For Art's Sake

Summary

The Dream — "For Art’s Sake"

Host: Jane Marie
Guest: Alexis Hyde (Art Curator, Art Advisor, Executive Director of Quinn Emanuel Arts Foundation)
Release Date: January 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode marks the return of "The Dream," reimagined as a weekly interview podcast diving into anything Jane Marie and her team find intriguing, while maintaining the show’s core interest: the barriers to the "American Dream." This week, inspired by the loss of public funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the philosophy of "art for art’s sake," Jane Marie invites Alexis Hyde to discuss the enduring value of art, how the art world functions, its scams, and why creation ought to have value beyond profit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Value of Art for Art’s Sake (01:19–03:16)

• Jane opens with thoughts from a book on science pursued for curiosity, relating it to publicly funded art and media.
• Mourns the shuttering of CPB, reflecting on America once valuing education and noncommercial content.
• Explores "art for art’s sake" — the idea that art needn’t be political or commercial to hold value, and the creative act is worthwhile in itself.

"Art is valuable in and of itself. It doesn't have to be political. And it's not just for certain audiences. In fact, it can be for no audience at all. Just the act of creating it holds value."
— Jane Marie (02:40)

2. What Does an Art Curator/Advisor Do? (03:16–07:59)

• Alexis explains the role of a curator: choosing, caring for, and exhibiting art, telling stories through art arrangement.
• Contrasts art galleries (art for sale) and museums (collections, not for sale), and discusses how curators balance academic, audience, donor, and artistic needs.
• As an art advisor, Alexis helps clients—from new collectors to big names—find and acquire appropriate works, likening her job to being a Nordstrom sales associate for art.

"I'm the art makeup counter. You come to me and you're like, I need a red lipstick for the space above my couch. And I'm like, great, here's three. Let's try these all on..."
— Alexis Hyde (05:25)

3. Behind the Scenes: Museum of Broken Relationships Stories (08:50–14:55)

• Alexis directed LA’s Museum of Broken Relationships, a "conceptual art piece as a museum," displaying objects left over from personal relationships, complete with their stories.
• Describes curatorial decisions around narrative flow and emotional safety—gradually increasing story intensity and offering safe spaces for vulnerable visitors.
• Shares memorable, emotional, and unusual donations (e.g., pubic hair bag, breast implants, cologne bottles of a deceased spouse).
• Tells about receiving a gun from a failed suicide attempt, emphasizing the responsibility of curating such heavy pieces and the relief it gave the donor.

"I had about a hundred to 130 objects up at any given time. And you would read the story… hopefully if I did my job right… you left feeling very connected through everybody's struggles."
— Alexis Hyde (09:44)

Memorable Moment:

• The paper flower bouquet story—a months-long phone relationship that ended in ultimate catfishing when the recipient vanished after a surprise visit with a bouquet made from poetry (18:11–19:34).

4. Art and Law: Cross-Disciplinary Insights at Quinn Emanuel (24:12–26:55)

• Alexis oversees an artist residency inside the law firm Quinn Emanuel, courtesy of collector John Quinn.
• Discusses parallels between assembling legal cases and curating art—both involve storytelling and creating new narratives from raw materials.
• The residency allows artists and lawyers to learn from each other, countering the tech-driven push for efficiency with respect for creative process.

"The idea of working on a painting for three months is anathema to [tech execs]... There's this loss of understanding of what it takes to make."
— Alexis Hyde (26:35)

5. Societal Shifts: The Decline of Art-for-Art's-Sake Funding (28:12–31:20)

• The shift toward profit at the expense of art’s intrinsic value.
• Examples include John Updike’s publisher-funded writing apartment and the Beatles being able to create thanks to public support ("on the dole").
• Relates COVID-era conversations about artist support to the creation of new residencies, referencing AIDS as a loss for which we’ll never know the full cultural cost.

"We don't even know what we lost to AIDS, and we don't know what we're losing now."
— John Quinn (quoted by Alexis Hyde, 31:21)

6. The Reality of "Making It" as an Artist (32:07–34:39)

• Artists rarely aspire to superwealth; most want to sustain a modest, stable life doing what compels them ("It's a compulsion"), not maximize profit.
• Jane and Alexis discuss how misunderstanding this fuels exploitation or scams.

"Most people just want to have a nice life… and I can't help it. Being an artist, right? You can't. It's a compulsion."
— Alexis Hyde (33:54)

7. Scams and Schemes in the Art World (37:51–44:09)

• Alexis details how lack of transparency in dealer/auction house pricing leads to fake markets and inflated secondary prices.
• Unscrupulous "advisors" can guarantee impossible returns, exploit buyers, and hurt artists by pumping and dumping pieces.
• Cautions: Be wary of anyone guaranteeing monetary returns on art investments.

"That's a scam. If any advisor's like, I can get you 10 times [your money]… That's not how investments work."
— Alexis Hyde (41:51)

• Describes investigating and taking down a "fake" art investment advisor who was flipping high-profile artists' work without real access.
• Explains the practical limits—art isn't quickly liquid, stolen art often loses value, and even high-profile heists typically break down art for resale in parts (e.g., jewels from a crown).

8. How to Engage with Art (44:09–47:47)

• Grassroots engagement: Attend galleries, talks, screenings, workshops—often free or inexpensive.
• Don’t be afraid to dislike (or even hate) art: developing taste requires knowing personal dislikes.

