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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
Studies show that 100% of everybody in the world wants to curl up indoors and do nothing because it's so darn cold out there. That's why many people are turning to Bombas, whose pillowy plush slippers and warm merino wool socks have been said to be the most comfortable in the history of feet. Bombas products have been found to boost coziness by up to 1 million percent. Okay, enough fake statistics. But could Bombas socks and slippers really be the Cure? Go to bombas.com audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O-M-B-A-S.com and use code audio.
- [00:33]
Co-host / Interviewer
You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right at first. All you can see is a thin white line. Then the line starts to rise. You realize it's not the horizon at all. It's a 30 foot tall wall of water and it's racing straight toward you. What would you do on the day after Christmas? In 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation. In this season of against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of against the Tsunami in Thailand early and ad free right now on Wonder. I'm Jane Marie and this is the dream. One big dream a lot of people have is fame. Either by, you know, becoming an influencer of some sort, or maybe you get cast on a reality show and then that reality show spins off a show all about you, which is another show, and then you find someone to get married to and then that's its own show. Fame is a universal pursuit. But the pathways to that fame have really changed over the last few decades. We wanted to talk to someone who was there from pretty much the beginning on big shows like Big Brother, Love, Love island before we were watching TikToks all day, every day, swiping, swiping, doom scrolling, watching YouTubes, YouTubes, YouTubes,. YouTube shorts when there was just a couple of television shows on. What were we amusing ourselves with and who was on those shows and why did they want to go on those shows? Did they want the dream?
- [02:14]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah. So I am Danny Vicrambel. I'm kind of like theoretically a TV producer. I kind of like Work on things that get filmed. Some of them are TV shows, some of them are events, some of them are just random as fuck.
- [02:27]
Co-host / Interviewer
We'll go back to the beginning. Where are you from? You sound funny.
- [02:31]
Danny Vicrambel
My funny accent is. I'm from the north of England, I live in London. I've kind of like my career's always been. I work all over the place but my career's always been kind of based out of London. Went to film school dreaming of like making films. Went straight from film school into a graduate trainee thing with this, with this at the time, really influential, really cool TV company in London called Planet 24. And they were like, they were co owned by Bob Geldoff and they were who is.
- [02:58]
Co-host / Interviewer
Is way more famous there than here. But.
- [03:00]
Danny Vicrambel
But yeah, like it was combined this kind of company and they were called Planet 24 because the average age of a producer there was 24. So it was this really, really aggressive place to work that everyone kind of fought to get into. And they had this graduate scheme there that like 5,000 people a year would apply for for one or two places. And I was like, I applied for that, not thinking I'd get into it and then ended up being the last ever graduate trainee there. And they, they made a few like in, in, in UK terms kind of European terms, a couple of really, really influential shows. They made this sort of late night talk show music show called the Word. They made Survivor.
- [03:38]
Co-host / Interviewer
Okay.
- [03:39]
Danny Vicrambel
And it was one of the first iterations of Survivor and they did that and then. But the main show they did which was the one I got trained up on was this breakfast show called the Big Breakfast. And it was this two hour a day, daily two hour live show that was absolutely mental. Yeah, that had to sort them out. Here's a letter for you. The England rugby team's answer, the All Blacks hacker should be the Birdie song with Richard Cockrell leading the actions. That's from Jim Watson.
- [04:04]
Co-host / Interviewer
I really can't tell you what's happening on this show, but it looks a little bit like trl, the live show on mtv mixed with Pee Wee's Playhouse and a lot of clothes from the Delia's catalog.
- [04:18]
Danny Vicrambel
Families awoke yesterday to find digestive biscuits taped to every house wall and road sign in Trinity Street, Norwich. That's the sign for the pensioner revolution, isn't it? It's so obvious. They've been ghosting team on. It was really, really young and this is a pre Internet. So you were having to come up with constant, kind of constant ideas like little formats basically on the show and kind of interview concepts and. And just as I got my job on it, they announced it was gonna get axed, which in a weird way worked out really well for me because all these people had worked on it for 10 years, really competitive show to work on. And they all started leaving to get new jobs. And I started as the trainee. Had never been in an office before, never been in a production company before, never been on a working real set before. And they just threw me in to direct and produce loads of things. So it was just like amazing. She got thrown into like. I remember the first. There was this segment on there called Snap, Crackle and Pop, which is where they interviewed, like bands and musicians. And I remember it was like my first couple of days in the office and they sent me out to direct and produce this interview with Brandy and then one with this band called the Hives, with this kind of big punk band from Sweden. And they didn't tell me what I was meant to be doing on this thing. And I got there like with my 19 pages of research had written out, and he's like, this band had obviously just been out all night the day before, were wheeled in to do this interview and I'm like, so you come from a town called Vargastar in northern Sweden, where the biggest industry is steel mining and da da da da da. And they just started laughing at me and I'm like, well, 20% of the time, do this. And you decided to do this and then you went to school and they just started laughing and we're like, he was this fucking nerd doing it. It ended up being like a really good interview because they were just like, what? And it's like. And then the managers just like, ask them about the single, ask them the date the single comes out. And it was just like getting thrown in. Then like a few hours later, it was like interviewing Brandi and like the Boy Is Mine had just come out and I was just like totally starstruck and like in a room with Brandi. And it just got thrown in to do all these kind of mad things.
- [06:19]
Co-host / Interviewer
Coincidentally, at the beginning of the Boy Is Mine music video, Brandy is watching Jerry Springer.
