Podcast Title: The Dream
Host/Author: Little Everywhere
Episode: DINKS
Release Date: June 27, 2025

Introduction

In the "DINKS" episode of The Dream, host Jane Marie delves into the lives of Maris Kreisman and Josh Gondelman, a married couple who embody the "Dual Income, No Kids" (DINKS) lifestyle. The episode explores their personal choices, the dynamics of their relationship, and the broader implications of opting to live child-free in today's society.

Meet the Guests: Maris Kreisman and Josh Gondelman

Jane introduces her guests, highlighting their unique paths:

• Maris Kreisman is an essayist with her book "I Want to Burn this Place Down" and runs a newsletter called the Marist Review.

• Josh Gondelman is a writer and comedian with credits on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and Desus and Mero. He has authored a book, performed stand-up, released a comedy special titled Positive Reinforcement, and maintains a newsletter.

Notable Quote:

"The name of this show is Kind of a Joke because the idea of living the dream is kind of a joke," – Jane Marie [01:21]

Their Story: From Meeting to Marriage

Maris and Josh recount how they met at a party Maris was hosting in 2014, celebrating the fifth anniversary of her Tumblr blog. Their immediate connection led to a swift progression from dating to marriage within a few years.

Notable Quote:

"We just started dating right away. We got along right away at the party and went on our first date maybe three days later," – Josh Gondelman [05:34]

Choosing to Be DINKS: The Decision-Making Process

A central theme of the episode is the couple's conscious decision to remain child-free. They discuss the conversations and convictions that led them to this choice, emphasizing personal happiness and the desire to avoid societal pressures.

Notable Quotes:

"When Josh asked me to marry him, I made sure that he understood that I didn't want to have kids." – Maris Kreisman [07:59]

"We have been married for eight years and together for 11, and we don't possess any children and we don't have any designs on acquiring any." – Josh Gondelman [04:40]

Lifestyle Benefits of Being DINKS

Maris and Josh highlight the freedoms and flexibilities their child-free status affords them. These include spontaneity in their personal lives, the ability to travel frequently, and financial flexibility without the added responsibilities of child-rearing.

Notable Quotes:

"We're pretty spontaneous, like day to day, where it's like, oh, it's such a beautiful night. Let's just go, and the two of us will have dinner and a couple drinks and we'll take a walk." – Josh Gondelman [20:07]

"We don't have to save to put a kid through college. We don't have to buy, you know, supplies for a kid. It's just kind of like, there's two mouths to feed, and we're both working towards feeding them and plus a pug mouth." – Josh Gondelman [20:55]

Balancing Careers and Personal Lives

The discussion delves into how being DINKS allows both Maris and Josh to pursue their careers with greater flexibility. Josh's frequent travel and Maris's freelance work are made more manageable without the constraints of childcare.

Notable Quote:

"There's a level of professional risk that we can absorb." – Josh Gondelman [20:55]

Societal Pressures and Personal Fulfillment

The couple addresses external expectations and societal norms that often equate happiness with parenthood. They share personal anecdotes about facing questions and judgments from family and friends regarding their choice to remain child-free.

Notable Quotes:

"I felt like, oh, feeling like you're gonna cry all the time is actually bad." – Maris Kreisman [25:02]

"It's so hard to put down the societal pressure to have kids." – Josh Gondelman [36:32]

Reflection on Parenthood and Personal Well-being

Maris and Josh express a deep appreciation for the joys of parenthood observed in others, yet they remain content and fulfilled without pursuing it themselves. They discuss occasional feelings of jealousy during significant milestones in their friends' children’s lives but reaffirm their satisfaction with their chosen path.

Notable Quotes:

"I do think a real freedom that we have is like, we." – Josh Gondelman [20:28]

"I am a little jealous of first school plays and milestones, but I'm glad for their happiness." – Maris Kreisman [44:35]

Navigating Future Possibilities

While firmly rooted in their decision to not have children, Maris and Josh acknowledge that life is unpredictable. They maintain that their relationship is built on strong communication and mutual understanding, which empowers them to navigate any future changes together.

Notable Quote:

"If any fundamental principle of our marriage were to change unexpectedly, that would be destabilizing for both of us." – Josh Gondelman [14:48]

Conclusion: Embracing Their Dream

The episode concludes with Maris and Josh celebrating their fulfilling, child-free lives. They emphasize that happiness is subjective and that their version of the American Dream is one where personal freedom and mutual respect take precedence over traditional expectations.

Notable Quote:

"I have so much love and joy in my life and I have a selfishness about the other stuff that I just don't want to give this." – Josh Gondelman [46:00]

Key Takeaways

• Personal Choice: Maris and Josh exemplify how choosing to remain child-free can lead to a fulfilling and flexible lifestyle.

• Financial and Emotional Freedom: Without the responsibilities of raising children, the couple enjoys financial flexibility and the ability to pursue careers and personal interests more freely.

• Societal Expectations: They navigate and challenge societal norms that often equate parenthood with success and fulfillment.

• Strong Relationship Foundation: Their decision is supported by a strong, communicative, and understanding partnership, highlighting the importance of mutual respect and shared values in sustaining such choices.

Final Thoughts

The Dream episode "DINKS" offers an insightful look into the lives of individuals who define the American Dream on their own terms. Through Maris and Josh's experiences, listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own definitions of happiness and success, free from societal pressures.