"Hating something is great, because, like, why? ... The worst thing is meh."
— Alexis Hyde (47:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We agreed as a nation that education and entertainment didn't need to be created just to sell oil or insurance." — Jane Marie (02:22)
• "I think about how do you think the things that you like exist? ... You want to have choices as well." — Alexis Hyde (32:07)
• "You can't help it. It's a compulsion... The quilt of the world, of humanity, has all of these parts." — Alexis Hyde (33:56)
• "The profit isn't in the heart of the artist... scammers don't understand why I don't want to be a billionaire." — Jane Marie (34:39)
• "If any advisor's like, I can get you 10 times [your investment]. They can't... That's a scam." — Alexis Hyde (41:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Art for Art’s Sake, CPB Commentary: 01:19–03:16
• Art Curatorship & Advising Explained: 03:16–07:59
• Museum of Broken Relationships Stories: 08:50–14:55
• Quinn Emanuel Artist Residency: 24:12–26:55
• Profit vs. Creation & Process: 28:12–31:20
• Artist Life vs. Capitalism: 32:07–34:39
• Art World Scams Unveiled: 37:51–44:09
• How to Engage with Art: 44:09–47:47

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Episode Tone and Style

The tone is conversational, empathetic, a little irreverent, and deeply curious—typical of Jane Marie’s style. Alexis Hyde blends humor with insight, making the art world feel both fascinating and accessible, while candidly addressing artists' vulnerabilities and industry pitfalls.

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Summary Takeaways

If you’ve never listened before, this episode is a lively, richly detailed exploration of why art matters—beyond profit or hype. It celebrates creation for its own sake, while cautioning listeners about the art world’s predatory elements. Above all, Jane and Alexis encourage everyone: go see art, feel it (even if it’s not for you), and support its makers wherever and however you can.

Transcript

[Raj]

Hey, it's Raj and Noah, and we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah]

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Raj]

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

[Noah]

We'Ll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

[Raj]

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noah]

And for the first time ever, we're gonna have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do em better.

[Alexis Hyde]

Love y'. All.

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[Jane Marie]

I'm Jane Marie, and this is the Dream. So I'm reading this book. Just started it and it has a great name. Ready the Salmon Cannon and the Levitating Frog and Other Serious Discoveries of silly science by Dr. Carly Ann York. It's basically about the V value of doing science for curiosity's sake. For example, back in the 50s, some scientists in Japan wondered what made a certain type of jellyfish glow. I wonder that as well. They found out that there's a thing called green fluorescent protein, or gfp. Since then, a bunch of scientists have tried to find cool ways to use GFP, and one of them won the Nobel Prize in 2008 for using it to identify cancer cells, their spread, and the effects of treatment. If that question was being asked today.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

In the I'm not sure that anyone would care or that they would have any funding.

[Jane Marie]

So I'm in the middle of reading that book, which is basically an argument for pursuing knowledge when this Week, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting got shut down. CPB was a nonprofit established in 1967 by Congress. Congress owned it to, quote, ensure universal access to non commercial, high quality content. The stuff of dreams. They funded things like Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, Frontline, all Things Considered. Why? Because at one point we agreed as a nation that education and entertainment didn't need to be created just to sell oil or insurance, and that it might benefit society. Liberal whack jobs. And all of that got me thinking about art for art's sake, which I thought was just a saying, but it's actually a philosophy. I looked it up and it argues that art is valuable in and of itself. It doesn't have to be political. And it's not just for certain audiences. In fact, it can be for no audience at all. Just the act of creating it holds value. Go write a poem, you'll see. And thinking about all of that made me want to talk to this woman.

[Alexis Hyde]

I'm Alexis Hyde. I'm an art curator and art advisor in la, and I'm also the executive director of the Quinn Emanuel Arts Foundation.

[Jane Marie]

What is all of that?

[Alexis Hyde]

Absolutely. Okay, I'll start from the beginning. Art curator is the person who basically kind of cares for the art and like, displays the art. So if you go into a museum and you see what's up on the walls, the curator's the person who chooses what goes up and why and what order. So at a museum it'd be like, it's a really big job. Cause they're also handling like the permanent collection. So of course, at a museum there's more than what you just see up on the walls, right? They've got major storage and they have to think about the future exhibitions of, you know, what's gonna be interesting for the patrons, what's interesting for their, the audiences and the visitors and the fancy donors. The fancy donors. And you know what's interesting academically? What kind of research can we go through? What kind of stories can we tell? What kind of stories did the art tell? And that's what a curator does, you know, basically. And then on a smaller scale, it can be like, you can go to a gallery that's having like a show that's all for sale. At a museum, the art's not for sale. At a gallery, the art is for sale. And at a gallery, you know, you'll walk into a room and there'll be eight pieces on a wall. And the person who's choosing where those go to look as best as they can is also a curator.

[Jane Marie]

Or like two people showing at the same gallery. Exactly.

[Alexis Hyde]

Two go together. Which two artists go together? Which pieces? Which five pieces from Sally and which five pieces from Joe to make them both look great and be able to sell the work the best and, you know, talk to the collectors, the people who are gonna buy them and come and see. And then an art advisor is basically the person who you hire to help you find art, to buy art.

[Jane Marie]

So that's for rich people.

[Alexis Hyde]

That's for rich people. Okay. And you know, the same way, you know, if you like went to a Nordstrom, you'd have like a sales associate and you're like, hey, I need jeans and this is what I like. And the sales associate's going to be able to know what's already in the store because that's their job. It's the same way, like, you come to me and you're like, I need some art for my living room.

[Jane Marie]

You work at the art makeup counter.

[Alexis Hyde]

I literally, yeah, exactly. I'm the art makeup counter. You come to me and you're like, I need a red lipstick for the space above my couch. And I'm like, great, here's three. Let's try these all on, see what they would look like. It is fun. It is fun. And it's like, it's nice because it can be something so easy of like, I have a space above my couch or like, I want to build a capital C collection that's going to go to be donated to Mocha one day because I know the market. It's a full time job to know what's out there and be able to give that to you and like, have also if you're good at your job. And it's like, okay, like, we've had this conversation about what your interests are and like, what the visual things you like and like your style. So I would also be able to filter out all of the stuff that isn't interesting and be like, here's what would actually fit for you.

[Jane Marie]

Can you tell me in your role as a consultant advisor person, the most regular kind of client you get versus the grandest. You don't need to name any names. Although that would be fun if you have celebrities that you're fine mentioning.