- [06:27]
Danny Vicrambel
And what was amazing, I say amazing and horrific about that environment of working there is. It was like the most aggressive place I've ever worked. There was always someone in tears. So I turn up in this. I've just gone through this, like three day interview process to get this graduate trainee job. Like, brutal. Going on my first day of work. I've never been like, in a production company before you get taken into this office. And it feels like an active live newsroom. Just like rows of desks, stress, people screaming at each other. Like, the woman from hr, like, walks me in. No one looks up. No one gives a fuck about me kind of walking in. She puts me down in this chair in front of someone's office and she's like, someone will come out and get you in a minute. Just like, stay there. So I'm just sat on this chair being ignored by everyone. Half an hour later, I'm like, no one's come and got me. I don't know, should I go and tell someone? I don't know what I meant to do. So I'm just, like, sat there. I feel this tap on my shoulder and look up and there's this guy and he looks across the room and he goes, has someone lost a cunt? Someone seems to have left a cunt here outside my office. Who's this cunt? Is anyone. Is this anyone's cunt they've left here? And the woman from HR sees him doing it, like, runs across the room and he's just murmuring under his breath, going, little fucking cunt, like, grabs me behind. She goes, I'm really sorry about that. That's Ben. He's your boss.
- [07:44]
Co-host / Interviewer
Oh, no.
- [07:46]
Danny Vicrambel
And I was just like, here we go.
- [07:48]
Co-host / Interviewer
He wasn't joking.
- [07:49]
Danny Vicrambel
Nope. Like, that was the environment. And they'd have these meetings there every day. Like, whatever level you were at, have these meetings at 5am where you'd have to go in and just pitch a lot. You had to have read all the newspapers before, then go in at 5 and pitch in ideas. And even if you were just, like, a trainee, like I was then, if your ideas were bad, yeah, like, you could get punched in the face, like, they'd throw something at you. Like, they'd kick you out of the room. So the level of just, like, competition in that room to just not be.
- [08:22]
Co-host / Interviewer
Like, attacked, what was that about?
- [08:24]
Danny Vicrambel
It was just. It was like that kind of period. This is like the early noughties coming out the 90s. Early noughties. That period of time in London particularly was everyone got jobs by who they were out with in a private members club at 5am the day before. Like, the whole environment was like, super aggressive. And culture then. I don't know what it was like over here, but culture in London then was like. It was lads mags and everything was like. It was magazines, like, Loaded and fhm.
- [08:50]
Co-host / Interviewer
Fhm.
- [08:51]
Danny Vicrambel
I was just gonna say, like, that like the culture was just like super aggressive then. And that was just the environment everyone worked in. And it was just. And like. And like the whole vibe then was.
- [09:00]
Co-host / Interviewer
Was there any women?
- [09:02]
Danny Vicrambel
There were a few, but mostly dudes. Black men. Mostly men. This is like very typical of the industry, the industry now and the industry of that time. Like, I'm from like a council estate in the north of England, went to a normal school. Like when they. On my last day of the three day interview to get that job. The guy who ran it, who was this like super posh boy, aggressive, like, who had this really aggressive final interview with him where he just basically tore me apart. And in the interview he went, what do your parents do for a living? And I just went, you know what, it's none of your fucking business what my parents do for a living. And he's like. And I was just like, if you want to interview them for a job, interview them. I'm like, I'm not telling you what they did for 11. Da, da, da. And this just sums up the place. He was like, oh, that's when I decided I'd give you a job because you fought back. I'm like, whatever. And he was like, I've never given anyone a job before. Didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge. Why should I give you a job?
- [10:00]
Co-host / Interviewer
I'm like, that sounds like a you problem.
- [10:01]
Danny Vicrambel
I'm like, I'm like, you decide whether you want to give me a job or not. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't care at this point, particularly. I've been brutalized for three days. I want to work here. Like just. Yeah, like just. Yeah. And that was like, that was kind of the.
- [10:14]
Co-host / Interviewer
Did you endeared yourself to them by just not putting up with their shit?
- [10:18]
Danny Vicrambel
I think I was like, very different to the other people there. And I'm confident in myself. Like, I didn't care what he thinks. I didn't care what he thought of me. Yeah, like, I know I'm pretty good. Yeah. Like what I do. And just. Yeah, I was just a very different person. And I think that point of difference was good. Yeah, I mean the whole industry's always been a kind of posh boys club. It particularly was then.
- [10:41]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah, I don't think it's the way it is out here.
- [10:43]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah, I think it's. I think it's different. It's like there was a period then in Britain where it was like getting those, like now it isn't like this, but getting those TV jobs. Then it was a Real stepping stone to like, oh, and then I'll run a media empire. Like I'll go in and run the end up. You know, the dream was like to end up running the BBC. Yeah, yeah. And now it's like, it's sort of embarrassing to say you work in tv, but back then it was like that was the stepping stone. And this was the beginning of the wave of reality TV becoming like an international juggernaut. And we were like the, as a country on the. On the forefront of doing a lot of those shows.
- [11:19]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [11:20]
Danny Vicrambel
So Big Brother in Britain at that time was like the biggest show on TV was enormous.
- [11:23]
Co-host / Interviewer
Right.
- [11:24]
Danny Vicrambel
It just come out of. Out of Holland. The British one, when it broke, is one of the. One of the biggest ones. It was this massive, massive show.
- [11:30]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [11:30]
Danny Vicrambel
And that show got axed, which was like a big deal when that got. And the company that made it ended kind of collapsing. So I went straight from there to this massive, massive company called Endermell.
- [11:42]
Co-host / Interviewer
Oh, I know Endermell.
- [11:43]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah. So Endermell were like a format machine.
- [11:46]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [11:46]
Danny Vicrambel
So Big Brother was the big one. They were making loads of shows of that type, big formatted reality shows. There was this kind of big international group, kind of main office was kind of in Holland, but the London office was really big. Very different vibe from the place I'd just come from. So there was like a lot of, like, really smart people there doing really cool things.
