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- [00:01]
Howie Mandel
I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless, unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NO cd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's nocd.com this podcast is brought to.
- [01:01]
Unknown (possibly a sponsor voice)
You by Sony Pictures Classics presenting on Swift Horses Starring Daisy Edgar Jones, Jacob Elordi, Will Poulter, Diego Calva and Sasha Calle. Muriel and her husband Lee are beginning a bright new life in California when he returns from the Korean War, but their newfound stability is upended by the arrival of Lee's charismatic brother, Julius, a wayward gambler with a secret past. A dangerous love triangle quickly forms when Julius takes off in search of the young card cheat he's fallen for.
- [01:30]
Olivia Howell
Mary.
- [01:30]
Unknown (possibly a sponsor voice)
Muriel's longing for something more propels her into a secret life of her own, gambling on racehorses and exploring a love she never dreamed possible. On Swift horses. Opens April 25th. Only in theaters. Get tickets now at onswifthorses.com.
- [01:50]
Jane Marie
I'm Jane Marie and this is the dream As a twice divorced person.
- [01:55]
Olivia Howell
Ta da.
- [01:56]
Jane Marie
I'm often the friend that folks reach out to for advice when they're facing a divorce, which, dear listener, is nothing to be ashamed of. It's pretty much as boring as buying a car or having a baby or all the other regular human stuff. Usually I give them hugs and a few phone numbers of the lawyers I've used, but I'm no expert at this.
- [02:18]
Olivia Howell
Today's guest, however, Izzy My name is Olivia Howell. I am 40 years old. I am from Long island and live on Long Island. As you can hear in my accent, I am a single mom of two boys who are 8 and 11 and I am the CEO and co founder of Fresh Starts Registry, which is the largest divorce Support network and education platform for people going through life transitions. And I am a marketing expert and an authority.
- [03:00]
Jane Marie
Wait, slow down on the divorce registry thing. What?
- [03:03]
Olivia Howell
Sure. Yeah. So I am the CEO and co founder of Fresh Starts Registry. We are the very first and only divorce registry and Divorce support network and divorce education platform.
- [03:19]
Jane Marie
Okay, let's go to the origins of that. So you were married, I imagine I was married.
- [03:26]
Olivia Howell
I was married when I was 26, I believe I met my ex husband when I was 24 online.
- [03:35]
Jane Marie
Where were you?
- [03:37]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, so I. So it's a funny story, Jane. So I was on Long Island. I was teaching. I was a middle school teacher back my first career. And I went on match.com as they did back in the day, and he was in Connecticut, so Match.com matched us over the water, mileage wise. And so even though I wasn't looking for somebody out of state, and so he. That's so funny. Yeah, it's pretty funny. Yeah, the universe had a little joke in that one. And so he had moved, he was actually from the Midwest, and he had moved to Connecticut for a job before I met him. So he was working in Connecticut and we met and he started to commute out here, and then he moved out here and got a new job. But we moved very quickly. We moved in together after three months, and then we got engaged after a year. Yeah, well, yeah, it's called love bombing. So now I know that term. But. And so then we got married in 2011 and. And, you know, did the whole suburban thing. We bought a house, we had two kids. And then in 2019, I was actually April 15, it was tax day, my marriage ended. And. Yeah, so then that's kind of where the origin story of all this begins.
- [05:03]
Jane Marie
If you don't mind me prying too much, please. How and why did your marriage end?
- [05:08]
Olivia Howell
I love this question. Well, we came from very different backgrounds and he'd actually grown up in North Carolina and then moved to Illinois for his teen years. And I'm from New York. And though on paper we did seem like we were, you know, a great match, both kind of from Jewish Y families and, you know, both, I thought, wanted the same things. We really didn't want the same things in life. And to be quite honest, I became primary everything, right? Primary caregiver, primary laundress, primary cook. And it was a lot. I was completely burnt out. And, you know, it was one of those. We were young when we met and we thought we could do it and we just really didn't end up being People that were very compatible with each other.
- [06:00]
Jane Marie
What did you want versus what did he want? I mean, what did you find out that you wanted separately? Like, what were your goals individually for a marriage?
- [06:11]
Olivia Howell
Well, I think we both wanted similar things, but just not necessarily. Like, he was a bluegrass musician and an amazing, amazing musician. He really wanted to pursue that career. And he also was an engineer. He worked very hard. And so, you know, I'm somebody that really focuses on the little things in life. You know, I'm happy with the sunshine and hanging with my kids and drawing in my notebook, and he really wasn't as happy with those little happy things. And so over time, we just, you know, began to resent each other as people do. And there was a fair amount of emotional abuse towards me and psychological abuse. And so what happened really was I was binge eating a lot. That's how I was dealing with it. And so I sought out some help for that. And so I started therapy in March, and I think I said no for the first time to something in our marriage a couple weeks later. And then our marriage ended right after that. So, you know, I think it was me stepping into my power, which really kind of was the impetus.
- [07:28]
Jane Marie
Wait, in March you found your power, and in April, you were gone in April?
- [07:32]
Olivia Howell
Yeah.
- [07:33]
Jane Marie
Good for you. Oh, my God.