[Alexis Hyde]

The most usual clients I have are people who are interested in starting an art collection and, you know, just don't know where to go. Like, because a lot of people, you know, what are you going to do? Just Google art gallery and you can, and you can go to the gallery in your town where that is but what does that mean? Is the art good? Is the, are they going to have what you like? Because not every gallery has the same kind of art. Same way that not every clothing store has the same kind of clothes. Like, you're not going to go into Nike looking for four inch heels.

[Jane Marie]

How do people know that someone who does your job exists, though?

[Alexis Hyde]

People don't know. You know, it's easier now than it was say like 20 years ago or 40 years ago to like find these people the same way. Like, I think, you know, we didn't know that like stylists really existed or like professional makeup artists were doing people's makeup, you know, so it's like, oh, wait, you hired someone to do that and that's why you look so nice. I mean, I get emails from during busy times. 30 galleries a day. Whoa. Yeah. And so I'm going through like their, the exhibitions that they're showing and the work that they're showing. And each exhibition can be, you know, 30 pieces, 50 pieces, five artists.

[Jane Marie]

And you're cataloging them in your mind. And then when you have a client come by, you can say, oh, I saw something that I think you would like.

[Alexis Hyde]

Exactly. Oh, cool.

[Jane Marie]

Do they keep you on retainer?

[Alexis Hyde]

Uh, I have, I have had them that they do most of the time. I, I prefer to be paid per sale. So it's like if I sell you something for $10,000, I would get 10%.

[Jane Marie]

Okay.

[Alexis Hyde]

And then as things get more expensive, then the percentage goes down. So if you know, when you're buying something from me for a million dollars, I will not charge you $100,000. I'd probably do like a much less. We'd negotiate a fee. Okay, okay.

[Raj]

Okay.

[Jane Marie]

And then what's like the most grand clients?

[Alexis Hyde]

So the grand clients are, you know, like if you think about like Eli Broad when he was. And Edie Broad when they were collecting, he was now. And the Broad is the museum here in la. So before they made the museum, they were collecting and they had, they were buying. I think I read somewhere they were buying a work a week and they're buying these huge pieces. So they're going to the best galleries in the world with the best artists in the world, and they're buying the best piece because there was this goal of like a foundation of a museum that would become like a public facing situation. I mean that would be like the grandest is like, you know, a museum. As a museum. I want to make a museum or I want to, I want to make a capital C collection. That will be something that'll be so comprehensive and incredible that like I will donate it to a museum so the public can enjoy, you know, the fruits of our artistic geniuses.

[Jane Marie]

Okay. And you also ran a museum?

[Alexis Hyde]

I did. I was the director of the Museum of Broken Relationships here in Los Angeles while we had that here. And that was an incredible space. And that was basically a conceptual art piece as a museum where the objects that you saw when you went through the museum were donated from the public of leftover tokens of their broken relationships. So that's like heartbreak. Like romantic relationships, friendships, family, relationships with work, relationships with place, with yourself, with things abstract, ideas, countries. And you would go through. And I had about a hundred to 130 objects up at any given time. And you would read the story of what happened and where and when. And hopefully if I did my job right, which I think I did, you left feeling very connected through everybody's struggles.

[Jane Marie]

It's the most story based museum I've ever been to.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yes.

[Jane Marie]

What was the one with hair in it?

[Alexis Hyde]

Wait, there's one.

[Jane Marie]

Am I making that up?

[Alexis Hyde]

Okay, what was that? There was one. It was pubic hair.

[Jane Marie]

Yes, that's the one I'm thinking of.

[Alexis Hyde]

And she was trying to find out if it was matching her or him. And like what was going on? What was going on there? Trying to find some strays from somebody else.

[Jane Marie]

And it was like a bag of.

[Alexis Hyde]

It was a bag of pubic hairs.

[Raj]

Yeah.

[Alexis Hyde]

And that was not the only donation of pubic hair I got. But that was the best story.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

Okay.

[Alexis Hyde]

Because you have to think about, like what. Because I mean, there were some incredible objects that I couldn't, I didn't put up because, you know, the, the story wasn't as resonant as the object. So there was like a balance too. Like, so this is where the curating comes in, in that context is like, what are we, what are the stories I'm telling and why and how do I want you as a viewer who is coming through? How do I want you to feel?

[Jane Marie]

Oh, so you're like even thinking about the order?

[Alexis Hyde]

Oh yeah, yeah. Like how you're like walking in. So like when you walked in, the first objects that you read were kind of the things that you'd expect. So it's like a ticket stub. A woman had bought a cheerleading costume for her boyfriend who then ghosted her that night. So she was like all ready to wear that for a fun evening. And then he'd ghost, you know, so it's like these kinds of romance, like a wedding dress, a wedding ring, things that you'd expect. And then as you kept going through the story started to broaden what the idea of a relationship was. It wasn't just the preconceived notion of, like, all of these are going to be romantic. And that's when place and self and those kinds of things kind of get broader. And then as you walked around, there was a kind of a corner in, like, a little hallway. And then I kind of start to get the heavier stories as you go into the hallway where it's more secure and you're not in a line of sight. So hopefully you're feeling physically a little bit more safe to be vulnerable and receive. These are the really heavy stories where it's, like, heavy death and really major loss. And so that's where you can hopefully feel a little bit out of sight to feel safe to cry. That was where a lot of the crying happened. And then as you walk out that hallway, I kind of start lifting you out into stories of where people are looking back. And, like, this was hard, but I'm glad it happened. So I was always thinking about what looks good visually, how you're feeling physically, and, like, how that would be. Because if you, you know, if I brought you in and just, like, punched you in the gut with, like, a heavy loss story, I'd be like, how much is it for this museum? Why did I.

[Jane Marie]

Do I have to donate now?

[Alexis Hyde]

Maybe Can I get a refund? I'm just gonna, like, hop back out.

[Jane Marie]

What were some of your faves?

