behind his actions. Like, I feel like he just floats through life and is along for the ride. And an analogy that I really resonated with was, I am this ocean with all this chaos and things underneath the surface, and he's just a boat on the top, along for the ride. And oftentimes that's good, because he is really agreeable, and he's not an angry man, and he's an amazing father and husband, but I am stuck with feeling like I'm in control all the time.

[B]

And do you ever, over the four years y' all have been married, in the years before that when y' all dated?

[C]

Mm.

[B]

In times when he, quote, unquote, took control, how did you meet that? You're not doing it right. Why don't you do it like this. I can't believe you picked this place over that place. Why do you fold the towels like that? In his f early on, the efforts that he put forth to control something were they met with relief and oh, thank God you're driving. Or they met with, you need to control better and differently.

[C]

I would say in the very beginning, probably the latter. But to be honest, there hasn't been a lot of instances where I can remember him taking full ownership or control of things.

[B]

What's a thing or two that you would love for him to take ownership of?

[C]

I feel like I have done a lot of work to give him grace and to not nitpick every time he leaves something around or doesn't clean something thoroughly. But at the same time, it often feels like his him not being aware of things and him not just looking around and doing something adds more work to my plate. And it feels like I'm his mom. And it doesn't feel like a partnership.

[B]

I I, yeah, and, but it I 100 understand what you're saying. No question about it. The challenge, though, is those patterns are often co created. Not always. Sometimes you just have burnouts who smoke weed, want to play video games, and their poor wives are just holding everything together. Right. Doesn't sound like him, right?

[C]

No, not at all.

[B]

And other times there are wives who just beat their husbands down and they're like, you know what? I'm out. I'll be here because I said I would be here. I'm going to be a good, good dad to these kids the best I can. And you tell me to do something, I will do it every time. Right. And I don't want to say that we're there. Okay. But often in the middle, there is a why aren't you stressing about this as much as I'm stressing about it? And what you're trying to do there is make him care about a thing as much as you do, and he doesn't. And so either the thing that you're worried about, the piles, the whatever, just simply isn't that big of a deal, or it's your problem to solve, or we need to have the deeper conversation, which is when there are dishes in the sink and you see how tired I am. I want you to know me well enough to know the greatest way that I could be loved right now is if you go knock out those dishes and go ahead and start a load of laundry. Have y' all had that depth of a conversation yet?

[C]

We have. And we have one of the things that we've done is created a whole list of tasks that need to be done around the house, and we've assigned them to each other. And so on the surface level, the tasks themselves are not really an issue anymore. It's more so like him being able to shut down and not take care of something, and then me feeling like I need to pick up the slack, or him feeling. Or me feeling like he needs to turn to me to make every decision or turn to me to ask the question instead of just figuring things out on his own.

[B]

Fair. And two things at play here. One, my guess is, and I may be wrong, my guess is this is a learned behavior from him. Very Pavlovian. He has learned, if I go do the towels, if I go clean the bathroom, I'm probably gonna do it wrong.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I'm just gonna let her tell me when she wants me to do it, and, man, when she says it, I'll do everything on that list. And let me put it this way. People generally, not always, but generally go where they are celebrated. And so the. The man. And. And let me say the second thing here is a lot of what you're saying. You've. You've prefaced almost every thing you've told me about him with I feel that. I feel that. And the challenge I want you to wade through is, I feel this good. That feeling is important to acknowledge and to metabolize. And then we have to ask oursel, is this feeling true?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, I feel like he's doing all the tasks. He's just not doing them with the right spirit. Well, now, I mean, that's. Then we get into a moving finish line. And what we're trying to do is I want him to be as concerned and anxious about this place as I am. And what that means is that's a big alarm system that says, oh, I need to go deal with why I am overwhelmed, why I am anxious about things in this house, with our kids, with our finances, with the cleanliness, with whatever you're wrestling with. Because here's a guy next to me that's got peace. And I don't want to. I don't want to get mad at him for bebopping through life if he's done the things that we agreed make me feel seen and known. Because now we're getting into. He's not doing them with the right attitude or the right spirit or the right heart or. And it becomes more and more amorphous, and we're just trying to get someone to feel the same Thing we're feeling and our feelings are our feelings. When you, when y' all sat down and said, okay, here's the task list, and you said, here's what I. Here's what must be done around the house. We just got to do these things. And here's what I need to feel seen and known. Did you also ask him, how can I see and know you better?