- [07:35]
Olivia Howell
Well, you know, it wasn't on my mind. I come from a big family of divorce. Like, literally every single person in my family is divorced. And I always like to say the thought of raising children with the man that I had the children with was like a foreign animal, right? It was like, whoa. Like, this is something nobody does in my family. Like, I was raised by both a step grandfather, a stepfather. Like, you know, so there was a lot I really did want. I wanted to grow old with this person. I loved him very much, but I also knew that I couldn't keep going that way, and it wasn't safe for our household and for my kids. And I didn't want to raise sons like that, quite honestly. So I think that it was also me allowing other people to see what was going on in my life. So I had my best friend, Alex. We met on Instagram, as you do with your best friends, and she and her son visited us, and it was the first time somebody really saw what was happening inside the house, beyond my sister, obviously, who knew what was going on, and she was like, olivia, you're being treated horribly. You know, And I was like, what? What are you talking about? I. It's only that I, like, do every single Possible thing. And I'm being made fun of and insulted all the time. That's total normal for my marriage. And she was like, no, it's not. Also, I had left teaching when my older son was born and started a marketing agency. And I was making money and I could do it on my own. And it doesn't surprise me that kind of everything happened on tax day, so.
- [09:20]
Jane Marie
Well, I want to get into the nitty gritty of that, if you don't mind.
- [09:23]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:25]
Jane Marie
Can you tell me it like one anecdote from your friend, your best friend visiting, that really highlighted the stark difference in your understanding between the two of you. You and your best friend, I mean.
- [09:38]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. So one of the big issues in our marriage was that he absolutely hated where we lived. So he hated Long Island. He was not comfortable here. And my whole family's here. And, you know, to be quite frank, he was not a prominent parent. Right. He didn't show up. He was not my co parent. Even when we were married. For example, when I broke my foot, I was carrying one of my kids. I broke my foot. I was off my foot for three months. And it was my stepdad that took my kids to nursery school. Right. And took me to my appointments. It was my stepdad who held my son when he got his tooth pulled out. Right? So I knew I couldn't leave New York because I would die. I would die without my family. There was no way that I could do it without them.
- [10:23]
Jane Marie
Right.
- [10:24]
Olivia Howell
So when my friend came to visit with her son, we took our older sons to see Wicked on Broadway. And while I was trying to enjoy that day out in the city with my best friend and her son, he was constantly texting me about how unhappy he was or he needed someone to help watch our other son because he had to play music. And it was like this constant barrage of just texts. And he knew these were the plans. And she just kept looking at me like, what's happening here? You can't even enjoy two seconds of a Broadway show. And then, you know, she stayed in our house, which we were pretty careful with who we let in the house because of the eggshells that we had to walk on.
- [11:09]
Jane Marie
Sure.
- [11:10]
Olivia Howell
So, you know, it was eye opening. And she has since come back to visit and we've had such a great time because it was different, a different energy. But, like, he wasn't very nice to her. You know, it's one thing when your family sees things. Cause I think sometimes families can be like, well, maybe he was just grumpy or he had a bad day or. But to see this outside person say these things to you is pretty alarming.
- [11:36]
Jane Marie
Well, your family's invested in a different way. Like, they want it to work out for you.
- [11:40]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. And that's kind of what happened.
- [11:41]
Jane Marie
They don't want to admit that you're in a miserable situation.
- [11:45]
Olivia Howell
100%. Yeah. And in fact, like, I distinctly remember it was December of 2008. We went to Costco with my parents, my stepdad and my mom. And my stepdad has been in my life since I was 10. So he's raised us. And I was walking behind my stepdad and kind of mumbling like, well, it's not that I want to get a divorce, but I'm really not happy right now. And, you know, kind of how you just think out loud. And it wasn't until years later that my mom told me that it was my stepdad who was like, did you hear what she was saying? Like, she's not happy. She wants to get a divorce. And my mom was like, really? Like, I didn't hear that. Like, so, you know, so I think sometimes different people pick up on different things. We were okay for a little while because he was playing in multiple bands in New York City, so he was gone a lot. And, you know, he would work as an engineer till 5:00, 6:00, and then go into Manhattan to play shows. And so he wouldn't come home till late. I would barely see him. And I remember saying to him, like, wow, our marriage has been really great lately. It's because we don't see each other anymore. And I was like, oh, that's not a good thing. I think, again, he was always like somebody that was looking for the next best thing. He was a malcontent. And so we took the kids together to a children's museum in Manhattan. And it's like, do you know the movie Father of The Bride Part 2? When they both look at the opposite sides of the street, right? And he's like, steve Martin sees the parents miserable, and Diane Keaton sees them as great. Yep, that's what it was like. So I had a great day with the kids. We had a fun time in the children's museum. And we get home and I'm like, wasn't that a fun day? And he was like, no, you know, it's miserable. And I was like, what? And so then there was some stuff that happened with my son. And my older son is a very sweet, loving kid. And. And I could see that there was some Things happening that wasn't very kind towards him. And so I kind of shut down. And then there was like a whole bunch of gaslighting that happened, right? So then it was like, oh, why are you quiet? Why are you sad? What's upsetting you? Kind of thing.
- [14:01]
Jane Marie
Couldn't be me.
- [14:02]
Olivia Howell
Couldn't be me. So the night of. And I will never forget this, the night of April 14, I couldn't stop crying. And I was like, what is happening here? I was so afraid to get a divorce. I didn't think that he would ever want a divorce. And my grandmother, who was like my soulmate, my beloved grandmother, had passed away about a year, two years before that. And even when she passed away, he was like, well, she's gone now. Can we move out of New York? And I was like, that's not how this works, dude. Like what? Yeah, like what? And so I put her flannel shirt on, and I was like, I don't know what else to do but pray here. And I'm not. I'm not like a religious person. And I just couldn't stop crying. I went to the living room, and I distinctly remember watching some horrible Nickelodeon show that was on. And, you know, in the morning, he came in and he's like, what's the matter? And I was like, I think we need to go to couples therapy. And he immediately said, no. And I was like, you think this is a good marriage? I'm like, what do you think this is? And he was like, well, I don't understand why you're so upset and what's the problem? And blah, blah, blah, right? So we ended up getting into. I always like to say it was like one of those big movie fights. Like, we were not. We're not fighters. And we were yelling and screaming, and the kids were listening. And something really just. It went off in my head, you know, again, I came from a family of divorce. I come from a family of lawyers. So I. I understand a lot. And I thought, you know what? I think that I need to be on my best behavior here because there's going to be things said about me that I need to be careful about. And so I said, you know what? You go to work. We'll talk about this later. And I called my parents and I said, something happened. I think my marriage might be over. And my biological dad, who I'm still very close to, and my stepdad and my mom, all three of them gave the same answer, which was, you guys need to go to counseling. Right? When he called his Parents to tell them that we had a fight. They said, you can come home.