[Alexis Hyde]

I mean, there's so many. Like, my favorite ones were always the ones that were really tapping into, like, the big feelings that we all feel in these relationships that are. But also, like, so slice of life and, like, unique.

[Jane Marie]

I know they're all your babies.

[Alexis Hyde]

Like, you love them, but. And, like, some of them are fun where it's like, I have, like, you know, breast implants and like, that's, you know, it's like, a little shocking and. Oh, my gosh. But it was a really good story about, you know, what a woman did to try to please her partner and how it didn't work out. And then she had them removed and how, you know. Cause they were actually, like, physically harming her. And she sent those to me and in, like, a biohazard bag, and they were not well packed. And I. And I ended up meeting the woman, and I was like. I was like, she's like, oh, yeah. I just figured if they pop in the way, like, whatever. And I was like, well, you know what? Que sera, sera. And they're, you know, they were there. I think one of my favorite or one of the. One of the stories that was the most impactful to receive because I get the boxes. Everything's donated from the public. So it was like a call for objects. And everybody sent them in. It was incredible. I was getting 30 packages a day.

[Jane Marie]

Wow.

[Alexis Hyde]

But I opened one and it was immediately I'm hit with a smell of cologne. And it's all of these grungy old, like, under your parents sink, cologne bottles. And it's a story of a woman. Her late husband, he just passed of cancer, like, two years ago. And she had not been able to get rid of these cologne bottles. Cause they smelled like him. And she didn't want to throw them away. And you can't sell them. And they still had bathroom gunk and, like, little, you know, things, and they're all, like, half empty and. But it smelled like him. And she was just like, I hope I can, like, give them to somebody because this was him. And so, like, that was really so beautiful and meaningful.

[Jane Marie]

Do you send them back?

[Alexis Hyde]

No, I still have them all.

[Jane Marie]

Okay.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

Wow.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

Why don't you take the show on the road?

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

It is.

[Alexis Hyde]

It is on the road. Cause there's an original. The original location is in Croatia and in Zagreb. So an artist couple started it there. And so they. They tour it. And they also have access to my archive. So I can send them objects. I just can't send them 500 objects to Croatia. That's like so many boxes, right?

[Jane Marie]

The customs.

[Alexis Hyde]

I can't even imagine the heaviest one I have. Because I was actually going through my archives the other day, like, making sure everything was packed and, like, looking good and because, you know, conservation issues. And this is like trigger warning, guys. This is like. I don't like an actual one. A guy who. And this was after the museum had opened, he gave me the gun from a failed suicide attempt. And the story about what happened there. And it was such a heavy, like, interaction because, like, he was. It had been a while, but not long. And it was like, you know, he. Somebody called. It was just like one of those, like, unbelievable stories where, like, he's about to. And like, a phone call and then. And he didn't. And he gave it to me, and I had to, like, the hand off of. It was pretty. It was just like, so emotional because I knew the story because he'd asked me ahead of time. He gave. He'd asked me permission to, like, Bring this to me. Because he's like, you know, I'm not just gonna bring a gun into a museum. And I was like, no, I'd be honored. Thank you for not thanking a heads up. And like, you know, and it's. And I don't know, you know, they're physically. They're very heavy. So even just taking it is physically heavy and emotionally heavy. But the relief I saw on him when it like, it was unbelievable and he left like a different person. And I had to. Luckily I'm from Texas, so I know how to do these things. And I took it apart really fast.

[Jane Marie]

Yes.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah. And like made sure everything was safe, you know, and it was all. But it was really nice to have like, this is a place to like honor that story in a way that, you know, I mean there's, of course, there's like, you know, there's resources to be, to handle these things. But having it be like a place where I think he really, emotionally was so grown and like, he had this like growth and he wanted to also communicate. And I think that's like so beautiful too, where it's like, I went through this like, unbelievably difficult thing, but like, here's the proof that I made it and you can too. There was a story. So it was about a relationship that the person's talking about, about meeting this person online and then having basically a phone relationship with them and like how beautiful it was and how connected they were and how late they would stay up and like have phone sex and like these, you know, talking about poetry and literature and life and art and all of these things. And like, sometimes you disappear, but then you'd reappear and it would be like a light, you know, coming on. It was a really well written story. And then it goes into how I'm actually going to come to your work and I'm going to bring you flowers because I'm going to initiate this relationship with you and I. But I'm not going to write flowers. Flowers die. I'm going to do paper flowers. And it's not even just gonna be just paper flowers. I'm gonna make the petals out of like poetry that we've shared. And there's gonna be notes written around and they're gonna be pens so you can use them. So it's this beautiful bouquet of like these pen with like flowers on the end that are made out of poetry. And it's so much work and it's so lovely. And they're gonna show up and they've.

[Jane Marie]

Never met this person.

[Alexis Hyde]

They've never met this person. A lot of phone calls going on for months. They show up to that person's work as a surprise to, like, really initiate.

[Jane Marie]

This, which sounds creepy, but I also have to say, if you don't know someone's home address, if you're just. Yeah, no, but you know where they work.

[Alexis Hyde]

But you know where they work. You've had the conversations. You've been talking for months.

[Lisa / Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Alexis Hyde]

And so you've. And you've shared so much. Shows up to the work. Nobody knows who this person is. And then the person calls, and it's like, hey, what are you doing? And, oh, I'm at work. And it's like, well, no, you're not. I'm here. And they hung up and never heard from them again. Oh, ultimate catfishing. So ultimate catfishing. And I. So many. It was so many people. Because it's such a beautifully written story. Not one person got the genders right when they talked to me about it. And it would be so confusing for me because I did know who this person, because a lot of people brought me the objects physically, and they would tell me the story behind it, and I would, like, learn a little bit more than what was in the story. And I hadn't even realized, because I knew the person, that it was a man writing a story about a woman, that he had made the flowers. So people would come up and be like, oh, my gosh, that story about that girl. That guy. Or, like, the girl with the girl. Like, it was always some. Whoever was reading the story was projecting themselves onto it every single time, and nobody got it right.