[C]

Yeah, we've had that conversation.

[B]

What does he say?

[C]

He wants me to ask how his day has been and give him more hugs. He's a very simple in that way. And I do do that. I do make an effort to do that. But I think it can be hard for me to do those things when I'm feeling emotionally disconnected. So I think that's kind of where I struggle is. I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm, you know, I have a lot of my own anxieties and things, and I feel oftentimes a lot, you know, alone in my own head, in. In my own craziness. And then that causes me to feel disconnected from everything and from him. And so then it's hard for me to give him what he needs, which makes him feel disconnected.

[B]

I think that it just creates a weird dance. Yeah. And Mary, like, as a guy who has struggled my whole life with anxiety, what you just said resonates with me so powerfully. What are some things that make you anxious?

[C]

Oh, my gosh. Everything.

[B]

Name me a couple.

[C]

My kids.

[B]

Okay. Their health, their safety, their education. All of it.

[C]

All of the above.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

My family.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Dynamics in my family. The political climate.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

The.

[C]

My own health.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

My relationship now.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

As a guy who avoided it for years and almost burned his marriage to the ground, can I just please implore you to go head directly through the anxiety and go see somebody.

[C]

So I do see a therapist.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And for how long? I. I've seen her few for a few months now.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And we're still, I would say, in the beginning stages of setting a relationship and that kind of thing. And I also am on some anti anxiety medications that have helped me through the postpartum phase. So I am confident that I'm heading in the right direction for my own personal healing. I've, like, picked up hobbies and I'm trying to do everything I can.

[B]

How's your sleep?

[C]

It's okay. My husband does all the overnights.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

How is your, like, do you have any close friends?

[C]

I do, but not in person. I don't live close to people, so it's A lot of.

[B]

Let me say this. Your body would be failing you if it let you exhale inside your own skin, knowing you don't have anybody you can call in the middle of the night that will show up to be with your kids. And I could. I could go on and on and on. Here's what I want you to hear me say. If you have a husband who will sit down and have these conversations with you, who will, like, look around and say, I think things look good around here, but give me the list, and I will knock everything out on it. I'll take all the overnight shifts, and then I'll get up and go to work the next day. Does he get up and go to work the next day?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Oh. I'm not saying this is 100% true, but I want you to hold space, for I may be experiencing the world not as it truly is, and that could be both disorienting and really empowering. Is that fair?

[C]

Yeah, I think that's fair.

[B]

And when you have a husband who says, here's how you can love me, you can just say good morning,

[C]

you

[B]

can give me a hug, you can put a note on my pillow, and those things feel hard. I want you to double down and walk through the hard, because a lot of anxiety is teaching your body. I'm driving now. I can do hard, scary things. I'm worth being trusted. And your body will, over time, turn down the anxiety alarms. Okay, that. That's, like, where I was asking about your. Your therapist. I would love for you. And again, I trust your licensed therapist, but, man, if you go in with pervasive, strong anxiety, you should be leaving after three or four or five sessions. You should be leaving with. Here's a thing I want you to practice when you get home, because anxiety healing from anxiety, like the. The therapeutic modality, it's pretty straightforward. And there's. I want. I want you to hear me say, I'm on the other side of it. I got deep, resounding peace in my life. My marriage has never, ever, ever been stronger. So I want you to. To know that on that side of it. Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But it took me, like, being terrified when I realized I'm experiencing the world in a way that nobody else is. And what if. What if I'm the problem instead of everybody else? You get what I'm saying?

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

If you've listened to my show. You know, I always go after husbands, and so I'm not trying to pick sides here, but he sounds like he's doing what he can to help somebody who's really struggling. Does that sound right?

[C]

No, he's. He's the best. And I'm have all the problems you don't have.

[B]