- [16:18]
Jane Marie
Oh, so back across the pond.
- [16:21]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, exactly. So I called my sister. She was living in Queens at the time, and she said, I'm driving out to you. And we talked the whole way. By the time she got out to where I lived on Long island, she was like, I think you need a divorce lawyer. And I was like, I think you're right. And so he called me during the day, and he said, my parents want to move back to North Carolina, and they want us to move with them. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, we literally just had a fight about this. And so he said, well, I'm going anyway. And I said, without the children? Why don't we talk about this later? And so he came home that night. We were doing a whole 30 together, which was super fun for me because I. I kept trying to keep myself healthy. And then he would love to, like, tag onto that, and then it'd make it miserable for me. And so. And actually, I have an article I wrote that I never published called why the whole 30 can be used for Emotional Abuse. Because it was.
- [17:22]
Jane Marie
Sorry.
- [17:23]
Olivia Howell
And not to mention that it's like a cult now. But. And so, you know, he came home, and it was very. You know, it was calm. And I talked to my family all day. I talked to my therapist, you know, an emergency sesh. And he had a music studio in the house, and he was up there playing guitar, and I was cooking dinner, and I could see. See him into the studio from where I was. And I said, do you think we should talk? And he said, I think I should leave. And at that moment, no joke, one of my other friends texts me, and she just said, hey, Olivia. Like, what's happening? And I texted back, and all I could think of was, my husband's leaving. And she said, what? Where is he going? And I said, I think he's leaving, leaving. And I said, do you. Are you talking about a divorce? And he said, you know, I think this isn't working anymore. And his father was very sick. So, you know, I understood that. And so it was, honestly, actually a beautiful conversation. I will give him that. It was two people who really shouldn't be together who figured that out, you know, before it was too late. And I saw that as my moment to be free. So I was encouraging anything I could to make it easier for him. So we lived in the same house until August, which was super not fun. But I continued taking on the emotional labor of helping him move. I called the moving company. I helped him find an apartment. He eventually got remarried and had another child. And, you know, so the kids stayed here with me. I'm the primary parent still. But, you know, we email. I let him know if, you know, we're going on vacation. And honestly, Jane, I have no ill will towards him. I really don't. I think that him letting me go in that way was the best thing that ever happened to me. So I we truly wish him well. Like, I think we met when we were very young. We both were people from families that had a lot of shit go down and we needed to heal. And I would never be who I am if it hadn't been through that experience.
- [19:31]
Jane Marie
Here come the commercials that I don't program.
- [19:40]
Olivia Howell
Foreign.
- [19:45]
Unknown (advertisement voice)
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- [21:45]
Chris Duffy
We all have bad days, and sometimes bad weeks and maybe even bad years. But the good news is we don't have to figure out life all alone. I'm comedian Chris Duffy, host of ted's how to Be a Better Human podcast, and our show is about the little ways that you can improve your life. Actual practical tips that you can put into place that will make your day to day better. Whether it is setting boundaries at work or rethinking how you clean your house, each episode has conversations with experts who share tips on how to navigate life's ups and downs. Find how to be a better human wherever you're listening to this.
- [22:21]
Unknown (possibly a sponsor voice)
If you're a parent or share a fridge with someone, Instacart is about to make grocery shopping so much easier because with family carts you can share a cart with your partner and each add the items you want. Since between the two of you, a odds are you'll both remember everything you need. And this way you'll never have to eat milkless cereal again. So minimize the stress of the weekly shop with family carts, download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Plus enjoy. $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants. This podcast is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics. Presenting on Swift Horses Starring Daisy Edgar Jones, Jacob Elordi, Will Poulter, Diego Calva and Sasha Call. Muriel and her husband, Lee, are beginning a bright new life in California when he returns from the Korean War, but their newfound stability is upended by the arrival of Lee's charismatic brother, Julius, a wayward gambler with a secret past. A dangerous love triangle quickly forms when Julius takes off in search of the young card sheet he's fallen for. Muriel's longing for something more propels her into a secret life of her own, gambling on racehorses and exploring a love she never dreamed possible. On Swift horses. Opens April 25th. Only in theaters. Tickets now at onswifthorses.com.
- [23:50]
Jane Marie
Okay, so you get divorced. Seems pretty fairly amicable. And you've done some reconciling now in your own mind about like the sort of situation you were in and the relationship you were in. So you have clarity on that.
- [24:03]
Olivia Howell
Yeah.
- [24:03]
Jane Marie
Tell me how your business came along. I. I'm so curious.