[Jane Marie]

Well, also, you know, that's a. Only a woman would do something so crazy, right?

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, only a lady would do that. Or, like, only somebody. Who's this somebody who's that? Like, it was just always. It was like nobody ever got it right. And it was so funny. It was incredible because people would just. They'd be talking to me about it for, like, two minutes, and I'd just be sitting there thinking, what are you talking about? Because they'd be like, yeah. And then she shows up to her work, and she's doing this, and I'm like, what story is this? And then I was like, oh, my God, the flowers, the flowers.

[Jane Marie]

We'll be right back.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

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[Jane Marie]

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[Alexis Hyde]

Hey, it's Raj and Noah.

[Raj]

And we're back with a new season of AM I Doing It Wrong, the show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah]

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Raj]

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

[Noah]

We'll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

[Raj]

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noah]

And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you do them better.

[Lisa / Ad Voice]

Love y'.

[Alexis Hyde]

All.

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[Lisa / Ad Voice]

Hey there.

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[Jane Marie]

Yep.

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[Lisa / Ad Voice]

Shopping sustainably. And my sales, of course.

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[Jane Marie]

I'm Jane Marie. Welcome back to the Dream. We're having a discussion today with Alexis Hyde, art curator, advisor and executive director of the Quinn Emanuel Arts foundation, which is housed inside a very big law firm.

[Alexis Hyde]

Quinn. John Quinn of the Quinn Emanuel. He is an art collector.

[Jane Marie]

Okay.

[Alexis Hyde]

And he loves art and he thinks it's very important, which is wonderful. And he sees. And I see it, too, now that you know, we've had these conversations. Cause I'm coming from the art side and he's coming from the law side, where if you're getting a case, it's basically you just get a lot of stuff. And then you have to build something out of that. You have to build your argument, you have to build your story. You have to build your case out of just boxes. And if you're painting a picture, you have a blank canvas and then you've got your paints and you have to make something out of it. This kind of interesting parallel of like making something convincing and telling a story exactly and communicating through these different ways. But it is very similar.

[Jane Marie]

And here's how I see the world and how I'm gonna show the world the way I see the world.

[Alexis Hyde]

Exactly.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Alexis Hyde]

And it's exciting too, to have it in the office. Cause this really is. It's like lawyer, lawyer, artist, lawyer, artist. Like they're getting coffee together, they're in the, you know, they're in the elevator.

[Jane Marie]

This seems like impossible, especially in our current climate. This seems like what?

[Alexis Hyde]

It's crazy. It's so wonder and it is. It's so exciting to see how they make stuff and how their. Their perspective as an artist changes. Being in the office environment, I mean, at the basics, it's like great to give artists a safe place, you know, a secure place to work and, you know, with clean bathrooms and like coffee, you know, like Internet. And the Internet, exactly. Like air conditioning. It's like, it's crazy.

[Jane Marie]

Amazing.

[Alexis Hyde]

And when we do it in New York and London, it's like they've never even had a studio with like a window before. You know, it's like, it's. They're like. Their minds are blown. They have like daylight in their studios. But for the people who work at the office, they get to interact with artists in a way that so many people don't. And they also, they get to see and respect the process of what it is to make art. That it's not just like an after hours, like, like hobby. It's like, no, like they're coming in every day just like you are. They're working every day just like you are. Like they're doing all of the same things you do. So it's becomes like this shift with people to. It's like this incredible education that we did not anticipate, or I didn't anticipate when we started this on both sides. On both sides, where it was like, oh, now people are like, okay, like, this isn't for me, but I respect it. And like a lot of. I think not to get on like my little. Or whatever, I will. A lot of process has been lost in the tech drive for efficiency. And a lot of the people who are running these operations of trying to get. I'm not going to go off on an AI thing, but just to optimize and efficiency, do all of this stuff. And it's like the idea of working on a painting for three months is anathema to them. So the idea of working for, you know, two years on a podcast story that, you know is only gonna be six episodes is like crazy. There was a. I forgot the guy's name, but he was in Marty supreme and he was one of the side characters and I guess they had to do like 15 takes. And he's talking about how, how he was like, I should be running this. I would make it so much more efficient. Like, I think he was a tech guy and some like, side character. He's like. And it wasn't until he saw the movie that he understood what everybody else was doing because he literally didn't understand what it is.

[Jane Marie]

You need 15 takes to get it that.

[Alexis Hyde]

You need 15 takes to get the thing that the director's making and the DP and the sound guy and the lighting to get it all right. To make this complete product. It's not just, okay, you said your lines and like that was efficient. That was good enough. Because that's not what anybody's trying to make, right. So there's this like loss of like understanding of what it takes to make.

[Jane Marie]

Well, we've also become such a profit driven society of late. Like the wealth hoarding that's going on here where I'll have meetings with people that want to make a podcast and they'll say like, oh, I mean, I really just want it to be a success. And I'm like, talk to me about what that word means to you. Like, does that mean making money? Because this will not.

[Raj]

Right.

[Jane Marie]

Does it mean making a great product that will win a Pulitzer? Does it mean your family's going to love, like, what is the value? What's a success to you? Is it being super, super popular but not good?

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

Or you know, do you want. Is it just the most ears? Like, what's the goal? And I feel like we've gotten. We don't even talk anymore about it in terms of the value of it as a piece of art.

[Alexis Hyde]

Right? Yeah. And the value of doing something just to this thing.

[Jane Marie]

I was working at PBS for a little while, right, when I had my child, a part time gig where I was editing audio for this animated short animated series called Blank on Blank, which was like, we took tapes from print interviews, like microcassettes from print interviews with famous people that are dead. And we would animate this audio that was unused audio because I did a Tupac one and it was recorded in a diner with a micro cassette on a table. So crappy audio, you wouldn't be able to put it on the radio. But we turn it into a animated thing and it helps helped the audio live. And I did one about John Updike and he had a remote writing apartment where he would go to write, to get away from his children and his publishers, where he would, you know, like, the magazines where he would put his short stories and things like that. And like, when he would sell a book, they knew they were paying for that.