- [12:06]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [12:06]
Danny Vicrambel
And I kind of ended up in the reality space there. So I ended up working on Big Brother, kind of generally on the creative side, did a load of different jobs, was on it for a few years, and I just got on really well with like, the guy who was my boss there. And they really trusted me and promoted me a load of times really quickly. And then there, in that time of doing Big Brother, there were a load of other shows of that type that we made that I got to do a bit of work on. Like, one of them was this. Was this show called Space Cadets. We put on a fairground ride of a spaceship and convinced them they were in space.
- [12:40]
Co-host / Interviewer
No.
- [12:40]
Danny Vicrambel
And they thought they were in space for a week and then. Wait, how so? Like this show, Space Cadets, right. They got these people, the first thing they did with them was took them to a military air base, put them on a plane, circled the plane around for like five hours. It landed in the countryside in Britain, like 20 minutes away. We told them they'd landed in Russia. So we landed them on a military base in the middle of nowhere, had dressed this military base as Russia employed a load of actors who talk like this and met them off the plane. They were like, welcome to Russia. And like in this military base we'd like put Russian number plates on the cars and bought Russian cigarettes and like, it was just like, it was weird. And then we gave them loads of like lectures on stage travel but by actors in Russian accents doing this. They do all their lessons and then we put them in this. It was like a fake space shuttle that we rented in. It was the special effects company from Hollywood that like brought this space shuttle in that had been used in a couple of big sort of space films. And it was like on hydraulics and sort of shook up and down. There were like massive screens in front of it, like broadcasting space into it. And like one of the lectures they had was. And now we've invented this new thing that's an anti gravity box. So you think you're going to be floating around but you're not going to be floating around because we pressed the anti gravity box. And they lived on the ship for a few days thinking were in space.
- [14:05]
Co-host / Interviewer
Wait, wait, wait, wait. How did it get so. Sorry, how did the ship get to snake noises?
- [14:10]
Danny Vicrambel
They go on it and it vibrates, it shakes like a, like you're at Disney or something. It's a prop, it's a prop, it's a prop. And there's like. And the big screens in front of it are showing like them hurtling through space and then it settles in and they think they're in space. And like my job on that was like coming up with just like weird challenges and stuff for them to do, like thinking they were in space. And then, and then it ended.
- [14:31]
Co-host / Interviewer
Every time you say thinking they were in space, it's just like so embarrassing.
- [14:34]
Danny Vicrambel
And then it like it ended and it landed. You know, the spaceship shakes and it lands and they open the door and a load of people are clapping out them going hahaha, you're not in space. And it was just really cruel and weird. And these people just like thought they were applying for an unnamed reality show. Didn't think they were applying to go to space. They just wanted to like go to a villa on a beach and you know what I mean, do like reality show stuff. I remember like some of the, some of the shows we pitched back then and I think back on it and I'm like, we actually went in a room and said this and this nearly got made. They were like, one of them was like ugly boy band. So we get a load of really ugly people. And we form a boy band, but it's like an ugly boy band. And then we try and make them famous and everyone's like, cool, yeah, cool, cool, yeah. Like, and you'd go into these like meetings and network this stuff in.
- [15:27]
Co-host / Interviewer
It's that time of year again. The holidays are coming fast. And if your kids are anything like mine, that wish list is getting pretty long. Let's be honest, some of the things on that list make us stop and think. Like a smartphone. Do they actually need all that stuff to stare at? Well, no, they don't just get them a gab. I got one for my kid. It has tracking, which I only look at every once in a while because I don't like to spy on her. It has a phone number. Very helpful. And it has a list of people you can text that I approve. Plus I can spy on the text, which I don't do. Haven't had to yet. But if something weird comes in on one of those texts, I do get a notification and then I look and it's just some dumb YouTube makeup video that the Gab phone doesn't let you watch. So win, win, win, win, win, win. I love it. Gab offers phones and watches made just for kids. No Internet, no social media, and just the right features for their age. Kids want phones to feel independent and connected. And as parents, we want to know they're safe. With Gab, you can have both and protect them from the scary stuff. With Gab's Tech in steps approach, kids get the right tech at the right time. From watches with GPS tracking for the youngest explorers to the perfect first phone with no Internet or social media. To the teen phones with parent approved apps. So get ready for a Christmas morning. They'll never forget the one where they get their first phone. And really it's a gift for you too. Because these kidsafe phones will give you peace of mind. Visit gab.comthedream and use code the dream for a special holiday offer. That's gabb.com thedream gab tech in steps. Independence for them. Peace of mind for you. Okay, real talk here, dream listeners. Most holiday gifts end up in a drawer somewhere or in the back of your closet. I know I've forgotten a few at Grandma Ruth's before, but I've got a gift idea you'll actually use every day. Mint Mobile has their best deal of the year right now. Unlimited premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month. 15? You can pick a 3, 6 or 12 month plan, all with High speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. Switching to Mint Mobile is easy. I got to keep my phone, my perfect phone number. If you know, you know. And I got to keep money that I would have been sending to my old carrier. The service is great, the price is kind of unbelievable and honestly, it just works. So skip the tchotchkes this year and give the gift of wireless for only $15 a month. Go to mintmobile.com thedream that's mintmobile.com thedream Limited time offer upfront payment of $43 for three months. $90 or 180 for 12 months. Plan required $15 a month equivalent taxes and fees extra initial plan term only. Over 35 gigs. May slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Ability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.
- [18:02]
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- [18:08]
Podcast Host
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- [18:11]
Commercial Announcer 1
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- [18:15]
Danny Vicrambel
And disinfectants to floor scrubbers.
- [18:18]
Commercial Announcer 1
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- [18:22]
Co-host / Interviewer
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- [18:33]
Podcast Host
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- [19:07]
Danny Vicrambel
So I ended up working on Big Brother. Was mainly working on Big Brother, but doing all these other kind of random shows. And my main job on Big Brother, the one that I spent the most time on, was like running all of the challenges and games and the formatting and working on the formatting of the show. So every year the show would have a different theme. Like one year it would be evil, the next year it would be like something else. And then like all of the content within there would have to fit around that theme.