- [24:08]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, sure. So a couple backstory things here. So my sister, who's two and a half years younger than me, she ended up coming on board with my Marketing agency. And so two weeks before my marriage ended, she got engaged. And so I was grieving my marriage and helping her plan a wedding at the same time. And, yeah, we were doing all that. And my ex moved out officially in August. And the day that he moved out, my sister and her then fiance came over and helped me completely clean the house out. So we moved. The rest of the things that were his, we donated. And I was still looking around thinking, well, but like, the sheets like that we conceived my son on are on the bed. And, like, you know, my towels with my monogram. And, you know, it was just so many memories, and it just held so much energy. And I was like, you know what? I had two baby showers. I had a wedding registry. I'm like, why is there not a divorce registry? And so I went online and I Googled, and the only things that came up were articles from major publications like Vogue and Elle that were asking the same question. Why is there not a divorce registry? So I called my sister and I was like, I think maybe we should do this thing. And I.
- [25:33]
Jane Marie
Right before your wedding?
- [25:34]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, it was like November of 2019. And so I'm a Pisces. I'm a big dreamer. My sister is very practical, and she grounds me. She grounds me, Jane. So she said, I love it, but I don't know how to build a startup like that. You know, it's very different than the company we have. Let's think about it. Joey says to me, let's think about it. So then the pandemic hit, and my sister was supposed to get married May of 2020. So the wedding was pushed off to September, and then it was pushed off again. And then her fiance told her that he didn't love her anymore. So then she. Good thing.
- [26:18]
Jane Marie
Good thing, though.
- [26:19]
Olivia Howell
Yep, good thing. Well, I'll tell you, she has a very happy ending to that story. So my experience was I stayed in the residence and had the things and stuff. Still, she left her apartment with literally nothing. She had some of our grandmother's antiques and her clothing. My dad came and picked her up. It was actually a wild story. My biological father. This just explains my family, I think, in a nutshell. My biological father had a cat named Elvis that he loved very much. He lives in Manhattan. And Elvis the cat died. So my father asked my mother and stepfather if he could bury the cat at their house. The day that Elvis was going to be buried was the same day my sister's married.
- [27:04]
Jane Marie
Cause there was no dirt near his house in Manhattan.
- [27:06]
Olivia Howell
He wanted to be Buried under a tree here so my brother could still come pay homage to the cat Elvis.
- [27:12]
Jane Marie
Got it.
- [27:12]
Olivia Howell
So my father and my brother and the dead cat Elvis picked up my sister, who was, you know, very upset from her apartment, and came out to my stepdad and my mom's house, and we all had a very weird day.
- [27:26]
Jane Marie
And a cat funeral.
- [27:28]
Olivia Howell
Well, cat funeral. And my son, who was 7 at the time, who is quite the. The dramatic one, wore a grim reaper costume to the cat funeral. So that happened. And then my sister decided to move back to Long island where we are, and she rented a beautiful old home apartment here in Huntington, and she had nothing.
- [27:50]
Jane Marie
And she was like, remember that whole divorce registry thing?
- [27:54]
Olivia Howell
Yep. That is literally exactly what happened. I got a phone call, and she said, you know that idea you had? I said, yep. And so she bought everything new. She bought a table from Amazon, and we set it up in her dining room, and we put the laptop there, and she built Fresh Starts on Squarespace. And that is literally the origin story of how that came to be.
- [28:15]
Jane Marie
So tell me exactly what this website is and this company is.
- [28:19]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. So Fresh Starts Registry. We are the first divorce registry and also divorce platform with experts. So we are the fastest growing divorce support network of experts and of the things you need to rebuild your life. And Fresh Starts came to me because I wanted it to be very proactive. Right. So you're moving on with your life. You're rebuilding your life. We're not bitter, we're not angry. This is about finding who you are and moving forward.
- [28:52]
Jane Marie
Tell me about the brainstorming session you had about what to name this company.
- [28:56]
Olivia Howell
Well, I had come up with the name of the company in my journal, and I very specifically said, I want to build Fresh Starts Registry and eliminate the overwhelm of starting over.
- [29:09]
Jane Marie
Got it.
- [29:10]
Olivia Howell
So to build a registry platform out yourself, we priced that out, and it would have been about $250,000.
- [29:18]
Jane Marie
Why?
- [29:19]
Olivia Howell
Because to build a registry, you have to have, like, options to add product, and then you have to have some place that either is going to drop ship or send things. So it's a lot of money. And we also didn't have any money.
- [29:32]
Jane Marie
Oh, you mean you being like the middleman?
- [29:34]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, yeah. So what we do is we have bundles of products on Fresh Starts that you can go build your registry. So the registries are built on Amazon, and it's always free to build a registry. We do not charge anybody to build a registry. What we do is we. We basically put products together in different bundles based on what people might need. So you can go to Fresh Starts Registry, click to build a registry and literally add everything from our 500 Quick Start bundle, right, which is sheets and towels and utensils and plates to your registry. And Amazon collects your name and your address. And so we don't collect your data. We don't want to know who you are because. Cause going through a divorce can be very scary. And then you can send that registry to family and friends. And what we also do is we provide language for you. So we have scripts that you can send and text to people with your.
- [30:32]
Jane Marie
Registry to alert them to the fact that you are now single again and need some help. This seems so much more helpful than a bridal registry.
- [30:41]
Olivia Howell
It is. And you know, and it's again always free. And so the other part of the website was that we wanted to have a one stop shop for the experts you need when you go through a divorce. And so we have built out an expert guide with over 100 experts. Everything from, you know, your typical divorce lawyer, divorce coach, mortgage lender, financial planner, but also hairstylists and yoga teachers, personal organizers. Because you know, divorce is a before, during and after event and you're going to need different people at different times. And again, it's always free to access our experts. It was really, really important.
- [31:21]
Jane Marie
I love the hairstylist being in there because I'm definitely 100% the haircut during a breakup person.