No, you don't. I promise you he has his. But it there. There's a season when we're going to talk. A part of our conversations are, I need you to carry 80% because I can only carry 20 right now because I'm doing all this work on getting well and whole. I had these things happen to me when I was a kid, and my body's still trying to solve for them all. Now that I've got two of my own kids staring at me, I got to go head straight through that tension with the help of a licensed professional. And I need you to carry an extra bit of the load. And he sounds like a guy who's like, hell, yeah, I'm in. I got it. It's then deciding. I'm not going to judge how he's picking up his 80% right. I'm going to be grateful for it. I'm going to exhale and I'm going go do the work I need to do. I'm going to. I'm going to send you this. This. I'm going to send you two things. One, I'm going to send you Building a non anxious Life. It's the number one bestselling book. I wrote o on this very thing. Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I want you to read it and I want him to read it too, because it. What I always tell folks is if you. If you take away all like the diagnostic criteria that that nerds use and you just look at symptomology, about half of people in the country are wrestling with anxiety right now, and the other half of the country are married to that half. Right? And so this book will give him an insight into what's going on in your body, into your mind, and it will give you both of y' all a roadmap for how can we build a world where the alarms naturally tone way down? Okay. That's number one. Number two, I'm also gonna send you, you and your husband the together app. It's a daily practice. It's a microhabit. It's a thing you can do that just inches you back towards each other. Okay. Not any big grand talks. Not any big grand. It is a action towards. Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And my wife is the hardest person. Like, she is skeptical of all these kind. She loves this app. She loves, loves, loves it. It's my number one selling point. Is. Dude, my wife even uses it. She doesn't listen to this show. None of that. She loves this app. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And if you get an activity, an exercise to do towards your spouse, towards your husband, and you feel uncomfortable, you feel like, I don't like this, it's gonna be hard. That in and of itself is good, important data. Bring that to your counselor and say, dude, this thing told me to hug my husband for 60 seconds to go for a walk with him. And I immediately, my body started shutting down. Let's talk. Let's talk about that. Right? It gives you a. It gives you a direction point for healing, maybe over in that area. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You're pretty awesome, Mary. You got a lot of work. And thank you for letting me ask a bunch of deep, probing questions. What you've told me about your husband is that he's a pretty respectable guy, and he's doing very respectable things. He just doesn't have that sense of panic and urgency that racks, that is constantly in your chest. And so instead of blaming him for not having that, we could be really grateful that he does has it. And it could be a lighthouse for us, as we say. I want to get that too. Hang on the line. I'm gonna hook you up with some free resources. And, man, you call me anytime, Mary. I feel like I've been where you are. Minus postpartum, minus giving birth, any of that kind of. That's an extra complexity. And I just gotta. Gotta tell you, there's healing on the other side. My son and I love to be out on the water fishing. It's one of my favorite ways to spend our time, just the two of us, casting our lines and spending time together. And if you fish, you know, this glare on the water can be brutal. You're trying to see where the fish are, and by the end of the day, your eyes are cooked. That's why both me and my son, and actually my wife and daughter too, all wear Shady Rays sunglasses. I got mine, and they are amazing. They're polarized, which means they cut the glare and actually let you see into the water. Not just the surface into the water. It makes a huge difference. Shady Ray sunglasses protect your eyes. They're durable, and they're built for real life. And let me say this, I've lost or broken more sunglasses than I care to admit. Shady Rays has lost and broken protection. Yes. So if something happens, they will replace them. That means I'm not stressed about wearing them out in the middle of a lake. On a creek, on an adventure, hike anywhere. They look great and they're not stupid, expensive. So if you're a fisherman, if you like being outside, get sunglasses made for fishing or check out their entire collection. Head to shadyrays.com and use code DeLoney for 40% off two or more polarized pairs of sunglasses. That's shadyrays.com use code DeLoney. All right, Kelly, I gotta tell you, something happened. So this is last week as we're recording this show last week, I'm in the middle of writing this book. It takes up all my life and my brain power, whatever. I headlined a comedy club in Huntsville, Alabama, and I took a couple of awesome comics with me. Mike James and Alex Vluto. They came with me and place was completely packed out. It was a wild, super fun night. But when I took the stage, I said, hey, y' all know me from this. Y' all know me from this show, but I recently found out that Kelly edits out a lot of my crass or rude or johnisms to make a show that, quote, unquote, everyone can listen to. And so I told him tonight is going to be all the parts that Kelly edits anyway. I tell you that to tell you every time I mention the name Kelly, the place went bananas. And so you're kind of a hero out there, despite how mean you are, despite how many people you keep cycling through and firing on our team or forcing to leave. Like, they love you out there doing the Lord's work here. Well, you're a. You're a hero. You're like a. You're like a famous Amos hero. We have amazing listeners. We do, we do. And my God, they love you. But just see, despite what you say, despite what you edit out, I didn't know you're editing all these things out. Well, you say a lot of things that we can't say on the air. Hey, love you guys so much. Thank you all for being with us. Stay in school, don't do drugs, and we'll see you out on the road.