- [19:30]
Co-host / Interviewer
Got it.
- [19:30]
Danny Vicrambel
And that was a really, really tough job and a really, really amazing job. Cause the show was on daily, so you'd be throwing in, like, challenges and tasks every day, and the show would last 10 weeks.
- [19:43]
Co-host / Interviewer
So did you guys, like, invent that?
- [19:46]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah, I mean.
- [19:47]
Co-host / Interviewer
Cause I think, like, most reality television has turned into that just to get some. Not B roll, but, like, those are the parts of the Real Housewives that I fast forward when they're, like, on the beach and we're gonna do a sack race or whatever, you know, they're, like, doing something just to, like, have more hours in the show or something. Like Love Island's like that.
- [20:06]
Danny Vicrambel
I think it is. I think. Yeah. I think Big Brother back then, it was like the days of still thinking these shows were like social experiments. And in some ways back then, they were. Because the thing that's really interesting about Big Brother that still has a level of purity about it is there's not producers in there on the floor. You're in a house fixed rig cameras. You're in there for weeks and weeks at a time, and you'll go into, like, a diary room and talk to Big Brother, but there's not producers on the floor.
- [20:31]
Co-host / Interviewer
There's no people around.
- [20:32]
Danny Vicrambel
There's no people doing it. So it is a relatively pure show that's interesting in. They're in this bubble. It's being filmed. Like, people are much more savvy to it now, but back then, particularly, like, yeah, you were watching them just going about their lives in this weird environment. So there was, like, a level of purity to it. Yeah, but, like, and. But back then, people thought what they loved about it is. And people would always go, yeah, just put normal people in and leave them just doing their stuff and making their breakfast. The reality of watching that is it's tedious.
- [21:00]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [21:02]
Danny Vicrambel
So, like, so. So the way the producing work there is you had to get them to do things not invisibly, but get them to do things without going in and producing them on the floor. That was still going to drive content. So every challenge, task, game, what was.
- [21:13]
Co-host / Interviewer
It coming to them? Like, on a piece of paper or something?
- [21:15]
Danny Vicrambel
Bit of paper, like a voice of God, which is like, when you talk to them through the speakers as Big Brother. So part of my job was being Big Brother. I was Big Brother. Big Brother has gathered housemates at the dining table. For today's task, housemates must collectively shed enough tears to fill one teaspoon. Okay, Craig, try and take yourself to that dark place. Big Brother may try and help you get the tears flowing. I was thinking, like, what was. What's quite Interesting is because I've got quite a distinctive voice anyway, and I just did all the challenges and stuff. Generally, when you're Big Brother, there's a load of rules that you have to rule by of, like, you've got to be Big Brother kind of personality free.
- [22:03]
Co-host / Interviewer
Okay.
- [22:03]
Danny Vicrambel
You know, I mean, you're. You're not a person, you're Big Brother. Because I was doing all the weird stuff.
- [22:07]
Co-host / Interviewer
Had you read 1984 at that point?
- [22:09]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah.
- [22:09]
Co-host / Interviewer
Okay.
- [22:09]
Danny Vicrambel
It's like super 1984. Because I was doing all the challenges and stuff with them, I was allowed to mess around a lot more.
- [22:16]
Co-host / Interviewer
Oh, okay.
- [22:17]
Danny Vicrambel
So I could kind of say whatever I wanted. I had this, like. Yeah. And it was like. It was very much my voice. When they knew when it was my voice, they were going to be doing something weird or fun or whatever, so I could like, do kind of whatever I wanted. And then there was a point in there where, like, the biggest magazine in Britain at that time was Heat magazine. It was a gossip magazine. They started getting. They did a lot and they did loads of content about Big Brother. Big Brother was like the biggest media entertainment story when it was on. So they did loads of stuff by Big Brother. All of their covers would be Big Brother covers. When we ran and they started getting fan mail about my voice. So they. They were like, oh, we want to interview you about the weird Geordie. Big Brother, who does this, says the weird stuff to them. And basically my boss got really jealous and was like, no, you can't do that interview because Big Brother's meant to be anonymous and da, da, da, da, da. So they did. So they ran that.
- [23:06]
Co-host / Interviewer
Surprise me.
- [23:06]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah. So they ran an article on me, but I couldn't input into it. That was like, about the weird. The weird one with the northern accent who does the stuff. Some of the clips I've ran, every so often someone will send me a clip. They found me and I'm. I was allowed to do that on the show. One of the challenges we did was you could win a date with Big Brother, which basically meant you won a date with me. So they'd go into the diary room and we'd set it up. There's like a bottle of wine in front of them and a table or whatever. And I'd be like, hi, Anthony. Under the table is a bottle of champagne and two glasses. Big Brother, seriously, I know your game. You're trying to get me drunk, aren't you? And they're so disturbed of doing anything normal or normal human. They get, like, dressed up to go in this date. And they're like, hi, like. And this is, like, with men, women, like, all of them, like, whatever. And I'm like, and what do you want, Anthony? I want some sex.
- [23:59]
Co-host / Interviewer
Now.