- [31:30]
Olivia Howell
Yes.
- [31:32]
Jane Marie
Like it's the first thing I think of when things are going wrong. It's like, well, guess I have to shave my head now.
- [31:38]
Olivia Howell
Exactly.
- [31:38]
Jane Marie
I don't know what it is.
- [31:40]
Olivia Howell
I mean, I think we all go through that for sure. That's the thing is you don't know who you're gonna need. And so we wanted to provide as many. And what's really important to us, number one, is it's always free to access any of the divorce resources on Fresh Starts. So to build a registry or to access any of our experts, we do not gatekeep. We don't collect your credit card information and we don't collect your data beyond like your cookies, you know, on your website.
- [32:09]
Jane Marie
So what, how do you.
- [32:11]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, how do we make money?
- [32:12]
Jane Marie
Well, that's the first question. But secondly, are your experts charging for their services after the fact? I'm imagining so.
- [32:19]
Olivia Howell
Yes. Yes. So we are basically a big like connector website, much like Psychology Today, right? So let's say that you needed a divorce expert. You would go to Fresh Starts and you would find, you know, divorce lawyer and you could get in touch with them on your own volition. The thing about our experts is that they do have to sign an ethos with us that says that they are non judgmental, they are shame free, and they are inclusive. It was very important for me and my sister that anybody that is going to represent us is absolutely open to working with anybody that comes to fresh starts.
- [32:53]
Jane Marie
Yeah.
- [32:54]
Olivia Howell
So that was important. And then we laid out this entire plan and then we thought, oh my gosh, how are we going to make money from this? Because it was so important to us to have it free for so many things. So we had a friend of ours say, well, why don't you do what you do best, which is marketing and pr. And we thought, well, that's a good idea. So we charge our experts $55 a month and we provide co working. We do PR for them for that price. You know, they can come on our podcasts. They have a profile, obviously. And so.
- [33:28]
Jane Marie
So you're like the yellow pages of divorce.
- [33:30]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, I never thought about it that way.
- [33:32]
Jane Marie
Yeah, you're just putting a little ad out there.
- [33:35]
Olivia Howell
Exactly, exactly. And we love our experts so much and we love getting their name into the world. And I am the one that runs all the. For our experts. And we've gotten our experts into over 1500 pieces of press. So it's a win, win for everybody.
- [33:52]
Jane Marie
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you do like an Amazon affiliate kind of program?
- [33:56]
Olivia Howell
We do an Amazon affiliate and we make very little money from that. So like pennies. But we.
- [34:03]
Jane Marie
Where's the rest of your money coming from?
- [34:06]
Olivia Howell
So we're still. We're.
- [34:08]
Jane Marie
You don't need to tell me this. This is none of my business.
- [34:10]
Olivia Howell
Okay, you know what, I'm. I want to share because a couple reasons. One is that we were down the investment rabbit hole when we began the company because people said, just like you said, this is a great idea, people should invest in this. Like, right. And so we worked for months on their deck and the whole thing and.
- [34:29]
Jane Marie
Trying to get seed funding.
- [34:31]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, we just, we were asking for a million dollars and I had one meeting with one man who spelled my name wrong in an email and then canceled on me twice. And then when I got into that world, I realized how incredibly misogynistic and anti women it is. Dude, it's horrible.
- [34:50]
Jane Marie
Yeah, listen, there was like a record breaking percentage of money going to women founded companies or even women in the C suite. I think it was 2023. It skyrocketed to 2%. Yeah, yeah, 2% of venture capital going to Companies with women in the C suite. Like, what?
- [35:12]
Olivia Howell
And by the way, that includes women investors, too, who are not giving money to women. Right. So we were like, you know what? This is kind of ridiculous. We're wasting time on this. And also, the other thing was, we would never sell our data if we even had it. And that was something that a lot of these companies didn't like. So we are completely bootstrapped. And I sold my house to invest in the company.
- [35:37]
Jane Marie
Really?
- [35:37]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. I live with my parents, so.
- [35:40]
Jane Marie
But that's gotta be so good with the babes.
- [35:42]
Olivia Howell
Oh, my gosh. I couldn't heal in that house. So for me to be back in my childhood home has been incredibly healing.
- [35:50]
Jane Marie
Yeah, I totally hear that. So let's talk greatest hits.
- [35:55]
Olivia Howell
Well, we have a couple of great stories. One is our publicist. You know, when you work with a publicist, you get very close to them. And she has been with us for almost three years. When she started working with us, she was married to a man with two little boys, and now she is with a woman and divorced. So she. She learned a lot about working with us. And we were just talking this morning, and she was saying how her life would never be the same if it hadn't been from learning about everything we do, so much of our passion. And my mission is to normalize divorce. You know, we were. We were in New York magazine. They did a big feature on us a couple years ago because we were like, we just want this to be a life transition. Like, stop it with, you know, shaming around it. Like, it's just. We don't do that to people when they lose their job. So that was exciting. Something that's really personal to me is I, as a solo mom, wanted to make sure that anything we put into the registry can be applicable to women who are doing this all by themselves. So we have a bundle that we've built in the registry for children's rooms, because a lot of people may not realize, but a lot of women have to downsize majorly after a divorce and move into an apartment, which is fine. It's great. And they may not have the same space for their children. And. And I wanted to make sure that it was items that a woman could build herself without the help of a man.
- [37:26]
Jane Marie
What do you mean, assemble?
- [37:28]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. Like, assemble? Yeah.
- [37:30]
Jane Marie
Like IKEA style?
- [37:31]
Olivia Howell
Yes, exactly.