[Alexis Hyde]

Right.

[Jane Marie]

Like, that was part of. Of the value is like, we know we will get the John Updike book of our dreams if we stick him over in this apartment. And that's expensive.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yes.

[Jane Marie]

But their goal wasn't like, because this.

[Alexis Hyde]

Is going to be the next great American novel. Necessary.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah. We don't know. But we value it anyway. And this guy can't do it with all of his kids running around. So, you know, I don't know. I just feel like that's not on the top 10 list of priorities for creation of anything right now.

[Alexis Hyde]

It's not. It's not. And it's. There's so many talks of, like, you know, what's good for artists and what's bad for artists, what's a scam for artists and what's like, not a scam for artists. Because people aren't supporting art like they used to, you know, like the Beatles were on the dole, and that's how they were able to make their first albums. Oh, yeah, right. There were things that we were supporting so people could make stuff. Right. And it's, you know, funding, you know, is cut everywhere. And this residency specifically came out of COVID you know, conversations John and I were having. You know, it was like, early on, you know, we didn't know what Covid was. We didn't know, like, how it was affecting people. But we did know that galleries weren't having shows and how were artists living.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Alexis Hyde]

And, you know, and he said something to me that really, like, just I think about all the time. Cause he's like. He's like, we don't even know what we lost to aids, and we don't know what we're losing now. And it's so true. We don't know what we've lost, and we still don't know what we're losing all the time with people who have to work terrible jobs to do stuff because we don't have, like, basic government assistance for people to, like, live and get from thing to thing. But we realized that we had the space and the resources to be able to put some. You know, we can't put a hundred artists a year, but I think I'm supporting, like, six to eight a year and supporting them.

[Jane Marie]

They can pay Their rent off of us.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

Wonderful.

[Jane Marie]

All of society benefits from that. Everybody does like the art or not like the specific piece of art, but like, having museums is important.

[Alexis Hyde]

It is. And it's so funny because I think about how do you think the things that you like exist? You know, like, you want to have, you know, a beautiful outfit or a beautiful home, or, you know, go see a movie and you don't want it to be bad and you want to have a nice time and you want to have choices also. Like, that's the crazy part where people are like, well, I want something I like. I was like, right. But you also want to have choices. Like you want to be able to go to be like, okay, do I wanna watch a rom com tonight or do I wanna watch an actual movie? Do I wanna listen to rap music right now or do I wanna listen to something like, do I wanna go.

[Jane Marie]

To a botanical garden or a modern museum?

[Alexis Hyde]

Exactly. And you wanna be able to do those things because sometimes you're in the mood for challenging art and sometimes you're in the mood for a walk at a garden. And we can have all of it.

[Jane Marie]

If it's a priority.

[Alexis Hyde]

If it's a priority, but it can't. And. Cause it's also, it's not that expensive.

[Jane Marie]

But this is all profit driven.

[Alexis Hyde]

Everywhere. But it's all profit driven. I had a conversation with somebody not that long ago asking me how artists lived. And they're like, well, that doesn't sound like, you know, if they only have a show every like two years, like, how are they like, like really making money? And I was like, it's not about making money. That was so hard for that. Like, that person did not understand. They did not understand how that wasn't the goal. And it's like, no, they just want to have a comfortable life, like, where they can, you know, make sure that their kids are fed and there's a, you know, there's no leaks in their roof and they e. And they just make their art. Like that's it. Like, nobody's trying. Very few people. I'm not gonna say nobody. Very few people are out here trying to be the number one best selling artist in the world, you know, with the biggest commissions and the biggest museums. Most people just want to have a nice life and I can't help it.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah, being an artist, right?

[Alexis Hyde]

You can't. It's a compulsion. Because people ask me all the time. They're like, oh, well, you must be an artist. And I'm like, oh, God, no, I know. Artists, I'm not. Like, I do not have that compulsion. It's something they cannot help. And it's so wonderful and beautiful and it's good. The same way that it's so wonderful and beautiful and good that a scientist can't help keep making discoveries or that your lawyer won't stop until you get your thing right. Or your doctor's not going to stop until you're diagnosed. These are compulsions that people have. And it's wonderful that the quilt of the world, of humanity has all of these parts and like that you can't help but like tell stories to people. And I can't help but try to facilitate getting art out to more people as I can.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

Like, it's just.

[Alexis Hyde]

It is a compulsion and it's wonderful. Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

And the profit isn't in the heart of the artist. I have had the same conversation when I talk to, for lack of a better term, scammers who don't understand why I don't want to be a billionaire.

[Alexis Hyde]

Right.

[Jane Marie]

That does not sound fun in any way, shape or form.

[Alexis Hyde]

No.

[Jane Marie]

But I'm not saying that just as a moralistic thing. Like I don't want to be a billionaire because I think they're ruining the world, which I do, but that's not why I don't want to be one.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah.

[Jane Marie]

That is not attractive to me at all. And they can't wrap their head around it. Which makes the conversation kind of stall because then, because I'm not thinking that that's the end goal, I also then am not thinking, who do I need to rip off to get there.

[Alexis Hyde]

Exactly.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

Right.

[Jane Marie]

That that's just the end all and be all. And so the ends justify the means to them because that's the ultimate goal is wealth. And I just don't think it's okay to run a pyramid scheme. Right.

[Alexis Hyde]

I think there used to be a time when like, you know, the American dream wasn't billionaire, wasn't one thing. Wasn't one thing either. And it was, you know, not to be too American about it, but there was a time when even making movies, it was exciting that you'd be able to get enough money to have a fancy car, a good reservation and a second house. And now it's like you need the biggest yacht in the world and a fucking private island. And it's like, well, since when did movies have to all be two billion dollar juggernauts? That wasn't always the thing. And this is the same thing I feel like with art because of this increase for greed and it's like, it's so many people, artists that I know, you know, they just want to pay their bills and like, maybe go on vacation every other year, you know, but like, you see the galleries coming in and scamming things and like, you know, people see hopeful people with big eyes and big dreams and they're like, you are ripe for the picking.