- [24:00]
Danny Vicrambel
Let's go to the room immediately. Let's get it on. Big brother thinks this has been a wonderful day, Anthony. Aye, the meeting of two hearts and minds. Oh, classic. You feel like I do, baby. This date went so well. He was so happy in this day. He's like, remember, he'd stripped down to his underpants. Oh, my God, he's hammered. Because, like, we'd left a bottle of wine in there. He's like, stripped down to his pants and, like. And I remember, like. And I'd kind of set up things in there that I kn. I had license to get away with the stuff that no other producer would be allowed to do. So it's like I'd intentionally put a couple of props under the table in the diary room when he was in. So he had to bend down to do stuff. So I'd get him to bend down to do something and I'd be like, while you're down there, mate. And I remember he left the diary room and he was like, oh, I've just had the best date ever. Big brother. Yeah, I was just allowed to do weird stuff with him. And then. And then a lot of those ideas we were coming up with, Endermel used it as a way of. Because they're very smart business people testing out mini formats. So there's a few ideas I came up with that I have made no money at all from doing this as my. Just my wages as a junior producer or whatever. But ideas that I came up with for challenges and games in there, it got turned into TV format. Like, I remember I was. I was an assistant producer and I had. And I was. I was always just meddling with the creative and just, like, sending over ideas, like, unsolicited ideas and all that stuff. And I had this idea for something and this is probably still the thing I'm the most proud of coming up with in my career. And this is like a long, long time ago. And I was like, all right, I've got this idea, sent it over to my bosses and I was like, right, imagine it, because the whole show is formatted around. You get voted out, there's a big live eviction show and you get kicked out the show. Oh, that's a big Friday night, big live show. And these shows were getting, like, back then, 7,8 million viewers live, which for a country with 60 million people living in it, that's everybody, you know, it's like massive.
- [26:10]
Co-host / Interviewer
Every house.
- [26:11]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah, in there. Big Friday night shows. I was. Got an idea. What if people were voting for them not to be evicted, but voting for them to be taken out and put in a secret house. And then in that house, they could see a stream of what was happening in the real house. So as soon as people left, everyone would go, I mean, I hated them anyway. Which now every reality show uses that mechanic. No one had done that then. No one had done it.
- [26:35]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah, no, that's. That's. There's. After the 90 day fiance has it.
- [26:39]
Danny Vicrambel
On every reunion show. Every reunion show.
- [26:41]
Co-host / Interviewer
And the housewives all have it.
- [26:43]
Danny Vicrambel
All done it. And this had never been done in a reality show before. And I was like, you take them out, put them in a little house, and they just watch the telly. And what they're watching is everyone telling them what they really think about them. And my bosses were like, whoa, whoa, what? No one could get their head around it. And I'm like, they're watching, like, effectively the show. That's it all. And then I sent this idea, didn't hear anything back. A few weeks later, my boss takes me out and was like, can I have a cover word? Takes me out to walk me into the. Into the car park, parking lot. And I'm like, have I done something? I'm gonna get fired here. And he goes, remember that idea you told us a while back? And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And he went, yeah, we've built a secret house. Oh, my God. He's like, nobody knows we've built a secret house. We're gonna do it. I've given you a bonus this month. There's extra money going to your bank. Like, got a little. Got a little bonus for doing it. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, thanks for that. Yeah, we're doing it. And they did it. And it ended up just being like the most explosive driver of story that ever happened. These two girls got evicted, go into a house, watch these people, like, slagging them off, telling them the truth. They ended up keeping them in this. They were meant to be in there for, like, two days. They kept them in there for like a week or a week and a half because the content they were getting was just so insanely good. And then they put them back into the house live after they'd found out.
- [28:04]
Co-host / Interviewer
Everything people were saying.
- [28:05]
Danny Vicrambel
Them going back into the house live caused this thing that is still known as fight Night on Big Brother where the whole house went berserk and fought each other and the police ended up being called and coming in the house and the show got pulled off her. I remember at that point watching it and I was like, we have just killed the show. We're gonna like, this is it. This is the end. We are watching the end. No coming back from this. Actually, what happened is it became the most talked about biggest news story in the country that week. Joe did amazingly well. Like, it still goes down in history, is one of the most insane nights on television ever. But that was like, all because of that secret house. Watching the footage going in and that now is like, that's the basis of making reality shows. So it's a Love Island. Love island actually existed years ago as a show called Celebrity Love island that was made in the uk.
- [29:05]
Co-host / Interviewer
Okay.
- [29:05]
Danny Vicrambel
And that only lasted one season. And it was good. It was like a load of celebrities on an island. It was a bit slightly different to the format now, but kind of the same show. Then years later, it came back as Love island, reformatted as Love island. And that's the Love island that we know now.
- [29:20]
Co-host / Interviewer
Right.
- [29:20]
Danny Vicrambel
So effectively, the show I worked on was the first Love. It wasn't the celebrity one, but it was the first Love island as we know it. So I got a call from. This will probably give you an idea of, like, the type of shows I'd worked on. I got a call from the woman who was in charge of that bit of ITV who were making the show, and she was like, danny, everything you make is a fucking car crash. So I've got a challenge for you. I've spent all of my budget on this new show and I'm scared it's going to be boring. Can you just crash it into a wall for me? Can you just crash this show into a wall? She's like, if this isn't in the news every day, we failed. You're trashy. You do all that stuff. Just smack the show into a wall. And I was like, bit offended, but I get what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, there was a really amazing team of people on it kind of making it anyway. It's very much their show, not my show. They developed this show.
- [30:10]
Co-host / Interviewer
That's impressive that you had already had that reputation.
- [30:12]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah.
- [30:12]
Co-host / Interviewer
Like, I was like. They were like, we got. We know.
- [30:15]
Danny Vicrambel
I was the one for Big Brother from Fight Night. I'm like, if you've seen a reality show where a local of people go into a house and either have sex with her or Have a fight or both. I was probably responsible for, like, something on that show. But yeah. And they were just like crashing the water. My job was like, I came in as the sort of. The sort of fly in the ointment, the sort of grit in the machine.
- [30:35]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [30:35]
Danny Vicrambel
Of just trashing it up a little bit, which was a pretty fun job to have where you could just like there were other people who were doing the hard work and it was like their show. Do you know what I mean? And they'd come up with the format. Like, my job was just like, you're suggesting some weird things.
- [30:47]
Co-host / Interviewer
And I think, like, you're zhuzzing it up.
- [30:49]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah. And I think. And I think. I think that friction between me and them was a really important part of that series becoming the series. Up came. Yeah, that I think, like, you know, and this is not a criticism of people working on it at all. Some of the ways they want to do it was like a bit straighter than some of the shows I'd done. The shows I did were a lot more. You meddle with people, you're twisting it. It's action packed.