- [37:32]
Jane Marie
Okay. Okay.
- [37:33]
Olivia Howell
Yep. So we actually got a video sent to us of a woman's new apartment, and she took a video of her children's bedroom with all of the items that we'd had in the bundle. And it was. I mean, I still get chills every single time I think about it.
- [37:48]
Unknown (listener voice)
I'm getting the keys to my apartment, I think on Thursday. I'm gonna measure everything on Friday, and I'll start moving in on Saturday and hopefully be able to stay at my apartment for the first time, sleep there Saturday night. I'm gonna put the registry link in my bio. If you want to look through it and tell me in the comments anything that I might be missing, please, please, please do. So I only have weird kitchen appliances, mugs from all the Broadway and West End shows, because that's the thing I like to collect. I like coffee and clothes and books. So please let me know what I need.
- [38:25]
Olivia Howell
You know, it's. It's those moments. The other interesting thing is starting in January of 2025 this year, I've started offering 100% free divorce resource consults with people. So basically what that is it's 15 minutes on Zoom with me. You tell me what's going on in your divorce and I will find you the resources you need.
- [38:47]
Jane Marie
Oh, my God. And that's free.
- [38:49]
Olivia Howell
Free? It's free.
- [38:50]
Jane Marie
That should not be free.
- [38:51]
Olivia Howell
Well, it's free because I'm hooking you up with what you need. And I hope that these people use our experts in our platform. But it's been really eye opening for me. Well, for a lot of reasons. No joke. The month of January for me is my friends texting me non stop that their marriages are ending. And I actually initially started it just for January and it booked up almost immediately. And so I was like, well, this is interesting. And so I'm actually taking some notes and stuff on everything. And it's been fascinating and really horrifying at times because there's a lot more domestic violence happening than people would like to talk about. But it's been so beautiful to connect people to divorce lawyers. And, you know, I have people who, women who will come to me and say, I am considering a divorce. And I've been calling divorce lawyers and nobody's picking up the phone. And I'm like, I got you. We're gonna connect you to somebody today. And our. Our divorce lawyer gets back to them immediately.
- [39:47]
Jane Marie
Oh, I'm so soothed in my, like, in the core of me right now. I feel so snuggled by your care.
- [39:53]
Olivia Howell
Oh, thank you. Yes. You know, I, I love doing that. I really, I enjoy it so much and it's been great. And we have a divorce podcast, you know, just, just I.
- [40:04]
Unknown (possibly a sponsor voice)
This podcast is brought to you By Sony Pictures Classics Presenting On Swift Horses Starring Daisy Edgar Jones, Jacob Elordi, Will Poulter, Diego Calva and Sasha Calle. Muriel and her husband, Lee, are beginning a bright new life in California when he returns from the Korean War. But their newfound stability is upended by the arrival of Lee's charismatic brother, Julius, a wayward gambler with a secret past. A dangerous love triangle quickly forms when Julius takes off in search of the young card cheat he's fallen for. Muriel's longing for something more propels her into a secret life of her own, gambling on racehorses and exploring a love she never dreamed possible. On Swift Horses opens April 25th. Only in theaters. Get tickets now at onswifthorses.com what if.
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Dr. Patrick McGrath
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- [42:13]
Olivia Howell
Basically build episodes off of the questions I get from people. So that's been what are the good.
- [42:18]
Jane Marie
Ones or the bad ones? Or what are what are the most common questions?
- [42:22]
Olivia Howell
A lot. One we just were talking about today is how to live with your ex when you you Know how to cohabitate when you are going through the divorce process. I'm working on a whole series about what to do with your wedding china and your wedding dress and your engagement ring. Right. Things like that. So we use our experts for that.
- [42:41]
Jane Marie
Oh, my God.
- [42:42]
Olivia Howell
Yeah.
- [42:43]
Jane Marie
I don't know. I'm just feeling so jealous. Like I want to get married just to get divorced. Just so that I could talk to you about this stuff. Because I went through all of this all by myself. But I love this for people that are coming to you. We'll be back right after these ads that I'm not 100% responsible for. What do you do about the haters? Cuz I imagine and there's plenty of people who are thinking you're promoting divorce.
- [43:26]
Olivia Howell
Oh, yes, we have gotten many haters. First of all, it's been very interesting to watch the media reaction to the divorce registry concept shift over the last three years. So about a couple times a year, we'll be picked up by the press and then we'll get a lot of people talking about us and we'll be on all sorts of different daytime talk shows. You know, not us, but the content concept. And sometimes you'll get news broadcasters that will be like, I don't love this idea. I'll just get you a bottle of wine. You know, I'm not getting you more things. You know, you. I've already gotten you wedding gifts. We've heard that so many times. Right, right. That's what they say. We've already gotten you the wedding gifts. And it's like the thing is that this, these are not gifts. This is support. Right. So I always like to say, like a toothbrush holder, which is kind of part of my origin story, is my sister got me a toothbrush holder. Is that that It's a physical manifestation of the support you can give to somebody. And, you know, people need cereal bowls so their kids can eat cereal. They may not need a bottle of wine.
- [44:26]
Jane Marie
That message that is conveyed by a gift, like a toothbrush holder also gives the soon to be divorced person a kind of a break from having to share the story over and over and over again and feel like a burden to their friends and family. There's comes a point where you're like, I can't keep complaining about, like, I don't want to keep telling this story to everybody, but I do want them to. I want support, but I don't want to have to like, rehash everything.
- [44:54]
Olivia Howell
Totally.
- [44:55]
Jane Marie
So I think that sounds lovely. But anyway, go on.