[Lisa / Ad Voice]

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[BetterHelp / Acast Ad Voice]

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[Alexis Hyde]

Can't I just let it go? Wish I would stop thinking so much.

[Lisa / Ad Voice]

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[Jane Marie]

I asked Alexis if we could get into the scamminess of the art world and she said, definitely. Fakes are a thing. Watch out for those.

[Alexis Hyde]

So besides, like, just like the blatant, like, this is like, not a real, you know, insert artist name here. One thing that people love to, you know, and this is a scam against, like, art buyers. Like, you say, you want to sell me a painting and I'm just gonna throw out some numbers just to show you how quickly it can go. And you're like, I wanna sell this painting for $10,000. And Alexis, you're gonna get a thousand dollar commission for selling it.

[Jane Marie]

A painting I painted or a painting that I like.

[Alexis Hyde]

You own like, you already bought it. Yeah, you own it. You want some cash and you're over it and you want that space back on your wall and you don't wanna store it because storage is expensive. So I'm like, great. I was like, I'm gonna find you a buyer for this. And I call up my friend Steve. Steve is not a real person. I call up Steve, I'm like, hey, Steve, do you know, do you have any clients for this painting that I'm trying to sell for $10,000. And he'll be like, oh, maybe, you know, whatever. And then I'll be like, okay, well, like, I'm owed. Like, I need 10,000 to me. And he'd be like, great. So he'll call up his clients, be like, hey, I've got this piece.

[Jane Marie]

It's $20,000.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah, it's $11,000. It's $15,000. And he'll pocket that, and he'll pocket the difference, and then I'll get 10. And then he might also charge his client $1,500, 10% on top of the $15,000 he got. So he might get $6,500 out of it. And I'll get a thousand, and you get your 10. So, like, you're never harmed, okay? Like, you've gotten the money, but the person who bought it, who paid potentially, like, you know, they paid the 15,000 plus their 10%, you know, they're paying $16,500. So, like, they just paid $6,500 over what it needs to be. And then on top of that, what'll happen Be. It's a problem is that for the artist who doesn't get any resale, you know, there's no resale money. No. No royalties to the original artist. But then that person who has that piece who thinks that they got a good deal for 16, five, they might try to sell it in a couple of years and be like, okay, I bet this is worth, like $20,000 now. But the market is not that. Because the market is fake. They just made up a fake market that this painting is worth 16,5. And it's not. It's worth. Maybe it'll be. Maybe now it's finally up to 15. And the person who's selling the work doesn't understand.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

Got it.

[Alexis Hyde]

And they can't move the piece. And then the artist is harmed because everybody now knows that there's this piece of theirs out there that nobody wants to buy.

[Jane Marie]

Ooh, that's bad.

[Alexis Hyde]

And it's bad. And it becomes like this trickle down because somebody in the middle was trying to get, like, you know, a little bit extra. And then sometimes with pieces, it'll be, you know, it'll be 5%. 5%, 5% added on, like, between, like, four people before it gets to the sale.

[Jane Marie]

What's the solve there?

[Alexis Hyde]

The solve is almost impossible. But it's more transparency. It's more transparency from galleries about what prices are. Because if you're selling your piece for 10 and this person wants to buy it, how do they know what the right price is if the gallery's not telling you what the price are. If I could call up, you know, the gallery and say, hey, like, what? Like, I can. As an advisor, I have a relationship with these people, and I can be like, hey, I'm shopping for a client. What are.

[Jane Marie]

You should try it right now. You call a place, and then I call afterwards.

[Alexis Hyde]

I'm looking for this, and. Because it does. Because then they have to know, like, who am I? Whose prices are going out? And, like, people are crazy. Because you can. If you're selling stuff, like, I. I got somebody. I'm not even feel bad about this. There's this woman who was on TikTok and Instagram, and she got a really big following really quickly, and she was talking about art in a way that didn't quite click, but she was trying to pretend like she was an expert, and she was like, an art advisor, and she was gonna make you all of this money. She was gonna give you a really big return on your art. Which, by the way, that's a scam. If any advisor's like, I can get you 10 times. They can't. That's a scam. The same way, like, your stockbroker wouldn't. You know, like, you just. That's not how investments work, right? So she was talking about how she was gonna guarantee you, like, a return on the art purchase that you made with her. And I went. And I was like. I was like, nothing that she's saying sounds right, but it wasn't, like, 100% wrong.

[Jane Marie]

She was kind of presenting herself as a wholesaler of great art or something, or, like, a discount great art.

[Alexis Hyde]

But she was like an investment art advisor. Like, so she was trying to pretend like, I'm gonna help you get this art, and I can guarantee these returns, and I can get you access to all of this stuff. But then, like, when you went to her website, she was saying she was selling all of this work. And you could see, like, this is the Oliver Eliasson. This is the Richard Avedon. These are, like, all of these major artists that she'. Selling. And I'm looking at these pieces like, you don't have access to this. I know that you don't. And I contacted the galleries, and I was like, hey, is this someone you work with? Because I have relationships with the galleries that represent Abaddon and Oliver Elias, and. And they're like, no, I don't know who this is. They don't have these pieces. And so Cease and Desists went out. Website's down. All the things gone. I haven't seen her since.

[Jane Marie]

How was she making her money?

[Alexis Hyde]

Well, what she would do is she would say, like, I'm selling this piece, and she'd get her percentage, but she would say that she'd be able to resell it later, and she'd be able to give you all of this money, which is all a lie. But that's the scam, right? She's like, you buy this from me now for 10,000, and I'm gonna be able to get you 20 in five years.

[Jane Marie]

Okay?