- [31:10]
Co-host / Interviewer
Well, you were experimenting at that time too, prior to this. Right. Like, you were coming up with weird stuff that who knew what was gonna stick? You were just throwing stuff out. Right. And then a bunch of it ended up sticking and it was weird.
- [31:22]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah. There's a lot of criticism thrown at reality shows that's like, you're really exploiting people and making them do humiliating things. And there obviously is some truth to that, especially, you know, on some shows. But a thing I have always been very conscious of, and this is my argument back on these things always is it's like, those people want to be on television. And a thing that no one kind of. That people don't talk about enough now is like, they're coming to you as a producer asking for a storyline. Say you're in Love island or say you're in one of these shows in.
- [31:55]
Co-host / Interviewer
There and they're like, what should I do?
- [31:56]
Danny Vicrambel
They come up to you and they're like, am I making the edit? Am I making the edit? Like, they don't want me to leave them alone, to be boring, to not make it into the show. And then they've given up six months of their life and achieve nothing.
- [32:08]
Co-host / Interviewer
So when they say to you, am I making the edit? What should I do? What do you say?
- [32:12]
Danny Vicrambel
I think it's like, different shows, different rules, different shows, different things. But I'm like, on some of the trashier shows, I'VE worked on and stuff. You're just like, now you need to ramp it up a bit. You need to like. I know that you don't like him. Stop saying it behind his back. Say it to his face. I know that. Da, da, da, da, da, da. Like, they want to be in the show. Like, the worst thing for them would be that give up their job, do this show, come out, sit with their friends and family to watch it, and they're not in the edit.
- [32:37]
Co-host / Interviewer
Right.
- [32:37]
Danny Vicrambel
That is the worst thing that could happen.
- [32:40]
Co-host / Interviewer
Right.
- [32:40]
Danny Vicrambel
You kind of go like, what they want is the guidance on making a really good show that's gonna be watched.
- [32:46]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [32:46]
Danny Vicrambel
So I think a lot of your job as a producer is like, it's creating that show. And I think it's like helping them be good on the television. Yeah. Like fundamentally.
- [32:55]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah. Cause they're not actors, they're just attention seekers and they need to be directed just like actors who are attention seekers.
- [33:01]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah. And it's all just like, you know, most overused word ever told a storytelling, isn't it? Everything's just like.
- [33:06]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [33:07]
Danny Vicrambel
It's just helping them tell a story that's going to work in the format that they're in. The show that they're in on camera.
- [33:12]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [33:25]
Danny Vicrambel
In the peak of me working on Big Brother and at this point, Big Brother being like the biggest TV format in the world. So, like, so big. This is the way. This is one way the industry has changed a lot. It used to be back then, pre streamers, if you came up with a good idea for a format for a TV show, it would then get made in loads of countries all over the world. Every country has their own version of that show. Right. So there's a point where Big Brother was being made in like 40 countries at once. It's very much a time of show's big. It gets made in loads of countries. So Big Brother at this point, probably the biggest TV format in the world at that time, getting made in dozens of countries all over the world. Endomala producing all of these shows and they held this thing where it was like, I have to think, yeah, this genuinely did happen. I didn't just imagine this happening. They held this like conference once a year in different parts of the world every year. And they'd fly in all the kind of like top level creatives from that country's Big Brother and they would meet in this kind of conference thing. It's like the un all these people from all over us, two or three people from each country. And you'd sit and have this conference around a massive roundtable, literally, like the UN looks like. And everyone would just talk about what had happened on their Big Brother that year. So you'd learn from each other's people doing it. And it was like, in one year, they asked me to do it, and I was quite surprised. I was like, I was too junior, theoretically do it, but I was massively involved in the creative. So we flew in for this conference. And even the people you're meeting are weird as fuck. Like, these producers from all over the world that on its own is like, this is a reality show. You know what I mean? Like, these people are getting flown in. So, like, we're all in, going for day one to this conference, and we're sat around the table and it's like, one at a time. Everyone goes, okay, yeah. So I'm from the uk. Our big theme this year was Big Brother being evil. And then this happened. And then this happened. And the figures were like this. And da, da, da, da. And some of the stuff stories these people had. I'm like, what did he just say? What did he. What did he just say? And as I'm saying this, right, this is. This is probably why my career is not where it should be. I shouldn't be saying any of this, but, like, go around. And I remember. I remember, like, one country. I'm not going to say which country it was. Maybe that protects me slightly. Was like. But I'll probably do a probably offensive accent of the guy that was, like, doing it. So he's like, in our Big Brother this year, the twist is we put in this woman and she's a gypsy, and everyone hates her. Not just because she gypsy, because she really annoying. Like, what did he just say? And it's like, so they all hate the gypsy. Yeah. And then it goes to the next one, and the guy from Belgium is like, yeah, yeah, really successful show this year. Like, figures are up. Whatever. At the beginning, though, I mean, what we did for casting this year is we did the casting tour, picked the people we were gonna be in, didn't tell them if they'd made it in the show or not. Then we just, like, sent a van around to where they worked, to their house, and some masked men just kidnapped them, threw them in the van and, like, took them to the show. But obviously when we did that, people saw that happening and phoned the police. And then, like, armed police turned up and surrounded the van. And you saw going. And no one thought this was a risk of this happening. And you're like, okay. Then the Australian guy was like, oh, my God. Yeah, God. Disaster. Disaster this year. Yeah, disaster. I mean, viewing figures are really good, you know, until the incident.
- [36:58]
Co-host / Interviewer
What incident?