- [44:58]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. I know. And so, you know, so a lot of haters like that, you know, I don't. I don't know if there's still so many people that, you know, don't like divorce. We were, I think, written in barstool sports or something about, like, how we were wenches and how I. You know. And the other thing is, a lot of people don't understand our business model. And so the divorce industry, Jane, is incredibly predatory with people's wallets.
- [45:23]
Jane Marie
What is the divorce industry?
- [45:25]
Olivia Howell
Oh, boy.
- [45:26]
Jane Marie
I've never even heard that phrase before. Dan, have you heard of this? No. We're both divorced. And he's shaking his head now. We're what?
- [45:34]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. So there's all sorts of divorce platforms, I will say. So. We. There's some wonderful ones, like, we are friendly with and partner with Divorce.com, which does online divorces. They're wonderful, right?
- [45:47]
Jane Marie
Wait, online divorces, meaning what?
- [45:49]
Olivia Howell
They will help you get divorced online. So they have people who will actually help you through the process, and you don't have to go to a lawyer. So if it's a very, you know, amicable divorce, they have packages. So it's like their top package is maybe $2,000, and they'll help you get divorced and do it for you.
- [46:06]
Jane Marie
Okay.
- [46:06]
Olivia Howell
So they. There's. There's platforms like that, but then there's a lot of platforms that say that they have a lot of resources for divorce articles, things like that, experts. But you have to pay to. To access all of these things. And that nothing makes me more angry because people don't have the extra money during divorce.
- [46:27]
Jane Marie
Well, it's totally. It sounds totally predatory.
- [46:30]
Olivia Howell
It's totally predatory. So what people don't understand is that we don't do that. And we're the complete opposite. You know, we make our money from experts. And so what we get a lot of hate around is like, oh, you're profiting off people's pain. And, you know, things like that. And we're like, well, first of all, so do divorce lawyers. Like, how do you think that they make $700 an hour? And secondly, that's not even our business model. So, you know, we get a lot of people that say stuff like that.
- [46:56]
Jane Marie
Well, when you talked about your free consult, what sprang to mind for me is that if I had a free 15 minutes with an expert or. Or even spent $100 for that 15 minutes, it would save me so much money.
- [47:10]
Olivia Howell
Yeah.
- [47:11]
Jane Marie
There was so much I didn't understand about what I was supposed to be doing, and I didn't know who to reach out to. I found a pretty affordable lawyer, but in hindsight, she didn't do me many favors. And then I had to go into mediation over and over again, and that was very expensive. And if I just understood how the thing worked, it would have happened a lot quicker and cheaper if I'd had, you know, just someone to point me in any direction. Yeah, this was 10 years ago now, but I didn't know where to start, even other than going to Yelp and putting in, like, divorce lawyer on Yelp. But short of that, I would have paid 100 bucks to have someone say, bleep, bleep, blorp. Here's what you do, you know, or at least, like, show me where the resources are. So anyway, I don't think that's predatory at all.
- [47:59]
Olivia Howell
No, I mean, we're not. I mean, it's free. Right. I'm literally not. I'm. They can do whatever they want with the resources, but, you know, we don't gatekeep the resources. Right. So, like I said, you can go build a registry, access the experts. We have hundreds of articles, you know, everything, worksheets, so much stuff on there, the podcast, that you can access all of that. And I really, really try to make it accessible for different learning styles, for different safety things. Right. You may not be able to pull up the website on your computer because you're still not separated, but you can listen to a podcast. Right. So, like, you know, we're trying to give the same kind of information across the different platforms. And, you know, the really beautiful thing I think people overlook with the concept of the registry for divorce is when you can surround yourself with the items that the people who love you and supported you gave you, like a toothbrush holder or a shower curtain. And every time you see those, you're going to remember that you're loved and you're supported, and that's really beautiful. And that will snowball your confidence.
- [49:02]
Jane Marie
Yeah. How many men come to you?
- [49:07]
Olivia Howell
Not a ton. I've had a couple of divorce consults with men, but again, men are still. I think that's a bigger conversation about men's mental health. Right. Too. And, like, how they don't. They're not really supposed to talk about it, but I have definitely worked with men. We have had men build registry, but it's a lot more women, for sure.
- [49:25]
Jane Marie
And you think that's about. I mean, you said that's a bigger conversation about men's mental health, but what's the taboo there?
- [49:33]
Olivia Howell
I think that men are still afraid to ask for help, just generally speaking, you know. And so, I mean, I've talked to, let's say, 10 women a week and you know, one man a month, basically.
- [49:45]
Jane Marie
Yeah. But they're also, they're not in the same situation leaving a marriage. Like, they don't usually end up holding the bag.
- [49:53]
Olivia Howell
Well, that's the other thing is I talk to a lot of stay at home moms or women who don't have income or women who I will just call hostages, honestly, in their own homes. The women who are here on visas or who are here, you know, who have no income of their own, or a lot of financial abuse. And I will tell this story. I was on a consult the other day with a woman and her husband was following her around the house while.
- [50:20]
Jane Marie
You were on the phone.
- [50:21]
Olivia Howell
I could see it on zoom. So, you know, I think while we are in the process of destigmatizing and normalizing divorce, which is wonderful, we have to remember that we're still dealing with a high level of domestic violence. The most dangerous time for a woman is when she leaves her marriage.
- [50:38]
Jane Marie
When you say the phrase financial abuse, can you tell me what that looks like?