[Alexis Hyde]

But there is no but. The sale's a lie, because there is no $20,000 down the end. There might be, but, like, she doesn't know that. Nobody knows that. That's not how any of this works.

[Jane Marie]

Right? And so I've watched vintage Antiques Roadshow. I know exactly that. You could get sad trombone on anything.

[Alexis Hyde]

Even if I love it. Even if you love it. The things you love the most.

[Jane Marie]

Sometimes I'm like, whoa, that just went down to $500. I can own that maybe.

[Alexis Hyde]

No, exactly. And that's, like, wonderful, too. Cause then you're like, well, this is the worth. The worth is, I love this. And the worth is, it doesn't matter.

[Jane Marie]

How I can afford it all the.

[Alexis Hyde]

Time, because I can afford it. Yeah, but that was like. That was like a real crazy skip. But people don't know. It's like, you look up, you Google art advisor. This lady has really good SEO. She pops up, you buy from her, and she's selling you something that maybe you don't like, but you're kind of entranced.

[Jane Marie]

Plus, she's jacking up the price. And how she can make something on the front end.

[Alexis Hyde]

Exactly.

[Jane Marie]

Yeah.

[Alexis Hyde]

So I got that shut down. That felt. That felt really good. It's a quick way for some people to make some money sometimes. Which is also funny because, like. Also, like, art's not very liquid. It's not something you can just be like, I'm gonna sell this tomorrow.

[Jane Marie]

Well, that was my next question.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah, heists.

[Jane Marie]

Like the recent one at the Louvre. Where do they sell that stuff? Didn't they take a crown?

[Alexis Hyde]

They took a crown. They probably broke that up for the jewels. Oh, that sucks.

[Ad Voice / Narrator]

I know.

[Jane Marie]

No taste.

[Alexis Hyde]

I know. No taste. Yeah, that was probably for the jewels.

[Jane Marie]

But, okay, let's say it's a painting. Which you can't cut up.

[Alexis Hyde]

Which you can't cut up. That is.

[Jane Marie]

You know, is there an evil villain with, like, a cat on his arm going, I need this. The Picasso, probably. And Then hiring henchmen to go out and take the Picasso from the museum and then having it in his bedroom.

[Alexis Hyde]

I mean, I don't. Like, just for the record, guys, I don't know. I don't.

[Jane Marie]

But I'm sort of the nicest person that we can. But, yeah, I mean, I would imagine.

[Alexis Hyde]

Yeah. People want stuff and they don't want to pay for it or they can't have access. Like, what do they do? They buy. They steal stuff. This is cool.

[Noah]

Shit.

[Jane Marie]

That's so weird.

[Alexis Hyde]

I know, but that's what. Like, that's why. That's the only reason why I, quote, unquote, know that there's someone out there. Because it's just human nature. You want stuff and you can't get it. People steal. Like, that's. I get my rush by, like, you know, going, like, where I'm, like, not supposed to, or I'm like, you know, there's a door open in a museum. I'm like, what's back there? Ooh, what if I just took a peek and they're like, you're not supposed to be here. I'm like, oh, sorry. I'm lost.

[Jane Marie]

I'm trying to think if I have anything like that. I feel like a wuss.

[Alexis Hyde]

I'm sweating, thinking about breaking the rules. But I do like to see, like, if, like, the art's being installed in, like, a room, I'm gonna try to walk into that room.

[Jane Marie]

Oh, my gosh.

[Alexis Hyde]

I gotta see. I gotta.

[Jane Marie]

To see what's going on. But you don't need to possess the art.

[Alexis Hyde]

No, no, no, no. I. But I want to be. I want to be the first person to see it. I want to be the person who.

[Jane Marie]

Like, you get the compulsion.

[Alexis Hyde]

I get the compulsion to be close to this stuff.

[Jane Marie]

Yes.

[Alexis Hyde]

Oh, it's incredible. I mean, especially, like, really good work. I mean, like, there's. Obviously, it's like my life, but I. You know, there's nothing, like, seeing some art that just, like, moves you to, like, tears or to ecstasy or to laughter or to anger, like, it's. It's incredible what a canvas can do. It's amazing. Go see art, Support art in any ways that you can. And even if that is like, buying something for, you know, a handmade thing off of Etsy for $50 or going to a craft fair in person. Art things, you can talk to these people and, like, a lot of. A lot of galleries, especially if you're in a big city like LA or New York, but even, like, your smaller galleries and your smaller Institutions, like, they have free talks, they have movie screenings, they have like, workshops which are like, super fun. They have curator walkthroughs. Like, these places all have this stuff. And like, a lot of times it's free and. Or very cheap. Like, you can go to like a gallery when they're having an artist talk with the curator and you can just walk in. You don't have to. Like, sometimes they'll say rsvp, but it's just like, so they can figure out how many people are coming and how.

[Jane Marie]

Many cups to have.

[Alexis Hyde]

Exactly. It's not like, about like you're gonna have an assigned seat. It's like, all right, are we expecting 10 people or are we expecting 75? Right, yeah. And so we can have enough cups. I cannot tell you how much these people who run the galleries and the museums, how much they care about getting this art to you. And it's also, it's sometimes good if you go to a show and you hate it. It's good to know what you don't like and why. Like, why don't you like it? I mean, the worst thing that can be is like, you go and you go, meh. Like, that's the worst reaction. Hating something is great because, like, why.

[Jane Marie]

Tell you what, I don't like pictures of people skateboarding. It's not my. Not my thing.

[Alexis Hyde]

And that's good.

[Jane Marie]

I could not care less.

[Alexis Hyde]

I have been on those photo shoots with the skateboarders and watching them do it, it's incredible. I don't want them. No, I don't need it. I don't need that picture.

[Jane Marie]

The dream is a production of Little Everywhere. For an ad free version of our show, go to TheDream SuperCal. If you have any tips for us, you can email us at helloittle everywhere.com or call 323-248-1488.

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