- [36:59]
Danny Vicrambel
And I'm like, okay. And he goes, basically what happened on the show is having a good year, good cast. Everyone's just like, you know, messing around, locking around, having fun. There are these people in there, they're all friends. Like, I think. I think two of them were kind of a couple, like, destroying this girl. This is usual reality show stuff or whatever. And the messing around got a bit out of hand. And one of these, this guy sort of held this girl down, but in a laughing around the pool way, like joking around the pool way. And then the other guy balanced his balls on her head.
- [37:35]
Co-host / Interviewer
No, no.
- [37:37]
Danny Vicrambel
Teabagged her.
- [37:39]
Co-host / Interviewer
On television.
- [37:40]
Danny Vicrambel
On television. And it's like they're sort of laughing about it, but then, you know, like.
- [37:46]
Co-host / Interviewer
However it plays out, everyone gets sued.
- [37:48]
Danny Vicrambel
However it plays out, it plays out. But it's obviously not good, right? It's not good. It's just playing out. And then like, and I'm probably getting the details of this wrong, it was a long time ago, but like, the show, I think the season continued. But after the season, the show got literally referenced up to parliament level in Australia and then taken off the air for a year or two.
- [38:10]
Co-host / Interviewer
While they figured out how to get it.
- [38:11]
Danny Vicrambel
Yeah, while they worked out what was going on. Yeah. There are massive teams now, welfare teams, care teams, whose job is to look after these people who are going to these shows before, during, and after the show. And obviously that's a really good thing that those care teams exist.
- [38:35]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah. You're standing on the beach when you notice something strange. The horizon doesn't look right at first. All you can see is a thin white line. Then the line starts to rise. You realize it's not the horizon at all. It's a 30 foot tall wall of water and it's racing straight toward you. What would you do on the day after Christmas? In 2004, a 9.1 magnitude earthquake hit off the coast of Indonesia, triggering a devastating tsunami. It struck Thailand without warning. No alarms, no cell phone alerts, no evacuation. In this season of against the Odds, experience one of the deadliest natural disasters in history through the perspectives of those who did everything they could to survive. Follow against the Odds on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of against the Tsunami in Thailand early and ad free right now on Wondery.
- [39:25]
Commercial Announcer 1
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- [39:55]
Commercial Announcer 2
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- [39:57]
Podcast Host
Can I make my site softer?
- [39:58]
Danny Vicrambel
Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
- [40:02]
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- [40:25]
Danny Vicrambel
TWAS a cold winter's night and without any heat. I wore Bomba socks so they'd warm up my feet. Yay. My feet cried. These socks are the best. So cushy and warm I can finally rest. But don't rest, I said. There's more if you please. Bombas also makes underwear, slippers and tees and for each thing you purchase they donate one new to someone who needs it. So they're cozy too. Everybody deserves to feel good all the time. So gift Bombas this season. That's the end of this rhyme. Go to bombas.comaudio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. I think that's been a massive shift in the way shows work from when I worked on them to now. And this is a really big shift is when I was doing those shows, people applied to be on them. They would apply and when we were doing it we would do like on Big Brother. We would do open real life auditions. People would come and stand in a line for seven hours and like an hour job. Back then Jesus was telling them constantly they probably shouldn't do this. Here's all the things that'll happen. Like it's a bad idea to do. There's a big thing called a talk of doom. We do with them of like we were very open about like what they're getting into to do these shows. But they'd all applied. They'd come to us, they wanted to do these shows. Now there's teams of people finding people. To some of those people. Yeah, it's absolutely. They want to be on these shows. They're doing it. They're like, part of their game plan. They're like, you know, you build social followers, then you get put on Love island, then you get a brand deal, then you, like, boom. But others, you're like, now they're getting, like, hit up by producers repeatedly, just being asked and asked and asked and asked and asked and convinced to go on these shows. And that's the area for me where I'm a bit like, what feels different to you? It's like if you're being asked multiple times to go on a show and saying no, and then on the seventh time, you say yes. I've got a bit of an issue with that.
- [42:19]
Co-host / Interviewer
Why?
- [42:20]
Danny Vicrambel
Because it's just like, they've said they don't want to do it six times. Maybe take the hint they don't want to do it.
- [42:25]
Co-host / Interviewer
Like, what does that lead to? So say. They say yes on the seventh time.
- [42:29]
Danny Vicrambel
What.
- [42:29]
Co-host / Interviewer
What does that. Does it. Is it an integrity thing? Like, what is it?
- [42:32]
Danny Vicrambel
No, I think it's just more like if. If for whatever reason and their gut is they don't want to do that show, maybe they don't want to do that show, and maybe it's not right for them to do that show.
- [42:39]
Co-host / Interviewer
Right.
- [42:40]
Danny Vicrambel
I'm really glad that I did work on them. I'm really glad I caught that experience working on them. At that time, they were like. They were pop culture. They were driving the culture. They were, like, front page of news every day. They were creating these people, turning them into stars for the first time. Really big thing that I'm actually really genuinely proud of, of that time is when we were doing Big Brother, particularly, we were casting types of people who you did not see on television at all.
- [43:05]
Co-host / Interviewer
Okay.
- [43:06]
Danny Vicrambel
And putting them on a massive TV show being watched by millions of people. So we had the first black winner of reality show, the first gay winner, the first transgender winner of a show. And, like. And these are people who, like, from communities that were not represented on television.
- [43:19]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [43:19]
Danny Vicrambel
At the time Nadia, this transgender woman, won our series in the Big Brother, there weren't trans people on tv. There wasn't trans representation on tv. We put this woman in. Everyone loved her. She won the show. And, like, those things make a difference to culture.
- [43:32]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [43:32]
Danny Vicrambel
Like, when we had the first black winner. That makes a difference.
- [43:35]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [43:35]
Danny Vicrambel
Do you mean like, so actually like in the casting of those shows and I'm like, and my background is I'm half Indian, half English. My background's Indian. I still think South Asian people are massively underrepresented on those shows. If I was making those shows now, there was absolutely no way I'd be sat in a room that didn't have South Asian representation in it. They do. So I think those shows back then particularly were really good actually. Just putting like giving, you know, giving you airtime with people that you wouldn't know.