- [50:42]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. So financial abuse is basically when you don't have access to finances or financial documents. And this often starts as very innocent. Right. And as a. I'm gonna take care of everything and I'll pay the mortgage and I'll give you money for groceries. And then what happens is they don't let you have money. The husband's often. Or you don't know that. Literally don't know the password for the Chase account or whatever it is. So. So I've talked to many women and I'm going to say across the spectrum of wealth status. Right. So even very. What you would say on the outside, looking in very well to do women who literally don't have cash because their husbands don't let them have it.
- [51:29]
Jane Marie
Oh my God. I've just. Three of my family members just sprang to mind.
- [51:33]
Olivia Howell
Yeah.
- [51:33]
Jane Marie
Who aren't divorced because of this.
- [51:36]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. And like, I will, you know, they'll say to me, well, how am I supposed to have a consult with a divorce lawyer? I can't even pay. Pay for that. And so before we can even begin the divorce process of getting them there, we have to help them make some cash. Can you babysit? Can you cook for people? Can you help elderly people? And, and you know, I say to them, don't tell anybody where that cash is. Right. And it's. It's just wild that this is 2025 and we're still dealing with this.
- [52:04]
Jane Marie
God, it's so scary.
- [52:06]
Olivia Howell
Yeah. I mean. But I think you make a good point, Jane, is that. I mean, I'm on the north shore of Long island here. This is the Gold coast. And I talk to people in my own community who are getting thrown across the room by their husband or he's hitting the kids or not letting them, you know, spend money on whatever, checking to see where their bills are. And this is, again, 2025 and a very wealthy part of Long Island. Right. So it can happen anywhere.
- [52:33]
Jane Marie
Sure. Yeah. And I imagine the more wealth, the more the man has to protect from her.
- [52:38]
Olivia Howell
Yes. And the more that the men can fight for custody and spend money on it. And as much as we like to think that it's fun to marry a man with money, I don't want anybody marrying a man with money.
- [52:49]
Jane Marie
So are you ever gonna get married again?
- [52:54]
Olivia Howell
That is a great question. I haven't even dated.
- [52:56]
Jane Marie
Oh, wow. How long has it been?
- [52:59]
Olivia Howell
Five years. I was in major healing mode. I would say I'm just. Now I'm just 40, just. Just feeling like myself again, so.
- [53:10]
Jane Marie
And who has the time when you have two kids and you're living with your parents? I'm sorry, but like, that, too. You're busy.
- [53:15]
Olivia Howell
I'm busy. And also, my standards are really, really high. So, you know, for me, it has to be somebody that is gonna be great for me and my boys.
- [53:23]
Jane Marie
And additive.
- [53:24]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, 100. Because I'm great. I have a wonderful life. I don't need anybody. But I am also a Pisces and a romantic at heart. So, you know, I also. I also want to say that it's okay to not date and to just focus on yourself. I think there's a little bit of a stigma around that, too. It's like, well, you got to get out there again, and you don't have to.
- [53:44]
Jane Marie
I think it also depends on how important, like, physical touch is to you.
- [53:47]
Olivia Howell
Oh, 100%.
- [53:48]
Jane Marie
In my experience, with friends of mine that are breaking up or getting divorced or trying to be on their own, owning the idea that, like, you deserve to be snuggled, but you don't have to sell yourself to that person entirely With a contract called marriage. That is still. I don't know what to call it. Not taboo. But, you know, it's still something to confront during a breakup like that. Like, oh, I actually don't need to consign myself to this person or the situation.
- [54:17]
Olivia Howell
Yeah.
- [54:18]
Jane Marie
I used to go get massages all the time when I was getting broken up with or leaving a marriage, just to have that kind of physical connection.
- [54:27]
Olivia Howell
Yeah, it's really important. It is. And, you know, I also think, like, my mom and my stepdad, they've been together 30 years, they didn't get married. And my grandparents were the same. And I think that there's a place for marriage, but I don't really know why I would get married. I have my kids, I have my business. Like, I'm happy to meet somebody, but you know what? It has to be somebody that makes sense and, and your life seems good.
- [54:55]
Jane Marie
Oh, my gosh, I am so proud of you.
- [54:58]
Olivia Howell
Oh, thanks, Jane. I'm proud of you. And I'm so. I mean, I appreciate this so much. It's been quite a journey for us, and so anytime we can talk about it, I just appreciate it so much.
- [55:05]
Jane Marie
I just want it to get bigger and bigger and for people to understand that. I know, at least in this one area, if you can't talk to your parents or your, you know, friends about this, that there is a place to go.
- [55:16]
Olivia Howell
Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you both so much.
- [55:23]
Jane Marie
That's it for this week. We have a tip line open. Call us at 3232-481424-81488 and leave us a message about anything that you think is funky out there. What's going on, guys? Talk to.
- [56:00]
Unknown (possibly a sponsor voice)
This podcast is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics, presenting on Swift Horses, starring Daisy Edgar Jones, Jacob Elordi, Will Poulter, Diego Calva and Sasha Calle. Muriel and her husband Lee are beginning a bright new life in California when he returns from the Korean War. But their newfound stability is upended by the arrival of Lee's charismatic brother, Julius, a wayward gambler with a secret past. A dangerous love triangle quickly forms when Julius takes off in search of the young card cheat he's fallen for. Muriel's longing for something more propels her into a secret life of her own. Gambling on racehorses and exploring a love she never dreamed possible on Swift horses. Opens April 25th. Only in theaters. Get tickets now at onswifthorses.com do you remember the brand that popped up while you were scrolling your social feed? No, but I bet you remember who sponsors your favorite podcast. That's because 74% of listeners recall the brands they hear when listening to podcasts. If you want your business to be top of mind, podcast advertising with Acast is the way to go. Book your campaign today by visiting go.acast.com ads.