- [44:00]
Co-host / Interviewer
That's also how reality, like what was MTV's show?
- [44:05]
Danny Vicrambel
The real World.
- [44:05]
Co-host / Interviewer
The Real World did the same thing here, you know, where you had people who were like HIV positive and young and old and professional and not professional. And you know the thing about that.
- [44:15]
Danny Vicrambel
Period of shows like the Real World and Big Brother back then you cast them for conflict. So you're like, oh, here's the fundamentalist Christian who hates gays. Here's the gay. Ugh, great. Do you cast them for conflict? But what you actually saw then was real world conversations about these issues that often you saw people changing their opinion. Do you mean. So now it's like, so back then you go, you know the person who's like homophobic, you'd never met someone gay.
- [44:40]
Co-host / Interviewer
Before and now they're best friends.
- [44:41]
Danny Vicrambel
So you'd be living with them and after they'd end up being best friends and you'd see it play out.
- [44:45]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [44:45]
Danny Vicrambel
And you were like, that's a really positive storyline. But now you couldn't have that first bit of the story that would be me going, I don't want to be around them or whatever. Do you mean like you couldn't have that bit of the story play out.
- [44:54]
Co-host / Interviewer
Because you have to edit.
- [44:56]
Danny Vicrambel
They'd be kicked out for having that opinion.
- [44:58]
Co-host / Interviewer
Oh, I see.
- [44:59]
Danny Vicrambel
You don't get to see these real world change of opinion.
- [45:02]
Co-host / Interviewer
I see.
- [45:02]
Danny Vicrambel
And I, and I found back then watching those change of opinions really enlightening.
- [45:07]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah, yeah. A.
- [45:08]
Danny Vicrambel
It was a window into what people really thought. So you get a good temperature check on the country. Good and bad. Do you mean of just seeing people really saying what they're thinking and not self producing themselves? And then often you saw these stories where it would play out and actually like people who, you know, you'd think would hate each other end up being really close and getting on really well.
- [45:26]
Co-host / Interviewer
And the idea now, I mean, it's so transparent now that you watch the People like, it's as if I'm watching someone watch themselves on tv. Like they're aware that they're on TV all the time. And so it's really hard to know if someone's ever being genuine, you know, like they want more. Like you said, when someone comes up and is like, am I gonna make the cut? Am I gonna make the cut? It feels like literally the entire world is trying to make the cut now with TikTok and stuff going on, it's.
- [45:55]
Danny Vicrambel
Like, we should stop calling them reality shows because they're not real. They're something else.
- [45:59]
Co-host / Interviewer
What else do you want to talk about? Anything.
- [46:01]
Danny Vicrambel
Thing I would say to you is right. And you know this.
- [46:03]
Co-host / Interviewer
Yeah.
- [46:04]
Danny Vicrambel
It's sort of insane that this isn't on video because to get traction now, you're going to get traction through a video clip, not an audio clip.
- [46:12]
Co-host / Interviewer
Come again?
- [46:14]
Danny Vicrambel
Like, like, like. Like you're a producer. You know, this is the truth. This needs to be on video because, like.
- [46:21]
Co-host / Interviewer
But I don't want to be on video.
- [46:23]
Danny Vicrambel
But it's like, but it's like now the only way things get picked up and get traction is through video clips on social. That is like whether we like it or not. That is the way. Promo. That is promo.
- [46:32]
Co-host / Interviewer
I don't want to. I want to just go to work.
- [46:34]
Danny Vicrambel
Why don't you wear like a helmet like Deadmau 5?
- [46:40]
Co-host / Interviewer
Put a paper bag over my head.
- [46:42]
Danny Vicrambel
Bag lady. Call yourself bag lady and put a paper bag on your head. There you go. Everyone's a winner. Shut up.
- [47:00]
Co-host / Interviewer
The dream is a production of little Everywhere. You can email us at hellotle everywhere and get ad free versions of this show@thedream.supercast.com.
- [47:26]
Commercial Announcer 1
This holiday Verizon is helping you bundle up incredible gifts and savings. You'll get the latest phone with a new line on my plan and a brand new smartwatch and tablet. No trade in needed even on our lowest price plan. That's two gifts for your family and one for you or two for you and one for someone else or three gifts for you and only you. Either way, you save big on three amazing gifts at Verizon. All on the best 5G network. Visit Verizon today. Rankings based on rootmetric truth score report dated 1 each 2025. Your results may vary. Service plan required for watch and tablet. Additional terms apply.
- [47:56]
Commercial Announcer 2
Why choose a sleep number? Smart bed.
- [47:57]
Podcast Host
Can I make my site softer?
- [47:59]
Danny Vicrambel
Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
- [48:02]
Commercial Announcer 2
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- [48:26]
Co-host / Interviewer
If you're a smoker or vaper ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zyn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zynn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus Zynn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zyn. Check out zyn.com find to find Zyn at a store near you. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Hey dream listeners. It's finally here. The Dream plus where you can get every single episode of our show with no ads. It's $5 a month. It's the only tier. No commercials plus bonus content. This helps keep us independent, and your contribution will help change the way every listener hears the dream. We'll be able to take out the ads that we don't even know are getting put into this show, which is annoying to both you and us. We're also going to have an amazing discussion board. The interface has it cataloged under ama. Ask me anything, but I don't love rules. So what I did is started a bunch of threads like Ask Dan and I Questions, General Chitchat, just to make friends and stuff. And every time I've been in charge of a discussion board, I've made a tab called Women Be Shoppin and it's there. And we're just gonna talk about what we bought and It'll be fun. That's the dream.coms u p e r C-A-S t.com super cast please, please go subscribe. It's five bucks. It's less than a latte if you live in Los Angeles. See you there.